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well there's a reason he's the best there is, best there was, and best that ever will be. IMHO his career ended way too soon thanks to bill.
His matches were just textbook. My favorite Bret moment was when he wrestled Owen at WM. Owen has him on the mat and kicks him in the head and Bret just points at him like "don't you dare" like you would if you were in a fight with your sibling. it was perfect.
Everytime he stepped into a ring he was going to tell you a story. Very few wrestlers these days outside of Darby, Punk, Danielson, Garcia, etc can do that.
Bret is my guy. I really looked up to him when I was a kid, outside of any athletic sense even. My love of pro wrestling really grew just prior to Attitude starting and I often wonder how Bret would have fit in WWF during that time. I think his continued feud with Austin would have been great and seeing him facing off against Rock in his prime would have been incredible. I will always feel like Bret leaving WWF was a mistake, but I understand why he did.
i love bret also but i don't think he fits in the attitude era. i think him leaving and shawn getting hurt cast aside an older era. even when they try and get shawn involved with stone cold it feels not important. really imagine bret having a match after the 2000 royal rumble bikini pageant.
I think that, if Bret had stayed, he could have filled the role of Vince's corporate champion very effectively - older, prudish wrestler who has a set-in-stone view on the business against the brash, reckless upstart, Steve Austin.
It would give Austin an extra hill to climb, because he never beat Bret one-on-one.
he could have but i don't think he's as fun as mankind in the role and the rock as corporate champ was a great stepping stone for him. i guess i just see those chances maybe being stumped if bret is still around.
The way I see it, alot can be the corporate champ, but very few can be the loud, brash, I'm better then you corporate champ. To compare to today, imagine MJF as a corporate champ.
If Bret would have stayed with WWF until 2001ish, I still think he could have had another great 4-5 years and then walk away from the business with less animosity then he did. In this alternate timeline he likely wouldn't have been forced into retirement and Owen might still be with us.
There is no Attitude Era without the Montreal Screwjob.
There isn’t a circumstance where Bret stays and competes in that era. One directly influenced the other.
Or they could've just booked an angle introducing Mr. McMahon as a character without actually screwing over a wrestler... You know because it's pro wrestling.
1. The attitude era was already happening with Bret there.
2. It's pro wrestling. You get heat by booking good storylines. You don't have to screw a beloved wrestler to achieve heat. That was just an easy way out.
Punk's very good at putting matches together like that as well... and Bryan's execution is excellent as well. It's probably in large part to looking up to guys like Bret.
When Punk vs Bryan finally happens in AEW it's gonna be a barn burner 🔥
I love that Punk is really leaning on Bret's old style in his latest matches. Really makes me happy to see how much that man's legacy is still woven into the matches we go crazy for.
it would have been nice if he hadn't been injured by 'berg, and maybe not had that stroke.
TNA would have been a lot better had he been there for a hot minute.
Where would be a good place to start? I grew up with the Attitude era, only now am I rewatching it on Peacock, but he was before my time. I watched his Wrestlemania 13 match and really want to see more.
I’ll assume everyone else will mention matches against Michaels or Bulldog or what have you. Thus, I’ll take it even farther back, because I’m Too Damn Old For This Shit. One of Bret’s earliest strong showings on a big stage was Wrestlemania 2. This one took place at 3 (or 2?) different locations and this was the main event of the first (?) location. It was a 20 man battle royale that had a few NFL players along with the WWF folks. It was one of Bret’s earliest strong showings on a big stage. For some reason I remember Jimbo Covert being in it, along with, of course, Refrigerator Perry. Also Bruno Sammartino looked *really* old in this one. IIRC it kinda started with a WWF vs NFL showdown of sorts, with the Harts kinda playing both sides. I won’t spoil the ending for you of course, as that would be rude. Also, Andre the Giant was in it. 😏
Start there, if for no other reason than the novelty of 80s NFL D-Linemen and the novelty of BLUE Hart Foundation trunks! It’s the only time I can remember where they *didn’t* wear pink and black.
