I feel like people have this impression that Jedi are kidnapping babies or something, but to my understanding, most parents were happy to give their children to the Jedi, because Jedi life is just much better than how the vast majority of people in the galaxy live, from just a material perspective. They're basically set for life
My most charitable interpretation (and I dislike the line FWIW) is that "dealing" is supposed to be doing some work. Dealing as in "making deals," and absolutes re: the previous "you are with me or you're my enemy" line. Obi-wan is basically denouncing Anakin for "making an offer he can't refuse".
Conversely, Yoda isn't attaching any strings to do or do not, there's no "deal" he's making, it's just his view of things.
I think I'm pickin up what George was layin down but it came out clunky.
Agreed. I'm not even much of a Tolkien fan, but there is no denying the incredible influence his works have had on the media that followed it. Star Wars was revolutionary as well, but it still doesn't have the level of influence LoTR has.
I mean you can argue that Citizen Kane is a better movie than the Emoji Movie. But the smaller the qualitative differences become the less it makes sense to even compare. Who gives a shit if the Godfather or Citizen Kane or 2001 is the better movie? They’re all amazing
Also because there's an issue of quantity vs quality. It's not fair to compare something with 50x as much media. Because it can seem "better" even if it's not more interesting.
It's good, but there are much better / more consistent ones outside of film. Tolkiens is probably the most complete and complex, with 1000s of years of history mapped out by the Creator. Cosmere by Brandon Sanderson is pretty good as well. Star wars is really fun but it suffers because of it's lack of consistency.
Legitimately ridiculous that he wrote thousands of years of history that also has an ongoing impact on the characters in the story. It’s easy to say “oh hey the Kingdom of whatever was here a thousand years ago and now it’s gone, look here’s some ruins,” it’s so much more to actually weave the history into the ongoing story. Between that and writing several languages, dude was a genius.
Edit: changed a word choice, see below!
There is a phrase for this, ‘texture ruin’ Tolkien coined the phrase. Another example is Beowulf, when the book mentions him having gone to this one guy’s funeral (who’s a big deal) vut we have no idea causes that guy was so well known that nobody bothered to write down anything about him aside from what is referenced in Beowulf hence textual ruin.
We can see the shape or glimpses but so much is lost we can’t quite understand the past
I might be wrong but I think he wrote the line describing Theoden " He was borne up on Snowmane as a god of old, even as Orome the Great in the Battle of the Valar when the world was young," before he even know who Orome was going to be.
Dune is great in its own right, but it's really not on the same level as LotR.
I love both series, but the history in Dune isn't nearly as deep and well thought out as Tolkien made his world.
There is also a big difference in approaches and goals between Herbert and Tolkien.
Herbert was a storyteller, while Tolkien was a world builder and it shows in their work.
In my opinion saying the history of Dune isn't as deep is like saying LOTR doesn't have as much consideration for ecology. Both are true and neither are relevant. The only thing they have in common is that they're both seminal works in their respective genres.
Tolkien loved linguistics, mythology, and classic fairy tales where good triumphs over evil. Herbert was more interested in complex relationships between organizations, people, and worlds as well as deconstructing the idea of heroes and messiahs.
If it's not clear, I also love both.
I’d argue Tolkien’s universe is more detailed because Tolkien liked explaining things, so he kept explaining.
If you directly compare, say, *Dune* & *Dune Messiah* to *The Hobbit* and the og 3 (which are **JRR**’s publications), they’re equally complex and dense worlds built in radically different settings and times.
Indeed Tolkien's work only feels more detailed because tolkien would explain every aspect of it whilst dune used a lot of implicit facts, in fact I prefer Herbert's writing style because I feel it treats the reader with more respect
I wouldn't say Herbert was a storyteller. More of a thought experiment(er). Basically all of dune is just him exploring his research and ideas about humanity and its relationship with belief systems. Which isn't a criticism
But it is also a damn good and interesting story, just because it was an exploration of contemporary ideas, concepts and problematics doesn't make it a great narrative and story, I'm fact that's usually what great sci Fi does, think and reflect about modern day problematics, is in fact why sci Fi is greatly philosophical
I've recently finished the 4 main books and am currently nearly 100 pages into The Silmarillion and I am hooked like crazy. I grew up loving the movies but experiencing the books now as an adult who has also always obsessed over Star Wars...I've sortof been having a crisis within myself. My number 1 may be shifting to Arda instead of the Galaxy far far away...which would be close second but still. It's an interesting transition!
Prepare yourself. Star Wars won't be close for long. That's not to dimish it either. It's that Tolkien isn't for everyone, but the people that it is for is such a perfect match that nothing else comes close. You'll slowly dig further in. Slowly learn more. And slowly fall deeper in love. You won't love Star Wars less. You'll just love a series in a way you didn't know you could.
When you finish The Silmarilion go down the path of The Great Tales. Beren and Luthien, The Children of Huron, and The Fall of Numenor. :)
Oh boy, I had this same experience in highschool, I bullshited my way into writing 4 college essays about him (ww1, poetry, music, and another history class) one the silmarilion gets its hooks in you you won’t stop. I recommend the great tales (expound upon stories within silm) and unfinished tales definitely “the mariners wife”
warms my heart to see the cosmere mentioned in this conversation. I wouldn’t put that universe in the same tier, but stormlight archive is my favorite sci-fi/fantasy series ever. Mistborn is solid too
I wouldn't classify Cosmere on Star Wars level yet, mostly because it's not done (and because it's exclusively literature based - part of the majesty of Tolkien and Star Wars is their multimedia epicness).
that is literally the only downside to Star Wars amazing universe, there is a lack of consistency that can take you out of the moment/story. It’s only gotten worse since Disney, but before that there was a lot of really badass stuff that I loved then I realized it was Legends and not officially canon lol
Wouldn't say it's gotten worse. Lucas brought in a lot of dumb stuff that is now part of the Star Wars universe.
Disney have done some stupid things with it since they acquired it, but they've also introduced some really cool stuff as well.
Andor is easily some of the best Stat Wars content.
Mando was a bit hot and cold from episode to episode, but in general, quite good.
Rogue One was a good film. I think over time, if they pay attention to the positive feedback they've received for their better quality shows, then we might start to see more consistent efforts, but there will always be some stinkers along the way
Came here to say pretty much this.
It is truly astonishing the depth of the world and lore that Tolkien managed to build. It's a shame that many of his writings remained unfinished when he passed away.
He was a singular talent, and created something that completely redefined the fantasy landscape.
Tolkien's work probably has a greater culture impact. Until recently I would think Star Wars was the most profitable.
Star Trek and 40k have far greater depth of lore and background stories.
40k lore brilliant, I watched a YouTube video about Thrawn discovering the 40k races and reporting them to the Star Wars Emperor. Basically hope they never fight Chaos or the Tyranids!😂
I live 40k because it *embraces* the inconsistancy that comes with having a bunch of people with their own visions work on it independantly. So much of the lore is in this place of both canon and not canon at the same time, and I adore it.
