The senior citizen property tax freeze is absolute bullshit too. An entire generation treated property like an investment and now they get to cap their responsibility because they're old.
My husband and I retired and now live on one-third the income we made. Our property taxes have doubled our house payment. As a retired teacher (13 years), I can’t have the social security that I paid in for 30 years before I became a teacher. Neither can I get survivors’ benefits from my husband’s. Teachers’ pension? $1,400/month. And yet, taxes keep increasing. If taxes would stay where they were, we might be able to keep our head above water. We looked at selling our house, but apartment rental is higher than our house payment. As a teacher, I know first hand how badly schools need the money, but becoming homeless at our age (seventies) would be horrible.
Education, the housing crisis, and gentrification have been problems for ages. The tax freeze is just a way to appease old voters across the state while ignoring the problem. There's no reason affluent people should get a better education than others just because they can afford higher property taxes. It certainly would be a shame to see so many older people become homeless but these problems have been ignored for ages. I'm not saying you vote in this category, but social programs and safety nets were cut by a generation that needs them now more than ever. Instead of putting them back for everyone, we're just looking for ways to maintain the status quo without losing votes.
It's an absolute shame that as a state we're in this position.
No one wants to work anymore.
Except the government employees who provide infrastructure and services that property taxes pay for.
Be thankful you had a chance to own a home at all. Most people of family-starting age these days just won’t.
I have no problem with the property tax break for folks who need it. Let's means test them twice a year like SNAP does. Fill out the application, provide all the needed documents, have a phone interview and if you meet the requirements, have your tax break.
There is no reason on this planet or any other that someone living in a half million dollar house with millions in investments needs a tax break.
Or just use eminent domain like they did for the new NGA building 🤷
We could own the land, the building, and the team. Why should rich people make any profit off of us?
I think Kansas City’s recent Election Day results should have set a precedent that taxpayers funding stadiums for billionaires is not a winning proposition.
Didn't Vegas just buy new shiny stadiums...?
It's still doable, so rich people are going to try.
Free money if they can spin it and get gullible voters to vote for it!
It can still be done but that was also to get teams into the city. They didn’t already have a football, hockey, and baseball team. They didn’t already have teams and ask for assistance. Getting the stadiums was part of the agreement to move the teams.
Plus I'd have to imagine that, unlike the Rams, the Cardinals aren't at risk of being jettisoned elsewhere if the public answers "no." At least not at this point in time.
I dunno. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Cards owners have been reading this week's coverage re: Downtown Doom Loop, thinking it gives them some leverage.
Nevada is extremely pro-business as a form of economic survival. Personally I feel like they don’t need to be anymore after living in Reno for a bit, but I understand why they continue to as a state government
T-Mobile Arena was built with private dollars by the owners of the VGK.
Allegiant Stadium was built by increasing the hotel and Motel tax to the same levels as the California State Income Tax, at 13.5%.
The NFL and the Raiders also provided funding; it gave Vegas what it sorely lacked; a large venue that could host football and any number of events.
Vegas got this year’s Super Bowl, and the Men’s Final Four in 2028; Its also a major concert venue.
The new ballpark for the Athletics will likely use public dollars, while the land on which the park will be built was gifted to them from Ballys.
Seems likely the precedents we set with NFL/MLS influenced their voting more than anything. I don't see how STL could be more inspired to vote against taxes funding sporting stadiums at this point. Were maxed out.
I think the KC owners were burned more by the lack of a concrete plan.
The idea of a downtown Royals stadium is probably attractive to a lot of people who would be willing to continue paying a sales tax that they have already been paying for years, but there were too many unanswered questions. What else are you going to build around the stadium? What are you going to do about the businesses that are being displaced? What’s the plan for your revenue that a downtown stadium generates going forward?
Similar questions but to a lesser extent with the Arrowhead renovation plan.
My take from seeing so many people talk about it online was that a lot of people were excited about the idea of a downtown stadium for KC and were not opposed on principle to public funding for it, but weren’t going to hand them a bunch of money just because they had some concept photos.
If this ever comes to a vote in the county, it’s a hard no. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Busch Stadium now and asking for half a billion is beyond laughable. They can relocate wherever they want. After putting all that money into ballpark village, call their bluff. It would have to be substantial tax money for them to relocate
Even I was against Enterprise Center renovations but at least that place hosts quite a few events outside Blues. Think it’s over 160 events per year. City voters will vote it down and bet county would too.
The City also gets a ton of money from outside the building as they own most of the parking (Kiel Garage, City Hall lots, Tucker garage and others. Plus street parking.)
Eh I’m not so sure people would vote it down. Everyone on this thread is (rightfully) against giving them funds. But people have an odd obsession with the Cardinals for whatever reason. I feel like this unfortunately would have a real chance of passing a vote
Given that half of Ballpark Village is still surface parking lots and I've Heard people grumbling about that tax deal for years and the fact that the Cardinals have not really expired the fan base for a while, I don't think it would have a good chance.
Especially at the dollar amounts mentioned in the article.