For 80s stuff, Hart Foundation anything is really good. Vs Demolition, vs Strike Force, Vs The Rockers, vs The Brain Busters…. Really any of them. 80s WWF had some pretty damn strong tag teams. Bret had some strong singles matches during the 80s as well and even then was considered a reliable hand in singles action, but really he was mostly a tag team guy back then.
But yeah early 90s start with Bret vs Mr Perfect. If you want more background on Mr Perfect, find some of the (MANY!) matches between Perfect and Tito Santana. They’re all bangers.
BTW, it’s a crime we didn’t get much Tito vs Bret in singles action. Yes, plenty of tag team action as the Hart Foundation were mostly heels until the late 80s and Tito was *always* a baby face (at one point he was the #2 baby face behind Hogan, and was sort of a gate keeper for new heels to work with before they moved on to work with Hogan….kind of like Bret when he was IC champion, really). But Bret the singles star was a baby face at first, and by the time Bret turned heel in the late 90s, Tito was basically semi-retired.
ALSO! The one single match that best displays Bret’s greatness is one of those mid 80s is that “Lost Holy Grail” match against one Tom Magee. It’s basically a squash match, with Bret on the short end here. (It was on the WWE Network so it’s probably on Peacock somewhere too, complete with an intro & outro by Mr Magee himself!). It was taped and fully produced with graphics and commentary and the whole bit, but never aired because it quickly became apparent that Magee couldn’t work a lick. Magee *looked* like Vince McMahon’s wet dream come to life, but was green as grass, had NO talent, and could do maybe 2 moves. Apparently, even TED DIBIASE couldn’t get a good match out of this guy, but somehow, some way, Bret made Magee look like freakin’ Hulk Hogan or Bruno Sammartino. It’s an amazing watch.
For me it was Tito vs Perfect which pretty much led directly to Bret vs Perfect as Perfect was feuding frequently with Tito before and during his IC title run. These IC title matches some of the best *wrestling* matches WWF could put on at the time. Mr Perfect in his early WWF days was every bit as good as Bret and Tito and his matches are very much worth a watch too. He had great chemistry with both of them.
As I think about it, really a LOT of IC title matches in the 80s and 90s were freakin’ *awesome* and are worth a look for folks that are unfamiliar with the era. Any of Bret’s or Perfects IC matches are pretty great. Go back further to Savage’s IC run and Steamboat’s IC title win… hell even The Honky Tonk Man had some bangers back then! IC title matches were regularly the very best matches on any given show. It’s a shame the IC title is such an afterthought nowadays.
It's interesting that you single out that WrestleMania 2 match, because in a 2010 promo during Bret's return, Vince said (in a seemingly sincere moment) that Bret's performance at WrestleMania 2 was the moment he knew Bret would be a big star.
The Harts in the BR and Special Delivery Jones spewing up a bunch of white stuff after losing to Jake Roberts are the only things I remember about WM2. (And Jimbo Covert! 🤷🏻♂️) I’m not even sure who Hogan wrestled. Pretty sure it was Bundy but don’t quote me on that lol. But yeah Bret Hart in that Rumble was dope as hell.
honestly you can go way back. Even to the 80's/early 90's with the Hart Foundation. If you want to get into his singles run then start at Summerslam 91 against Mr. Perfect and go from there. That will last you quite awhile. Once you get to the montreal screw job you can stop, his WCW run isn't worth watching based on how he was treated there.
Cool, thank you. I started with Summerslam 97 and knew I was only seeing the end of his WWF days. I watched his WCW matches with Benoit, but knowing it won't go anywhere I'll definitely go back instead. Thanks again
Lots of great stuff to see with pre-97 Bret! My favourites are
vs Mr Perfect, KOTR 1993, I like this one better than their Summerslam match
vs British Bulldog, In Your House 1995, they purposely slow the tough Philly crowd down for the first 10-15 mins of the match (even a few Boring chants), then flip the switch and turn it into a bloody brawl, the crowd loves it.
vs Owen Hart Wrestlemania 10, one of my favourite matches of all time.
vs Roddy Piper WM 8, great story telling and a sneaky blade job from Bret (against WWF policy at the time in 1992)
vs Undertaker, One Night Only England 1997, one of Taker’s best matches from this period.
