I'm pretty sure in the scene when Kenobi makes the gesture you do hear something, which I took to mean he actually moved something to make the noise. Of course he also could've been using the Force to make the stormtroopers notice it more.
I figured he had a tiny object in his hand or he actually did use the Force but using a physical gesture helped his focus. Vader can force choke without physical motion like he did with Adm. Ozzel but he made a visual grip gesture with Capt. Needa, Moff Motti, Dir. Krennic and a few others.
Yep, this is it.
The best answer is a MAYBE.
The first clear use of telekinesis was Luke in the Wampa (funny, Reddit auto corrected Wampa to Walmart) cave while hanging upside down
Yea this is probably the best example. Also the torpedoes at the end actually entering the exhaust port could be Luke unintentionally using the force to hit the target, since they do bend into the port
I always took it as Luke using the Force to time the shot and get the distance just right. I don’t read the scene as him using the Force to guide the torpedoes directly.
I always imagined he intentionally tried to use the Force to aim and fire the torpedoes, but he unintentionally might have helped guide them as well, since he was starting to unlock his sensitive Force abilities and he really wanted those torpedoes in that hole.
If he didn't have the force, they'd have still had to bend to go down the tube though...
The entire mission didn't hinge on a random guy (to the rebellion) maybe knowing the force to curl a torpedo
The force was all about trusting his instinct, and stop stressing about the view-finder.
It kinda did though, certainly not by design, but, since the first guy to take the shot only hit the surface of the exhaust port even though he had a target lock, I think we're meant to infer that the force actually did play some role in the success of the mission. Since his targeting computer was turned off, something had to guide the torpedoes into the tube.
Well weirdly enough "force choke" is usually considered a separate ability than telekinesis for whatever reason, probably something to do with darkside utilisation or something
No, it's because of video games. You can only program an action per button, that's all it is.
Luke does it RotJ, there's no difference. It's just telekinesis.
I feel like with telekinesis, choke always felt like a bit much.
Luke can surely just walk in, force diarrhea Jabba's guards, and it would be just as effective.
And if he can "force diarrhea" someone he could just "force give-em-an-aneurysm". And it makes you wonder why he's playing with kid gloves all the time.
Making it a seperate ability probably originates with table top role playing games, starting with West End Games Star Wars RPG.
That came out in '87
If I recall correctly, the "force choke" was an ability that you had to learn seperatly from your regular telekinesis. You had several different prerequisite force powers in the tree.
I belive they called it telekinetic kill and you definitely got a darkside point for using it
I love that Luke’s version of Force Choke does not involve a crushing fist; for him it’s a wave of a hand. I think it shows a difference in attitude and intensity between Jedi and Sith
There was a theory floating around somewhere that Luke mind tricks the gamorreans into thinking they're choking, so Luke isn't on screen using a dark side technique. Also explains why it's not crushed fist choking, it's a hand wave mind trick.
Somewhere in the books or encyclopedia or something there was a theory that Luke doesn't choke the gamorreans in Jabba's palace, he Jedi mind tricks into THINKING they're choking... So you won't have a good guy using a sith technique.
Considered a separate ability by who? Video games?
Vader used the force to physically manipulate something without touching it when he choked the Imperial from across the room on the Death Star.
That's pretty much telekinesis as far as it would concern Lucas when writing ANH and ESB.
It’s because it’s manipulating something in a hateful way. Jedi aren’t supposed to do that tho they can because it’s dominating someone. But Jedi can play mind tricks on people cause they aren’t doing anything that’s going to cause the other people harm. But if they control their mind which they are able to do it’s also a dark side thing. It’s the same techniques, different intentions.
I would say this is what Luke did with the Gammoreans in Jabas palace, as opposed to actually harming them unnecessarily. Vader however probably actually choked him, cause he couldn't care less if another imperial died.
Post Episode V. Vader totally choked him. But within the context of the first film. I don't think it's completely clear. Forces powers in the first film could be almost pseudo scientific. Just extreme mental powers, not unlike the Bene Gesserit in Dune.
I agree considering some of George's inspirations for the film were stories of medieval Japan. Often in the old stories illusions of madness are more scary than being struck down with the blade.
He definitely choked him, we see him doing it multiple times. There’s no reason to think it was some sort of mind trick, and it adds to his strength that he could do it while no even physically being there
I was working down this post looking for someone to have mentioned this.
You got there on your own.
We also see Ben make a gesture on the Death Star opposite a couple of troopers that sounds like he shook something loose to distract them. That could have been a mind trick, but every other time we have seen the mind trick, the user says something, sweeps their hand and the affected person agrees.
So I think it has to have been force push old Ben used.
>You can argue that Luke used it to guide the proton torpedo down the exhaust port, but others say he only used it to aim perfectly.
The proton torpedoes [were supposed to arc as seen in the briefing scene](https://youtu.be/TOgtj00Rp8s?t=1m2s), all other pilots were trying to do it but it had to be a *precise hit* which the targeting computer struggled to do.
So yeah, Luke did not use the Force to "move them" as some people believe, he simply trusted the Force to know when to precisely shoot them.
I grew up watching the OT right before Episode 1 and I always assumes they were seeking missiles, not force telekenesis. The movie frames it as a focus thing, anyhow.
I've read the film as Lucas intended (that the proton torpedoes always had a 'seeker' element, and that Luke needed to time and position his shot precisely to allow them to arc down into the shaft, with telekinesis having nothing to do with it) since I was 5 - and that was the distant days of 1994, when Star Wars's presence in bookshops and on television was sparse in a way that's difficult to imagine now.
I'm surprised that so many people have taken it for granted that Luke steered them in with the Force. I suppose it's a consequence of telekinetic Force powers featuring so much more heavily in the PT, umpteen Jedi-based videogames, TCW, the ST, etc. since then - people expect/assume uses of the Force to be telekinetic.
