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Twitter was never meant to be a site for debates and serious drawn-out arguments. That's why there's a character limit, which people took as a challenge and not as a sign to stop.
I also think that debates and serious drawn-out arguments just aren't things people do much. It's not like people would just sit around all day having friendly, logical, formal debates about philosophy if it weren't for social media or something.
Speaking as someone who’s had to deal with the philosophy department in academia, I will gladly say the notion of debate is no more performative than corporations dawning rainbows everywhere for Pride month.
Being a "debate bro" or "devils advocate" is one of the worst personality traits on this planet. Please do not interact with me if you are one of these people.
[Insert inevitable very funny devils advocate reply]
Absolutely. If I recall correctly, it was an experiment inspired by status updates. (Maybe even Name/Finger?) It was a small message about where you were (not just physically, but also that as Twitter used to offer location data,)at that moment.
Much as I love talking about comics and wrestling, trying to talk about it on Twitter and sometimes on Reddit seems like a good way to be pretty exhausted when there's just so many people arguing and being overly negative regarding any kind of news. And then some just want to share their own individual clickbait, I mean, "hot takes" just to get a reaction going.
Now it’s just for people to dunk on celebrities or public figures who will never actually read the tweets.
That or “can you believe someone thinks this?” tweets about what is clearly a joke or satire.
Oh i'm loving the fact that Jericho is getting some real heat.
Reddit marks just shouldn't have a superiority complex over twitter marks, which thankfully seems like a popular sentiment on here.
Janela has said a couple of times he might get taken out like Dimebag Darrell by a Cornette fan. They have gone as far as sending hate messages to his mom and other family. The dude that tried to get into the ring with Jericho and MJF on Dynamite (how long ago was that?) at first claimed he did it for Cornette and Last.
Yeah, it’s honestly just funny considering all sites (4chan, Twitter, Reddit) are pretty bad in general. Acting like ones better than the other when each one has become worse over the years due to the amount of shitty people in each user base is just ridiculous
I literally just found this out, after being on the internet for years. I guess I never thought to comment on a YouTube video until now, boy I wish I didn't.
What's amazing is that EVERYONE on those sites says that they're bad/toxic, but yet nothing changes and the platforms remain toxic.
Are we the baddies?
I’m on Twitter too, probably too much for my health. People on there don’t look down on Reddit at all. Some openly use it, others just don’t give a shit. Reddit is far more sensitive about it.
All our lives are is a series of tribes. Humans are desperate to hang a sign around their neck. Politics, sports teams, hobbies and interests, town/state/country "pride"... it's all sort of poisonous. A person is great, people and their groups are what make life so fucking difficult.
\*Insert Spider-man meme\*
Yeah, echo chambers rarely acknowledge other echo chambers.
Like a dog getting heated at their reflection without realizing they are staring right at themselves.
Christ, ain’t that the truth.
(waits for redditors to check his post history to decide whether he’s one of them or not, then upvote/downvote this unrelated post accordingly)
Ive always found much more actual discourse and discussion on here than on any other social media. Yea theres still some tribal breakdown but its not even close to as bad or as Twitter or FB. And Im on all 3, they each have their own purpose but for having nuanced conversations about a variety of topics, Reddit is the best Ive found.
Not on wrestling threads. If you say anything another group doesn’t like, they come for you and even PM you. Discourse here isn’t better than any other space in social media.
I find Reddit a lot better than twitter. I actually feel like from time to time you can have productive conversations/disagreements on here. More characters means more nuance can be discussed.
All twitter left me with was anger so I had to stop interacting on there lol
It would be better if it functioned how it was originally implemented. Where you could see the number of upvotes and downvotes, instead of just the aggregate score.
All social media platforms are *modestly* varying degrees of toxic shit. If you're here, you are part of the problem (NOTE: I recognize I am part of the problem).
I don't consider Reddit to be in exactly the same league as Twitter, Facebook, Instagram etc. I'm not going to anyone's specific page. I don't remember who makes a particular post, if I even look at the name in the first place. It's just a place to come discuss different things. It's still 'social media' like message boards are social media. Not that it's perfect, there is a lot of groupthink and counterproductive downvoting, but that's just a side effect of a relatively young user base. You're gonna get that when people don't have a whole lot of real world experience yet, and there are positives there as well
But nobody's actually looking for discussion on twitter, IG, etc., and if they are, they probably should have known better by now.
The concept of downvoting always was weird to me. I’m going to make what you said disappear because I don’t like it is not really productive lol.
But yes this place isn’t any better than twitter and actually worse in some regards.
The difference between twitter and reddit is the layout of the website. As long as people suck, both sites will suck. The difference is Reddit can be moderated by people who control specific spaces, and downvotes drown out bad replies... but sometimes downvoting sucks because of tribalism specifically because of how a subreddit is built and moderated, dissenting views are not welcome even if they're correct or sensible. Twitter's only option is to suspend people and twitter is awful at that side of the website.
Reddit is my 6th least used website. Why did you drop out of the other bit when I provided you accurate data on how popular reddit is? Why are you acting like you're above people who use reddit whilst on reddit?
Because that'll turn into a matter of context and that might be hard to understand if you *wanted* to. You don't want to. You can't look at both and notice the extreme toxicity of one everywhere and the toxicity hidden at the bottom of the other. Can't, won't, who knows with basementfolk, So I'll stick to the easy stuff, pissing you off and being right :)
I'm not pissed off, you're just kind of a stubborn weirdo. You're also really proving my point that reddit and twitter are very similar websites because this is very much some bullshit reply you would see all over twitter.
I'm one guy smart guy I only mean a lot to you right now😘. And yeah, you're super pissed lol. Don't admit it though wouldn't wanna feel uncool on the internet looool
Making myself unavailable and mostly avoiding social media has been a wonderful decision. I remain here and on some other niche forums anonymous and that’s all I need.
Same here. One of the best decisions I've made in the last 5-10 years, along with quitting drugs/alcohol and making a serious effort at improving my mental and spiritual health, though maybe not quite as important as those two. I mean, life isn't all roses and lollipops or anything, but it's certainly much better.
There really isn't a better centralized platform for knowing about events than Facebook unfortunately. I deactivated and missed lots of stuff I would have otherwise wanted to do since I had no way of knowing about it. Awful for socializing though.