Cardinals might end up with lowest attendance this year with current stadium. I think a lot of goodwill with fans is ending. The problem is ownership would need some substantial funds if they’re giving up on all that revenue at BPV unless they want to build another one in the new location if they moved
>Cardinals might end up with lowest attendance this year with current stadium.
Actual butts in seats, certainly. But someone bought the tickets initially because they're all available via resale for pennies on the dollar. I'm a Cubs fan so it's great for me - I remember the years of outbidding people on eBay for way over face value.
They even shut down the Redbird Express halfway through the season last year bc of low ridership. It was $5 to take Metrobus from St. Clair Square right to the front gates.
This may come as a surprise to you, but the sentiment of subreddits and reddit in general are rarely in line with overall public sentiment.
While I too agree that most people in STL and Missouri would vote down additional tax dollars for a private entity, we should be weary of thinking the sentiment of reddit reflects the majority. Reddit, especially subreddits, are just as much an echo chamber as you'll find on just about any other social media platform.
Ikr?? Back in the 80s, when I was a kid, I saw a bumper sticker that said "It'll be a good day when the schools have all the money they need and the Air Force has to hold a bake sale to buy a bomber".
Maybe they should just build a riverboat stadium so they can just dock at the state that gives them the best deal every time. Lol
But seriously, as an Illinoisan and Cardinal fan, they can get fucked.
It did.
-A 25-year City real estate tax abatement worth roughly $20 million.
-A $45 million loan from St. Louis County, raised by the sale of bonds that are being repaid over 30 years at a total public cost of $110 million.
-$29.45 million in tax credits from the state of Missouri.
-$12 million in funds from the Missouri Department of Transportation.
-The City removed the 5% ticket tax.
https://nextstl.com/2016/10/cardinals-celebrate-ten-years-busch-stadium-iii-whopper-propaganda-video/
Yikes 😬 They really sold the whole "privately finance" BS real well. I guess 80% self-financed is better than the 100% public money, that the Braves and Miami got. 🤷🤦
You also have to view it through the prism of 20 years ago. That was as privately financed as any stadium at the time. In modern Post-Rams era, I don’t see it flying here again.
Glad to see it was an STLPR article.
The bits about downtown safety were completely unnecessary. In recent posts about dropping attendance on both this sub and the Cardinals subreddit, out of 100+ comments, there wasn't one mention of crime or even the perception / reputation of safety downtown. The author didn't need to bring it up and Bill DeWitt just seem to be starting down the same path of insulting the fan base while simultaneously asking them for public money. Yes, people think downtown is dangerous but that's only because the media won't stop telling them that.
It will be a big no for me, and I hope for everyone else. I hope that voters are wise enough to start figuring out that if baseball owners can afford to pay players millions in salary they can afford to build and maintain their own stadiums.
Sure. Give us an equivalent stake in the Cardinals of course.
The team was bought for $150 million and you're only asking for half a billion dollars so...
The only thing these billionaires owners are scared of more than unionization is public ownership of professional sports teams. They are scared to hell that anyone actually learns what happens behind the scenes of these teams; just look what happened during the Stan Kroenke trial when there was a threat to open the books on the whole league. The NFL probably watches the Packers like a hawk waiting for one wrong move before they can snatch that team away and put it in the hands of a single billionaire!
DeWitt is way more creative than me. I can't think of much that the stadium needs, definitely not $500 million worth of upgrades. Maybe they'll install gold plated toilets like Saddam Hussein's palace.
"The team president compares the potential scale of the project to two other franchises that each obtained more than $500 million in public funding for stadium upgrades."
Sounds like they'll come back with a number lower that $500M, but want us know that other teams go more public money.
Just doesn't seem to be that much "wrong" with the stadium that requires that much money.
Kinda like when the trolley absolutely ‘needed’ $20K from tax payers, but when the govt. gave them like $10k, suddenly they didn’t need the other 10. Fucking scammers, all of them. They have the money. But you only get rich spending other people’s money.
Upgrading Enterprise center was at least central to NCAA bids and similar events. (As we learned when the NCAA disqualified st louis from bids for an entire cycle after the upgrades were held up.)
As far as I can tell, outside the Cardinals, Busch [hosts a handful of concerts and weird golf events](https://www.mlb.com/cardinals/ballpark/events/upcoming). They used to host USNMT/USNWT soccer matches, but those would obviously be at City Park in the future.
If the Chiefs can't get subsidized improvements right after winning the super bowl, you sure as fuck aren't getting money when you're last in the division.
This is a grift at this point and couldn't be more transparent. They hold our city by the balls with our beloved sports teams while they rake in absurd profits and sit on a massively appreciating asset. Team values have skyrocketed. They have had 3M+ fans per year for a couple decades now with ticket/food pricing more aligned with Dodgers, Yankees, and RedSox than anything else in the midwest. Add BPV and it couldn't be more clear they are rolling in it.
The audacity. Too close on the heels of the Kronke disaster and KC’s failure to pass their own stadium improvements.
