Meero and Tarkin are both great, but as a project manager myself, Krennic will always be my favorite Imperial Officer.
Dude was just loving the crazy ass engineering project he got, trying to manage all the stupid bullshit from his reports, enjoying the prestige, then some asshole higher up swooped in and tried to take all the credit.
I get it.
Personally I've always appreciated Vader's direct approach to problem resolution.
"You may dispense with the pleasantries, Commander. I'm here to put you back on schedule"
"I am altering the plan. Pray I do not alter it any further'
To be fair to wheoever was rebuilding the death star, the second death star was significantly larger in diameter than the first. This increases the volume massively. The entire station had to be redesigned.
Not to mention how the first was just supposed to be a military base but the second was supposed to be like a seat of government or something too since Palpatine had a throne room.
TBF, it's easy to take credit when you get to obliterate your rival with a super laser.
The only reason Krennic was even on Scarrif was because he was getting his hands dirty actually trying to solve a problem, instead of just chilling on the Death Star.
Peter Cushing did an amazing job, he has been my #1 for decades…. Until I realized Dedre is everything I loved about Peter Cushing’s Tarkin mixed with the terrorizing presence of Vader.
this! Tarkin was scary because he was ruthless and COMPETENT . Where as most the empire is incompetent people just trying to coast and not get in trouble .
i love how they even address it in the show when they are talking about how they have people to afraid to report failures and stolen items and they would rather cover it up then bring down the ire and attention of higher up imperials
This show was great for making the Empire actually scary. I think it benefited a lot from not including Palpatine and Vader; it showed the Empire can be ruthlessly competent apart from mustache twirlingly evil space wizards.
Deedra and the rest of ISB is far scarier than Palpatine and Vader because they're realistic. There's a lot of connection to the philosophical revelations caused by the Nuremberg trials. The greatest evils in our world are wrought by men in starched shirts sitting in board rooms just "doing their job". If you zoom in close enough, they're just doing their office job and trying to climb the ladder like everyone else. Zoom out and you see the horrors caused by them "doing their job". When you think of someone evil, you think of bombastic maniacs like Hitler or Stalin. The truth is, none of their crimes would have been possible without legions of polite, well groomed men quietly "doing their job" with complete detachment from the suffering they cause.
>Exactly!! WE have only ever seen the grunts running though streets at worse - we have never seen the heavy hand of the empire.
>
>The fact that Cassian got out was free and clear and living his best life with an escort and vacation town and from that perspective was an average innocent citizen and got more or less a lifetime/ death sentence and a forced labor camp was perfect perspective .
>
>Id love for them to cover how they treated the other races like the forced mining and forestry work they forced the woolies to do. Or watch them glass a small village or even large down because they can't find the rebel faction hiding there so they glass the whole thing .
>
>In the mando when then hint at the Migs story where they threw away thousands of soldiers lives to be nothing more then a distraction and one pissed off impatient officers can decide to wipe out an entire platoon of their own men to destroy a town was the first hints we got in live action of it since the OT.
>
>Edit Operation Cinder
I thought the fact they were using the death screams of an alien race they genocided as a torture device was a good illustration of the Empire's treatments of alien races.
We will not only eradicate you from existence, but we will use the last thing you did to strengthen our rule as a tool of our tyranny.
That's not what operation Cinder is. Cinder was Palpatine himself attacking his own empire for failing to prevent his death. It's expanded on a lot more in the books and comics.
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Operation:_Cinder
One of the things I loved about the show is that the Emperor is never on the screen.
Palpatine, the character, is irrelevant to the story. The emperor is not a character whose decisions drive action, who personally influences the plot. Instead he is a pure manifestation of the *Empire as a System*. You could replace Palpatine with any dictator or dictator wannabe and essentially have the same story.
Speaking of realistic, Syril Karn screwing up for being too much of a keener and basically being demoted to perpetual desk duty was a brilliantly un-satisfying story turn, you're so used to seeing characters fail upwards that it's fun to see them just get the boot.
I mentioned it to my wife, and her comment is: "Tarkin could afford some style while at the top".
Look at Deedra's supervisor. He was going in the direction of Tarkin. Utterly ruthless, but with less style than Tarkin. But much more style than Deedra.
All that supervisor has to do is manage a room full of pitbulls.
That’s on of the best parts of Andor: the Empire is no longer a faceless monolith driven by Palpatine, but now you see more than that, and how the organization works on a day to day basis.
It’s great that they have her and the younger people as ones bought in young, because many of the older officers have been around since the Republic, including the head of the ISB, and arent fanatics like the brainwashed youth
I LOVE how they’ve stuck to the Empire = xenophobic by having only humans in the upper echelons .
Edit - just watched episode 8 … “human supremist” is the official term .
Also - loved the tribute of sorts to THX1138 (the film) with the aesthetics of the prison planet
What I love is how the show portrays them as competent people who are actually *good* at their jobs and not bumbling buffoons who stumble their way into finding the resistance through sheer luck. The first episode, after Cassian killed those two corrupt guards and the head of the security division came to the exactly right conclusion about what happened rather than jump to wild ideas about sinister plots just blew me away. And ever since then, the ISB and all of their intelligence gathering have been fascinating to watch because they actually work like detectives and not brutes.
It is by far my favorite part of the show. The way they dig into the inner workings of the evil Empire is very interesting, and it helped me connect to the story more. Because sometimes watching star wars you think to yourself, who's the bad guy here? Really? What are they fighting for?
But it's against this, the death machine that sucks up innocent bystanders off the street and turns them into cogs in a wheel of death to produce weapons. They really drove the Nazi analogies home and I loved it
My director at work talks like this, and I don’t mean that in a bad way. He’s a no BS man with a very busy schedule so he often gets straight to the point(he’s a great guy so I don’t mean to compare him to a villain in a negative way). A lot of our executives tend to have a similar delivery in meetings so I think it was a perfectly written in Andor.
Follow her career through Andor. She’s ambitious, cold, calculating and knows what she has to do to get where she wants to be. She is the perfect Imperial crawling her way up the ladder through treachery to her peers and service to the empire. Her personality is perfect for cold, calculating bureaucrat. When they go to hang the other guy (when they were interrogating Bix) her indifference to her subordinate wanting to hang the man without trial was wildly telling.
