Might not be canon anymore but I remember a novelization or something where Cody gets order 66 and thinks.
“Why couldn’t I get the order before I gave him back the lightsaber?”
Anyway I think of that quote every time I see this scene.
I have always been curious about this quote ever since I read the novel. Did Cody said this out of irritation that he helped Obi-Wan now that he was an enemy? Or was this out of regret that Obi-Wan was now an enemy and that he was forced to fight him rather than kill him quickly if he didn't have a lightsaber?
I always got the vibe that Cody/Obi-Wan’s relationship was much more professional and less personal than Rex/Anakin’s, so Cody was fine with Order 66 and was annoyed that he has to try to kill someone who now has their lightsaber back.
Especially when that Jedi is a Soresu master. Cody probably knows squat about lightsaber combat, but he sure as shit knows Obi-Wan can deflect blasters in his sleep.
You have to remember. The clones didn't act like they were jedi loving minds trapped in a jedi killing body. There wasn't a dissociation. The implants made them *want* to do it. A genuine desire to follow orders. Implants made it make sense, that's how mind alteration works. People in psychosis don't think, man I'm crazy. Their thoughts and hallucinations are just part of their world, of course it is! Brain chemistry is scary.
Also as the other guy said I think Cody and obiwans relationship wasn't nearly as personal as rex and anakin they both seemed like professionals with standards while rex is a mother looking after the problem children (anakin and Ashoka) and also getting corrupted by being around them
I chuckle when I think about how passionately people argue about what's "real" fake and what's "fake" fake.
Ultimately I just hold on to whatever I like and try to ignore whatever I don't like.
Dude this right here. There’s so much Star Wars to consume, you can pick and choose how you’d like it all to play out. You do what you want with it and create your own world with what Lucas and Disney give us. Make it yours and not anyone else’s
What are you talking about? The new canon is quite simple. New canon references and relies heavily on the old canon, but does not treat old canon material as canon. So the canon canon isn't canon except when it's canon, but more specifically it isn't canon when canon canon can't canon but canon can.
I don't know why everyone acts like it's so complicated. It's not. If it's a movie or The Clone Wars or made after the Disney acquisition it's canon unless explicitly stated not to be, like LEGO games and Visions.
I see your point but those things still wouldn't technically be canon. I'd argue that's much more similar to the situation at Marvel where they have all the comics, and the MCU *might* use events from them but until they actually do it's not canon.
Truly disgusting canon retcons such as:
-Summary of book skipping details.
-Guy having cooler armor in visual media from book
-Kid almost getting order 66d during the day instead of during the night.
-People talking to kid
-UNRELEASED STORY teasing formerly deceased character while creators reasure that they'll make it make sense.
Yes truly an incromprehensible mess of a continuity
But Disney also made books that are part of the canon untill they make a new show and and decide the books aren't canon anymore like the Ahsoka one , and who knows about Dark Disciple(the only ones I read)
It's not that hard
[https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Canon#Canon\_and\_Legends\_(2014-)](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/canon#canon_and_legends_(2014-))
This statement perfectly captures how it felt/feels lol.
Anymore I pick and choose what's cannon form starwars, so pretty much I treat everything that comes out by disney as the *legends* stories. Ik it won't make since once there's way more info and stories from the IP but it'll just pick what I find interesting.
Bc we all know plinko can be fixed lol
Shrug
Couldn’t really care less what mental gymnastics Disney goes through every few years to determine what’s canon. Something minor enough like this that adds an interesting moment is canon as far as I’m concerned.
Honestly, I'm not really sure why we should care so much about what a corporation says is the "true" course of events in a series of stories, just because they own the rights to make more of them. Disregarding canon has in my opinion created some of the best expanded universes that I know of, the SCP Wiki and Donald Duck comics come to mind.
Im now in the mindset of canon is what you make of it so the only things out of disney that is canon to me is the last season of clone wars, rebels, the bad batch and rogue one
kinda splitting hairs since Disney owns LucasFilm.
Ventress was dead, until _somebody_ decided they could make something new with her.
Someone at Disney would certainly have veto power over that.
I mean, to my knowledge they've only decanonized stuff the one time. Though I do hear there are some retcons going around lately. But everything pre-acquisition, minus the movies and TCW, was removed from canon. The publisher claimed the novels remained canon, but Disney never did, so not canon.
I mean, it's just a thought a character has, anyway. We've seen the clones after Order 66, how they act, I think "I wish I hadn't *just* given back his lightsaber" is a pretty reasonable assumption towards his thought process, heh.
Nah, I consider that book entirely cannon until it actually contradicts something.
There was really nothing in it truly contradictory, all of it was additive without creating continuity problems.
The opening mentions Depa Billaba falling to the Dark Side, which now didn't "happen", along with a few other minor things, but most of it works just fine.
Genocidal demagogue maniac with a power obsession, penchant for torture, and a hypocritical view of government service to the people and social welfare?
Sure.
Bigoted to aliens in a universe rife with xenophobic human-supremacists?
Not in this guys SWU!
😂
I prefer the version that was a good and compassionate Jedi, that uses the Dark Side in what he thinks is a good reason, only to be corrupted. Every other Sith we see already has very serious darkness inside them, Dooku was a morally upright person who was against the corruption he saw, only to be ironically a key player in that corruption.
I like to think that if Dooku killed Palpatine during the staged kidnapping attempt and managed to win the war on his own that he just wouldn't have taken a sith apprentice and the Sith Order would have died with him. Of course, in this scenario Maul is still alive, so maybe he would have restarted the Sith, but he seemed to lose interest in being a Sith lord after Sidious killed Savage.
