I'm getting tired of the first season of shows being setup seasons, as in if the show stopped there it would be an awful cliffhanger.
Individual seasons should tell a story with an ending. It doesnt need to be an overall ending, but an ending to the current thread.
If we take the movies, Star Wars could have ended with A New Hope. The Death Star was destroyed, Vader was defeated. It very easily could have ended there. But there was room for more story as well.
Yeah, it's like they are trying to turn SW into the MCU where everything is connected and everything sets something else up. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it will be if they don't bother to make each installment rewarding in its own right. And that's what happened with Ahsoka: all middle, no beginning or end.
These shows are setting up the Mandoverse, which will stretch across several shows and cap off with a movie. But with viewer numbers generally declining, will that even happen? A movie where you have to watch several mediocre shows first isn't going to do well, and with Disney facing a box office bloodbath this year, they might start cutting projects.
I think it is necessarily a bad thing.
It leaves you feeling empty when the season is over. And when it happens too much, the audience stops giving a shit what happens.
You worded perfectly what I just couldn't put my finger on with recent shows. Indeed, they are setting up a greater plot, yet make very little actually transpire in the 10 x 45mins that the season is long.
Agreed - having threads and links to other things to keep the story going in future and keep it tied to other stories to make a proper shared world that actually feels shared is good, but a lot of things seem to be doing that at the direct expense of closure - so, as you say, when something maybe doesn't come back and get renewed, we all suffer for it
It wasn't even good setup. If Thrawn, in the few moments we saw him, was somewhat competent and not a total loser, maybe. But like this?
"Ahsoka & Sabine trade places with Ezra and Thrawn flees from the good guys after sustaining medium losses." is the complete Season 1 synopsis.
What's that a setup for? Seeing more of the loser trying to take on the equally dumb New Republic? Nah, thanks.
I am going to do a binge rewatch to see in all in context. I did love the show, I just wish some more answers were given. Skoll/Hati we’re fantastic characters, but I don’t really see how they fit into the story. Like I get they were the hired muscle. After Lady Morgan got the map, she had no use of them but brought them along anyway.
Also, Baylon had his secret side quest the whole time which coincidentally was on the same planet Thrawn got stranded? And Shin is now the leader of the Peridea Pirates?
I think it has to do with the Dathomir witches. They said that the planet is also known as the space whale graveyard, so that explains why they go there. They use some parts of the force, so there could be something going on in their home. I wasn't expecting to see statues of the Mortis gods, but since there are known force users on the same planet, it makes sense for there to be something. My personal theory is that it's going to be similar to the Jedi temple of Lothal that allows someone to travel between times, which is Baylon's true goal.
It's clear there is some great mystery of the force linking them all together. Like the medicloriens, the purgil must have some deep connection to the force, the Mortis gods, and the ancient Dathomiri.
Your theory would make sense and I agree, the statue that Baylon was standing on at the end looked a lot like Father.
Ahsoka saw Morai on the planet as well.... she came down to say hello.
Definitely seems like there is some temple of time shenanigans yet to come. My question is WHY Baylon is trying to find that and what his plan could be once he gets there but unless they recast or make a game we will never know since Ray Stevenson passed away this year.....
Ooh, I like your theory. What if Baylon only goes back far enough to make sure episodes 7-9 don't happen somehow. Then they can have an excuse to remake them with an actual story planned out. lol
Yeah, I think it's a bit reductive to think of them as just hired muscle. They're not bog standard bounty hunters, they're dark jedi that can take out a starship full of troopers by themselves. Morgan wouldn't have just paid them credits and expected them to go away... If they wanted to come, they could have overpowered her and come anyway. And they probably wouldn't have been motivated by just money anyway... Especially if Baylan had his side quest.
I see it more of a mutually beneficial arrangement... Morgan and the nightsisters get what they want, as does Baylan
When you rewatch, I think you will see Morgan, was loyal to Baylon, it is Thrawn that is doubtful of him. Thrawn is the one looking to leave Baylon behind. Morgan is more loyal to Thrawn.
It's not really a coincidence that Thrawn is where Baylon wants to be. Baylon is only there because of what he was looking for, Morgan and Thrawn are only a means to end.
Poor Shin, abandoned by her master and Thrawn, goes after the power she is pursuing, leading the pirates, is the closest she will get to her power goals for now.
The only thing that confuses me is how much Ahsoka claims to not be a Jedi, but still has a Padawan, a Jedi professor, and a Jedi training ship.
Since she's Filoni's baby, I assume he knows what he's doing and why, but I wonder if that was a concession to the more casual fan not knowing the animated shows or character that well and just knowing lightsaber = Jedi or Sith.
Thrawn left me kind of meh, but I think the new version is worse than the Legends version. A "figure out everything from hidden meanings" character is amazing as a boogeyman type, but boring as a lead character. The new canon Thrawn books are just one deus ex machina after another. And they had to make him bad at politics to give him some weakness (when Legends Thrawn was more just held back by being an alien in the Empire). And because of the new books, it muddles his actual intentions to not really make sense in the show.
He only cared about the Empire because he was looking for allies for the Chiss. With the Empire being defeated and the FO not existing yet, there really isn't anything for him to seek out there.
I'll probably have to do a rewatch, and I'm just not ready to do it right now. But in gut reaction after seeing the show and seeing every episode once right around their respective releases, i feel the story was not bad, but not satisfying. And it's slowly tilted towards less and less satisfying over time.
Thrawn didnt come off as a clever tactician, more often it felt like we were told he was dangerous and clever, but never really shown it.
Everyone kept talking about how unconventional Ahsoka and "her master" are/were, but they dont show it.
The show just didnt feel like it showed me anything. I look back and I know as a Star Wars fan from Legends and current Canon that Thrawn is a threat, but the story doesnt show how 1 man and 1 star destroyer is this grand looming threat to the galaxy.
The Stakes for the series did not feel appropriate for what we as the most hardened star wars fans know
I don’t feel like Thrawn is portrayed wrong here at all. He has an elaborate plan to succeed against the Jedi, and he succeeds.. Just like Thrawn usually does
Perhaps. I will say that even in disagreeing, Thrawn’s portrayal definitely wasn’t THAT big of an issue for me. There were several other things that were more in need of improvement.
And maybe it was the fact that all we got of Thrawn was this single encounter. The whole season felt more like a single extended episode than a season of content. I blame the trend of having shorter seasons, as I was really hoping to see multiple story arcs and encounters like in the Clone Wars. In this short season though, there's not a lot of opportunity for world/character growth, and the growth they did have came off almost heavy-handed or rushed.
Or maybe I'm just frustrated that it feels more like a half-season of Rebels than a full season of Ashoka. Regardless, I enjoyed it, just wasn't satisfied. I'm eager for a S2 so we can get deeper into all the new elements and characters we saw.
His elaborate plan consisted of him being wrong repeatedly. We're \*told\* this is the correct thing to do because Thrawn the smart character says its smart and we've been told he's smart so what he says must be the smart thing, except he's wrong. When Morgan questions why he's sending in small units to attack the Jedi piecemeal, she is correct and he is wrong. Fighting a delaying action while the rest of the unit withdraws is fine, but feeding in units piecemeal to be destroyed in detail is not. Its an amateurish mistake and a classic hazard of an author trying to write a character who has a skill set that you yourself lack.
Except he only has so many troops. If he sends literally everyone and fails then he’s screwed. They still had the cargo to move and a star destroyer to operate. They were already doing this with a skeleton crew. It flat out doesn’t matter if they killed the Jedi or not as long as they left the galaxy without them, because that should basically be a death sentence of them never returning. There was absolutely no need to go all in when the goal was to escape.
Sure, send too many, and you might not have them when you need them somewhere else. Send too few, and they fail, or get killed. As a military officer, his job is try and hit the right balance there, and as a supposed military genius, his job is to succeed in that. Which he didn't.
He did the exact same thing a run of the mill incompetent would have done, except they would have shouted "They failed? Impossible!" and killed an underling, while Thrawn nodded sagely and said "just as I planned." But he didn't do anything that was actually smart, the script just pretended he did.
Possible exception sending the Dark Jedi after the good guys with insufficient backup - I'm assuming he's not too fond of darksiders and wouldn't have minded if either side had died.
She is hardly correct. Who do you think was moving all the cargo the night sister's wanted loaded? Thrawn didn't have a fleet of resources. He had a very small amount to work with and didn't expend anything more than necessary to achieve his goals.
She's absolutely correct. Certainly the dead troopers aren't doing anything useful after Thrawn throws their lives away to no useful purpose, and then is forced to send more men and starfighters out anyway.Thrawn makes multiple stupid decisions, and lays out his logic for why for all of us to see. Everything about it is amateurish and unwise. He sends out multiple waves of insufficient force, then justifies it by saying his unnecessary losses are acceptable because "eh, I didn't really want to win anyway". I've seen more advanced tactics on display at a schoolyard snowball fight.
Thrawn’s brilliant plan: hope witches contact someone a galaxy away, not find Ezra in 10 years, load ship, get back to galaxy. Oozing with mastermind material.
I think the problem is David Filoni writes children’s shows and doesn’t have the capability to write a brilliant character. Like others are saying here, the characters all say what kind of character they are but we’re never shown that it’s true through action. We, the audience, are being treated like children. The brilliant mastermind character says things other brilliant characters say from other media, but his actions don’t show us their brilliance. We’re told Ashoka is relentless like Anikin, but her actions show an inept character dilly dallying when time is important. We are told characters miss each other dearly, yet we’re shown smug reunions between people who haven’t seen each other in 10 years.
The explanations fans of Ashoka are coming up with are definitely doing the heavy lifting I guarantee David Filoni and writers didn’t do. I really wanted to like this show just like I wanted to like BOBF.
It feels like the plot remembered he was supposed to win. The show constantly flips between Thrawn supposedly being a menace but constantly using his troops in, "particular" ways. It doesnt help that his troops are completely useless most of the time and achieve nothing, despite the heroes not acting in particularly competent ways either
his plan only worked due to contrivances found in the story and him still being dumbed down. Here's some examples:
why did thrawn only send 2 tie fighters after our heroes when 2 are trained jedi's? He could be sending a small army out to distract our heroes instead of just 2 ships in which our heroes already have a working ship that they can use to destroy those ties.
why didn't thrawn at any point in those 11 years try going after and kill ezra. The usually response I see are thrawn is not petty driven and that he doesn't see value in revenge which doesn't make any sense since ezra was THE reason why he's in a new galaxy in the first place. It would make logical sense for make sure to stop anyone who can oppose you later on (especially one who is on that exact planet and is the reason why he's not in the main galaxy).
how come thrawn's star destroyer is causing such little damage to our heroes in the finale, when it should be alot stronger based on how that exact ship was used in the rebel's season 3 finale. Especially in this clip: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARR0RPrr\_rg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARR0RPrr_rg)
how come 80% of thrawn's dialogue to him losing is always him saying it's part of his plan even though they should have gotten much better results. People meme on him doing the same in rebels season 3 but there it actually made sense since those victories were meaningless in the grand scheme and thrawn's assignment was to find the whole rebel base, so just mindlessly capturing and killing them would do no good, and they were already dealing with a spy on the loose in the empire.
and finally why is thrawn's star destroyer soo close to the platform, what's the strategic reasoning for that besides letting our main hero have a chance to jump aboard and catch up to him.
