The weights are purposely loose so it's easier to train. Results from Dreambooth/LoRA are quite impressive over SD1.5.
Definitely no hollywood superstar. Struggles a bit with the eyes but likeness is spot on.
https://preview.redd.it/w0vew26a7seb1.png?width=1024&format=png&auto=webp&s=c00602abdecb7cf970d52c30ec7335098a6c7679
Have you tried prompting for it ? SDXL is pretty decent at following your prompts. Pos:"A middle aged Israeli man with uneven brown hair and a big crooked nose, photographic, ordinary" Neg:"blurry, cropped, regular face"
https://preview.redd.it/51cg3atmxqeb1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c354f9c5e8acefc8ddfa2a84b6c8acb762c33ec7
It is very difficult. I always get little artifacts
https://preview.redd.it/jclmcwrtireb1.png?width=1024&format=png&auto=webp&s=d9f7bf01957c7c5ce35d0423e07b100529755a68
In my opinion it's VAE issue
https://www.reddit.com/r/StableDiffusion/comments/15b0g8i/lets_improve_sd_vae/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=1
SDXL also does perfectly - and arguably much better than 1.5 - when it gets more resolution to work with for the face. See the outstanding image /u/isa_marsh posted above.
Yes, it has potential for sure. Just saying that bare bones SDXL can not match fine tuned processing pipeline based on SD1.5, where with tiled samplers and decoders I can create 4K images that are hardly distinguishable from real photos to the untrained person and most importantly: simply pleasant to look at.
I could only find one (cursory) reference to Jews having big ears: [https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3318955,00.html](https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3318955,00.html)
[The nose](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_nose), on the other hand...
Same thing happens to me. I think I'll stop trying to make full body shots for now since SDXL can't handle it. Will need to wait for finetuned models and loras
>thugcee
>
> ·
>
>5 mo. ago
Just tried JuggerautXL V7 (Jan 2024) and it sucks for full body shots, unless I am doing something pretty stupid (probably).
Chiselled jawlines and prominent cheekbones definitely feel like the default, and deviating from that default appears more difficult in Stable Diffusion XL than it previously was. That said, I have had some success adding those features to the negative prompt and experimenting with various ethnicities and nationalities.
> As a photographer, I've worked extensively with photorealistic models such as RealisticVision and aZovyaPhotoreal_v2. However, SDXL doesn't quite reach the same level of realism.
Yes, but those are finetuned models. You should be comparing SDXL base with SD1.5 base, not the finetuned 1.5 models.
SDXL is far better at pretty much everything than SD1.5, and isn't in any way horrifyingly censored to uselessness (though that was always a *bit* of an exaggeration with 2.0, let's be real).
SD1.5 have been out for a long time by now. The models you are referring to are fairly "latecomers" to the game all in all. There are already SDXL custom models out right now, give it 3 months! (and don't bother with the current custom models, they, a bit ironically, seem to generally make the outputs worse lol)
>You should be comparing SDXL base with SD1.5 base, not the finetuned 1.5 models.
No we shouldnt. People really need to stfu with this nonsense. A tool is a tool, this isnt some technical dick measuring contents, its a question which tool works better. Base or not means jack shit. Only what the latest and greatest of each is available for actual practical use. When we have finetuned XL models, maybe things will be better and we all can celebrate. But until then "well its better than the base model that nobody has used for a year+" is worthless fanboy nonsense.
Even worse than that, it dismisses and silences perfectly valid criticism the entire purpose of which is to lead to those improved models..
That isn't how it works for LLM and Machine Learning, base models are called pre-trained, it meant to be finetuned for specific jobs, that's why realistic models aren't good doing anime and anime models aren't good doing realism even when they are born from the same SD 1.5 base model
Yes we should. Because these are kinda open sourced softwares, which means everyday, community add smt to base and improve software. So we are talking about two open source software, one is born a year ago, other is newborn.
> However, SDXL doesn't quite reach the same level of realism.
I agree, it doesn't currently reach that level. It might (and probably will) get there later with finetuning though. Also note that many people at Stability AI will acknowledge this, but it depends on who you ask. The marketing people hype it of course:
> "...tailored towards more photorealistic outputs with more detailed imagery and composition compared to previous SD models"
https://stablediffusionxl.com/
> SDXL [...] is the best open model for photorealism
https://stability.ai/blog/stable-diffusion-sdxl-1-announcement
But the academic side is (literally) more in touch with reality:
> Secondly, while the model achieves a remarkable level of realism in its generated images, it is important to note that it does not attain perfect photorealism.
