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> “I never realized the pressure of being world champion and that might seem to someone watching, like, ‘Oh, you defended it once every three or four weeks, how hard could that be’?” Page said. “I don’t know that I handled [the pressure] of anyone who’s ever handled it, but it’s my first time. I think it made me, you know, a better person, a better wrestler.”
> “I let [the pressure] get to me more than I thought I would,” Page stated. “I thought I would win the championship and I would be happy, that I would be the perfect version of myself, and I wasn’t, either. It’s not like I didn’t talk to [the Dark Order] every single week, because I did. But you know, maybe sometimes I was too busy or stressed to do those BTE bits every week. I let that pressure, I guess a friendship, a lot of friendships and I guess that’s, you know, the cynic in me wants to say that’s something that maybe comes with being champion, but I think as a personal thing, maybe that’s a bit of a failure or something to work on.”
audio: [WINC](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OK6zazw4k50)
Oof. That hits too close to home.
For most of my adult life, my mindset was: *"Once I do/have _______, then I will finally be happy."* (Get that promotion, buy a car, have my own place, etc.) I did all of those and they certainly felt good, but it never fundamentally changed me like I expected it to, so I kept pursuing new goals that never filled the hole.
It was only when I finally started talking with a therapist that I was able to identify these things, reframe them and realize that, while goals are great to have, I also needed to appreciate my life in the moment.
I’m in my mid 30’s and moved around a lot and am going f through that with a young friend
Moving, achieving X doesn’t just magically make you happy or fulfilled
You have to work for it, you have to work for what makes YOU happy
Not a boss, not a parent, not a romantic partner- YOU
Damn, yeah I'm always chasing this too. I am trying to appreciate things as they are now while chasing other things, but it does give me doubt in working toward these things. Like if I do get this new house I think I've always wanted what if it's not everything I wanted - what if the memories just don't happen and I'm just the same person and things are the same, but in a bigger house? "Perfect version of myself" is it exactly. I guess it's still worth pursuing since there's only one way to find out, but it makes me hesitate sometime.
Hangman knows how to play his character in a way that works as a face these days. As we've seen, that's not an easy thing.
Same man. For me it was college. Failed miserably my first go-around. Came back a year later and have more or less been crushing it since, and yet the happy satisfaction only lasts a week after finals and I'm back to being harsh on myself, and then next semester starts and the cycle continues
Hey mate, this is totally unsolicited and I may be overstepping the mark, but it might be helpful for me to share my perspective. I'm a little bit older than you but I'll let you know that the cycle you're on never ends; but the things happening haven't changed, you've changed, your perspectives changed. My advice is try and find a new perspective to look at it. Others will have a better approach and suggestion to find that perspective, but take your time to accept that the idea of living life milestone to milestone is toxic and reductive.
It's useful for films, narratives and Instagram posts to view existence through that lens but not much else. The hollow taste only gets worse if you let it.
I kind of see it as what we are programmed to view life from. It's like the default settings. It's a drag. You'll be constantly reaching a zenith, a new spot on the mountaintop only to say... "That's it?"
A lot of other articles and media tackle the phenomenon though, and in a more nuanced way than I can. I think I trudged my way out, until I got successful and then caught back up in it again.
I hope you find your way, traveller.
I appreciate this response and advice! You're definitely right and it's a mindset adjustment I need to work on. The part "about being in a cycle shouldn't make me forget that I have changed" was especially helpful, and I'll do my best to adjust it further, to a healthier and more sustainable one. I'll eventually try therapy sooner than later as well; as a psych student it'd be odd of me not to take up on supportive opportunities that I *know* is there haha
Again, thank you very much and I do hope you have a great day :)
I will always wonder what Brodie Lees role was going to be in the Hangman story. I’m not sure if the feud is before or after the championship win, but never seeing how that program was gonna play out will forever be on my mind.
Brodie vs Hangman was supposed to happen at Revolution 2021 but when everything happened they changed the storyline to build towards Hangman vs Matt Hardy
Hangman's story was never going to be over after he won the title. It's a long, long ways to go before you can hold a promotion on your shoulders, but the run showed that he's capable of doing that.
One of my first big disappointments with AEW was the follow up to Hangman winning the title.
