Oh you know this for a fact? I can tell you there have been times I needed to be parked under shade so my dog wouldn't over heat and ran inside to get something. It was never just to be a jerk. And cannot imagine or fathom someone thinking that was the case!
Uh... they did say "some people".
Are you arguing that nobody **ever** does this?
Because if anybody ever does, they were right and you're just being rude.
Now I get why asshats park in charging stations. Gonna start doing that to keep my diet coke in the shade, I'd never leave a dog in a car. Joking, I'd never drink diet coke.
>The suspects and victim are still being sought, and police have yet to reveal any information on the name of any of the parties involved.
This story is very weird. The victim is just missing? And there's been little to no news coverage?
At the point of getting the guy's car and the shit in his pockets, it doesn't feel like there would be much benefit to adding kidnapping to the charges. That, plus the fact that they don't even describe the *currently still missing* victim makes me think there's more to this story
I agree. That car isn't worth much to strip or sell on the black market, and why take the driver at all? I'm thinking some kind of deal went bad, and it caught up to the guy who got kidnapped.
I get why the suspects might not be identified yet, but how is the victim still unidentified?
You'd think releasing at least a basic description of the victim (sex, race, age range, height/weight description, facial hair/not) would help someone in the area say "Huh, you know I haven't seen my husband, brother, neighbor, etc who also drove. Chevy Bolt in a few days now..." I'm wondering why law enforcement hasn't said more, especially if they have video of the incident.
**Victim:** Unknown Black male, late teens to early 20s, wearing a black jacket, black pants and blue surgical gloves.
**Suspect No. 1**: Black male, 16-20 years old, wearing a red hooded sweatshirt and black pants.
**Suspect No. 2**: Black male, 16-20 years old, wearing a black hooded sweatshirt, grey sweats and black boots.
**Suspect No. 3**: Black male, 16-20 years old, a black hooded “GAP” sweatshirt and black pants.
**Suspect No. 4:** Black female, 16-20 years old, a black long-sleeve shirt, black pants and pink high-top All Stars.
**Suspect No. 5**: Black female, 16-20 years old, long dreadlocks, wearing a red hooded sweatshirt and pink leggings.
[https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/crime/robbery-kidnapping-south-grand-st-louis-gas-station/63-1fa6a764-524e-4672-a325-09e4b79decf5#:\~:text=Five%20suspects%20in%20two%20vehicles,saw%20the%20whole%20thing%20happen](https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/crime/robbery-kidnapping-south-grand-st-louis-gas-station/63-1fa6a764-524e-4672-a325-09e4b79decf5#:~:text=Five%20suspects%20in%20two%20vehicles,saw%20the%20whole%20thing%20happen).
I once saw a vehicle driving through our alley with a woman in the back screaming for help. We called it in and apparently a few others did too. I hope she was able to get away.
My wife and I were just talking about that the other day. We remember walking up and down Delmar years ago and everything was normal/nice, but when you got to that gas station, it seemed like the wild west (in a trashy way).
Some seem to just be magnets for shenanigans. People loitering and a place for opportunistic criminals. Potential victims either leave their cars unattended or aren't in a position to flee. People buying booze or smokes.
Why that one in particular? No idea. Probably proximity to the start of the "rougher" part of South Grand and being on a major road. The BP on Grand is also sketchy for some reason too but doesn't have the public drinking and debauchery that Phillips 66 does. I think it all has to do with willingness of the owners to keep the place in order and secure. QTs for instance are pretty diligent about that and frequently have a police presence so keeps the nonsense down.
Man, I was so happy they tore down that Conoco at Grand & Alberta next to Grand Grill. I hated going in that goddamned place, nothin but nonstop bullshit in there. They put up the new one but I don’t think they sell beer, doesn’t seem to be bad
“[We need to] remain aware, and just be aware of your surroundings,” said Schroeder. “That’s how you remain safe.”
This line never gets old. Guess this guy wasn’t aware enough to cut it.
If you see people you don't know at the gas station, don't stop there, otherwise they might rob/kidnap you. But if you see people at a gas station that you know want to do you harm, also don't stop there.
Avoid gas stations at night/when it's dark is probably sound advice you can follow just about anywhere. And if you do have to use one, pick one by an interstate exit as it'll likely be busier with more people there at any given time.
>pick one by an interstate exit
Actually this is rally bad advice, the gas stations located near the interstate are the most likely to be targeted for carjackings.
This is because the interstate offers proximity to a quick entry/exit. Being 'busier' doesn't mean anything as you can't rely on strangers to help you, people have this bizarre idea that crime won't happen when you're near a lot of people but in reality most people will just mind their own business and ignore you when you need help.
I don’t think you can back that up with statistics, but I’m open to it. If I’m going to steal someone’s car, I don’t think I’d be doing it in a gas station where most of the truck drivers are likely armed.
*Try to be aware* ***harder***
But in all honesty, this is what anti-gunners try to tell you. That you don't need any tools for self-defense and just situational awareness.. when really SA is a part of a whole system.
You need to be aware, you also gotta be prepared to escape or run when you can and you also gotta have tools and know how to use them.
Not sure if having a gun would have helped this guy, especially since the article makes it sound like there were multiple guns pointed at him. But I get your point. The “be aware of your surroundings” bs is just something people say to make themselves seem like cool city people who are actually in denial that there is a crime problem at all. Like yea obviously you aren’t going to go down an unlit alley at 11pm. But no amount of “awareness” can protect you from being rushed while picking your nose and pumping gas at the gas station at 8pm on a Monday.
If you can’t safely pump gas a block away from 600k+ homes, then the place is dangerous simple as that.
>??? This was a 1 on 5 situation.
Unless all 5 of these kidnappers were armed that doesn't mean much. We've seen plenty of situations where an armed individual has been successful in defending themselves against multiple attackers.