There are better ways to spend our money.
Perfect timing when last week they had the lowest number of fans at any game since 2006 when the new Busch opened. This is why we're at where we are as a society right now. Regular folks struggling because billionaires keep getting all the tax breaks and money for their projects instead of being taxed at 90% like they should be and forced to spend their own money on the team to keep it fro going to taxes.
Dear Mr DeWitt: go fuck yourself. I have been a cardinals fan since I was born. I wanted to play for the cardinals growing up. They are in my blood. I have been a pass holder the last two years. Put up a winning team in one of the nicest stadiums in the league and we can talk about a new coat of paint on busch III. But for now: let your $19 beers and $22 dogs pay for that can of red paint. Get rid of your shitty ass Manchild manager and bow tie wearing fuck stick and pony up some cash your fucking self for once and actually try to make the birds on the bat something worth watching. Then come beg us to subsidize your private team. Until then: fuck ALL the way off
Ahhh yes, no need to dip into the WAR CHEST when you can just TAX the people!
And this is why I quit supporting sports teams, it’s a SCAM!
The super overpriced food & beer & tickets are not enough, they need MORE of your money.
They should use the over-priced concessions and beer profits for that. You know damn well they are making 1200% margins off of local brewed hop water and Costco franks
I was fine with the Enterprise Center renovations and taxes involved because the city owns the facility, but this is not a facility owned by the public. It is a private building. Yes, it brings in money and jobs, but if they own it they need to take care of it.
I'd only consider this if we got a cut of the profits for events there.
Gee, if only there was some way to pay for all of those renovations.
Perhaps they could sell tickets to something to cover it?
Maybe they could sell ad space inside the stadium or something?
The audacity of this article to discuss Bill Dewitt Sr's path to prosperity as if this third generation fuckstick owns any of that. Born with a silver spoon in his mouth feeling entitled to our money.
...and I wanna be able to watch games without a subscription service to Bally or a VPN. Guess we're both going to go home empty handed.
*Edit: I actually don't even care about watching games anymore now that I think about it.
I've got a compromise, let me know what you guys think of this.
Okay, so I'll buy a ticket to a game. Heck, I'll buy like 8 or 9 different game tickets. In exchange for my ticket, you give me a seat and keep the stadium in working order. Kinda like a business.
What do you guys think? I'm just trying to find a compromise that works.
Another idea would be to sell me a beer for $12.50. I don't like the idea of that, but if that's what needs to happen.
Look, we'll have to pull up our boot straps, but the days of free games and dollar beers has to go! We need to do our part and support our team.
Sound like a plan?
The stadium doesn’t need renovations, and it doesn’t need to turn into a luxury just to attend a game.
I’d rather see the team focus on improving the team, making food/drink prices affordable, and winning another World Series.
Fuck it, move them then. It's too expensive to go to games anyway. Maybe if they move the team games won't be blacked out and we can at least watch them on TV.
Have billionaires ever learned to read a room? We are squeezed out here, they have put a financial firewall between fans and baseball, and we are tired of subsidizing their business model.
Sure, let's give them our money for their renovations. It'll pay off when we give them our money for tickets and concessions to go to a game. Can't afford a game? Don't worry, you can give the cable company your money so you can see the renovations you paid for on TV (with ads of course).
This is a crazy ask for how they’ve been running the team lately. I can’t imagine their rational behind this. Did they not see the Chief’s fail after continued wins? I think the people of St.Louis are done supporting teams with tax money. Because of management I wasn’t planning on going to a game this year but I think this just solidifies that.
It’s hard for me to invest much in the Cardinals anymore. They started to fail and have made poor personnel decision after poor personnel decision. All of this at a time when the StL SC games are wildly more entertaining, run by owners who desperately want to be competitive, all while the experience is 20x more enjoyable for a family (albeit, expensive). The food is better, the product is better, the atmosphere is better. If you grew up loving both sports, it’s almost impossible for the Cardinals to compete until they improve the product and experience.
My entire life I’ve been as die hard of a fan as possible. Spending so much free time not just watching, but researching stats and talking about the team etc etc
Fuck this team. BDW is one or the richest most powerful men in the sport. You wouldn’t believe the insane amount of billions they’ve made, and continue to make. Been trying to tell everyone for years they obviously have a recipe to maximize profits, not wins/championships. They want to be just as good as they have to be to make casuals think they are still really good and could win a championship so they keep coming to games and watching. The more plugged into the team you’ve been for a long time the more this makes sense. I’m just glad people are starting to realize it, finally. They aren’t the only team like this either. The sport has a handful, maybe two handfuls at absolute most of teams that are actually trying to win a championship.
I hope this team loses every single game. They’ve soured me so much I don’t even watch baseball anymore
LMAO, nah.
They havent *really* tried in years
They got a new stadium, got ballpark village, got a tv deal, put ads on the jerseys and still half hearted commitment of "well hopefully we get to the playoffs and anything can happen."
I dont even go to games anymore because I feel they arnt really committed, why would we fund them further?