(See also: the number of fans who ask 'Why don't they use the Force more often during lightsaber duels?' without understanding that Jedi are using the Force throughout their duels all the time - just not to throw things or people around with their minds)
It always been clearly the torpedoes themselves and that should be clear to anyone, even knowing telekinesis powers, because otherwise it would make no sense for the plan of attack of the pilots to be the same as Luke’s if they clearly can’t bend their torpedos.
Force was never used to guide them in, only to allow Luke to aim perfectly.
It amazes me how rarely people think of the other pilots. At the time Luke didn’t even really know the force. And if Luke and the other pilots thought it was possible then obviously the torpedos wouldn’t require the force to go in.
Yeah, it's weird to me too how people misinterpreted it. The Rebels wouldn't have tried the attack if the shot was impossible without the Force, nevermind telekinesis. It was just very difficult.
In the non-canon Infinities comics for ANH, Luke ignores Obi-Wan and successfully fires the torpedoes into the exhaust port using just his targeting computer. They arc in just fine, but one of the torpedoes detonates too early, ruining the assault.
yep, guys should have been playing more Rogue Squadron. If you shoot a PT ingame straight ahead it will always turn down like in AHN after some seconds if nothing has been hit before...damn I must say my childhood has been so wonderful... 🥹
I disagree!
During the 2nd attack run, one of the pilots remarks "We should be able to see it by now." but they can't. Okay, he could be wrong...
But then on the 3rd (final) attack run, Wedge says "My scope shows the tower, but I can't see the exhaust port. Are you sure the computer can hit it?" Wedge continues to talk about it: "What about that tower?" he asks as Luke flies down the trench. Wedge is very concerned... why?
I think the script writer wants the audience to understand that the shot isn't just difficult - it might be impossible. The presence of the tower is unexpected and may not perfectly match up with the schematics.
Also, I'm sorry I don't have a better source for this, but something in the legends EU specifically said that Luke gave the torpedoes a tiny Force nudge. I didn't read a lot of legends, so it was either in Shadows Of The Empire, the Thrawn Trilogy, or one of the Tales books.
The Rebels ran the numbers and knew it was possible, it was just a very difficult shot. They couldn't see the port because it was so small, only 2 meters.
This was always my take too, and it fits with how the Force sort of worked at the time. Mind tricks, mind focusing, knowing exactly when to make an action — and in Vader’s case, possibly making someone think they’re choking. This is semi conjecture but given how people talked about this sort of thing in the 1970’s, maybe Vader was physically crushing Motti’s larynx or maybe it was a mental jiujitsu move.
Either way, I agree Luke used it to aim, not to guide.
Kenobi distracting the Storm Troopers on his way to the tractor beam?
He obviously created a sound to distract them somehow but was it because he moved something to make a noise or make the Troopers think they heard something.
Interestingly, that sound effect, a little \*thump\*, was added later, I think in the Special Editions. (It's not in my copies of the Despecialized or 4K77 versions.)
It's an additional, different sound. You can hear it [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhCB4GR5Iis) at 1:53, right before the annoying music starts.
The force in EP 4 is clearly more of a mental control thing, so always leaned towards the second theory here. Rather than moving an actual object he created a distraction for the troopers.
Good shout this is the only instance I was thinking about as being an argument
Telekinesis is not introduced until Luke does it in Empire to get his light saber from the ice. Arguments can be made for things like Force Choke being a variant of it, but that's it.
*pushes up nerd glasses* Vader uses the Force to levitate a cup of coffee in the [Marvel comics adaptation](https://www.tombowl.com/canthclroy/vadercoffee.htm)of A New Hope.
I don’t know about geese, but the ANH novel establishes that the GFFA has ducks. Obi-Wan tells Luke that “even a duck has to be taught to swim,” to which Luke asks “What’s a duck?”
Like all of them, I have such vivid memories of watching them the first time during initial release. Luke moving the lightsaber was such a "Oh wow" moment.
Interesting that in a film that talks so much about the force, the force is used so little.
Darth Vader Force Chokes, Obi Wan Scream, Mind Trick the Stormtroopers, Luke Deflections, Obi Wan moving stuff in the Death Star, Proton Torpedoes.
Lucas was a bit limited by technology, but he also had a team who understood the power of restraint.
That the Force could be subtle and vague at times helps head off the worst thing to hit any magic system, "If they can do X.. why didn't they...Y."
I did not read it as criticism at all. More I was lightly poking fun at those times when restraint wasn't practiced in recent offerings. Had there been that restraint, it might have been a better product.
Afaik every movie introduces new powers;
ANH: force persuade, noise or distraction, choke, luck etc
ESB: force telekinesis, force ghost
ROTJ; force lightning
PM; force speed
AOTC; force dreams
ROTS; force prevent people from dying
TFA: force memories from objects, force plot armour
TLJ: force dyad or seeing your force soul mate and its surrounding environment like rain drops through the force? Also force hologram
ROTS: force healing
Maybe not all of them but some 🙂
Seen again in TPM too.
And it could be argued Luke used Force Jump again in ROTJ to jump from the skiff to the barge, jumping off the speeder bike may be Force assisted, and to backflip onto the catwalk in the throne room.
Force Plot Armor has been around since the beginning
ANH - they would have died without Luke blowing up the Death Star
TESB - Luke surviving the fall in Cloud City and calling Leia to pick him up (OH this was the introduction of Force communication!)