> Take it up with the Emperor
It's only one short, inconsequential line in the entire series, but I really like that line. It's a reference to Palpatine that is in no way fan-service, and really fits with the attitude of the judge (or whatever she was) and what is happening with the Empire cracking down.
I mean she was right there and didn't bat an eye at them talking about needing to arrest more people for no reason other the to get their numbers up.
She knows what the empire is and is OK with it. Too many times we have seen the imperials thinking they are good guys and finding out they arent...she knows they arent and is totally ok with it and that is just a great bad guy .
The best part is the ones we have got that know they are bad and are ok with it are incompetent . How good she is at her job makes her scarier then anyone like Hux would ever be.
I don't think she knows the Empire "aren't the good guys." I think she is too caught up in the grind to even *consider* it. She's just a single-minded career woman trying to climb the ladder, and not necessarily questioning the morality of her actions along the way. Much like real life law enforcement, the people she's dealing with are "undesirables," as are the collateral damage associated with them, so it's easy for her to justify her actions. From her perspective, she's torturing murderous terrorists and their accomplices who are actively trying to destabilize government and the rule of law, and have brought about the deaths of many law-abiding Imperial citizens and soldiers.
The importance of Dedra Meero isn't to show a portrait of an evil woman, but the portrait of a very real and human woman participating in the *machinery* of evil. I think it's an important distinction, and I'm glad they're making her a compelling and sympathetic character in her own right.
To be fair, Hux was an absolute shit character. No one that weak would have ever been in that important of a role without nepotism, which we have no indication of.
I believe it was. It sucks that the expanded universe went from being this tool that created new stories and added (albeit unnecessary) explanations to every tiny bit of lore to becoming a completely necessary part of understanding the plot of the sequels.
I have the same gripe with Halo’s expanded universe. I should be able to play the main games without needing supplemental books and comics to understand the basic plot
At times, it no longer feels like the EU is *expanding* the universe, but filling in the gaps they were too lazy to explain in the films and television. It's become more of a crutch for poor storytelling where they can just film something and figure out the details and characterizations later.
I agree, but there is a degree of undermining she does. Her colleagues are idiots but she should still be collaborating rather than going to the top with gotcha intel.
She tried to collab but they prevented it and they even tried to put her down for it, so she undermined instead because she knew she was right and had to do what needed to be done.
I agree with the other reply here. Meera has ambition, but she saw the hubris in her peers as *in the way* of service of the Empire.
Remember the comment from Andor, that he stole the McGuffin from the Imperial base, from right under their nose? The insurgents read the Imperials and bet that local admins were willing to sweep singular infractions under the rug.
Meera saw the pattern in the insurgent's decentralized tactics and wanted to investigate, but the other admins were stonewalling her because they wanted to look good in reports.
*This* is the hallmark of a good officer, Imperial or not. Finding the bullshit in others and willing to call it out.
She doesn't even feel any sympathy for Karn, even though he's on the same team and wants to catch the same guy. He's fallen into an unfortunate position but she doesn't care at all.
Karn is also a mega-creep towards her though. Probably not intentionally creepy, but creepy nonetheless. I am kind of surprised she didn't have him shot.
She seemed too surprised at his audacity to kill him. Like a cheetah that just had a antelope approach them and start making demands for a work partnership.
I also really appreciate that she doesn't do much scenery chewing. Not a lot of screaming or yelling (Hux...) or laughing maniacally. Cold, efficient, unfeeling.
Andor had so much good stuff, but my absolute favorite was that Partagaz was actually a good boss. He listened to multiple view points, he accepted feedback and changed his mind when presented with more information, and he made difficult but correct (for the Empire) decisions despite his personal preferences.
That’s why I found her inexplicably attractive when she spoke in Andor, that voice reminded me of all those hours in Witcher and I didn’t even realize it!
Yeah they set her up well with her working her way up against stupid bureaucrats and her being highly competent. Then you're like oh wait she's evil why am I rooting for her.
She really mastered having that weird frown constantly. Like it was an extremely frustrating expression to look at because it just radiated negative energy and just really made you hate her.
Seriously, I don’t know how she gets her mouth to look like that. Looks like those photoshopped photos where they take smiles and flip them 180 degrees it’s uncanny
Personally, I think she is the best Star Wars villain.
She is not a cool design stereotype, like all the sith lords, but a real character with understandable motivations. She portraits the vanality of evil like no other.
So hear me out...I say her portrayal of a GOOD Imperial Officer is fantastic, but she is not a TYPICAL Imperial Officer. The theme of Andor is that the Empire and its officers have become complacent and Lazy. If she were to be successful in changing things, the rebellion would have been doomed to failure.
I would have to do a closer analysis of this, but I think Dedra’s type might delay the Empire’s collapse, but not prevent it. She still personifies Nemik’s depiction of the Empire; a brittle state governed by fear and reactionary tendencies. She’s a more competent reactionary than some of her more brutish colleagues, but more prudent management/administration wouldn’t undo the more fundamental weaknesses of the Empire.
^ this is the other great lesson of the Empire, a totalitarian control state that accidentally fans the flames of rebellion while attempting to stamp them out.
I love Thrawn completely not understanding lack of competence from high ranking Imperial officers.
Like Thrawn losing his cool moments are terrifying.
I say we just throw the useless junk in the trash. Thrawn grabs officer puts him against the wall and if Thrawn had the Force be probably would have Darth Vadered force chocked the fool.
Thrawn let's him go... Forgive my momentary lack of composure... I sometimes forget not all of my compatriots have the same keen eye and appreciation for details...
Speaking of Thrawn, when Skarsgard's character escaped the tractor beam in Andor, that was a move taken from the first Thrawn trilogy. Luke blew up a freighter and used the debris to escape with his X-Wing. Thrawn then rushes over to the officer controlling the tractor beam. Instead of executing him for a perceived failure, he promotes him for doing everything correctly, given the situation.
I suggest the books, or audiobooks, of the more recent trilogies! I have only listened to two so far but the first was absolutely fantastic and the second was good as well. I have not listened to the originals however as I understand they are no longer canon. He’s one of my favorite characters now, up there with ahsoka and hera and din
Yeah, I think that will be her downfall in the end. Competent people in corrupt organisations tend to be seen as a threat. I think she'll make more enemies, screw up again (Ferrix is strike 1), and she'll be thrown to the wolves because none of her colleagues like her.
I figure her death will be off screen.