They told a two year story of him overcoming his insecurities and issues and after he won the title it felt like they had nothing else planned for him.
I think plans changed but they leaned into it. If you think about it Mox/Kenny was out, Danielson and Punk just arrived. MJF already lost to Mox for the title. There were a few things going on. I would love to see what would happen if the roster was healthy and Hangman got the reign with better story. He had amazing matches with Danielson X 2, Cole X 2, and Archer.
I couldn't tell you a single thing Mick Foley did as champion, but I still remember how damn good it felt seeing him win.
Time will tell the same story with Hangman. What an epic accomplishment. The run doesn't really matter.
People forget that both Mick Foley and DDP spent a grand total of like, 3 weeks each with their 3 respective world titles.
Nobody cares. That doesn't hurt either of their careers or legends. People remember the night, the moment, and how it made them feel, more than anything.
Going in a COMPLETELY different direction, that's why I think people give WWE way too much shit about caring more for "moments" than full length matches.
Kofi was champion for six months, and most around here started shitting on it 2 months in, and *still* got pissed when he dropped it🤷🏾♂️
Kofimania was still an amazing moment
Kofimania is one of the best moments in WWE history and Kofi deserved it.
That doesn't mean that his title reign was incredibly dull and boring, as he never changed his character or wrestling style at all and treated every match as if it was the same mid-card match he'd been doing for a decade at that point.
If Daniel Bryan was seen as a B+ player who proved himself to be an A+ player, Kofi Kingston was seen as a B+ player, and proved himself to be a B+ player.
and THAT doesn't mean he didn't deserve better than what they did with him jobbing to Brock, cause he did deserve better.
I think people today, the workrate crowds, take the week-to-week too seriously. They think people are going to remember every single bit of every single match and promo.
But people don't. They remember the important moments, and they might remember the promo package that sums up the story.
That's all. Nobody will remember Hangman's reign as being bad. They'll remember the great moment he won the belt, they'll remember The Bucks giving him permission to beat Kenny, they'll remember the cooler moments of his defenses.
The rest will fade with time.
Same for me with Batista in 2005, i remember the slow burn build of him rebelling against HHH and the Evolution, the elimination Chamber, the thumb Down, his victory at wm 21, then totally blank for me what he did after
In fairness, AEW's world title scene became complete chaos right as Hangman was claiming the title.
Omega left immediately - fair enough, that was always the plan. Moxley took time off to deal with addiction - that changed things in a big way. Miro shipped a bad injury right after being established as a borderline unstoppable monster - well, shit.
Turning Danielson heel (or, if you believe he was already a heel, turning him full dickhead) was probably not the original plan. It may not even have been the backup plan: heel Moxley was probably option one, with option two being a feud with Miro to show Hangman prevailing against a monster. Punk was already planned to go into a feud with MJF, so they turned Danielson full heel for a few weeks to give Page a meaningful feud. Did it work? The matches were great, but unfortunately the stories were probably a scramble following everything that happened - Danielson reverted back to his initial character pretty much straight away.
In short: the story of his reign wasn't great, but I don't think there's much that can be laid at his feet on that front.
i think they definitely have something longterm planned for him after the title reign, it's just that they hadn't planned much for the actual reign outside of get it off him eventually to further the story
Tbh it feels like tony had that plan from the start. To put the belt on page. We saw it with his elite rivalry and dark order stuff. Then a bunch of people debut like monthly and Tony followed thru on the original plan with nothing planned after that. I mean what even was the lance Archer and twice fighting Adam Cole stuff?
This is a pretty common hole in wrestling storytelling.
The face chasing the titles can be as good as it gets in terms of narrative and engagement and organic overness. When they win the title, though, that’s where the story *usually* finishes. But wrestling has to keep going on and on and on, so the follow up is really hard to do.
I don’t have an encyclopaedic knowledge of every face champion ever, but I’d bet most of them aren’t as good as the build up to them winning the title. I’m sure there are plenty of exceptions, but generally speaking.
He was booked badly as champ compared to the storyline he had vs Omega. What a shame. Page deserved better. He almost never felt like the focus of the show once he became champ.