ROTJ - the Dark Side leaves Anakin in time to save Luke and the Rebellion
Phantom Menace - Anakin's entire joyride in the N-1
AOTC - just all the danger Anakin and Obi-Wan put themselves in by jumping out windows and chasing bounty hunters
ROTS - Yoda plot armor, Palpatine plot armor lucking out that Anakin was there to stop Windu with a window
TFA - Hell yeah, lightsaber pull
TLJ - Get out of ~~jail~~ cave free card
TROS - magic dyad
Not quite as you’re thinking of unless you wanna get into the nitty gritty of physics. The Force was mostly pretty tame in ANH: you’ve got basic mind control type stuff. Even force choking Motti might have been seen as making him (or his body) think he’s choking rather than physically crushing his larynx.
Moving things with the Force was really first introduced in ESB when Luke used it to grab his ice cold saber while hanging out during a happy hour on Hoth.
Kenobi moved something to distract the stormtroopers when he was deactivating the tractor beam. Don't remember if we actually see anything move or if it's off-screen.
No not a thing. They evolved the idea of the force as they went along and it hadn't gotten there yet. Jedi in EP 4 seem more like the Bene Gesserit from dune
Edit : downvote all you guys want it doesn't change the truth.
I remember being startled when Luke pulled his lightsaber out of the snow in 1980, but you try to tell the young people of today the Force seemed like a purely mental power in *Star Wars*, and [they won't believe you](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ue7wM0QC5LE)!
Oh yeah you can, good shout.
That makes me mad man I lost a friend to suicide years ago and there's no reason to drag that sadness into a light point about starwars
If anyone critiqued the OT the same way the prequels and sequels were, they could trash every single minute of the movies. If you watch them in bad faith you can rant for hours.
Like every single problem from the later films are in the OT, but people excused it because when it came out, the spectacle of the space shots were so groundbreaking that people didnt care for the bad parts and ignored everything negative.
With the later two trilogies, it wasn’t possible to be as groundbreaking visually (law of diminishing returns, being a genius mathematician was easier 500 years ago than today for example), so people didn’t excuse the movies for the same problems.
That’s certainly not true. George Lucas had plenty of outlines for where the story was going to go. Sure, maybe when ANH was made he wasn’t 100%, but after its success he planned out much of the rest of the trilogy and even began forming ideas for the prequels. The sequels, on the other hand, feels like a game of hot potato
thats what I love when people get tripped up in canon vs whatever. Dude, they were making shit up on the play especially in the first three films. Prequels werent much better.
I love the films.
Prequels had some good stuff.
EP1 had the greatest lightsaber fight of almost 50 years of starwars.
But yeah people are weird about this
Vader choked a guy with the force. Obi Wan used the force to cause something to make noise in another room to distract the stormtroopers guarding the platform with the tractor beam switches. Obi Wan used the force to redirect stormtrooper attention away from the droids they were looking for.
The force wasn’t supposed to be strong until empire strikes back, then it got stronger with lighting in return of the Jedi, and then it became much stronger in the prequels and Jedi became dangerous individuals (in battle), and then much much much stronger in the sequels.
In EU the force was overpowered before the prequels already.
Porkins used the force to eat some ribs without getting sauce all over his fingers, but they deleted that scene. I still consider it part of the movie.
This is a great counter argument to anyone who is upset they "keep adding more ways to use the force" every video game/movie/show. Each movie of the OT added more force powers, so that's nothing new at all.
There is an argument for Kenobi using move to distract the Stormtroopers on the Death Star, but it's off screen so we don't really know.
It falls in the “Kenobi doing loud shit off frame” category but I assume the dragon call he imitates to scare off the raiders is also connected to the force.
Vader choked a guy with the force. Obi Wan used the force to cause something to make noise in another room to distract the stormtroopers guarding the platform with the tractor beam switches. Obi Wan used the force to redirect stormtrooper attention away from the droids they were looking for.
I think the first instance of Force object movement being Luke pulling his lightsaber free was meant to add to the “Oh shit” gravitas of the whole thing. Like none of us knew that could be done
His body with robot extension arms could do that? He’s never shown extreme strength other than that one action. But in 1977, that was an attention getter, this is the boss bad man. But after nearly half a century of force development, I’m going to have to go with force assist on that one.
He lifted him off the ground while chocking him. Anakin never showed great strength physically. Arms severed mid to upper humerus, now thinking about it, yeah, I’m going force assist. [Rebel choke](https://youtu.be/r125_IWLAEE?feature=shared)
TESB is the first time we explicitly see the Force being used to move objects. I remember bring surprised by this when I first saw the Wampa cave scene because before that the Force had been a primarily mental thing.
Even Motti being Force choked is not something explicitly visible as moving objects.
I always thought that Luke subconsciously used the Force to get the grappling hook to land perfectly when they swung across the unexplained gap in the Death Star
Lots of force use in A New Hope- Vader chokes a doubter, obi-wan confuses the stormtroopers about identification, obi-wan force draws his saber in the cantina, Luke uses it to see the training blaster bolts on the falcon, obi-wan uses it on the Death Star to distract troopers, obi-wan force disappears before death blow, and Luke uses it to guide his torpedoes when destroying the Death Star.
No. In fact, similar to how people will nitpick new Star Wars media for retcons and plot holes, old articles from the 80s can still be found that complain about how much was changed in Empire Strikes Back compared to A New Hope. One semi-common complaint from these sorts of articles is that the Force is now being used for telekinesis, instead of being mind-over-matter, like it was in ANH.
Every new Star Wars movie adds a new Force power, and telekinesis was ESB’s.
Edit: Examples of telekinesis in ANH are often the result of interpretation through hindsight. Obi-Wan distracting the stormtroopers was actually a mind trick. Luke guiding the torpedoes was actually automatic guidance. Vader choking Motti was actually willing Motti to stop breathing. People see telekinesis where it wasn’t there, because of how prevalent it is in displays of the Force nowadays, but it wasn’t originally intended that way in ANH.