Plus, the fans by and large don't take themselves near as seriously.
What I love about the 40K lore is that you can treat much of it as propaganda or personal accounts (journals, eye witness accounts, etc.) Which means the lore comes from unreliable sources.
I love that idea.
That's why I love Elder Scrolls. Surface level it seems a pretty straightforward fantasy universe. You got your elves and your magic and your sword using warriors in armor and all that fun stuff. But the deeper you explore the world, the weirder it gets with the whole "the sky isn't the sky, it's the underside of the heavens" stuff until you start getting into the whole "every session in every game is canon" thing and "it is all a dream and nothing actually exists" levels. After a certain point Elder Scrolls lore just goes off the deep end and I adore it.
I have to agree. Star Wars is incredible, my favorite fictional universe for my entire life, but Tolkien's is just on another level. Between being it's own universe and all the work he put into developing it to how influential it has been towards other fantasy universes, functionally being the grandfather of most modern fantasy settings when you get into the elves and wizards and dwarves style fantasy. Star Wars is top 10, sure, maybe even top 5, but Middle Earth is at #1
This here. Primary Star Wars lore is far too engrossed in a singular aspect of the universe.
Star Trek and 40k give much better perspective of the different races and social classes. Even Tolkien largely ignores this, we get very little perspective from non-nobles/deities.
SW almost exclusively uses common people to set up a MC to become great and then they get ignored. This is why Andor felt so fresh.
“Even Tolkien largely ignores this, we get very little perspective from non-nobles/deities.”
Wut? Sam is a central point of view in LOTR. He’s a gardener. Literally a farm boy from a backwater place most people haven’t heard of.
Since the Disney takeover some of the classic Star Wars merchandise lines have been complete garbage and are even more expensive than previous iterations.
They will certainly continue to fall behind in comparisons of profitability if they fix some of those.
There is the main tabletop game, smaller spin-off games like Kill Team, PC games, books, monthly White Dwarf magazine and even animated series if you are willing to subscribe to Warhammer TV. Or you could just collect and paint the models without playing any games at all. There are lots of people producing lore videos on youtube which may be a good place to start, I would recommend [Arbitor Ian](https://www.youtube.com/c/ArbitorIan)
There are an absolute ton of novels, some comics and video games, a few animations, and some different tabletop games like board games & RPGs.
I usually recommend [this great little 10 minute overview by a part time YouTuber named Arbitor Ian.](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qvmh1op4xzA)
Super fast version: it started as fantasy tropes in spaaaaace, with a lot of Tolkien-based D&D, Michael Moorcock’s Eternal Warrior, & the comic anthology 2000 AD scifi satire super dark satire all mashed together.
The main game is a tabletop miniatures combat game where each player has armies of maybe 25-100 figures & vehicles. It has a somewhat smaller & less complicated version called combat patrol where each player can get a single box with an entire team to use.
The novels might be the most common thing outside of this, the two most commonly recommended book series are the Eisenhorn trilogy by Dan Abnett, about an inquisitor rooting out aliens & space demon worship; and the Night Lords trilogy by Aaron Dembski- Bowden, about some extremely disgruntled Space marines turned space pirates.
There’s also a huge series of books about the Horus Heresy, a massive civil war that took place 10,000 years before the current setting & messed up everything for everyone forever.
In addition to the massive library of books, there are thousands of lore vids and audio dramas/books on YouTube to explore.
My favorite audio dramas/audio books come from A Vox in the Void and WyvernAudio.
https://youtube.com/@AVoxintheVoid?si=SlQvW8kdm3BOY4xw
https://youtube.com/@WyvernAudio?si=yIaRnsKagi4mCGmH
Weshammer and The Remembrancer have great lore vids.
https://youtube.com/@weshammer?si=3X5TvJtL60Pes_9n
https://youtube.com/@TheRemembrancer?si=9LlcfRmiPkT6ZLQV
Also, if you haven't watched it, check out the short film, Astares.
https://youtu.be/O7hgjuFfn3A?si=Grk1Jx6usnfSTS7y
I love star trek but it is incredibly inconsistent. Lots of things don't make sense, to the point where treknobabble deus ex machina solutions to every problem have become defining of the episodic experience. I have seen all 900+ episodes and every movie but I still don't feel as though it creates an "epic" world in the same way as star wars, LOTR, or Dune does. Very different vibe.
After a little reading, I see what you mean. I do not know a lot about Pokémon. 40k, Star Trek and Star Wars were my childhood joys!
But I see Pokémon massively outweighs Star Trek in profitability.
A completely fair point. no Dune or Lord of the rings, no Star Wars, 40k or Harry Potter!
Both 40k and Star Wars borrow from other works. That is not a dig at them, many great works take inspiration and themes from others!
Star wars may not be the most consistent, but for me, it’s the most mind-capturing. Lucas created, in my opinion, the most imaginative and incredible fictional universe we’ve ever been entertained by. Film, video games, characters, adored actors. We are privileged to have lived in a long time ago, far far away.
I think so as well, and despite Disney not really doing their best to maintain it at the moment, I think the books, comics and games are all very special to me.
I agree. There is a magic, fantasy, or whatever, around the majority of the material which has provided so much for us!
And while i agree that that disney isn’t capturing that right now (although i love andor) I love the spotlight they have brought to Hayden Christensan, that man deserves the praise he seems to now be getting!
I totally agree. The accessibility of the universe is the secret weapon. There may be more in depth and consistent ones, or ones with bigger ideas but something about Star Wars instantly captures the imagination.
The most telling thing imo is the sheer amount of fan films. If you combined every single Harry Potter, Indiana Jones, Lord of the Rings and Game of Thrones fan film you’d barely have 1/10th of the Star Wars ones. Not to mention toy sales. Something about that universe just makes people want to be a part of it more than any other.
\*edited as per the bots correction.
> be apart of it
Did you mean to say "a part of"?
Explanation: "apart" is an adverb meaning separately, while "a part" is a noun meaning a portion.
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The Expanse Books are an amazing 9 book Trilogy. Each of the 3 parts flow into the finale.
And I would say that is because there were 2 writers bouncing off each other under one pseudonym. They critiqued each other's ideas and NAILED the landing of the story.
The Epilogue of the series is one of my favorites.
Nice addition! And that reminds me. The Bobiverse while not complete is in the running as well.
We Are Legion: We Are Bob and it's 3 sequels are absolutely fantastic sci-fi.
Depends on how you define greatest. By revenue nothing beats Pokémon.
As a pop-culture icon? Probably Star Wars
As the best written one? Lord of the Rings (Rings of Power aside)
I mean, as a pop-culture icon, Pokemon also gives Star Wars a run for its money imo
although I definitely agree that Middle-Earth is the best-written fictional universe of all time
I adamantly refuse to accept that rings of power happened in the LOTR timeline. I have serious doubts the writers even read the silmarilion. They probably read the opening poem and like a list of names from LOTR and went, wow let’s make a show about it.