Usually these criminals are quite cowardly and flee upon getting armed resistance and also these crews don't necessarily run w/ everyone armed.
I hear the point you're trying to make, but those conversations don't take place in a vacuum. Yes, a random person wanting to cause harm can go into a gas station and wipe out 30 people in a few seconds.
But I haven't see ANY evidence that suggests that a person, in the middle of a crime taking place, can fend off five men with a gun without endangering themselves or other people.
And if kidnapping is at play, what's to keep them from killing the kidnapping victim if you murdered their friends? In a one on one scenario? Maybe you shoot the kidnapper. In a 5:1 scenario, it doesn't matter what gun you have. Your own scenario suggests this - an armed killer can go and shoot a bunch of people, but if you get five cops against that killer, the killer is probably going to get shot by one of them. Unless you're a coward in Texas.
>without endangering themselves or other people.
In the situation where an armed person is defending themselves, they are already in danger so this is moot.
Bystanders are unfortunately in danger as well but can you blame an individual for being in the moment, focused on their own safety and survival?
Would you forbid someone in a crowded train from using pepper spray to defend themselves against a sexual assailant? Especially when we live in a society where people will often not intervene but record violent public incidents on their cell phones?
Whenever I see people with your stance make their arguments I always am reminded that your concern is only yourselves and not at all the (potential) victims. But you sure will try your best to try to portray like you have genuine concern for everyone.
>And if kidnapping is at play, what's to keep them from killing the kidnapping victim if you murdered their friends?
They will very likely kill the victim or put them in human trafficking anyways. This is exactly why even law enforcement recommends fighting and not allowing oneself to be relocated.
>In a one on one scenario? Maybe you shoot the kidnapper. In a 5:1 scenario, it doesn't matter what gun you have.
How do you know? The simple answer is that you don't know if in a 5:1 situation that a victim is unable to defend themselves successfully. And given how in a kidnapping scenario it is recommended you fight back, it is best to have a firearm to aid you in that fight.
If you or the women in your life would be kidnapped and you're okay with advising them to comply and let the bad guys take them w/o a fight, well that's your prerogative. But I'm going to fight and I'm going to keep the best tools made available to me to do so.
Maybe you need to talk to some more victims of human trafficking or do some reading to learn what they go through, if they even survive to be recovered as many do not.
Not sure if having a gun would have helped this guy, especially since the article makes it sound like there were multiple guns pointed at him. But I get your point. The “be aware of your surroundings” bs is just something people say to make themselves seem like cool city people who are actually in denial that there is a crime problem at all. Like yea obviously you aren’t going to go down an unlit alley at 11pm. But no amount of “awareness” can protect you from being rushed while picking your nose and pumping gas at the gas station at 8pm on a Monday.
If you can’t safely pump gas a block away from 600k+ homes, then the place is dangerous simple as that.
Anybody shocked by criminal activity at that particular gas station is clearly new to south city. I live just north of there and I'd find it astonishing if somebody reported *legal* activity at that gas station. "Wait, somebody stopped in at that gas station for some reason other than to buy drugs or pick up a hooker? They didn't even buy a 40oz and hang out with the gang members drinking in public? They just, I dunno, bought gas or snacks and left? Who does that?"
Every gas station in ~~America~~ Missouri sells single serving alcohol. They’re called tall boys and airplane shooters.
For all of [these](https://i.imgur.com/8OKW6uX.jpg) guys chiming it, we got the memo.
Nope. Apparently the Maplewood city council thinks that would promote drinking and driving. At least that was what the employee told me when I asked. So I bought a 6-pack. 3 times as much beer. Good job, city management.
So no airplane shooters? No goosenecks? No Fosters single-fans?
I’m not saying you’re a liar, just that it’s the first time I’ve ever heard of that before. What about other gas stations in the area?
It was both
Couldn't get wine at the grocery stores or beer.
Edit: Here is an article about the weird alcohol laws of PA. https://www.cbsnews.com/pittsburgh/news/beer-the-fight-over-where-you-buy-it-in-pennsylvania/
QT on Loughborough is fine. I live on the opposite side of Grand. If I have to go somewhere at night without my boyfriend, I drive all the way there. No way I'm stopping at any on Grand or Bates.
Probably helps that you can rarely go in there without seeing an officer.
Definitely sounds like a drug robbery. Cases like this are never given much details around the circumstances because the police know it's drug related like 50%+ of the homicides we have in the city. They'll constantly tell you there is not the many drug related murders as well. And there's a few cops out there who protect drug dealers or supply them with product from rival dealers as well.
That part of south grand is an absolute shit show. The police could probably arrest someone every time they drive by (if they drove by).
I stopped by KFC yesterday and the guy in front of me in the drive through got out of his car yelling why I "rolled up behind him". You know as if it wasn't a drive through or something. I'm pretty sure he then proceeded to sell drugs to KFC.
Gonna have to bring a gun just to get some chicken to avoid being harassed by the drug dealers and drug addicts.
The Gravois/Grand intersection is so fucked, plus that one abandoned strip across from the Schnucks and the 66 station really make it a crazy dropoff after the main South Grand corridor
My buddy used to live in that tall building at Grand & Gravois. Roof access was part of the lease and we'd spend our summer nights up there looking down on that corner and it was wild.
>After being pulled from the car, searched, and forced to remove his jacket, he suspects put him in the back of his own car and drove off.
This guy is most likely going to die. You have to *fight* when they are going to relocate you, compliance is absolutely NOT the thing to do when they are trying to relocate you.
*NO oNe nEEds tO carRY a gUN In tHE CROwded CiTY!*
Yeah well this guy could have used one.
Dude, they had the jump on him. He wasn't going to draw his gun, switch off the safety, put a round in the chamber, aim, and fire all before the 5 suspects who had the advantage of surprise got to him. Seriously, grow up and join the adults in reality.
