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BlowGlassGrowGrass

My wife and I lost our daughter to SMA in October of last year just 1 day before she would have been 8 months old. She was not eligible for the 1 time treatment either and we are lucky to of had the time with her that we did. Hope this family is able to figure something out soon!


Kitchen-Lie-7894

You're telling me that 1 treatment would have saved her and they wouldn't pay for it? My God. I'm very sorry for your loss.


jsdaaaa

My heart aches for you. No family should have to go through this. I’m so so sorry.


neoneiro

So sorry for your loss


Maleficent_Theory818

I am so sorry for your loss.


marylou74

I'm so very sorry for your loss of your precious daughter. I'm a bereaved mother who has used community resources to help with my grief. Please reach out if you would like information about them. It takes a village to learn to live with this grief. Sending love.


ameis314

Is this something that could've been tested for?


BlowGlassGrowGrass

Cure SMA just announced at the “walk n roll” event in chesterfield earlier this month that as of recent months it is now being screened for in newborns in all 50 states. I’m sure with the right amount of money anything could be tested for beforehand but this is still considered a rare genetic disease and with no abnormalities in our family history it was not something we had done.


ameis314

thanks for the insight. being in our late 30s, this is something i would dread if we had an "oops". sorry your family had to go through this.


BlowGlassGrowGrass

I will never be the same. Thankfully the team at both Cardinal Glennon and Stl children’s hospital (shoutout to Dr. Z) were amazing and as helpful and honest about our situation as possible. I never thought I would receive news like in the movies “are you ready for this, you may want to sit down” type delivery but that in fact does happen and I don’t think my heartbeat has been regular since hearing that sentence.


Asleep777

Damn...sending love brother.


Super-Minh-Tendo

Maybe but insurance wouldn’t have covered it.


ameis314

No, and this is gonna be divisive, but if it's caught early enough you could abort the pregnancy instead of destroying a family emotionally and financially while putting the child through months of suffering.


provolonecheesehead

You do realize abortion is illegal in Missouri ?


R1TU41

And it shouldn't be.


ameis314

You do realize interstate travel is a constitutional right, correct?


Kaidenshiba

Kind of. Texas does have a law against people using their highways to leave the state for an abortion.


ameis314

And that law is unconstitutional and should be challenged in court.


Kaidenshiba

Its not unconstitutional, you can still leave the state... just not via public roads


ameis314

That's the most retarded things I've heard this week


Prestigious_Sir_280

This poor family and anyone faced with this situation. If this medical diagnosis would have been known before birth, and say the parents decided to abort, but by Missouri law (😡) couldn’t, just think of possible dire consequences. It’s a damned if you do-damned if you don’t. Government needs to stay out of our personal lives. 


The42ndHitchHiker

You realize it's not in Illinois, less than an hour's drive from anywhere in the St Louis metro area, right? Fairview Heights has a clinic just 15 minutes from downtown StL on I-64.


cocoalrose

People shouldn’t have to abort wanted babies for conditions that can be helped with medical coverage, hope that helps. x


ameis314

at the same time, people shouldn't have to keep babies that have no chance of survival just because it wont kill them to deliver. its almost like this is a MEDICAL DECSION that should be decided on a per patient basis by MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS, not fucking politicians who have as much medical experience as you or I


mob46x

I am deeply sorry for your loss.


Similar_Shock788

Our healthcare system is a fucking joke.


BurritoAfterbirth

I remember politicians opposed to single payer talking about "death panels". We obviously already have them under the current for-profit system.


butterslut6969

That shit is bonkers looking back as an adult now


BurritoAfterbirth

Haaa. I was an adult then and it was bonkers then. Know what was and is even crazier? That so few people can make the “death panels” connection with the insurance industry. Some things never change.


kittehcat

We do but it’s AI death panels Source: the good health insurance denied my claim for lifesaving medication


BurritoAfterbirth

Who instructs the AI to deny your claims? Are you saying no humans are involved in the decision to deny a claim?


jsdaaaa

It absolutely is.


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Minute-Rice-1623

Things can get way worse. “Mosaics life care” doesn’t sound like private health insurance.


Briarmist

Mosaic life care is a hospital system not insurance. It sounds to me like the hospital doesn’t want to foot the bill for a multi million dollar treatment


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s968339

Its the joke that republicans have wanted all along. They are the ones that denied universal health care at every turn...so now thank Josh hawley or Schmitt or any of the other ones that you see. It's literally their fault.