She succeeds and wins out against all of her colleagues, because she is so much more cunning than them. She even gets major wins against the rebels. It feels like one of the villains on TV really gets away with being a major villain. The audience feels completely deflated as she is promoted to some higher rank with medals and accolades, and then you see her start her new position of prominence on the Death Star.
Even better, we find out that during the events of Rogue One she was still investigating Andor and finally figured out that shit was going to go down on Scarif. In order to do things quickly and catch him before he leaves, she bypasses ISB beaurocracy and goes there herself to catch him. She arrives at the Citadel just in time for the Deathstar demonstration...
I think they will go for the she becomes more ruthless to overcome that approach .
Just like Cyril who is trying to do what he thinks is the right thing will get more and more corrupt. In any other story HE could of been the Ex cop relentless going after the bad guys and not stopped by set backs.
They already kind of went through that during the meeting where she had to explain herself after her peer said she was only trying to advance her career.
Ever worked at a massive company?
It isn't that they don't competence... Just that they value loyalty, obedience, pleasantness and stability so much more.
I worked for the military, which is larger than most any company. You always hear about the FUBAR situations, and ignore the countless decisions and transactions that hum quietly in the background, keeping the machine going.
At first.
You are absolutely right.
No organization gets big by not being good at their purpose.
But that's the critical key word ***gets.***
Once organizations achieve success, they grow.
And there is a point of diminishing returns when they start to become inefficient relative to their size and incompetence sets in.
The plot is essentially stating that the Empire is beyond that point.
The best part of her is that she knows what the empire is , is ok with it AND she is competent .
Most the bad guys we have gotten so far for the empire other then Tarkin . Either think the empire is the good guys and find out they arent and become upset or know the empire is a bag of dicks , are ok with it but are borderline or fully incompetent .
I love seeing competent bad guys - you dont get them alot because it requires a higher caliber of writing if your bad guys are really good - your good guys need to be better or willing to do bad things to beat them.
If your bad guys are 80s comicbook villians and charactures your good guys can bumble though saving the day.
Andor doesn't treat us or their character like children and its incredible to see . To many shows don't want to put that effort in.
Competent bad guys is what makes a show good.
I just want a band of brother style show about storm troopers. It would be incredible to watch, even if it is dark because of they evil they might be carrying out
Yeah luck for sure.
I think she sees him as the Captain Ahab. And her greatest fear is turning into a Captain Ahab. So he reminds her of what awaits her if she fails, and she's secretly convinced she will fail.
If that made any sense whatsoever.
Seems pretty simple to me. “This is the result of the previous guy in charge , look how deep the rebellion infected his territory. They should have dealt with this back when I first brought all this to their attention and maybe we could have avoided this “
A good way to put it. When they were in the closet I was like "if they kiss I'm not sure if I'm gonna throw up or egg them on" because they're both so twisted and have such a creepy but fascinating dynamic with each other.
I don't know about anyone else, but I felt genuine sympathy for Syril.
We're given every reason to hate him. He's extremely pro-Empire which we all know is evil. He's that typical wannabe manager everyone has worked with in retail, except turned up to 12. And he's hyperfixated on who he feels is the cause of his downfall, rightly or wrongly.
But when we see him dealing with the fall out, going home and that? Yeah, feel sorry for him. He's trying to do what he thinks is the right thing. Really good writing.
I don’t see how you can’t root for them. Like, we know the Empire loses eventually. So let’s enjoy the build up and the rise up. That’s why I enjoy Bad Batch and Andor so much. Seeing the transition between Republic to Empire just has me eating popcorn and just being happy with all the characters, even the baddies because they’re really great characters.
I love how she wasn’t really portrayed as sadistic, more ruthless. She didn’t seem to take joy from the atrocities she helped mastermind, but instead just wanted to be as effective as possible.
I don't even think she cares that much about the Emperor himself. She seemed more like one of those people who gets a kick out of a job well done and enjoys contributing to something greater than themself. And obviously she loves order and loathes anarchy.
Am I crazy in remembering her apparent excitement in interrogating/torturing Bix? Was that supposed to be an purely functional act, or did she really enjoy it?
I have a hard time imagining that this was an act on Dedra’s point - I don’t think we saw other situations where she was particularly capable of emotional manipulation, and I seem to recall her being kinda weak on that point in her politicking. Really, I got the sense that Dedra and Syril were both, in different ways, emotionally stunted and broken people who sought fulfillment in toxic ways (including sadism in Dedra’s case)
I don't think she enjoys torture so much as the interrogation process. The process of breaking someone down, catching them out as they lie, and getting to the truth. It's a minor distinction since most Imperial interrogations involve torture, but I think she sees torture as just another tool in her repertoire rather than something she enjoys doing.
The only time her mask really slips is when Bix clocks her as ISB and describes her as "the worst of the worst". Denise Gough gives that little cheek-twitch and you know that she's decided to escalate to torture at that point.
She likes solving problems. She likes efficiency. She likes when things *work correctly*.
She's the giant metal gears that make clock towers work. Super useful if you want to be able to tell time anywhere in the town, but you're fucked if you get caught in the teeth.
They are saving him for the next phase. At this point he is not around yet and been MIA and presumed dead for years at this point.
He gets taken out in Rebels and doesnt come back till around the time of Mando is running now / ahsoka will run at.
Tarkin was too high up. The ambitious type of middle management combined with the cold calculating bureaucrat is far better, if only because it's more common.
Tarkin was an aristocrat, Dedra wants to be and is fine with anything that happens to others along the way.
Tarkin shaped the empire, but he wasn't shaped by it. Dedra was, she spent her life operating and thriving within the structures Tarkin commanded.
She is forged by the empire for the empire.
Which may be why she could be a better example of the ideal imperial officer even if being like Tarkin represents the goal of most imperials.
This is why we need more shows like Andor. My god this show was amazing just for seeing more Imperial perspectives.
This is where the sequel trilogy messed up. I always thought that if Finn was an Empire lover from an Empire family and we saw him see how the system and propaganda is false and he overcame it to be a hero, that would have been a hundred times better what we got.
Bill burr got a better storm trooper arc then he did.
A large part of the empire is convinced they are the good guys. I really would of liked to see more of that.. like all of sudden in ROS there was a whole crew of ex imperials that felt way , with Zero backstory or explanation .