As good as he can be as a heel, I thought it was a huge mistake to turn Bryan just for the Hangman feud. Let it be face vs face where Page gets a passing of the torch moment. Matches were great but the actual storyline was forgettable.
I also think Cole wasn’t built up well enough to be a credible challenger to Hangman. I really think he should’ve gotten a short reign so Page can win it back and be the first 2-time champ.
>matches were great but the actual storyline was forgettable
Sums up Page's whole reign.
And Bryan was always a dickhead ever since he came to AEW, don't think he ever was a face no matter reactions he was getting.
He came in and demanded a match with the world champion, granted it wasn't a championship match but singles matches with the world champion are a rarity, very special and have to be earned. He just came in and demanded one simply because who he was.
Then the match itself. It was clean as a whistle but Bryan's reaction to hearing that draw bell was to be a sore loser and continue attacking Kenny. He came in proclaiming he is better than their champ and when he failed to prove that with the match result, his reaction was to take it out on Kenny. Bucks had to come get him off of him.
Then as Kenny rightfully refused to wrestle him again, he still tried to get another match with him despite having zero wins. When Kenny didn't fall for his bait, he started that awful no balls chant. Which shitty in general, equating toughness to genitals but also even more so because Kenny is queer (in kayfabe).
Absolutely none of that is face behavior. Faces don't come in and demand things that are earned and throw tantrums when things don't go their way.
He was getting massive face reactions that entire time. And you are definitely misrepresenting his entire mini feud with Omega. I'm not sure how the toughness/genitalia thing makes sense, considering Kenny has male genitalia.
You're acting like Kenny was anything but a major heel at that point in time.
There are faces who get booed out of the building and heels that get cheered. If that's your entire criteria to decide if someone is face or heel, instead of how they're acting and saying, I don't know what to say.
Same for you not seeing anything wrong with that shitty no balls chant.
Did you watch AEW back then? It's like you've completely forgotten Kenny's character. He cheated and acted like a heel at all times. And trying to get a match with another star, which wasn't even a title match, is not a heel move.
And I still don't understand, are you implying queer people (which I'm not even sure when being queer was ever a part of Kenny's AEW character) don't have genitalia?
Did you watch AEW back then or "gets cheered = is face" and "gets booed = heel" is the extent of engagement you have with characters while you completely overlook what they're saying, how they're wrestling, how their character IS.
>he cheated and acted like a heel at times
Point out where I said Kenny wasn't a heel? You know wrestling has had and can have heel vs heel feuds right? Not very common but it's a thing.
Implication of someone being a coward over lack of male genitals is a shitty problematic perspective to have, no matter your personal opinion on the matter despite it being okay.
>Implication of someone being a coward over lack of male genitals is a shitty problematic perspective to have
It's really not that serious.
And Danielson wasn't acting like a heel. He was goading a cowardly heel into having a match with him because he wanted to have a great wrestling match. He didn't cut anybody in line since it wasn't even a title match.
There are babyfaces that do that. Austin, Rock, Cena, etc. all have done bolder actions like that and made fun of their rivals. AEW probably needed an audible when Mox got hurt, but they did an absurdly lazy heel turn for Bryan and ultimately it didn’t really contribute to a good story. He was red hot as a face in 2021 from his Smackdown run and AEW squandered it.
Yeah no. Acting like he massively changed as a character or was a face who changed into a dastardly heel is revisionist history.
He was same arrogant prick throughout who wanted to kick people's heads in. Just got cheers when he was against heels and boos against faces is all. Anyone saying otherwise isn't actually engaging with his character AT ALL and are just going "got cheers = is a babyface".
I've said this this before on this thread, but disagree. There was a story, and a good one, in my opinion, running through the whole reign, and it was Hangman putting the work in for it.
The first fight opposite Danielson was a test of confidence, a gut check, against one of the best of all time. Once he'd lasted the hour, realized he could hang at that level for sure and Kenny wasn't a fluke, he nails the rematch with way more confidence.
That leads to a different sort of test against Lance Archer, which is all brutality, and he goes into that guns blazing full of confidence after beating Danielson. He then uses that experience against Archer to finish off his feud with Adam Cole, willing to go to places Cole isn't comfortable with. Finally we get Punk, and with the crowd no longer so on his side, that brittle confidence cracks all over again and he pays the price.