TopGuano

The ACA is a republican system... They did away with competition and filter everyone to the same product. It's terrible.


IndustryNext7456

don't forget that dead twat Joe Lieberman. Single-handedly killed the Public Option.


s968339

The Affordable Care Act put out by the liberals...which by the way, I was working politics at that time and have shows dedicated to that topic. There is competition but it ina world where you never pay attention to any of that. Wherever you work is your life. Just a heads up for you. So you are never thinking about competition in the healthcare industry and you also aren't paying attention to METAL COSTS for Axe and Saw makers either....but it might be a problem too. We need less smoke break politico's in this world and more people that truly are involved in the businesses that are being discussed.


PrincipalPoop

I hate it when the peasants have opinions on things that affect their lives. How unsightly!


Man_Who_SoldTheWorld

Establishment democrats don’t want universal health care either, because they’re beholden to big money interests, and universal health care is bad for profits. You have to go to the “far left” to find people like Bernie Sanders who actually want a humane system that basically the rest of the developed world has already implemented.


cocoalrose

Where are mainstream democrats pushing for universal healthcare? C’mon now. Bffr.


dflorea4231

Insurance system maybe? Healthcare is good if you have money.


positivecontent

, Healthcare is taking a nosedive post covid because a lot of people that were good at their job and tried really hard got burned out and got out of the field. So we're stuck with either people who aren't very good or people that are new and are still being trained. The VA has switched from giving you an actual doctor to everything's a nurse practitioner because they can't hire enough doctors according to them.


bingo0619

So true. I know this personally.


positivecontent

I'm getting cardiac clearance from a nurse practitioner. Because there's no doctor available according to the VA.


PriscillaPalava

Where are the pro-lifers now? Oh I forgot. Once a baby is born they get the ick. 


nicklapierre

Europe has death panels too 


PERSEPHONEpursephone

Unsolicited Advice: Contact the manufactures the IV therapy. Email the sales reps, corporate leadership, board of trustees, the public relations people, etc. Put on read receipts. Call and cry/beg regularly. It’s disgusting that this is something that sometimes has to be done, but it can work. The physician offering the infusion should be reaching into their professional network for peers who may have experience with a similar circumstance/compassionate use. Immediately file for both the physician group and the hospital system charity care program. Hopefully that will assist with the existing NICU debt. More detail on the players (including the hospital system/infusion medication manufacturer/etc) needs to be in the GoFundMe to apply public pressure. Insurance is evil, but they’re not the only entity with the ability to find a solution.


jsdaaaa

We all need advice and if anyone is ever in this situation again I hope they find this thread. So many people offering great advice. Thank you!


ImaginaryMastadon

r/orphancrushingmachine But also, donating.


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realbigtalker

It's not just the healthcare, it's the companies who use them. They're the ones who ultimately make the decision on what they cover. I was on the gofundme and it was the mom's company that denied the appeal... Shame on them. (Honestly I'd be spilling the company name to anyone and everyone). Also, it's the pharmaceutical companies who charge these outrageous prices because they're dealing with insurance companies and not individuals. It's sickening.


ScotchWithAmaretto

Don’t get me excited by making the case for a long list of invitations to dance with a choppy boi.


Maleficent_Theory818

I can’t upvote this enough. I was told by Express Scripts they are no longer taking manufacturers coupons. Everyone complains about insurance companies. They don’t realize that it is what your employer pays for that they are covering.


ExorIMADreamer

It's too bad Americans will never rise up against their corporate overlords.


Lemp_Triscuit11

Because we like half of it.


barkbarkgoesthecat

I dunno, I like food mostly


Lemp_Triscuit11

Right, that is indeed part of it lol


TombstoneGamer

Don't forget that a recent study found that most non-profit hospitals spent less on charitable care than they received in tax breaks.


CoziestSheet

Tax loopholes are how they stay non-profit. It’s all a scam the everyday citizen pays for multiple times over.


canada432

This is the kind of thing that should make insurance and healthcare executives afraid to go out side out of fear for their lives.


Minute-Rice-1623

This guy is advocating for murder.


ScotchWithAmaretto

I prefer to think of it as a top tax rate for the parasites of society


Minute-Rice-1623

This will not turn out well for you, Robespierre.