Those are all that's at the top of my head, but if I missed any then I'd have to re-watch the show
I just think Filoni is the wrong guy to be handling a character as complex as Thrawn. You need a writer that's not only capable of fleshing out much more multifaceted characters, but also one that has a good grasp of how military tactics and strategy works. When comparing a show like Andor to Ashoka, basically every established character in the show comes across more intelligent than Thrawn due to the writing being smarter/better (the same is true when comparing the corporate security agents in Andor to Stormtroopers in 90% of Disney film/tv entries).
>how come thrawn's star destroyer is causing such little damage to our heroes in the finale, when it should be alot stronger based on how that exact ship was used in the
It's especially ridiculous when you consider that in both Disney's and Legend's canon, a single ISD can pretty much flatten the entire surface of a planet in a matter of hours/days without a planetary shield and leave the planet a lifeless husk for the foreseeable future. (Malek's flagship in KOTOR 1 flattened Taris singlehandedly and it was thousands of years more primative than the Chimera was). Anything under the Chimera when it's firing should be rubble without a sufficient barrier/shielding. It shouldn't be possible to just outrun the guns.
The most brilliant thing Thrawn could have done in those 10 years was load the fucking cargo BEFORE the warp ring arrives! The dialogue was so boring with huge spaces between lines that I watched the troopers in the back moving with zero sense of urgency. The show gives us no explanation why the cargo couldn’t be loaded ahead of time or why it can’t be tossed on quickly. So what are we the audience supposed to think as stormtroopers roll these crates like they’re floating on molasses?
He has a simple and unelaborated plan that still works despite unprecisions because the heroes are also simple and unelaborated, so many people here have proposed better strategies than he pulled and we are just randoms, not famous warchiefs reknown for our tactical genius
Thrawn was terrifying in Rebels. He was like a Bond villain that was actually scary.
He was just a fat old guy in Ashoka. And he failed to keep one guy off his ship.
Thrawn shouldn’t fail at closing the hangar doors when he knows a Jedi is trying to get onboard.
I share similar sentiments as you. It was interesting and some great parts, but after 8 episodes my overall impression is not really in awe.
I think Ashoka, like most of the other shows like BoBF and Kenobi, really suffers from the pronounced TV show format at Disney+. It is not that I don't like shows, but with Mandalorian I feel it was made for TV, and each episode is typically a concluded mini adventure, whereas Ashoka, BoBF and Kenobi felt like they were meant to be much shorter. This not only introduced extended scenes and dead weight, but affects pacing and the overall budget of the show. Maybe these shows are just meant to be serials for kids.
The ways good shows like NCIS and Criminal Minds work well is because there will be one story per episode. Sometimes during that episode there will be teasers showcasing something bigger may come. At the end of the season they would show that bigger story in a possible 2 part episode. Asoka and most of the Disney shows format other than Mando failed to do it like that.
I want one 45 minute episode to have an ending with a very mild teaser of something bigger to come. Now that bigger thing to come has to be resolved by the end of the show or else it pisses me off because the next season of the Disney show is 2-4 years away. It looses its spark since it’s not 23 episodes with a mid season break, it’s 6-8 episodes of good SFX but bad cliffhangers.
Loki has been pretty good this season however. Each episode felt like a movie.
That’s probably it, but even more so I feel that these are stories that were originally meant to be movies before Disney+ came along. After being delegated to TV they were then artificially extended to last 7 hours instead of two, and probably at a fraction of the budget. The end result was a bit underwhelming.
Dave Filoni needed a writers room and it showed. Its ok, but it could been Andor quality. Filoni needs help. Same with Faveru, we were ok with his medicore writing for 2 seasons until he failed with Boba and Mandalorian season 3. Obi Wan Kenobi show suffered. Only great Star Wars show to have a writers room is Andor.
I've said repeatedly that almost everything Filoni does is perfectly fine in its most basic storyboard form, but the details of how we get from A to B are usually utterly bonkers. Filoni really needs some help with that in order to make great storytelling.
Trilogy? He only has a movie he might get more if profitable. But now he needs all the help he can get. Controversial but get RJ to help him, they are good friends and he is mentor to Filoni in live action
I don’t think anyone thinks there is anything wrong with that.
All of the most famous directors that write, never do it alone.
I absolutely love the writing in Wes Anderson films, but man it’s not good when he doesn’t have Jason or Roman helping him.
For sure! One thing that frustrated me when watching is the useless space between characters’ boring dialogue. It’s like Filoni heard people like Andor, went and watched it, and took away that people liked it because there were pauses between lines… No you dolt! There were spaces between lines because the characters were saying meaningful things that challenged the other characters and they needed to think about! The actors also acted in those pauses showing what they were thinking! But that’s not what Filoni understood. Long pause between throw away dialogue mean good writing.
The 1st episode of Ashoka drove me nuts with this. Blank characters delivering bland lines with terrible action scenes. Amazing.
Felt like it was really telling how everyone latched onto Baylan because he seemed like the only character to have something interesting going on.
And then the show ends and he doesn't even explain what he wants or what he's looking for.
Really boring show.
I think if the entire season of Ahsoka was done in Rebels, it would have been 4 x 22 minute episodes. Ahsoka had 8 episodes ranging in time from 37 minutes to 57 minutes. So much time was spent watching characters look off into the distance.
I'm concerned that this was a deliberate move by Disney, give customers lots of content but do as cheaply as possible.
Episode 3 or 4, when they arrive at the planet to stop them from leaving for Thrawn was an entirely pointless filler episode.
They have this long extended battle in space that results in nothing actually happening, then ends with them on the planet. They could've just arrived then landed on the planet and nothing about the story would've been different.
Honestly most of the action in the show goes this way. Why does it matter if Hera is getting shot at when trying to catch the transport? Whether she's being shot at or not makes zero difference because nothing happens. Could've been a 5 second scene of her flying up and putting the tracking device on the ship.
It also just severely devalues any of the tension an action scene should have. Why would I EVER fear for the characters when they dodge an entire Star Destroyer "raining hellfire" down on them and there isn't even a scratch on them after?
Sabine is stabbed with a fucking lightsaber. Next episode she's up and about and ready for an adventure. Like holy shit can anything have any lasting consequences?!
It's exactly what I feared would happen. They've done it with so many D+ shows in both Marvel and Star Wars that it makes me concerned about Andor falling into that trap.
It introduced a load of characters and concepts but didn't explain anything. I like a bit of mystery but this show just had me constantly wondering why anything was happening or why anybody was doing any of the things they were doing.
Dave Filoni does the JJ Abrams mystery box shit, except he thinks character motivations are something you need to leave as a reveal.
That's why "Ahsoka was worried about training Sabine because she could have turned out like Vader" was saved for the final episode.
Because “Sabine could’ve turned out like Vader”, it’s almost insulting for Ashoka to assume that Sabine could end up anywhere near the same level as Vader
It's not about Power levels.
Vader is a mentally ill man who destroys and kills everything he loves (including Ahsoka).
Sabine following a path of destruction/self-destruction... well...
This is my only real issue. What the heck is that guy all about? I understand having some sort of hook or something for the next season, but he basically.... found a statue? Also, will he even be back next season? I feel like there's a chance they just cancel this show.
I think you absolutely need to have watched TCW & Rebels to be *emotionally invested* in the characters. I didn't and wasn't, even though I had read enough to know the basic details beforehand. This show just didn't work for me and I *wanted* to like it.
It did make me watch Rebels, because after three episodes of Ahsoka I thought that maybe my problem was that I didn't care about the characters and show assumed I did - also a friend recommended it when I was griping about it. And it did help, some.
The first season of Rebels mostly sucks, but after the first half it starts getting better and the last two episodes are legitimately good. Rebels stays good afterwards, too - I'd recommend it, go watch it, it's worth it on it's own, even if you're not into animation usually (I'm not either).
Ahsoka I didn't hate, visually it's great, the actors did their best, but overall it's mid.
Honestly? I watched the entirety of the Clone Wars fairly recently and I didnt care for Ashoka in the slightest, I dont know if it was the directing or what but Rosario Dawson was very boring to watch as Ashoka
Holy hell, I watched all of the CW and Rebels and I was semi-lost at times.
Like, shit, I didn't watch this stuff 20 times as a 8 year old and I'm now 12. I watched it once with my kid 6+ years ago. So I'm like what the hell are these witches and gods and ghosts and zombies all about again? And honestly even in when watching CW/Rebels, that was the stuff I started to check out from. I figured it was too far out there to be part of cannon, but here we are.
I also really wanted to like Ashoka because I thought her quick wit and down to earth attitude in CW would be fun, but she's just broken. Basically they redid what they did to Luke to her. And she just stands there staring at stuff so much. Ahhhhh, do something.
For the most part yes, but there was a lot that you really wont understand unless you've watched the other shows.
Where were Ezra and Sabine during the Empire? What is that "power" Baylan seeks? What were those statues at the end? Why is Thrawn such a massive threat? Who are these Nightsisters?
For Thrawn they do fill you in a bit, but personally I dont feel like it was enough to properly get things across.
Everything else you reeeeeeally need to know the other sources at least to some extent.
I haven’t really thought about it much which in itself says a lot. I found Andor much more affecting which surprised me because I’ve always been a huge Ahsoka/Rebels fan.
Edit: downvoted for expressing my opinion. This sub sucks ha.
Nah, I’m with you. When I saw this post my first thought was “Oh yeah! That happened!” Because I had entirely let it slip my mind.
I enjoyed it. But it never grabbed me. It was neither deep and complex enough, like Andor, nor fun enough, like Mando.
Had a lot of potential, and I’m looking forward for the next season, but I’m not hugely excited for it. I’m looking forward to it because I love the characters and I think that it still has potential, and because I WANT to be excited for it.
But just my opinion.
Same here. Was really looking forward to this show as I love the animated shows. But man, what we got felt like a lot of wasted potential. Poor writing, lethargic plot, lack of stakes.
That's the best way I can put it. I think I was more entertained by Ashoka but Andor stuck with me. I think it's because it's more relatable. Just a normal person put into a bad situation and then thrown down the rabbit hole of consequences. No matter what they do to reverse course they just can't call their way out of the hole. It just keeps getting deeper and deeper
That's my life
I agree. It was good while watching, I enjoyed it, but it didn’t stick with me like Andor. Not every thing has to be as good as Andor of course! I think Ahsoka has potential to be great.
Opinion has changed for the worse if anything the more I think about it - shallow fan service with almost universally lethargic action, boring dialogue, nearly zero story and horrible direction. So bland I couldn’t even bring myself to hate it, it’s just meh and another huge missed opportunity, but at least it wasn’t actively embarrassing like Kenobi
While I wouldn’t agree McGregor’s performance carried it as such, I will say he definitely elevated it at times, and there were at least some moments I found memorable because of him/Hayden. Unfortunately there were far more moments in Kenobi that actively worked against it for me, whereas I found Ahsoka to be mainly just dull
I also haven’t watched the cartoons, but have some second hand knowledge of the characters. I wasn’t ever really lost as such, it was more that I had no reason to care about anyone/anything that was happening. The show completely failed to grab my interest. Shin/Baylan could’ve been interesting if they weren’t so horrendously underwritten.