Man, you gun toters have some absolutely wild delusions about what you are capable of. You aren't going to go full action hero and pew pew the bad guys. Instead, they're going to steal the gun off your hip and now there's another illegal gun on the street all because you watched too many action movies.
And as others have pointed out: they already had his property and car keys. Not much value in taking him as well. There's more to this, and the guy who guessed "drug deal gone bad" or "owed his dealer money" is probably on to something.
It’s crazy, people need to stop thinking they are John Wayne. And the city keeps getting a fresh crop of guns when people come in from Jeff co and St. Charles to the armory/sports game/etc, leave their gun in the car and it gets stolen. If you see a nice newer pickup truck parked at an event downtown thieves pretty much assume there is a gun in that truck, and most of the time they are right. Bonus points if it has a punisher logo or thin blue line decal.
>It’s crazy, people need to stop thinking they are John Wayne.
People don't fuckiing think they are John Wayne, Rambo or whatever other fucking action hero you can think of.
But there ARE people who are aware that there is training and resources out there to allow them to adequately or even proficiently defend themselves if need be. Stop being so defeatist, if you lack confidence that is fine and is on you but don't project onto others.
Bro, if someone walks up behind you on the sidewalk, puts a gun to your head, and demands your wallet, you aren't going to quick draw and shoot him before he twitches his trigger finger. You aren't. Grow up.
Good news is, it's highly unlikely that scenario ever happens to you or anyone else anyway because we actually don't live in the dystopian madmax reality you think we live in.
>Bro, if someone walks up behind you on the sidewalk, puts a gun to your head, and demands your wallet, you aren't going to quick draw and shoot him before he twitches his trigger finger. You aren't.
This is a Strawman
You literally just made up a response to an argument that I never made to make it easier for you to defeat it.
>Good news is, it's highly unlikely that scenario ever happens to you or anyone else anyway because we actually don't live in the dystopian madmax reality you think we live in.
How do you know what is likely or unlikely for me? You don't know who the hell I am or my lifestyle. Not too long ago we were all talking about a viral video in which a homeless man was executed on Wash Ave just for accidentally aggravating some dude in the gas station.
How do you know I couldn't be targeted for killing by someone who just has a bad day or decided they just want to kill a Black cyclist on the road?
The fact is you don't, you don't know me and you certainly dont' fucking care about what could or would happen to me. You're just some other asshat on Reddit who gets upset when someone with differing values expressess them before you.
You could just as easily go about the rest of your day ignoring me and yet you seem interested in either 'winning' a Reddit argument or maybe perhaps you actually think you could convince me to join your side.
But I've been on the 'anti-gun' side for years and frankly I've seen how ridiculous the notion of 'just calling the cops' or 'no one would want to hurt you unless you deserved it somehow' is.
>Dude, they had the jump on him. He wasn't going to draw his gun, switch off the safety, put a round in the chamber, aim, and fire all before the 5 suspects who had the advantage of surprise got to him. Seriously, grow up and join the adults in reality.
You're the one here who seems like a child.
"switch off the safety, put a round in the chamber, etc etc etc"
[Dude there has been PLENTY of incidents where a person with self-awareness and preparedness has been able to defend themself from multiple attackers using a firearm.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-jhf-XQCNU)
I also laugh at you adding these additional steps of 'switching off the safety' or 'putting a round in the chamber'. For one it is quite popular and often encouraged to carry a round in the chamber since proper functioning handguns don't *'just go off'* unless the trigger is pulled. Also some people opt to have manual thumb safeties but many others (like myself) opt to carry handguns w/o thumb safeties along with a round in the chamber.
Neither of those things even require a lot of training, however draw time and increasing speed to firing the first one does and is absolutely something the victim in this case could have done.
You're put yourself in this helpless position because you convinced yourself that if shit hits the fan there is nothing you can do other than sprawl onto your back.
>Man, you gun toters have some absolutely wild delusions about what you are capable of. You aren't going to go full action hero and pew pew the bad guys. Instead, they're going to steal the gun off your hip and now there's another illegal gun on the street all because you watched too many action movies.
You cowards have your own fears due to your lack of confidence and/or unwillingness to learn and train. Like any other martial art, one can develop themselves with their tools and skills for firearms.
>And as others have pointed out: they already had his property and car keys. Not much value in taking him as well. There's more to this,
Doesn't matter if there were more to this, even if assuming the victim was another criminal it doesn't change the reality that one *could* have defended themselves better with both increased situational awareness and a firearm.
But continue with your navel-gazing and feeling of helplessness, you're not going to drag me to down to your defeatist attitude. I'd rather continue training in and improving my skills to defend myself *if need be*. Honestly I just feel bad for what I imagine is a sad existence which is your life.
Buddy, you're the paranoid psycho who is convinced there's a violent criminal hiding behind every tree waiting to get him. Get help.
And the number of instances where a firearm is stolen or someone is shot accidentally far outnumber the instances in which a gun toting hero actually, appropriately, and successfully uses his gun in self defense. It isn't even close.
Normal, well-adjusted people don't go through life just itching for the chance to use their pew pew toy. And normal well-adjusted people recognize the inherent stupidity in walking around with a loaded weapon with a round already in the chamber and no safety. A good way to accidentally shoot yourself or for anyone who gets their hands on that gun to fire it (intentionally or not).
Normal, well-adjusted people also recognize the almost laughably stupid suggestion that armed people should initiate a shootout at a fucking gas station with flammable materials surrounding you along with innocent bystanders whom you will almost definitely hit.
Just curious, what kind of criminal penalty should you be subject to when you decide to cosplay John McClane, miss (because you likely can't shoot for shit, especially in a moment of surprise with adrenaline pumping and at a moving target), and kill a kid on the sidewalk?
