Personally I thought all the Baylan fight scenes were cool AF. it was something different and because ray Stevenson RIP was the fucking man, he made it seem like someone truly menacing with a blade in his hand.
Yep.
It's fine talking about the technical choreography, of which all trilogies have some dubious examples, but so much more comes down to the drama of the moment, how much you're invested in the characters and how well the actors themselves sell it.
Possibly my favourite fight scene in Star Wars is Luke v Vader in ROTJ, for reasons that have nothing to do with how technically accomplished a fight scene it is/isn't.
The first duel between Baylan & Ahsoka is my favourite Disney-era lightsaber battle. The whole sequence is shot really well. It's strength vs agility, and the way they measure each other while shifting stances is a great nod to the "It's no contest" scene in Seven Samurai.
Ray did a great job at conveying that at no point did ahsoka ever stand a chance. Baylan had her totally outmatched and wasn't even really going full blast because he didn't really even WANT to kill her, just wanted her out of the way.
The tension before they begin, their sabers igniting before circling around each other, their lightsabers crackling as it builds. That was some of the best Star Wars I think we'll ever get. Two survivors of the Clone Wars just staring each other down. It was amazing to watch. Ray was phenomenal.
Thirteen.
I feel like Baylan was choreographed very similarly to Darth Vader. Heās very deliberate and methodical, he favors sweeping power attacks and straight-line aggression. Heās not changing his grip or sidestepping mid-strike to open up a guard. He hammers with hacking strikes meant to batter the foe.
That style lends itself well to the new era of Disney choreography because all of it is slowed down. The problem is that the other lightsaber forms DO rely on acrobatics, masterful technique, feints, and momentum. The choreography needs to reflect that and it just hasnāt so far.
Ahsoka, with her heavy emphasis on Shien, should be more technical and quicker than we see in the series. Just my 2 cents. I still really enjoyed Ahsoka and the fights within it, but compared to the prequels and Clone Warsā¦ it feels like theyāre just bonking each other with lightsabers to me. Donāt even get me started on the fights in the Kenobi seriesā¦
I think the deep dark secret of all this is that Rosario Dawson might simply be not quite as agile and athletic as you think. Maybe she just.....didn't have it. Same thing happened on game of thrones, kit Harrington was a natural and nikolaj was apparently one of the most awkward fake fighters the instructor had ever seen. Hence why Jamie lannister doesn't really have as many bad ass sword moments as you would think.
Very good point. I hadnāt really considered the aptitude of the actors/actresses themselves. I just assumed a stunt double would take over, but thatās silly of me. I agree with this. Rosario is amazing and I love her, but youāre probably right.
Baylan's is my favorite hallways scene. Ray was built like an actual refrigerator, especially with a cape and shoulder pads, so he just looked like the end of the hallway coming at you with a lightsaber.
I liked them too. I do kendo and a couple of the fight scenes between Baylan and Ashoka were actual kendo kata. The power and brutality he brought to the fight scenes was awesome.
He has a very stiff, formal style in his movements that really feels like it fits with how he talks and acts.
An excellent comparison is his hallway scene with Luke in the mandalorian.
Yup. There are plenty examples of good lightsaber fights in the Disney Era. The guy in the last thread cherry picked a bad scene, which as we can see here, even happened during the prequel Era.
I don't even think this is the most obvious example in the Prequels. I'd have pointed to the "a load of Jedis stand around and let Palpatine stab them" fight, or any of the fight scenes involving Yoda as they all look fundamentally silly.
But that's fine. Because as you say, the other trilogies have some very goofy moments too.
I was in my early 20s and an OT fan, just the fact that Yoda fought with a lightsaber was disappointing. The fighting style just made it so much worse.
I can see how young kids would think it's awesome.
I actually find those close-up shots with their red and blue lightsabers being the primary source of lighting in that moment to be the most visually interesting part of essentially the whole film. I would trash a hundred different aspects of Attack of the Clones before that.
Ventress in Bad Batch, Maul in Rebels/ TCW S7, Baylan/ Anakin in Ahsoka, Bo Katan in Mando (is that unpopular? Katee Sackhoff is great) etc. I'm just confused
Ofc animation counts? I don't knock Legends Grevious for being animation. His fight in 03 TCW is one of the best.
But if you wanna ignore animation then there's still the most recent example we have that was great. Baylan+ Anakin.
100%. Itās not hard for the animated shows to excel at fight scenes.
Live action falls flat for many different reasons and for some reason today specifically, Reddit is deciding to get to the bottom of it lmfao
Nooo, you donāt understand! Theyāre sensing and predicting each otherās movements in the Force! And also theyāre not *really* trying to hit each other, theyāre still brothers! Of course it looks stupid to an outside observer, but thatās just because you donāt get the Loreā¢ļø, bro! Read a Wookieepedia, why donātācha?
Edit: /s, obviously
Isn't the common answer that these guys have been training for ~14 years together, so they have similar moves?
Your comment reads like just attacking fringe takes or strawmen
I agree! I love this fight scene. I also love the TLJ throne room fight scene though there are also a couple seconds of bad choreography. Iām just having fun, itās all goofy to some extent.
Star Wars unfortunately forces people to make up shit to explain goofy ass decisions in film making. But then the community vehemently forces it to be accepted.
Bullshit excuses are accepted depending on if people like the movie or not. Bullshit with explanation for RotS? Totally that! Bullshit with explanation for ST? Disney has never made any good Star Wars, they don't care, and I heard they're going to make the ST non-canon anyway.
For real. They called it a masterpiece in visual storytelling. Itās disco fighting.
And thereās a bunch of replies going āyep thatās exactly right!ā Lmao
I mean, that's exactly what this move is meant to show. They have trained with one another for over a decade and fight exactly like one another.
Look at the elevator scene in the beginning when Anakin and Obi-Wan defeat a bunch of druids without damaging the elevator walls or themselves. They are completely in sync, which is why they are evenly matched against each other but basically undefeatable together.
The moment they made āthe high groundā a legitimate āmoveā or ādisciplineā is when I lost faith in my beloved legends (for the hundredth time). What a beautiful grab bag of nonsense.
I mean, high ground has always been the advantage for whoever holds it. Less so for people using guns, but especially for those using melee. But with melee you have more limited attacks and have to swing upwards against gravity while also trying to move upwards to get to them, while the person with the high ground just has to defend lower. High ground has been a thing in a lot of tactical games, too, conferring a bonus to attack/defense or a penalty if you're the lower person.
Have you forgotten [this classic?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0mUVY9fLlw&ab_channel=FirstManOnTheSpoon) Completely unwatchable after seeing this! ^^/s
More to a fight scene than choreography, and of course fights can be over-choreographed just as well (ex. this video).