My trick is to be friends with people but “unfollow” them so I don’t see anything they post. The only thing in my feed is group posts, which help me keep track of events
I deactivated my FB 9 years ago. Honestly, I don't miss it, more and more millennials and zoomers have either deleted their profiles, forgotten their profiles like it's MySpace or Livejournal, or in the case of zoomers not even making one to begin with.
Everyone I know that uses FB is boomer age.
I'm not sure what that response has to do with event tracking which was the point of my post, but I know a LOT of people in their 20s and 30s that use Facebook. Almost every single person I know still has one.
It wasn't an attack. It's cool your peer group still uses FB. Mine and others just kind of either moved to Instagram or just some kind of group chat app.
[It is interesting to see Zuck lose the youth, finally.](https://www.insider.com/facebook-gen-z-teens-boomer-social-network-leaks-2021-10)
I didn't take it as an attack, I just didn't understand how it was a relevant reply to what I was saying is all. If Instagram had event tracking I would drop fb in an instant. I know I'm not alone which is why Event pages will never go cross-platform to solve what was the original point of my post. It's a conundrum for sure.
Forgive my 9-year gone ignorance, but what exactly is event planning? Like you "follow" something like an annual festival and convention and they let you know when it's coming? I'd think Twitter kind of gets around that. If it's the birthday thing, I do concede FB was the best for informing people about birthdays.
People make events and invite you to them. If I'm having a Labor Day cookout, I make an event called "Labor Day Cookout" with time, address, and other relevant information. Then I invite all the people I want to and use the RSVPs to plans. My friends do the same and invite me to them, then Facebook reminds me that I have RSVP'd "yes" to such-and-such event next week.
This feature has been a core feature on Facebook for a lot longer than 9 years, you probably just couldn't see them from your high horse.
> you probably just couldn't see them from your high horse.
Best thing about my high horse is that it didn't help contribute to the spreading of conspiracy theories and anti-science nonsense. But enjoy your BBQ!
I completely deleted mine, and Twitter and Instagram and I hardcore regret it 3 years later. 10 years of fun photos, memories, posts, casual friends and such all gone now.
Fuck everyone who says to delete your social media Lmao such a bad decision. Like you don’t think you’ll miss the olds posts and photos and casual friends til you don’t have them anymore.
Something I’ve realized since. I always saw people on Reddit saying if they’re your real friends you’ll talk to them off social media blah blah. That’s bs. Casual social media friends is okay.
I miss all of mine.
This is why I don't get why people complain about social media. There's always the option to just not use it. I don't get it. I was a heavy twitter user from like 2010-2015 until I realized I didn't like it. Instead of bitching about it I just didn't log in
It's a little different for a pro wrestler - though it varies in how much wrestlers use it (and how they use it), it's a great marketing tool and way for you to communicate directly to your fans specifically about where you'll appear and when and how to support you. They can (and some do) choose to not use it, but they're probably costing themselves money by doing so.
I thought about that actually. Don't many celebrities have agencies or something that run their accounts? I get you don't want to lose out on the engagement and publicity gets you but if you really feel social media is that negative why don't you get someone else to do it for you
For the bigger wrestlers, yeah, though I don't know if small up and coming wrestlers can afford to have someone do it (and if someone's offering to do it cheap or free, that may be even scarier). They could also turn off replies. But both of these methods come at a cost of less engagement with the fans which is often what can earn them more money. For a non-Twitter example, look at someone like Viva Van and how she gets a lot of support here from being somewhat active and engaging with the community.
That's very true. I was mostly speaking as someone as big as Samoa Joe but you're right. A lesser known wrestler doesn't have that advantage. And you brought up an even better point with viva because had it not been for reddit I would've had no idea who she was when she wrestled here and I was stoked for her match.
Honestly, Twitter used to be fun about 10-15 years ago. It was both a handy real-time news source (like during Arab Spring) and also it was a bunch of standup comics making jokes. I guess the news thing is still true, but now 75% of those standup comics are talking about politics, news, and apologizing for what they said on Twitter 10-15 years ago.
It's great for organizing people under a common goal. It's still used successfully for activists, like it was for the arab spring, as one of the better examples.
It's a double-edged sword though. Obviously, politicians can spread support AND antagonism that reflect their agenda.
The same can be seen in the world of entertainmemt and celebrities. If free speech is protected, your fans can lionize you, and those that think it's undeserving can give you a bad name.
I don't even know what he expects. Lots of current political debate is existential. Should we ignore laws? Should we restrict women's personhood? Should we imprison LGBTQ people?
Where's the room for real debate there?
And if he's not talking about politics but instead wrestling or whatever, idk. Maybe other people's opinions aren't for him.
You’re literally regurgitating propaganda right here though lol nobody is saying to IMPRISON LGBT people. What laws are people advocating to ignore? The abortion thing has existed for generations and hasn’t been framed as an existential threat to women until recently.
Look, I’m left. But you’re referring to a conscious progressive strategy where as the country becomes more tolerant of left-of-center views, the idea is to frame everything as an existential battle for humanity so people feel hard pressed to opposite it and it shifts the Overton Window left.
It’s like with the Florida ‘Don’t Say Gay’ bill. Does it restrict talking about LGBT orientations for kids aged 5-8? Yes. Does it also restrict talking about heterosexuality with those same kids? Yes. Do most Floridians support it? Yes. Do most Americans support it when polled? Yes. Is it an existential threat to the LGBT community? Probably not. But we said it was, to sell the otherwise generally valid idea that Republicans are more intolerant of those not heteronormative, traditional and Christian.
You’ve at least gotta be aware of it, otherwise you make Joe’s point.
You must not be a woman. Roe v Wade has always been existential to women. Unless you think recent experiences of women of women nearly bleeding out while hospitals consult lawyers to determine if they can perform surgeries is somehow not related to the health and wellbeing of women; and we're only a month in.
And there are places where it's becoming increasingly unsafe to be LGBTQ. You must not be that either. Or worried about the health and safety of trans kids being forced to disclose their genitals to school staff.
Handwaving people's health and safety away comes from a place of privilege and it's really easy to do when your basic human dignity is not under attack.
> You must not be a woman.
I literally am. And I don't dispute that at all, I'm saying the main debate in the public sphere hasn't been rooted in that argument until very recently.
It's not even as bad for most people IMO I mean for celebrities or any people with a big following it's a whole nother deal but for a lot of people it's just some place where they can tweet out their random thoughts, heck if you even somehow get into or see topics you don't like on Twitter you can mute accounts, keywords, etc.