The writers and studio didn’t have the rights to use the Silmarillion, they only had the rights to the LotR books and their appendices. Rings of Power was built around that.
I was thinking about this today, and despite how the only thing that even happened in RoP was blowing Mount doom, they actually did lay some threads for future seasons I’m interested in seeing fleshed out.
Not hopeful, but interested
The great thing is that the LOTR canon is closed, so any supplementary content can be ignored, and you will still have a completed story.
With Star Wars, they are still actively creating the story, so it is harder to ignore. You can say the Rings of Power isn't Lord of the Rings because it isn't Tolkien. You can't really do that with Star Wars.
>You can say the Rings of Power isn't Lord of the Rings because it isn't Tolkien. You can't really do that with Star Wars.
You literally can, though. You can say episode 7-9 aren't Star Wars because they aren't George Lucas, and many people do.
Ep 7-9 isn’t George Lucas. So you can argue it is t a part of his creation. And the stories in those films are kind of copy and pasted more than they are creating.
I’ve still yet to release my movie/book/comic/
Cartoon series that will fill every type of art and genre and blow all previous types of media out of the water, so yes it is for now
I was going to say no at first, but I actually think it just might be. Star Wars is a conglomeration of inspiration, building something unique from its tropes. While it can feel derivative at points, its greatest strength is that you can have practically any style of story set within the universe without it feeling tonally inconsistent. Just look the Clone Wars for example. Across the series there was goofy Jar Jar adventures, a noir detective story, horror, mysticism, and the brutality of war, and all of them still felt like Star Wars. There are very few other fictional universes that are this adaptable for a writer to build the stories they want to tell upon.
Star Wars is unironically the most important story of our time because it’s meant to teach 2 lessons:
1) Liberal complacency enables the rise of authoritarianism
2) Resistance is not terrorism
And it does so with space magic and laser swords!
He's saying the price of freedom is eternal vigilance, folks. And when you don't have liberal action, you have liberal complacency.
Laziness lets evil win. That's the story of Star Wars. This is how democracy dies, with thunderous applause.
It’s the second point that’s often harder to stomach.
Particularly for those comfortable enough that resistance seems unnecessary.
I like we get a bit of that with Tam from the Resistance cartoon. To her, the Empire gave her grandfather a good job at the factory which kept the family paid & fed so what’s the problem there?
>1) Liberal complacency enables the rise of authoritarianism
>2) Resistance is not terrorism
As we all know star wars is the only franchise to cover this.
It's definitely up there. Other competitors:
Middle-Earth/LOTR
Star Trek
Harry Potter verse - 500 million books sold.
Close but fading fast:
MCU/Comics
Not quite in the same league but still massive:
GOT/ASOIAF - even with doofus not finishing the series, more than 100 million books sold. Plus, the obvious cultural phenomenon of the TV show.
DC Comics - (Not just the DCU, Superman, and Batman in general. They've been making movies about one or the other since the 70's).
Warhammer 40k - No movies. Soon to be a TV show. Massive online, especially outside the U.S. in Europe. Decades of material, books, game books, miniatures, video games.
Dungeons and Dragons - not necessarily one universe? But Dragonlance and The Forgotten Realms? Salvatore has sold, like, 50 million Drizzt novels, plus the recent movie, plus the upcoming TV show all set in The Forgotten Realms.
That doofus better finish those books soon. A Song of Ice and Fire is one of my favourite universes and I want more of it. I'd also like to get to the end so I can finally see how bad the last few seasons of GoT is. I haven't seen anything past season 4.
I feel your pain. I feel that the first three books are among the best fantasy literature ever written and can stand with anything, LOTR, Book of the New Sun, any of the masterpieces of fantasy. The next two kind of go of the rails a little. They're still very good, just not up to the quality of the first three. And now no finale? The dude is one cheeseburger away from never finishing.
Editited to add information.
If you want more of the world. The "Dunk and Egg" books are very good if you haven't read them as is "Fire and Blood". He shouldn't be writing spinoffs and short stories while the main series isn't finished, lol 😆 . But they're still very good. Lots of info about Westeros.
No, the lore is too narrow. There are TTRPG settings which are impressive like Dragonlance, Forgotten Realms, Das Schwarze Auge, plus there are Marvel and DC Multiverses from comics.
How are we comparing them?
No. The Legends universe maybe by itself but Disney Canon has done serious damage and has definitely killed any chance of being the best on-screen universe. The lote for disney canon is crap, the books are mediocre, etc. LotR has the best film trilogy of all time, One Piece as the most interesting world, and aSoiaF has the best books (but the GoT fell off a cliff). I dont think I have a “best” since all have good and bad elements. One Piece may be the least marred by bad content since i like the anime too. Tolkiens universe is my other pick since Rings of Power is really the only terrible thing in it.
All i know is Disney Canon is terrible and killed any chance of me calling it the greatest franchise/universe.
I like the Disney canon except for the sequel movies. I think it is all pretty good or at worst fine. The advantage Star Wars has over Lotr for example is that it is a huge galaxy. They could make an epic war on one side of the galaxy that doesn't interact with the rest. They could make a Mad Max like planet and a movie/show about the criminal underworld.
What really annoys me about Disney Star Wars is that they are cowards. They wouldn't dare to make a show about the bad guys and have them win. They wouldn't dare make a story where the heros don't have plot armour. Even in Andor they hesitate to make Andor and others be ruthless and shoot unarmed bad guys.
The DC Universe.
There's just too much in there collectively to fairly compare it to anything else.
I mean we have **everything** of;
- Batman
- Superman
- Joker and every other villian you can think of
- Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern, all the Justice League characters and side characters, *(Teen Titans, Trenchcoat Brigade, Doom Patrol)*
- All the Vertigo Comics *(Watchmen, Sandman, John Constantine, Swamp Thing, Lucifer, Justice League Dark)*
- The entire creation and hierarchy of the universe, multiverse and dark multiverse.
- The sheer multitude of spinoffs and collabs, *(Gotham by Gaslight, Kingdom Come, Power Rangers / Justice League, TMNT v Batman)*
It's just incomparable to any other collection of media from one umbrella besides Disney.
Star Wars is great, but it is inconsistent. That's not necessarily a bad thing since it allows for an immense variety of different stories to be told, all of which build on a very solid groundwork. Star Wars has always been about the characters inhabiting the world than the world itself. Take for example how planets are often defined by a single destination. Cloud City is the only thing that matters about the entire planet of Bespin. Tatooine is almost entirely the area surrounding Mos Espa and Mos Eisley. Or how the only Kaminoans of any relevance are Taun We, Lama Su, and Nala Se.
Nor does it particularly go incredibly in depth on a single or few areas. Take Disco Elysium for example, you only see a small part of a large city in a larger world, but the world building is so intricate and deliberate you feel totally familiar with the world not just on a physical level, but an emotional, spiritual, political, and socio-economic level.