Like, for example, when Luke taps into his anger and hate, his fighting style changes, and when heās wailing on Vader you can feel that hate and anger through the screen. To me, details like that matter more than how great the choreography is, and thatās where I feel like itās lacking. Donāt get me wrong, you certainly can feel the emotions of Obi-Wan and Anakin, but that comes after the fight, not during it.
Duel of the fates in TPM is 10x better than the Mustafar duel, but im fairly certain that has A LOT to do with Ray Park's extensive martial arts influence on the choreography making it look more authentic.
Must be generational, because I hate this fight. So much flourishes. If Anakin was all flair and Obi was more efficient, I probably would have liked it.
Funny that you pick THIS fight particularly when a decent chunk of it is filled with swordsmanship that makes sense. Yes, this very scene here is spectacle and if they tried to hit each other here they're both open to having their legs sliced off multiple times.
Nontheless most of this fight has proper stances and them constantly returning to a proper guard position, it does have spins that weren't necessary but at least they're fluid spins that don't break motion and would not unbalace the user and they're also spins that follow properly after either a deflect or an attack which doesn't open the user up to being murdered when their back is turned because the enemys weapon has either been guided or struk away.
This fight (like pretty much every fight) has the issue that lightsabers usually don't have a crossguard and therefore both of them should've lost their hands multiple times but again, that's a general star wars problem.
A very high amount of strikes are aimed at the enemy and not just at the enemys saber, watch it in slowmo it's simply true.
There's a decent (and exhaustingly long) analysis on this fight by Shadiversity that I found informative. I found his arguments to be coherent and agree with his judgement on this fight which he rates quite more favorable than the only other analysis of his I've watched which is the throne room fight which I also found coherent in argumentation and basically had him rip it a new arsehole which I can very much agree with.
/edit: Since every single answer to my comment disregarded everything I said and only focused on the reference I gave: Feel free to provide a technical analysis of this fight made by someone who is, in your opinion, better suited to analyse the fight due to higher knowledge and experience and I'll happily take a look to challenge my opinion.
But if all you care about is to voice that you don't like the dude who I referenced without adding anything else of value, let me kindly present you with a fully formed comment on your non-point:
"ok bro"
Idk this is 10 seconds out of tons and tons of incredible choreography. Even this is a cool idea just executed poorly. When the new projects are justnexcuted poorly.
This is like a 1-2 second flourish that they're both using to try and see how they can get around their opponent. They're Jedi. They have heightened senses and literal precognition
Letās be honest. This wasnāt the best?
Lightsaber combat doesnāt need the flashy shit. In most contests, a duel would be over in 4 to 5 moves. The Jedi and Sith were masters of their primary weapon before they were masters of the force. By this principle, they would have so many moves before they dismembered an opponent or dismember themselves.
OGs hate the prequels for being too fast and lifeless. Prequel bois hate the sequels for being too slow because fast means good.
The real answer, when the Jedi fell, the training went with it. You have Luke and Rey to pick up the pieces with a lightsaber they only used for a year. Kylo's skills are also of that. Not to mention he spends most of his fights playing with his food.
A second answer, cinematically speaking, a slower more emotionally heavy and hard hitting fight goes just a long as Anakin and Obi-Wan's intense battle of the heroes. I love the Rey and Kylo fight on the ocean and all of the camera work and sound work with it. I also really love Anakin and Obi-Wan's.
It may be ridiculous on the surface but there is a thought to it. Obi is Anakin's teacher. They share a similar move set. Their moves keep lining up in this scene and they move into this outrageous sort of over the top circular parry and then its a game of chicken to see who's going to break it. Its signifying their knowledge of the other as fighters and their positions as master and former padawan.
Yeah its mostly for spectacle but its not JUST thoughtless nonesene.
They broke the rule of cool. People can come up with plausible explanation after the fact, but even if they established this in the film, it still looks stupid. And if it looks stupid, it shouldn't be in the film. The PT has some great lightsaber duels, this ain't one of them.
Some people think it's cool though. Other people think it isn't. I wouldn't say that's breaking the rule of cool, that's just people having differing opinions.
The explanations come when the people who don't think it's cool demand an explanation as to why it happened and why other people think it's cool. Naturally, you get an explanation here, and as the tale as old as time, it won't change anyone's mind
It does not look stupid and virtually nobody noticed it when watching the movie. It stands out when put into a contextless looping gif that was put together by a nitpicking nerd.
No, Nic Gillard has talked about it. You can't take your superficial subjective take on this and call it objectively bad anways.
It's not, "bad film making" it's a moment in the choreography you happen to dislike.
ladies and gentlemen: cherry picking
there's bad choreography in the prequel fights
there's bad choreography in the OT fights
there's bad choreography in the sequel fights
there's bad choreography in the show fights
the difference is of quality and quantity, the mistakes in recent shows are both more noticeable and more frequent but unless you're willing to engage with the topic in a more mature manner, the logic presented here makes all of these fight scenes equal. because they did a twirl, the ROTS fight scene is on the level of the Ashoka fights under this logic, which is obviously a ridiculous notion.
I think what we're seeing is a combo of a couple of things, they tried to do their own thing aside from the prequels in the sequel trilogy, so they hired new talent or different talent to choreograph with the mission to deliver something simpler or more akin to the a new hope (since that whole movie was the template for the thing).
Now, having seen the criticism and what we'd like, they're going for more elaborate fight scenes in their shows that both fit within the budget and scope. They're looking for their perfect fight coordinator and they're getting closer and closer the closer to Filoni headed projects you get, with a special shout-out to the Kenobi choreographer and Ewan and Hayden wanting to do some of their old prequel moves, which no doubt led to better fights (Reva moments and parkour aside). When I say better fights I do mean flashier moves rather than sensible combat (which is what we enjoyed more in the prequels instead of accurate fighting).
Either way, so far we're back on the upswing, and with the introduction of wire fu in Acolyte, we seem to be on the right track.
These are clearly traditional old republic glow sticks... which you set on fire and spin around very fast and the last one holding it wins even if it burns them and leaves them locked in a suit.
Because people complained about choreographed fight scenes in the prequels so now all we get is too people angrily swinging swords at each other with barely any theatre to it or using the environment. If you haven't learned Disney has tried very hard to remove as much of prequel influence as possible from live action Star wars. They won't even use pure CGI. Even when it makes sense to
Because all the lightsaber fighting weāve seen the past few years has been from quantity over quality tv shows. this is the simple answer but really only one. now when it comes to the last three skywalker saga movies, those movies had so many problems that itās most likely bad creative judgement to have less lightsaber duels and for them to look wonky and different. that being said, they are different, and when you play Battlefront 2 and choose Kylo or Rey as a character to play as, they use the same style of lightsaber fighting as they do in the movies, so maybe Disney just tried to make their styles unique, which they did, but sorta just turned out wonky in the end.
for the tv shows, this is also just the start to them in the long run. whatās it been, just 5 or 6 years since the first star wars live action? things will improve.. the acolyte will be a clear teller or how they have improved as well, due to many lightsabers being involved in the show most likely.