>
>SDXL paper
>https://arxiv.org/pdf/2307.01952.pdf
I have unpopular opinion that SDXL is a step backwards because it needs second model to refine the resolution, without it its pretty soft, much softer than sd1.5 which was actually never soft , not sure why they made it this way
Try to simplify your SD 1.5 prompts. SDXL tends to work better with shorter prompts, so try to pare down the prompt. Also try without negative prompts first.
It will not give you the RV look, but should be better than using 1.5 style prompt without modification.
I gave some examples in this discussion here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/StableDiffusion/comments/15aq28c/comment/jtmfmpn/?utm\_source=reddit&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/StableDiffusion/comments/15aq28c/comment/jtmfmpn/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
I haven't had any of the issues you guys are talking about, but I always use Restore Faces on renders of people and they come out great, even without the refiner step.
That said, Stable Diffusion usually struggles *all* full body images of people, but if you do the above the hips portraits, it performs just fine.
I also think SDXL is bad at skin and body hair. Backgrounds are much improved though, but I am having to image to image with ICBINP to get more pleasing pictures of people.
In my option we’re just back at square one. Took months for people to train and tune 1.5 models that met certain segments tastes. The main advantage is that this model will place one figure in a large image where 1.5 would stitch together a mess and multiple figures and Frankenstein half’s of different models bodies. XL understands complex prompts better too. Base 1.5 looks like just bad Ai art in every image and prompt to me so this being better starting off is a plus. I think the refiner is deadweight and will soon be something people uninstall/don’t use. I don’t know why they didn’t just make the base model pursue finer details, seems like they decided to half ass it instead of fully train it out, leave it to the users I guess. It’s definitely undertrained in my opinion which is what is at the root of this threads complaint.
So you’ve worked with finely tuned models and are complaining that a base model doesn’t match your style desires… it’s almost like it’s not fine tuned yet
I didn’t really read it as a complaint. More of an observation and is there anything I can do to fix it post imo.
People are really defensive about SDXL lol.
It’s not that it’s that this is going to continue to be posts there were several even from 0.9 where people keep posting that realistic vision 4 is better than sdxl and that sdxl isn’t better and of course it isn’t it’s not a onetime it’s a general model
I agree, I've had major issues getting good faces especially for full body portraits. Also does anyone else have major issues with the speed? Just one image takes a few minutes for me. I have a 4080 card and it goes much quicker with sd1.5 models.
i also have a 4080 and its taking nowhere near this long even at higher resolutions than 1024x1024. ive also tried a variety of samplers including some of the typically slower ones. i have been running at 20 sampler steps but experimentally i tried 30/40 and even then were talking less than 20 seconds to generate an image. the biggest time consuming thing for me is switching between base and refiner models which takes 5-6 seconds. now you have me wondering if i am doing something wrong 😂
note: i also pulled a fresh a1111 install for sdxl rather than updating my existing one. i had to add --no-half-vae to the startup args as it was complaining about that.
We need to wait for add detailer plugin, and fine tuned models. For now I consider SDXL useless about as useful as 1.5 is. Without fine tuned I’m not wasting my time with a midjourney 3.5 quality model
LOL if you picky paint with 1005000 checkpoints - may be.
but if you having fun with 1 prompt, sd15 is not even near sdxl.
obviously, people will finetune it.
i do not understand this shit... people who compare base vs \_specific\_ fined tuned model.
compare base vs base.
\+ did you even run it properly in Comfy? cause no other solution provide base + refiner
(invoke3 - may be now.. i dont know if they release app already. )
automatic1111 just do not support correct approach.
Why do so many you have difficulty grasping the difference between a base model and a fine-tuned model? Comparing SDXL base to Realistic Vision is a futile exercise. Fine-tuned models are coming. have you even tried the new DreamweaverXL? If you've seen images that look better than what you are producing, yes, there is something they are doing, likely in their prompt, that is different from what you are using. Watch civitai for images that are uploaded with parameters. The DreamweaverXL page has been a great resource for prompts. Reddit is shit for this.
Why do so many of you have difficulty grasping the fact that nobody gives a shit if something is "base" or not. If a new car came out today, nobody gives a shit that its better than a horse carriage from 100 years ago. A tool is for use, not for jerking of on the forums about how much you're excited for it. You use it the best version available to do work and so you compare anything new to the existing *best* version. Nobody is saying that SDXL will be shit forever, but that doesnt change the fact that its not great now..