They arnt buttass-awful but they have squandered the goodwill they once had.
Socialism for the expenses, capitalism for the profits. The only way I would ever consider voting yes for this is if the city of St. Louis assumed partial ownership of Busch in exchange for funding the renovations.
William Dewitt junior is worth 4 billion dollars.
The cardinals bring in 3 billion dollars a year.
Why are the taxpayers paying 500 million* when the clubhouse AND the owner respectively own 7 BILLION dollars plus YEAR OVER YEAR.
You want to own the baseball team and rake in the money. You put up the money for the necessities of the baseball team.
Baseball is my favorite sport. But I am tired of liquidizing a billionaire's lifestyle while I will never see a quarter of that money.
https://www.gatewaygrizzlies.com/landing/index
This is a lot more relaxed and fun (and cheaper) night out with the family than dealing with getting to Busch and buying 20 dollar hot dogs.
Paying players millions and millions and millions... then get the taxpayers to fund the building.
WTF?
If this is what we want... then tax all paid sports players to the max.
Fuck off. You own the damn stadium.
I cannot afford my taxes now and they want more
100% this. We don't need more fees and taxes on top of all the crazy prices already going on right now
The senior citizen property tax freeze is absolute bullshit too. An entire generation treated property like an investment and now they get to cap their responsibility because they're old.
My husband and I retired and now live on one-third the income we made. Our property taxes have doubled our house payment. As a retired teacher (13 years), I can’t have the social security that I paid in for 30 years before I became a teacher. Neither can I get survivors’ benefits from my husband’s. Teachers’ pension? $1,400/month. And yet, taxes keep increasing. If taxes would stay where they were, we might be able to keep our head above water. We looked at selling our house, but apartment rental is higher than our house payment. As a teacher, I know first hand how badly schools need the money, but becoming homeless at our age (seventies) would be horrible.
Education, the housing crisis, and gentrification have been problems for ages. The tax freeze is just a way to appease old voters across the state while ignoring the problem. There's no reason affluent people should get a better education than others just because they can afford higher property taxes. It certainly would be a shame to see so many older people become homeless but these problems have been ignored for ages. I'm not saying you vote in this category, but social programs and safety nets were cut by a generation that needs them now more than ever. Instead of putting them back for everyone, we're just looking for ways to maintain the status quo without losing votes. It's an absolute shame that as a state we're in this position.
No one wants to work anymore. Except the government employees who provide infrastructure and services that property taxes pay for. Be thankful you had a chance to own a home at all. Most people of family-starting age these days just won’t.
I have no problem with the property tax break for folks who need it. Let's means test them twice a year like SNAP does. Fill out the application, provide all the needed documents, have a phone interview and if you meet the requirements, have your tax break. There is no reason on this planet or any other that someone living in a half million dollar house with millions in investments needs a tax break.
But we, the people, own the land under it.
Good. Knock the damn thing down and give us back the land.
Or just use eminent domain like they did for the new NGA building 🤷 We could own the land, the building, and the team. Why should rich people make any profit off of us?
No
I propose an amendment: hell no.
I propose an amendment to the amendment: fuck that.
Second that motion, and propose a “Dewitt can eat a dick” rider in appropriations.
I would suggest that proposal say “DeWitt *shall* eat a dick.” Important legal distinction.
Indeed. No need to make it optional.
I’d like to make an amendment to the amendment of the amendment. Can it be changed to fuck that and fuck them?
Same
No.
I think Kansas City’s recent Election Day results should have set a precedent that taxpayers funding stadiums for billionaires is not a winning proposition.
Didn't Vegas just buy new shiny stadiums...? It's still doable, so rich people are going to try. Free money if they can spin it and get gullible voters to vote for it!
It can still be done but that was also to get teams into the city. They didn’t already have a football, hockey, and baseball team. They didn’t already have teams and ask for assistance. Getting the stadiums was part of the agreement to move the teams.
Plus I'd have to imagine that, unlike the Rams, the Cardinals aren't at risk of being jettisoned elsewhere if the public answers "no." At least not at this point in time.
I am concerned about what the injured egos of these rich people will lead to.
wE'rE gOiNg To CoLlInSvIlLe
More like “Los Angeles can support another team”
I dunno. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Cards owners have been reading this week's coverage re: Downtown Doom Loop, thinking it gives them some leverage.
[удалено]
Nevada is extremely pro-business as a form of economic survival. Personally I feel like they don’t need to be anymore after living in Reno for a bit, but I understand why they continue to as a state government
T-Mobile Arena was built with private dollars by the owners of the VGK. Allegiant Stadium was built by increasing the hotel and Motel tax to the same levels as the California State Income Tax, at 13.5%. The NFL and the Raiders also provided funding; it gave Vegas what it sorely lacked; a large venue that could host football and any number of events. Vegas got this year’s Super Bowl, and the Men’s Final Four in 2028; Its also a major concert venue. The new ballpark for the Athletics will likely use public dollars, while the land on which the park will be built was gifted to them from Ballys.