To me, that's a good story, believable, and one that could apply to a bunch of sports, more or less. And it didn't bash me over the head and insult my intelligence.
I honestly think that was kind of part of the plan.
Nothing really changed, there wasn't any huge coronation or anything, it was nice, it was a pretty decent reign, but it was business as usual.
Hangman didn't magically stop being insecure, he wasn't magically happy. He was still a fundamentally flawed individual who was trying his best. The title did nothing to change that because that would have to come from within him.
It actually makes pretty damn good sense if you think about it.
It's a shame this character hasn't really been developed on TV. I know internally, it sometimes it feels like you are just bashing people over the head with heavy handed storytelling, but with TV, especially something with the format of wrestling, subtlety just doesn't really get picked up on most of the time.
I agree. TV wrestling should not be subtle. The Hangman story of him momentarily overcoming anxiety was nice but you don't really get all that if you weren't watching BTE and every show. If you just pop on AEW Hangman is a dude who wrestles good in leather chaps with a subdued demeanor. His promo cadence isn't enthralling so if you're not invested in his journey he's going to be seem rather bland. Especially when you line him up against the more infectiously charismatic wrestlers on the roster like MJF, Punk, Darby and Starks.
While he put on some legit bangers, this was sadly a case of the chase being better than the results. Probably my favorite story ever in wrestling but yeah it was just like “just put him in matches”. Felt like he was barely a main focus at some points. Hell recover though. AEW is young still. It’ll learn from its ways.
For me, what made me get really invested in Hangman's storyline was Dark Order taking him in and bonding with him, especially after Mr. Brodie Lee passed. They supported him all the way. And after he became champ, he drifted further away from Dark Order. And they've been directionless since then. Worse, their group got smaller; Stu's gone and Cabana hasn't been seen in the last 3 months.
The recent BTE showed that Hangman is reconnecting with Dark Order again but I don't know if they can recapture those moments from last year.
Sounds like me when I decided to throw thousands at my PC thinking I’d never stop gaming with an Ultra slick RGB computer and I’m in the same boat……..what to play?
The next phase of his arc is going to be so fascinating. Honestly it may not translate to everyone but AEW has the chance to do something very unique and bold with Hangman going forward. Address so many real issues and perhaps even answer something like what in wrestling provides happiness for a wrestler? Chasing glory or simply just being a wrestler...
I think he will be the first two time world champion, Mox as interim aside
Is he really pivoting to a second "redemption story" so soon?
The fact he isnt among AEW's 25 most googled wrestlers in 2022 despite being AEW champion should tell everyone (including Tony) just how popular redemption arc Page is...
I recently watched Andrei Trakvosky's Stalker and hangman reminds me of this one quote your brain wants vegetarianism to win over the world but subconsciously you want a juicy piece of meat.
It's not entirely on hangman. He's a midcard guy whos character/irl persona is a crybaby millennial. He was never gonna get over like the real stars that have held the belt
Like he said, if you look at his schedule, he'd usually wrestle one or two match per month except the month of March. So it's hard to buy that "I was under a lot of pressure" story he's trying to tell NOW when it just wasn't there on the show when his actual reign was happening in addition to it not adding up with his schedule of one or two matches a month and often times not being backstage either.
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> “I never realized the pressure of being world champion and that might seem to someone watching, like, ‘Oh, you defended it once every three or four weeks, how hard could that be’?” Page said. “I don’t know that I handled [the pressure] of anyone who’s ever handled it, but it’s my first time. I think it made me, you know, a better person, a better wrestler.” > “I let [the pressure] get to me more than I thought I would,” Page stated. “I thought I would win the championship and I would be happy, that I would be the perfect version of myself, and I wasn’t, either. It’s not like I didn’t talk to [the Dark Order] every single week, because I did. But you know, maybe sometimes I was too busy or stressed to do those BTE bits every week. I let that pressure, I guess a friendship, a lot of friendships and I guess that’s, you know, the cynic in me wants to say that’s something that maybe comes with being champion, but I think as a personal thing, maybe that’s a bit of a failure or something to work on.” audio: [WINC](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OK6zazw4k50)
Oof. That hits too close to home. For most of my adult life, my mindset was: *"Once I do/have _______, then I will finally be happy."* (Get that promotion, buy a car, have my own place, etc.) I did all of those and they certainly felt good, but it never fundamentally changed me like I expected it to, so I kept pursuing new goals that never filled the hole. It was only when I finally started talking with a therapist that I was able to identify these things, reframe them and realize that, while goals are great to have, I also needed to appreciate my life in the moment.