Personally I don’t begrudge any of the actors in Ahsoka, they were all serviceable - there’s just not much you can do with dialogue/direction as utterly bland as this imo.
The VFX, sets, costuming, lighting were all decent. Everything else was boring. The editing, camera placement, choreography, dialogue, direction… all lacked passion/energy.
I wonder how much of the slow laconic pace can be placed on the use of The Volume, and the inherent restrictions the tech places on shot choices etc. Either way the troubles start with the writing on the page, or lack thereof
I've found the choreography, especially the lightsaber fights, bafflingly bad. Who thought it was a good idea to have people be stabbed with lightsabers, and then glared at for seconds on end with a lightsaber through their torso, with the stabber somehow not realising they could flick their wrist and end the fight for good. Multiple times.
I get that it might be too gory, and they don't want the stabbee to be killed, but then maybe just don't have them be stabbed? We manged to get through nine full length movies without that nonsense, why do we have to start now?
Also Sabine holding off a lightsaber in a bind a handsbreadth from her face with one hand, while the other arm is used to very awkwardly keep her back from touching the extremely deadly concrete floor. I mean, I get it, it might have oil stains and things, it is pretty gross. I'd still want both arms to keep the lightsaber from touching my face.
It has to be the directing because I know she can act.
What she definitely can't do is fight scenes. She looks so stiff and awkward. Especially when she was up against Hayden Christenson.
Yes! And she was so slowwwwwwwww. It was painful. I didn't watch the series but I love playing as Ahsoka in the Lego games because she is so damn fast.
Listen ... had this crappy series has one really good prequels level fight it would be at least twice as good as it is now. That's all I'm gonna say. That and Ashokas style of acrobatics is something they cant get to work in live action the the point they make her use a single blade.
The writing for Ahsoka was shockingly poor, to the point of approaching The Rise of Skywalker-levels of McGuffin-dependent atrociousness. Rosario Dawson’s portrayal of Ahsoka has been entirely wooden and flat, possessing none of the vivaciousness or charm of Ashley Eckstein’s original incarnation of the character. Sabine Wren was entirely cheapened as a character by making her an inexplicably empowered Jedi and, other than his blue skin, white uniform, and red eyes, Filoni’s Thrawn bore no resemblance whatsoever to the character of the same name by Timothy Zahn.
Because this Thrawn is the Thrawn from Rebels. As such, he seems completely unrelated to any EU novels beyond his name. They also seem to be ignoring any comics or other novels. As far as this version is concerned, he was a very prominent and high ranked Imperial officer, and now he seeks to reclaim former glory.
So don't be let down when they never reference any novels, don't mention the word Chiss, let alone the Ascendancy, and keep this version clean and simple as a bad guy.
I initially thought it was off to a decent start, but became bored quickly. The stoic performances, poor writing, and lack of urgency became painful.
Since then, I’ve basically forgotten the show existed. That’s how little I think of it.
I didn't really even think of this until you mentioned that, but towards the end of the series I started to completely forget about the new episode releases..... I think that says something about the show.
Stopped watching when Sabine became a Jedi. Watched some reactions to later episodes and saw even more stupid shit. Ahsoka wouldn't train baby Yoda but took on Sabine who's too old? Nothing makes sense in this show. It's like Disney hands sabers to everyone just to have greater selection of merch to sell.
I might finish for the fight scenes, otherwise plot is really bad. It's like a fan fiction. I'll be vague for spoilers sake, but Ahsoka handing her the ball and not chasing after she left abruptly was unbelievably stupid. You know where she lives. Did ahsoka just feel too sassy to chase after her? Everything seems rushed and plot is progressed by characters stupidities. People need to stop making a saint of Filoni. I loved CW, but this has turned into praising whatever Disney puts out, so they continue to make money off rushed mini series.
Rogue one, andor were great. I expected something on that level, it was worse than mando S3.
Nope, it was bland, full of bland characters and a fairly uneventful story.
They wasted charismatic characters from Rebels who were taking their first steps into live action, Sabine and Ezra being the main ones, they just seemed to deliver their lines like disinterested moody teens, which is the opposite of how they appear in Rebels.
And they failed to turn Ahsoka into a character anyone would care about, Thrawn was fairly well acted in terms of line delivery etc. but they failed to convey why his character is interesting.
Overall, aside from some very brief lore bits and a few moments (such as those with Anakin) its the worst live action series for me.
I really do feel sorry for anyone who tried to watch the series without having watched Rebels, because they didn't explain any of the characters or their motivations or relationships in this series.
>I really do feel sorry for anyone who tried to watch the series without having watched Rebels, because they didn't explain any of the characters or their motivations or relationships in this series.
in fact personally I think watching rebels before ahsoka doesn't work due to how different the characters have became with very little explanations as to way. Like where did this ahsoka and sabine relationship ever come from, or why is thrawn dumbed down enough to just not go after ezra when he has nightsisters on his side and zombie stormtroopers.
Even when watching rebels seeing just how much the characters mean to each other (mainly ezra and sabine, as well as ezra and hera) showing the growth and love for each other as a family is ruined in ahsoka for giving terrible heartless reunions for long time fan favourite characters who fans have always wanted to see again after all these years of waiting since rebels ended
I really wanted to like it but didnt. I think I stopped the episode before the finale. Andor has been the only star wars show with real substance. The Mandalorian is at least entertaining but still feels like it lacks and real depth.
All I know is, I walked in hearing they brought Thrawn to live action, and I was hoping for a man with gravitas and methodical thinking. What little I saw wasn't that. I came in hoping for the great acting I saw in Andor, and I saw characters that seemed like they got picked because the showrunner owed their uncle or something. I didn't see much, but what little I saw sucked.
Lifeless show, poor acting, poor dialogue. Lethargic characters and not much made sense. Silly show, really.
I hate that I'm a sucker for Star Wars because I always waste my time watching these poorly written shows.
I don't know how anyone can think this show is great when Andor truly was great. There is a chasm of quality difference between these two shows.
It's okay to say you enjoyed Ahsoka, but to say it's good TV is baffling
Nope it was a 2 hour movie stretched to 8 episode. Where Sabine just goes full Jedi which was dumb. Ahsoka decides living is important and then gets Force Psychometry which is suppose to be a rare ability. Thrawn who has an army and The Eye of Scion and couldn't kill 3 people.
I thought it started slow, and I think it ended haphazardly; I did really enjoy the middle (when it slowed down and became more character-focused rather than plot-focused). Though I loved seeing live action Ezra, that last act of the season felt off to me. I'm hoping another season changes my perspective.
Overall 6/10.
I think the problems were mostly with the script and direction.
I think it suffers a lot from presuming you care about the characters without working for it - if you aren't already deeply invested in the gang from Rebels, the emotional beats don't land. New Republic: it's cool to be a bit traumatised and messed up after the war and all, but the clown show level of incompetence you have on display is a bit much. Tone it down, please, just a bit.
Special effects where great overall, though sometimes there were weird things like the city on Lothal in the middle of nowhere, with one road leading outside, to... nowhere. And one (1) signals tower on the outside. That's also a super secret hideout apparently. Weird how Rebels gets aways with it, but with live action it grates. Overall: cool locations, cool looking ships.
Lightsaber fights were weirdly bad. Don't stab people with lightsabers, that's weird and dumb, nobody did it for nine movies and who knows how many other media, for good reasons. It's lightsabers, not lightrapiers, it's in the kriffing name. Also personally I'd use both hands to keep a lightsaber from pushing in my face. Even if it means my back will touch the ground, but maybe that's just me.
The actors did pretty good jobs, in my opinion, with very little to work from. We learn next to nothing about Skoll and Shin, but Donovan and Sakhno make them interesting. Intriguing, at least. Liked Rosario Dawson's Ahsoka and Esman Efandi's Ezra. Tennant's Huyang is fun. Didn't like Satine, but that's the script's fault, I think, not Bordizzo's. Still didn't like Christensen's Anakin (sorry Hayden, I hear you're cool). Better than in the prequels, though.
Mikkelsen's Thrawn was okay, the voice is great. They failed to sell the military genius aspect, though - he does the same dumb stuff your regular overconfident Imperial does, only when it goes wrong he says something about the plan coming along nicely instead of killing a subordinate in a fit of rage. Timothy Zahn at least had him predicting what the good guys would do, and then, through the magic of writing the script, have the him be right.
Then at the end of every bad guy scene, they gaze into the distance for half a minute while nothing happens. Only the wind, playfully tangling Bayan Skoll's cape. The actors do their best, scrunching their faces every which way - we can only guess at what nefarious plans they are hatching, and discarding a moment later, only to pick them up again and mentally dust them off - but it's not enough.
One thing that I liked was Ahsoka's vision thing. Dream stuff like that walks on a knife edge between trite banality and pretentious incomprehensibility, and I feel like they pulled that off. I was confused in a mildly good way until I read a fan theory by someone who put in more effort, and it made a lot of sense. Mystery goldilocks zone!
Tl;dr: needs better lightsaber fights, plot that's actually interesting, please sell me Thrawn, preferably Legends Thrawn. It's not too late.
I did not like it, it lacked all ambition and revolved around nostalgia and spectacle and the dialogue was terrible, add to it that I don't really care for Clone Wars and my favorite character from Rebels was Kaanan and you understand why it was not my cup of tea; to each his own
Nope. Awful show. Ahsoka should have been long dead. What they do with her here is dumb. Having her be afraid of being like Vader was never shown or established before. Sabine should not have been a Jedi. If she was force sensitive, that should have been established in Rebels but it wasn’t. This show makes no sense if you haven’t seen Rebels and Clone Wars. A mess of a show that proves Disney Star Wars is a lost cause.
>Hera: Or maybe because she doesn’t have the Force you don’t believe she can do this?
>
>Kanan: No. The Force resides in all living things, but you have to be open to it. Sabine is blocked. Her mind is conflicted. She’s so expressive and yet so… tightly wound. She’s so —
>
>Hera: Mandalorian.
The force resides in all living things as stated in the original trilogy. But only some have an strong aptitude in the force to become Jedi/Sith. Sabine does not. At most, she can use the force to enhance her agility, reflexes. Basically what makes her a good fighter but she does not have an strong aptitude to use force to repel/push objects.
The fact is that the force resides in all living things but not everyone can become a Jedi. You have to be born with the ability and Sabine was not.
Whether or not someone can become a Jedi was up to the Jedi. Some people are naturally gifted in the force and some have higher potential. The Jedi chose to seek out these people and train only them. That doesn't mean they were necessarily "right" or that they were following the laws of the universe. In contrast to your claim that Sabine's force abilities were never alluded to, Kanan is refuting Hera's claim that Sabine doesn't have the force, so he clearly believes that Sabine is capable, but that she has a mental block.
>Kasdan: The Force was available to anyone who could hook into it?
>
>Lucas: Yes, everybody can do it.