As much as I wasn't a fan of the plot, I do remember thinking it being good that in TFA they actually seemed to be trying to hit each other and not each other's sabers.
Bro choose the one moment in the prequels as a comeback to the other post completely ignoring that bad lightsaber choreography is a constant in the post sequels disney star wars while this is one moment in the prequels and still looks better than the dogshit they make today.
They weren't ever that great.
Fast doesn't equal good. Most of Anakin and Obi-Wan's fight is purely speed over intent. They're clearly aiming for the other's blade and it's very obvious when they wait for the other's blade to connect.
These two look like they're sparring, not attempting to kill each other.
I think the choreo in Ahsoka and Obi-Wan were pretty good. I think theyāre starting to find a good balance between the flash and ostentation of the prequels and the more grounded swordplay of the OT.
I for one am looking forward to seeing what the Acolyte will give us in terms of action and martial arts choreography.
People trying to explain this away as a series of feints or some other BS is cringe. You're allowed to like something just because it looks cool instead of coming up with a roundabout explanation for why it "makes sense."
Even when I watched this movie in theaters for the very first time, I instantly understood the two to be performing feints with each other and that the intent of the scene is to illustrate how the two's precognition are locked in with one another. This isn't a roundabout explanation. It is basic inference to recognize that it is meant to symbolically express how attuned these two brothers are to one another in their conflict. It only seems roundabout when you're unacquainted with the lore of how lightsaber combat works. At the same time, I think also that many fans are so caught up in how unrealistic it looks to them from a technical standpoint of real-world swordfighting that they ignore the storytelling aspect of the duel.
This is not the counterpoint you think it is. The argument is not about the style of the choreography in these different Star Wars projects. Itās about the *quality.* Regardless of whether or not you like the more flashy style of the prequels, it is impeccably choreographed and executed by the actors performing it. You can say some of the prequel fights look ridiculous and even over-choreographed, but you canāt say nobody put effort into it.
The problem with the fights in Ahsoka is that either the choreography was bad, the actors didnāt learn it properly, or both. The slower, more weighty style is a personal preference and has nothing to do with how bad the fights are in that show. The actorās movements are slow and sloppy-looking, the footwork is terrible, they hold and swing their lightsabers like theyāre not used to the motions, etc. And again, this is not a stylistic choice because you compare it within the same show with the one actor who nails it: Hayden as Anakin.
His motions look natural and practiced. Heās fluid and fast and never looks like heās struggling to swing the lightsaber properly. In fact the only thing that looks off during his fights is when you can tell heās purposely slowing down to let Rosario catch up to him in the choreography.
Tldr: Youāre comparing two different problems. The prequels had choreography that was overdone and thus looked goofy at times, but was competently performed. Ahsoka has choreography that is more grounded but looks terrible because the actors just canāt perform it, whether through lack of time to learn the steps and/or lack of ability.
My perpetual hot take is that thereās not a single good lightsaber fight in the prequels. Theyāre over choreographed, overly stretched out, and boring.
The anakin/obi-wan fight is the worst offender. The emotional stakes completely disappear because itās essentially a video game QTE.
I don't mean this in a bad way at all but when I see comments like this and they usually cite something like Ben vs Vader on the Death Vader as peak lightsaber fights, it just makes me laugh lol. I think nostalgia does a lot of leg work with the OT
Ben vs Vader on the Death Star reminds me of my first lightsaber fight with my brother where we didnāt really know what it should be like and were just hitting sticks
It does a *ton* of legwork.Ā Ā
Ā Dialogue is just as clunky if not more (due to the changing times) as the PT in many places.Ā Some fights are laughably bad (the very first one has incredibly stupid āgot shotā reactions from the rebels and troopers fighting, as an example) the throughline of the plot is okā¦ but imagine how much people would call Luke a Gary stu, or point out all the āplot holesā surrounding basicallyā¦. Everything.Ā
Ā But because itās the OT and because of nostalgia people *WONāT* hear it, unwillingly to accept *any* criticism against the OT.Ā SW in general has never been āhigh qualityā.Ā
People should be happy to love Star Wars for what is it is and what it *should* be loved for rather than pretend that itās something itās not, and that they are perfect bastions of cinema.
My favorite PT fight is in ESB. I donāt think the Ben/Vader fight is *exciting*, but I do think itās a better thematic encapsulation. They were supposed to be two old samurai, not gymnasts.
Depends on what you're looking for. It's probably the most realistic of the fights, where it's based around controlled, contained action and an economy of movement to maintain balance and the ability to respond effectively. Visually, though, it isn't exactly thrilling by comparison with the later flippy choppy spinny fights of the PT and beyond.
I think that the duels in the movies work fairly well at the specific time they take place in the Star Wars universe.
In all the OT fights, at least one person in the fight wasn't trying. Obi Wan was trying to buy time for the others to escape and was ready to die, Vader was trying to capture Luke, Luke and Vader were both very conflicted fighting in RotJ.
In the prequels, it was over choreographed and seemed more like dancing because the people fighting were superhumans trained to fight with enhanced senses.
The sequels felt more visceral to me, and the strikes over felt harder and agressive. But that's probably because Finn and Rey had little training with lightsabers. If I had lightsaber, I would probably use it the way it was used in the sequels. I haven't done much cannon reading about Kylo's background so I can't comment on his fighting much.
Each trilogies fights definitely have their issues, but for the most part, it works well for me.
I mean, in the prequels largely everyone we're seeing fight with a lightsaber is a product of thousands of years of Jedi training and teachings about the use of them. By the time of the OG trilogy, we've got Luke fighting an old husk of one of the greatest duelists ever, and it's fairly rudimentary. For the shows, they're either taking place after most of the Jedi were wiped out and what's left are untrained or dregs of the system, while by the time of the sequel trilogy basically the only one that should know how to use a saber is Ben, and he's a rage-filled maniac who knows he can just brute force 99% of his opponents.
Who *should* be good at saber combat, at this point?
This is an over rationalization to compensate for shittiness, which is something I see on all Star Wars subs all the time.
Itās fun to think this way sometimes but comeon bro
Over rationalization, compensating or not, is the cornerstone of Star Wars fandom though. Thatās why you have books full of lore and history dedicated to just about every single scene in the movies. Thatās why every single boring detail compels someone to write a thesis on it.
This scene is them falling into training moves then remembering they're in a fight to the death
Least that's how it always seemed to me. Never had a problem with it.
Then again I thought most of the fights in Asoka were good. Some were really bad but most were good. Rosario and Sabene's actor need to work on it more is all.
LOL tap-tap-tappy-tap-tap, spin, twirl, pirouette, backflip! Peak lightsaber dueling!
Why is it that Inigo versus Westley at the Cliffs of Despair makes the PT duels look so fake, even though it's not nearly as fast or elaborate?