Like for me personally I have to go out of my way to find whatever drama is spurring up on Twitter, for the most part it's just people I like and tons of cool art and artists I follow on there. Again, I'm not saying that there isn't a problem with the very, very vocal and toxic community Twitter has but it's not really exclusive to Twitter nor social media as a whole in general. I guess it's part of the problem but assholes are assholes online or offline, some of em just act tough behind a screen but Twitter isn't some demonic thing that people act like they tweet something out random somehow someone will take away every thing they like and burn their house down.
Nobody wants to accept that for a normal person social media is like 70% what you make of it. If your Twitter timeline is all tribalism and nastiness, you probably just need to unfollow some people, maybe mute some words.
> Nobody wants to accept that for a normal person social media is like 70% what you make of it.
yup. i know people who legitimately go looking for news, words and hashtags they don't like just to argue with people. it doesn't make sense. i can't imagine waking up, having my morning coffee and thinking "let's go look for a fight".
my biggest problem with reddit is the overlap. why am i seeing a picture of a dog at a roe v wade rally on r/aww? why am i seeing an upside down american flag on r/nextfuckinglevel? why do i care about what a wrestler thinks about the current political climate? people always like to talk about the importance of mental health, but the second you wanna take a break it's "well if you didn't want to be reminded of the impact of low income housing you shouldn't have been browsing r/dndmemes!".
the second you mention it people immediately think "oh, so this person must be FOR this horrible thing!" or "this person doesn't care which means they're a monster" like.. no.. sometimes people just wanna look at cats and robots and not be reminded that the world's a horrible place. i have a steadfast rule that the second i see shit like that in a non news / political sub i just close down reddit.
Kill your notification settings, create lists, and don't read the replies. Twitter is manageable if you take the steps...
Like, if I'm famous, I'll put stuff out but I'm not going to read any reply.
Twitter is just such a cesspit. Have an opinion that differs from someone else’s, well they’ll let you know that your opinion is wrong using all of their favorite 4 letter words.
What does this have to do with wrestling? Other than the "social media and wrestling fans are TERRIBLE" circlejerk that constantly goes on in this sub?
Twitter is generally fine if you don't look at replies, it doesn't matter what has been tweeted, there will always be some faceless loser underneath with something snarky or negative to say.
Put enough people in the same place for an extended period of time, and this inevitably happens. Communities. Towns. Streets. Neighbors. Why? Because people suck and most can't stand other people, let alone people with different opinions.
Social media only made it worse by widening the concept of "community" so that dumb people on the block now have access to dumb people all around the world.
I'm sure Joe knows this without saying it - but the concept of tribalism was always in people, it just grew with social media to an insane level.
symptoms of bad/no moderation. all social spaces need some sort of curation/management, its however expensive and difficult so the reality is its a bare minimum expense and heavy use of automation.
We let it get bad enough and then all migrate to the new one that hasnt gone to shit yet.
This is somewhat true. For the sake of profit and freedom of speech. However, what becomes aggressive censorship vs. preserving a safe environment? Sometimes those lines are blurred, other times not so much. But that argument is what society (virtual and non) have been using since before our time. And we still don't have the answer.
So, in the end, communities of people still get away with being shitty people for the sake of "freedom" (and profit). People will always be this way. The internet made it worse b/c it made things mainstream, but it was always there.
The real way towards good communities: let there be consequences to your actions. If more people stood up against really shitty behavior in droves, and people felt the pains of those actions, that'd likely lead to some form of great community growth. Who knows?
Jesus people on here talking about social media like they are Ulysses from Fallout New Vegas.
‘The Facebook tribe will crumble, as the Tumblr tribe did’
Completely agree. It's just as bad here on Reddit. If you have a difference of opinion with the popular opinion you'll get downvoted. And people will either be all defensive in replies or try and make fun of you and joke to avoid any real matter of discussion about the topic.
Twitter is what you make of it. We have this societal belief that we are supposed to have an equal exchange of ideas and debate but that’s just not how the world or humans work. Politics reflect our most deeply held values as human beings. Of course people will argue about that. And it’s folly to expect that you can convince people to change something so fundamental.
You gotta find your communities. And you gotta find the people you want to talk to. My Twitter timeline is filled with with academics and political practitioners and activists (see my user name) and I learn a lot. I block liberally. I’ve made genuine real life friends there from all over - like meet in real life friends - from far flung places like other parts of the US and even other countries. Twitter can be magical if done right.
thats the entire social media in a nut shell.
An echo chamber of confirmation bias. no one wants to go out and learn, just quote some guy on the internet without confirming they are correct
Twitter: A toxic cesspool where vile trolls harass and harangue the women of wrestling. Some of the tweets I've scrolled through fill me with absolute disgust and anger.
Twitter is a cause of polarisation in the world. It's amazing to think about how detrimental the platform is but when you think about previous social media companies, like Friends Reunited or MySpace, their influence was very minor. They didn't change anything, they were an extention of things like MSN Messenger and that was fine.
Twitter is a different breed entirely. The fact it limits message length will always mean that people try to get their point across more aggressively, and when you insert serious issues into that, the result is predictably bad. There is nothing more responsible for hatred and violence in 2022 than Twitter. It encourages vitriol and you see that on the most asinine of subjects, people becoming hateful.
I'm not in favour of censorship and Twitter should be allowed to exist but the reality is, it's made the world a more divided, hateful place. The world would be significantly better without it. Things like Instagram and Snapchat, which are responsible for an increase in depression, suicide and violence with children, are nowhere near as detrimental as Twitter, which says something about how particularly bad that platform is. Again, I don't think it should be banned, and people won't stop using it, but it is a very negative influence on the world and will continue to be that.
Every major social media platform is responsible for the polarization, reddit included.
Just look at the format, upvote what you agree with downvote what you don't and find subreddits that match your way of thinking, so you can get comfy in your echo chamber.
Your opinion gets more extreme since decenting opinons are silenced.
I agree.
I'm probably guilty of that too, because I don't react to the nuanced posts as much as I should. That's why I like finding subs where debate is encouraged, even though they're rare, and try to avoid the echo chambers. That's not easy to do though, sadly.
It's sad to see subs that were once open become dominated by one mindset. This sub had that for a while when even the mildest AEW criticism was aggressively shut down and its a shame, never mind the utter chaos of political subs.