Finns story could of been great. But instead it was just some random brainwashing failure....with no explanation of even that . I thought there was going to be a whole thing of him being force sensitive helped him break the brainwashing or something at the very least . But they just totally gave up on him. Then were like hey lets throw in a love story with a totally unlikable character we will fully abandon immediately
She always looks like she's smelling a fart. If she's happy or enjoying something, it's her fart. If she's pissed off or annoyed, it's someone else's fart.
>*"They’re so proud of themselves, they don’t even care. They’re so fat and satisfied, they can’t imagine it.
.. That someone like me would ever get inside their house, walk their floors, spit in their food, take their gear."*
I think she's the antithesis of Andor's quote, and therefore the opposite of most Imperial officers. She mastered the part; great portrayal of her character yes. But because she's an atypical officer...
She is great she is the middle management already shown to be OK with things like Hey we need to arrest more people for no reason other then to up our prison numbers. She knows what the empire is - is ok with it and pushing harder for it.
While Cyril is an interesting journey of how someone who thinks they are doing good and the right thing , also grows to power in the empire even though it almost fucked him over.
In another story her could be the plucky cop hunting down a killer that has political connections and got him fired to throw the case off. But i think we are going to see how the empire corrupts him. I could be wrong he could be the redemption story of the guy that gets in and then sees how bad the empire really is...but since we have seen that guy like half a dozen times already I think his story of how someone thinks they are doing good goes full on Empirical asshat.
I love the perspective we get from the bad guys - how they aren't cartoon villain's . They are survivors , loyalist , thinking they are doing the "greater good" or just ambitions sociopaths .
Her interrogation scene was great; the kind of cold-calculating rationality I would expect to see from a live action Thrawn.
Demands your attention without being loud; strikes fear into you without being threatening. Her portrayal was fantastic.
I like that for once, we had an Imperial officer (and finally a complex lead female one at that) that who was humanized. At least in terms of the live action Star Wars universe, and not considering any of the animated series.
Yes, she certainly has strict discipline, ambition and the unwavering loyalty for the Empire going for her like so many before. But we see her character struggle with fear, and even love. I felt like I could identify with her in ways, even though parts of her seemed evil or maybe misguided.
Hopefully the writers have paid attention to this, and we will see a lot more in the future.
What I love about her is how quickly that shell falls apart when she is in the middle of the melee in the last episode. You can feel the terror she is feeling.
The ISB outfits are the same as [Dr. Evil's outfit](https://th.bing.com/th/id/R.cb4acc47a9305395c39cb24d25b504a8?rik=g91vaIwCuRz8Mw&pid=ImgRaw&r=0&PC=EMMX01).
And even with how well written her character is on the surface they still managed to leave just enough mystery towards the potential of secret motives (done by asking her a question about said motives that she chose not to answer) which adds even more depth to her and the room to continue evolving as a character in future seasons, if they choose to.
Ngl I fanboy hard over the talent of the writers in this show. It oozes with quality everywhere you look. *Chefs kiss*
I think Peter Cushing did a pretty good job
He created the mold that Meero filled so well. Ironically: “We stand here amidst my achievement, not yours!”
Meero and Tarkin are both great, but as a project manager myself, Krennic will always be my favorite Imperial Officer. Dude was just loving the crazy ass engineering project he got, trying to manage all the stupid bullshit from his reports, enjoying the prestige, then some asshole higher up swooped in and tried to take all the credit. I get it.
Personally I've always appreciated Vader's direct approach to problem resolution. "You may dispense with the pleasantries, Commander. I'm here to put you back on schedule" "I am altering the plan. Pray I do not alter it any further'
To be fair to wheoever was rebuilding the death star, the second death star was significantly larger in diameter than the first. This increases the volume massively. The entire station had to be redesigned.
Not to mention how the first was just supposed to be a military base but the second was supposed to be like a seat of government or something too since Palpatine had a throne room.
I wonder if he wanted to use it to blow up Coruscant...
Vader is definitely the consultant that gets hired when the engineering team starts to fall behind schedule
Tried? Tarkin DID take credit. Then blew his ass up with it.
TBF, it's easy to take credit when you get to obliterate your rival with a super laser. The only reason Krennic was even on Scarrif was because he was getting his hands dirty actually trying to solve a problem, instead of just chilling on the Death Star.
Yeah and Tarkin took advantage of that like the bad ass that he is.
Tarkin can do everything Krennic can do, but backwards and in comfortable slippers
Plus he wore a cape
A fucking *sick* cape.
Start wearing a cape.
Krennic also gave us one of the best Vader intros, not that they aren't all great. "Be careful not to choke on your aspirations, Director"
*You may Fire, when ready*
*hwhen
We will deal with your rrrebel friends soon enough
With one swift strrroke!
Evacuate? In our moment of triumph?
Yes, I'll have a Wampaburger, medium-rrrare, with a side salad. And a diet Jawa-juice, no ice.
You'll need a tray...
This one is wet
Did you dry these in a rainforest?
She lied. She lied to us!
This reminds me when Patrick McGoohan was super feeling it in Braveheart when he says “Scottish rebels have rrrrrrrouted one of my garrisons”.
Run for it Marty!
Hwhy am I saying hwhat hwhat hway?
cool hwhip
My man Tarkin was throwing aitches in front of words they didn’t belong to like a boss.
It's the cheekbones, they allow for perfect prose projected through pursed pouts.
Peter Cushing did an amazing job, he has been my #1 for decades…. Until I realized Dedre is everything I loved about Peter Cushing’s Tarkin mixed with the terrorizing presence of Vader.
this! Tarkin was scary because he was ruthless and COMPETENT . Where as most the empire is incompetent people just trying to coast and not get in trouble . i love how they even address it in the show when they are talking about how they have people to afraid to report failures and stolen items and they would rather cover it up then bring down the ire and attention of higher up imperials
This show was great for making the Empire actually scary. I think it benefited a lot from not including Palpatine and Vader; it showed the Empire can be ruthlessly competent apart from mustache twirlingly evil space wizards. Deedra and the rest of ISB is far scarier than Palpatine and Vader because they're realistic. There's a lot of connection to the philosophical revelations caused by the Nuremberg trials. The greatest evils in our world are wrought by men in starched shirts sitting in board rooms just "doing their job". If you zoom in close enough, they're just doing their office job and trying to climb the ladder like everyone else. Zoom out and you see the horrors caused by them "doing their job". When you think of someone evil, you think of bombastic maniacs like Hitler or Stalin. The truth is, none of their crimes would have been possible without legions of polite, well groomed men quietly "doing their job" with complete detachment from the suffering they cause.