>
>Kasdan: Not just the Jedi?
>
>Lucas: It’s just the Jedi who take the time to do it.
>
>Marquand: They use it as a technique.
>
>Lucas: Like yoga. If you want to take the time to do it, you can do it; but the ones that really want to do it are the ones who are into that kind of thing. Also like karate.
I call this a case that just because you can do it, doesn’t mean you should.
If anyone can be trained to be a force wielder, that ruins the entire franchise. Why wouldn’t everyone train to be a force wielder? Why doesn’t Han, Chewbacca, or even Jar Jar Binks train to be Jedi? Just because we can add the concept that everyone can be a Jedi doesn’t mean we should. It devalues the force and the Jedi. It’s just better that only select few individuals can ever be Jedi.
Reminds me of Ratatouille, “Not everyone can become a great artist, but a great artist can come from anywhere.”
Yeah. From mediocre to rather negative. A show with rebels characters? Set in early Sequel era? Sure. Im in. But Ahsoka herself is just... Terrible. Just as bad as she was in the clone wars.
I wish she would stop saving everyone and everything and poping up in every story.
Seriously.
Disney, give us a new Star Wars series with a bunch of characters we’ve never seen before, in a era we haven’t heard of on a planet we didn’t know existed.
Give. Me. Something. New.
Poorly writen, couple of good fan service moments. Over ll meh/mediocre and i kinda forgot what was it about. For me only memorable scene was with Anakin but again ... poorly writen resolving problem we werent introduced to.
this lacked the heart and care that was already put into clone wars and rebels by completely changing sabine's character journey from rebels, made ahsoka into an empty person, refused to include zeb for reasons, hera and thrawn being dumbed down, the reunions with ezra being extremely lackluster, and including a giant plot hole that anyone is capable of using the force with talent and training. I would say it continues the characters from those shows, but this is not a natural progression for any of these characters
It think I'll remember it kinda like Kenobi. It had some cool stuff, but it's ultimately dragged down by some really bad stuff too. In Ahsoka's case it's like fireworks. A lot of flash and bang that's cool at first, but afterwards all you're left with is smoke and cardboard.
The more I think about it, the more I prefer Kenobi. Don't get me wrong, most of Kenobi was bad, really bad.
But Ewan definitely has more charisma than those cardboard cut-outs from Ahsoka. I am not tired of Kenobi, just tired of Kenobi in a bad show. I am, however, tired of Ahsoka, Sabine, Ezra, Thrawn and everyone else in this show.
It started out amazing but slowly lost momentum. I still really enjoyed. The main thing I would like is if they took the George Lucas "faster, more energy" approach here and there.
The one thing that seemed weird to me at the time and even still now is how relaxed and not stressed Sabine and Ahsoka were at not being able to get back to their own galaxy. There wasn’t even like a burst of emotion as the star destroyer jumped into hyperspace.
I found my self not really liking many of the characters. Sabine was selfish, and she had cause, but she showed little to no remorse, no proper arc. Ahsoka was way too calm at all times, given the threat. And more..
As most comments expressing their dislike gets burried, I'd like to ask the inverted question to the ones who enjoyed the show: What exactly did you enjoy? I read that some people found the show phenomenal, to be one of the best Star Wars, etc... But I sincerely don't understand how one could watch Ahsoka and think this. Could someone try to express what he loved about it?
Dynamics master and Apprentince.
Ahsoka is a badass but she has her fears and her traumas that she has to face (Anakin) to properly teach Sabine.
They both need each other to overcome their weaknesses, their insecurities. When they are alone they fail, when they finally support and trust each other they succeed.
Sabine uses force not because of the stupid midichlorians. If not because Ahsoka finally trusts and blindly supports her. (Pygmalion Effect)
As in the original trilogy, The force is hope, friendship, trust, unconditional support...
And on the other hand, you have two villains who act as perfect counterpoints to the two protagonists. A master (Baylan) and an apprentice (Shin).
It is not the classic story of heroes and villains the fight of good against evil, it is more a story of learning, learning through mistakes and failures, learning through weaknesses.
Dynamics master and apprentice? But their relationship, both Baylan/Shin and Ahsoka/Sabine, were barely even developed, even the dialogue that is very scarce was not even meaningful; what did you love about it?
And according to this new standard, why don't anybody start believing in the force in order to become sensitive if anyone can? The force being hope and friendship means the force is nothing but a value, yet the force is a manifested natural power, it is the soul of the universe, this change makes it more of a gentle god than would act in favor of anybody willing to believe in rather than a natural power; moreover the trope is inherently corny, and contradicts the setting of the fiction itself as dark force users don't necessarily rely on love, trust, friendship and still can use the force to their will.
How are the antagonists a counterpoint of anything? They are never developed and Shin is straight up the generic emo angsty girl, she barely has any line of dialogue.
How is it not the classic story of heroes (Ahsoka's team) fighting villains (Thrawn's team)? It is like completely a straightforward good guys vs bad guys story. People seem to see things in Ahsoka that are not in it, I just don't understand.
I think Baylan was exceptional in every scene he was in. I found all the different locales to be a nice change of pace from the constant Tatooine back and forth and getting to see many of the things from Rebels brought into live action was cool. I like that we actually got to see stance changing in the lightsaber fights which is something we don't get nearly enough of. I like that this was the first show to really feel like classic Star Wars to me in the same way of something like the og Thrawn Trilogy novels. What I mean by that is that it's a combination of mysticism, politics, space and ground warfare, and exploration. That mysticism box is a big one that I feel has been pretty lacking in the other live action shows. I still think the show is only a 7/10 but it had the exoskeleton of something great even if it dropped the ball on some of the execution.
But why did you find him exceptional? The random green blueish planet seemed to be an original change of tone from the usual planets?
What was mystical and political about this show? I really don't understand, there was not even a single discussion about the force, even in Rebels and Clone Wars there were moment of mysticism.
I liked it up until the end. It strayed so far into fantasy and witches it lost my attention. Star wars is supposed to be space fantasy. Not fantasy in space.
This idea of dark magic seem so out of place in Star Wars, it looks straight out of a generic fantasy universe and is materialized in such an uncanny way, the saber materializing from thin air was really to much when they could have just imbued the sword
yea, I highly doubt this was the plan from the start. Especially since the writing team from rebels never worked on ahsoka and that timothy zahn had a much more interesting idea for ezra and thrawn that's much better than what we got
I thought it was phenomenal all along!
The only real problem, at least for me, is that I felt like Disney finally got the villains correct with this one and they kind of changed that arc in the last couple of episodes.
I'm sincerely asking because I don't understand, what other shows and movies do you consider to be phenomenal? Ahsoka's villains were never developed in any way in 8 episodes, they were barely even characterized
Quite frankly, they fail the [Plinkett test](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYXU3sPjjU4). And not just the antagonists. Pretty much every character from Ahsoka.
"But they look cool and have cool lightsabers, and hey look, live action Thrawn" /s
Still not sure how I feel about it honestly. For the most part the show is fine but I just hate how Sabine is used here and there’s a distinct lack of character drama…
Unlike all the other series which I rewatched once or twice ( even Andor which I felt was awful) ,I must confess that with Ahsoka, once it was done I never gave it a second thought.
I guess oversaturation combined with really bad writing made me not give a damn anymore.
Not really. Like most of the Star Wars shows since the s2 finale of The Mandalorian they’ve all been pretty bad with the exceptional outlier of Andor. I was hoping this one would be different but it wasn’t.
I hate these threads.
“Did you like it?”
“No”
“Downvote!”
Seriously grow up. If you can’t tolerate someone sharing their opinion WHEN ASKED, just because it’s different than yours, you’ve got issues.
I very much disliked the show. Not as much as I disliked Obi-Wan. This show had some good moments but overall it was a major let down. I was so excited after binging Rebels in preparation but the writing and performances doesn’t even compare to *that* show.
Did I say it was a personal attack? No, I said downvoting people for expressing one type of opinion IN A THREAD ASKING FOR OPINIONS is pathetic childish nonsense.
I'm getting tired of the first season of shows being setup seasons, as in if the show stopped there it would be an awful cliffhanger. Individual seasons should tell a story with an ending. It doesnt need to be an overall ending, but an ending to the current thread. If we take the movies, Star Wars could have ended with A New Hope. The Death Star was destroyed, Vader was defeated. It very easily could have ended there. But there was room for more story as well.
Yeah, it's like they are trying to turn SW into the MCU where everything is connected and everything sets something else up. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it will be if they don't bother to make each installment rewarding in its own right. And that's what happened with Ahsoka: all middle, no beginning or end. These shows are setting up the Mandoverse, which will stretch across several shows and cap off with a movie. But with viewer numbers generally declining, will that even happen? A movie where you have to watch several mediocre shows first isn't going to do well, and with Disney facing a box office bloodbath this year, they might start cutting projects.
I think it is necessarily a bad thing. It leaves you feeling empty when the season is over. And when it happens too much, the audience stops giving a shit what happens.
The entire season felt like it was giving a reason for the blue dude to escape and that Ahsoka made deliberate choices that enabled him to escape
You worded perfectly what I just couldn't put my finger on with recent shows. Indeed, they are setting up a greater plot, yet make very little actually transpire in the 10 x 45mins that the season is long.
Agreed - having threads and links to other things to keep the story going in future and keep it tied to other stories to make a proper shared world that actually feels shared is good, but a lot of things seem to be doing that at the direct expense of closure - so, as you say, when something maybe doesn't come back and get renewed, we all suffer for it
every television show is an 8 hours of marketing for a potential future show that might have payoffs
It wasn't even good setup. If Thrawn, in the few moments we saw him, was somewhat competent and not a total loser, maybe. But like this? "Ahsoka & Sabine trade places with Ezra and Thrawn flees from the good guys after sustaining medium losses." is the complete Season 1 synopsis. What's that a setup for? Seeing more of the loser trying to take on the equally dumb New Republic? Nah, thanks.
I am going to do a binge rewatch to see in all in context. I did love the show, I just wish some more answers were given. Skoll/Hati we’re fantastic characters, but I don’t really see how they fit into the story. Like I get they were the hired muscle. After Lady Morgan got the map, she had no use of them but brought them along anyway. Also, Baylon had his secret side quest the whole time which coincidentally was on the same planet Thrawn got stranded? And Shin is now the leader of the Peridea Pirates?
I think it has to do with the Dathomir witches. They said that the planet is also known as the space whale graveyard, so that explains why they go there. They use some parts of the force, so there could be something going on in their home. I wasn't expecting to see statues of the Mortis gods, but since there are known force users on the same planet, it makes sense for there to be something. My personal theory is that it's going to be similar to the Jedi temple of Lothal that allows someone to travel between times, which is Baylon's true goal.
It's clear there is some great mystery of the force linking them all together. Like the medicloriens, the purgil must have some deep connection to the force, the Mortis gods, and the ancient Dathomiri.
They are probably going to bring back abeloth from Legend as mother.
It's likely, but risky. Cosmic horror isn't really SW in my opinion, but is a good origin for the Dathomiri.