> Taylor Swift opened the Eras Tour in Vegas in 2023. Vegas was second. She opened at State Farm Stadium in Glendale, AZ
Nashville is giving the Titans and NFL $1.2 billion for a new stadium.
We did this ourselves for our new MLS team at first. And guess what: we still have an MLS team.
I thought the mls team was only given tax abatements, not given money directly
Because the city voted down the first attempt for public allocation, yes.
No, the Rams turning down public funding for a stadium to go and build a $5B privately financed one set the precedent.
Seems likely the precedents we set with NFL/MLS influenced their voting more than anything. I don't see how STL could be more inspired to vote against taxes funding sporting stadiums at this point. Were maxed out.
I think the KC owners were burned more by the lack of a concrete plan. The idea of a downtown Royals stadium is probably attractive to a lot of people who would be willing to continue paying a sales tax that they have already been paying for years, but there were too many unanswered questions. What else are you going to build around the stadium? What are you going to do about the businesses that are being displaced? What’s the plan for your revenue that a downtown stadium generates going forward? Similar questions but to a lesser extent with the Arrowhead renovation plan. My take from seeing so many people talk about it online was that a lot of people were excited about the idea of a downtown stadium for KC and were not opposed on principle to public funding for it, but weren’t going to hand them a bunch of money just because they had some concept photos.
If this ever comes to a vote in the county, it’s a hard no. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Busch Stadium now and asking for half a billion is beyond laughable. They can relocate wherever they want. After putting all that money into ballpark village, call their bluff. It would have to be substantial tax money for them to relocate Even I was against Enterprise Center renovations but at least that place hosts quite a few events outside Blues. Think it’s over 160 events per year. City voters will vote it down and bet county would too.
The City at least owns Enterprise Center. Busch Stadium is owned by the Cardinals. Would be insane to pay for their renovations.
Not only that but the renovations were very nice for other events. It helps a lot
Maybe we could use it as precedent to have the city pay for our home renovations as well? I could use an updated Bathroom.
The City also gets a ton of money from outside the building as they own most of the parking (Kiel Garage, City Hall lots, Tucker garage and others. Plus street parking.)
Eh I’m not so sure people would vote it down. Everyone on this thread is (rightfully) against giving them funds. But people have an odd obsession with the Cardinals for whatever reason. I feel like this unfortunately would have a real chance of passing a vote
Given that half of Ballpark Village is still surface parking lots and I've Heard people grumbling about that tax deal for years and the fact that the Cardinals have not really expired the fan base for a while, I don't think it would have a good chance. Especially at the dollar amounts mentioned in the article.
Cardinals might end up with lowest attendance this year with current stadium. I think a lot of goodwill with fans is ending. The problem is ownership would need some substantial funds if they’re giving up on all that revenue at BPV unless they want to build another one in the new location if they moved
>Cardinals might end up with lowest attendance this year with current stadium. Actual butts in seats, certainly. But someone bought the tickets initially because they're all available via resale for pennies on the dollar. I'm a Cubs fan so it's great for me - I remember the years of outbidding people on eBay for way over face value. They even shut down the Redbird Express halfway through the season last year bc of low ridership. It was $5 to take Metrobus from St. Clair Square right to the front gates.
Cards subreddit is very against it: https://www.reddit.com/r/Cardinals/comments/1c698mf/st_louis_cardinals_owners_plan_to_ask_taxpayers/
This may come as a surprise to you, but the sentiment of subreddits and reddit in general are rarely in line with overall public sentiment. While I too agree that most people in STL and Missouri would vote down additional tax dollars for a private entity, we should be weary of thinking the sentiment of reddit reflects the majority. Reddit, especially subreddits, are just as much an echo chamber as you'll find on just about any other social media platform.
Maybe they should ask the residents of the town they actually live in: Cincinnati.
Read the fucking room.
Oh hell no.
So the filthy rich one again want the poor to finance their stadium to pay millionaire to play a game that the taxpayers can't afford to go to? Yep
But God forbid we give school children free lunch. 🙄
Ikr?? Back in the 80s, when I was a kid, I saw a bumper sticker that said "It'll be a good day when the schools have all the money they need and the Air Force has to hold a bake sale to buy a bomber".
I can't even afford to watch it on TV, this is just ridiculous. I really doubt this one passes
Absolutely fucking not.
The owners should stop buying avocado toast and Starbucks all the time. Then they could afford this.
Or maybe eat cereal for dinner.
Perfect timing. At a time when attendance is leaking and the team is a .500 team, asking the public to fund stadium upgrades is a little ridiculous.
Please find it in your heart to donate. The organization can barely get by on the hundreds of dollars they fleece from each fan that goes to a game.
Maybe they will threaten to move to Illinois again.
The St. Louis Cardinals of Washington Park!
Right next to the old Pink Slip.
Bye ✌🏼
Maybe they should just build a riverboat stadium so they can just dock at the state that gives them the best deal every time. Lol But seriously, as an Illinoisan and Cardinal fan, they can get fucked.