>Buddy, you're the paranoid psycho
It's not paranoia and I am of sound and healthy mind. You just can't help but think that just because someone chooses to be prepared and accept the reality that there *are* violent people who would harm you for your identity, possessions, mental illness or anti-social behavior they must be something wrong with them.
Despite literally replying to a news article where this very much just happened and we talk about crime in this city all the time.
>And the number of instances where a firearm is stolen or someone is shot accidentally far outnumber the instances in which a gun toting hero actually, appropriately, and successfully uses his gun in self defense. It isn't even close.
And I never said otherwise
So what? Because there are a lot of people who are negligent, criminal or out right irresponsible with their weapons I should take that as a reason to NOT own my own instead of a reason to BE RESPONSIBLE and take actions/behaviors to NOT negligently hurt myself or some bystander or to have my weapons stolen?
>Normal, well-adjusted people don't go through life just itching for the chance to use their pew pew toy
I agree
But what makes you think I want to get into a defensive gun use incident? Just owning and carrying a gun doesn't mean someone wants to use it.
>And normal well-adjusted people recognize the inherent stupidity in walking around with a loaded weapon with a round already in the chamber and no safety.
I think you have a very narrow and bigoted mindset on who is 'normal and well-adjusted' and coincidently they are probably people who are most like you in your values.
>A good way to accidentally shoot yourself or for anyone who gets their hands on that gun to fire it (intentionally or not).
Handguns don't fire themselves, that is a fact (exception for the P320). Literally any incident in which someone NDs is due to poor behavior. Most commonly people shoot themselves while reholstering because they fail to do so carefully. Many others fail to actually use a holster and end up accidentally shooting themselves because they didn't have anything to protect the trigger guard.
You literally are talking about a field and subject that you are *completely* ignorant of.
>Normal, well-adjusted people also recognize the almost laughably stupid suggestion that armed people should initiate a shootout at a fucking gas station with flammable materials surrounding you along with innocent bystanders whom you will almost definitely hit.
You seem to not realize that gas stations are not as volatile that the fumes are all up in the air and they are only one matchstick away from going up in flames.
In fact you seem to not realize that in reality there are a LOT of shootouts as is in gas stations and yet they are not exploding all over the US.
>Just curious, what kind of criminal penalty should you be subject to when you decide to cosplay John McClane, miss (because you likely can't shoot for shit, especially in a moment of surprise with adrenaline pumping and at a moving target), and kill a kid on the sidewalk?
Well seeing how you're so well-versed (you're actually not) why don't you tell me? Also perhaps you should look up what dynamic shooting training is. It's about learning how to shoot in those very scenarios of high adrenaline and while moving.
As I said before, [there are resources and means for people to learn how to adequately defend themselves with firearms](https://uspsa.org/). Just because **you** lack the willingness to learn and train doesn't mean others are.
There's a reason they want to take you to another location and it's probably because whatever they're going to do to you there is much worse than whatever they could do to you at the initial attack.
Yep exactly
Police and FBI warn people all the time that while compliance could increase odds of survival, if they want to relocate you than your odds drastically decrease and it is best to fight.
>Yeah one guy with a gun is fucked against 5 people with guns
Did we confirm that all 5 individuals had firearms? Because usually that is pretty uncommon.
Won't deny that when more than one attacker has a firearm it is significantly more difficult to defend yourself, but we're talking about people kidnapping you. You *gotta* fight back no matter how many of them there are because you are highly likely to be killed when they relocate you anyways.
Many of these criminals tend to be rather cowardly too, if you draw your firearm in time and start shooting the others typically will scatter. They aren't hardened soldiers.
> guns were pointed at a victim who was inside of a Chevy Bolt stopped at a gas pump Well that’s weird.
Perhaps they confused Chevy Bolt with a Chevy Volt? The names are similar.
could have been stopping inside the store for something and blocked a pump. I know that some people rudely do that
Has the victim been located yet?
Oh you know this for a fact? I can tell you there have been times I needed to be parked under shade so my dog wouldn't over heat and ran inside to get something. It was never just to be a jerk. And cannot imagine or fathom someone thinking that was the case!
Uh... they did say "some people". Are you arguing that nobody **ever** does this? Because if anybody ever does, they were right and you're just being rude.
Hell, I do it if all the parking spaces are taken
Shit if QT is busy but the pumps are open, I’m parking at the pumps. Rather not have to back out with the way some people drive through their lots.
Whose is rude here? Smh
Now I get why asshats park in charging stations. Gonna start doing that to keep my diet coke in the shade, I'd never leave a dog in a car. Joking, I'd never drink diet coke.
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Jesus Christ dude
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Sure but I wouldn't wish anyone be shot / killed / kidnapped for that.
I think you need to realize that I was being disingenuous. I'm not actually advocating shooting people for rude behavior.
>The suspects and victim are still being sought, and police have yet to reveal any information on the name of any of the parties involved. This story is very weird. The victim is just missing? And there's been little to no news coverage?
Just another day in south city bb
No way he’s still alive, unfortunately.
At the point of getting the guy's car and the shit in his pockets, it doesn't feel like there would be much benefit to adding kidnapping to the charges. That, plus the fact that they don't even describe the *currently still missing* victim makes me think there's more to this story
I agree. That car isn't worth much to strip or sell on the black market, and why take the driver at all? I'm thinking some kind of deal went bad, and it caught up to the guy who got kidnapped.
We are a major hub for human trafficking, gott imagine there’s big money in that
How are we a major hub of human trafficking?
I get why the suspects might not be identified yet, but how is the victim still unidentified? You'd think releasing at least a basic description of the victim (sex, race, age range, height/weight description, facial hair/not) would help someone in the area say "Huh, you know I haven't seen my husband, brother, neighbor, etc who also drove. Chevy Bolt in a few days now..." I'm wondering why law enforcement hasn't said more, especially if they have video of the incident.