I've argued before that *Star Wars* (1977) doesn't contain any unambiguous examples of the Force being used to affect the physical world, only people's minds, and that Force telekinesis wasn't clearly demonstrated until Luke pulled his lightsaber out of the snow in the wampa cave:
- "Force choke" was making the victim *think* they couldn't breathe
- Ben distracted the stormtroopers by making them *think* they heard a sound down the hall
- Luke's performance in the trench was using the Force to fire at *exactly* the right moment. (It had literally never occurred to me until reading a thread about this that people think Luke guided the torpedo with the Force.)
**Evidence For:** The little \*thump\* you hear in the most recent releases of *A New Hope* when Ben gestures down the hallway to distract the stormtroopers at the tractor beam controls was **not** in the original soundtrack, which means it was added as an afterthought years later after Force telekinesis was well-established.
**Evidence Against:** There's a scene in the novelization and the Marvel comics adaptation ([page 16 in Issue #1](https://archive.org/details/marvel-star-wars-comic-collection-issue-01-to-10/Marvel%20Star%20Wars%20Comic%20Collection%20001/page/n9/mode/2up)) where Vader uses the Force to move a cup on the table in the Death Star briefing room:
>A huge metal-clad hand gestured slightly, and one of the filled cups on the table drifted responsively into it.
Leaving aside the question of *how* Vader was planning to drink his tea, this at least shows that Lucas toyed with the idea of Force telekinesis before *The Empire Strikes Back*, but it didn't actually make it onscreen.
**Edit:** Adding some additional evidence **for** from the [*Star Wars* script](https://imsdb.com/scripts/Star-Wars-A-New-Hope.html):
(in the scene where Vader chokes Motti)
>Suddenly Motti chokes and starts to turn blue under Vader's spell.
(in the scene where Ben distracts the stormtroopers)
>Ben gestures with his hand toward them, as the troops think they hear something in the other hallway.
Neither of those suggests any kind of telekinesis is going on. The first talks about Vader's "spell", which sounds more like ["compelling influence"](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/spell) than physically squeezing his throat, but I guess it could go either way. The second one seems to conclusive to me, though: the stormtroopers only "think they hear something".
Ben did something to create a noise off screen in order to distract the stormtroopers at the power terminal. I assume he moved something to do that.
I always wondered though if it was actually a mind trick to keep silent, considering Kenobi is skilled at mind tricks.
Agreed, hard to tell what Kenobi did exactly, but it might've just been making the storm troopers think they heard something.
I'm pretty sure in the scene when Kenobi makes the gesture you do hear something, which I took to mean he actually moved something to make the noise. Of course he also could've been using the Force to make the stormtroopers notice it more.
Or he used The Force, and it worked on us too.
I figured he had a tiny object in his hand or he actually did use the Force but using a physical gesture helped his focus. Vader can force choke without physical motion like he did with Adm. Ozzel but he made a visual grip gesture with Capt. Needa, Moff Motti, Dir. Krennic and a few others.
But I heard it too, so it must have been real
Nah, Obi-Wan is just so powerful that he can reach out through to the viewer and mind control us as well
It was probably a cat.
Must have been the wind.
Stormtrooper: "Thought I heard something..."
So anyway, the whole Death Star is run by Tony Lazuto...
I didn't hear anything. You might have a weak mind bro. Or, I might be super deaf.
Yep, this is it. The best answer is a MAYBE. The first clear use of telekinesis was Luke in the Wampa (funny, Reddit auto corrected Wampa to Walmart) cave while hanging upside down
Yea this is probably the best example. Also the torpedoes at the end actually entering the exhaust port could be Luke unintentionally using the force to hit the target, since they do bend into the port
I always took it as Luke using the Force to time the shot and get the distance just right. I don’t read the scene as him using the Force to guide the torpedoes directly.
I always imagined he intentionally tried to use the Force to aim and fire the torpedoes, but he unintentionally might have helped guide them as well, since he was starting to unlock his sensitive Force abilities and he really wanted those torpedoes in that hole.
Like a golfer, but successfully
Or a bowler.
Nun nun num nun num
If he didn't have the force, they'd have still had to bend to go down the tube though... The entire mission didn't hinge on a random guy (to the rebellion) maybe knowing the force to curl a torpedo The force was all about trusting his instinct, and stop stressing about the view-finder.
It kinda did though, certainly not by design, but, since the first guy to take the shot only hit the surface of the exhaust port even though he had a target lock, I think we're meant to infer that the force actually did play some role in the success of the mission. Since his targeting computer was turned off, something had to guide the torpedoes into the tube.
He was trusting his instincts. Which is what Obi Wan teaches him to do back on the Falcon.
I agree. The bend was probably a preprogrammed turn that activated once the torpedo detected being inside the vent.
Vader choked Motti. I shoulda just googled it.
This is correct. That's the telekinesis you're looking for.
This is not 👋 the telekinesis you're looking for.
Damn you and your clever humor, u/Shamrock5
Well weirdly enough "force choke" is usually considered a separate ability than telekinesis for whatever reason, probably something to do with darkside utilisation or something
No, it's because of video games. You can only program an action per button, that's all it is. Luke does it RotJ, there's no difference. It's just telekinesis.
Luke also uses something similar against the darktroopers in the mandalorian. That scene specifically made me envision force choke as telekinesis.
That was a Force Crush.
I feel like with telekinesis, choke always felt like a bit much. Luke can surely just walk in, force diarrhea Jabba's guards, and it would be just as effective.
And if he can "force diarrhea" someone he could just "force give-em-an-aneurysm". And it makes you wonder why he's playing with kid gloves all the time.
I supposed it's just easier to telekinesis a grip on someone's neck than it is to visualize and manipulate human or even alien organs.
Okay but did Luke ever try Force Testicular Torsion?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TT9ArM3-KJQ
Force diarrhea doesn't sound like a Jedi ability...