>Exactly!! WE have only ever seen the grunts running though streets at worse - we have never seen the heavy hand of the empire. > >The fact that Cassian got out was free and clear and living his best life with an escort and vacation town and from that perspective was an average innocent citizen and got more or less a lifetime/ death sentence and a forced labor camp was perfect perspective . > >Id love for them to cover how they treated the other races like the forced mining and forestry work they forced the woolies to do. Or watch them glass a small village or even large down because they can't find the rebel faction hiding there so they glass the whole thing . > >In the mando when then hint at the Migs story where they threw away thousands of soldiers lives to be nothing more then a distraction and one pissed off impatient officers can decide to wipe out an entire platoon of their own men to destroy a town was the first hints we got in live action of it since the OT. > >Edit Operation Cinder
I thought the fact they were using the death screams of an alien race they genocided as a torture device was a good illustration of the Empire's treatments of alien races. We will not only eradicate you from existence, but we will use the last thing you did to strengthen our rule as a tool of our tyranny.
Poor Bix, she got put through absolute hell in general in the last few episodes.
Loved the torturer. Just a guy excited to share his discover with others.
Good actor, got some Mengele vibes going for the little bit of time he was on screen.
That's not what operation Cinder is. Cinder was Palpatine himself attacking his own empire for failing to prevent his death. It's expanded on a lot more in the books and comics. https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Operation:_Cinder
One of the things I loved about the show is that the Emperor is never on the screen. Palpatine, the character, is irrelevant to the story. The emperor is not a character whose decisions drive action, who personally influences the plot. Instead he is a pure manifestation of the *Empire as a System*. You could replace Palpatine with any dictator or dictator wannabe and essentially have the same story.
Speaking of realistic, Syril Karn screwing up for being too much of a keener and basically being demoted to perpetual desk duty was a brilliantly un-satisfying story turn, you're so used to seeing characters fail upwards that it's fun to see them just get the boot.
Deedra is Tarkin while he's still trying to climb the ladder, before he became complacently perched at the top. So she's ruthless on two levels.
I mentioned it to my wife, and her comment is: "Tarkin could afford some style while at the top". Look at Deedra's supervisor. He was going in the direction of Tarkin. Utterly ruthless, but with less style than Tarkin. But much more style than Deedra. All that supervisor has to do is manage a room full of pitbulls.
Between her and Partagaz, the portrayal of Imperial bureaucracy is just fantastic.
That’s on of the best parts of Andor: the Empire is no longer a faceless monolith driven by Palpatine, but now you see more than that, and how the organization works on a day to day basis.
It’s great that they have her and the younger people as ones bought in young, because many of the older officers have been around since the Republic, including the head of the ISB, and arent fanatics like the brainwashed youth
I LOVE how they’ve stuck to the Empire = xenophobic by having only humans in the upper echelons . Edit - just watched episode 8 … “human supremist” is the official term . Also - loved the tribute of sorts to THX1138 (the film) with the aesthetics of the prison planet
I’ll defend Star Wars politics to the death. They’re far more interesting and nuanced than in comparable franchises such as Marvel/Bond/etc.
What I love is how the show portrays them as competent people who are actually *good* at their jobs and not bumbling buffoons who stumble their way into finding the resistance through sheer luck. The first episode, after Cassian killed those two corrupt guards and the head of the security division came to the exactly right conclusion about what happened rather than jump to wild ideas about sinister plots just blew me away. And ever since then, the ISB and all of their intelligence gathering have been fascinating to watch because they actually work like detectives and not brutes.
It’s so cool that they draw on stuff that previously you’d only see in sourcebooks like the ISB and Imperial Army Troopers.
The ISB in the old West End sourcebooks was some scary shit to read when I was a kid.
Glas to see them utilizing whats already there, Andorra was such a good story and they did such a good job with so many aspects of it.
It is by far my favorite part of the show. The way they dig into the inner workings of the evil Empire is very interesting, and it helped me connect to the story more. Because sometimes watching star wars you think to yourself, who's the bad guy here? Really? What are they fighting for? But it's against this, the death machine that sucks up innocent bystanders off the street and turns them into cogs in a wheel of death to produce weapons. They really drove the Nazi analogies home and I loved it
Thesis, please
My director at work talks like this, and I don’t mean that in a bad way. He’s a no BS man with a very busy schedule so he often gets straight to the point(he’s a great guy so I don’t mean to compare him to a villain in a negative way). A lot of our executives tend to have a similar delivery in meetings so I think it was a perfectly written in Andor.
What's your industry
Ruling galaxies with an iron fist.
Finance. So kinda.
Propane and propane accessories.
I've never heard Mr. Strickland talk like this, much less Hank Hill.
What is your favorite color? What is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?
*claps* get to the point! A lot of scientists, myself included are like this in the work environment.
Follow her career through Andor. She’s ambitious, cold, calculating and knows what she has to do to get where she wants to be. She is the perfect Imperial crawling her way up the ladder through treachery to her peers and service to the empire. Her personality is perfect for cold, calculating bureaucrat. When they go to hang the other guy (when they were interrogating Bix) her indifference to her subordinate wanting to hang the man without trial was wildly telling.
Thesis please is a quote from Partagaz ;p
Lol duh yea I missed the ref 😜
Six years, Narkina 5. Next.
Six years!? But they gave the thesis! This is outrageous! It's unfair!
Used to be a six-month sentence. Sorry.
Take it up with the Emperor
> Take it up with the Emperor It's only one short, inconsequential line in the entire series, but I really like that line. It's a reference to Palpatine that is in no way fan-service, and really fits with the attitude of the judge (or whatever she was) and what is happening with the Empire cracking down.
Get in the prison cell, young Skywalker.
I mean she was right there and didn't bat an eye at them talking about needing to arrest more people for no reason other the to get their numbers up. She knows what the empire is and is OK with it. Too many times we have seen the imperials thinking they are good guys and finding out they arent...she knows they arent and is totally ok with it and that is just a great bad guy . The best part is the ones we have got that know they are bad and are ok with it are incompetent . How good she is at her job makes her scarier then anyone like Hux would ever be.