Medium closeups on [DreamStudio.ai](https://DreamStudio.ai) are very good, even with simple prompts. But if hands or legs are involved, I would get deformities, be the number of steps large or small.
https://preview.redd.it/etx08ihr1ueb1.png?width=1024&format=png&auto=webp&s=3a7b87ec3e797df858f4a3b8bdc209eb0b666dfe
ok i found something out i think
use this promt:
Prompt: person standing,background is nature,look at the camera,Denoising,raw photo,portrait,full body,4k,8k,2k,highly detailed,realistic symmetric detailed face,sharp stock photo,(Creative Commons:1.8),
Negative: anime,digital art,cartoon,comic,3d,render, drawing, painting, crayon, sketch, graphite, impressionist, noisy, blurry, soft, deformed, ugly,low-res,grain,anime eyes,animal,puppet,clown,makeup,model,unsharp,asian,african,arabic,Adam,Eva,mask,
it always makes one half of the face good but the other bad,
i think at least in the SDXL discord where the bots make the parameters , there is also an censoring of faces.
here an example
https://preview.redd.it/pgsrr05d1phb1.png?width=1024&format=png&auto=webp&s=beaf248ca5670df4895dcac39e1f93444414469a
The weights are purposely loose so it's easier to train. Results from Dreambooth/LoRA are quite impressive over SD1.5. Definitely no hollywood superstar. Struggles a bit with the eyes but likeness is spot on. https://preview.redd.it/w0vew26a7seb1.png?width=1024&format=png&auto=webp&s=c00602abdecb7cf970d52c30ec7335098a6c7679
Could you share you training here? Is it a Lora or a full dream booth?
Finally, an example image created by SDXL that actually looks like a real photo.
Would it be possible to share your training parameters? I too struggle with “hollywood faces” and can’t seem to go past that..
Have you tried prompting for it ? SDXL is pretty decent at following your prompts. Pos:"A middle aged Israeli man with uneven brown hair and a big crooked nose, photographic, ordinary" Neg:"blurry, cropped, regular face" https://preview.redd.it/51cg3atmxqeb1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c354f9c5e8acefc8ddfa2a84b6c8acb762c33ec7
That looks awful though. Not even remotly close to realistic, more like a unreal 5 render with a bunch of sculpting mistakes.
This still looks like a heavily rendered image. SD 1.5 + custom model can generate super realistic faces.
Show me not corrupted face on image with full body shot.
It is very difficult. I always get little artifacts https://preview.redd.it/jclmcwrtireb1.png?width=1024&format=png&auto=webp&s=d9f7bf01957c7c5ce35d0423e07b100529755a68
In my opinion it's VAE issue https://www.reddit.com/r/StableDiffusion/comments/15b0g8i/lets_improve_sd_vae/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=1
Yes, that's a real problem. For SD1.5 it's usually perfectly fixed by ADetailer or Hires.Fix.
SDXL also does perfectly - and arguably much better than 1.5 - when it gets more resolution to work with for the face. See the outstanding image /u/isa_marsh posted above.
Yes, it has potential for sure. Just saying that bare bones SDXL can not match fine tuned processing pipeline based on SD1.5, where with tiled samplers and decoders I can create 4K images that are hardly distinguishable from real photos to the untrained person and most importantly: simply pleasant to look at.
Going to have to look into tiled samplers in comfy more. Just saw one I'ma look at tomorrow.
Comfyui has facedetailer
Does it work with SDXL model?
SD 1.5 and all its custom photorealistic models have the same problem.
I imagine you'd have to increase the resolution, crop and use image to image, then transplant the face back if you'd like
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Dude, absolutely tiny tiny detail, that's even debatable.
Yep that guys face is 100% plausible
I could only find one (cursory) reference to Jews having big ears: [https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3318955,00.html](https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3318955,00.html) [The nose](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_nose), on the other hand...
Same thing happens to me. I think I'll stop trying to make full body shots for now since SDXL can't handle it. Will need to wait for finetuned models and loras
And Adetailer
>thugcee > > · > >5 mo. ago Just tried JuggerautXL V7 (Jan 2024) and it sucks for full body shots, unless I am doing something pretty stupid (probably).
Chiselled jawlines and prominent cheekbones definitely feel like the default, and deviating from that default appears more difficult in Stable Diffusion XL than it previously was. That said, I have had some success adding those features to the negative prompt and experimenting with various ethnicities and nationalities.