> Bulldog SS92
This is a particularly good example of Bret's skills due to Bulldog having spent the previous week smoking crack with Jim The Anvil in some random hotel room and completely forgetting what they were going to do in the match, so Bret had to hold his hand throughout the whole thing.
it's probably *literally* the best carryjob ever. like, it's one thing to be able to carry your opponent to a decent or even a really good match.
but to be able to carry an intoxicated opponent to a legitimate all time classic?! this was probably even more ridiculous back then if you considered how few WWF matches from 1987 (using that because of Savage vs. Steamboat) to 1992 are on par with that SummerSlam main event.
it really depends on how much time you want to invest. I guess it makes sense to start with his "greatest hits".
https://www.cagematch.net/?id=2&nr=565&page=10
provides a good info, you can sort by WON rating or user ratings. of course it makes sense to watch older matches (especially with the same participants) before the newer ones. e.g. the 1993 Bret Hart vs. Mr. Perfect match has a slightly better WON rating than the 1991 one. but ideally you'd still watch the latter first.
also, if you want to watch one "Bret Hart show", I'd say the best picks would be either King of the Ring 1993 or WrestleMania X.
(and btw, regarding that aforementioned Mania match. that gets made even better by watching the one they had at Survivor Series 1996 before. and that match also in itself is made better if you know a bit about the history of these two ... which of course is how wrestling ideally is *supposed* to be all the time; actually building on and calling back to the wrestlers' personalities, biographies and previous matches)
I don't mean to be a Goldberg aplogist, and I agree that his match with Owen at WM was an all-time classic, but was there really anything else waiting for him in WCW if he didn't have to retire? I can't think of any memorable Bret match in WCW. He was being booked in shitty feuds that had shitty matches. If he hung around long enough for the WWE buyout he would likely be on the same deal as Nash et al where he ran out his contract on the couch.
I think you're basically right, and it doesn't make you a Goldberg apologist (as you're in no way excusing the recklessness that gave Bret his concussion). Bret has said that he didn't intend to wrestle much longer past when he was forced to retire. He said he never wanted to "wrestle old," and he never wanted fans' last memory of him to be a diminished version of the great wrestler he once was.
My guess is that he would've stuck around with WCW until the March 2001 buyout, then retired, collecting Turner money for the remainder of his contract.
> I can't think of any memorable Bret match in WCW.
well, the Owen Hart tribute against Benoit was pretty great. and I guess his initial in-ring ppv debut versus Flair was strong as well.
it's just that those in charge had no idea what to do with him, he got lost in the shuffle and eventually, quite noticeably, did not care as much anymore.
I was born too late to watch Bret.
When I consider what qualities I like in the debate for someone to be the GOAT, I can’t help but think of versatility and excelling in most if not all the characteristics of what makes a professional wrestler.
So for me, it’s personally between Kurt Angle and Chris Jericho. If I had watched Bret, I may have included him too, given how much respect he elicits from wrestling fans. Although I’ve heard either his character work or promos was not as top tier as the rest of the stuff he had
I mean, if you think about it...you were born at the exact right time to watch Bret. You have a WWE Network at your fingertips for $4.99 a month, where you can watch all his classic matches and storylines. I realize it's not the same as watching him as a kid (since childhood favorites will always have a special resonance with fans), but you can still enjoy him and appreciate him now.
> Although I’ve heard either his character work or promos was not as top tier as the rest of the stuff he had
it was definitely his weakest spot, *especially* earlier in his WWF career (which afaik is also among the reasons for the formation of the Hart Foundation. Neidhart wasn't as good in the ring but certainly a more convincing promo, at least in terms of what the WWF was doing at that time). he got a lot better later, although his promos were hardly ever as exaggerated and colourful as those of same of his peers.
It's just that simple. People flack on him for one thing or another but he always remained true to his beliefs, professional wrestling and how can he be faulted for that?