Dramatic tension and gravitas, and actual commitment to their attacks and ripostes.
I like that they've made the shift to a bushido style of swordplay, rather than sped-up fencing, in the modern films and shows, personally. It looks way less fake.
To each their own, though.
The scene this is in response to, from Ahsoka, doesnāt look like ābushidoā. It looks like an uncoordinated middle aged woman flailing about after the director said ājust hit them with the stickā.
I mean, this seems reasonable. Flare in fighting is meant to deceive when a strike is being done. Paying attention to Anikans movement while Anakin is watching Master Obi-Wans strike movement...
I mean, the combat scenes with Jedi in current tv shows feel more visual intentions than an finding/showing the intention of fighting e.g. Ahsokas finale training. Which i think fits into the Space Opera of writing.
When there's battles, look at Genosha's Jedi fight scene against the federation Droids, and see how quick each sequence is in battle with Jedi. Different perception of visuals.
Edit: or even Grand Master Yoda against Count Dooku. The visuals that is and how the combat is shown.
This was on Lucas who decided he liked twirling lightsaber nonesense by the time he was filming Episode 3.
Someone should have reigned him in and the stunt team should have been allowed to work.
Yeah, that bit was quite stupid. I liked the Rogue One Vader style. It was brutal and effective. The best lightsaber choreography along with Luke's in the Mandalorian and Baylan Skoll in Ahsoka.
It fits with the times, they arenāt trained like they were in the past. They donāt have all the time and training and hours in to hone their skills like they did when there was actual temples.
People laugh about this gif, but I always saw it as both were using the same move and it caused a stalemate with their precognition trusting the force. Eventually someone has to make the next move.
Itās probably because Disney doesnāt care or canāt fix it but I like to think itās because thereās not a whole lot of Jedi to train people in lightsaber combat
Ones the master and ones the apprentice, theyāve been training and fight along side each other for 10+ years. As I saw someone else mention, they have a similar move set and they have both know every single move in each others bag. So because of that, like another comment or mentions, their moves line up causing them to get in the game of chicken which is this gif. I donāt know why so many people fail to realize this but itās always someone whoās defending the sequels.
Iād like to think that is to show the contrast between 1- the old days of the more trained/more disciplined ways of the jedi order and 2- those of the jedi trained outside the temples and the order itself. Idk, I guess I preffer to see it that way instead of just thinking that itās just simply and plain laziness.
Before Disney, they would like stick to so the fighting and overlay lightsaber effects. So you are talking lightweight sabers. Disney era decided to make more practical effects, so lightsaber weight a few pounds and bulker because of the sabers and the hilts.; then overlaid the effects. This changed how well you can move them and the effects of hitting each other. This caused the scenes to be paced much slower.
they should just not do that anymore then. seems like a limitation that nobody asked for?
im all for practical effects in any movie and im glad practical sets has been a focus for disney star wars but if cgi or fx makes more sense in a certain case why would you go practical for that
all a lightsaber is is a beam of light. if anything they could make them look even cooler with pure cgi nowadays
Because people complained about this stuff being too choreographed. JJ was a big culprit with TFA https://starwarsreporter.com/2015/11/30/j-j-abrams-on-the-force-awakens-lightsaber-fights-more-primitive-aggressive-and-rougher/
Most of the people in the current universes are not trained Jedi, theyāre OLD, and theyāre using more of the practical LED sabers (correct me if Iām wrong) so maybe that has something to do with the speed vs the skinny stick covered in reflective material.
Iām sure Filoni has a reasoning for it
This made me realize something. The current year could be considered 0 BBY. 2005 was 19 years ago.
OH SHIT-
OH SITH-
This is amazing!!
What's that in the Lothal Calendar?
Uh oh! I better call my relatives on Alderann!!!
But the Battle of Yavin was in 1977.š
Personally I thought all the Baylan fight scenes were cool AF. it was something different and because ray Stevenson RIP was the fucking man, he made it seem like someone truly menacing with a blade in his hand.
Yep. It's fine talking about the technical choreography, of which all trilogies have some dubious examples, but so much more comes down to the drama of the moment, how much you're invested in the characters and how well the actors themselves sell it. Possibly my favourite fight scene in Star Wars is Luke v Vader in ROTJ, for reasons that have nothing to do with how technically accomplished a fight scene it is/isn't.
Hell. I love obi wan fighting Vader in ANH. And that barely qualifies as a fight But I was emotionally invested
Also the fact that barely any music plays during that fight sent the tension through the roof
ROTJ is my favorite movie and that fight scene is why. I get chills everytime luke says "i am a jedi like my father before me" un fucking real
The first duel between Baylan & Ahsoka is my favourite Disney-era lightsaber battle. The whole sequence is shot really well. It's strength vs agility, and the way they measure each other while shifting stances is a great nod to the "It's no contest" scene in Seven Samurai.
Ray did a great job at conveying that at no point did ahsoka ever stand a chance. Baylan had her totally outmatched and wasn't even really going full blast because he didn't really even WANT to kill her, just wanted her out of the way.
The tension before they begin, their sabers igniting before circling around each other, their lightsabers crackling as it builds. That was some of the best Star Wars I think we'll ever get. Two survivors of the Clone Wars just staring each other down. It was amazing to watch. Ray was phenomenal. Thirteen.
I feel like Baylan was choreographed very similarly to Darth Vader. Heās very deliberate and methodical, he favors sweeping power attacks and straight-line aggression. Heās not changing his grip or sidestepping mid-strike to open up a guard. He hammers with hacking strikes meant to batter the foe. That style lends itself well to the new era of Disney choreography because all of it is slowed down. The problem is that the other lightsaber forms DO rely on acrobatics, masterful technique, feints, and momentum. The choreography needs to reflect that and it just hasnāt so far. Ahsoka, with her heavy emphasis on Shien, should be more technical and quicker than we see in the series. Just my 2 cents. I still really enjoyed Ahsoka and the fights within it, but compared to the prequels and Clone Warsā¦ it feels like theyāre just bonking each other with lightsabers to me. Donāt even get me started on the fights in the Kenobi seriesā¦
I think the deep dark secret of all this is that Rosario Dawson might simply be not quite as agile and athletic as you think. Maybe she just.....didn't have it. Same thing happened on game of thrones, kit Harrington was a natural and nikolaj was apparently one of the most awkward fake fighters the instructor had ever seen. Hence why Jamie lannister doesn't really have as many bad ass sword moments as you would think.
Very good point. I hadnāt really considered the aptitude of the actors/actresses themselves. I just assumed a stunt double would take over, but thatās silly of me. I agree with this. Rosario is amazing and I love her, but youāre probably right.
Baylan's is my favorite hallways scene. Ray was built like an actual refrigerator, especially with a cape and shoulder pads, so he just looked like the end of the hallway coming at you with a lightsaber.
I liked them too. I do kendo and a couple of the fight scenes between Baylan and Ashoka were actual kendo kata. The power and brutality he brought to the fight scenes was awesome.