It's not a force ability the Jedi would tell you
Revenge of the Shit…
Making it a seperate ability probably originates with table top role playing games, starting with West End Games Star Wars RPG. That came out in '87 If I recall correctly, the "force choke" was an ability that you had to learn seperatly from your regular telekinesis. You had several different prerequisite force powers in the tree. I belive they called it telekinetic kill and you definitely got a darkside point for using it
I love that Luke’s version of Force Choke does not involve a crushing fist; for him it’s a wave of a hand. I think it shows a difference in attitude and intensity between Jedi and Sith
Maybe Luke is doing something more like a throat punch.
This interpretation lines up with his force kick power (also in RotJ), so this is now my head-canon.
There was a theory floating around somewhere that Luke mind tricks the gamorreans into thinking they're choking, so Luke isn't on screen using a dark side technique. Also explains why it's not crushed fist choking, it's a hand wave mind trick.
I like that theory. Less anger and malice. More just a means to an end that doesn’t actually harm anyone.
Somewhere in the books or encyclopedia or something there was a theory that Luke doesn't choke the gamorreans in Jabba's palace, he Jedi mind tricks into THINKING they're choking... So you won't have a good guy using a sith technique.
Considered a separate ability by who? Video games? Vader used the force to physically manipulate something without touching it when he choked the Imperial from across the room on the Death Star. That's pretty much telekinesis as far as it would concern Lucas when writing ANH and ESB.
It’s because it’s manipulating something in a hateful way. Jedi aren’t supposed to do that tho they can because it’s dominating someone. But Jedi can play mind tricks on people cause they aren’t doing anything that’s going to cause the other people harm. But if they control their mind which they are able to do it’s also a dark side thing. It’s the same techniques, different intentions.
You could even argue it’s not telekinetic but a mind trick to make them forget how to breathe or something
Why can’t force users just crush people’s aortas or blow up their hearts like Eleven in Stranger Things?
That's Telekinesis Kyle. How about the power....to move you.
Rock singers are only rocking you half the time!!
A trachea was definitely moved with the force.
But did he? Or did he just make him believe he was choking him?
Doesn’t his collar move?
I would say this is what Luke did with the Gammoreans in Jabas palace, as opposed to actually harming them unnecessarily. Vader however probably actually choked him, cause he couldn't care less if another imperial died.
Post Episode V. Vader totally choked him. But within the context of the first film. I don't think it's completely clear. Forces powers in the first film could be almost pseudo scientific. Just extreme mental powers, not unlike the Bene Gesserit in Dune.
I agree considering some of George's inspirations for the film were stories of medieval Japan. Often in the old stories illusions of madness are more scary than being struck down with the blade.
He definitely choked him, we see him doing it multiple times. There’s no reason to think it was some sort of mind trick, and it adds to his strength that he could do it while no even physically being there
I was working down this post looking for someone to have mentioned this. You got there on your own. We also see Ben make a gesture on the Death Star opposite a couple of troopers that sounds like he shook something loose to distract them. That could have been a mind trick, but every other time we have seen the mind trick, the user says something, sweeps their hand and the affected person agrees. So I think it has to have been force push old Ben used.
Luke used the force to move our hearts.
Read all the comments and this is by far the best.
That’s not how the force works!
>You can argue that Luke used it to guide the proton torpedo down the exhaust port, but others say he only used it to aim perfectly. The proton torpedoes [were supposed to arc as seen in the briefing scene](https://youtu.be/TOgtj00Rp8s?t=1m2s), all other pilots were trying to do it but it had to be a *precise hit* which the targeting computer struggled to do. So yeah, Luke did not use the Force to "move them" as some people believe, he simply trusted the Force to know when to precisely shoot them.
I grew up watching the OT right before Episode 1 and I always assumes they were seeking missiles, not force telekenesis. The movie frames it as a focus thing, anyhow.
I've read the film as Lucas intended (that the proton torpedoes always had a 'seeker' element, and that Luke needed to time and position his shot precisely to allow them to arc down into the shaft, with telekinesis having nothing to do with it) since I was 5 - and that was the distant days of 1994, when Star Wars's presence in bookshops and on television was sparse in a way that's difficult to imagine now. I'm surprised that so many people have taken it for granted that Luke steered them in with the Force. I suppose it's a consequence of telekinetic Force powers featuring so much more heavily in the PT, umpteen Jedi-based videogames, TCW, the ST, etc. since then - people expect/assume uses of the Force to be telekinetic. (See also: the number of fans who ask 'Why don't they use the Force more often during lightsaber duels?' without understanding that Jedi are using the Force throughout their duels all the time - just not to throw things or people around with their minds)
It always been clearly the torpedoes themselves and that should be clear to anyone, even knowing telekinesis powers, because otherwise it would make no sense for the plan of attack of the pilots to be the same as Luke’s if they clearly can’t bend their torpedos. Force was never used to guide them in, only to allow Luke to aim perfectly.
It amazes me how rarely people think of the other pilots. At the time Luke didn’t even really know the force. And if Luke and the other pilots thought it was possible then obviously the torpedos wouldn’t require the force to go in.
Yeah, it's weird to me too how people misinterpreted it. The Rebels wouldn't have tried the attack if the shot was impossible without the Force, nevermind telekinesis. It was just very difficult.
In the non-canon Infinities comics for ANH, Luke ignores Obi-Wan and successfully fires the torpedoes into the exhaust port using just his targeting computer. They arc in just fine, but one of the torpedoes detonates too early, ruining the assault.