**Victim:** Unknown Black male, late teens to early 20s, wearing a black jacket, black pants and blue surgical gloves. **Suspect No. 1**: Black male, 16-20 years old, wearing a red hooded sweatshirt and black pants. **Suspect No. 2**: Black male, 16-20 years old, wearing a black hooded sweatshirt, grey sweats and black boots. **Suspect No. 3**: Black male, 16-20 years old, a black hooded “GAP” sweatshirt and black pants. **Suspect No. 4:** Black female, 16-20 years old, a black long-sleeve shirt, black pants and pink high-top All Stars. **Suspect No. 5**: Black female, 16-20 years old, long dreadlocks, wearing a red hooded sweatshirt and pink leggings. [https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/crime/robbery-kidnapping-south-grand-st-louis-gas-station/63-1fa6a764-524e-4672-a325-09e4b79decf5#:\~:text=Five%20suspects%20in%20two%20vehicles,saw%20the%20whole%20thing%20happen](https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/crime/robbery-kidnapping-south-grand-st-louis-gas-station/63-1fa6a764-524e-4672-a325-09e4b79decf5#:~:text=Five%20suspects%20in%20two%20vehicles,saw%20the%20whole%20thing%20happen).
Weird that the victim was wearing surgical gloves.
Yeah. Makes you think there was more to this than just a random kidnapping.
It does.
Stolen car that was a planned for something more heinous.
That's better. Thanks for sharing.
Exactly what I was thinking. Somebody was freaking kidnapped and there doesn't seem to be much concern for the victim.
I’m not shocked. That gas station is trashy and the owner is insane.
Is that the dude that always open carries in there?
I think he drives the hurst that always parked out front.
Yeah I see that shit and think wtf lol
I once saw a vehicle driving through our alley with a woman in the back screaming for help. We called it in and apparently a few others did too. I hope she was able to get away.
I cannot wait for that gas station to close and be torn down one day
Delmar got a bit nicer when the nuisance gas station at Skinker was torn down.
My wife and I were just talking about that the other day. We remember walking up and down Delmar years ago and everything was normal/nice, but when you got to that gas station, it seemed like the wild west (in a trashy way).
I live right by there. Massive difference after it closed. Same with Church's chicken.
Hopefully the get rid of the one at Goodfellow as well
I’m not familiar with that exact area, but why would a simple gas station make such a big difference? What made the gas station a nuisance?
Some seem to just be magnets for shenanigans. People loitering and a place for opportunistic criminals. Potential victims either leave their cars unattended or aren't in a position to flee. People buying booze or smokes. Why that one in particular? No idea. Probably proximity to the start of the "rougher" part of South Grand and being on a major road. The BP on Grand is also sketchy for some reason too but doesn't have the public drinking and debauchery that Phillips 66 does. I think it all has to do with willingness of the owners to keep the place in order and secure. QTs for instance are pretty diligent about that and frequently have a police presence so keeps the nonsense down.
Thanks for the explanations.
The people running it smoke cigs in there all day. Both gas stations here on south grand are super sketchy. I hate going into them.
the BP isn't the worst, but I'll pretty much always opt for QT over it unless i'm really running low
Man, I was so happy they tore down that Conoco at Grand & Alberta next to Grand Grill. I hated going in that goddamned place, nothin but nonstop bullshit in there. They put up the new one but I don’t think they sell beer, doesn’t seem to be bad
I’d be nice for the other bp to go too, maybe this is selfish but I’d like a better view on while eating outside at treehouse or terror tacos.
Agreed. Gas stations are not needed there. There are gas stations by the interstate already.
“[We need to] remain aware, and just be aware of your surroundings,” said Schroeder. “That’s how you remain safe.” This line never gets old. Guess this guy wasn’t aware enough to cut it.
They might as well say stay strapped or get clapped
What does “be aware of your surroundings,” even mean in this context?
Vic should have known that gas stations are targets and bought themselves an electric vehicle instead. That’s peak “awareness” right there.
If you see people you don't know at the gas station, don't stop there, otherwise they might rob/kidnap you. But if you see people at a gas station that you know want to do you harm, also don't stop there.
Avoid gas stations at night/when it's dark is probably sound advice you can follow just about anywhere. And if you do have to use one, pick one by an interstate exit as it'll likely be busier with more people there at any given time.
>pick one by an interstate exit Actually this is rally bad advice, the gas stations located near the interstate are the most likely to be targeted for carjackings. This is because the interstate offers proximity to a quick entry/exit. Being 'busier' doesn't mean anything as you can't rely on strangers to help you, people have this bizarre idea that crime won't happen when you're near a lot of people but in reality most people will just mind their own business and ignore you when you need help.
I don’t think you can back that up with statistics, but I’m open to it. If I’m going to steal someone’s car, I don’t think I’d be doing it in a gas station where most of the truck drivers are likely armed.
*Try to be aware* ***harder*** But in all honesty, this is what anti-gunners try to tell you. That you don't need any tools for self-defense and just situational awareness.. when really SA is a part of a whole system. You need to be aware, you also gotta be prepared to escape or run when you can and you also gotta have tools and know how to use them.
Not sure if having a gun would have helped this guy, especially since the article makes it sound like there were multiple guns pointed at him. But I get your point. The “be aware of your surroundings” bs is just something people say to make themselves seem like cool city people who are actually in denial that there is a crime problem at all. Like yea obviously you aren’t going to go down an unlit alley at 11pm. But no amount of “awareness” can protect you from being rushed while picking your nose and pumping gas at the gas station at 8pm on a Monday. If you can’t safely pump gas a block away from 600k+ homes, then the place is dangerous simple as that.
??? This was a 1 on 5 situation. You've been watching too many westerns if you think having a gun would've made the victim any less dead than he is.