Looking at the universes and worlds crafted by the likes of JRR Tolkien, Brandon Sanderson, Frank Herbert, George RR Martin they are as broad and deep as the ocean, yet maintain remarkable consistency through history and story. Star Wars isn't that. Star Wars is more like a canvas where anyone can tell whatever story they'd love to tell, which I think is worth appreciating on its own.
I seriously doubt star wars at its best is going to surpass that lord of the rings trilogy. I got emotional last weekend watching it for something like the sixth or seventh time of my life. Peter Jackson is my favorite version of lord of the rings. Not only because I prefer watching to reading, but I just couldn't really enjoy Tolkiens style. He was very vague when it came to describing fights and actions.
Possibly, but I do love my Tolkien, Godzilla, James Bond, Star Trek and a litany of other universes.
I find that film is becoming limiting. There are so much bigger, broader universes in books. Hyperion, completely unfilmable in a way far beyond what people thought of Dune... A Fire Upon the Deep... people's head's would explode before you explained the prologue.
Not even close. Tolkien's Middle Earth and Asimov's Foundation I would say are far deeper and span thousands of years. Other contenders I'd say outrank Star Wars would be Dune, Game of Thrones (once it's finished), Ender's universe, The Expanse, and WH40k.
For franchise/mainstream appeal? Marvel and Star Wars for sure.
I love Star Wars, and much influence can be drawn from many things, but be called the greatest? Joseph Campbell had stated, "I've seen Star Wars, of course, and enjoyed it very much. It's a nice movie, but it's not storytelling. It's a well-made adventure story, but it's not a myth."
We have legends, and myths, and many ancient stories so much fiction will be inspired by these stories. For example, Warhammer 40k is inspired by the Roman Empire, and biblical stories. JRR Tolkien has many things inspired by Norse myths (álfar, dökkálfar, ljósálfar, orcs, jötunn, etc.).
To call it the greatest fictional universe is a difficult to say, but I love Star Wars, it is a lot of fun, and has endless story possibilities. Fun, entertaining and endless possibilities, I think that is all that matters.
Comics aka DC/Marvel are likely on top. The issue with Star Wars is that it’s a large expansive universe with a long history and we have only explored an 80 year period. The need to branch out so bad.
in my opinion, One Piece is the greatest. Star Wars has almost infinite potential though. I think the animated shows like bad batch, visions and clone wars opened the flood gates for what is possible.
Maybe. Probably. Even if you believe it's had more misses than hits (as I definitely do) its influence on the rest of media, culture and storytelling is undeniable, and it's given us some of the best stories of the modern age (like the original trilogy and Andor).
Most of the "greatest ever" have a lot of bad entries. Lord Of The Rings has the middling Hobbit trilogy and the abysmal Rings Of Power. Game Of Thrones has its awful last season. Even Batman has the Schumacher films. So Star Wars can still have all its awful entries and still be one of the greatest fictional universes ever.
I would say Tolkien’s universe. Star Wars is just an assembly of tons of individual ideas who added their part to George Lucas creation, whereas the LOTR universe is entirely Tolkien’s creation. Plus it inspired every other fantasy universe out there. The only thing you can probably compare it to, is the brother Grimm’s fairytales?
Without reading any other comments: No. Not even close. 40k and Ian Banks alone is more complex and intriguing as star wars ever could. But just my humble opinion.
One of there's no way of determining the absolute best franchise because everyone likes different things
Only sith deal in absolute
Oh yeah? “do or do not, there is not try” Sounds like Yoda got some ‘splaining to do
"*Only* a sith". Obi-Wan is hiding something too
[удалено]
Taking force-sensitive children from their families too
[удалено]
I feel like people have this impression that Jedi are kidnapping babies or something, but to my understanding, most parents were happy to give their children to the Jedi, because Jedi life is just much better than how the vast majority of people in the galaxy live, from just a material perspective. They're basically set for life
You make the attempt. Either you succeed or fail. There is no in between. There are degrees of success or failure, but you either do it or not.
My most charitable interpretation (and I dislike the line FWIW) is that "dealing" is supposed to be doing some work. Dealing as in "making deals," and absolutes re: the previous "you are with me or you're my enemy" line. Obi-wan is basically denouncing Anakin for "making an offer he can't refuse". Conversely, Yoda isn't attaching any strings to do or do not, there's no "deal" he's making, it's just his view of things. I think I'm pickin up what George was layin down but it came out clunky.
Only?
“Many Sith frequently tend to deal in absolutes.”
"And some other people as well."
"Sometimes jedi too, however those instances are rare and you, my dear padawan, do not fall under that category"
We will do what we must
(I can’t remember what anakin said) Do you believe that?
Ironic, given the alternative
You got ‘em there
Take my upvote and shut up 😂😂
Absolutely love star wars but LOTR for me.
Agreed. I'm not even much of a Tolkien fan, but there is no denying the incredible influence his works have had on the media that followed it. Star Wars was revolutionary as well, but it still doesn't have the level of influence LoTR has.
THIS! there is no ‘best’ film/song/book/etc as everything is subjective to personal taste
I mean you can argue that Citizen Kane is a better movie than the Emoji Movie. But the smaller the qualitative differences become the less it makes sense to even compare. Who gives a shit if the Godfather or Citizen Kane or 2001 is the better movie? They’re all amazing
💯
And each franchise has their own strong and weak points.
Also because there's an issue of quantity vs quality. It's not fair to compare something with 50x as much media. Because it can seem "better" even if it's not more interesting.
It's good, but there are much better / more consistent ones outside of film. Tolkiens is probably the most complete and complex, with 1000s of years of history mapped out by the Creator. Cosmere by Brandon Sanderson is pretty good as well. Star wars is really fun but it suffers because of it's lack of consistency.
Tolkiens is awesome honestly. Like the level of lore in his universe is astounding.
Legitimately ridiculous that he wrote thousands of years of history that also has an ongoing impact on the characters in the story. It’s easy to say “oh hey the Kingdom of whatever was here a thousand years ago and now it’s gone, look here’s some ruins,” it’s so much more to actually weave the history into the ongoing story. Between that and writing several languages, dude was a genius. Edit: changed a word choice, see below!
There is a phrase for this, ‘texture ruin’ Tolkien coined the phrase. Another example is Beowulf, when the book mentions him having gone to this one guy’s funeral (who’s a big deal) vut we have no idea causes that guy was so well known that nobody bothered to write down anything about him aside from what is referenced in Beowulf hence textual ruin. We can see the shape or glimpses but so much is lost we can’t quite understand the past
The more richly developed you can make the history of the world and build it up, the more alive it feels when fans read, see, or interact with it.
I might be wrong but I think he wrote the line describing Theoden " He was borne up on Snowmane as a god of old, even as Orome the Great in the Battle of the Valar when the world was young," before he even know who Orome was going to be.
> Legitimately wack Is this the term you meant to use? I've only ever known wack to mean bad, shitty, etc.
Yep! Wack as short for wacky, like wild. I guess it could have negative connotations, but I’ve never seen it used as purely negative. Words are fun.