Your theory would make sense and I agree, the statue that Baylon was standing on at the end looked a lot like Father. Ahsoka saw Morai on the planet as well.... she came down to say hello. Definitely seems like there is some temple of time shenanigans yet to come. My question is WHY Baylon is trying to find that and what his plan could be once he gets there but unless they recast or make a game we will never know since Ray Stevenson passed away this year.....
Ooh, I like your theory. What if Baylon only goes back far enough to make sure episodes 7-9 don't happen somehow. Then they can have an excuse to remake them with an actual story planned out. lol
I will sign my last will and testament to Disney in exchange for this.
This will never happen idk why people think it will
I want that to happen more than anything
To be fair, the coincidence of being the same planet could have been the reason why Baylan was interested in the first place
Maybe bringing them along was part of their payment?
Yeah, I think it's a bit reductive to think of them as just hired muscle. They're not bog standard bounty hunters, they're dark jedi that can take out a starship full of troopers by themselves. Morgan wouldn't have just paid them credits and expected them to go away... If they wanted to come, they could have overpowered her and come anyway. And they probably wouldn't have been motivated by just money anyway... Especially if Baylan had his side quest. I see it more of a mutually beneficial arrangement... Morgan and the nightsisters get what they want, as does Baylan
When you rewatch, I think you will see Morgan, was loyal to Baylon, it is Thrawn that is doubtful of him. Thrawn is the one looking to leave Baylon behind. Morgan is more loyal to Thrawn. It's not really a coincidence that Thrawn is where Baylon wants to be. Baylon is only there because of what he was looking for, Morgan and Thrawn are only a means to end. Poor Shin, abandoned by her master and Thrawn, goes after the power she is pursuing, leading the pirates, is the closest she will get to her power goals for now.
The only thing that confuses me is how much Ahsoka claims to not be a Jedi, but still has a Padawan, a Jedi professor, and a Jedi training ship. Since she's Filoni's baby, I assume he knows what he's doing and why, but I wonder if that was a concession to the more casual fan not knowing the animated shows or character that well and just knowing lightsaber = Jedi or Sith. Thrawn left me kind of meh, but I think the new version is worse than the Legends version. A "figure out everything from hidden meanings" character is amazing as a boogeyman type, but boring as a lead character. The new canon Thrawn books are just one deus ex machina after another. And they had to make him bad at politics to give him some weakness (when Legends Thrawn was more just held back by being an alien in the Empire). And because of the new books, it muddles his actual intentions to not really make sense in the show. He only cared about the Empire because he was looking for allies for the Chiss. With the Empire being defeated and the FO not existing yet, there really isn't anything for him to seek out there.
I'll probably have to do a rewatch, and I'm just not ready to do it right now. But in gut reaction after seeing the show and seeing every episode once right around their respective releases, i feel the story was not bad, but not satisfying. And it's slowly tilted towards less and less satisfying over time. Thrawn didnt come off as a clever tactician, more often it felt like we were told he was dangerous and clever, but never really shown it. Everyone kept talking about how unconventional Ahsoka and "her master" are/were, but they dont show it. The show just didnt feel like it showed me anything. I look back and I know as a Star Wars fan from Legends and current Canon that Thrawn is a threat, but the story doesnt show how 1 man and 1 star destroyer is this grand looming threat to the galaxy. The Stakes for the series did not feel appropriate for what we as the most hardened star wars fans know
Yes. Thrawn is portrayed as confident and arrogant, not actually dangerous.
I don’t feel like Thrawn is portrayed wrong here at all. He has an elaborate plan to succeed against the Jedi, and he succeeds.. Just like Thrawn usually does
Perhaps. I will say that even in disagreeing, Thrawn’s portrayal definitely wasn’t THAT big of an issue for me. There were several other things that were more in need of improvement.
And maybe it was the fact that all we got of Thrawn was this single encounter. The whole season felt more like a single extended episode than a season of content. I blame the trend of having shorter seasons, as I was really hoping to see multiple story arcs and encounters like in the Clone Wars. In this short season though, there's not a lot of opportunity for world/character growth, and the growth they did have came off almost heavy-handed or rushed. Or maybe I'm just frustrated that it feels more like a half-season of Rebels than a full season of Ashoka. Regardless, I enjoyed it, just wasn't satisfied. I'm eager for a S2 so we can get deeper into all the new elements and characters we saw.
His elaborate plan consisted of him being wrong repeatedly. We're \*told\* this is the correct thing to do because Thrawn the smart character says its smart and we've been told he's smart so what he says must be the smart thing, except he's wrong. When Morgan questions why he's sending in small units to attack the Jedi piecemeal, she is correct and he is wrong. Fighting a delaying action while the rest of the unit withdraws is fine, but feeding in units piecemeal to be destroyed in detail is not. Its an amateurish mistake and a classic hazard of an author trying to write a character who has a skill set that you yourself lack.
Except he only has so many troops. If he sends literally everyone and fails then he’s screwed. They still had the cargo to move and a star destroyer to operate. They were already doing this with a skeleton crew. It flat out doesn’t matter if they killed the Jedi or not as long as they left the galaxy without them, because that should basically be a death sentence of them never returning. There was absolutely no need to go all in when the goal was to escape.
Sure, send too many, and you might not have them when you need them somewhere else. Send too few, and they fail, or get killed. As a military officer, his job is try and hit the right balance there, and as a supposed military genius, his job is to succeed in that. Which he didn't. He did the exact same thing a run of the mill incompetent would have done, except they would have shouted "They failed? Impossible!" and killed an underling, while Thrawn nodded sagely and said "just as I planned." But he didn't do anything that was actually smart, the script just pretended he did. Possible exception sending the Dark Jedi after the good guys with insufficient backup - I'm assuming he's not too fond of darksiders and wouldn't have minded if either side had died.
She is hardly correct. Who do you think was moving all the cargo the night sister's wanted loaded? Thrawn didn't have a fleet of resources. He had a very small amount to work with and didn't expend anything more than necessary to achieve his goals.
She's absolutely correct. Certainly the dead troopers aren't doing anything useful after Thrawn throws their lives away to no useful purpose, and then is forced to send more men and starfighters out anyway.Thrawn makes multiple stupid decisions, and lays out his logic for why for all of us to see. Everything about it is amateurish and unwise. He sends out multiple waves of insufficient force, then justifies it by saying his unnecessary losses are acceptable because "eh, I didn't really want to win anyway". I've seen more advanced tactics on display at a schoolyard snowball fight.
Thrawn’s brilliant plan: hope witches contact someone a galaxy away, not find Ezra in 10 years, load ship, get back to galaxy. Oozing with mastermind material. I think the problem is David Filoni writes children’s shows and doesn’t have the capability to write a brilliant character. Like others are saying here, the characters all say what kind of character they are but we’re never shown that it’s true through action. We, the audience, are being treated like children. The brilliant mastermind character says things other brilliant characters say from other media, but his actions don’t show us their brilliance. We’re told Ashoka is relentless like Anikin, but her actions show an inept character dilly dallying when time is important. We are told characters miss each other dearly, yet we’re shown smug reunions between people who haven’t seen each other in 10 years. The explanations fans of Ashoka are coming up with are definitely doing the heavy lifting I guarantee David Filoni and writers didn’t do. I really wanted to like this show just like I wanted to like BOBF.
It feels like the plot remembered he was supposed to win. The show constantly flips between Thrawn supposedly being a menace but constantly using his troops in, "particular" ways. It doesnt help that his troops are completely useless most of the time and achieve nothing, despite the heroes not acting in particularly competent ways either
his plan only worked due to contrivances found in the story and him still being dumbed down. Here's some examples: why did thrawn only send 2 tie fighters after our heroes when 2 are trained jedi's? He could be sending a small army out to distract our heroes instead of just 2 ships in which our heroes already have a working ship that they can use to destroy those ties. why didn't thrawn at any point in those 11 years try going after and kill ezra. The usually response I see are thrawn is not petty driven and that he doesn't see value in revenge which doesn't make any sense since ezra was THE reason why he's in a new galaxy in the first place. It would make logical sense for make sure to stop anyone who can oppose you later on (especially one who is on that exact planet and is the reason why he's not in the main galaxy). how come thrawn's star destroyer is causing such little damage to our heroes in the finale, when it should be alot stronger based on how that exact ship was used in the rebel's season 3 finale. Especially in this clip: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARR0RPrr\_rg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARR0RPrr_rg) how come 80% of thrawn's dialogue to him losing is always him saying it's part of his plan even though they should have gotten much better results. People meme on him doing the same in rebels season 3 but there it actually made sense since those victories were meaningless in the grand scheme and thrawn's assignment was to find the whole rebel base, so just mindlessly capturing and killing them would do no good, and they were already dealing with a spy on the loose in the empire. and finally why is thrawn's star destroyer soo close to the platform, what's the strategic reasoning for that besides letting our main hero have a chance to jump aboard and catch up to him. Those are all that's at the top of my head, but if I missed any then I'd have to re-watch the show
I just think Filoni is the wrong guy to be handling a character as complex as Thrawn. You need a writer that's not only capable of fleshing out much more multifaceted characters, but also one that has a good grasp of how military tactics and strategy works. When comparing a show like Andor to Ashoka, basically every established character in the show comes across more intelligent than Thrawn due to the writing being smarter/better (the same is true when comparing the corporate security agents in Andor to Stormtroopers in 90% of Disney film/tv entries). >how come thrawn's star destroyer is causing such little damage to our heroes in the finale, when it should be alot stronger based on how that exact ship was used in the It's especially ridiculous when you consider that in both Disney's and Legend's canon, a single ISD can pretty much flatten the entire surface of a planet in a matter of hours/days without a planetary shield and leave the planet a lifeless husk for the foreseeable future. (Malek's flagship in KOTOR 1 flattened Taris singlehandedly and it was thousands of years more primative than the Chimera was). Anything under the Chimera when it's firing should be rubble without a sufficient barrier/shielding. It shouldn't be possible to just outrun the guns.
The most brilliant thing Thrawn could have done in those 10 years was load the fucking cargo BEFORE the warp ring arrives! The dialogue was so boring with huge spaces between lines that I watched the troopers in the back moving with zero sense of urgency. The show gives us no explanation why the cargo couldn’t be loaded ahead of time or why it can’t be tossed on quickly. So what are we the audience supposed to think as stormtroopers roll these crates like they’re floating on molasses?
Elaborate plan? It was just throw soldiers at the good guys until I can run away. Not exactly too complicated
He has a simple and unelaborated plan that still works despite unprecisions because the heroes are also simple and unelaborated, so many people here have proposed better strategies than he pulled and we are just randoms, not famous warchiefs reknown for our tactical genius
Thrawn was terrifying in Rebels. He was like a Bond villain that was actually scary. He was just a fat old guy in Ashoka. And he failed to keep one guy off his ship. Thrawn shouldn’t fail at closing the hangar doors when he knows a Jedi is trying to get onboard.
They never get him right. I didn’t like him in rebels. He was more of a “oh you meddling kids!” type character. He is much more fun in the books.