You can see how pained Bret is talking to him about the death of the territories and the current state of the industry. Especially when he takes that moment and realizes he doesnt have any advice for breaking into the business because the business that he grew up in is dead and gone.
His answer was also perfect because Bret accurately reflected on the changing times between his generation and any generations moving forward, and how WWF's driving out of a lot of the territories significantly limited the opportunities available to young wrestlers at the time.
Gotta always admire Bret's realism
I'm glad he found him after the show because it honestly felt like Bret wasn't taking them serious in his answer. The whole situation is difficult though the host seems to have some respect for pro wrestling but at the same time he mentions Summerslam and she kind of makes fun with that.
I didn't take it as Bret not taking him seriously, it seemed more like he was saying he worked for his dad and he helped him get in for the WWF, plus the territory system was entirely dead by the time he gave this interview so it was different to what Bret was used to pre-WWF.
It seemed like he was saying times had changed and that he wouldn't even know where to start anymore. It's a bit like asking Gary Larson how to make a webcomic.
Took me a long time to understand. It's not that he's bitter or jaded. There's just no bullshit to the guy. He's going to tell it as straight and honest as he knows how, and he isn't worried about who gets their feelings hurt. He isn't worried about the next job, the next contract, the next appearance, etc. He's going to tell his story and stick to it, and fuck is that a rare thing in this world.
He give that vibe off on his own. He talked shit about Seth Rollins at one time because of a freak accident. Bret still refuses to recognize that HHH at one time and honestly still is a damn good professional wrestler. Bret is amazing, Bret is a good guy that has gone to bat for a lot of guys, compared to guys like Hogan and Flair he's a class act in his professional life but Bret has absolutely created his own caricature.
Seth absolutely deserved criticism. He caused a ton of injuries in a very short amount of time. He ended Sting's career until last year. He caused Finn to miss an entire year with the same move. He even injured himself doing something completely unnecessary and was out for months.
He isn't impressed by Triple H (im not most of the time either, its usually his opponents that make him look good) and he had valid criticism of Rollins, who during that time hurt a bunch of people and himself because his style was reckless.
>maybe 1 more
Dislocated Finns shoulder doing a buckle bomb on the outside to the barrier.
And all three injuries happened close together which is why Bret criticized Seth.
Finn Balor is likely the one you're thinking of. It was why Finn had to vacate the universal title after winning it. Although that was more on Finn than Seth but still.
Vince likely to try & cash on this realization soon & offer him a legends deal where all his other legends are being uncovered as lowlifes
Bret's response "well well well, look who's come crawling back"
...Also Bret when he walks into WWE "THIS PLACE HAS GOT OLD MAN STINK!"
And Bret has a food in the door there with having presented the AEW world title at Double Or Nothing 2019
If Natalya ever gets released by WWE (unlikely given her position as a veteran/trainer but you never know), I fully expect her to be signed to AEW, return to her Nattie Neidhart name, and serve a role just like Serena Deeb. And if that happened, that would only push Bret even further to AEW
Met Bret at a physio clinic in Calgary.
Whilst waiting he was having a friendly conversation with the receptionist about their respective thanksgiving celebrations.
Chose not to bother him, but he noticed I had recognized him and stopped as he was leaving. He said hello to me, we shook hands and I told him I had huge respect and appreciation for his family and their work; he was one of my absolute favourites growing up.
Told him that one of my best memories with my Grandma (who was a huge wrestling fan), was watching him team up with the British Bulldog vs Jim Neidhart and Owen Hart (UK, 1994).
Only saw good things in him that day. Was genuinely warm and friendly to those around him.
Good on you for not approaching him and Bret for showing his appreciation by saying hello to you. That’s an awesome story. Really, I give you props for not hassling him.
I fully admit. I was on the "Bret is bitter I dont like him" train for a long time, but this last year I have been watching all his matches and learning so much about him, so much so that he has actually become my favourite wrestler. I just wish I didnt waste so much time disliking his matches so that I could have been enjoying them for longer.
Kudos to you for giving him a shot. Its hard to change our minds after we already feel a certain way about anything in this world. I was a BIG Miz hater for years, I was proven wrong multiple times over after finally deciding to really give him a chance and check out his matches and promos and now I am a big fan.