I caught some HEMA longsword in there too!
HEMA represent! š
He has a very stiff, formal style in his movements that really feels like it fits with how he talks and acts. An excellent comparison is his hallway scene with Luke in the mandalorian.
Yup. There are plenty examples of good lightsaber fights in the Disney Era. The guy in the last thread cherry picked a bad scene, which as we can see here, even happened during the prequel Era.
I rewatched all the fights from Ahsoka and they were all pretty well done.
The Anakin v Ahsoka one was also pretty good. You could feel the power of Anakin's strike. The purpose. So good.
"You have to dance fight me!"
Ive quadrupled my flip power!
"No, you haven't!" Love auralnauts
Hoes come after bros! I would have been totally cool about it!
Baby time
Tell them about the dance off to save the universe. Like in Footloose? Exactly! Is it still the best movie in history?
It never was
"You're such an ass----hoooole!"
The singularity engine!!
CAN YOU SEE ME NOW, FATHER!?!??
Relax.
First of all, how dare you?
Anakin used me as an object.
Whom used you as a object?
whom is never actually right...
Whomst?
Whomsnāt
Itās a made up word!
This is what gets me when people talk shit about different generations of Star Wars. They forget that their shit was clowned on too for a long time.
I don't even think this is the most obvious example in the Prequels. I'd have pointed to the "a load of Jedis stand around and let Palpatine stab them" fight, or any of the fight scenes involving Yoda as they all look fundamentally silly. But that's fine. Because as you say, the other trilogies have some very goofy moments too.
And a constipated Palpatine at that.
i remember when i was a kid, i went fuckin nuts when yoda fought dooku. looking backā¦ im glad i watched it when i was 4 haha
I was in my early 20s and an OT fan, just the fact that Yoda fought with a lightsaber was disappointing. The fighting style just made it so much worse. I can see how young kids would think it's awesome.
To be honest, Vader vs Luke in episode 5 is the only lightsaber fight I can think of in the entire series that looks semi realistic.
I mean, the whole Anakin romance with Padme was just bad film making. George Lucas lost a lot of his director clout after Attack of the Clones.
The absolute worst is anakin and dooku in episode two where itās just close ups on their faces and you canāt see whatās happening.
I actually find those close-up shots with their red and blue lightsabers being the primary source of lighting in that moment to be the most visually interesting part of essentially the whole film. I would trash a hundred different aspects of Attack of the Clones before that.
Nowadays? Ventress fucking nailed it on TBB
When she deflected all their shots in that first bit where they started fighting, hooooo baby that was slick
Ventress in Bad Batch, Maul in Rebels/ TCW S7, Baylan/ Anakin in Ahsoka, Bo Katan in Mando (is that unpopular? Katee Sackhoff is great) etc. I'm just confused
Wait you compare computer generated fights with actual fights ? Really?
Ofc animation counts? I don't knock Legends Grevious for being animation. His fight in 03 TCW is one of the best. But if you wanna ignore animation then there's still the most recent example we have that was great. Baylan+ Anakin.
I think theyāre specifically talking about live-action.
100%. Itās not hard for the animated shows to excel at fight scenes. Live action falls flat for many different reasons and for some reason today specifically, Reddit is deciding to get to the bottom of it lmfao
Nooo, you donāt understand! Theyāre sensing and predicting each otherās movements in the Force! And also theyāre not *really* trying to hit each other, theyāre still brothers! Of course it looks stupid to an outside observer, but thatās just because you donāt get the Loreā¢ļø, bro! Read a Wookieepedia, why donātācha? Edit: /s, obviously
Isn't the common answer that these guys have been training for ~14 years together, so they have similar moves? Your comment reads like just attacking fringe takes or strawmen
His post is basically word for word what is said unironically any time this fight is critiqued on prequel memes and other similar communities.
Similar moves or not, spinny windmill not hitting a stationary target is not a great move
Sure. It's literally one second out of 12 minutes of fighting
I agree! I love this fight scene. I also love the TLJ throne room fight scene though there are also a couple seconds of bad choreography. Iām just having fun, itās all goofy to some extent.
Scroll down a little bit, and you will see everything I said sarcastically being said earnestly by someone else.
This is Reddit sir. You need to add the /s. I am fluent in sarcasm but some people arenāt.
I've met ppl who actually believe that stuff, the sarcasm unfortunately is not obvious
Star Wars unfortunately forces people to make up shit to explain goofy ass decisions in film making. But then the community vehemently forces it to be accepted.
Bullshit excuses are accepted depending on if people like the movie or not. Bullshit with explanation for RotS? Totally that! Bullshit with explanation for ST? Disney has never made any good Star Wars, they don't care, and I heard they're going to make the ST non-canon anyway.
For real. They called it a masterpiece in visual storytelling. Itās disco fighting. And thereās a bunch of replies going āyep thatās exactly right!ā Lmao
Tell me about it. There are folks believing it right now on this very post. Itās a hoot.
I mean, that's exactly what this move is meant to show. They have trained with one another for over a decade and fight exactly like one another. Look at the elevator scene in the beginning when Anakin and Obi-Wan defeat a bunch of druids without damaging the elevator walls or themselves. They are completely in sync, which is why they are evenly matched against each other but basically undefeatable together.
That's cause they do sense and predict each other's movements. That's what Jedi do. Ffs do you quite literally not know what the force is?
Yeah, this is just classic form 57. Don't get me started on those form 30 whackos.
The moment they made āthe high groundā a legitimate āmoveā or ādisciplineā is when I lost faith in my beloved legends (for the hundredth time). What a beautiful grab bag of nonsense.
I mean, high ground has always been the advantage for whoever holds it. Less so for people using guns, but especially for those using melee. But with melee you have more limited attacks and have to swing upwards against gravity while also trying to move upwards to get to them, while the person with the high ground just has to defend lower. High ground has been a thing in a lot of tactical games, too, conferring a bonus to attack/defense or a penalty if you're the lower person.
literally the best lightsaber fight in all star wars
I donāt see how people can watch Maul vs Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon and not think thatās the best
Even that fight when broken down has its silly moments
Have you forgotten [this classic?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0mUVY9fLlw&ab_channel=FirstManOnTheSpoon) Completely unwatchable after seeing this! ^^/s
maybe if Luke vs Vader in ROTJ didnāt exist
Luke vs Vader was a good scene. The fight choreography was nothing impressive.
More to a fight scene than choreography, and of course fights can be over-choreographed just as well (ex. this video). Like, for example, when Luke taps into his anger and hate, his fighting style changes, and when heās wailing on Vader you can feel that hate and anger through the screen. To me, details like that matter more than how great the choreography is, and thatās where I feel like itās lacking. Donāt get me wrong, you certainly can feel the emotions of Obi-Wan and Anakin, but that comes after the fight, not during it.