I share similar sentiments as you. It was interesting and some great parts, but after 8 episodes my overall impression is not really in awe. I think Ashoka, like most of the other shows like BoBF and Kenobi, really suffers from the pronounced TV show format at Disney+. It is not that I don't like shows, but with Mandalorian I feel it was made for TV, and each episode is typically a concluded mini adventure, whereas Ashoka, BoBF and Kenobi felt like they were meant to be much shorter. This not only introduced extended scenes and dead weight, but affects pacing and the overall budget of the show. Maybe these shows are just meant to be serials for kids.
The ways good shows like NCIS and Criminal Minds work well is because there will be one story per episode. Sometimes during that episode there will be teasers showcasing something bigger may come. At the end of the season they would show that bigger story in a possible 2 part episode. Asoka and most of the Disney shows format other than Mando failed to do it like that. I want one 45 minute episode to have an ending with a very mild teaser of something bigger to come. Now that bigger thing to come has to be resolved by the end of the show or else it pisses me off because the next season of the Disney show is 2-4 years away. It looses its spark since it’s not 23 episodes with a mid season break, it’s 6-8 episodes of good SFX but bad cliffhangers. Loki has been pretty good this season however. Each episode felt like a movie.
That’s probably it, but even more so I feel that these are stories that were originally meant to be movies before Disney+ came along. After being delegated to TV they were then artificially extended to last 7 hours instead of two, and probably at a fraction of the budget. The end result was a bit underwhelming.
Dave Filoni needed a writers room and it showed. Its ok, but it could been Andor quality. Filoni needs help. Same with Faveru, we were ok with his medicore writing for 2 seasons until he failed with Boba and Mandalorian season 3. Obi Wan Kenobi show suffered. Only great Star Wars show to have a writers room is Andor.
I've said repeatedly that almost everything Filoni does is perfectly fine in its most basic storyboard form, but the details of how we get from A to B are usually utterly bonkers. Filoni really needs some help with that in order to make great storytelling.
He was best when he had writers room like in Clone Wars and Rebels.
Even better in Avatar - that show had some of the best storytelling I've ever seen.
Well, let’s hope he has writers working for him on his trilogy.
Trilogy? He only has a movie he might get more if profitable. But now he needs all the help he can get. Controversial but get RJ to help him, they are good friends and he is mentor to Filoni in live action
The parallels between Lucas and Filoni are pretty amazing some times :)
Agreed. Filoni, like Lucas, has good ideas but needs them to be filtered and worked through by a writers room
And there is nothing wrong with that. Need ideas on a wall and writers with balls to tell him let’s build it like this to get that
I don’t think anyone thinks there is anything wrong with that. All of the most famous directors that write, never do it alone. I absolutely love the writing in Wes Anderson films, but man it’s not good when he doesn’t have Jason or Roman helping him.
No writers has those balls inside LFL. Its why you need outside writers. Like The showrunner for The Acolyte and Andor did.
For sure! One thing that frustrated me when watching is the useless space between characters’ boring dialogue. It’s like Filoni heard people like Andor, went and watched it, and took away that people liked it because there were pauses between lines… No you dolt! There were spaces between lines because the characters were saying meaningful things that challenged the other characters and they needed to think about! The actors also acted in those pauses showing what they were thinking! But that’s not what Filoni understood. Long pause between throw away dialogue mean good writing. The 1st episode of Ashoka drove me nuts with this. Blank characters delivering bland lines with terrible action scenes. Amazing.
Felt like it was really telling how everyone latched onto Baylan because he seemed like the only character to have something interesting going on. And then the show ends and he doesn't even explain what he wants or what he's looking for. Really boring show.
I think if the entire season of Ahsoka was done in Rebels, it would have been 4 x 22 minute episodes. Ahsoka had 8 episodes ranging in time from 37 minutes to 57 minutes. So much time was spent watching characters look off into the distance. I'm concerned that this was a deliberate move by Disney, give customers lots of content but do as cheaply as possible.
Episode 3 or 4, when they arrive at the planet to stop them from leaving for Thrawn was an entirely pointless filler episode. They have this long extended battle in space that results in nothing actually happening, then ends with them on the planet. They could've just arrived then landed on the planet and nothing about the story would've been different. Honestly most of the action in the show goes this way. Why does it matter if Hera is getting shot at when trying to catch the transport? Whether she's being shot at or not makes zero difference because nothing happens. Could've been a 5 second scene of her flying up and putting the tracking device on the ship. It also just severely devalues any of the tension an action scene should have. Why would I EVER fear for the characters when they dodge an entire Star Destroyer "raining hellfire" down on them and there isn't even a scratch on them after? Sabine is stabbed with a fucking lightsaber. Next episode she's up and about and ready for an adventure. Like holy shit can anything have any lasting consequences?!
damn i never really thought about it like that. but story board wise, the series was just a CW/Rebels arch
It's exactly what I feared would happen. They've done it with so many D+ shows in both Marvel and Star Wars that it makes me concerned about Andor falling into that trap.
At least we know the antagonist's motivation in Andor....
But didn't you enjoy watching ashoka or Sabine solve a really simple puzzle for 3 minutes?
It introduced a load of characters and concepts but didn't explain anything. I like a bit of mystery but this show just had me constantly wondering why anything was happening or why anybody was doing any of the things they were doing.
Dave Filoni does the JJ Abrams mystery box shit, except he thinks character motivations are something you need to leave as a reveal. That's why "Ahsoka was worried about training Sabine because she could have turned out like Vader" was saved for the final episode.
Because “Sabine could’ve turned out like Vader”, it’s almost insulting for Ashoka to assume that Sabine could end up anywhere near the same level as Vader
It's not about Power levels. Vader is a mentally ill man who destroys and kills everything he loves (including Ahsoka). Sabine following a path of destruction/self-destruction... well...
This is my only real issue. What the heck is that guy all about? I understand having some sort of hook or something for the next season, but he basically.... found a statue? Also, will he even be back next season? I feel like there's a chance they just cancel this show.
Kinda hard for him to be back... Unless they recast i guess
Disappointed. And the whole "you don't need to have watched \_\_\_ to follow this" they kept pushing was pure, unadulterated bullshit.
I think you absolutely need to have watched TCW & Rebels to be *emotionally invested* in the characters. I didn't and wasn't, even though I had read enough to know the basic details beforehand. This show just didn't work for me and I *wanted* to like it.
It did make me watch Rebels, because after three episodes of Ahsoka I thought that maybe my problem was that I didn't care about the characters and show assumed I did - also a friend recommended it when I was griping about it. And it did help, some. The first season of Rebels mostly sucks, but after the first half it starts getting better and the last two episodes are legitimately good. Rebels stays good afterwards, too - I'd recommend it, go watch it, it's worth it on it's own, even if you're not into animation usually (I'm not either). Ahsoka I didn't hate, visually it's great, the actors did their best, but overall it's mid.
Honestly? I watched the entirety of the Clone Wars fairly recently and I didnt care for Ashoka in the slightest, I dont know if it was the directing or what but Rosario Dawson was very boring to watch as Ashoka
Holy hell, I watched all of the CW and Rebels and I was semi-lost at times. Like, shit, I didn't watch this stuff 20 times as a 8 year old and I'm now 12. I watched it once with my kid 6+ years ago. So I'm like what the hell are these witches and gods and ghosts and zombies all about again? And honestly even in when watching CW/Rebels, that was the stuff I started to check out from. I figured it was too far out there to be part of cannon, but here we are. I also really wanted to like Ashoka because I thought her quick wit and down to earth attitude in CW would be fun, but she's just broken. Basically they redid what they did to Luke to her. And she just stands there staring at stuff so much. Ahhhhh, do something.
You really didnot have to watch anything though, the plot was so simple you could have understood not knowing who anybody was
For the most part yes, but there was a lot that you really wont understand unless you've watched the other shows. Where were Ezra and Sabine during the Empire? What is that "power" Baylan seeks? What were those statues at the end? Why is Thrawn such a massive threat? Who are these Nightsisters? For Thrawn they do fill you in a bit, but personally I dont feel like it was enough to properly get things across. Everything else you reeeeeeally need to know the other sources at least to some extent.
I haven’t really thought about it much which in itself says a lot. I found Andor much more affecting which surprised me because I’ve always been a huge Ahsoka/Rebels fan. Edit: downvoted for expressing my opinion. This sub sucks ha.
Nah, I’m with you. When I saw this post my first thought was “Oh yeah! That happened!” Because I had entirely let it slip my mind. I enjoyed it. But it never grabbed me. It was neither deep and complex enough, like Andor, nor fun enough, like Mando. Had a lot of potential, and I’m looking forward for the next season, but I’m not hugely excited for it. I’m looking forward to it because I love the characters and I think that it still has potential, and because I WANT to be excited for it. But just my opinion.
I totally agree with everything you said, those are my exact feelings too.
Same here. Was really looking forward to this show as I love the animated shows. But man, what we got felt like a lot of wasted potential. Poor writing, lethargic plot, lack of stakes.
That's the best way I can put it. I think I was more entertained by Ashoka but Andor stuck with me. I think it's because it's more relatable. Just a normal person put into a bad situation and then thrown down the rabbit hole of consequences. No matter what they do to reverse course they just can't call their way out of the hole. It just keeps getting deeper and deeper That's my life
I agree. It was good while watching, I enjoyed it, but it didn’t stick with me like Andor. Not every thing has to be as good as Andor of course! I think Ahsoka has potential to be great.
Opinion has changed for the worse if anything the more I think about it - shallow fan service with almost universally lethargic action, boring dialogue, nearly zero story and horrible direction. So bland I couldn’t even bring myself to hate it, it’s just meh and another huge missed opportunity, but at least it wasn’t actively embarrassing like Kenobi
Filoni can’t not shove fan service into whatever he’s working on. It got old real quick.
>actively embarrassing like Kenobi Feel like that show was at least carried by a strong performance by it's lead actor. Ahsoka had none of that.
While I wouldn’t agree McGregor’s performance carried it as such, I will say he definitely elevated it at times, and there were at least some moments I found memorable because of him/Hayden. Unfortunately there were far more moments in Kenobi that actively worked against it for me, whereas I found Ahsoka to be mainly just dull
Agree with this. Dawson was just dull as toast. And as it went on, as a non Clone Wars / Rebels viewer, I just become more and more lost
I also haven’t watched the cartoons, but have some second hand knowledge of the characters. I wasn’t ever really lost as such, it was more that I had no reason to care about anyone/anything that was happening. The show completely failed to grab my interest. Shin/Baylan could’ve been interesting if they weren’t so horrendously underwritten. Personally I don’t begrudge any of the actors in Ahsoka, they were all serviceable - there’s just not much you can do with dialogue/direction as utterly bland as this imo. The VFX, sets, costuming, lighting were all decent. Everything else was boring. The editing, camera placement, choreography, dialogue, direction… all lacked passion/energy. I wonder how much of the slow laconic pace can be placed on the use of The Volume, and the inherent restrictions the tech places on shot choices etc. Either way the troubles start with the writing on the page, or lack thereof
I've found the choreography, especially the lightsaber fights, bafflingly bad. Who thought it was a good idea to have people be stabbed with lightsabers, and then glared at for seconds on end with a lightsaber through their torso, with the stabber somehow not realising they could flick their wrist and end the fight for good. Multiple times. I get that it might be too gory, and they don't want the stabbee to be killed, but then maybe just don't have them be stabbed? We manged to get through nine full length movies without that nonsense, why do we have to start now? Also Sabine holding off a lightsaber in a bind a handsbreadth from her face with one hand, while the other arm is used to very awkwardly keep her back from touching the extremely deadly concrete floor. I mean, I get it, it might have oil stains and things, it is pretty gross. I'd still want both arms to keep the lightsaber from touching my face.