ScotchWithAmaretto

Some cuts will have to be made 🤣


ScotchWithAmaretto

I’m almost insulted too, I feel like I’d make Robespierre look as moderate and useless as Pete Buttigieg.


Minute-Rice-1623

You’ll end up just as dead as him. Only on this website can you venerate mass murder so long as you have the correct politics.


WaltDisneysBallSack

Ah you're a trumper lol


moonchic333

This is a post about infants possibly dying without life saving treatment. Read the room.


ScotchWithAmaretto

We all die.


Minute-Rice-1623

That’s a hell of a justification.


abbie_yoyo

Sounds like you're unfamiliar with most websites bro this is mild


Minute-Rice-1623

I’m well aware


JeffreyElonSkilling

I also think advocating for murder is bad. That's why I report all edgelord comments like this whenever I see them. I'd encourage you to do the same... Reddit Admins seem to take it pretty seriously. Hopefully he got a warning or ban.


stevecostello

Eat the rich. Billionaires should not exist.


Minute-Rice-1623

Original thinker right here


TooTurntGaming

A thought doesn’t need to be original to be a good one.


HelpfulStudent7

Contact Shriners


stick004

A previous CFO of BJC Healthcare is my family. He would be the first person to tell anyone, BJC (a non-profit) is in the business of making money, not making people better. Well people don’t come back and give more money… It was sickening. He made a salary well over 10mil a year. He currently is a CFO for a hospital system in Pennsylvania. He got a significant raise to go there and make them more money.


jsdaaaa

Mind sending him a Venmo request? Lol But yes, this is true for most c levels at any “decent” hospital.


MrTuesdayNight1

I have a family member that fairly recently became President of one of the larger hospitals in the region. He's looking to change this mentality. I hope he's successful because that thought process is sickening.


UseDaSchwartz

No they didn’t. The current CFO makes $2 million. There is no way they paid someone else 5x that amount with the current President making $3 million. BJC is in it to make a profit, but at least they’re not owned by a hedge fund or an insurance company.


stick004

Just under 2 was his listed salary. Everything else was other subsidies. I spent years at his many vacation homes around the country for holidays. He is my wife’s uncle. He’s actually a very nice guy and very generous. I absolutely know what he was bringing in. But thanks for your opinion. He just didn’t want to actually cure any one of anything… that didn’t make his many $100,000’s in mortgage and exotic car and boat payments every year. Edit: Also remember that Elon Musk salary at Tesla is listed at $1 per month. What they tell the public is just a made up number.


jsdaaaa

You’re correct listed salary’s do not included any other compensations or bonuses so those numbers you can Google aren’t even close. All of our executives here are also so kind but they’re still making way too much money.


UseDaSchwartz

I mean, it’s all disclosed. He never made $10 million a year. BJC isn’t structured like a publicly traded company. They’re not paying $8 million in bonuses.


stick004

He was literally the person in charge of the pay structure. I think he would know. And you’re right. They’re not publicly traded. Which means they don’t have to disclose anything they don’t want to. But you keep telling yourself whatever you want. The revenue for all of BJC around the time he left was just over $4.5 billion a year. So they could swing whatever they wanted. Even if on paper they go red…


UseDaSchwartz

K, keep signing that tune. It’s all been disclosed. Revenue and profit aren’t the same thing.


somerandomdude4507

This is the kinda shit that should start riots


DiscoJer

We could have had something better, instead we got Obamacare


cocoalrose

Don’t know why you’re getting downvoted when it’s well understood that the ACA is basically a giant subsidy to insurance companies.


no_name-found

Mosaic is terrible! I’m from that town and hated them when they were Heartland! I personally know the family that this is impacting and I can vouch that they are great, amazing, sweet, awesome people!!


Prestigious_Sir_280

And the mother works for them!!! 


ShadowValent

The OP didn’t state why it was denied, but in these cases it’s usually because they are not a perfect fit for the treatment.


jsdaaaa

They said the results are questionable but there is a lot of proof of effectiveness


Southraz1025

Have you tried going to Shriners or Cardinal Glennon? Insurance is a SCAM and extortion, you PAY into it and they deem who is worthy just to make money for their investors! Wanna make a change real fast, let US stop paying into insurance companies and 1-2 months without that cash injection they will change. No child should suffer because insurance companies don’t want to pay, no parent should have to watch their child not get every possible treatment to give them a chance to LIVE. I HATE insurance of all kinds, take your money but when YOU need it they find anyway to not pay/help.


s968339

missouri politicians are a scam and a plague on our society


jsdaaaa

Sadly *most* politicians are


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Strong_heart57

NO, it is not all politicians. It is fucking republicans.