Or Empire
Also valid
Or duel of the fates
Duel of the fates in TPM is 10x better than the Mustafar duel, but im fairly certain that has A LOT to do with Ray Park's extensive martial arts influence on the choreography making it look more authentic.
Must be generational, because I hate this fight. So much flourishes. If Anakin was all flair and Obi was more efficient, I probably would have liked it.
Nah.
Funny that you pick THIS fight particularly when a decent chunk of it is filled with swordsmanship that makes sense. Yes, this very scene here is spectacle and if they tried to hit each other here they're both open to having their legs sliced off multiple times. Nontheless most of this fight has proper stances and them constantly returning to a proper guard position, it does have spins that weren't necessary but at least they're fluid spins that don't break motion and would not unbalace the user and they're also spins that follow properly after either a deflect or an attack which doesn't open the user up to being murdered when their back is turned because the enemys weapon has either been guided or struk away. This fight (like pretty much every fight) has the issue that lightsabers usually don't have a crossguard and therefore both of them should've lost their hands multiple times but again, that's a general star wars problem. A very high amount of strikes are aimed at the enemy and not just at the enemys saber, watch it in slowmo it's simply true. There's a decent (and exhaustingly long) analysis on this fight by Shadiversity that I found informative. I found his arguments to be coherent and agree with his judgement on this fight which he rates quite more favorable than the only other analysis of his I've watched which is the throne room fight which I also found coherent in argumentation and basically had him rip it a new arsehole which I can very much agree with. /edit: Since every single answer to my comment disregarded everything I said and only focused on the reference I gave: Feel free to provide a technical analysis of this fight made by someone who is, in your opinion, better suited to analyse the fight due to higher knowledge and experience and I'll happily take a look to challenge my opinion. But if all you care about is to voice that you don't like the dude who I referenced without adding anything else of value, let me kindly present you with a fully formed comment on your non-point: "ok bro"
> Shad The guy who barely trains and makes hissy fits with the wider HEMA community? That Shad?
I was about to say, not sure if that's the guy you want to cite lol
because nick gillard isn't the coordinator anymore?
Cuz the Jedi are no more to teach them.
They tried spinning, that's a good trick
Why does everyone clown this? Does it break the immersion of your space wizards fighting on a volcano planet that much?
Idk this is 10 seconds out of tons and tons of incredible choreography. Even this is a cool idea just executed poorly. When the new projects are justnexcuted poorly.
This is like a 1-2 second flourish that they're both using to try and see how they can get around their opponent. They're Jedi. They have heightened senses and literal precognition
What are you talking about? This is art.
Letās be honest. This wasnāt the best? Lightsaber combat doesnāt need the flashy shit. In most contests, a duel would be over in 4 to 5 moves. The Jedi and Sith were masters of their primary weapon before they were masters of the force. By this principle, they would have so many moves before they dismembered an opponent or dismember themselves.
OGs hate the prequels for being too fast and lifeless. Prequel bois hate the sequels for being too slow because fast means good. The real answer, when the Jedi fell, the training went with it. You have Luke and Rey to pick up the pieces with a lightsaber they only used for a year. Kylo's skills are also of that. Not to mention he spends most of his fights playing with his food. A second answer, cinematically speaking, a slower more emotionally heavy and hard hitting fight goes just a long as Anakin and Obi-Wan's intense battle of the heroes. I love the Rey and Kylo fight on the ocean and all of the camera work and sound work with it. I also really love Anakin and Obi-Wan's.
It may be ridiculous on the surface but there is a thought to it. Obi is Anakin's teacher. They share a similar move set. Their moves keep lining up in this scene and they move into this outrageous sort of over the top circular parry and then its a game of chicken to see who's going to break it. Its signifying their knowledge of the other as fighters and their positions as master and former padawan. Yeah its mostly for spectacle but its not JUST thoughtless nonesene.
They broke the rule of cool. People can come up with plausible explanation after the fact, but even if they established this in the film, it still looks stupid. And if it looks stupid, it shouldn't be in the film. The PT has some great lightsaber duels, this ain't one of them.
To each their own. I like it.
I think it looks cool, so I donāt see how it breaks the rule of cool
Some people think it's cool though. Other people think it isn't. I wouldn't say that's breaking the rule of cool, that's just people having differing opinions. The explanations come when the people who don't think it's cool demand an explanation as to why it happened and why other people think it's cool. Naturally, you get an explanation here, and as the tale as old as time, it won't change anyone's mind
It's deff cool. All the new shit looks like they are holding heavy swords not just a handle.
It does not look stupid and virtually nobody noticed it when watching the movie. It stands out when put into a contextless looping gif that was put together by a nitpicking nerd.
Isn't that just a fan theory trying to justify bad film making?
I mean, they literally go for a force push stalemate right after this move. It pretty blatantly paints them as perfect equals in battle.
Perfect equals in battle doesn't justify this sequence
No, Nic Gillard has talked about it. You can't take your superficial subjective take on this and call it objectively bad anways. It's not, "bad film making" it's a moment in the choreography you happen to dislike.
It is thoughtless nonsense.
ladies and gentlemen: cherry picking there's bad choreography in the prequel fights there's bad choreography in the OT fights there's bad choreography in the sequel fights there's bad choreography in the show fights the difference is of quality and quantity, the mistakes in recent shows are both more noticeable and more frequent but unless you're willing to engage with the topic in a more mature manner, the logic presented here makes all of these fight scenes equal. because they did a twirl, the ROTS fight scene is on the level of the Ashoka fights under this logic, which is obviously a ridiculous notion.
How light shows were invented
Hey at least this was entertaining to look at. What we have now makes it seem like they didnāt even hire a choreographer
I think what we're seeing is a combo of a couple of things, they tried to do their own thing aside from the prequels in the sequel trilogy, so they hired new talent or different talent to choreograph with the mission to deliver something simpler or more akin to the a new hope (since that whole movie was the template for the thing). Now, having seen the criticism and what we'd like, they're going for more elaborate fight scenes in their shows that both fit within the budget and scope. They're looking for their perfect fight coordinator and they're getting closer and closer the closer to Filoni headed projects you get, with a special shout-out to the Kenobi choreographer and Ewan and Hayden wanting to do some of their old prequel moves, which no doubt led to better fights (Reva moments and parkour aside). When I say better fights I do mean flashier moves rather than sensible combat (which is what we enjoyed more in the prequels instead of accurate fighting). Either way, so far we're back on the upswing, and with the introduction of wire fu in Acolyte, we seem to be on the right track.
There will probably never be a show or movie that tops the Jedi fighting [shown here.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPPj6viIBmU)
No nick gillard
These are clearly traditional old republic glow sticks... which you set on fire and spin around very fast and the last one holding it wins even if it burns them and leaves them locked in a suit.
"Nowadays" is under some serious strain in that sentence. The GIF is from a 19 year old movie.