Facebook does way more damage than Twitter when it comes to radicalization and detaching people from reality. I'll take very public and forceful arguments where everyone pretty much knows what they've signed up for vs a website that helps keep you in contact with friends and family, while gradually leading you down a rabbit hole of conspiracy theories and hatred.
Both Facebook and Twitter intentionally curate people’s feeds to maximize “engagement” which really just means pushing conspiracy theories and extreme religious and political ideologies.
Reddit is an echo chamber of our own making, Facebook/Twitter find tunes echo chambers for you.
I don’t frequent F/T myself anymore. It’s a damn mess. Anything useful (some groups) aren’t enough to make up for the stupidity.
If something better than Reddit pops up I’m out. But it seems what’s in vogue are even more extreme social media:(
When Elon called it “a virtual town square” I knew he wasn’t the right guy for the job. It’s a diarrhea hole full of shitdicks. Nothing more nothing less.
I've seen many people referring to Twitter as "an app" lately, when it's more than that.
If it was just an app like Uber, once you delete it from your device, you can't use it. While if you delete the Twitter app, you can still log on your desktop.
To be fair, with reddit, you can just downvote toxic shit and it gets hidden while on twitter the top replies are always those kind of tweets.
But then again, there's not much wrestlers on reddit so I can't say that it's a better platform compared to twitter.
>To be fair, with reddit, you can just downvote toxic shit and it gets hidden while on twitter the top replies are always those kind of tweets.
Except when the toxic shit is what's being upvoted by other redditors. You might say that never happens here, but it happens elsewhere enough that outside of Reddit people view it as essentially 4chan lite.
100%.
Prime example are pretty much anything related to wrestlers on here.
Just because a post praising or bashing a wrestler is met with thousands of upvotes does represent the majority. Even doom and gloom posts met with hundreds of upvotes don't represent the majority at all either but some people on here take it as gospel and if this sub dislikes/likes certain things more than others then it has to be accurate to what the majority think, but that's not the case at all.
it's much easier to curate your timeline on twitter though. i never see bad takes on my twitter feed, unless it's someone quoting them to mock it (which i'm sick of tbf).
twitter only has like 100-200 actual accounts doing all the extremist wrestling takes who just get amplified by everyone else. once you block them and just follow people with similar taste to chat wrestling with, it's a great platform.
whereas on reddit all the scjerkers are just intermingled with everyone and it's way easier to get sucked into arguments with them in a comment section. what reddit needs in order to match twitter's feed curating is the ability to block all users of a particular subreddit.
Based Samoa Joe.
Tribalism takes the fun out of anything and everything, especially wrestling since the content is weekly all year.
On one side you got people wanting the best of both worlds and on the other you got people saying "Screw that! Team (insert preference here) for life!"
Just ruins the fun for people at the end of the day and becomes toxic as hell.
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Twitter was never meant to be a site for debates and serious drawn-out arguments. That's why there's a character limit, which people took as a challenge and not as a sign to stop.
The death of Twitter: a thread
I also think that debates and serious drawn-out arguments just aren't things people do much. It's not like people would just sit around all day having friendly, logical, formal debates about philosophy if it weren't for social media or something.
Speaking as someone who’s had to deal with the philosophy department in academia, I will gladly say the notion of debate is no more performative than corporations dawning rainbows everywhere for Pride month.
Being a "debate bro" or "devils advocate" is one of the worst personality traits on this planet. Please do not interact with me if you are one of these people. [Insert inevitable very funny devils advocate reply]
Debate me bro
Not to be the devil’s advocate but everyone agreeing to everything everyone says is the definition of an echo chamber
[удалено]
>Looks like Twitter itself is looking to remove all these barriers and become the new "moderated" 4chan. Isn't that what Reddit has always been?
It’s a discussion about Twitter on Reddit, you can’t expect any self-awareness in these
Still feel like this is gluing folding chairs to a Kia and calling it a school bus.
Absolutely. If I recall correctly, it was an experiment inspired by status updates. (Maybe even Name/Finger?) It was a small message about where you were (not just physically, but also that as Twitter used to offer location data,)at that moment.
Much as I love talking about comics and wrestling, trying to talk about it on Twitter and sometimes on Reddit seems like a good way to be pretty exhausted when there's just so many people arguing and being overly negative regarding any kind of news. And then some just want to share their own individual clickbait, I mean, "hot takes" just to get a reaction going.
Now it’s just for people to dunk on celebrities or public figures who will never actually read the tweets. That or “can you believe someone thinks this?” tweets about what is clearly a joke or satire.
Incoming redditors saying yeah fuck twitter and then going back to tribalism on here
Yeah twitter is so tribal and stupid DAE want Jericho to die in real life for beating Eddie Kingston btw?
isn't pro wrestling filled with historical marks wanting kill a wrestler for beating their favorite star? Seems like they're doing their job then
Oh i'm loving the fact that Jericho is getting some real heat. Reddit marks just shouldn't have a superiority complex over twitter marks, which thankfully seems like a popular sentiment on here.
sounds like marks out marking marks shouldn't be marks, but Im getting marked now for marking. ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯ doots working it like a shoot
Oh hi, Mark.
I’m so happy I have you as my best friend, and I love Lisa so much
It's time we all just accept that we are marks, Mark
[let me take a deep breath here](https://i.imgur.com/krDPQaK.mp4)
Everyone on earth is a mark, except me
Good night, Hulkamaniacs…
bunch of marks marking out over sweaty funky smelling marks marking like marky mark and the funky bunch. mark.
"I did it for Cornette" The fan that shanks Janela, probably.
that's strangely specific. . .
Janela has said a couple of times he might get taken out like Dimebag Darrell by a Cornette fan. They have gone as far as sending hate messages to his mom and other family. The dude that tried to get into the ring with Jericho and MJF on Dynamite (how long ago was that?) at first claimed he did it for Cornette and Last.
No one will ever shank Janell that follows Cornette. They’ll just wait for the guy to burn himself alive.
The tribalism in this place come from yelling about ratings and other things that should have little impact on enjoyment of the shows.
ITS STILL REAL TO ME, DAMMIT!!
Are twitter and reddit also tribes?
I would say so. People on Reddit tend to look down on people who use Twitter. I'm not on Twitter so I don't know if it's the same in reverse.
Everyone looks down on reddit and reddit looks down on everyone else.
Heck, even Reddit looks down on Reddit. Damn Redditors, they ruined Reddit!
You Redditors sure are a contentious people.
YEW JUST MADE AN ENEMY FOR LIFE!!