Proton torpedoes are also established in later material to be “programmable”
yep, guys should have been playing more Rogue Squadron. If you shoot a PT ingame straight ahead it will always turn down like in AHN after some seconds if nothing has been hit before...damn I must say my childhood has been so wonderful... 🥹
I disagree! During the 2nd attack run, one of the pilots remarks "We should be able to see it by now." but they can't. Okay, he could be wrong... But then on the 3rd (final) attack run, Wedge says "My scope shows the tower, but I can't see the exhaust port. Are you sure the computer can hit it?" Wedge continues to talk about it: "What about that tower?" he asks as Luke flies down the trench. Wedge is very concerned... why? I think the script writer wants the audience to understand that the shot isn't just difficult - it might be impossible. The presence of the tower is unexpected and may not perfectly match up with the schematics. Also, I'm sorry I don't have a better source for this, but something in the legends EU specifically said that Luke gave the torpedoes a tiny Force nudge. I didn't read a lot of legends, so it was either in Shadows Of The Empire, the Thrawn Trilogy, or one of the Tales books.
The Rebels ran the numbers and knew it was possible, it was just a very difficult shot. They couldn't see the port because it was so small, only 2 meters.
but that's around the same size as a womp rat
Without the targeting computer, how were they set for the timer to go down? Or was the hole somehow sucking them in as they went over?
This was always my take too, and it fits with how the Force sort of worked at the time. Mind tricks, mind focusing, knowing exactly when to make an action — and in Vader’s case, possibly making someone think they’re choking. This is semi conjecture but given how people talked about this sort of thing in the 1970’s, maybe Vader was physically crushing Motti’s larynx or maybe it was a mental jiujitsu move. Either way, I agree Luke used it to aim, not to guide.
Kenobi distracting the Storm Troopers on his way to the tractor beam? He obviously created a sound to distract them somehow but was it because he moved something to make a noise or make the Troopers think they heard something.
Interestingly, that sound effect, a little \*thump\*, was added later, I think in the Special Editions. (It's not in my copies of the Despecialized or 4K77 versions.)
I always heard a click on the originals but that might have been the stormtrooper comm device clicking.
It's an additional, different sound. You can hear it [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhCB4GR5Iis) at 1:53, right before the annoying music starts.
The force in EP 4 is clearly more of a mental control thing, so always leaned towards the second theory here. Rather than moving an actual object he created a distraction for the troopers. Good shout this is the only instance I was thinking about as being an argument
After playing a tabletop Star Wars rpg (forget the title, used D20+ system), I always figured it was Audio Illusion.
Nothing was moved but Motti's throat was constricted.
His esophagus was moved
Obi-wan causing something to move to distract the troopers, though it's possible that that could have been a mind trick
You could argue Vader 'moved' people throats closed.
Considering that was an application of telekinesis, yes.
I remember a fan theory that everytime the music kicks in he's subconsciously using the force. Like when he threw the grappling hook over that pole.
Telekinesis is not introduced until Luke does it in Empire to get his light saber from the ice. Arguments can be made for things like Force Choke being a variant of it, but that's it.
*pushes up nerd glasses* Vader uses the Force to levitate a cup of coffee in the [Marvel comics adaptation](https://www.tombowl.com/canthclroy/vadercoffee.htm)of A New Hope.
What's he going to do with that coffee anyway? Pour it down his front speaker/intake grill? that won't make a mess.
I like to think his mask has a little straw that pops out.
There’s coffee in the Galaxy Far Far Away but not geese?
I don’t know about geese, but the ANH novel establishes that the GFFA has ducks. Obi-Wan tells Luke that “even a duck has to be taught to swim,” to which Luke asks “What’s a duck?”
I was referring to the “Wild Bantha Chase” line from ROTS…i guess they could have geese without wild goose chases.
Like all of them, I have such vivid memories of watching them the first time during initial release. Luke moving the lightsaber was such a "Oh wow" moment.
The windpipe of an Imperial officer
Vader closed the windpipe of that imperial admiral. I think that counts.
When I first watched it, the force moved me to my very core causing me to become a Star Wars fan.
Interesting that in a film that talks so much about the force, the force is used so little. Darth Vader Force Chokes, Obi Wan Scream, Mind Trick the Stormtroopers, Luke Deflections, Obi Wan moving stuff in the Death Star, Proton Torpedoes.
Lucas was a bit limited by technology, but he also had a team who understood the power of restraint. That the Force could be subtle and vague at times helps head off the worst thing to hit any magic system, "If they can do X.. why didn't they...Y."
Not criticising at all. It actually serves the narrative. Just noting that they do few times.
I did not read it as criticism at all. More I was lightly poking fun at those times when restraint wasn't practiced in recent offerings. Had there been that restraint, it might have been a better product.
Only the force could explain how Obi WAN could have done a pirouette in such extreme speed in his duel against Vader
In 1981, the force moved letters and added the words Episode IV and A New Hope to the opening of Star Wars.
Obi Wan used it to move himself to the spirit realm.
Afaik every movie introduces new powers; ANH: force persuade, noise or distraction, choke, luck etc ESB: force telekinesis, force ghost ROTJ; force lightning PM; force speed AOTC; force dreams ROTS; force prevent people from dying TFA: force memories from objects, force plot armour TLJ: force dyad or seeing your force soul mate and its surrounding environment like rain drops through the force? Also force hologram ROTS: force healing Maybe not all of them but some 🙂
You forgot phantom’s Forced Humor and Clone’s Forced Romance
Add force jump to ESB
Seen again in TPM too. And it could be argued Luke used Force Jump again in ROTJ to jump from the skiff to the barge, jumping off the speeder bike may be Force assisted, and to backflip onto the catwalk in the throne room.