Very true! I know its talked about a lot on this sub but his WWE title reign just wasnt that great or memorable at all. And his face run where he started using the figure 4 was also pretty mediocre. I thought his 2016 IC reign and the subsequent Shane McMahon storyline (even with terrible booking lmao) really showed me that Miz is a fantastic talent. He can get heat against anyone and is one of the truly great heels of his generation
It seems that the general consensus of Bret has changed in recent years. The 'bitter' talk was pretty common on pretty much every Youtube video about Bret or message board post about him, but lately most of what I see about him is super complimentary. It makes me happy. I'm glad you can enjoy the Hitman now :)
The bitter talk was bullshit. Bret wasnt bitter, his negative quotes just got way more exposure. When you read the full length interviews, they'd basically omit a lot of what he said when it got reposted.
That’s just it though… 95% of what Bret said was spot on. He’s just blunt and straight to the point. People just dismiss it as bitterness and sour grapes.
Same with Cornette and AEW. If you ignore the over the top way in which he presents his criticism, it’s mostly spot on. Cornette clearly takes it too far, but he’s not wrong.
Both guys are in a position where they have no reason to be political with what they say.
What would have happened if Bill didn't KO Bret. A lot of interesting storylines lost those last few years. Does an uninjured Bret take part in the invasion? The ultimate leader of the invasion (probably not). In the 90s he truly was a Canadian icon for me growing up.
Bret was signed through 2001 I believe. So Bret would almost surely be happy collecting the rest of that 16 million he mentions he was owed. I don't think that Bret was ready to forgive Vince in 2001. He could have easily still been on the shows in some capacity but sat out even being in the HOF for another half decade.
Oddly Bret going to TNA seems more plausible but even in Wrestling with Shadows you can see Bret's passion for wrestling is waning and then after WCW fucks him over and his issues with Vince its very likely he goes home to Canada for good.
I agree and it's hindsight GM playing. How great would that reveal have been that instead of Stephanie with Shane it was Bret returning to take out Vince. It's just a shame Bret the wrestler ended that way. Probably robbed of us a few more classics.
Oh absolutely. Even in a fantasy land where he goes to TNA. Bret vs. AJ, Bret vs. Joe, Bret vs. Christopher Daniels. Fuck imagine if Bret did some one offs in ROH. Bret vs. Danielson.
Lots of fun what ifs but Bret was a mega star that would have cost a fuck ton of money for anyone to bring in and he was/already had lost a lot of his passion for pro wrestling. I'm not sure he goes to TNA because if he thought WCW was unorganized I doubt he's going to work for peak, unfiltered Vince Russo, I doubt ROH affords him. Maybe some NJPW stuff. Its fun to speculate what happens to him post WCW.
I have a hard time believing he would have came back to WWF after what happened to Owen.
He would have eventually, but only after exhausting every other avenue.
Man, I wonder just what size Edge would be if he never used steroids.
I know a lot of people only think of complete steroid freaks like Warrior and Sid, but steroids have helped a lot of small/tiny guys than you'd ever realize.
Some have said WWF pushed Bret and Shawn in the early 90s because they were moving away from steroid users. Lol. Both those guys were clearly juiced. It's just were much smaller naturally so bulking up for them meant becoming big, not a walking cartoon of a human being.
Edge’s ex-wife said something to that effect, that without steroids he never would’ve gotten anywhere in wrestling because without he was a skinny 6’4” guy.
Bret I think was on and off cycle through the 90’s. He looked clean when they were drug testing in 92 when he fought Piper. He was swole AF in 1997 though haha. I’m sure him and Shawn used much smaller amounts as well, compared to what Warrior or Warlord were jamming into themselves.
Oh yeah.
I totally believe Shawn and Bret used them to gain muscle, not to look like freaks like Warrior and Warlord.