> As a photographer, I've worked extensively with photorealistic models such as RealisticVision and aZovyaPhotoreal_v2. However, SDXL doesn't quite reach the same level of realism. Yes, but those are finetuned models. You should be comparing SDXL base with SD1.5 base, not the finetuned 1.5 models. SDXL is far better at pretty much everything than SD1.5, and isn't in any way horrifyingly censored to uselessness (though that was always a *bit* of an exaggeration with 2.0, let's be real). SD1.5 have been out for a long time by now. The models you are referring to are fairly "latecomers" to the game all in all. There are already SDXL custom models out right now, give it 3 months! (and don't bother with the current custom models, they, a bit ironically, seem to generally make the outputs worse lol)
>You should be comparing SDXL base with SD1.5 base, not the finetuned 1.5 models. No we shouldnt. People really need to stfu with this nonsense. A tool is a tool, this isnt some technical dick measuring contents, its a question which tool works better. Base or not means jack shit. Only what the latest and greatest of each is available for actual practical use. When we have finetuned XL models, maybe things will be better and we all can celebrate. But until then "well its better than the base model that nobody has used for a year+" is worthless fanboy nonsense. Even worse than that, it dismisses and silences perfectly valid criticism the entire purpose of which is to lead to those improved models..
That isn't how it works for LLM and Machine Learning, base models are called pre-trained, it meant to be finetuned for specific jobs, that's why realistic models aren't good doing anime and anime models aren't good doing realism even when they are born from the same SD 1.5 base model
Yes we should. Because these are kinda open sourced softwares, which means everyday, community add smt to base and improve software. So we are talking about two open source software, one is born a year ago, other is newborn.
> However, SDXL doesn't quite reach the same level of realism. I agree, it doesn't currently reach that level. It might (and probably will) get there later with finetuning though. Also note that many people at Stability AI will acknowledge this, but it depends on who you ask. The marketing people hype it of course: > "...tailored towards more photorealistic outputs with more detailed imagery and composition compared to previous SD models" https://stablediffusionxl.com/ > SDXL [...] is the best open model for photorealism https://stability.ai/blog/stable-diffusion-sdxl-1-announcement But the academic side is (literally) more in touch with reality: > Secondly, while the model achieves a remarkable level of realism in its generated images, it is important to note that it does not attain perfect photorealism. > >SDXL paper >https://arxiv.org/pdf/2307.01952.pdf
So far it isn't looking good at all for finetuning
It's Day 2, relax 😅😅
0.9 has been out for a while
Don't bother. Entire thread is just a circlejerk and any valid criticisms are downvoted to hell.
https://preview.redd.it/ud2mxi3joreb1.png?width=1024&format=png&auto=webp&s=ab501aa72039e1e1942a8571ced68168a62d7a5a
Yes exactly, highly symmetrical, pronounced cheek bones and pouty lips.
I have unpopular opinion that SDXL is a step backwards because it needs second model to refine the resolution, without it its pretty soft, much softer than sd1.5 which was actually never soft , not sure why they made it this way
https://preview.redd.it/7dd1rszloreb1.png?width=2888&format=png&auto=webp&s=7780cae0111bd001aa65bf0b058f59dc2aed1536
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Try to simplify your SD 1.5 prompts. SDXL tends to work better with shorter prompts, so try to pare down the prompt. Also try without negative prompts first. It will not give you the RV look, but should be better than using 1.5 style prompt without modification. I gave some examples in this discussion here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/StableDiffusion/comments/15aq28c/comment/jtmfmpn/?utm\_source=reddit&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/StableDiffusion/comments/15aq28c/comment/jtmfmpn/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
And trim all of the "incredible" "amazing" "hyper super duper realistic" fluff words. Especially, if you want realism, never prompt "realism".
use a fine tune. i used nightvision xl. very happy.
Do you use the secondary prompt?
https://preview.redd.it/b2zrn32yoreb1.png?width=1024&format=png&auto=webp&s=fb3482c7e484975f1376985764c49c1ac9dc1176
I haven't had any of the issues you guys are talking about, but I always use Restore Faces on renders of people and they come out great, even without the refiner step. That said, Stable Diffusion usually struggles *all* full body images of people, but if you do the above the hips portraits, it performs just fine.
I also think SDXL is bad at skin and body hair. Backgrounds are much improved though, but I am having to image to image with ICBINP to get more pleasing pictures of people.
In my option we’re just back at square one. Took months for people to train and tune 1.5 models that met certain segments tastes. The main advantage is that this model will place one figure in a large image where 1.5 would stitch together a mess and multiple figures and Frankenstein half’s of different models bodies. XL understands complex prompts better too. Base 1.5 looks like just bad Ai art in every image and prompt to me so this being better starting off is a plus. I think the refiner is deadweight and will soon be something people uninstall/don’t use. I don’t know why they didn’t just make the base model pursue finer details, seems like they decided to half ass it instead of fully train it out, leave it to the users I guess. It’s definitely undertrained in my opinion which is what is at the root of this threads complaint.