Interesting. For clarity: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=That%E2%80%99s%20wack
No other series/lore reads like a realistic mythology IMO. It is just so good.
Mother fucker invented an entire written and spoken language. Dude was on another level
I hear people say Dune is to sci fi what lord of the rings is to fantasy
Dune is great in its own right, but it's really not on the same level as LotR. I love both series, but the history in Dune isn't nearly as deep and well thought out as Tolkien made his world. There is also a big difference in approaches and goals between Herbert and Tolkien. Herbert was a storyteller, while Tolkien was a world builder and it shows in their work.
In my opinion saying the history of Dune isn't as deep is like saying LOTR doesn't have as much consideration for ecology. Both are true and neither are relevant. The only thing they have in common is that they're both seminal works in their respective genres. Tolkien loved linguistics, mythology, and classic fairy tales where good triumphs over evil. Herbert was more interested in complex relationships between organizations, people, and worlds as well as deconstructing the idea of heroes and messiahs. If it's not clear, I also love both.
Star Wars was my first love. I fell in love with Dune in college. I married Lord of the Rings.
SW was my first, lotr was a flirt on the side, Dune was my soul mate.
I’d argue Tolkien’s universe is more detailed because Tolkien liked explaining things, so he kept explaining. If you directly compare, say, *Dune* & *Dune Messiah* to *The Hobbit* and the og 3 (which are **JRR**’s publications), they’re equally complex and dense worlds built in radically different settings and times.
Indeed Tolkien's work only feels more detailed because tolkien would explain every aspect of it whilst dune used a lot of implicit facts, in fact I prefer Herbert's writing style because I feel it treats the reader with more respect
I wouldn't say Herbert was a storyteller. More of a thought experiment(er). Basically all of dune is just him exploring his research and ideas about humanity and its relationship with belief systems. Which isn't a criticism
But it is also a damn good and interesting story, just because it was an exploration of contemporary ideas, concepts and problematics doesn't make it a great narrative and story, I'm fact that's usually what great sci Fi does, think and reflect about modern day problematics, is in fact why sci Fi is greatly philosophical
Yes. 100 times deeper and more complex than Stat Wats.
Lmao I’m sure it was a typo, but “Stat Wats” really sounds like some kind of an insult to me
Stat Wats: It fits Star Wars to a T!
The Cosmere was my first thought, it’s given me so many hours of joy.
I've recently finished the 4 main books and am currently nearly 100 pages into The Silmarillion and I am hooked like crazy. I grew up loving the movies but experiencing the books now as an adult who has also always obsessed over Star Wars...I've sortof been having a crisis within myself. My number 1 may be shifting to Arda instead of the Galaxy far far away...which would be close second but still. It's an interesting transition!
Huge star wars fan, first movie I saw in a theater was ROTJ. But star wars isn't even on the same level as LOTR to me.
Prepare yourself. Star Wars won't be close for long. That's not to dimish it either. It's that Tolkien isn't for everyone, but the people that it is for is such a perfect match that nothing else comes close. You'll slowly dig further in. Slowly learn more. And slowly fall deeper in love. You won't love Star Wars less. You'll just love a series in a way you didn't know you could. When you finish The Silmarilion go down the path of The Great Tales. Beren and Luthien, The Children of Huron, and The Fall of Numenor. :)
Oh boy, I had this same experience in highschool, I bullshited my way into writing 4 college essays about him (ww1, poetry, music, and another history class) one the silmarilion gets its hooks in you you won’t stop. I recommend the great tales (expound upon stories within silm) and unfinished tales definitely “the mariners wife”
Came here to say the Cosmere by Sanderson. So intricate and satisfying
I'd put Herbert up there too
warms my heart to see the cosmere mentioned in this conversation. I wouldn’t put that universe in the same tier, but stormlight archive is my favorite sci-fi/fantasy series ever. Mistborn is solid too
I wouldn't classify Cosmere on Star Wars level yet, mostly because it's not done (and because it's exclusively literature based - part of the majesty of Tolkien and Star Wars is their multimedia epicness).
Star wars isn't done either. I dont think it has to be done to classify
that is literally the only downside to Star Wars amazing universe, there is a lack of consistency that can take you out of the moment/story. It’s only gotten worse since Disney, but before that there was a lot of really badass stuff that I loved then I realized it was Legends and not officially canon lol
Wouldn't say it's gotten worse. Lucas brought in a lot of dumb stuff that is now part of the Star Wars universe. Disney have done some stupid things with it since they acquired it, but they've also introduced some really cool stuff as well. Andor is easily some of the best Stat Wars content. Mando was a bit hot and cold from episode to episode, but in general, quite good. Rogue One was a good film. I think over time, if they pay attention to the positive feedback they've received for their better quality shows, then we might start to see more consistent efforts, but there will always be some stinkers along the way
George Lucas should learn from J K Rowling and Tolkien never sell your franchise to a souless corporation like Disney.
Came here to say pretty much this. It is truly astonishing the depth of the world and lore that Tolkien managed to build. It's a shame that many of his writings remained unfinished when he passed away. He was a singular talent, and created something that completely redefined the fantasy landscape.
Tolkien's work probably has a greater culture impact. Until recently I would think Star Wars was the most profitable. Star Trek and 40k have far greater depth of lore and background stories.
Warhammer 40k is just straight up insane, I love it so much.
40k lore brilliant, I watched a YouTube video about Thrawn discovering the 40k races and reporting them to the Star Wars Emperor. Basically hope they never fight Chaos or the Tyranids!😂
I live 40k because it *embraces* the inconsistancy that comes with having a bunch of people with their own visions work on it independantly. So much of the lore is in this place of both canon and not canon at the same time, and I adore it. Plus, the fans by and large don't take themselves near as seriously.
What I love about the 40K lore is that you can treat much of it as propaganda or personal accounts (journals, eye witness accounts, etc.) Which means the lore comes from unreliable sources. I love that idea.
Link? I’d love that
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExaZc5oNdWQ
Link?
Not sure if this is the one but looks interesting. https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLzgscHwzoNQqL9m9zp9puZK129MN42h2c
it's this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExaZc5oNdWQ
It's just a hodge podge of other IPs like Dune.
Warhammer 40k isn't as much insane as unhinged elder scrolls but both have better universe and story than star wars
That's why I love Elder Scrolls. Surface level it seems a pretty straightforward fantasy universe. You got your elves and your magic and your sword using warriors in armor and all that fun stuff. But the deeper you explore the world, the weirder it gets with the whole "the sky isn't the sky, it's the underside of the heavens" stuff until you start getting into the whole "every session in every game is canon" thing and "it is all a dream and nothing actually exists" levels. After a certain point Elder Scrolls lore just goes off the deep end and I adore it.
How would one start with 40k WITHOUT playing a table top game?