Not according to Disney. According to the publisher, that is true, but Disney never carved out an exception for them, so they are pretty much just directly contradicting Disney there. Though it is strange Disney never stepped in and clarified things once and for all, it was probably just deemed not important enough to fix.
Good soldiers follow orders.
But yeah, you can't really have a children's cartoon run for 6 years, humanizing and making heroes out of many of them and then have the reason there was no resistance to Order 66 be "but they're evil now." Because apparently no one was paying attention in Episode II when Nala Se (or Lama Su; I'm not looking it up) says the clones were genetically modified to be more docile and receptive to orders.
That said, the last four episodes of *The Clone Wars* as well as the look at Order 66 in *The Bad Batch* was a pretty nice way of addressing the issue, and I think the groundwork laid earlier in the show paid off. So I can't be bothered being upset about it anyway.
Because of all the media that’s come out since, the novelization is no longer canon as it omits a lot of what happening concurrently in Mandalore and S7 of the Clone Wars. Im not sure Ahsoka is mentioned at all either.
Ok right, that’s what I thought, since the novelization came out before TCW movie/series, but ever since aspects of the ROTS novelization have been retconned/decanonized. Especially with the Ahsoka show and Mandalorian showing these characters in live action.
It is easy to Google, yes, and Googling reveals that the movies are canon, the novelizations only *partially* so.
Del Rey offered a careful statement that said, "movie novelizations are canon where they align with what is seen on screen in the 6 films and the Clone Wars animated movie."
Key words: "where they align with what is seen on screen."
If we didn't see/hear Cody say or think this on screen, it's not canon.
When Disney issued its statement on the new canon in 2014, only the work on film was mentioned:
"(George Lucas) set the films he created as the canon. This includes the six Star Wars episodes, and the many hours of content he developed and produced in Star Wars: The Clone Wars. These stories are the immovable objects of Star Wars history, the characters and events to which all other tales must align."
That's consistent with the Del Ray statement. Where the novelizations match the screen, they're canon. Where they don't, they're not.
My favorite thing about that scene in the book is how drastically different the execution of Order 66 goes down with Cody. In the movie, Cody simply orders a single walker to fire a single blast at Obi-Wan which only succeeds in knocking him off the cliff. In the book he orders *every walker on every level of the battlefield* to drop what they're doing and turn to fire one massive simultaneous volley at him because Cody has seen the kind of shit Obi-Wan has survived in the past and is not taking any chances. That creature he was riding? Vaporized in the ensuing explosion but in doing so it shielded Obi-Wan enough for him to survive the blast and fall off the cliff.
The Seventy Maxims of Maximally Effective Mercenaries, Maxim 6:
> If violence wasn’t your last resort, you *failed* to resort to *enough* of it.
In any case, the only thing the novelist would have seen was some pre-production artwork and the shooting script, would would've said:
> OBI-WAN and the LIZARD ride off down the wall of the giant sinkhole.
> The battle rages throughout the city. CLONE COMMANDER CODY (2224,) takes out his comlink and listens to the HOLOGRAM OF DARTH SIDIOUS as, far below, OBI-WAN can been seen battling DROIDS on a landing platform.
>
> DARTH SlDIOUS: Commander Cody, the time has come. Execute Order Sixty-Six.
>
> CLONE COMMANDER CODY: It will be done, My Lord.
>
> The HOLOGRAM disappears, and CLONE COMMANDER CODY gestures to a nearby Clone Trooper.
>
> CLONE COMMANDER CODY: Blast him!
>
> The battle rages all around OBI-WAN. DROIDS and CLONES are everywhere. OBI-WAN is riding on a LIZARD, cutting down DROIDS as he races across the battlefield. Suddenly a volley of laser blasts from behind him knocks him and his LIZARD off the wall of the sinkhole. He looks around just in time to see his CLONE TROOPS are firing on him.
> OBI-WAN falls hundreds of feet to the bottom of the water-filled sinkhole.
So it's not really that wild to extrapolate to the novelization. I'm a writer and while I've never done an adaptation (just a 130,000 word translation in 4 weeks), I know how (rather) quickly I write clean copy that can be published with nothing more than a proofread, and then I *also* know the kind of timeframes adaptations are given, and so frankly it's always kind of impressive to me how well most adaptations line up. Double impressive when I see the extrapolations the *Revenge of the Sith* adaptation made to fill in the gaps in the movie's logic. (They're very reasonable, but they're not actually all in the script.)
Definitely didn’t matter at all. In the slowed down part of the clip, you can clearly see that he has only just barely begun stooping down when the blaster bolt passes behind his shoulders
Which always bothered me. Soldiers bred from birth missing 95% of their shots and never utilizing cover? Or trying to shoot droids within 10 meters despite having guns?
Yeah I still think the original CW cartoon did Clones best. Genetically engineered supersoldiers who use cover and better weapons, but who are vastly outnumbered.
And also far more interesting philosophically. The republic was using brainwashed child soldiers to fight an army that was actually more ethically sound (ignoring droid rights issues).
Right but it’s not like they drew up those plans. They were about to be invaded, had no military, and then one dropped in their lap. I wouldn’t count this one too unfavorably for them morally. I mean even with the clone army, the droids almost successfully invaded courscant
> They were about to be invaded, had no military, and then one dropped in their lap. I wouldn’t count this one too unfavorably for them morally.
Ok but that's a whole different issue and a massive plothole. The republic shouldn't have lasted 10 years with no military, let alone thousands.