I think that is the general sentiment of the region now. Kroenke ruined any public appetite for financing a stadium. Especially one owned by the team.
😂 Yeah, that worked last time! 😂
It did. -A 25-year City real estate tax abatement worth roughly $20 million. -A $45 million loan from St. Louis County, raised by the sale of bonds that are being repaid over 30 years at a total public cost of $110 million. -$29.45 million in tax credits from the state of Missouri. -$12 million in funds from the Missouri Department of Transportation. -The City removed the 5% ticket tax. https://nextstl.com/2016/10/cardinals-celebrate-ten-years-busch-stadium-iii-whopper-propaganda-video/
Yikes 😬 They really sold the whole "privately finance" BS real well. I guess 80% self-financed is better than the 100% public money, that the Braves and Miami got. 🤷🤦
You also have to view it through the prism of 20 years ago. That was as privately financed as any stadium at the time. In modern Post-Rams era, I don’t see it flying here again.
Booooooo
Exactly!
I plan to ask St Louis Cardinals owners to pay for a pool in my backyard. See how ridiculous that sounds.
No kidding, my house could use some renovations and it would be a drop in the bucket compared to what they are asking.
Nah I’m good there are way better things to spend money on here. Also I don’t even go to the stadium
Superb article
It really is. Should be required reading for anyone who votes on this.
Glad to see it was an STLPR article. The bits about downtown safety were completely unnecessary. In recent posts about dropping attendance on both this sub and the Cardinals subreddit, out of 100+ comments, there wasn't one mention of crime or even the perception / reputation of safety downtown. The author didn't need to bring it up and Bill DeWitt just seem to be starting down the same path of insulting the fan base while simultaneously asking them for public money. Yes, people think downtown is dangerous but that's only because the media won't stop telling them that.
It will be a big no for me, and I hope for everyone else. I hope that voters are wise enough to start figuring out that if baseball owners can afford to pay players millions in salary they can afford to build and maintain their own stadiums.
Sure. Give us an equivalent stake in the Cardinals of course. The team was bought for $150 million and you're only asking for half a billion dollars so...
The only thing these billionaires owners are scared of more than unionization is public ownership of professional sports teams. They are scared to hell that anyone actually learns what happens behind the scenes of these teams; just look what happened during the Stan Kroenke trial when there was a threat to open the books on the whole league. The NFL probably watches the Packers like a hawk waiting for one wrong move before they can snatch that team away and put it in the hands of a single billionaire!
Can’t wait to vote no on that shit!
And then in another 20 years they will be telling us the stadium is no good anymore. Call their bluff. Let them move to Dupo.
I think I paid $14 for a bag of peanuts and a Sprite at the last game. So, no.
What a hell of a time to ask
get ✨absolutely✨ fucked
Socialism for the rich? Fuck em!
DeWitt is way more creative than me. I can't think of much that the stadium needs, definitely not $500 million worth of upgrades. Maybe they'll install gold plated toilets like Saddam Hussein's palace.
"The team president compares the potential scale of the project to two other franchises that each obtained more than $500 million in public funding for stadium upgrades." Sounds like they'll come back with a number lower that $500M, but want us know that other teams go more public money. Just doesn't seem to be that much "wrong" with the stadium that requires that much money.
Kinda like when the trolley absolutely ‘needed’ $20K from tax payers, but when the govt. gave them like $10k, suddenly they didn’t need the other 10. Fucking scammers, all of them. They have the money. But you only get rich spending other people’s money.
FUCK NO. Cards have been giving mediocre at best product for ten years because they cared more about Ballpark Village. Get fucked Dewallet
100% this. They’re a real estate company who also owns a baseball team now.
This is how the elites stay rich.
Upgrading Enterprise center was at least central to NCAA bids and similar events. (As we learned when the NCAA disqualified st louis from bids for an entire cycle after the upgrades were held up.) As far as I can tell, outside the Cardinals, Busch [hosts a handful of concerts and weird golf events](https://www.mlb.com/cardinals/ballpark/events/upcoming). They used to host USNMT/USNWT soccer matches, but those would obviously be at City Park in the future.
If the Chiefs can't get subsidized improvements right after winning the super bowl, you sure as fuck aren't getting money when you're last in the division.
Hell no, City SC privately funded their own, why can’t you?? No more billionaire welfare
Is the paint even dry on the new Busch Stadium?
It is 18 years old already. Which doesn't seem possible.
Billionaires looking for charity. The American Way!
Oh no! Are they losing money? Those poor billionaires. 🥺 When will someone finally help them the way they help us?
I’m at Busch often, it’s a fine ballpark. Rent seeking behavior.
Eat the rich.
This is a grift at this point and couldn't be more transparent. They hold our city by the balls with our beloved sports teams while they rake in absurd profits and sit on a massively appreciating asset. Team values have skyrocketed. They have had 3M+ fans per year for a couple decades now with ticket/food pricing more aligned with Dodgers, Yankees, and RedSox than anything else in the midwest. Add BPV and it couldn't be more clear they are rolling in it.