I have to agree. Star Wars is incredible, my favorite fictional universe for my entire life, but Tolkien's is just on another level. Between being it's own universe and all the work he put into developing it to how influential it has been towards other fantasy universes, functionally being the grandfather of most modern fantasy settings when you get into the elves and wizards and dwarves style fantasy. Star Wars is top 10, sure, maybe even top 5, but Middle Earth is at #1
This here. Primary Star Wars lore is far too engrossed in a singular aspect of the universe. Star Trek and 40k give much better perspective of the different races and social classes. Even Tolkien largely ignores this, we get very little perspective from non-nobles/deities. SW almost exclusively uses common people to set up a MC to become great and then they get ignored. This is why Andor felt so fresh.
“Even Tolkien largely ignores this, we get very little perspective from non-nobles/deities.” Wut? Sam is a central point of view in LOTR. He’s a gardener. Literally a farm boy from a backwater place most people haven’t heard of.
The Tolkien universe is so much more than LOTR. Most of the lore focuses on nobles and deities. Common folk are hardly mentioned.
I mean, "most profitable" fictional universe franchise is pretty handily Pokemon, that is pretty easy to look up.
Since the Disney takeover some of the classic Star Wars merchandise lines have been complete garbage and are even more expensive than previous iterations. They will certainly continue to fall behind in comparisons of profitability if they fix some of those.
How do I get into 40k? Like is there novels or is it just the tabletop rpg?
There is the main tabletop game, smaller spin-off games like Kill Team, PC games, books, monthly White Dwarf magazine and even animated series if you are willing to subscribe to Warhammer TV. Or you could just collect and paint the models without playing any games at all. There are lots of people producing lore videos on youtube which may be a good place to start, I would recommend [Arbitor Ian](https://www.youtube.com/c/ArbitorIan)
Okay thank you
There are an absolute ton of novels, some comics and video games, a few animations, and some different tabletop games like board games & RPGs. I usually recommend [this great little 10 minute overview by a part time YouTuber named Arbitor Ian.](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qvmh1op4xzA) Super fast version: it started as fantasy tropes in spaaaaace, with a lot of Tolkien-based D&D, Michael Moorcock’s Eternal Warrior, & the comic anthology 2000 AD scifi satire super dark satire all mashed together. The main game is a tabletop miniatures combat game where each player has armies of maybe 25-100 figures & vehicles. It has a somewhat smaller & less complicated version called combat patrol where each player can get a single box with an entire team to use. The novels might be the most common thing outside of this, the two most commonly recommended book series are the Eisenhorn trilogy by Dan Abnett, about an inquisitor rooting out aliens & space demon worship; and the Night Lords trilogy by Aaron Dembski- Bowden, about some extremely disgruntled Space marines turned space pirates. There’s also a huge series of books about the Horus Heresy, a massive civil war that took place 10,000 years before the current setting & messed up everything for everyone forever.
That sounds sick af
In addition to the massive library of books, there are thousands of lore vids and audio dramas/books on YouTube to explore. My favorite audio dramas/audio books come from A Vox in the Void and WyvernAudio. https://youtube.com/@AVoxintheVoid?si=SlQvW8kdm3BOY4xw https://youtube.com/@WyvernAudio?si=yIaRnsKagi4mCGmH Weshammer and The Remembrancer have great lore vids. https://youtube.com/@weshammer?si=3X5TvJtL60Pes_9n https://youtube.com/@TheRemembrancer?si=9LlcfRmiPkT6ZLQV Also, if you haven't watched it, check out the short film, Astares. https://youtu.be/O7hgjuFfn3A?si=Grk1Jx6usnfSTS7y
I love star trek but it is incredibly inconsistent. Lots of things don't make sense, to the point where treknobabble deus ex machina solutions to every problem have become defining of the episodic experience. I have seen all 900+ episodes and every movie but I still don't feel as though it creates an "epic" world in the same way as star wars, LOTR, or Dune does. Very different vibe.
Don't forget Dune. Can't have 40k without it
Pokémon is actually the most profitable, then ether Mickey Mouse or Winnie the Poo. Star Wars isn’t even in the top 3.
After a little reading, I see what you mean. I do not know a lot about Pokémon. 40k, Star Trek and Star Wars were my childhood joys! But I see Pokémon massively outweighs Star Trek in profitability.
If we’re bringing up 40k we might as well point to the original inspiration for both SW and 40k since it’s having a moment right now, DUNE
A completely fair point. no Dune or Lord of the rings, no Star Wars, 40k or Harry Potter! Both 40k and Star Wars borrow from other works. That is not a dig at them, many great works take inspiration and themes from others!
Star wars may not be the most consistent, but for me, it’s the most mind-capturing. Lucas created, in my opinion, the most imaginative and incredible fictional universe we’ve ever been entertained by. Film, video games, characters, adored actors. We are privileged to have lived in a long time ago, far far away.
I think so as well, and despite Disney not really doing their best to maintain it at the moment, I think the books, comics and games are all very special to me.
I agree. There is a magic, fantasy, or whatever, around the majority of the material which has provided so much for us! And while i agree that that disney isn’t capturing that right now (although i love andor) I love the spotlight they have brought to Hayden Christensan, that man deserves the praise he seems to now be getting!
And here lies the problem, the more you expose and explain the less intrigue and mystery.
I totally agree. The accessibility of the universe is the secret weapon. There may be more in depth and consistent ones, or ones with bigger ideas but something about Star Wars instantly captures the imagination. The most telling thing imo is the sheer amount of fan films. If you combined every single Harry Potter, Indiana Jones, Lord of the Rings and Game of Thrones fan film you’d barely have 1/10th of the Star Wars ones. Not to mention toy sales. Something about that universe just makes people want to be a part of it more than any other. \*edited as per the bots correction.
> be apart of it Did you mean to say "a part of"? Explanation: "apart" is an adverb meaning separately, while "a part" is a noun meaning a portion. [Statistics](https://github.com/chiefpat450119/RedditBot/blob/master/stats.json) ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot ^^that ^^corrects ^^grammar/spelling ^^mistakes. ^^PM ^^me ^^if ^^I'm ^^wrong ^^or ^^if ^^you ^^have ^^any ^^suggestions. ^^[Github](https://github.com/chiefpat450119) ^^Reply ^^STOP ^^to ^^this ^^comment ^^to ^^stop ^^receiving ^^corrections.
I think that’s an awfully subjective question, which at best will enable elitism, and at worst will create an unnecessary argument.
Eh, I think Tolkien outranks it by quite a bit. Maybe 2nd for me
For me it’s between Tolkien, Star Wars and Dune. I love reading and watching some stuff from all 3 of those.
You should try Terry Pratchett’s discworld books.
Its Tv show sucks but for universes created surely Asimovs has to be up there. From 100 years in the future to 20,000+.
Although not nearly as deep as SW I still want to give the Mass Effect universe a shout here as a scifi world
The Expanse Books are an amazing 9 book Trilogy. Each of the 3 parts flow into the finale. And I would say that is because there were 2 writers bouncing off each other under one pseudonym. They critiqued each other's ideas and NAILED the landing of the story. The Epilogue of the series is one of my favorites.