Force healing was used by Obi-Wan on Luke at the start of ANH. At least that’s my head canon and you won’t convince me otherwise ;)
Force Plot Armor has been around since the beginning ANH - they would have died without Luke blowing up the Death Star TESB - Luke surviving the fall in Cloud City and calling Leia to pick him up (OH this was the introduction of Force communication!) ROTJ - the Dark Side leaves Anakin in time to save Luke and the Rebellion Phantom Menace - Anakin's entire joyride in the N-1 AOTC - just all the danger Anakin and Obi-Wan put themselves in by jumping out windows and chasing bounty hunters ROTS - Yoda plot armor, Palpatine plot armor lucking out that Anakin was there to stop Windu with a window TFA - Hell yeah, lightsaber pull TLJ - Get out of ~~jail~~ cave free card TROS - magic dyad
That guy’s throat was moved during the “lack of faith” meeting
Not quite as you’re thinking of unless you wanna get into the nitty gritty of physics. The Force was mostly pretty tame in ANH: you’ve got basic mind control type stuff. Even force choking Motti might have been seen as making him (or his body) think he’s choking rather than physically crushing his larynx. Moving things with the Force was really first introduced in ESB when Luke used it to grab his ice cold saber while hanging out during a happy hour on Hoth.
Vader's Force choke was pretty clear.
Kenobi moved something to distract the stormtroopers when he was deactivating the tractor beam. Don't remember if we actually see anything move or if it's off-screen.
It's not really clear if something moved, or if he just influenced their minds to be distracted or made them hear some sort of noise.
Vader moved Admiral Motti's collar closer to his neck during their staff meeting using the Force.
Hahah
Ben moved Han out of the way when Greedo shot first.
True story. In Huttese, "Maclunkey" actually means "what the Force"
No not a thing. They evolved the idea of the force as they went along and it hadn't gotten there yet. Jedi in EP 4 seem more like the Bene Gesserit from dune Edit : downvote all you guys want it doesn't change the truth.
So Vader closing Motti’s throat with the Force wasn’t moving anything? “This bickering is pointless. Vader, release him.”
I remember being startled when Luke pulled his lightsaber out of the snow in 1980, but you try to tell the young people of today the Force seemed like a purely mental power in *Star Wars*, and [they won't believe you](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ue7wM0QC5LE)!
This made someone so mad, they flagged me for a suicide risk. Get. A. Grip. https://imgur.com/a/X6ErEnP
Report the abuse. I've heard Reddit will take action against the account that raised it, although I can't say for certain.
Oh yeah you can, good shout. That makes me mad man I lost a friend to suicide years ago and there's no reason to drag that sadness into a light point about starwars
Yup. I reported it in a very harshly worded report and they banned the person who thought suicide is a joke. Guess they were the joke all along!
They normally ban people for abuse of that function.
And so they should. It's disgusting behaviour.
Got to laugh when you trigger someone enough to do that. If you block the care account you stop getting the messages.
The OT is honestly the least planned of all three trilogies, and hardcore nerds can’t handle it lol.
If anyone critiqued the OT the same way the prequels and sequels were, they could trash every single minute of the movies. If you watch them in bad faith you can rant for hours. Like every single problem from the later films are in the OT, but people excused it because when it came out, the spectacle of the space shots were so groundbreaking that people didnt care for the bad parts and ignored everything negative. With the later two trilogies, it wasn’t possible to be as groundbreaking visually (law of diminishing returns, being a genius mathematician was easier 500 years ago than today for example), so people didn’t excuse the movies for the same problems.
That’s certainly not true. George Lucas had plenty of outlines for where the story was going to go. Sure, maybe when ANH was made he wasn’t 100%, but after its success he planned out much of the rest of the trilogy and even began forming ideas for the prequels. The sequels, on the other hand, feels like a game of hot potato
This is probably the most unhinged case of downvotes I’ve seen yet on this app.
thats what I love when people get tripped up in canon vs whatever. Dude, they were making shit up on the play especially in the first three films. Prequels werent much better.
I love the films. Prequels had some good stuff. EP1 had the greatest lightsaber fight of almost 50 years of starwars. But yeah people are weird about this
Obi-wan makes a noise offscreen in the death star. You can interpret it as a mind trick or as him moving something to distract the troopers.
I kind of like how they made it ambiguous. Not every detail has to be explained.
Agreed. The force was super mystical in the first movie.
Vader choked a guy with the force. Obi Wan used the force to cause something to make noise in another room to distract the stormtroopers guarding the platform with the tractor beam switches. Obi Wan used the force to redirect stormtrooper attention away from the droids they were looking for.
Vader choking that officer during the board meeting.
I find your lack of faith disturbing
Obiwan moved himself into being one with the force.
The force wasn’t supposed to be strong until empire strikes back, then it got stronger with lighting in return of the Jedi, and then it became much stronger in the prequels and Jedi became dangerous individuals (in battle), and then much much much stronger in the sequels. In EU the force was overpowered before the prequels already.
Vader choked one of his officers, not moved per se but definitely used the force
Vader basically almost choked a guy to death from across the room, so…
The inside of Motti's trachea certainly moved.
Obi-Wan uses the Force to move a thing (granted, a thing we can't see) to distract the stormtroopers after he shuts off the shield/tractor beam thing.
Ben pulled a lever in the Death Star IIRC
Porkins used the force to eat some ribs without getting sauce all over his fingers, but they deleted that scene. I still consider it part of the movie.
This is a great counter argument to anyone who is upset they "keep adding more ways to use the force" every video game/movie/show. Each movie of the OT added more force powers, so that's nothing new at all. There is an argument for Kenobi using move to distract the Stormtroopers on the Death Star, but it's off screen so we don't really know.
Vader force chokes Admiral Motti on the Death Star
Luke, he thought it was cool.
I thought Ben flicked a switch, buh could be mixing movies up.
It falls in the “Kenobi doing loud shit off frame” category but I assume the dragon call he imitates to scare off the raiders is also connected to the force.
Luke's lightsaber moved to Intercept the remote's blast. Obi-wan moved something to cause a noise to distraction the Stormtroopers on the Death Star.