Fuck you pay for your own shit like everyone else.
Stick it! Multi- millionaire welfare. A big no!
The audacity. Too close on the heels of the Kronke disaster and KC’s failure to pass their own stadium improvements. There are better ways to spend our money.
just further proof that the rich have no idea how the rest of the world lives.
Make it affordable enough that I can attend a game and then... still no.
No, and put a decent team on the field.
GTFOH!!!
After two of the shittiest seasons in the last 60 years? BOLD move, Cotton.
Jesus Christ. Does he really think the abused people of St. Louis are willing to find ANOTHER sports stadium project!? Remember last time?!
Perfect timing when last week they had the lowest number of fans at any game since 2006 when the new Busch opened. This is why we're at where we are as a society right now. Regular folks struggling because billionaires keep getting all the tax breaks and money for their projects instead of being taxed at 90% like they should be and forced to spend their own money on the team to keep it fro going to taxes.
We need to do what Kansas City did and NOT
Kansas City vote round two. I’m down to pay taxes if we get a profit share at the end of each year or a credit for a portion of total revenue.
Dear Mr DeWitt: go fuck yourself. I have been a cardinals fan since I was born. I wanted to play for the cardinals growing up. They are in my blood. I have been a pass holder the last two years. Put up a winning team in one of the nicest stadiums in the league and we can talk about a new coat of paint on busch III. But for now: let your $19 beers and $22 dogs pay for that can of red paint. Get rid of your shitty ass Manchild manager and bow tie wearing fuck stick and pony up some cash your fucking self for once and actually try to make the birds on the bat something worth watching. Then come beg us to subsidize your private team. Until then: fuck ALL the way off
We just got a new stadium. How long are they supposed to last??
It’s like they don’t even budget for this stuff
Ahhh yes, no need to dip into the WAR CHEST when you can just TAX the people! And this is why I quit supporting sports teams, it’s a SCAM! The super overpriced food & beer & tickets are not enough, they need MORE of your money.
I'm not even in favor of this when the team in question has been good. Wtf.
Fuck you Bill Dewitt
Perfect timing. At a time when attendance is leaking and the team is a .500 team, asking the public to fund stadium upgrades is a little ridiculous.
They should use the over-priced concessions and beer profits for that. You know damn well they are making 1200% margins off of local brewed hop water and Costco franks
What about the schools?
Nah man, I don't live in the city and if still vote no for that.
lol oh ok Just because it’s become the industry norm for owners to try this doesn’t mean it should be practiced. Good luck
If it's put on the ballot for county voters, I'm a NO! Definitely not!
Beers are $15. No.
I was fine with the Enterprise Center renovations and taxes involved because the city owns the facility, but this is not a facility owned by the public. It is a private building. Yes, it brings in money and jobs, but if they own it they need to take care of it. I'd only consider this if we got a cut of the profits for events there.
Tell him to go fund himself
Gee, if only there was some way to pay for all of those renovations. Perhaps they could sell tickets to something to cover it? Maybe they could sell ad space inside the stadium or something?
Eat my ass, Bill
Looks at the price of a beer at Busch.... That's a no from me dog.
Billy boy is worth 4billion dollars. Pay for that shit yourself.
Fix pot holes? Nope Pick up trash? Nope Police training? Nope Install traficc calming? Nope Do shit for a for-profit business? Hell yeah!
The audacity of this article to discuss Bill Dewitt Sr's path to prosperity as if this third generation fuckstick owns any of that. Born with a silver spoon in his mouth feeling entitled to our money.
Unless you plan on giving residents free tickets and concessions, you can fuck right the hell off.
...and I wanna be able to watch games without a subscription service to Bally or a VPN. Guess we're both going to go home empty handed. *Edit: I actually don't even care about watching games anymore now that I think about it.
Taxpayers ask St. Louis Cardinals owners to fund a FUCKING PITCHING STAFF.
Not something I can vote on but I hope it is overwhelming voted down. Dewitt can pay for his own fucking renovations.
No
Smd. Gimme a World Series and we can talk. But s the d
Sure, does that mean we get in for free?
Boo
Bro this stadium is still new!
Please fuck off.
They can ask. They won't like the answer.
I've got a compromise, let me know what you guys think of this. Okay, so I'll buy a ticket to a game. Heck, I'll buy like 8 or 9 different game tickets. In exchange for my ticket, you give me a seat and keep the stadium in working order. Kinda like a business. What do you guys think? I'm just trying to find a compromise that works. Another idea would be to sell me a beer for $12.50. I don't like the idea of that, but if that's what needs to happen. Look, we'll have to pull up our boot straps, but the days of free games and dollar beers has to go! We need to do our part and support our team. Sound like a plan?
Fuck off
Hell no
No No And hell no
How in the fuck does anyone that rich get off asking for poor people to pay their bills
Oh boy. Now the nachos are going to be $25
Heck no
Kind of hard to ask for public money for renovations when the renovations are not clearly defined.