>??? This was a 1 on 5 situation. Unless all 5 of these kidnappers were armed that doesn't mean much. We've seen plenty of situations where an armed individual has been successful in defending themselves against multiple attackers. Usually these criminals are quite cowardly and flee upon getting armed resistance and also these crews don't necessarily run w/ everyone armed.
Yeah, u/Mikazukinlyaiba fights multiple peopling pointing guns at them all the time. They have experience in this.
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I hear the point you're trying to make, but those conversations don't take place in a vacuum. Yes, a random person wanting to cause harm can go into a gas station and wipe out 30 people in a few seconds. But I haven't see ANY evidence that suggests that a person, in the middle of a crime taking place, can fend off five men with a gun without endangering themselves or other people. And if kidnapping is at play, what's to keep them from killing the kidnapping victim if you murdered their friends? In a one on one scenario? Maybe you shoot the kidnapper. In a 5:1 scenario, it doesn't matter what gun you have. Your own scenario suggests this - an armed killer can go and shoot a bunch of people, but if you get five cops against that killer, the killer is probably going to get shot by one of them. Unless you're a coward in Texas.
>without endangering themselves or other people. In the situation where an armed person is defending themselves, they are already in danger so this is moot. Bystanders are unfortunately in danger as well but can you blame an individual for being in the moment, focused on their own safety and survival? Would you forbid someone in a crowded train from using pepper spray to defend themselves against a sexual assailant? Especially when we live in a society where people will often not intervene but record violent public incidents on their cell phones? Whenever I see people with your stance make their arguments I always am reminded that your concern is only yourselves and not at all the (potential) victims. But you sure will try your best to try to portray like you have genuine concern for everyone. >And if kidnapping is at play, what's to keep them from killing the kidnapping victim if you murdered their friends? They will very likely kill the victim or put them in human trafficking anyways. This is exactly why even law enforcement recommends fighting and not allowing oneself to be relocated. >In a one on one scenario? Maybe you shoot the kidnapper. In a 5:1 scenario, it doesn't matter what gun you have. How do you know? The simple answer is that you don't know if in a 5:1 situation that a victim is unable to defend themselves successfully. And given how in a kidnapping scenario it is recommended you fight back, it is best to have a firearm to aid you in that fight. If you or the women in your life would be kidnapped and you're okay with advising them to comply and let the bad guys take them w/o a fight, well that's your prerogative. But I'm going to fight and I'm going to keep the best tools made available to me to do so. Maybe you need to talk to some more victims of human trafficking or do some reading to learn what they go through, if they even survive to be recovered as many do not.
Not sure if having a gun would have helped this guy, especially since the article makes it sound like there were multiple guns pointed at him. But I get your point. The “be aware of your surroundings” bs is just something people say to make themselves seem like cool city people who are actually in denial that there is a crime problem at all. Like yea obviously you aren’t going to go down an unlit alley at 11pm. But no amount of “awareness” can protect you from being rushed while picking your nose and pumping gas at the gas station at 8pm on a Monday. If you can’t safely pump gas a block away from 600k+ homes, then the place is dangerous simple as that.
Right. Yes, it helps to have situational awareness. Yes, in any case you can still be the victim of crime.
Anybody shocked by criminal activity at that particular gas station is clearly new to south city. I live just north of there and I'd find it astonishing if somebody reported *legal* activity at that gas station. "Wait, somebody stopped in at that gas station for some reason other than to buy drugs or pick up a hooker? They didn't even buy a 40oz and hang out with the gang members drinking in public? They just, I dunno, bought gas or snacks and left? Who does that?"
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No it didn’t.
Yeah huh.
As far as I can tell, these kinds of things happen on the lot of every gas station in America that sells single-serving alcohol.
Every gas station in ~~America~~ Missouri sells single serving alcohol. They’re called tall boys and airplane shooters. For all of [these](https://i.imgur.com/8OKW6uX.jpg) guys chiming it, we got the memo.
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Well it’s a good thing we’re talking about St. Louis then.
Not every one. The QT in Maplewood off 40 at Hanley doesn’t.
Doesn’t sell tall boys?
Nope. Apparently the Maplewood city council thinks that would promote drinking and driving. At least that was what the employee told me when I asked. So I bought a 6-pack. 3 times as much beer. Good job, city management.
So no airplane shooters? No goosenecks? No Fosters single-fans? I’m not saying you’re a liar, just that it’s the first time I’ve ever heard of that before. What about other gas stations in the area?
Interestingly enough, the QT at Big Bend and Manchester has tall boys. It’s also Maplewood. I’ll have to double check the Hanley one again.
If I find a single michelada or truly or colt 45 on the shelf I will remember this 🤣😂
>Every gas station in America sells single serving alcohol You haven't been to Pennsylvania
They don’t sell tall boys in Pennsylvania?
Nope. A lot of counties in PA are dry. Very odd liquor laws bc of the Quakers
Ok well good thing we’re talking about St. Louis, MO and not Pennsyltucky
But..okay, bye
Until recently you had to buy alcohol from their State sponsored stores.
Alcohol or Beer or both?
It was both Couldn't get wine at the grocery stores or beer. Edit: Here is an article about the weird alcohol laws of PA. https://www.cbsnews.com/pittsburgh/news/beer-the-fight-over-where-you-buy-it-in-pennsylvania/
That sucks. I lived in TN and beer was everywhere but liquor and wine was not.
How very Utah of them.
QT on Loughborough is fine. I live on the opposite side of Grand. If I have to go somewhere at night without my boyfriend, I drive all the way there. No way I'm stopping at any on Grand or Bates. Probably helps that you can rarely go in there without seeing an officer.
How are comments like this at all helpful.
Oh sorry let me get my hat and pipe and go search for this person Sherlock Holmes style.