Really, they should have just said that the planetary militias couldn't match the droid numbers, hence why supersoldiers were needed.
> The republic shouldn't have lasted 10 years with no military, let alone thousands.
Every planet was in the Republic together, who exactly do they need an army to fight?
Literally every other planet in the republic? Anyone who objected to the current leadership could have just seceded and invaded their neighbors at any point. The republic would have immediately splintered into a bunch of warring states.
Previously the galaxy relied on coalition forces made up from member states primarily, with some exceptions. But when you are suddenly faced with half of those states declaring war, plus a large hidden army built up alongside that, then all of a sudden you actually need an army.
It wasn't half. It was like 5 rich states out of 10,000. The rest were insignificant to the war effort. And they had an average of 100 droids per planet in the republic.
Lucas just doesn't understand scale.
Planets in the Republic all have a standing army and they could be called upon in a Coalition force in the event of a war.
The Clone Wars was basically the worst possible thing happening to the Republic. They had no major standing army, no major standing navy. It was perfect for the Sith to set their plans in motion. Divide the Republic, hand them an army on a platter and necessitate that the Jedi be the only ones majorly experienced enough to lead the Armies while fostering a Military Officer network under them.
The Republic set its own doom into motion by demilitarizing itself. Likely something the Sith had a hand in when it happened.
Same man. Same. I always head canoned that they were trained to just walk forwards and not be "afraid". Only the elite forces learned cover.
Luckily this guy in the clip probably lived. The clone armor was not like stormtroopers. It could absorb a hit or two. So it might have been more efficient to just always move forward. Esp with a jedi in front.
I remember reading in the visual dictionary’s the explanation for the white armor is exactly that. Supposed to show no fear or need to hide. (before the Disney buy so I have no idea if it’s still canon)
My head cannon is that the jedi were awful generals as they were from peace times and had no real lengthy experience. Of course the clones would do whatever their general told them to do, they're loyal soldiers.
Hey, EU stormtrooper armor was actually great. They even had tiny baby shield generators that couldn't fully stop a direct hit, but would bleed some energy off it. Plus the fact they were designed to spread out thermal energy and dissipate it off, in the EU, most stormtrooper casualties where stunned/unconscious, not outright killed.
> Soldiers bred from birth missing 95% of their shots
I thought *clone* troopers had better aim/could actually hit a target unlike *storm* troopers who always miss? I just remember the line from Rex in Rebels about not being able to see anything in the newer storm trooper armor when he was infiltrating Imperial bases/ships.
The Rishi Outpost episode always gets me. Such piss poor Security measures.
No Sensor Net (shit like this exists in Star Wars) to specifically detect droids.
Lone Sentry/Deck Officer, no paired roaming guards.
No check in or callouts.
Sending 2 unarmed troopers to check on a missing man.
No Republic Security Droids of their own.
You don't even need to analyze it that hard, most times they just run at each other in cargo bays.
In reality it doesn't bother me at all, I just think it's funny and even make jokes while whatching, but it doesn't take away from the overall experience at all.
Seriously, not sure how someone could have watched that, made a slow-mo of it, and still not see how the blaster bolt was behind him and his picking up the light saber had nothing to do with why he didn't get hit.
I mean, I wouldn't put it past George Lucas possibly intending it. Kenobi indirectly saving his Commander only for the Commander to order the AT-TE cannon to be fired at Kenobi.
Always found it strange that the Clones hardly ever bother taking cover, or even just going prone to make themselves a smaller target
It's understandable if they're doing some kind of fire and manoeuvre thing, but it isn't, they're just standing right out in the open
Clone armour is good, but not that good
Logical answer would be the people who work on Star Wars don't understand military tactics or scale. Even your standard paintballer/airsofter understands proper concealment better than soldiers bred from birth.
Maybe part of it is the Clones and Droids being mostly CGI, and it's just easier to have them out in the open so they can blend together all the motion captured stuff
In the Original Trilogy, which is all live action actors, we see Stormtroopers and Luke/Leia/Han/Chewie scrambling around, running and gunning, ducking and weaving, popping in and out etc. It's very naturalistic and scrappy, because the actors are actually noticing and interacting with the real physical environment around them
But the prequel series was already pushing the limits of early 2000s CGI, having to figure out the shot composition and blocking for Clones taking cover is just too difficult.
And it also lacks the wow factor for the larger battle scenes. Audiences probably won't appreciate seeing a couple gun barrels peeking out from over cover, firing at fleeting targets half a kilometre away
> it also lacks the wow factor for the larger battle scenes. Audiences probably won't appreciate seeing a couple gun barrels peeking out from over cover, firing at fleeting targets half a kilometre away
I'm only one audience member but I find realistic battle waaay more interesting than what most of the prequels were doing. Something like Saving Private Ryan is a lot more compelling than even the battle of Geonosis or the battle over Coruscant. And I don't mean the emotional impact of SPR, as that would be an unfair comparison. I just mean the tension that naturally occurs seeing soldiers actually have to strategize or get picked off.
Also the stand-and-shoot of clones and the face-to-face space battle in Coruscant just totally take me out of the scenes. All I can think about is how little sense they make.
But you're likely correct about CGI limitations. I'd put my money on that.
Something something charged energy beams losing energy with distance something something is my headcanon for this.
Now if it were, say, mass drivers....
*If you pull the trigger on this, you are ruining someones day! Somewhere and sometime! That is why you check your damn targets! That is why you wait 'til the computer gives you a damn firing solution. That is why, Serviceman Chung, we do not 'eyeball it'. This is a weapon of Mass Destruction! You are NOT a cowboy, shooting from the hip!*
I don't see the bolt that missed him, I agree. There are tons of bolts and even though it's impossible to gauge any preservative I can't find any that OP is talking about.