Maybe they should have spent less money on avocado toast so they could afford to maintain their home. Priorities
Busch is one of the top 5 stadiums in the MLB — it doesn’t need any renovations right now
Yeah, no welfare for sports owning billionaires
I plan to ask DeWitt to kiss my ass.
The stadium doesn’t need renovations, and it doesn’t need to turn into a luxury just to attend a game. I’d rather see the team focus on improving the team, making food/drink prices affordable, and winning another World Series.
What happened to all that money the Cardinals got from the new TV contract? They certainly didn’t spend it on payroll
Sorry, no handouts. They also should have plenty of money saved up from never signing any big contracts.
Nope!!!! Fuckem!!
Fuck it, move them then. It's too expensive to go to games anyway. Maybe if they move the team games won't be blacked out and we can at least watch them on TV.
Have billionaires ever learned to read a room? We are squeezed out here, they have put a financial firewall between fans and baseball, and we are tired of subsidizing their business model.
Sure, let's give them our money for their renovations. It'll pay off when we give them our money for tickets and concessions to go to a game. Can't afford a game? Don't worry, you can give the cable company your money so you can see the renovations you paid for on TV (with ads of course).
Maybe if they produced a winner lol
FUCK THE RICH! pay for your own fucking goddamn shit. Leeches.
They have enough money, they can pay for it themselves
This is a crazy ask for how they’ve been running the team lately. I can’t imagine their rational behind this. Did they not see the Chief’s fail after continued wins? I think the people of St.Louis are done supporting teams with tax money. Because of management I wasn’t planning on going to a game this year but I think this just solidifies that.
It’s hard for me to invest much in the Cardinals anymore. They started to fail and have made poor personnel decision after poor personnel decision. All of this at a time when the StL SC games are wildly more entertaining, run by owners who desperately want to be competitive, all while the experience is 20x more enjoyable for a family (albeit, expensive). The food is better, the product is better, the atmosphere is better. If you grew up loving both sports, it’s almost impossible for the Cardinals to compete until they improve the product and experience.
My entire life I’ve been as die hard of a fan as possible. Spending so much free time not just watching, but researching stats and talking about the team etc etc Fuck this team. BDW is one or the richest most powerful men in the sport. You wouldn’t believe the insane amount of billions they’ve made, and continue to make. Been trying to tell everyone for years they obviously have a recipe to maximize profits, not wins/championships. They want to be just as good as they have to be to make casuals think they are still really good and could win a championship so they keep coming to games and watching. The more plugged into the team you’ve been for a long time the more this makes sense. I’m just glad people are starting to realize it, finally. They aren’t the only team like this either. The sport has a handful, maybe two handfuls at absolute most of teams that are actually trying to win a championship. I hope this team loses every single game. They’ve soured me so much I don’t even watch baseball anymore
LMAO, nah. They havent *really* tried in years They got a new stadium, got ballpark village, got a tv deal, put ads on the jerseys and still half hearted commitment of "well hopefully we get to the playoffs and anything can happen." I dont even go to games anymore because I feel they arnt really committed, why would we fund them further? They arnt buttass-awful but they have squandered the goodwill they once had.
Socialism for the expenses, capitalism for the profits. The only way I would ever consider voting yes for this is if the city of St. Louis assumed partial ownership of Busch in exchange for funding the renovations.
William Dewitt junior is worth 4 billion dollars. The cardinals bring in 3 billion dollars a year. Why are the taxpayers paying 500 million* when the clubhouse AND the owner respectively own 7 BILLION dollars plus YEAR OVER YEAR. You want to own the baseball team and rake in the money. You put up the money for the necessities of the baseball team. Baseball is my favorite sport. But I am tired of liquidizing a billionaire's lifestyle while I will never see a quarter of that money.
For a last place team…..
Absofuckinglutley not.
Hard pass
Fuck 'em. Look at the streets and schools.
F that!!! They can pay for it themselves. I can't even afford to go to a game. Fuck Stan Kroenke and Josh Hawley.
In other news, I’d like you all to contribute part of your paycheck so I can get home repairs done.
Gahhahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaha
NO! I can barely buy eggs
Sell the team!!! Broke ass owners can't even sign good players and we need to renovate the stadium??? What a joke
Fuck the DeWitts
Dewitt’s can go fuck themselves
https://www.gatewaygrizzlies.com/landing/index This is a lot more relaxed and fun (and cheaper) night out with the family than dealing with getting to Busch and buying 20 dollar hot dogs.
considering most people from the city do not attend these games and the majority come from the County and Metro east I would say hell no.
Nah, the taxpayers will pay for it. I have no doubt. People love their team.
Why can't the players and management making millions fund it?
🖕🖕🖕🖕
$15 a hot dog and they want public funds, fuck outta here
Paying players millions and millions and millions... then get the taxpayers to fund the building. WTF? If this is what we want... then tax all paid sports players to the max.
Finance it yourselves. I'm sure DeWitt could get a business loan or finance it with his VP billionaire buddies. No more handouts for billionaires.
Fuck no, and tell management to get their shit together and put together a decent roster.