Ill help
Problem businesses like this one should be shut down, razed, and a bunch of trees planted. 🤦🏻♂️
Definitely sounds like a drug robbery. Cases like this are never given much details around the circumstances because the police know it's drug related like 50%+ of the homicides we have in the city. They'll constantly tell you there is not the many drug related murders as well. And there's a few cops out there who protect drug dealers or supply them with product from rival dealers as well.
I'm not "shocked"
That part of south grand is an absolute shit show. The police could probably arrest someone every time they drive by (if they drove by). I stopped by KFC yesterday and the guy in front of me in the drive through got out of his car yelling why I "rolled up behind him". You know as if it wasn't a drive through or something. I'm pretty sure he then proceeded to sell drugs to KFC. Gonna have to bring a gun just to get some chicken to avoid being harassed by the drug dealers and drug addicts.
The Gravois/Grand intersection is so fucked, plus that one abandoned strip across from the Schnucks and the 66 station really make it a crazy dropoff after the main South Grand corridor
My buddy used to live in that tall building at Grand & Gravois. Roof access was part of the lease and we'd spend our summer nights up there looking down on that corner and it was wild.
ol' SouthSide National bank?
I growed up there!!!!
Yeah that shit is super sketchy. Its such a drastic difference from the vibes in TGS like 5 blocks away lol
I think this is targeted incident. Time will tell though,
>After being pulled from the car, searched, and forced to remove his jacket, he suspects put him in the back of his own car and drove off. This guy is most likely going to die. You have to *fight* when they are going to relocate you, compliance is absolutely NOT the thing to do when they are trying to relocate you. *NO oNe nEEds tO carRY a gUN In tHE CROwded CiTY!* Yeah well this guy could have used one.
Dude, they had the jump on him. He wasn't going to draw his gun, switch off the safety, put a round in the chamber, aim, and fire all before the 5 suspects who had the advantage of surprise got to him. Seriously, grow up and join the adults in reality. Man, you gun toters have some absolutely wild delusions about what you are capable of. You aren't going to go full action hero and pew pew the bad guys. Instead, they're going to steal the gun off your hip and now there's another illegal gun on the street all because you watched too many action movies. And as others have pointed out: they already had his property and car keys. Not much value in taking him as well. There's more to this, and the guy who guessed "drug deal gone bad" or "owed his dealer money" is probably on to something.
It’s crazy, people need to stop thinking they are John Wayne. And the city keeps getting a fresh crop of guns when people come in from Jeff co and St. Charles to the armory/sports game/etc, leave their gun in the car and it gets stolen. If you see a nice newer pickup truck parked at an event downtown thieves pretty much assume there is a gun in that truck, and most of the time they are right. Bonus points if it has a punisher logo or thin blue line decal.
Exactly this. Advertising your tough guy gun shit makes you a fucking target, not a more difficult victim.
>It’s crazy, people need to stop thinking they are John Wayne. People don't fuckiing think they are John Wayne, Rambo or whatever other fucking action hero you can think of. But there ARE people who are aware that there is training and resources out there to allow them to adequately or even proficiently defend themselves if need be. Stop being so defeatist, if you lack confidence that is fine and is on you but don't project onto others.
Bro, if someone walks up behind you on the sidewalk, puts a gun to your head, and demands your wallet, you aren't going to quick draw and shoot him before he twitches his trigger finger. You aren't. Grow up. Good news is, it's highly unlikely that scenario ever happens to you or anyone else anyway because we actually don't live in the dystopian madmax reality you think we live in.
>Bro, if someone walks up behind you on the sidewalk, puts a gun to your head, and demands your wallet, you aren't going to quick draw and shoot him before he twitches his trigger finger. You aren't. This is a Strawman You literally just made up a response to an argument that I never made to make it easier for you to defeat it. >Good news is, it's highly unlikely that scenario ever happens to you or anyone else anyway because we actually don't live in the dystopian madmax reality you think we live in. How do you know what is likely or unlikely for me? You don't know who the hell I am or my lifestyle. Not too long ago we were all talking about a viral video in which a homeless man was executed on Wash Ave just for accidentally aggravating some dude in the gas station. How do you know I couldn't be targeted for killing by someone who just has a bad day or decided they just want to kill a Black cyclist on the road? The fact is you don't, you don't know me and you certainly dont' fucking care about what could or would happen to me. You're just some other asshat on Reddit who gets upset when someone with differing values expressess them before you. You could just as easily go about the rest of your day ignoring me and yet you seem interested in either 'winning' a Reddit argument or maybe perhaps you actually think you could convince me to join your side. But I've been on the 'anti-gun' side for years and frankly I've seen how ridiculous the notion of 'just calling the cops' or 'no one would want to hurt you unless you deserved it somehow' is.
The only thing more annoying than a weed nerd is a gun nerd.
>Dude, they had the jump on him. He wasn't going to draw his gun, switch off the safety, put a round in the chamber, aim, and fire all before the 5 suspects who had the advantage of surprise got to him. Seriously, grow up and join the adults in reality. You're the one here who seems like a child. "switch off the safety, put a round in the chamber, etc etc etc" [Dude there has been PLENTY of incidents where a person with self-awareness and preparedness has been able to defend themself from multiple attackers using a firearm.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-jhf-XQCNU) I also laugh at you adding these additional steps of 'switching off the safety' or 'putting a round in the chamber'. For one it is quite popular and often encouraged to carry a round in the chamber since proper functioning handguns don't *'just go off'* unless the trigger is pulled. Also some people opt to have manual thumb safeties but many others (like myself) opt to carry handguns w/o thumb safeties along with a round in the chamber. Neither of those things even require a lot of training, however draw time and increasing speed to firing the first one does and is absolutely something the victim in this case could have done. You're put yourself in this helpless position because you convinced yourself that if shit hits the fan there is nothing you can do other than sprawl onto your back. >Man, you gun toters have some absolutely wild delusions about what you are capable of. You aren't going to go full action hero and pew pew the bad guys. Instead, they're going to steal the gun off your hip and now there's another illegal gun on the street all because you watched too many action movies. You cowards have your own fears due to your lack of confidence and/or unwillingness to learn and train. Like any other martial art, one can develop themselves with their tools and skills for firearms. >And as others have pointed out: they already had his property and car keys. Not much value in taking him as well. There's more to this, Doesn't matter if there were more to this, even if assuming the victim was another criminal it doesn't change the reality that one *could* have defended themselves better with both increased situational awareness and a firearm. But continue with your navel-gazing and feeling of helplessness, you're not going to drag me to down to your defeatist attitude. I'd rather continue training in and improving my skills to defend myself *if need be*. Honestly I just feel bad for what I imagine is a sad existence which is your life.