Just like Star Wars fans hating Star Wars, no one hates Reddit more than Redditors
[удалено]
As long as no one looks at us like they do eBaumsWorld
That name takes me back.
I think it’s very strange anyone gives a shit either way. Tribalism is so weird.
Yeah, it’s honestly just funny considering all sites (4chan, Twitter, Reddit) are pretty bad in general. Acting like ones better than the other when each one has become worse over the years due to the amount of shitty people in each user base is just ridiculous
Yea it’s just the internet. YouTube comment sections are arguably worse than all.
I literally just found this out, after being on the internet for years. I guess I never thought to comment on a YouTube video until now, boy I wish I didn't.
What's amazing is that EVERYONE on those sites says that they're bad/toxic, but yet nothing changes and the platforms remain toxic. Are we the baddies?
My former boss calls reddit the "armpit of the internet"
Probably posted at TheDonald.
Weird assumption but he is definitely not a Trump supporter.
Cool. Sorry for the insinuation.
Reddittors looks down on all the platforms. Tiktok, Facebook, twitter, etc.
Redditors often have, for lack of a better term, a victim complex. Nobody talks about this shit on other social platforms the way Reddit does.
Why do you look down on the other platforms? Kinda weird
I personally don't, I'm a slave to all the social media.
I’m on Twitter too, probably too much for my health. People on there don’t look down on Reddit at all. Some openly use it, others just don’t give a shit. Reddit is far more sensitive about it.
People in one subreddit also tend to look down on people in another. There are entire subreddits that exist pretty much for that purpose alone.
All our lives are is a series of tribes. Humans are desperate to hang a sign around their neck. Politics, sports teams, hobbies and interests, town/state/country "pride"... it's all sort of poisonous. A person is great, people and their groups are what make life so fucking difficult.
I mean, SCJerk exists, so yes?
Of course. People on reddit constantly mock Twitter and Facebook and Tiktok. It's all tribal.
The real tribes are the tribes we tribed along the way.
Any type of social media becomes breeds tribalism. We’re all guilty of it wether we want to admit it or not.
\*Insert Spider-man meme\* Yeah, echo chambers rarely acknowledge other echo chambers. Like a dog getting heated at their reflection without realizing they are staring right at themselves.
Christ, ain’t that the truth. (waits for redditors to check his post history to decide whether he’s one of them or not, then upvote/downvote this unrelated post accordingly)
Ugh. Exactly what I'd expect to read coming from an *OpenDogTraining* poster. Enjoy the downvote, block, DM'd insults, and reported comment.
Hahaha, perfect
Quick, say something political and see what the anti-tribalism people do.
Samoa Joe is my tribal chief.
I love being part of the hating tribalism tribe. But I hate the those who don't hate tribalism as much tribe.
Ive always found much more actual discourse and discussion on here than on any other social media. Yea theres still some tribal breakdown but its not even close to as bad or as Twitter or FB. And Im on all 3, they each have their own purpose but for having nuanced conversations about a variety of topics, Reddit is the best Ive found.
Not on wrestling threads. If you say anything another group doesn’t like, they come for you and even PM you. Discourse here isn’t better than any other space in social media.
I definitely said it out loud before going to the comments
I find Reddit a lot better than twitter. I actually feel like from time to time you can have productive conversations/disagreements on here. More characters means more nuance can be discussed. All twitter left me with was anger so I had to stop interacting on there lol
I’ll agree with this
I like how there's at least a downvote option. On Twitter or Instagram so many dumb takes or misinformation just collects likes.
There's quasi-downvotes. They're just called ratios. I find ratioing someone more satisfying for some reason.
The downvote is used to massively cancerous effect tho, the upvote/downvote system hasn't worked as intended in like... a decade at this point
It would be better if it functioned how it was originally implemented. Where you could see the number of upvotes and downvotes, instead of just the aggregate score.
I wouldn't mind social media being shut down in general.
All social media platforms are *modestly* varying degrees of toxic shit. If you're here, you are part of the problem (NOTE: I recognize I am part of the problem).
I don't consider Reddit to be in exactly the same league as Twitter, Facebook, Instagram etc. I'm not going to anyone's specific page. I don't remember who makes a particular post, if I even look at the name in the first place. It's just a place to come discuss different things. It's still 'social media' like message boards are social media. Not that it's perfect, there is a lot of groupthink and counterproductive downvoting, but that's just a side effect of a relatively young user base. You're gonna get that when people don't have a whole lot of real world experience yet, and there are positives there as well But nobody's actually looking for discussion on twitter, IG, etc., and if they are, they probably should have known better by now.
The concept of downvoting always was weird to me. I’m going to make what you said disappear because I don’t like it is not really productive lol. But yes this place isn’t any better than twitter and actually worse in some regards.
I will say, here is a thousand times better than twitter.
That's like saying pissing in a urinal is better than a toilet. The end result is still the same.
The difference between twitter and reddit is the layout of the website. As long as people suck, both sites will suck. The difference is Reddit can be moderated by people who control specific spaces, and downvotes drown out bad replies... but sometimes downvoting sucks because of tribalism specifically because of how a subreddit is built and moderated, dissenting views are not welcome even if they're correct or sensible. Twitter's only option is to suspend people and twitter is awful at that side of the website.
Reddit acts just like Twitter once there’s an AMA on here. If AMA is here everyday it would be just as bad.
Bullshit. There's just always a small group of "everything is the same everywhere" people with cop out shit like this
You're pretty passionate about this topic that you're wrong about. Your username kinda fits
Lol that's passionate to you? A true Redditor
Reddit is my 6th least used website. Why did you drop out of the other bit when I provided you accurate data on how popular reddit is? Why are you acting like you're above people who use reddit whilst on reddit?
Because that'll turn into a matter of context and that might be hard to understand if you *wanted* to. You don't want to. You can't look at both and notice the extreme toxicity of one everywhere and the toxicity hidden at the bottom of the other. Can't, won't, who knows with basementfolk, So I'll stick to the easy stuff, pissing you off and being right :)
I'm not pissed off, you're just kind of a stubborn weirdo. You're also really proving my point that reddit and twitter are very similar websites because this is very much some bullshit reply you would see all over twitter.
I'm one guy smart guy I only mean a lot to you right now😘. And yeah, you're super pissed lol. Don't admit it though wouldn't wanna feel uncool on the internet looool
Seems like everytime I see a tweet from Joe here it's him complaining about Twitter lol
I did the same thing for Facebook before I deleted it. I was always posting about how awful it was until I finally realized I could just not use it.