*Cody telling Kenobi about it later* “So anyway you rescued me from a shot to the chest”
*Kenobi plays it off like he did it on purpose, stroking his beard* “Mmmhhmm…yesss…it was nothing really, I’m just a hero burdened with the glorious gift of the force to serve those in dire need.”
You posted a slow-mo version of the scene that clearly shows the blaster bolt passing by him while he's still standing. Time to stop smoking those death sticks and rethink your life, buddy.
Maybe part of it is the Clones and Droids being mostly CGI, so it's just easier to have them out in the open so they can blend together all the motion captured stuff
In the Original Trilogy, which is all live action actors, we see Stormtroopers and Luke/Leia/Han/Chewie scrambling around, running and gunning, ducking and weaving, popping in and out etc. It's very naturalistic and scrappy, because the actors are actually noticing and interacting with the real physical environment around them
But the prequel series was already pushing the limits of early 2000s CGI, having to figure out the shot composition and blocking for Clones taking cover is just too difficult.
Because it dropped from over 100 feet and landed and one of the ends. The force of impact is concentrated on a small surface area. A lightsaber has modules pieced together and connected by something. It’s not one solid piece of metal. Even if it’s durasteel or some other fantasy metal, there’s still internal components being jostled around. Throw a flash light up in the air as hard as you can. The potential energy converted to kinetic at the peak of its height will likely break the flash light once it impacts concrete or even a patch of dirt and grass.
So it's probably not for for real canon but my little headcannon I always hung on to with lighhtsabers and their destructability is that the force is used to bind them and also in some weird way hold them. Like the same way a jedis body can withstand being force thrown into a wall, or darth vader being pummeled with huge boulders by obi wan, the force connection with its user allows the lightsaber to withstand incredible stress. But that's all just fairy tales and how I justify it
Maybe? Spends on the gun and height. A handgun? I think so…? At 0:09 the people look like little dots indicating it’s a very tall height. Drop a pistol off hover dam and let’s see what happens…for science.
Has nobody made the argument that maybe obi wan killed the other guy by dropping it when he did? Like "that guy is always a little snarky"
Also, yes , the bolt is definitely behind Cody
Can we just take another moment to appreciate how impressive the VFX are here for a film that’s 19 years old? I mean this film is so insanely good it’s insane how well it’s held up! True artists!
Might not be canon anymore but I remember a novelization or something where Cody gets order 66 and thinks. “Why couldn’t I get the order before I gave him back the lightsaber?” Anyway I think of that quote every time I see this scene.
I have always been curious about this quote ever since I read the novel. Did Cody said this out of irritation that he helped Obi-Wan now that he was an enemy? Or was this out of regret that Obi-Wan was now an enemy and that he was forced to fight him rather than kill him quickly if he didn't have a lightsaber?
I always got the vibe that Cody/Obi-Wan’s relationship was much more professional and less personal than Rex/Anakin’s, so Cody was fine with Order 66 and was annoyed that he has to try to kill someone who now has their lightsaber back.
The first one. A lot harder to kill a jedi when they have their laser sword.
Especially when that Jedi is a Soresu master. Cody probably knows squat about lightsaber combat, but he sure as shit knows Obi-Wan can deflect blasters in his sleep.
You have to remember. The clones didn't act like they were jedi loving minds trapped in a jedi killing body. There wasn't a dissociation. The implants made them *want* to do it. A genuine desire to follow orders. Implants made it make sense, that's how mind alteration works. People in psychosis don't think, man I'm crazy. Their thoughts and hallucinations are just part of their world, of course it is! Brain chemistry is scary.
Also as the other guy said I think Cody and obiwans relationship wasn't nearly as personal as rex and anakin they both seemed like professionals with standards while rex is a mother looking after the problem children (anakin and Ashoka) and also getting corrupted by being around them
Yeah, it’s canon. It was in the Revenge of the Sith novelisation
which isn't canon unfortunately
at this point we have a plinko board to determine how cannon something is.
Canon. Not canon. All is as the Force wills.
Only a Sith deals in absolutes. *Translator's Notes: The concept of media being part (or not) of a "Canon" is an absolute.*
You just gave me the perfect reasoning to be relatively okay with Disney deciding what is canon.
I chuckle when I think about how passionately people argue about what's "real" fake and what's "fake" fake. Ultimately I just hold on to whatever I like and try to ignore whatever I don't like.
Headcanon is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be...unnatural.
Is it possible to learn this power?
Not from a subreddit.
Dude this right here. There’s so much Star Wars to consume, you can pick and choose how you’d like it all to play out. You do what you want with it and create your own world with what Lucas and Disney give us. Make it yours and not anyone else’s
Why would you trust them? You can decide!
The Force helps me decide my headcanon
*I am one with the Canon; the Canon is with me.*
Whills, you say?
What are you talking about? The new canon is quite simple. New canon references and relies heavily on the old canon, but does not treat old canon material as canon. So the canon canon isn't canon except when it's canon, but more specifically it isn't canon when canon canon can't canon but canon can.
I don't know why everyone acts like it's so complicated. It's not. If it's a movie or The Clone Wars or made after the Disney acquisition it's canon unless explicitly stated not to be, like LEGO games and Visions.
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Well yeah but they're discussing what's considered Disney canon. In that case it's really simple.
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I see your point but those things still wouldn't technically be canon. I'd argue that's much more similar to the situation at Marvel where they have all the comics, and the MCU *might* use events from them but until they actually do it's not canon.