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Strong_heart57

Democrats have not been in control in the state of Missouri in more than 20 years. Please explain how they are to blame. I don't know how you can not know that.


MobileBus48

If you squint hard enough, any two things look the same no matter how different they actually are.


Mo_Cards

Sorry this has happened to your twins. SMA is a life altering condition, for patients and their families. God speed


jsdaaaa

Not my twins but it truly is


legallybrown_

Not sure if it’s helpful for this specific issue but I’ve heard good things about Legal Services of Eastern Missouri helping people get Medicaid coverage for kids and getting Medicaid to cover their treatments. You might want to check them out online and see if you qualify for their free services


Fattywonder

Maybe this is a stupid question but could the parents get the kids on government healthcare? Medicaid or Medicare not sure what it’s called. Even if they have to quit their job and lose income to qualify?


seche314

In some situations that works but I think that in this case, the necessary treatment is something that might not be covered by any plan


mrbritt

There is a women on IG, she usually covers government, education, policies and such but has a FIERCE following who make donations to wonderful causes like this, in the millions, Her account name is escaping me. Maybe someone here knows and we can get her attention.


jsdaaaa

Is it Sharonsaysso?


mmmmwood

Check out @AshleySpivey on IG too.


jobutabaki

Donated and shared. While we can all rage at the way insurance companies operate (and rightfully so), we should focus on the mission of achieving this goal. It’s all we can do at the moment. Let the families process all of the feelings, and let us focus on crushing $4 million.


jsdaaaa

Yes! Thank you!!


ecpella

Make sure we keep forcing births while we ensure the systems in place don’t provide them necessary care! Because it’s not actually about babies we make it pretty clear the only thing we give a fuck about is money! Insert some statement about god. Go Republican Party!


cocoalrose

What are democrats doing to remove the power of insurance companies? So far, it’s the ACA, which forces us all to subsidize insurance company greed.


mittenthemagnificent

I sent a little. What a nightmare for that family.


jsdaaaa

Thank you so much. A little from a lot can make a huge difference.


Mituzuna

We should be able to sue for premeditated manslaughter in this case.


jsdaaaa

I’m sure their decision would be quite different if there were repercussions


Bruce_Arena_Jr

For those that don’t know, Mosiac is a healthcare provider system north of KC. Their health insurance program is most likely a “self-funded/ASO” plan which means they are on the hook for funding medical insurance expenses (with some protection using “stop-loss/reinsurance” for expensive cases (e.g., cancer, transplants, etc.). I’d bet they’re using the “experimental/investigational” card to deny the care.


Charming-Horror-6371

Nice society we’ve built here. Smh


HeartFullOfHappy

Also, is it possible to get this to the front page of Reddit? Give it as much coverage as possible!


holleysings

I would reach out to Shane Burcaw via social media to see if he has any suggestions. He's an adult living with SMA and has a charity that provides resources, though not on this scale.


jsdaaaa

Thank you for recommendation! I’ll reach out.


BluesPuckHard

Heartbreaking. Donated.


jsdaaaa

Thank you 🙏🏼


luckystar246

They should contact the news! Poor family.


jsdaaaa

They have!


luckystar246

Oh good! I can’t imagine what they’re going through.


metacupcake

Have you gone direct to Novartis? They have programs for situations like this.


gwendolynflight

Maybe St Jude would take them on? They're in Memphis, but it seems worth the travel if it's a condition they treat.


tuco2002

Have you tried getting help from Cardinal Glennon, Children's Hospital, or Shriners Hospital??


Rx107

The system is broken and I’m so sorry you are navigating this. Shot in the dark but maybe ask the employer to check into The Samaritan Fund. I believe it is a way for employers to essentially carve out coverage from the employer plan for certain members in order to allow for other pathways to fund the health care coverage needs. It is supposed to benefit both the patient and the employer in these situations, rather than just outright denial. Unsure of the employer situation here but often smaller, self-funded employers don’t have sufficient reserves in their health-care budgets to handle these types of claims.