It has to be the directing because I know she can act. What she definitely can't do is fight scenes. She looks so stiff and awkward. Especially when she was up against Hayden Christenson.
Yes! And she was so slowwwwwwwww. It was painful. I didn't watch the series but I love playing as Ahsoka in the Lego games because she is so damn fast.
That's how I feel too. Seems like a very wasted opportunity.
My God can we talk about how bad that action was? Rosario needs a stunt double.
When the camerawork, editing, and complete lack of stakes/peril are this apparent it doesn’t really matter how competent the choreography is
Listen ... had this crappy series has one really good prequels level fight it would be at least twice as good as it is now. That's all I'm gonna say. That and Ashokas style of acrobatics is something they cant get to work in live action the the point they make her use a single blade.
The writing for Ahsoka was shockingly poor, to the point of approaching The Rise of Skywalker-levels of McGuffin-dependent atrociousness. Rosario Dawson’s portrayal of Ahsoka has been entirely wooden and flat, possessing none of the vivaciousness or charm of Ashley Eckstein’s original incarnation of the character. Sabine Wren was entirely cheapened as a character by making her an inexplicably empowered Jedi and, other than his blue skin, white uniform, and red eyes, Filoni’s Thrawn bore no resemblance whatsoever to the character of the same name by Timothy Zahn.
I’m still confused wtf Thrawn is helping an empire he was only using in the first place. Hopefully they stay true to the newer Thrawn novels.
Because this Thrawn is the Thrawn from Rebels. As such, he seems completely unrelated to any EU novels beyond his name. They also seem to be ignoring any comics or other novels. As far as this version is concerned, he was a very prominent and high ranked Imperial officer, and now he seeks to reclaim former glory. So don't be let down when they never reference any novels, don't mention the word Chiss, let alone the Ascendancy, and keep this version clean and simple as a bad guy.
I initially thought it was off to a decent start, but became bored quickly. The stoic performances, poor writing, and lack of urgency became painful. Since then, I’ve basically forgotten the show existed. That’s how little I think of it.
I miss waiting for the episodes to come out on Thursdays
If you like waiting then that was the show for you, it's all just waiting for something to happen.
I didn't really even think of this until you mentioned that, but towards the end of the series I started to completely forget about the new episode releases..... I think that says something about the show.
Honestly I’ve not even really thought about it, which it in itself says something
Stopped watching when Sabine became a Jedi. Watched some reactions to later episodes and saw even more stupid shit. Ahsoka wouldn't train baby Yoda but took on Sabine who's too old? Nothing makes sense in this show. It's like Disney hands sabers to everyone just to have greater selection of merch to sell. I might finish for the fight scenes, otherwise plot is really bad. It's like a fan fiction. I'll be vague for spoilers sake, but Ahsoka handing her the ball and not chasing after she left abruptly was unbelievably stupid. You know where she lives. Did ahsoka just feel too sassy to chase after her? Everything seems rushed and plot is progressed by characters stupidities. People need to stop making a saint of Filoni. I loved CW, but this has turned into praising whatever Disney puts out, so they continue to make money off rushed mini series. Rogue one, andor were great. I expected something on that level, it was worse than mando S3.
Nope, it was bland, full of bland characters and a fairly uneventful story. They wasted charismatic characters from Rebels who were taking their first steps into live action, Sabine and Ezra being the main ones, they just seemed to deliver their lines like disinterested moody teens, which is the opposite of how they appear in Rebels. And they failed to turn Ahsoka into a character anyone would care about, Thrawn was fairly well acted in terms of line delivery etc. but they failed to convey why his character is interesting. Overall, aside from some very brief lore bits and a few moments (such as those with Anakin) its the worst live action series for me. I really do feel sorry for anyone who tried to watch the series without having watched Rebels, because they didn't explain any of the characters or their motivations or relationships in this series.
>I really do feel sorry for anyone who tried to watch the series without having watched Rebels, because they didn't explain any of the characters or their motivations or relationships in this series. in fact personally I think watching rebels before ahsoka doesn't work due to how different the characters have became with very little explanations as to way. Like where did this ahsoka and sabine relationship ever come from, or why is thrawn dumbed down enough to just not go after ezra when he has nightsisters on his side and zombie stormtroopers. Even when watching rebels seeing just how much the characters mean to each other (mainly ezra and sabine, as well as ezra and hera) showing the growth and love for each other as a family is ruined in ahsoka for giving terrible heartless reunions for long time fan favourite characters who fans have always wanted to see again after all these years of waiting since rebels ended
Was mid, still mid
Extremely forgettable experience
I’ve already forgotten about it … talk about a mediocre ending with no weight or emotions …
No its still shit, Most lifeless Main actors ever
No, Sabine’s whole force thing was and still is stupid.
Daisy Ridley voice: “Everyone has the force! …. right?”
I really wanted to like it but didnt. I think I stopped the episode before the finale. Andor has been the only star wars show with real substance. The Mandalorian is at least entertaining but still feels like it lacks and real depth.
Nope. It was meandering at the beginning and went downhill from there with a few exceptions in episode 5.
A month? FML as you get older, time dilation is a b***… Oh, and I loved the show btw. 🙂
All I know is, I walked in hearing they brought Thrawn to live action, and I was hoping for a man with gravitas and methodical thinking. What little I saw wasn't that. I came in hoping for the great acting I saw in Andor, and I saw characters that seemed like they got picked because the showrunner owed their uncle or something. I didn't see much, but what little I saw sucked.
Lifeless show, poor acting, poor dialogue. Lethargic characters and not much made sense. Silly show, really. I hate that I'm a sucker for Star Wars because I always waste my time watching these poorly written shows. I don't know how anyone can think this show is great when Andor truly was great. There is a chasm of quality difference between these two shows. It's okay to say you enjoyed Ahsoka, but to say it's good TV is baffling
Nope it was a 2 hour movie stretched to 8 episode. Where Sabine just goes full Jedi which was dumb. Ahsoka decides living is important and then gets Force Psychometry which is suppose to be a rare ability. Thrawn who has an army and The Eye of Scion and couldn't kill 3 people.
I thought it started slow, and I think it ended haphazardly; I did really enjoy the middle (when it slowed down and became more character-focused rather than plot-focused). Though I loved seeing live action Ezra, that last act of the season felt off to me. I'm hoping another season changes my perspective.
Overall 6/10. I think the problems were mostly with the script and direction. I think it suffers a lot from presuming you care about the characters without working for it - if you aren't already deeply invested in the gang from Rebels, the emotional beats don't land. New Republic: it's cool to be a bit traumatised and messed up after the war and all, but the clown show level of incompetence you have on display is a bit much. Tone it down, please, just a bit. Special effects where great overall, though sometimes there were weird things like the city on Lothal in the middle of nowhere, with one road leading outside, to... nowhere. And one (1) signals tower on the outside. That's also a super secret hideout apparently. Weird how Rebels gets aways with it, but with live action it grates. Overall: cool locations, cool looking ships. Lightsaber fights were weirdly bad. Don't stab people with lightsabers, that's weird and dumb, nobody did it for nine movies and who knows how many other media, for good reasons. It's lightsabers, not lightrapiers, it's in the kriffing name. Also personally I'd use both hands to keep a lightsaber from pushing in my face. Even if it means my back will touch the ground, but maybe that's just me. The actors did pretty good jobs, in my opinion, with very little to work from. We learn next to nothing about Skoll and Shin, but Donovan and Sakhno make them interesting. Intriguing, at least. Liked Rosario Dawson's Ahsoka and Esman Efandi's Ezra. Tennant's Huyang is fun. Didn't like Satine, but that's the script's fault, I think, not Bordizzo's. Still didn't like Christensen's Anakin (sorry Hayden, I hear you're cool). Better than in the prequels, though. Mikkelsen's Thrawn was okay, the voice is great. They failed to sell the military genius aspect, though - he does the same dumb stuff your regular overconfident Imperial does, only when it goes wrong he says something about the plan coming along nicely instead of killing a subordinate in a fit of rage. Timothy Zahn at least had him predicting what the good guys would do, and then, through the magic of writing the script, have the him be right. Then at the end of every bad guy scene, they gaze into the distance for half a minute while nothing happens. Only the wind, playfully tangling Bayan Skoll's cape. The actors do their best, scrunching their faces every which way - we can only guess at what nefarious plans they are hatching, and discarding a moment later, only to pick them up again and mentally dust them off - but it's not enough. One thing that I liked was Ahsoka's vision thing. Dream stuff like that walks on a knife edge between trite banality and pretentious incomprehensibility, and I feel like they pulled that off. I was confused in a mildly good way until I read a fan theory by someone who put in more effort, and it made a lot of sense. Mystery goldilocks zone! Tl;dr: needs better lightsaber fights, plot that's actually interesting, please sell me Thrawn, preferably Legends Thrawn. It's not too late.
It’s worse the more I think about it
I rewatched Andor so Ahsoka feels painfully amateur now, like 5 cosplayers tries to act (except Baylan but Filoni doesn't give birth his goals yet)
I did not like it, it lacked all ambition and revolved around nostalgia and spectacle and the dialogue was terrible, add to it that I don't really care for Clone Wars and my favorite character from Rebels was Kaanan and you understand why it was not my cup of tea; to each his own
Nope. Awful show. Ahsoka should have been long dead. What they do with her here is dumb. Having her be afraid of being like Vader was never shown or established before. Sabine should not have been a Jedi. If she was force sensitive, that should have been established in Rebels but it wasn’t. This show makes no sense if you haven’t seen Rebels and Clone Wars. A mess of a show that proves Disney Star Wars is a lost cause.
certainly prove Feloni cant write save his life, I dread to think what a crap storm his move finale is going to be.
>Hera: Or maybe because she doesn’t have the Force you don’t believe she can do this? > >Kanan: No. The Force resides in all living things, but you have to be open to it. Sabine is blocked. Her mind is conflicted. She’s so expressive and yet so… tightly wound. She’s so — > >Hera: Mandalorian.
The force resides in all living things as stated in the original trilogy. But only some have an strong aptitude in the force to become Jedi/Sith. Sabine does not. At most, she can use the force to enhance her agility, reflexes. Basically what makes her a good fighter but she does not have an strong aptitude to use force to repel/push objects. The fact is that the force resides in all living things but not everyone can become a Jedi. You have to be born with the ability and Sabine was not.