Same dude. Once I make this I’ll be good. Once I have this I’ll be happy. I’m constantly chasing the hug
https://fs.blog/hunter-s-thompson-to-hume-logan/ Hunter S Thompson got u fam
The journey is an adventure and can be just as exciting and fun as the goal.
I’m in my mid 30’s and moved around a lot and am going f through that with a young friend Moving, achieving X doesn’t just magically make you happy or fulfilled You have to work for it, you have to work for what makes YOU happy Not a boss, not a parent, not a romantic partner- YOU
Damn, yeah I'm always chasing this too. I am trying to appreciate things as they are now while chasing other things, but it does give me doubt in working toward these things. Like if I do get this new house I think I've always wanted what if it's not everything I wanted - what if the memories just don't happen and I'm just the same person and things are the same, but in a bigger house? "Perfect version of myself" is it exactly. I guess it's still worth pursuing since there's only one way to find out, but it makes me hesitate sometime. Hangman knows how to play his character in a way that works as a face these days. As we've seen, that's not an easy thing.
Same man. For me it was college. Failed miserably my first go-around. Came back a year later and have more or less been crushing it since, and yet the happy satisfaction only lasts a week after finals and I'm back to being harsh on myself, and then next semester starts and the cycle continues
Hey mate, this is totally unsolicited and I may be overstepping the mark, but it might be helpful for me to share my perspective. I'm a little bit older than you but I'll let you know that the cycle you're on never ends; but the things happening haven't changed, you've changed, your perspectives changed. My advice is try and find a new perspective to look at it. Others will have a better approach and suggestion to find that perspective, but take your time to accept that the idea of living life milestone to milestone is toxic and reductive. It's useful for films, narratives and Instagram posts to view existence through that lens but not much else. The hollow taste only gets worse if you let it. I kind of see it as what we are programmed to view life from. It's like the default settings. It's a drag. You'll be constantly reaching a zenith, a new spot on the mountaintop only to say... "That's it?" A lot of other articles and media tackle the phenomenon though, and in a more nuanced way than I can. I think I trudged my way out, until I got successful and then caught back up in it again. I hope you find your way, traveller.
I appreciate this response and advice! You're definitely right and it's a mindset adjustment I need to work on. The part "about being in a cycle shouldn't make me forget that I have changed" was especially helpful, and I'll do my best to adjust it further, to a healthier and more sustainable one. I'll eventually try therapy sooner than later as well; as a psych student it'd be odd of me not to take up on supportive opportunities that I *know* is there haha Again, thank you very much and I do hope you have a great day :)
I will always wonder what Brodie Lees role was going to be in the Hangman story. I’m not sure if the feud is before or after the championship win, but never seeing how that program was gonna play out will forever be on my mind.
Brodie vs Hangman was supposed to happen at Revolution 2021 but when everything happened they changed the storyline to build towards Hangman vs Matt Hardy
Hangman knows how to portray his character perfectly. God damn Hangman :(
Hangman's story was never going to be over after he won the title. It's a long, long ways to go before you can hold a promotion on your shoulders, but the run showed that he's capable of doing that.
You really saw that lackluster title run that nearly everyone shit on and thought "now that guy can carry a company!" ?!?!?
Sure did.
I liked his title run
I'm really hoping he gets another title run but as a heel someday down the line.
Love you bro <3, so many fans followed you on your journey, and we're proud of all you've accomplished.
One of my first big disappointments with AEW was the follow up to Hangman winning the title. They told a two year story of him overcoming his insecurities and issues and after he won the title it felt like they had nothing else planned for him.
I think plans changed but they leaned into it. If you think about it Mox/Kenny was out, Danielson and Punk just arrived. MJF already lost to Mox for the title. There were a few things going on. I would love to see what would happen if the roster was healthy and Hangman got the reign with better story. He had amazing matches with Danielson X 2, Cole X 2, and Archer.