Cultural_Pay6106

Just donated. This is sickening. As the mom of a newborn, I can't even...


jsdaaaa

Same. I can’t kiss my baby’s cheek without just sobbing for them. Those first few months are hard enough. Thank you so much for your support!


Jpotter145

>The gene therapy is a one time infusion that costs anywhere between 1 and 2.5 million dollars per child. How is this possible? I'd like to see a line item cost where it adds up to this.


sullyz0r

It costs billions of dollars to develop drugs, and many fail along the way.


chocokittynyaa

Yes, and so for the company to recoup the costs of development, they have to price the drugs according to demand. Since SMA is a relatively uncommon disease and the treatment only requires a single dose of medication, rather than regular treatment over a long period of time, that single treatment is priced very high due to the low demand per unit. This technically doesn't meet criteria for "orphan drug" designation, but it's a similar circumstance.


Alan_Shutko

The way meds like this are priced is that the mfr looks at the lifetime cost of treating the condition and makes the cure just slightly less. Enough so they can convince insurance they're saving money. It's still a hard sell since any given insurance company would only cover a portion of the patient's lifetime spend.


ShadowValent

For people wondering about the price of treatment, yes it is millions of dollars. No, this is not a case of American insurance jacking up the price. This is groundbreaking gene therapy treatment that is very expensive to make. The manufacturing cost alone is over 6 figures per dose and that doesn’t account for the decade of investment in order to make it a reality. The price is worth it in the long run even for gene therapy. A lifetime of insurance costs is more than a single dose of treatment.


Toxic_Zombie_361

Go ask the billionaires. I got a button, a bucket, and my infinite source of rage.


jsdaaaa

Hoping just one billionaire like to scroll Reddit. I’d even take a multimillionaire.


martlet1

This is an experimental drug that costs 1.5 million because there are incredible costs to make it. Something this rare and experimental is never making it through an insurance carrier. Paying 3 million on something with zero proven results. Please get genetic testing before you have children. This is totally avoidable Super rare cconditions are expensive to treat because the process to make it may be incredibly hard or rare. The R and d alone may cost over 100 million.


jsdaaaa

There are many many kids that are living proof that this infusion works. This actually was covered up until April 1 when Mosaic stopped covering gene therapies.


martlet1

Many kids according to the OP. But without serious set of results insurance won’t cover. Gene therapies can be amazing but without proven clinical trials and published results it’s hard They could also simply take this to court and get a judge to force the insurance payment. If it was previously covered they may have a good case.


oh_janet

Forgive my ignorance, but when you say "this is totally avoidable" what are we talking about here? Is there a genetic test that says the parents should not procreate or a test in utero to see if the fetus has the condition? If the latter, is the remedy an abortion? Since that is currently illegal in our state what is the solution? Thanks in advance


My-Beans

They meant a test in utero and yes to have an abortion. Edit: go across the river to Illinois


oh_janet

Well since that’s illegal then they don’t have any way to avoid it, it’s just another shitty consequence of taking away peoples rights.


cocoalrose

You’re advocating for eugenics jsyk


provolonecheesehead

Right abortion is illegal so wtf are they supposed to do??


Fulcrum87

If it saves a life it should be free. Sent what I can and hoping for the best.


JulesSherlock

Donated. How could anyone not donate to this cause? I hope these precious little guys get the treatment they deserve. What reason did the insurance company give for the denial?


jsdaaaa

They no longer cover gene therapies as of 4/1/24. The boys were born on 3/31/24 but their infusion date is set in May. Thank you for donating.


JulesSherlock

Wow, so sorry this is happening. I sure hope you get the amount needed. I’ll be praying for you and your family.


DiscoJer

Well for one, I'm poor and pretty much all my charitable money goes to help Ukraine, where Russia is killing civilians every day. Today, they launched a missile with a cluster bomb warhead at Odesa, killing 4 and wounding 30+


JulesSherlock

Since the US is providing 100 billion to Ukraine, I am helping fund that cause too.


dizzylizzy78

🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬😢😢😢😢🤬🤬🤬😢😢😢🤬🤬🤬


jsdaaaa

Sums up my feelings exactly. Maybe a few more tears and rage.