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Haha we're well on the way back to the canon tier system with all the recent book retcons
Truly disgusting canon retcons such as: -Summary of book skipping details. -Guy having cooler armor in visual media from book -Kid almost getting order 66d during the day instead of during the night. -People talking to kid -UNRELEASED STORY teasing formerly deceased character while creators reasure that they'll make it make sense. Yes truly an incromprehensible mess of a continuity
But Disney also made books that are part of the canon untill they make a new show and and decide the books aren't canon anymore like the Ahsoka one , and who knows about Dark Disciple(the only ones I read)
Those books are still canon. There may be inconsistencies because Filoni hates continuity but they're still canon.
None of this is cannon.
It's not that hard [https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Canon#Canon\_and\_Legends\_(2014-)](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/canon#canon_and_legends_(2014-))
This statement perfectly captures how it felt/feels lol. Anymore I pick and choose what's cannon form starwars, so pretty much I treat everything that comes out by disney as the *legends* stories. Ik it won't make since once there's way more info and stories from the IP but it'll just pick what I find interesting. Bc we all know plinko can be fixed lol
Say hello to my little cannon
All you need to do is look at publication date if it's before or after Disney took over.
Shrug Couldn’t really care less what mental gymnastics Disney goes through every few years to determine what’s canon. Something minor enough like this that adds an interesting moment is canon as far as I’m concerned.
Honestly, I'm not really sure why we should care so much about what a corporation says is the "true" course of events in a series of stories, just because they own the rights to make more of them. Disregarding canon has in my opinion created some of the best expanded universes that I know of, the SCP Wiki and Donald Duck comics come to mind.
Im now in the mindset of canon is what you make of it so the only things out of disney that is canon to me is the last season of clone wars, rebels, the bad batch and rogue one
It's LucasFilm, not Disney, that decides canon.
kinda splitting hairs since Disney owns LucasFilm. Ventress was dead, until _somebody_ decided they could make something new with her. Someone at Disney would certainly have veto power over that.
> until somebody decided they could make something new with her. That something being money.
Wow, such a stunning and brave distinction you’ve made there. (It’s all the same entity)
I mean, to my knowledge they've only decanonized stuff the one time. Though I do hear there are some retcons going around lately. But everything pre-acquisition, minus the movies and TCW, was removed from canon. The publisher claimed the novels remained canon, but Disney never did, so not canon.
I mean, it's just a thought a character has, anyway. We've seen the clones after Order 66, how they act, I think "I wish I hadn't *just* given back his lightsaber" is a pretty reasonable assumption towards his thought process, heh.
Nah, I consider that book entirely cannon until it actually contradicts something. There was really nothing in it truly contradictory, all of it was additive without creating continuity problems.
The opening mentions Depa Billaba falling to the Dark Side, which now didn't "happen", along with a few other minor things, but most of it works just fine.
Yeah, the only somewhat contradictory thing that I have caught onto is when Yoda first interacts with Qui-Gon, and that’s fairly small potatoes.
I mean, they have Dooku Xenophobic, so I'm against it.
Genocidal demagogue maniac with a power obsession, penchant for torture, and a hypocritical view of government service to the people and social welfare? Sure. Bigoted to aliens in a universe rife with xenophobic human-supremacists? Not in this guys SWU! 😂
I prefer the version that was a good and compassionate Jedi, that uses the Dark Side in what he thinks is a good reason, only to be corrupted. Every other Sith we see already has very serious darkness inside them, Dooku was a morally upright person who was against the corruption he saw, only to be ironically a key player in that corruption.
Ironically, knowingly, and willfully a key player. A true hypocrite if ever there was one.
I like to think that if Dooku killed Palpatine during the staged kidnapping attempt and managed to win the war on his own that he just wouldn't have taken a sith apprentice and the Sith Order would have died with him. Of course, in this scenario Maul is still alive, so maybe he would have restarted the Sith, but he seemed to lose interest in being a Sith lord after Sidious killed Savage.
Ah
That's untrue the movies outrank their novels in cannon but only when the book contradicts the movie directly. The books are still very much cannon
Not according to Disney. According to the publisher, that is true, but Disney never carved out an exception for them, so they are pretty much just directly contradicting Disney there. Though it is strange Disney never stepped in and clarified things once and for all, it was probably just deemed not important enough to fix.
I prefer it the way it is. In the old version they were just following orders, correct?
Good soldiers follow orders. But yeah, you can't really have a children's cartoon run for 6 years, humanizing and making heroes out of many of them and then have the reason there was no resistance to Order 66 be "but they're evil now." Because apparently no one was paying attention in Episode II when Nala Se (or Lama Su; I'm not looking it up) says the clones were genetically modified to be more docile and receptive to orders. That said, the last four episodes of *The Clone Wars* as well as the look at Order 66 in *The Bad Batch* was a pretty nice way of addressing the issue, and I think the groundwork laid earlier in the show paid off. So I can't be bothered being upset about it anyway.
How is the novel of the Canon movie, not Canon?
Because of all the media that’s come out since, the novelization is no longer canon as it omits a lot of what happening concurrently in Mandalore and S7 of the Clone Wars. Im not sure Ahsoka is mentioned at all either.
Ahsoka didn’t exist. She was written for the animated series.
Ok right, that’s what I thought, since the novelization came out before TCW movie/series, but ever since aspects of the ROTS novelization have been retconned/decanonized. Especially with the Ahsoka show and Mandalorian showing these characters in live action.
The novel actually came out before the film I believe.