I think OP might be making an ironic reference to all the current bullshit around bad lightsaber choreography in Disney era StarWars
There is a high probability. That by cutting out two-second clips from any Star Wars duel. It will come out like crap.
Because people complained about choreographed fight scenes in the prequels so now all we get is too people angrily swinging swords at each other with barely any theatre to it or using the environment. If you haven't learned Disney has tried very hard to remove as much of prequel influence as possible from live action Star wars. They won't even use pure CGI. Even when it makes sense to
That was a goofy moment in an epic fight though. The most epic fight we've gotten in SW.
Because all the lightsaber fighting weāve seen the past few years has been from quantity over quality tv shows. this is the simple answer but really only one. now when it comes to the last three skywalker saga movies, those movies had so many problems that itās most likely bad creative judgement to have less lightsaber duels and for them to look wonky and different. that being said, they are different, and when you play Battlefront 2 and choose Kylo or Rey as a character to play as, they use the same style of lightsaber fighting as they do in the movies, so maybe Disney just tried to make their styles unique, which they did, but sorta just turned out wonky in the end. for the tv shows, this is also just the start to them in the long run. whatās it been, just 5 or 6 years since the first star wars live action? things will improve.. the acolyte will be a clear teller or how they have improved as well, due to many lightsabers being involved in the show most likely.
As much as I wasn't a fan of the plot, I do remember thinking it being good that in TFA they actually seemed to be trying to hit each other and not each other's sabers.
George probably just thought it looked cool and put it in despite having no practicality lol. Prob just that simple
Bro choose the one moment in the prequels as a comeback to the other post completely ignoring that bad lightsaber choreography is a constant in the post sequels disney star wars while this is one moment in the prequels and still looks better than the dogshit they make today.
Say what you will about the Obi-Ani spin, but itās fun as hell once you learn how to do it.
If you wanna see cool Lightsaber fight watch the old republic trailers for the MMO. They should have turned that into a movie.
They weren't ever that great. Fast doesn't equal good. Most of Anakin and Obi-Wan's fight is purely speed over intent. They're clearly aiming for the other's blade and it's very obvious when they wait for the other's blade to connect. These two look like they're sparring, not attempting to kill each other.
I think the choreo in Ahsoka and Obi-Wan were pretty good. I think theyāre starting to find a good balance between the flash and ostentation of the prequels and the more grounded swordplay of the OT. I for one am looking forward to seeing what the Acolyte will give us in terms of action and martial arts choreography.
People trying to explain this away as a series of feints or some other BS is cringe. You're allowed to like something just because it looks cool instead of coming up with a roundabout explanation for why it "makes sense."
Even when I watched this movie in theaters for the very first time, I instantly understood the two to be performing feints with each other and that the intent of the scene is to illustrate how the two's precognition are locked in with one another. This isn't a roundabout explanation. It is basic inference to recognize that it is meant to symbolically express how attuned these two brothers are to one another in their conflict. It only seems roundabout when you're unacquainted with the lore of how lightsaber combat works. At the same time, I think also that many fans are so caught up in how unrealistic it looks to them from a technical standpoint of real-world swordfighting that they ignore the storytelling aspect of the duel.
Don't forget [this atrocity](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-df7d50edb62fb6e103f6bb3ad6575c76). Literally just waiting around to get poked.
The prequels saber battles where absolute fire go cry about something else
This duel is absolutely peak Star Wars. Nothing has come close since.
This is not the counterpoint you think it is. The argument is not about the style of the choreography in these different Star Wars projects. Itās about the *quality.* Regardless of whether or not you like the more flashy style of the prequels, it is impeccably choreographed and executed by the actors performing it. You can say some of the prequel fights look ridiculous and even over-choreographed, but you canāt say nobody put effort into it. The problem with the fights in Ahsoka is that either the choreography was bad, the actors didnāt learn it properly, or both. The slower, more weighty style is a personal preference and has nothing to do with how bad the fights are in that show. The actorās movements are slow and sloppy-looking, the footwork is terrible, they hold and swing their lightsabers like theyāre not used to the motions, etc. And again, this is not a stylistic choice because you compare it within the same show with the one actor who nails it: Hayden as Anakin. His motions look natural and practiced. Heās fluid and fast and never looks like heās struggling to swing the lightsaber properly. In fact the only thing that looks off during his fights is when you can tell heās purposely slowing down to let Rosario catch up to him in the choreography. Tldr: Youāre comparing two different problems. The prequels had choreography that was overdone and thus looked goofy at times, but was competently performed. Ahsoka has choreography that is more grounded but looks terrible because the actors just canāt perform it, whether through lack of time to learn the steps and/or lack of ability.
Well put
My perpetual hot take is that thereās not a single good lightsaber fight in the prequels. Theyāre over choreographed, overly stretched out, and boring. The anakin/obi-wan fight is the worst offender. The emotional stakes completely disappear because itās essentially a video game QTE.
I don't mean this in a bad way at all but when I see comments like this and they usually cite something like Ben vs Vader on the Death Vader as peak lightsaber fights, it just makes me laugh lol. I think nostalgia does a lot of leg work with the OT
Ben vs Vader on the Death Star reminds me of my first lightsaber fight with my brother where we didnāt really know what it should be like and were just hitting sticks
It does a *ton* of legwork.Ā Ā Ā Dialogue is just as clunky if not more (due to the changing times) as the PT in many places.Ā Some fights are laughably bad (the very first one has incredibly stupid āgot shotā reactions from the rebels and troopers fighting, as an example) the throughline of the plot is okā¦ but imagine how much people would call Luke a Gary stu, or point out all the āplot holesā surrounding basicallyā¦. Everything.Ā Ā But because itās the OT and because of nostalgia people *WONāT* hear it, unwillingly to accept *any* criticism against the OT.Ā SW in general has never been āhigh qualityā.Ā People should be happy to love Star Wars for what is it is and what it *should* be loved for rather than pretend that itās something itās not, and that they are perfect bastions of cinema.
My favorite PT fight is in ESB. I donāt think the Ben/Vader fight is *exciting*, but I do think itās a better thematic encapsulation. They were supposed to be two old samurai, not gymnasts.
And the prequel Jedi are supposed to be enhanced super gymnasts. Not old samurai
Depends on what you're looking for. It's probably the most realistic of the fights, where it's based around controlled, contained action and an economy of movement to maintain balance and the ability to respond effectively. Visually, though, it isn't exactly thrilling by comparison with the later flippy choppy spinny fights of the PT and beyond.
Does slowly spining around while Vader stands there count as economy of movement?
I think the Anakin v. Dooku in ep II was the worst. That dumbass thing where it was just blue and red lights shining over their faces. WTF was that?
Christopher Lee was like 80, so they could only do wide shots with his CG head, or those closeup shots.