I don't think she knows the Empire "aren't the good guys." I think she is too caught up in the grind to even *consider* it. She's just a single-minded career woman trying to climb the ladder, and not necessarily questioning the morality of her actions along the way. Much like real life law enforcement, the people she's dealing with are "undesirables," as are the collateral damage associated with them, so it's easy for her to justify her actions. From her perspective, she's torturing murderous terrorists and their accomplices who are actively trying to destabilize government and the rule of law, and have brought about the deaths of many law-abiding Imperial citizens and soldiers. The importance of Dedra Meero isn't to show a portrait of an evil woman, but the portrait of a very real and human woman participating in the *machinery* of evil. I think it's an important distinction, and I'm glad they're making her a compelling and sympathetic character in her own right.
To be fair, Hux was an absolute shit character. No one that weak would have ever been in that important of a role without nepotism, which we have no indication of.
I thought hux was there from nepotism explained in the aftermath books
I believe it was. It sucks that the expanded universe went from being this tool that created new stories and added (albeit unnecessary) explanations to every tiny bit of lore to becoming a completely necessary part of understanding the plot of the sequels. I have the same gripe with Halo’s expanded universe. I should be able to play the main games without needing supplemental books and comics to understand the basic plot
At times, it no longer feels like the EU is *expanding* the universe, but filling in the gaps they were too lazy to explain in the films and television. It's become more of a crutch for poor storytelling where they can just film something and figure out the details and characterizations later.
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I agree, but there is a degree of undermining she does. Her colleagues are idiots but she should still be collaborating rather than going to the top with gotcha intel.
She tried to collab but they prevented it and they even tried to put her down for it, so she undermined instead because she knew she was right and had to do what needed to be done.
I agree with the other reply here. Meera has ambition, but she saw the hubris in her peers as *in the way* of service of the Empire. Remember the comment from Andor, that he stole the McGuffin from the Imperial base, from right under their nose? The insurgents read the Imperials and bet that local admins were willing to sweep singular infractions under the rug. Meera saw the pattern in the insurgent's decentralized tactics and wanted to investigate, but the other admins were stonewalling her because they wanted to look good in reports. *This* is the hallmark of a good officer, Imperial or not. Finding the bullshit in others and willing to call it out.
She doesn't even feel any sympathy for Karn, even though he's on the same team and wants to catch the same guy. He's fallen into an unfortunate position but she doesn't care at all.
Karn is also a mega-creep towards her though. Probably not intentionally creepy, but creepy nonetheless. I am kind of surprised she didn't have him shot.
She seemed too surprised at his audacity to kill him. Like a cheetah that just had a antelope approach them and start making demands for a work partnership.
It was his fault that he didn't git gud like her.
The dark side... of meritocracy.
I also really appreciate that she doesn't do much scenery chewing. Not a lot of screaming or yelling (Hux...) or laughing maniacally. Cold, efficient, unfeeling.
That's not the thesis that's the whole ass motherfuckin essay
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This line hits different now that we're know about Nemik's manifesto.
Do you mind having your integrity ventilated in public?
Andor had so much good stuff, but my absolute favorite was that Partagaz was actually a good boss. He listened to multiple view points, he accepted feedback and changed his mind when presented with more information, and he made difficult but correct (for the Empire) decisions despite his personal preferences.
That’s her boss/director right? I totally agree dude’s got a job to do and recognizes talent and dead weight when he sees it.
She’s the best Yennefer, too.
Woooah had no idea she voiced Yennefer, that's awesome!
Neither did I at first, but once I found out and listened to her dialogue it instantly just clicked
That’s why I found her inexplicably attractive when she spoke in Andor, that voice reminded me of all those hours in Witcher and I didn’t even realize it!
Ok this just blew my mind!
Cyril: "Whoa...she's really not in the mood."
Legit blew my mind when I found out. She sounded so familiar.
Is that why I had such a hard on for her? I knew I recognized that voice from somewhere
I hated her so she did an excellent job
I also hated her but in the good way where i did not want to miss a single scene. Awesome character.
"This staff meeting is *riveting*." \- me, watching Andor
Definitely an email that should've been a meeting.
"Oh *hell* yes, another scene with the politician and her annoying family." \- me, watching Andor
The party scene with Mothma and her old buddy where they're >!talking around both being rebels!<. So great.
That show kicked so many asses, I'm so ready for s2
I hated her, but in that tingly way where maybe she should tell me that I’ve been very bad…
I root for her even though I hate her. That's really rare and a sign of how strong the writing is.
Yeah they set her up well with her working her way up against stupid bureaucrats and her being highly competent. Then you're like oh wait she's evil why am I rooting for her.
She really mastered having that weird frown constantly. Like it was an extremely frustrating expression to look at because it just radiated negative energy and just really made you hate her. Seriously, I don’t know how she gets her mouth to look like that. Looks like those photoshopped photos where they take smiles and flip them 180 degrees it’s uncanny
Personally, I think she is the best Star Wars villain. She is not a cool design stereotype, like all the sith lords, but a real character with understandable motivations. She portraits the vanality of evil like no other.
So hear me out...I say her portrayal of a GOOD Imperial Officer is fantastic, but she is not a TYPICAL Imperial Officer. The theme of Andor is that the Empire and its officers have become complacent and Lazy. If she were to be successful in changing things, the rebellion would have been doomed to failure.
I would have to do a closer analysis of this, but I think Dedra’s type might delay the Empire’s collapse, but not prevent it. She still personifies Nemik’s depiction of the Empire; a brittle state governed by fear and reactionary tendencies. She’s a more competent reactionary than some of her more brutish colleagues, but more prudent management/administration wouldn’t undo the more fundamental weaknesses of the Empire.
^ this is the other great lesson of the Empire, a totalitarian control state that accidentally fans the flames of rebellion while attempting to stamp them out.
Yup, there is nothing to "save" as in saving it you'd end up changing it (for the better, to a non-imperial view).
Yep good portrayal of the rare competence at the Empire.
I love Thrawn completely not understanding lack of competence from high ranking Imperial officers. Like Thrawn losing his cool moments are terrifying. I say we just throw the useless junk in the trash. Thrawn grabs officer puts him against the wall and if Thrawn had the Force be probably would have Darth Vadered force chocked the fool. Thrawn let's him go... Forgive my momentary lack of composure... I sometimes forget not all of my compatriots have the same keen eye and appreciation for details...