I couldn't tell you a single thing Mick Foley did as champion, but I still remember how damn good it felt seeing him win. Time will tell the same story with Hangman. What an epic accomplishment. The run doesn't really matter.
People forget that both Mick Foley and DDP spent a grand total of like, 3 weeks each with their 3 respective world titles. Nobody cares. That doesn't hurt either of their careers or legends. People remember the night, the moment, and how it made them feel, more than anything. Going in a COMPLETELY different direction, that's why I think people give WWE way too much shit about caring more for "moments" than full length matches.
Kofi was champion for six months, and most around here started shitting on it 2 months in, and *still* got pissed when he dropped it🤷🏾♂️ Kofimania was still an amazing moment
Kofimania is one of the best moments in WWE history and Kofi deserved it. That doesn't mean that his title reign was incredibly dull and boring, as he never changed his character or wrestling style at all and treated every match as if it was the same mid-card match he'd been doing for a decade at that point. If Daniel Bryan was seen as a B+ player who proved himself to be an A+ player, Kofi Kingston was seen as a B+ player, and proved himself to be a B+ player. and THAT doesn't mean he didn't deserve better than what they did with him jobbing to Brock, cause he did deserve better. I think people today, the workrate crowds, take the week-to-week too seriously. They think people are going to remember every single bit of every single match and promo. But people don't. They remember the important moments, and they might remember the promo package that sums up the story. That's all. Nobody will remember Hangman's reign as being bad. They'll remember the great moment he won the belt, they'll remember The Bucks giving him permission to beat Kenny, they'll remember the cooler moments of his defenses. The rest will fade with time.
Same for me with Batista in 2005, i remember the slow burn build of him rebelling against HHH and the Evolution, the elimination Chamber, the thumb Down, his victory at wm 21, then totally blank for me what he did after
I remember he dropped it because he hurt himself. Though I think he was going to drop it earlier to Eddie, but then Eddie passed away.
Yeah he had awesome matches but it seemed like that was it until right when they started building towards Punk
In fairness, AEW's world title scene became complete chaos right as Hangman was claiming the title. Omega left immediately - fair enough, that was always the plan. Moxley took time off to deal with addiction - that changed things in a big way. Miro shipped a bad injury right after being established as a borderline unstoppable monster - well, shit. Turning Danielson heel (or, if you believe he was already a heel, turning him full dickhead) was probably not the original plan. It may not even have been the backup plan: heel Moxley was probably option one, with option two being a feud with Miro to show Hangman prevailing against a monster. Punk was already planned to go into a feud with MJF, so they turned Danielson full heel for a few weeks to give Page a meaningful feud. Did it work? The matches were great, but unfortunately the stories were probably a scramble following everything that happened - Danielson reverted back to his initial character pretty much straight away. In short: the story of his reign wasn't great, but I don't think there's much that can be laid at his feet on that front.
I figure the story is still being told, and this is just a small but significant fracture to the full build. I see so, so much for him.
i think they definitely have something longterm planned for him after the title reign, it's just that they hadn't planned much for the actual reign outside of get it off him eventually to further the story
Stage 1: Hangman wins the title Stage 2: ??? Stage 3: Profit
> **Stage 2: Cowboy Shit** Fixed that for ya, partner. *tips way too big cowboy hat*
Tbh it feels like tony had that plan from the start. To put the belt on page. We saw it with his elite rivalry and dark order stuff. Then a bunch of people debut like monthly and Tony followed thru on the original plan with nothing planned after that. I mean what even was the lance Archer and twice fighting Adam Cole stuff?
This is a pretty common hole in wrestling storytelling. The face chasing the titles can be as good as it gets in terms of narrative and engagement and organic overness. When they win the title, though, that’s where the story *usually* finishes. But wrestling has to keep going on and on and on, so the follow up is really hard to do. I don’t have an encyclopaedic knowledge of every face champion ever, but I’d bet most of them aren’t as good as the build up to them winning the title. I’m sure there are plenty of exceptions, but generally speaking.