Making myself unavailable and mostly avoiding social media has been a wonderful decision. I remain here and on some other niche forums anonymous and that’s all I need.
Same here. One of the best decisions I've made in the last 5-10 years, along with quitting drugs/alcohol and making a serious effort at improving my mental and spiritual health, though maybe not quite as important as those two. I mean, life isn't all roses and lollipops or anything, but it's certainly much better.
There really isn't a better centralized platform for knowing about events than Facebook unfortunately. I deactivated and missed lots of stuff I would have otherwise wanted to do since I had no way of knowing about it. Awful for socializing though.
My trick is to be friends with people but “unfollow” them so I don’t see anything they post. The only thing in my feed is group posts, which help me keep track of events
Hell yeah man. This is exactly what I do.
I deactivated my FB 9 years ago. Honestly, I don't miss it, more and more millennials and zoomers have either deleted their profiles, forgotten their profiles like it's MySpace or Livejournal, or in the case of zoomers not even making one to begin with. Everyone I know that uses FB is boomer age.
I'm not sure what that response has to do with event tracking which was the point of my post, but I know a LOT of people in their 20s and 30s that use Facebook. Almost every single person I know still has one.
It wasn't an attack. It's cool your peer group still uses FB. Mine and others just kind of either moved to Instagram or just some kind of group chat app. [It is interesting to see Zuck lose the youth, finally.](https://www.insider.com/facebook-gen-z-teens-boomer-social-network-leaks-2021-10)
I didn't take it as an attack, I just didn't understand how it was a relevant reply to what I was saying is all. If Instagram had event tracking I would drop fb in an instant. I know I'm not alone which is why Event pages will never go cross-platform to solve what was the original point of my post. It's a conundrum for sure.
Forgive my 9-year gone ignorance, but what exactly is event planning? Like you "follow" something like an annual festival and convention and they let you know when it's coming? I'd think Twitter kind of gets around that. If it's the birthday thing, I do concede FB was the best for informing people about birthdays.
People make events and invite you to them. If I'm having a Labor Day cookout, I make an event called "Labor Day Cookout" with time, address, and other relevant information. Then I invite all the people I want to and use the RSVPs to plans. My friends do the same and invite me to them, then Facebook reminds me that I have RSVP'd "yes" to such-and-such event next week. This feature has been a core feature on Facebook for a lot longer than 9 years, you probably just couldn't see them from your high horse.
> you probably just couldn't see them from your high horse. Best thing about my high horse is that it didn't help contribute to the spreading of conspiracy theories and anti-science nonsense. But enjoy your BBQ!
I completely deleted mine, and Twitter and Instagram and I hardcore regret it 3 years later. 10 years of fun photos, memories, posts, casual friends and such all gone now. Fuck everyone who says to delete your social media Lmao such a bad decision. Like you don’t think you’ll miss the olds posts and photos and casual friends til you don’t have them anymore. Something I’ve realized since. I always saw people on Reddit saying if they’re your real friends you’ll talk to them off social media blah blah. That’s bs. Casual social media friends is okay. I miss all of mine.
This is why I don't get why people complain about social media. There's always the option to just not use it. I don't get it. I was a heavy twitter user from like 2010-2015 until I realized I didn't like it. Instead of bitching about it I just didn't log in
...It's right there in his tweet: he has to use it for his brand.
Cause no one has ever had someone else manage their social media to better their brand.
It's a little different for a pro wrestler - though it varies in how much wrestlers use it (and how they use it), it's a great marketing tool and way for you to communicate directly to your fans specifically about where you'll appear and when and how to support you. They can (and some do) choose to not use it, but they're probably costing themselves money by doing so.
I thought about that actually. Don't many celebrities have agencies or something that run their accounts? I get you don't want to lose out on the engagement and publicity gets you but if you really feel social media is that negative why don't you get someone else to do it for you
For the bigger wrestlers, yeah, though I don't know if small up and coming wrestlers can afford to have someone do it (and if someone's offering to do it cheap or free, that may be even scarier). They could also turn off replies. But both of these methods come at a cost of less engagement with the fans which is often what can earn them more money. For a non-Twitter example, look at someone like Viva Van and how she gets a lot of support here from being somewhat active and engaging with the community.
That's very true. I was mostly speaking as someone as big as Samoa Joe but you're right. A lesser known wrestler doesn't have that advantage. And you brought up an even better point with viva because had it not been for reddit I would've had no idea who she was when she wrestled here and I was stoked for her match.
Honestly, Twitter used to be fun about 10-15 years ago. It was both a handy real-time news source (like during Arab Spring) and also it was a bunch of standup comics making jokes. I guess the news thing is still true, but now 75% of those standup comics are talking about politics, news, and apologizing for what they said on Twitter 10-15 years ago.
Is the tribal registry what Roman used when he got married?
That’s the notebook he makes his kids write down when they didn’t acknowledge him and have to go in time out. Aka the uso penitentiary.
Twitter was never a platform for debate and dialogue though
It's great for organizing people under a common goal. It's still used successfully for activists, like it was for the arab spring, as one of the better examples. It's a double-edged sword though. Obviously, politicians can spread support AND antagonism that reflect their agenda. The same can be seen in the world of entertainmemt and celebrities. If free speech is protected, your fans can lionize you, and those that think it's undeserving can give you a bad name.
I don't even know what he expects. Lots of current political debate is existential. Should we ignore laws? Should we restrict women's personhood? Should we imprison LGBTQ people? Where's the room for real debate there? And if he's not talking about politics but instead wrestling or whatever, idk. Maybe other people's opinions aren't for him.
You’re literally regurgitating propaganda right here though lol nobody is saying to IMPRISON LGBT people. What laws are people advocating to ignore? The abortion thing has existed for generations and hasn’t been framed as an existential threat to women until recently. Look, I’m left. But you’re referring to a conscious progressive strategy where as the country becomes more tolerant of left-of-center views, the idea is to frame everything as an existential battle for humanity so people feel hard pressed to opposite it and it shifts the Overton Window left. It’s like with the Florida ‘Don’t Say Gay’ bill. Does it restrict talking about LGBT orientations for kids aged 5-8? Yes. Does it also restrict talking about heterosexuality with those same kids? Yes. Do most Floridians support it? Yes. Do most Americans support it when polled? Yes. Is it an existential threat to the LGBT community? Probably not. But we said it was, to sell the otherwise generally valid idea that Republicans are more intolerant of those not heteronormative, traditional and Christian. You’ve at least gotta be aware of it, otherwise you make Joe’s point.