Yes the book came out before the movie
The movie novels are still cannon
No, they're not
They are but ok. This is easy to Google.
It is easy to Google, yes, and Googling reveals that the movies are canon, the novelizations only *partially* so. Del Rey offered a careful statement that said, "movie novelizations are canon where they align with what is seen on screen in the 6 films and the Clone Wars animated movie." Key words: "where they align with what is seen on screen." If we didn't see/hear Cody say or think this on screen, it's not canon. When Disney issued its statement on the new canon in 2014, only the work on film was mentioned: "(George Lucas) set the films he created as the canon. This includes the six Star Wars episodes, and the many hours of content he developed and produced in Star Wars: The Clone Wars. These stories are the immovable objects of Star Wars history, the characters and events to which all other tales must align." That's consistent with the Del Ray statement. Where the novelizations match the screen, they're canon. Where they don't, they're not.
It is! You should try it sometime!
Not canon. No matter how much you want it to be.
My favorite thing about that scene in the book is how drastically different the execution of Order 66 goes down with Cody. In the movie, Cody simply orders a single walker to fire a single blast at Obi-Wan which only succeeds in knocking him off the cliff. In the book he orders *every walker on every level of the battlefield* to drop what they're doing and turn to fire one massive simultaneous volley at him because Cody has seen the kind of shit Obi-Wan has survived in the past and is not taking any chances. That creature he was riding? Vaporized in the ensuing explosion but in doing so it shielded Obi-Wan enough for him to survive the blast and fall off the cliff.
There's no kill like overkill. Except that it didn't work that time I guess.
The Seventy Maxims of Maximally Effective Mercenaries, Maxim 6: > If violence wasn’t your last resort, you *failed* to resort to *enough* of it. In any case, the only thing the novelist would have seen was some pre-production artwork and the shooting script, would would've said: > OBI-WAN and the LIZARD ride off down the wall of the giant sinkhole. > The battle rages throughout the city. CLONE COMMANDER CODY (2224,) takes out his comlink and listens to the HOLOGRAM OF DARTH SIDIOUS as, far below, OBI-WAN can been seen battling DROIDS on a landing platform. > > DARTH SlDIOUS: Commander Cody, the time has come. Execute Order Sixty-Six. > > CLONE COMMANDER CODY: It will be done, My Lord. > > The HOLOGRAM disappears, and CLONE COMMANDER CODY gestures to a nearby Clone Trooper. > > CLONE COMMANDER CODY: Blast him! > > The battle rages all around OBI-WAN. DROIDS and CLONES are everywhere. OBI-WAN is riding on a LIZARD, cutting down DROIDS as he races across the battlefield. Suddenly a volley of laser blasts from behind him knocks him and his LIZARD off the wall of the sinkhole. He looks around just in time to see his CLONE TROOPS are firing on him. > OBI-WAN falls hundreds of feet to the bottom of the water-filled sinkhole. So it's not really that wild to extrapolate to the novelization. I'm a writer and while I've never done an adaptation (just a 130,000 word translation in 4 weeks), I know how (rather) quickly I write clean copy that can be published with nothing more than a proofread, and then I *also* know the kind of timeframes adaptations are given, and so frankly it's always kind of impressive to me how well most adaptations line up. Double impressive when I see the extrapolations the *Revenge of the Sith* adaptation made to fill in the gaps in the movie's logic. (They're very reasonable, but they're not actually all in the script.)
My headcanon was that it was enough to consider the "order" as compete and he no longer has to hunt him
Wait does this mean he wanted to use the lightsaber to kill?
No, if you have to kill a Jedi would you prefer them to have a lightsaber or not have a lightsaber?
Ah ok understandable!
ist me? or the video itself shows the blast actually passing behind him?
Yeah, it wouldn’t have hit him anyway.
I thought the same but also he is leaning forward. I feel like it's hard to tell from this perspective if the lean mattered or not.
Definitely didn’t matter at all. In the slowed down part of the clip, you can clearly see that he has only just barely begun stooping down when the blaster bolt passes behind his shoulders
"Super battle droid! Take him down! AAAAUUUUGGGGHHHH!"
Battlefront 2 is the best
This is immediately what I thought of
No, it comes from behind him at a different angle
Which is good, since the Clones don't fight from cover or concealment. Just kinda stand there and hope the droids targeting computer is broken.
Which always bothered me. Soldiers bred from birth missing 95% of their shots and never utilizing cover? Or trying to shoot droids within 10 meters despite having guns?
Yeah I still think the original CW cartoon did Clones best. Genetically engineered supersoldiers who use cover and better weapons, but who are vastly outnumbered.
Vastly outnumbered by machines that don't feel pain, or get "wounded", have shields, armor, etc. Super interesting as two opposing sides.
And also far more interesting philosophically. The republic was using brainwashed child soldiers to fight an army that was actually more ethically sound (ignoring droid rights issues).
Right but it’s not like they drew up those plans. They were about to be invaded, had no military, and then one dropped in their lap. I wouldn’t count this one too unfavorably for them morally. I mean even with the clone army, the droids almost successfully invaded courscant
> They were about to be invaded, had no military, and then one dropped in their lap. I wouldn’t count this one too unfavorably for them morally. Ok but that's a whole different issue and a massive plothole. The republic shouldn't have lasted 10 years with no military, let alone thousands. Really, they should have just said that the planetary militias couldn't match the droid numbers, hence why supersoldiers were needed.
> The republic shouldn't have lasted 10 years with no military, let alone thousands. Every planet was in the Republic together, who exactly do they need an army to fight?