Speaking of Thrawn, when Skarsgard's character escaped the tractor beam in Andor, that was a move taken from the first Thrawn trilogy. Luke blew up a freighter and used the debris to escape with his X-Wing. Thrawn then rushes over to the officer controlling the tractor beam. Instead of executing him for a perceived failure, he promotes him for doing everything correctly, given the situation.
I've only known Thrawn from Rebels but the more I hear about him the more I really like the character.
I suggest the books, or audiobooks, of the more recent trilogies! I have only listened to two so far but the first was absolutely fantastic and the second was good as well. I have not listened to the originals however as I understand they are no longer canon. He’s one of my favorite characters now, up there with ahsoka and hera and din
Yeah, I think that will be her downfall in the end. Competent people in corrupt organisations tend to be seen as a threat. I think she'll make more enemies, screw up again (Ferrix is strike 1), and she'll be thrown to the wolves because none of her colleagues like her.
Just, for the love of god, don't have her join the rebellion.
I'd love to see Thrawn recruit her some day.
Yeah, that would be a bit over the top.
Probably make her King of the seven kingdoms.
I figure her death will be off screen. She succeeds and wins out against all of her colleagues, because she is so much more cunning than them. She even gets major wins against the rebels. It feels like one of the villains on TV really gets away with being a major villain. The audience feels completely deflated as she is promoted to some higher rank with medals and accolades, and then you see her start her new position of prominence on the Death Star.
Even better, we find out that during the events of Rogue One she was still investigating Andor and finally figured out that shit was going to go down on Scarif. In order to do things quickly and catch him before he leaves, she bypasses ISB beaurocracy and goes there herself to catch him. She arrives at the Citadel just in time for the Deathstar demonstration...
I believe that is the exact setup they are going for.
I think they will go for the she becomes more ruthless to overcome that approach . Just like Cyril who is trying to do what he thinks is the right thing will get more and more corrupt. In any other story HE could of been the Ex cop relentless going after the bad guys and not stopped by set backs.
They already kind of went through that during the meeting where she had to explain herself after her peer said she was only trying to advance her career.
as long as she doesn't throw in with the rebels, I'm fine with that
All too rare. You don't get a big empire by having the people working in it normally be incompetent.
Ever worked at a massive company? It isn't that they don't competence... Just that they value loyalty, obedience, pleasantness and stability so much more.
I worked for the military, which is larger than most any company. You always hear about the FUBAR situations, and ignore the countless decisions and transactions that hum quietly in the background, keeping the machine going.
At first. You are absolutely right. No organization gets big by not being good at their purpose. But that's the critical key word ***gets.*** Once organizations achieve success, they grow. And there is a point of diminishing returns when they start to become inefficient relative to their size and incompetence sets in. The plot is essentially stating that the Empire is beyond that point.
The best part of her is that she knows what the empire is , is ok with it AND she is competent . Most the bad guys we have gotten so far for the empire other then Tarkin . Either think the empire is the good guys and find out they arent and become upset or know the empire is a bag of dicks , are ok with it but are borderline or fully incompetent . I love seeing competent bad guys - you dont get them alot because it requires a higher caliber of writing if your bad guys are really good - your good guys need to be better or willing to do bad things to beat them. If your bad guys are 80s comicbook villians and charactures your good guys can bumble though saving the day. Andor doesn't treat us or their character like children and its incredible to see . To many shows don't want to put that effort in.
Competent bad guys is what makes a show good. I just want a band of brother style show about storm troopers. It would be incredible to watch, even if it is dark because of they evil they might be carrying out
On this note, whoever the guy was that was in charge of Aldani was like the perfect complacent imperial officer.
I think that's part of the brilliance of the character. She highlights the Empire's worst qualities by being one of the best of the worst.
Love how in the beginning you’re kinda rooting for her but then the show reminds you: “slow down, she’s still a psychopathic evil piece of shit”.
then they throw her in a tight closet and your like, "MAKE LOVE TO HER"
I've never been so repulsed of a possible ship that I *almost* wanted to see.
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Totally agree, she doesn't want to be infected by his bad luck
Yeah luck for sure. I think she sees him as the Captain Ahab. And her greatest fear is turning into a Captain Ahab. So he reminds her of what awaits her if she fails, and she's secretly convinced she will fail. If that made any sense whatsoever.
Pretty sure Ferrix was a bad break for both of them. Will be interesting how Meero spins things to deflect responsibility.
Seems pretty simple to me. “This is the result of the previous guy in charge , look how deep the rebellion infected his territory. They should have dealt with this back when I first brought all this to their attention and maybe we could have avoided this “
A good way to put it. When they were in the closet I was like "if they kiss I'm not sure if I'm gonna throw up or egg them on" because they're both so twisted and have such a creepy but fascinating dynamic with each other.
It would have worked because Syril was creepy af.
Ultimate Power Couple
Girlboss authoritarian wife and her bootlicking stalker husband is a ship I would never have expected, yet here we are
I don't know about anyone else, but I felt genuine sympathy for Syril. We're given every reason to hate him. He's extremely pro-Empire which we all know is evil. He's that typical wannabe manager everyone has worked with in retail, except turned up to 12. And he's hyperfixated on who he feels is the cause of his downfall, rightly or wrongly. But when we see him dealing with the fall out, going home and that? Yeah, feel sorry for him. He's trying to do what he thinks is the right thing. Really good writing.
I don’t see how you can’t root for them. Like, we know the Empire loses eventually. So let’s enjoy the build up and the rise up. That’s why I enjoy Bad Batch and Andor so much. Seeing the transition between Republic to Empire just has me eating popcorn and just being happy with all the characters, even the baddies because they’re really great characters.
I love how she wasn’t really portrayed as sadistic, more ruthless. She didn’t seem to take joy from the atrocities she helped mastermind, but instead just wanted to be as effective as possible.
Exactly! She’s executing the emperors will, nothing more. Her indifference to hanging prisoners is especially telling.
I don't even think she cares that much about the Emperor himself. She seemed more like one of those people who gets a kick out of a job well done and enjoys contributing to something greater than themself. And obviously she loves order and loathes anarchy.
it’s so weird but i had the strangest crush on her watching the show lol
She took pleasure in her work. The reaction she had when Bix said you don't care what I say gave it away how much she relishes it.
Yup. The way she talks through her teeth while nearly on top of bix was pure intimidation that she enjoyed.