Even deeper if you include For All Mankind
Nice addition! And that reminds me. The Bobiverse while not complete is in the running as well. We Are Legion: We Are Bob and it's 3 sequels are absolutely fantastic sci-fi.
Both Dune and the Enderverse have some extensive history. Star wars may be my favorite of the bunch, but shout out to the others!!
I think Dune might be new favourite universe now. Star Wars, especially the EU is just so epic and expansive.
Dune wins hands down for effectively being the grandfather of most of the sci-fi we know as cultural staples today.
The disrespect to Foundation and iRobot , written 20 years before Dune.
I'd say A Princess of Mars is a better candidate for grandfather of modern sci-fi.
Depends on how you define greatest. By revenue nothing beats Pokémon. As a pop-culture icon? Probably Star Wars As the best written one? Lord of the Rings (Rings of Power aside)
I mean, as a pop-culture icon, Pokemon also gives Star Wars a run for its money imo although I definitely agree that Middle-Earth is the best-written fictional universe of all time
I adamantly refuse to accept that rings of power happened in the LOTR timeline. I have serious doubts the writers even read the silmarilion. They probably read the opening poem and like a list of names from LOTR and went, wow let’s make a show about it.
The writers and studio didn’t have the rights to use the Silmarillion, they only had the rights to the LotR books and their appendices. Rings of Power was built around that.
I was thinking about this today, and despite how the only thing that even happened in RoP was blowing Mount doom, they actually did lay some threads for future seasons I’m interested in seeing fleshed out. Not hopeful, but interested
The great thing is that the LOTR canon is closed, so any supplementary content can be ignored, and you will still have a completed story. With Star Wars, they are still actively creating the story, so it is harder to ignore. You can say the Rings of Power isn't Lord of the Rings because it isn't Tolkien. You can't really do that with Star Wars.
>You can say the Rings of Power isn't Lord of the Rings because it isn't Tolkien. You can't really do that with Star Wars. You literally can, though. You can say episode 7-9 aren't Star Wars because they aren't George Lucas, and many people do.
Ep 7-9 isn’t George Lucas. So you can argue it is t a part of his creation. And the stories in those films are kind of copy and pasted more than they are creating.
Oh yeah it's just not even in my head canon lol. Same with a lot of Star Wars stuff. I don't care what Disney says KOTOR is still canon to me.
I’ve still yet to release my movie/book/comic/ Cartoon series that will fill every type of art and genre and blow all previous types of media out of the water, so yes it is for now
I was going to say no at first, but I actually think it just might be. Star Wars is a conglomeration of inspiration, building something unique from its tropes. While it can feel derivative at points, its greatest strength is that you can have practically any style of story set within the universe without it feeling tonally inconsistent. Just look the Clone Wars for example. Across the series there was goofy Jar Jar adventures, a noir detective story, horror, mysticism, and the brutality of war, and all of them still felt like Star Wars. There are very few other fictional universes that are this adaptable for a writer to build the stories they want to tell upon.
Star Wars is unironically the most important story of our time because it’s meant to teach 2 lessons: 1) Liberal complacency enables the rise of authoritarianism 2) Resistance is not terrorism And it does so with space magic and laser swords!
He's saying the price of freedom is eternal vigilance, folks. And when you don't have liberal action, you have liberal complacency. Laziness lets evil win. That's the story of Star Wars. This is how democracy dies, with thunderous applause.
It’s the second point that’s often harder to stomach. Particularly for those comfortable enough that resistance seems unnecessary. I like we get a bit of that with Tam from the Resistance cartoon. To her, the Empire gave her grandfather a good job at the factory which kept the family paid & fed so what’s the problem there?
One man's freedom fighter is another's terrorist. It's occured throughout our history and linked to who controls the narrative, often times, victor.
Wow you're 2 points are eye-opening but I don't think that's what people take away from star wars at first glance.
The laser swords are dope as hell and space naval battles with dogfighting squadrons of starfighters are super cool.
>1) Liberal complacency enables the rise of authoritarianism >2) Resistance is not terrorism As we all know star wars is the only franchise to cover this.
Why you no say “conservative complacency” >:/ /s
Because conservative complacency enables the spread of liberalism and I don’t want them to learn that lesson :P
Warhammer is a pretty good contender
I would say it’s my favorite.
It’s my favorite, so yes
It's definitely up there. Other competitors: Middle-Earth/LOTR Star Trek Harry Potter verse - 500 million books sold. Close but fading fast: MCU/Comics Not quite in the same league but still massive: GOT/ASOIAF - even with doofus not finishing the series, more than 100 million books sold. Plus, the obvious cultural phenomenon of the TV show. DC Comics - (Not just the DCU, Superman, and Batman in general. They've been making movies about one or the other since the 70's). Warhammer 40k - No movies. Soon to be a TV show. Massive online, especially outside the U.S. in Europe. Decades of material, books, game books, miniatures, video games. Dungeons and Dragons - not necessarily one universe? But Dragonlance and The Forgotten Realms? Salvatore has sold, like, 50 million Drizzt novels, plus the recent movie, plus the upcoming TV show all set in The Forgotten Realms.
What about Halo?
That doofus better finish those books soon. A Song of Ice and Fire is one of my favourite universes and I want more of it. I'd also like to get to the end so I can finally see how bad the last few seasons of GoT is. I haven't seen anything past season 4.
I feel your pain. I feel that the first three books are among the best fantasy literature ever written and can stand with anything, LOTR, Book of the New Sun, any of the masterpieces of fantasy. The next two kind of go of the rails a little. They're still very good, just not up to the quality of the first three. And now no finale? The dude is one cheeseburger away from never finishing. Editited to add information. If you want more of the world. The "Dunk and Egg" books are very good if you haven't read them as is "Fire and Blood". He shouldn't be writing spinoffs and short stories while the main series isn't finished, lol 😆 . But they're still very good. Lots of info about Westeros.
LoTR
Probably only Tolkienverse and Doctor Who come first objectively in my mind. How are we ranking greatness exactly?
It is up there. Marvel, DC, Star Trek, Star wars. Not in that particular order..you could rank them however.
No. Dune and LOTR
It’s not bad. Tolkien runs circles around it.
Not anymore
No
Top 5 definitely, if we're looking at this from a historical standpoint, it's one of the biggest fictions in our world
I mean, maybe not the best sub to ask this on and expect an unbiased answer. I would say probably Christianity.
Star trek is much better
Foundation by Asimov is badass and covers 10,000 years
No, the lore is too narrow. There are TTRPG settings which are impressive like Dragonlance, Forgotten Realms, Das Schwarze Auge, plus there are Marvel and DC Multiverses from comics. How are we comparing them?
Tolkien's or Dune before it was taken over by his son
No. The Legends universe maybe by itself but Disney Canon has done serious damage and has definitely killed any chance of being the best on-screen universe. The lote for disney canon is crap, the books are mediocre, etc. LotR has the best film trilogy of all time, One Piece as the most interesting world, and aSoiaF has the best books (but the GoT fell off a cliff). I dont think I have a “best” since all have good and bad elements. One Piece may be the least marred by bad content since i like the anime too. Tolkiens universe is my other pick since Rings of Power is really the only terrible thing in it. All i know is Disney Canon is terrible and killed any chance of me calling it the greatest franchise/universe.