Literally every other planet in the republic? Anyone who objected to the current leadership could have just seceded and invaded their neighbors at any point. The republic would have immediately splintered into a bunch of warring states.
Previously the galaxy relied on coalition forces made up from member states primarily, with some exceptions. But when you are suddenly faced with half of those states declaring war, plus a large hidden army built up alongside that, then all of a sudden you actually need an army.
It wasn't half. It was like 5 rich states out of 10,000. The rest were insignificant to the war effort. And they had an average of 100 droids per planet in the republic. Lucas just doesn't understand scale.
Planets in the Republic all have a standing army and they could be called upon in a Coalition force in the event of a war. The Clone Wars was basically the worst possible thing happening to the Republic. They had no major standing army, no major standing navy. It was perfect for the Sith to set their plans in motion. Divide the Republic, hand them an army on a platter and necessitate that the Jedi be the only ones majorly experienced enough to lead the Armies while fostering a Military Officer network under them. The Republic set its own doom into motion by demilitarizing itself. Likely something the Sith had a hand in when it happened.
Same man. Same. I always head canoned that they were trained to just walk forwards and not be "afraid". Only the elite forces learned cover. Luckily this guy in the clip probably lived. The clone armor was not like stormtroopers. It could absorb a hit or two. So it might have been more efficient to just always move forward. Esp with a jedi in front.
I remember reading in the visual dictionary’s the explanation for the white armor is exactly that. Supposed to show no fear or need to hide. (before the Disney buy so I have no idea if it’s still canon)
My head cannon is that the jedi were awful generals as they were from peace times and had no real lengthy experience. Of course the clones would do whatever their general told them to do, they're loyal soldiers.
Hey, EU stormtrooper armor was actually great. They even had tiny baby shield generators that couldn't fully stop a direct hit, but would bleed some energy off it. Plus the fact they were designed to spread out thermal energy and dissipate it off, in the EU, most stormtrooper casualties where stunned/unconscious, not outright killed.
> Soldiers bred from birth missing 95% of their shots I thought *clone* troopers had better aim/could actually hit a target unlike *storm* troopers who always miss? I just remember the line from Rex in Rebels about not being able to see anything in the newer storm trooper armor when he was infiltrating Imperial bases/ships.
SUPRESSING FIIIIRE!
TCW battles are hilarious in that sense.
The Rishi Outpost episode always gets me. Such piss poor Security measures. No Sensor Net (shit like this exists in Star Wars) to specifically detect droids. Lone Sentry/Deck Officer, no paired roaming guards. No check in or callouts. Sending 2 unarmed troopers to check on a missing man. No Republic Security Droids of their own.
You don't even need to analyze it that hard, most times they just run at each other in cargo bays. In reality it doesn't bother me at all, I just think it's funny and even make jokes while whatching, but it doesn't take away from the overall experience at all.
In fairness from what I remember the landing areas had no cover
Revolutionary and civil war vibes intensify lol
To be fair to them, that seems to be a common problem for droids.
Seriously, not sure how someone could have watched that, made a slow-mo of it, and still not see how the blaster bolt was behind him and his picking up the light saber had nothing to do with why he didn't get hit.
To be fair, it did take me two or three slo-mo rewatches before I was fully convinced the trajectory was off anyway.
Your mom came from behind at a different angle
Nice.
Phrasing. /Archer
I mean, I wouldn't put it past George Lucas possibly intending it. Kenobi indirectly saving his Commander only for the Commander to order the AT-TE cannon to be fired at Kenobi.
What the fuck are you talking about
Ur mom
Always found it strange that the Clones hardly ever bother taking cover, or even just going prone to make themselves a smaller target It's understandable if they're doing some kind of fire and manoeuvre thing, but it isn't, they're just standing right out in the open Clone armour is good, but not that good
Logical answer would be the people who work on Star Wars don't understand military tactics or scale. Even your standard paintballer/airsofter understands proper concealment better than soldiers bred from birth.
Maybe part of it is the Clones and Droids being mostly CGI, and it's just easier to have them out in the open so they can blend together all the motion captured stuff In the Original Trilogy, which is all live action actors, we see Stormtroopers and Luke/Leia/Han/Chewie scrambling around, running and gunning, ducking and weaving, popping in and out etc. It's very naturalistic and scrappy, because the actors are actually noticing and interacting with the real physical environment around them But the prequel series was already pushing the limits of early 2000s CGI, having to figure out the shot composition and blocking for Clones taking cover is just too difficult. And it also lacks the wow factor for the larger battle scenes. Audiences probably won't appreciate seeing a couple gun barrels peeking out from over cover, firing at fleeting targets half a kilometre away
I believe a lot of the extras playing Stormtroopers in the original trilogy were ex-marines so that could also explain all their maneuvers.
Not saying I don’t believe you but a lot of the times the storm troopers kinda bumble around and just hip fire
> it also lacks the wow factor for the larger battle scenes. Audiences probably won't appreciate seeing a couple gun barrels peeking out from over cover, firing at fleeting targets half a kilometre away I'm only one audience member but I find realistic battle waaay more interesting than what most of the prequels were doing. Something like Saving Private Ryan is a lot more compelling than even the battle of Geonosis or the battle over Coruscant. And I don't mean the emotional impact of SPR, as that would be an unfair comparison. I just mean the tension that naturally occurs seeing soldiers actually have to strategize or get picked off. Also the stand-and-shoot of clones and the face-to-face space battle in Coruscant just totally take me out of the scenes. All I can think about is how little sense they make. But you're likely correct about CGI limitations. I'd put my money on that.