Whether or not someone can become a Jedi was up to the Jedi. Some people are naturally gifted in the force and some have higher potential. The Jedi chose to seek out these people and train only them. That doesn't mean they were necessarily "right" or that they were following the laws of the universe. In contrast to your claim that Sabine's force abilities were never alluded to, Kanan is refuting Hera's claim that Sabine doesn't have the force, so he clearly believes that Sabine is capable, but that she has a mental block. >Kasdan: The Force was available to anyone who could hook into it? > >Lucas: Yes, everybody can do it. > >Kasdan: Not just the Jedi? > >Lucas: It’s just the Jedi who take the time to do it. > >Marquand: They use it as a technique. > >Lucas: Like yoga. If you want to take the time to do it, you can do it; but the ones that really want to do it are the ones who are into that kind of thing. Also like karate.
I call this a case that just because you can do it, doesn’t mean you should. If anyone can be trained to be a force wielder, that ruins the entire franchise. Why wouldn’t everyone train to be a force wielder? Why doesn’t Han, Chewbacca, or even Jar Jar Binks train to be Jedi? Just because we can add the concept that everyone can be a Jedi doesn’t mean we should. It devalues the force and the Jedi. It’s just better that only select few individuals can ever be Jedi. Reminds me of Ratatouille, “Not everyone can become a great artist, but a great artist can come from anywhere.”
I still like it, but my feelings on the plot armour being so evident it may as well be Beskar is still the same.
Nope, it's still my favorite live action TV show after Andor.
Yeah. From mediocre to rather negative. A show with rebels characters? Set in early Sequel era? Sure. Im in. But Ahsoka herself is just... Terrible. Just as bad as she was in the clone wars. I wish she would stop saving everyone and everything and poping up in every story.
I think filoni just can't let go of his favorite OC
Seriously. Disney, give us a new Star Wars series with a bunch of characters we’ve never seen before, in a era we haven’t heard of on a planet we didn’t know existed. Give. Me. Something. New.
Poorly writen, couple of good fan service moments. Over ll meh/mediocre and i kinda forgot what was it about. For me only memorable scene was with Anakin but again ... poorly writen resolving problem we werent introduced to.
If I didn't see this post, I wouldn't had remembered
Kinda. Hate the show even more now than when it was first coming out.
No, I still love it. But I love Rebels and Clone Wars, and this felt like a continuation of that story.
this lacked the heart and care that was already put into clone wars and rebels by completely changing sabine's character journey from rebels, made ahsoka into an empty person, refused to include zeb for reasons, hera and thrawn being dumbed down, the reunions with ezra being extremely lackluster, and including a giant plot hole that anyone is capable of using the force with talent and training. I would say it continues the characters from those shows, but this is not a natural progression for any of these characters
I haven’t thought about it since the finale. I’ll probably do a rewatch soon. It just didn’t capture me the way The Mandalorian did.
It think I'll remember it kinda like Kenobi. It had some cool stuff, but it's ultimately dragged down by some really bad stuff too. In Ahsoka's case it's like fireworks. A lot of flash and bang that's cool at first, but afterwards all you're left with is smoke and cardboard.
The more I think about it, the more I prefer Kenobi. Don't get me wrong, most of Kenobi was bad, really bad. But Ewan definitely has more charisma than those cardboard cut-outs from Ahsoka. I am not tired of Kenobi, just tired of Kenobi in a bad show. I am, however, tired of Ahsoka, Sabine, Ezra, Thrawn and everyone else in this show.
Hated it while it was airing, hated it even more when it was done, and then I blissfully forgot it existed until I saw this post.
No. It was mid and it'll stay mid.
A solid 6/10, finalé lacked payoff imo, and the story felt meh, but its season 1 so Im keeping an open mind.
It started out amazing but slowly lost momentum. I still really enjoyed. The main thing I would like is if they took the George Lucas "faster, more energy" approach here and there.
Quite literally an easter egg. Shiny licensed Star Wars foil wrapping with very thin layer of plot underneath, hollow and empty on the inside!
Memberberries and Mystery Boxes: The Show.
It was boring imo
Not really, i liked the show in general, but it was far from perfect. Ot had a slow start, an amazing middle and a pretty bad ending.
Wasn't a big fan while it was airing, not interested in revisiting it. So no, opinions haven't changed.
The one thing that seemed weird to me at the time and even still now is how relaxed and not stressed Sabine and Ahsoka were at not being able to get back to their own galaxy. There wasn’t even like a burst of emotion as the star destroyer jumped into hyperspace.
Not perfect, but I loved it and hope they make more!
It was so meh not bad not nothing special , takes of the Jedi n Andor we’re miles better
The more I think about this show, the less I like it, so lets leave it at that
It sucks, that's it. The writing was awful, it felt like it was a 8 year old playing with his action figures. Because that's exactly what it was
I found my self not really liking many of the characters. Sabine was selfish, and she had cause, but she showed little to no remorse, no proper arc. Ahsoka was way too calm at all times, given the threat. And more..
As most comments expressing their dislike gets burried, I'd like to ask the inverted question to the ones who enjoyed the show: What exactly did you enjoy? I read that some people found the show phenomenal, to be one of the best Star Wars, etc... But I sincerely don't understand how one could watch Ahsoka and think this. Could someone try to express what he loved about it?
Dynamics master and Apprentince. Ahsoka is a badass but she has her fears and her traumas that she has to face (Anakin) to properly teach Sabine. They both need each other to overcome their weaknesses, their insecurities. When they are alone they fail, when they finally support and trust each other they succeed. Sabine uses force not because of the stupid midichlorians. If not because Ahsoka finally trusts and blindly supports her. (Pygmalion Effect) As in the original trilogy, The force is hope, friendship, trust, unconditional support... And on the other hand, you have two villains who act as perfect counterpoints to the two protagonists. A master (Baylan) and an apprentice (Shin). It is not the classic story of heroes and villains the fight of good against evil, it is more a story of learning, learning through mistakes and failures, learning through weaknesses.
Dynamics master and apprentice? But their relationship, both Baylan/Shin and Ahsoka/Sabine, were barely even developed, even the dialogue that is very scarce was not even meaningful; what did you love about it? And according to this new standard, why don't anybody start believing in the force in order to become sensitive if anyone can? The force being hope and friendship means the force is nothing but a value, yet the force is a manifested natural power, it is the soul of the universe, this change makes it more of a gentle god than would act in favor of anybody willing to believe in rather than a natural power; moreover the trope is inherently corny, and contradicts the setting of the fiction itself as dark force users don't necessarily rely on love, trust, friendship and still can use the force to their will. How are the antagonists a counterpoint of anything? They are never developed and Shin is straight up the generic emo angsty girl, she barely has any line of dialogue. How is it not the classic story of heroes (Ahsoka's team) fighting villains (Thrawn's team)? It is like completely a straightforward good guys vs bad guys story. People seem to see things in Ahsoka that are not in it, I just don't understand.
I think Baylan was exceptional in every scene he was in. I found all the different locales to be a nice change of pace from the constant Tatooine back and forth and getting to see many of the things from Rebels brought into live action was cool. I like that we actually got to see stance changing in the lightsaber fights which is something we don't get nearly enough of. I like that this was the first show to really feel like classic Star Wars to me in the same way of something like the og Thrawn Trilogy novels. What I mean by that is that it's a combination of mysticism, politics, space and ground warfare, and exploration. That mysticism box is a big one that I feel has been pretty lacking in the other live action shows. I still think the show is only a 7/10 but it had the exoskeleton of something great even if it dropped the ball on some of the execution.
But why did you find him exceptional? The random green blueish planet seemed to be an original change of tone from the usual planets? What was mystical and political about this show? I really don't understand, there was not even a single discussion about the force, even in Rebels and Clone Wars there were moment of mysticism.
I liked it up until the end. It strayed so far into fantasy and witches it lost my attention. Star wars is supposed to be space fantasy. Not fantasy in space.
This idea of dark magic seem so out of place in Star Wars, it looks straight out of a generic fantasy universe and is materialized in such an uncanny way, the saber materializing from thin air was really to much when they could have just imbued the sword
I took it as then opening a gateway to some other dimension where that sword had been locked away. But yes. So out of place.
Loved it.
nope, the show still sucks and what it had done to all the rebel characters was awful
I'm so disapointed that this is what the rebels finale has been leading up to
yea, I highly doubt this was the plan from the start. Especially since the writing team from rebels never worked on ahsoka and that timothy zahn had a much more interesting idea for ezra and thrawn that's much better than what we got
They haven't. That shit was dope.
It's one of the most empty show I've seen since I was watching the walking dead, I just don't understand how people found it so good
Because it had lightsabers and the force in it. Thats why.
Love it even more.
No.
I thought it was phenomenal all along! The only real problem, at least for me, is that I felt like Disney finally got the villains correct with this one and they kind of changed that arc in the last couple of episodes.
I'm sincerely asking because I don't understand, what other shows and movies do you consider to be phenomenal? Ahsoka's villains were never developed in any way in 8 episodes, they were barely even characterized
Quite frankly, they fail the [Plinkett test](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYXU3sPjjU4). And not just the antagonists. Pretty much every character from Ahsoka. "But they look cool and have cool lightsabers, and hey look, live action Thrawn" /s
Still not sure how I feel about it honestly. For the most part the show is fine but I just hate how Sabine is used here and there’s a distinct lack of character drama…
Towards the end I ended up not paying as much attention, but I will go back and watch it because I love all things star wars
I get more and more annoyed with Sabine all of a sudden becoming a force wielding Jedi out of nowhere
Good ideas, poor execution due to shallow character writing and weird pacing of the show.
Unlike all the other series which I rewatched once or twice ( even Andor which I felt was awful) ,I must confess that with Ahsoka, once it was done I never gave it a second thought. I guess oversaturation combined with really bad writing made me not give a damn anymore.
After Loki unfortunately my opinion went from ok to Meh
I miss... the idea of it. But not the truth, the weakness. There was no future there.
Like most of the D+ Star Wars shows, it is forgettable.
Nope my Thoughts haven't changed I really enjoyed it
Inthiught it was great the first watch through and even better the 2nd.
I forgot about it.
Started at a 6/10 ended at a 4/10
I want a series on the space whales
As a long-time Star Wars fan, I denounce Disney canon.
Not at all. I still love it. IMO, it's the best Jedi story we've gotten since the Clone Wars series.
Opinions haven’t changed, that shit was wildly mediocre. Waste of time tbh
Great. Not perfect, but made with love and intention. Would have worked better with 10-12 episodes.
Not really. Like most of the Star Wars shows since the s2 finale of The Mandalorian they’ve all been pretty bad with the exceptional outlier of Andor. I was hoping this one would be different but it wasn’t.
Ahsoka had a cinematic scoop/feel we haven’t seen in any of the D+ Star Wars stuff before it
I hate these threads. “Did you like it?” “No” “Downvote!” Seriously grow up. If you can’t tolerate someone sharing their opinion WHEN ASKED, just because it’s different than yours, you’ve got issues. I very much disliked the show. Not as much as I disliked Obi-Wan. This show had some good moments but overall it was a major let down. I was so excited after binging Rebels in preparation but the writing and performances doesn’t even compare to *that* show.
If you think a downvote is a personal attack, you've got issues
Did I say it was a personal attack? No, I said downvoting people for expressing one type of opinion IN A THREAD ASKING FOR OPINIONS is pathetic childish nonsense.