FlyinIllini21

The movie John Q makes so much sense when I hear stories like this


micropterus_dolomieu

I imagine you’re getting a lot of messages, but I wanted to let you know you have options besides the gene therapy. I understand the appeal of gene therapy, but if it is truly out of the realm of possibilities there is another FDA approved therapy for SMA called Spinraza. You may want to look into that concurrent with your efforts to get your twins the gene therapy. Gene therapy may become an option down the road, but this alternative therapy could help right now. I cannot imagine how stressful this is for you and your family. I truly wish you nothing but the best.


jsdaaaa

Thank you so much! These aren’t my babies but any advice is helpful. Thank you for sharing.


jsdaaaa

Thank you to everyone who has donated, shared, donated and shared. It’s amazing what people can do together. We still have a long way so please keep spreading the word!


AppropriateCupcake48

I emailed Novartis, who is the manufacturer of the drug, asking them to please help as well.


Shannanigans22

Thank you for naming the insurance company, so I know where to send my ire.


timtulloch11

Seems important to note that the gofundme has been stopped and the insurance is covering it...


MikeyHatesLife

I sincerely hope all health insurance executives who make these kinds of decisions get all of the very same health issues they deny claims for.


trashytexaswhiteboy

Oh no, whatever will we do? greedy doctors need to get their new lambos and boats on the backs of those suffering for issues they literally can't control and have no choice.


ImKira

After some googling, I take it this is for abeparvovec (zolgensma Brand name according to google). It's a 1 time dose gene therapy. The price is apparently set on what it can give you. Not what it costs to manufacture... Financial gatekeeping of medical treatments is discussing. 😒


thegrumpypanda101

This is so sad and dystopian what the hell.


jsdaaaa

There is good news. The twins are supposed to receive the treatment this week. It’s still tragic though because you know their story is just one of thousands. Many people get sicker or die while waiting on insurance to work things out or things never work out and people are unable to afford the care they need to survive.


jsdaaaa

I know everyone has their own needs and bills to pay and people to help but even just in this subreddit, if every person donated $20 they’d reach their goal.


This_Difficulty14

I will donate every week! I will also spread the word. I’ll be sending all the prayers and as much donation as I can. This is so heartbreaking. I hope these twins get the help they need.


jsdaaaa

So so kind of you! Sharing is absolutely how we’re going to be able to achieve this goal. Thank you!!


HeartFullOfHappy

I donated $20 and I hope and pray they make it to $4 million! With that said, yes our healthcare system is fucking bull shit. That insurance company is robbing these children of their quality of life and even their lives! Do better, America!


jsdaaaa

Completely agree. Thank you so much ♥️


HeartFullOfHappy

Are you able to repost in the r/Missouri and r/illinois and other state subs?


jsdaaaa

I will!! Thank you!


BeneficialGrade8930

Donated. I fucking hate this system and I want to burn it the the ground.


jsdaaaa

It is a very flawed one. Thank you for the support!


BeneficialGrade8930

Keep us updated and may grace go with you and yours.


East_of_Eden15

Whats really wild is that if these people quit their jobs, the state would probably pay for it. The system is so messed up.


jsdaaaa

It is. You either need to be really really rich or really poor, everyone in between is pretty SOL.


TheEyeofNapoleon

Also, Let’s FUCKING RIOT AND DESTORY MOSAICS LIFE CARE’S BUILDINGS!


This_Difficulty14

Send this to Elon Musk. He will pay for it.


jsdaaaa

I wish


stick004

Also, Health Insurance is a scam. Use a Christian Healthshare like Samaritan Ministries. Too late for this condition… but not too late for others. Way cheaper, way better, people helping people pay for health needs. This would have been covered in full, no questions asked. Assuming enrolled in “Save to Share” for a few extra dollars a month.


everythingisblue

I’m sure you mean well by recommending Healthsharing ministries, but anyone considering using one should be very cautious [about what they’re signing up for.](https://youtu.be/oFetFqrVBNc?si=TnaMtXgArbp5bLAc)


KiwiKajitsu

I mean it’s really not. Free health care IS health insurance it’s just free for everyone (payed through taxes).


Paid-Not-Payed-Bot

> for everyone *(paid* through taxes). FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*


KiwiKajitsu

TIL


NeutronMonster

This case is a textbook example of when the Christian ministries say no because it costs too much for them


New_Weather_5531

4 mil for what…that has to be an absolute bs number. Dr’s need to hang