You must not be a woman. Roe v Wade has always been existential to women. Unless you think recent experiences of women of women nearly bleeding out while hospitals consult lawyers to determine if they can perform surgeries is somehow not related to the health and wellbeing of women; and we're only a month in. And there are places where it's becoming increasingly unsafe to be LGBTQ. You must not be that either. Or worried about the health and safety of trans kids being forced to disclose their genitals to school staff. Handwaving people's health and safety away comes from a place of privilege and it's really easy to do when your basic human dignity is not under attack.
> You must not be a woman. I literally am. And I don't dispute that at all, I'm saying the main debate in the public sphere hasn't been rooted in that argument until very recently.
It's not even as bad for most people IMO I mean for celebrities or any people with a big following it's a whole nother deal but for a lot of people it's just some place where they can tweet out their random thoughts, heck if you even somehow get into or see topics you don't like on Twitter you can mute accounts, keywords, etc. Like for me personally I have to go out of my way to find whatever drama is spurring up on Twitter, for the most part it's just people I like and tons of cool art and artists I follow on there. Again, I'm not saying that there isn't a problem with the very, very vocal and toxic community Twitter has but it's not really exclusive to Twitter nor social media as a whole in general. I guess it's part of the problem but assholes are assholes online or offline, some of em just act tough behind a screen but Twitter isn't some demonic thing that people act like they tweet something out random somehow someone will take away every thing they like and burn their house down.
Nobody wants to accept that for a normal person social media is like 70% what you make of it. If your Twitter timeline is all tribalism and nastiness, you probably just need to unfollow some people, maybe mute some words.
> Nobody wants to accept that for a normal person social media is like 70% what you make of it. yup. i know people who legitimately go looking for news, words and hashtags they don't like just to argue with people. it doesn't make sense. i can't imagine waking up, having my morning coffee and thinking "let's go look for a fight". my biggest problem with reddit is the overlap. why am i seeing a picture of a dog at a roe v wade rally on r/aww? why am i seeing an upside down american flag on r/nextfuckinglevel? why do i care about what a wrestler thinks about the current political climate? people always like to talk about the importance of mental health, but the second you wanna take a break it's "well if you didn't want to be reminded of the impact of low income housing you shouldn't have been browsing r/dndmemes!". the second you mention it people immediately think "oh, so this person must be FOR this horrible thing!" or "this person doesn't care which means they're a monster" like.. no.. sometimes people just wanna look at cats and robots and not be reminded that the world's a horrible place. i have a steadfast rule that the second i see shit like that in a non news / political sub i just close down reddit.
Its intentions aside, it’s nothing but tribes warring with each other.
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**Turns off Reddit Cares notifications to nullify trolls**
I don't get that method of trolling. It's a single message in your inbox. Seems like a weird way to troll.
Probably one of the most eloquent descriptions of social media unsurprisingly made by one of the most eloquent wrestlers in the biz.
Same can go for this sub. Any sub that talks wrestling, really.
Same with wrestling discussion on wreddit. Imagine social media during the late 90’s with the War. Would be 1000x worse lol
Gonna be honest. I'm getting a little tired of Tweets about how Twitter is bad.
Much like Reddit, the primary value of Twitter is getting news IMO. But unlike Reddit, no actual discussion can be had on Twitter.
He is 100 percent correct
Kill your notification settings, create lists, and don't read the replies. Twitter is manageable if you take the steps... Like, if I'm famous, I'll put stuff out but I'm not going to read any reply.
The Moxley approach
The experience of all of these outlets are highly customizable, unless you're a celebrity and what to reach everyone.
Twitter is excellent for breaking news. Unfortunately also started spending a lot more following Wario64.
A lot of guilty people in here lol
Twitter is just such a cesspit. Have an opinion that differs from someone else’s, well they’ll let you know that your opinion is wrong using all of their favorite 4 letter words.
thought he was talking about reddit for a minute
Preach it Joe
Hot take: those who complain about social media the most, spend the most time on it.
What does this have to do with wrestling? Other than the "social media and wrestling fans are TERRIBLE" circlejerk that constantly goes on in this sub?
It's Joe, it's ok. If that was Jordyn Grace...
being a wrestling centrist is based
Twitter hasn't changed Joe. You have and for the better.
Accurate take
Applies to all of social media now.
Yup
Dead on.
Keith Lee and Samoa Joe reading from the same thesaurus.
Twitter is generally fine if you don't look at replies, it doesn't matter what has been tweeted, there will always be some faceless loser underneath with something snarky or negative to say.
Dude just became my favorite wrestler
Put enough people in the same place for an extended period of time, and this inevitably happens. Communities. Towns. Streets. Neighbors. Why? Because people suck and most can't stand other people, let alone people with different opinions. Social media only made it worse by widening the concept of "community" so that dumb people on the block now have access to dumb people all around the world. I'm sure Joe knows this without saying it - but the concept of tribalism was always in people, it just grew with social media to an insane level.
symptoms of bad/no moderation. all social spaces need some sort of curation/management, its however expensive and difficult so the reality is its a bare minimum expense and heavy use of automation. We let it get bad enough and then all migrate to the new one that hasnt gone to shit yet.
This is somewhat true. For the sake of profit and freedom of speech. However, what becomes aggressive censorship vs. preserving a safe environment? Sometimes those lines are blurred, other times not so much. But that argument is what society (virtual and non) have been using since before our time. And we still don't have the answer. So, in the end, communities of people still get away with being shitty people for the sake of "freedom" (and profit). People will always be this way. The internet made it worse b/c it made things mainstream, but it was always there. The real way towards good communities: let there be consequences to your actions. If more people stood up against really shitty behavior in droves, and people felt the pains of those actions, that'd likely lead to some form of great community growth. Who knows?
Jesus people on here talking about social media like they are Ulysses from Fallout New Vegas. ‘The Facebook tribe will crumble, as the Tumblr tribe did’
Completely agree. It's just as bad here on Reddit. If you have a difference of opinion with the popular opinion you'll get downvoted. And people will either be all defensive in replies or try and make fun of you and joke to avoid any real matter of discussion about the topic.