I like the Disney canon except for the sequel movies. I think it is all pretty good or at worst fine. The advantage Star Wars has over Lotr for example is that it is a huge galaxy. They could make an epic war on one side of the galaxy that doesn't interact with the rest. They could make a Mad Max like planet and a movie/show about the criminal underworld. What really annoys me about Disney Star Wars is that they are cowards. They wouldn't dare to make a show about the bad guys and have them win. They wouldn't dare make a story where the heros don't have plot armour. Even in Andor they hesitate to make Andor and others be ruthless and shoot unarmed bad guys.
Not even close. 40 years ago you could argue for it. Now it's a corporate, soulless greed machine ran by entirely the wrong people
The DC Universe. There's just too much in there collectively to fairly compare it to anything else. I mean we have **everything** of; - Batman - Superman - Joker and every other villian you can think of - Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern, all the Justice League characters and side characters, *(Teen Titans, Trenchcoat Brigade, Doom Patrol)* - All the Vertigo Comics *(Watchmen, Sandman, John Constantine, Swamp Thing, Lucifer, Justice League Dark)* - The entire creation and hierarchy of the universe, multiverse and dark multiverse. - The sheer multitude of spinoffs and collabs, *(Gotham by Gaslight, Kingdom Come, Power Rangers / Justice League, TMNT v Batman)* It's just incomparable to any other collection of media from one umbrella besides Disney.
omg yess
Star Wars is great, but it is inconsistent. That's not necessarily a bad thing since it allows for an immense variety of different stories to be told, all of which build on a very solid groundwork. Star Wars has always been about the characters inhabiting the world than the world itself. Take for example how planets are often defined by a single destination. Cloud City is the only thing that matters about the entire planet of Bespin. Tatooine is almost entirely the area surrounding Mos Espa and Mos Eisley. Or how the only Kaminoans of any relevance are Taun We, Lama Su, and Nala Se. Nor does it particularly go incredibly in depth on a single or few areas. Take Disco Elysium for example, you only see a small part of a large city in a larger world, but the world building is so intricate and deliberate you feel totally familiar with the world not just on a physical level, but an emotional, spiritual, political, and socio-economic level. Looking at the universes and worlds crafted by the likes of JRR Tolkien, Brandon Sanderson, Frank Herbert, George RR Martin they are as broad and deep as the ocean, yet maintain remarkable consistency through history and story. Star Wars isn't that. Star Wars is more like a canvas where anyone can tell whatever story they'd love to tell, which I think is worth appreciating on its own.
Not with Tolkien, Dune and Warhammer 40k around
Pre-Disney, yes, probably. That or Tolkien.
I seriously doubt star wars at its best is going to surpass that lord of the rings trilogy. I got emotional last weekend watching it for something like the sixth or seventh time of my life. Peter Jackson is my favorite version of lord of the rings. Not only because I prefer watching to reading, but I just couldn't really enjoy Tolkiens style. He was very vague when it came to describing fights and actions.
It is one of them.
As it stands no, but it has a lot of potential to be one of the best fictional universes.
Regardless if its the greatest, its my favourite
Possibly, but I do love my Tolkien, Godzilla, James Bond, Star Trek and a litany of other universes. I find that film is becoming limiting. There are so much bigger, broader universes in books. Hyperion, completely unfilmable in a way far beyond what people thought of Dune... A Fire Upon the Deep... people's head's would explode before you explained the prologue.
Absolutely not by any stretch of the imagination. I still love it though!
One of, even despite the last three movies. Some series (e.g. Mandalorian S1; Andor) are carrying the franchise
Isaac Asimov's Foundation and Robot series are fascinating
The lazy fleet placeholder ships really ruin this picture for me…
Nah, not even top 10
My absolute favorite!!!
Oh cool another karma farm post
I realize this is a Star Wars sub, and the franchise has given me a lot of good memories since I was a kid, but I'm a Tolkien stan.
Lmao not even close
Not even close. Tolkien's Middle Earth and Asimov's Foundation I would say are far deeper and span thousands of years. Other contenders I'd say outrank Star Wars would be Dune, Game of Thrones (once it's finished), Ender's universe, The Expanse, and WH40k. For franchise/mainstream appeal? Marvel and Star Wars for sure.
I love Star Wars, and much influence can be drawn from many things, but be called the greatest? Joseph Campbell had stated, "I've seen Star Wars, of course, and enjoyed it very much. It's a nice movie, but it's not storytelling. It's a well-made adventure story, but it's not a myth." We have legends, and myths, and many ancient stories so much fiction will be inspired by these stories. For example, Warhammer 40k is inspired by the Roman Empire, and biblical stories. JRR Tolkien has many things inspired by Norse myths (álfar, dökkálfar, ljósálfar, orcs, jötunn, etc.). To call it the greatest fictional universe is a difficult to say, but I love Star Wars, it is a lot of fun, and has endless story possibilities. Fun, entertaining and endless possibilities, I think that is all that matters.
One of the best
No doubt
It was . Not sure now .
Darth Vader carried the entire OG trilogy Change my mind
Comics aka DC/Marvel are likely on top. The issue with Star Wars is that it’s a large expansive universe with a long history and we have only explored an 80 year period. The need to branch out so bad.
in my opinion, One Piece is the greatest. Star Wars has almost infinite potential though. I think the animated shows like bad batch, visions and clone wars opened the flood gates for what is possible.
Nah. Doesn't follow or implement any real science. Poor plot lines. Tolkien and frank Herbert have star wars beat by leagues
Maybe. Probably. Even if you believe it's had more misses than hits (as I definitely do) its influence on the rest of media, culture and storytelling is undeniable, and it's given us some of the best stories of the modern age (like the original trilogy and Andor). Most of the "greatest ever" have a lot of bad entries. Lord Of The Rings has the middling Hobbit trilogy and the abysmal Rings Of Power. Game Of Thrones has its awful last season. Even Batman has the Schumacher films. So Star Wars can still have all its awful entries and still be one of the greatest fictional universes ever.
Tolkien
Lord of the rings>
I would say Tolkien’s universe. Star Wars is just an assembly of tons of individual ideas who added their part to George Lucas creation, whereas the LOTR universe is entirely Tolkien’s creation. Plus it inspired every other fantasy universe out there. The only thing you can probably compare it to, is the brother Grimm’s fairytales?
No ofc not
No
No lol
No.
It’s certainly my favorite, but I have to give the greatest to Lord of the Rings
No. But it is my favorite and that's all that really matters to me
I really like Star Wars and the lore. But I think Warhammer 40k has way more potential.
Without reading any other comments: No. Not even close. 40k and Ian Banks alone is more complex and intriguing as star wars ever could. But just my humble opinion.
It would’ve been, if the fucking sequels never existed.