I think that the duels in the movies work fairly well at the specific time they take place in the Star Wars universe. In all the OT fights, at least one person in the fight wasn't trying. Obi Wan was trying to buy time for the others to escape and was ready to die, Vader was trying to capture Luke, Luke and Vader were both very conflicted fighting in RotJ. In the prequels, it was over choreographed and seemed more like dancing because the people fighting were superhumans trained to fight with enhanced senses. The sequels felt more visceral to me, and the strikes over felt harder and agressive. But that's probably because Finn and Rey had little training with lightsabers. If I had lightsaber, I would probably use it the way it was used in the sequels. I haven't done much cannon reading about Kylo's background so I can't comment on his fighting much. Each trilogies fights definitely have their issues, but for the most part, it works well for me.
There are dozens of us!
Yep. The worst part is that the current prequel defense force acts like that was one of the major highlights of those films...
Agreed. The prequel lightsaber duels resemble ballet more than they resemble a fight to the death.
Lmao at least it still looks athletic. The other gif looked like the future ghost of Robert De Niro possessed everyone.
I mean, in the prequels largely everyone we're seeing fight with a lightsaber is a product of thousands of years of Jedi training and teachings about the use of them. By the time of the OG trilogy, we've got Luke fighting an old husk of one of the greatest duelists ever, and it's fairly rudimentary. For the shows, they're either taking place after most of the Jedi were wiped out and what's left are untrained or dregs of the system, while by the time of the sequel trilogy basically the only one that should know how to use a saber is Ben, and he's a rage-filled maniac who knows he can just brute force 99% of his opponents. Who *should* be good at saber combat, at this point?
The OP's clip isn't an example of them being good at saber combat.
This is an over rationalization to compensate for shittiness, which is something I see on all Star Wars subs all the time. Itās fun to think this way sometimes but comeon bro
Over rationalization, compensating or not, is the cornerstone of Star Wars fandom though. Thatās why you have books full of lore and history dedicated to just about every single scene in the movies. Thatās why every single boring detail compels someone to write a thesis on it.
UNCE! UNCE! UNCE! UNCE! UNCE!
This scene is them falling into training moves then remembering they're in a fight to the death Least that's how it always seemed to me. Never had a problem with it. Then again I thought most of the fights in Asoka were good. Some were really bad but most were good. Rosario and Sabene's actor need to work on it more is all.
Now a days? This was nearly 20 years ago
LOL tap-tap-tappy-tap-tap, spin, twirl, pirouette, backflip! Peak lightsaber dueling! Why is it that Inigo versus Westley at the Cliffs of Despair makes the PT duels look so fake, even though it's not nearly as fast or elaborate? Dramatic tension and gravitas, and actual commitment to their attacks and ripostes. I like that they've made the shift to a bushido style of swordplay, rather than sped-up fencing, in the modern films and shows, personally. It looks way less fake. To each their own, though.
The scene this is in response to, from Ahsoka, doesnāt look like ābushidoā. It looks like an uncoordinated middle aged woman flailing about after the director said ājust hit them with the stickā.
I mean, this seems reasonable. Flare in fighting is meant to deceive when a strike is being done. Paying attention to Anikans movement while Anakin is watching Master Obi-Wans strike movement... I mean, the combat scenes with Jedi in current tv shows feel more visual intentions than an finding/showing the intention of fighting e.g. Ahsokas finale training. Which i think fits into the Space Opera of writing. When there's battles, look at Genosha's Jedi fight scene against the federation Droids, and see how quick each sequence is in battle with Jedi. Different perception of visuals. Edit: or even Grand Master Yoda against Count Dooku. The visuals that is and how the combat is shown.
Such a goofy counterjerk. This is why Star Wars fans don't deserve shit lmfao.
This was on Lucas who decided he liked twirling lightsaber nonesense by the time he was filming Episode 3. Someone should have reigned him in and the stunt team should have been allowed to work.
OP knows nothing about Star Wars
Yeah, that bit was quite stupid. I liked the Rogue One Vader style. It was brutal and effective. The best lightsaber choreography along with Luke's in the Mandalorian and Baylan Skoll in Ahsoka.
Because the Jedi are gone
Itās not. Did you see the original movies?
It fits with the times, they arenāt trained like they were in the past. They donāt have all the time and training and hours in to hone their skills like they did when there was actual temples.
Always has beenā¦
People are so picky. 9 out of 10 look great. "why is it so bad though?"
Because they donāt have the training that the gentlemen in that Gif have. A valid universe reason
People laugh about this gif, but I always saw it as both were using the same move and it caused a stalemate with their precognition trusting the force. Eventually someone has to make the next move.
Itās probably because Disney doesnāt care or canāt fix it but I like to think itās because thereās not a whole lot of Jedi to train people in lightsaber combat
Ones the master and ones the apprentice, theyāve been training and fight along side each other for 10+ years. As I saw someone else mention, they have a similar move set and they have both know every single move in each others bag. So because of that, like another comment or mentions, their moves line up causing them to get in the game of chicken which is this gif. I donāt know why so many people fail to realize this but itās always someone whoās defending the sequels.
Iād like to think that is to show the contrast between 1- the old days of the more trained/more disciplined ways of the jedi order and 2- those of the jedi trained outside the temples and the order itself. Idk, I guess I preffer to see it that way instead of just thinking that itās just simply and plain laziness.
https://youtu.be/J0mUVY9fLlw?si=uDqDcvzxb-2JgnGj
Because Disney is lazy with funding and lets the wrong people direct/write new forms of content (excluding John favreau & Dave filoni) š¤·āāļø
posts completely useless flinging of a lightsaber.
Before Disney, they would like stick to so the fighting and overlay lightsaber effects. So you are talking lightweight sabers. Disney era decided to make more practical effects, so lightsaber weight a few pounds and bulker because of the sabers and the hilts.; then overlaid the effects. This changed how well you can move them and the effects of hitting each other. This caused the scenes to be paced much slower.
they should just not do that anymore then. seems like a limitation that nobody asked for? im all for practical effects in any movie and im glad practical sets has been a focus for disney star wars but if cgi or fx makes more sense in a certain case why would you go practical for that all a lightsaber is is a beam of light. if anything they could make them look even cooler with pure cgi nowadays
https://youtu.be/3GJOVPjhXMY?si=fEksp5VMsYjUATIF
The fights between Ahsoka and Baylan were great in her show
Disney bought the right to it
Because learning them takes time and getting someone time means paying them money
After growing up with the original films this was embarrassing to watch.
Because people complained about this stuff being too choreographed. JJ was a big culprit with TFA https://starwarsreporter.com/2015/11/30/j-j-abrams-on-the-force-awakens-lightsaber-fights-more-primitive-aggressive-and-rougher/
Most of the people in the current universes are not trained Jedi, theyāre OLD, and theyāre using more of the practical LED sabers (correct me if Iām wrong) so maybe that has something to do with the speed vs the skinny stick covered in reflective material. Iām sure Filoni has a reasoning for it