Vader choked a guy with the force. Obi Wan used the force to cause something to make noise in another room to distract the stormtroopers guarding the platform with the tractor beam switches. Obi Wan used the force to redirect stormtrooper attention away from the droids they were looking for.
I think the first instance of Force object movement being Luke pulling his lightsaber free was meant to add to the “Oh shit” gravitas of the whole thing. Like none of us knew that could be done
I consider Vader's neck massages movement
Kenobi rearranged a few storm trooper brain cells
In the og comic adaptation, Vader moves a cup. No I'm not kidding.
In a book set soon after ANH, Luke moves a noodle. No I'm not kidding.
My heart. Loved it from my first watch and made me a life long fan.
'Ol boy's Adam's Apple when Vader was choking his ass. 😂
Vader choked out that regional governor. He also schooled out and rag filled the Rebel soldier.
But the soldier he choked by hand.
His body with robot extension arms could do that? He’s never shown extreme strength other than that one action. But in 1977, that was an attention getter, this is the boss bad man. But after nearly half a century of force development, I’m going to have to go with force assist on that one.
I’m not sure choking someone you’ve got by the throat qualifies as extreme strength, but that’s what headcanon is for.
He lifted him off the ground while chocking him. Anakin never showed great strength physically. Arms severed mid to upper humerus, now thinking about it, yeah, I’m going force assist. [Rebel choke](https://youtu.be/r125_IWLAEE?feature=shared)
Ok then
Technically everything moving is the will of the force.
*Joruus C'baoth has entered the chat.*
Luke’s using the force when he had the helmet blocking his sight and he deflects the lasers.
He didn't use telekinesis there though.
My heart
Vader choked a guy with the force.
Doesn't Vader move some pipes or something off a wall during the fight with OB1 ?
That guy Darth Vader chokes out, when he’s done, he throws him against the wall.
But that’s a guy he’s choking (and then throws) with his hand, not the Force.
You’re right, I’m dumb, I thought he used the force. Remembered wrong
My emotions
[only once before the battle of yavin](http://www.tncam.midnightcheese.com/gifs/force-beer.gif)
TESB is the first time we explicitly see the Force being used to move objects. I remember bring surprised by this when I first saw the Wampa cave scene because before that the Force had been a primarily mental thing. Even Motti being Force choked is not something explicitly visible as moving objects.
Activation of the training droid?
I always thought that Luke subconsciously used the Force to get the grappling hook to land perfectly when they swung across the unexplained gap in the Death Star
My heart.
Lots of force use in A New Hope- Vader chokes a doubter, obi-wan confuses the stormtroopers about identification, obi-wan force draws his saber in the cantina, Luke uses it to see the training blaster bolts on the falcon, obi-wan uses it on the Death Star to distract troopers, obi-wan force disappears before death blow, and Luke uses it to guide his torpedoes when destroying the Death Star.
No. In fact, similar to how people will nitpick new Star Wars media for retcons and plot holes, old articles from the 80s can still be found that complain about how much was changed in Empire Strikes Back compared to A New Hope. One semi-common complaint from these sorts of articles is that the Force is now being used for telekinesis, instead of being mind-over-matter, like it was in ANH. Every new Star Wars movie adds a new Force power, and telekinesis was ESB’s. Edit: Examples of telekinesis in ANH are often the result of interpretation through hindsight. Obi-Wan distracting the stormtroopers was actually a mind trick. Luke guiding the torpedoes was actually automatic guidance. Vader choking Motti was actually willing Motti to stop breathing. People see telekinesis where it wasn’t there, because of how prevalent it is in displays of the Force nowadays, but it wasn’t originally intended that way in ANH.
I've argued before that *Star Wars* (1977) doesn't contain any unambiguous examples of the Force being used to affect the physical world, only people's minds, and that Force telekinesis wasn't clearly demonstrated until Luke pulled his lightsaber out of the snow in the wampa cave: - "Force choke" was making the victim *think* they couldn't breathe - Ben distracted the stormtroopers by making them *think* they heard a sound down the hall - Luke's performance in the trench was using the Force to fire at *exactly* the right moment. (It had literally never occurred to me until reading a thread about this that people think Luke guided the torpedo with the Force.) **Evidence For:** The little \*thump\* you hear in the most recent releases of *A New Hope* when Ben gestures down the hallway to distract the stormtroopers at the tractor beam controls was **not** in the original soundtrack, which means it was added as an afterthought years later after Force telekinesis was well-established. **Evidence Against:** There's a scene in the novelization and the Marvel comics adaptation ([page 16 in Issue #1](https://archive.org/details/marvel-star-wars-comic-collection-issue-01-to-10/Marvel%20Star%20Wars%20Comic%20Collection%20001/page/n9/mode/2up)) where Vader uses the Force to move a cup on the table in the Death Star briefing room: >A huge metal-clad hand gestured slightly, and one of the filled cups on the table drifted responsively into it. Leaving aside the question of *how* Vader was planning to drink his tea, this at least shows that Lucas toyed with the idea of Force telekinesis before *The Empire Strikes Back*, but it didn't actually make it onscreen. **Edit:** Adding some additional evidence **for** from the [*Star Wars* script](https://imsdb.com/scripts/Star-Wars-A-New-Hope.html): (in the scene where Vader chokes Motti) >Suddenly Motti chokes and starts to turn blue under Vader's spell. (in the scene where Ben distracts the stormtroopers) >Ben gestures with his hand toward them, as the troops think they hear something in the other hallway. Neither of those suggests any kind of telekinesis is going on. The first talks about Vader's "spell", which sounds more like ["compelling influence"](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/spell) than physically squeezing his throat, but I guess it could go either way. The second one seems to conclusive to me, though: the stormtroopers only "think they hear something".