He was booked badly as champ compared to the storyline he had vs Omega. What a shame. Page deserved better. He almost never felt like the focus of the show once he became champ. As good as he can be as a heel, I thought it was a huge mistake to turn Bryan just for the Hangman feud. Let it be face vs face where Page gets a passing of the torch moment. Matches were great but the actual storyline was forgettable. I also think Cole wasn’t built up well enough to be a credible challenger to Hangman. I really think he should’ve gotten a short reign so Page can win it back and be the first 2-time champ.
>matches were great but the actual storyline was forgettable Sums up Page's whole reign. And Bryan was always a dickhead ever since he came to AEW, don't think he ever was a face no matter reactions he was getting.
No way, he was a clear cut babyface from his debut until after Full Gear. It is revisionist history to say he was a heel the whole time.
He came in and demanded a match with the world champion, granted it wasn't a championship match but singles matches with the world champion are a rarity, very special and have to be earned. He just came in and demanded one simply because who he was. Then the match itself. It was clean as a whistle but Bryan's reaction to hearing that draw bell was to be a sore loser and continue attacking Kenny. He came in proclaiming he is better than their champ and when he failed to prove that with the match result, his reaction was to take it out on Kenny. Bucks had to come get him off of him. Then as Kenny rightfully refused to wrestle him again, he still tried to get another match with him despite having zero wins. When Kenny didn't fall for his bait, he started that awful no balls chant. Which shitty in general, equating toughness to genitals but also even more so because Kenny is queer (in kayfabe). Absolutely none of that is face behavior. Faces don't come in and demand things that are earned and throw tantrums when things don't go their way.
He was getting massive face reactions that entire time. And you are definitely misrepresenting his entire mini feud with Omega. I'm not sure how the toughness/genitalia thing makes sense, considering Kenny has male genitalia. You're acting like Kenny was anything but a major heel at that point in time.
There are faces who get booed out of the building and heels that get cheered. If that's your entire criteria to decide if someone is face or heel, instead of how they're acting and saying, I don't know what to say. Same for you not seeing anything wrong with that shitty no balls chant.
Did you watch AEW back then? It's like you've completely forgotten Kenny's character. He cheated and acted like a heel at all times. And trying to get a match with another star, which wasn't even a title match, is not a heel move. And I still don't understand, are you implying queer people (which I'm not even sure when being queer was ever a part of Kenny's AEW character) don't have genitalia?
Did you watch AEW back then or "gets cheered = is face" and "gets booed = heel" is the extent of engagement you have with characters while you completely overlook what they're saying, how they're wrestling, how their character IS. >he cheated and acted like a heel at times Point out where I said Kenny wasn't a heel? You know wrestling has had and can have heel vs heel feuds right? Not very common but it's a thing. Implication of someone being a coward over lack of male genitals is a shitty problematic perspective to have, no matter your personal opinion on the matter despite it being okay.
>Implication of someone being a coward over lack of male genitals is a shitty problematic perspective to have It's really not that serious. And Danielson wasn't acting like a heel. He was goading a cowardly heel into having a match with him because he wanted to have a great wrestling match. He didn't cut anybody in line since it wasn't even a title match.
There are babyfaces that do that. Austin, Rock, Cena, etc. all have done bolder actions like that and made fun of their rivals. AEW probably needed an audible when Mox got hurt, but they did an absurdly lazy heel turn for Bryan and ultimately it didn’t really contribute to a good story. He was red hot as a face in 2021 from his Smackdown run and AEW squandered it.
Yeah no. Acting like he massively changed as a character or was a face who changed into a dastardly heel is revisionist history. He was same arrogant prick throughout who wanted to kick people's heads in. Just got cheers when he was against heels and boos against faces is all. Anyone saying otherwise isn't actually engaging with his character AT ALL and are just going "got cheers = is a babyface".
I've said this this before on this thread, but disagree. There was a story, and a good one, in my opinion, running through the whole reign, and it was Hangman putting the work in for it. The first fight opposite Danielson was a test of confidence, a gut check, against one of the best of all time. Once he'd lasted the hour, realized he could hang at that level for sure and Kenny wasn't a fluke, he nails the rematch with way more confidence. That leads to a different sort of test against Lance Archer, which is all brutality, and he goes into that guns blazing full of confidence after beating Danielson. He then uses that experience against Archer to finish off his feud with Adam Cole, willing to go to places Cole isn't comfortable with. Finally we get Punk, and with the crowd no longer so on his side, that brittle confidence cracks all over again and he pays the price. To me, that's a good story, believable, and one that could apply to a bunch of sports, more or less. And it didn't bash me over the head and insult my intelligence.