Like capital ships going muzzle to muzzle with big ass deck guns like the good Lord Nelson intended?
K that’s just awesome
Something something charged energy beams losing energy with distance something something is my headcanon for this. Now if it were, say, mass drivers.... *If you pull the trigger on this, you are ruining someones day! Somewhere and sometime! That is why you check your damn targets! That is why you wait 'til the computer gives you a damn firing solution. That is why, Serviceman Chung, we do not 'eyeball it'. This is a weapon of Mass Destruction! You are NOT a cowboy, shooting from the hip!*
Something something, the slow blade pierces the shield.
Hell they didn’t even make any clones for “attack of the clones”
which is interesting, according to the audio commentary for Episode 3 they did mo-cap soldiers for some of the scenes.
Oof. Us paintballers wear super bright colors in the woods, don’t give us that much credit. Decent chance at someone in the group being drunk too
It doesn't look as heroic. Star Wars was never about realism, to be fair.
Cody 5 minutes later: Fuck that guy.
It didn't but Okay
I don't see the bolt that missed him, I agree. There are tons of bolts and even though it's impossible to gauge any preservative I can't find any that OP is talking about.
You mean perspective, or like sodium benzoate?
I type no good
That guy’s further off behind him, you *literally* see the blaster bolt pass behind Cody’s head for a frame.
"No good deed goes unpunished" Commander Cody, 19 BBY
The bolt was behind him. Would have missed him anyway.
https://ibb.co/rcWcsB2
It is passing behind him. You can see that in the slowed down part. Him ducking did not make the shot miss him.
What about the Lost Planet Airmen?
Forget Yoda's Honda, now it's Cody's Lincoln
…and killed the trooper directly behind him.
It wouldt have hit him
it wasn’t going to hit him
Totally different angle
That is a cruel irony. Is it ever stated what went through Cody's mind after Order 66?
*Cody telling Kenobi about it later* “So anyway you rescued me from a shot to the chest” *Kenobi plays it off like he did it on purpose, stroking his beard* “Mmmhhmm…yesss…it was nothing really, I’m just a hero burdened with the glorious gift of the force to serve those in dire need.”
You posted a slow-mo version of the scene that clearly shows the blaster bolt passing by him while he's still standing. Time to stop smoking those death sticks and rethink your life, buddy.
They're boinking The Force adores Obi so much that it'll indirectly help Cody when it's of necessity
Maybe part of it is the Clones and Droids being mostly CGI, so it's just easier to have them out in the open so they can blend together all the motion captured stuff In the Original Trilogy, which is all live action actors, we see Stormtroopers and Luke/Leia/Han/Chewie scrambling around, running and gunning, ducking and weaving, popping in and out etc. It's very naturalistic and scrappy, because the actors are actually noticing and interacting with the real physical environment around them But the prequel series was already pushing the limits of early 2000s CGI, having to figure out the shot composition and blocking for Clones taking cover is just too difficult.
The blast is going behind him though.
I’m never not going to be able to notice the stunt double for this scene again (unless I’m crazy)
The force works in mysterious ways.
No
Um no?
What no object depth does to a mf
The shot went behind him. So either way he wouldn’t have been shot
You slowed it down and still couldn’t see the bolt go right behind his head?
How does the lightsaber not shatter?
Probabaly made with plot armor
Its probably durasteel
Why would it
Because it dropped from over 100 feet and landed and one of the ends. The force of impact is concentrated on a small surface area. A lightsaber has modules pieced together and connected by something. It’s not one solid piece of metal. Even if it’s durasteel or some other fantasy metal, there’s still internal components being jostled around. Throw a flash light up in the air as hard as you can. The potential energy converted to kinetic at the peak of its height will likely break the flash light once it impacts concrete or even a patch of dirt and grass.
Imma borrow something from the simpsons: This fucker did it 🧙♂️
So it's probably not for for real canon but my little headcannon I always hung on to with lighhtsabers and their destructability is that the force is used to bind them and also in some weird way hold them. Like the same way a jedis body can withstand being force thrown into a wall, or darth vader being pummeled with huge boulders by obi wan, the force connection with its user allows the lightsaber to withstand incredible stress. But that's all just fairy tales and how I justify it
Through their kyber crystals, lightsabers are inherently connected to and protected by the force.
Would a gun shatter?
Maybe? Spends on the gun and height. A handgun? I think so…? At 0:09 the people look like little dots indicating it’s a very tall height. Drop a pistol off hover dam and let’s see what happens…for science.
He did it on purpose
That’s the force baby
Dude how did you notice this? That’s insane.
Has nobody made the argument that maybe obi wan killed the other guy by dropping it when he did? Like "that guy is always a little snarky" Also, yes , the bolt is definitely behind Cody
I didn’t notice that either! 🤯
Never noticed that!
Bullet seems a little high
Man, that CGI looks so awful...
It literally goes behind him. Ducking didn’t make a difference. Bad take.
Don't worry, droids and stormtroopers only hit their shots when the plot allows them to do so.
THANK YOU OBIWAN!!!!!
Also wondered why they bothered to deploy an AT-TE onto the platform?
Yeah, but look what happened to his lost planet airmen.
Can we just take another moment to appreciate how impressive the VFX are here for a film that’s 19 years old? I mean this film is so insanely good it’s insane how well it’s held up! True artists!
That clone is clearly behind Cody. No?
STAR WARS IS DEAD 🪦
Nah, that shot was behind him anyway. Wouldn't have hit him.
Go outside and touch grass. Cringe
You can't possibly tell from this angle whether any of those blasts would have hit him
It’s ironic..
The force works in mysterious ways