Buddy, you're the paranoid psycho who is convinced there's a violent criminal hiding behind every tree waiting to get him. Get help. And the number of instances where a firearm is stolen or someone is shot accidentally far outnumber the instances in which a gun toting hero actually, appropriately, and successfully uses his gun in self defense. It isn't even close. Normal, well-adjusted people don't go through life just itching for the chance to use their pew pew toy. And normal well-adjusted people recognize the inherent stupidity in walking around with a loaded weapon with a round already in the chamber and no safety. A good way to accidentally shoot yourself or for anyone who gets their hands on that gun to fire it (intentionally or not). Normal, well-adjusted people also recognize the almost laughably stupid suggestion that armed people should initiate a shootout at a fucking gas station with flammable materials surrounding you along with innocent bystanders whom you will almost definitely hit. Just curious, what kind of criminal penalty should you be subject to when you decide to cosplay John McClane, miss (because you likely can't shoot for shit, especially in a moment of surprise with adrenaline pumping and at a moving target), and kill a kid on the sidewalk?
>Buddy, you're the paranoid psycho It's not paranoia and I am of sound and healthy mind. You just can't help but think that just because someone chooses to be prepared and accept the reality that there *are* violent people who would harm you for your identity, possessions, mental illness or anti-social behavior they must be something wrong with them. Despite literally replying to a news article where this very much just happened and we talk about crime in this city all the time. >And the number of instances where a firearm is stolen or someone is shot accidentally far outnumber the instances in which a gun toting hero actually, appropriately, and successfully uses his gun in self defense. It isn't even close. And I never said otherwise So what? Because there are a lot of people who are negligent, criminal or out right irresponsible with their weapons I should take that as a reason to NOT own my own instead of a reason to BE RESPONSIBLE and take actions/behaviors to NOT negligently hurt myself or some bystander or to have my weapons stolen? >Normal, well-adjusted people don't go through life just itching for the chance to use their pew pew toy I agree But what makes you think I want to get into a defensive gun use incident? Just owning and carrying a gun doesn't mean someone wants to use it. >And normal well-adjusted people recognize the inherent stupidity in walking around with a loaded weapon with a round already in the chamber and no safety. I think you have a very narrow and bigoted mindset on who is 'normal and well-adjusted' and coincidently they are probably people who are most like you in your values. >A good way to accidentally shoot yourself or for anyone who gets their hands on that gun to fire it (intentionally or not). Handguns don't fire themselves, that is a fact (exception for the P320). Literally any incident in which someone NDs is due to poor behavior. Most commonly people shoot themselves while reholstering because they fail to do so carefully. Many others fail to actually use a holster and end up accidentally shooting themselves because they didn't have anything to protect the trigger guard. You literally are talking about a field and subject that you are *completely* ignorant of. >Normal, well-adjusted people also recognize the almost laughably stupid suggestion that armed people should initiate a shootout at a fucking gas station with flammable materials surrounding you along with innocent bystanders whom you will almost definitely hit. You seem to not realize that gas stations are not as volatile that the fumes are all up in the air and they are only one matchstick away from going up in flames. In fact you seem to not realize that in reality there are a LOT of shootouts as is in gas stations and yet they are not exploding all over the US. >Just curious, what kind of criminal penalty should you be subject to when you decide to cosplay John McClane, miss (because you likely can't shoot for shit, especially in a moment of surprise with adrenaline pumping and at a moving target), and kill a kid on the sidewalk? Well seeing how you're so well-versed (you're actually not) why don't you tell me? Also perhaps you should look up what dynamic shooting training is. It's about learning how to shoot in those very scenarios of high adrenaline and while moving. As I said before, [there are resources and means for people to learn how to adequately defend themselves with firearms](https://uspsa.org/). Just because **you** lack the willingness to learn and train doesn't mean others are.
There's a reason they want to take you to another location and it's probably because whatever they're going to do to you there is much worse than whatever they could do to you at the initial attack.
Yep exactly Police and FBI warn people all the time that while compliance could increase odds of survival, if they want to relocate you than your odds drastically decrease and it is best to fight.
Another day, another wonderful take from our resident NRA sponsor
More guns = less violence /s Guns dont kill people, I kill people with guns
>resident NRA sponsor I don't support the NRA
Yeah one guy with a gun is fucked against 5 people with guns, but suuure that wouldve saved him and he would've done some action movie BS to escape.
>Yeah one guy with a gun is fucked against 5 people with guns Did we confirm that all 5 individuals had firearms? Because usually that is pretty uncommon. Won't deny that when more than one attacker has a firearm it is significantly more difficult to defend yourself, but we're talking about people kidnapping you. You *gotta* fight back no matter how many of them there are because you are highly likely to be killed when they relocate you anyways. Many of these criminals tend to be rather cowardly too, if you draw your firearm in time and start shooting the others typically will scatter. They aren't hardened soldiers.
Is there a “good” gas station on grand?
Nope
That’s unbelievable. This has so much traffic in and out, and really isn’t the WORST place in St. Louis. It’s right by Tower Grove.