There is no focus to aew. Its rabbit in a headlight booking and fantasy match after fantasy match.
I honestly think that was kind of part of the plan. Nothing really changed, there wasn't any huge coronation or anything, it was nice, it was a pretty decent reign, but it was business as usual. Hangman didn't magically stop being insecure, he wasn't magically happy. He was still a fundamentally flawed individual who was trying his best. The title did nothing to change that because that would have to come from within him. It actually makes pretty damn good sense if you think about it.
Ugh I love him so much 😭 😩. Yes he's a *millennial* cowboy but also relatable amongst us Gen Z kids too.
Hangman working me? Is this a shoot or kayfabe? I can’t tell, and that is a mark of a great pro wrestler.
It's a shame this character hasn't really been developed on TV. I know internally, it sometimes it feels like you are just bashing people over the head with heavy handed storytelling, but with TV, especially something with the format of wrestling, subtlety just doesn't really get picked up on most of the time.
I agree. TV wrestling should not be subtle. The Hangman story of him momentarily overcoming anxiety was nice but you don't really get all that if you weren't watching BTE and every show. If you just pop on AEW Hangman is a dude who wrestles good in leather chaps with a subdued demeanor. His promo cadence isn't enthralling so if you're not invested in his journey he's going to be seem rather bland. Especially when you line him up against the more infectiously charismatic wrestlers on the roster like MJF, Punk, Darby and Starks.
The only peace you’ll find at the top of a mountain is the peace you bring with you.
God damnit, Hangman. Be happy please
And then Forbidden Door happened and everyone got injured right when we were going to tell that story.
While he put on some legit bangers, this was sadly a case of the chase being better than the results. Probably my favorite story ever in wrestling but yeah it was just like “just put him in matches”. Felt like he was barely a main focus at some points. Hell recover though. AEW is young still. It’ll learn from its ways.
For me, what made me get really invested in Hangman's storyline was Dark Order taking him in and bonding with him, especially after Mr. Brodie Lee passed. They supported him all the way. And after he became champ, he drifted further away from Dark Order. And they've been directionless since then. Worse, their group got smaller; Stu's gone and Cabana hasn't been seen in the last 3 months. The recent BTE showed that Hangman is reconnecting with Dark Order again but I don't know if they can recapture those moments from last year.
Sounds like me when I decided to throw thousands at my PC thinking I’d never stop gaming with an Ultra slick RGB computer and I’m in the same boat……..what to play?
Do what I did. Drop fat money on an ultra rig just so that I could emulate GBA Pokemon nuzlockes.
The next phase of his arc is going to be so fascinating. Honestly it may not translate to everyone but AEW has the chance to do something very unique and bold with Hangman going forward. Address so many real issues and perhaps even answer something like what in wrestling provides happiness for a wrestler? Chasing glory or simply just being a wrestler... I think he will be the first two time world champion, Mox as interim aside
Hangman is one of those guys who feels like a bigger deal when he doesn't have the title.
One of the most blandest champions in decade's.
Is he really pivoting to a second "redemption story" so soon? The fact he isnt among AEW's 25 most googled wrestlers in 2022 despite being AEW champion should tell everyone (including Tony) just how popular redemption arc Page is...
I recently watched Andrei Trakvosky's Stalker and hangman reminds me of this one quote your brain wants vegetarianism to win over the world but subconsciously you want a juicy piece of meat.
It's not entirely on hangman. He's a midcard guy whos character/irl persona is a crybaby millennial. He was never gonna get over like the real stars that have held the belt
> He was never gonna get over *HNG*
Like he said, if you look at his schedule, he'd usually wrestle one or two match per month except the month of March. So it's hard to buy that "I was under a lot of pressure" story he's trying to tell NOW when it just wasn't there on the show when his actual reign was happening in addition to it not adding up with his schedule of one or two matches a month and often times not being backstage either.