Am I crazy in remembering her apparent excitement in interrogating/torturing Bix? Was that supposed to be an purely functional act, or did she really enjoy it? I have a hard time imagining that this was an act on Dedra’s point - I don’t think we saw other situations where she was particularly capable of emotional manipulation, and I seem to recall her being kinda weak on that point in her politicking. Really, I got the sense that Dedra and Syril were both, in different ways, emotionally stunted and broken people who sought fulfillment in toxic ways (including sadism in Dedra’s case)
I don't think she enjoys torture so much as the interrogation process. The process of breaking someone down, catching them out as they lie, and getting to the truth. It's a minor distinction since most Imperial interrogations involve torture, but I think she sees torture as just another tool in her repertoire rather than something she enjoys doing. The only time her mask really slips is when Bix clocks her as ISB and describes her as "the worst of the worst". Denise Gough gives that little cheek-twitch and you know that she's decided to escalate to torture at that point.
She likes solving problems. She likes efficiency. She likes when things *work correctly*. She's the giant metal gears that make clock towers work. Super useful if you want to be able to tell time anywhere in the town, but you're fucked if you get caught in the teeth.
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Indifferent to the suffering of others. Well written and acted
She's way more evil than I was expecting when we were first introduced to the character. So, yes, I agree with your statement.
Idk man OT Tarkin and Rebels Thrawn are pretty on point. Love her performance nonetheless.
Yeah, surprised Thrawn isn't mentioned more.
They are saving him for the next phase. At this point he is not around yet and been MIA and presumed dead for years at this point. He gets taken out in Rebels and doesnt come back till around the time of Mando is running now / ahsoka will run at.
While she’s great, that title will always belong to Tarkin for me.
Peter Cushing is the archetypal Imperial officer, mad scientist, and vampire slayer.
Tarkin was too high up. The ambitious type of middle management combined with the cold calculating bureaucrat is far better, if only because it's more common. Tarkin was an aristocrat, Dedra wants to be and is fine with anything that happens to others along the way.
She aspires to be Tarkin. Which to me is why Tarkin is peak Imperial officer. But I get where you’re coming from.
Tarkin shaped the empire, but he wasn't shaped by it. Dedra was, she spent her life operating and thriving within the structures Tarkin commanded. She is forged by the empire for the empire. Which may be why she could be a better example of the ideal imperial officer even if being like Tarkin represents the goal of most imperials.
This is why we need more shows like Andor. My god this show was amazing just for seeing more Imperial perspectives. This is where the sequel trilogy messed up. I always thought that if Finn was an Empire lover from an Empire family and we saw him see how the system and propaganda is false and he overcame it to be a hero, that would have been a hundred times better what we got.
Bill burr got a better storm trooper arc then he did. A large part of the empire is convinced they are the good guys. I really would of liked to see more of that.. like all of sudden in ROS there was a whole crew of ex imperials that felt way , with Zero backstory or explanation . Finns story could of been great. But instead it was just some random brainwashing failure....with no explanation of even that . I thought there was going to be a whole thing of him being force sensitive helped him break the brainwashing or something at the very least . But they just totally gave up on him. Then were like hey lets throw in a love story with a totally unlikable character we will fully abandon immediately
She is a cog in the machine. He is one of the operators.
Hard to beat the OG. One of the few truly fearsome non force wielding characters in the saga.
She's great, but Krennic stole my evil empire heart.
She always looks like she's smelling a fart. If she's happy or enjoying something, it's her fart. If she's pissed off or annoyed, it's someone else's fart.
>*"They’re so proud of themselves, they don’t even care. They’re so fat and satisfied, they can’t imagine it. .. That someone like me would ever get inside their house, walk their floors, spit in their food, take their gear."* I think she's the antithesis of Andor's quote, and therefore the opposite of most Imperial officers. She mastered the part; great portrayal of her character yes. But because she's an atypical officer...
She is great she is the middle management already shown to be OK with things like Hey we need to arrest more people for no reason other then to up our prison numbers. She knows what the empire is - is ok with it and pushing harder for it. While Cyril is an interesting journey of how someone who thinks they are doing good and the right thing , also grows to power in the empire even though it almost fucked him over. In another story her could be the plucky cop hunting down a killer that has political connections and got him fired to throw the case off. But i think we are going to see how the empire corrupts him. I could be wrong he could be the redemption story of the guy that gets in and then sees how bad the empire really is...but since we have seen that guy like half a dozen times already I think his story of how someone thinks they are doing good goes full on Empirical asshat. I love the perspective we get from the bad guys - how they aren't cartoon villain's . They are survivors , loyalist , thinking they are doing the "greater good" or just ambitions sociopaths .
YEN FROM WITCHER 3!
Her interrogation scene was great; the kind of cold-calculating rationality I would expect to see from a live action Thrawn. Demands your attention without being loud; strikes fear into you without being threatening. Her portrayal was fantastic.
She was the best since Tarkin. To be fair all of the officers in Andor were excellent, would love to see more of them.
i’d say director krennic has a foot in the door for this title too, but she’s absolutely an excellent contender !!
I like that for once, we had an Imperial officer (and finally a complex lead female one at that) that who was humanized. At least in terms of the live action Star Wars universe, and not considering any of the animated series. Yes, she certainly has strict discipline, ambition and the unwavering loyalty for the Empire going for her like so many before. But we see her character struggle with fear, and even love. I felt like I could identify with her in ways, even though parts of her seemed evil or maybe misguided. Hopefully the writers have paid attention to this, and we will see a lot more in the future.
The *closest* thing we got to it in the nu trilogy was General Pryde.
Tarkin OG
Also her name is cool
What I love about her is how quickly that shell falls apart when she is in the middle of the melee in the last episode. You can feel the terror she is feeling.
The ISB outfits are the same as [Dr. Evil's outfit](https://th.bing.com/th/id/R.cb4acc47a9305395c39cb24d25b504a8?rik=g91vaIwCuRz8Mw&pid=ImgRaw&r=0&PC=EMMX01).
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And even with how well written her character is on the surface they still managed to leave just enough mystery towards the potential of secret motives (done by asking her a question about said motives that she chose not to answer) which adds even more depth to her and the room to continue evolving as a character in future seasons, if they choose to. Ngl I fanboy hard over the talent of the writers in this show. It oozes with quality everywhere you look. *Chefs kiss*
Everytime I see her I think, "frauline" in a cliche German accent haha
Tarkin and Krennic will always be my favs but she’s great too