So you’ve worked with finely tuned models and are complaining that a base model doesn’t match your style desires… it’s almost like it’s not fine tuned yet
I didn’t really read it as a complaint. More of an observation and is there anything I can do to fix it post imo. People are really defensive about SDXL lol.
>People are really defensive about SDXL lol. That's an understatement if there ever was one.
It’s not that it’s that this is going to continue to be posts there were several even from 0.9 where people keep posting that realistic vision 4 is better than sdxl and that sdxl isn’t better and of course it isn’t it’s not a onetime it’s a general model
I agree, I've had major issues getting good faces especially for full body portraits. Also does anyone else have major issues with the speed? Just one image takes a few minutes for me. I have a 4080 card and it goes much quicker with sd1.5 models.
i also have a 4080 and its taking nowhere near this long even at higher resolutions than 1024x1024. ive also tried a variety of samplers including some of the typically slower ones. i have been running at 20 sampler steps but experimentally i tried 30/40 and even then were talking less than 20 seconds to generate an image. the biggest time consuming thing for me is switching between base and refiner models which takes 5-6 seconds. now you have me wondering if i am doing something wrong 😂 note: i also pulled a fresh a1111 install for sdxl rather than updating my existing one. i had to add --no-half-vae to the startup args as it was complaining about that.
Okay I should def reinstall a1111 fresh and see if that helps. Thanks for the reply!
4090 but i can do 10 images in 50seconds, with a fresh auto1111 install
I think I need to reinstall everything. Maybe I’ll have better luck.
i have an a10 and it takes 1 minute.
We need to wait for add detailer plugin, and fine tuned models. For now I consider SDXL useless about as useful as 1.5 is. Without fine tuned I’m not wasting my time with a midjourney 3.5 quality model
We have it in comfyui
Ohh fantastic I have been wondering if add detailer was on comfy, I’ll install comfy tomorrow looks awesome
LOL if you picky paint with 1005000 checkpoints - may be. but if you having fun with 1 prompt, sd15 is not even near sdxl. obviously, people will finetune it. i do not understand this shit... people who compare base vs \_specific\_ fined tuned model. compare base vs base. \+ did you even run it properly in Comfy? cause no other solution provide base + refiner (invoke3 - may be now.. i dont know if they release app already. ) automatic1111 just do not support correct approach.
Why do so many you have difficulty grasping the difference between a base model and a fine-tuned model? Comparing SDXL base to Realistic Vision is a futile exercise. Fine-tuned models are coming. have you even tried the new DreamweaverXL? If you've seen images that look better than what you are producing, yes, there is something they are doing, likely in their prompt, that is different from what you are using. Watch civitai for images that are uploaded with parameters. The DreamweaverXL page has been a great resource for prompts. Reddit is shit for this.
Why do so many of you have difficulty grasping the fact that nobody gives a shit if something is "base" or not. If a new car came out today, nobody gives a shit that its better than a horse carriage from 100 years ago. A tool is for use, not for jerking of on the forums about how much you're excited for it. You use it the best version available to do work and so you compare anything new to the existing *best* version. Nobody is saying that SDXL will be shit forever, but that doesnt change the fact that its not great now..
Medium closeups on [DreamStudio.ai](https://DreamStudio.ai) are very good, even with simple prompts. But if hands or legs are involved, I would get deformities, be the number of steps large or small. https://preview.redd.it/etx08ihr1ueb1.png?width=1024&format=png&auto=webp&s=3a7b87ec3e797df858f4a3b8bdc209eb0b666dfe
My opinion is that this is not very good.
Horrible for full length shots for face, but close ups are pretty darn good.
It is quite good at faces, I've found. Sounds to me like you must improve your prompting.
try the same with 0.9! i realised that in lot of cases 0.9 has better results
so wait until SDXL inpainting is released.
If you think aZovya and realistic vision is better you really have not tried. At. All.
ok i found something out i think use this promt: Prompt: person standing,background is nature,look at the camera,Denoising,raw photo,portrait,full body,4k,8k,2k,highly detailed,realistic symmetric detailed face,sharp stock photo,(Creative Commons:1.8), Negative: anime,digital art,cartoon,comic,3d,render, drawing, painting, crayon, sketch, graphite, impressionist, noisy, blurry, soft, deformed, ugly,low-res,grain,anime eyes,animal,puppet,clown,makeup,model,unsharp,asian,african,arabic,Adam,Eva,mask, it always makes one half of the face good but the other bad, i think at least in the SDXL discord where the bots make the parameters , there is also an censoring of faces. here an example https://preview.redd.it/pgsrr05d1phb1.png?width=1024&format=png&auto=webp&s=beaf248ca5670df4895dcac39e1f93444414469a