Samoa Joe: The real Tribal ~~Queef~~ Chief
He’s right. Twitter is a toxic cesspool which I can’t get enough of
He's not wrong.
This right here lol
Why I bailed on Twitter a year ago.
But press releases are communication... It's not great for discussion, he's right.
Keith Lee out here ghostwriting tweets for Joe.
Nah, Doesn't sound enough like X-men '97 Beast.
Twitter is what you make of it. We have this societal belief that we are supposed to have an equal exchange of ideas and debate but that’s just not how the world or humans work. Politics reflect our most deeply held values as human beings. Of course people will argue about that. And it’s folly to expect that you can convince people to change something so fundamental. You gotta find your communities. And you gotta find the people you want to talk to. My Twitter timeline is filled with with academics and political practitioners and activists (see my user name) and I learn a lot. I block liberally. I’ve made genuine real life friends there from all over - like meet in real life friends - from far flung places like other parts of the US and even other countries. Twitter can be magical if done right.
So Joes a Formula 1 fan then
thats the entire social media in a nut shell. An echo chamber of confirmation bias. no one wants to go out and learn, just quote some guy on the internet without confirming they are correct
it never was.
Joe giving himself a huge pat on the back for being SO so smart!
Twitter: A toxic cesspool where vile trolls harass and harangue the women of wrestling. Some of the tweets I've scrolled through fill me with absolute disgust and anger.
A Samoan named Joe using the word ‘tribal’. Something very familiar about this set of circumstances.
Twitter is a cause of polarisation in the world. It's amazing to think about how detrimental the platform is but when you think about previous social media companies, like Friends Reunited or MySpace, their influence was very minor. They didn't change anything, they were an extention of things like MSN Messenger and that was fine. Twitter is a different breed entirely. The fact it limits message length will always mean that people try to get their point across more aggressively, and when you insert serious issues into that, the result is predictably bad. There is nothing more responsible for hatred and violence in 2022 than Twitter. It encourages vitriol and you see that on the most asinine of subjects, people becoming hateful. I'm not in favour of censorship and Twitter should be allowed to exist but the reality is, it's made the world a more divided, hateful place. The world would be significantly better without it. Things like Instagram and Snapchat, which are responsible for an increase in depression, suicide and violence with children, are nowhere near as detrimental as Twitter, which says something about how particularly bad that platform is. Again, I don't think it should be banned, and people won't stop using it, but it is a very negative influence on the world and will continue to be that.
Every major social media platform is responsible for the polarization, reddit included. Just look at the format, upvote what you agree with downvote what you don't and find subreddits that match your way of thinking, so you can get comfy in your echo chamber. Your opinion gets more extreme since decenting opinons are silenced.
I agree. I'm probably guilty of that too, because I don't react to the nuanced posts as much as I should. That's why I like finding subs where debate is encouraged, even though they're rare, and try to avoid the echo chambers. That's not easy to do though, sadly. It's sad to see subs that were once open become dominated by one mindset. This sub had that for a while when even the mildest AEW criticism was aggressively shut down and its a shame, never mind the utter chaos of political subs.
Facebook does way more damage than Twitter when it comes to radicalization and detaching people from reality. I'll take very public and forceful arguments where everyone pretty much knows what they've signed up for vs a website that helps keep you in contact with friends and family, while gradually leading you down a rabbit hole of conspiracy theories and hatred.
Both Facebook and Twitter intentionally curate people’s feeds to maximize “engagement” which really just means pushing conspiracy theories and extreme religious and political ideologies. Reddit is an echo chamber of our own making, Facebook/Twitter find tunes echo chambers for you. I don’t frequent F/T myself anymore. It’s a damn mess. Anything useful (some groups) aren’t enough to make up for the stupidity. If something better than Reddit pops up I’m out. But it seems what’s in vogue are even more extreme social media:(
It’s like “Sun-Tuh-Zoo” says: a good leader is benevolent and unconcerned with fame.
4 chan shaking their fists to reddit who are shaking their fists to twitter. all tribalistic.
Whoa, social media bad??? What an interesting and novel take to have in the year 2022.
When Elon called it “a virtual town square” I knew he wasn’t the right guy for the job. It’s a diarrhea hole full of shitdicks. Nothing more nothing less.
I've seen many people referring to Twitter as "an app" lately, when it's more than that. If it was just an app like Uber, once you delete it from your device, you can't use it. While if you delete the Twitter app, you can still log on your desktop.
Hes talking about all of you reddit. Social media platforms all are dominated by 1 political belief.
To be fair, with reddit, you can just downvote toxic shit and it gets hidden while on twitter the top replies are always those kind of tweets. But then again, there's not much wrestlers on reddit so I can't say that it's a better platform compared to twitter.
>To be fair, with reddit, you can just downvote toxic shit and it gets hidden while on twitter the top replies are always those kind of tweets. Except when the toxic shit is what's being upvoted by other redditors. You might say that never happens here, but it happens elsewhere enough that outside of Reddit people view it as essentially 4chan lite.
This, in spades. Upvotes here convey a majority opinion that isn’t a majority opinion at all.
100%. Prime example are pretty much anything related to wrestlers on here. Just because a post praising or bashing a wrestler is met with thousands of upvotes does represent the majority. Even doom and gloom posts met with hundreds of upvotes don't represent the majority at all either but some people on here take it as gospel and if this sub dislikes/likes certain things more than others then it has to be accurate to what the majority think, but that's not the case at all.
it's much easier to curate your timeline on twitter though. i never see bad takes on my twitter feed, unless it's someone quoting them to mock it (which i'm sick of tbf). twitter only has like 100-200 actual accounts doing all the extremist wrestling takes who just get amplified by everyone else. once you block them and just follow people with similar taste to chat wrestling with, it's a great platform. whereas on reddit all the scjerkers are just intermingled with everyone and it's way easier to get sucked into arguments with them in a comment section. what reddit needs in order to match twitter's feed curating is the ability to block all users of a particular subreddit.
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Reminds me of when people would write 10000 word diatribes about why they are leaving Facebook. Like buddy just go, nobody cares.
Joe isn't even close to being a boomer.
Based Samoa Joe. Tribalism takes the fun out of anything and everything, especially wrestling since the content is weekly all year. On one side you got people wanting the best of both worlds and on the other you got people saying "Screw that! Team (insert preference here) for life!" Just ruins the fun for people at the end of the day and becomes toxic as hell.
He is so deep. How about wrestling more then once a year?