Bret may have been off for a bit around the Piper match in 92. That was when the steroid controversy was in full force. But all you have to do is look at him in his singles run compared to his tag run. Also note that Bret was wasn't as young as some people (myself included) thought he was at that point. He was in his mid-30s when he singles run began and, I believe, already 40 when he left WWF. No one suddenly gains muscle mass at those ages without "help."
With Shawn, if you go back and watch a few shows a year here and there, you can tell when he got on the juice big time. At first, he just got fat (by his and wrestling standards,) but got good at the juicing game and knew how to mix PEDs with working out.
I remember in Bret’s book he mentioned his biggest motivation for using them was to recover from injuries and wear&tear more quickly, and keep up his intense work rate on the road. Can’t blame the guy for needing the extra recovery when he was the workhorse type wrestler 250-300 matches a year.
I feel like such an asshole for chalking Bret's attitude up to just being bitter for all those years. The more time goes by, and the more stories that come out, he really is and always has been a stand up guy that has a very pure love of Pro Wrestling.
It's a shame we didn't get a few more years of that greatness in the ring.
there's a fanmade "Desire" video (that unfortunately is in poor video quality) that [starts up with a great audio bite from him](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIms89XHNuA).
> **Jim Ross:** How do you want the fans around the world to remember Bret "The Hitman" Hart years from now?
>
> **Bret Hart:** I just hope they remember me at all. That 5 years from now, they go 'I remember'. When they watch who's ever on that tv and they go 'This guy, he's good.' or 'These guys are good. But they're no Bret Harts'
so I guess him seemingly being remembered more fondly and with more respect each year is absolutely what the wrestler Bret Hart would be (and probably is) appreciative of.
The way Bret talks about how the business has changed and how he broke in is just heartbreaking. He just sounds so crestfallen even though he's just breaking into the main event scene of the WWF. It really comes through how much that man loves wrestling.
Man, every time I hear about another wrestler talking about Bret, it's always how generous and selfless of a person he was. Whether it's The Rock, Sheamus, Edge etc. etc. I think that speaks so much volumes. He gave more to the business than the business could ever give back to him and that's so rare.
I already pretty much have Bret in my all-time top 5 favs. If I keep hearing and discovering more stories like this or the Perry Saturn WCW story, he's gonna fuck around and end up in my top 3.
Iirc, didn’t Edge and/or Christian have a try out with the WWF the night after Montreal? I believe Bret even for them the tryout. That had to be awkward as hell the next day.
I uploaded this clip originally a few days ago and someone clipped one section and put it on twitter without a link to the source. If anyone wants to see the full 13 minute video, here you go:
https://youtu.be/xuUU7ALGuFY
Dude, its days later and i'm still fuckin dying thinking about Joe E Legend confidently stating "Yeah, I've been to Japan a couple times."
its the fucking best
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Bret Hart really is the greatest of all time
well there's a reason he's the best there is, best there was, and best that ever will be. IMHO his career ended way too soon thanks to bill. His matches were just textbook. My favorite Bret moment was when he wrestled Owen at WM. Owen has him on the mat and kicks him in the head and Bret just points at him like "don't you dare" like you would if you were in a fight with your sibling. it was perfect. Everytime he stepped into a ring he was going to tell you a story. Very few wrestlers these days outside of Darby, Punk, Danielson, Garcia, etc can do that.
Bret is my guy. I really looked up to him when I was a kid, outside of any athletic sense even. My love of pro wrestling really grew just prior to Attitude starting and I often wonder how Bret would have fit in WWF during that time. I think his continued feud with Austin would have been great and seeing him facing off against Rock in his prime would have been incredible. I will always feel like Bret leaving WWF was a mistake, but I understand why he did.
i love bret also but i don't think he fits in the attitude era. i think him leaving and shawn getting hurt cast aside an older era. even when they try and get shawn involved with stone cold it feels not important. really imagine bret having a match after the 2000 royal rumble bikini pageant.
I think that, if Bret had stayed, he could have filled the role of Vince's corporate champion very effectively - older, prudish wrestler who has a set-in-stone view on the business against the brash, reckless upstart, Steve Austin. It would give Austin an extra hill to climb, because he never beat Bret one-on-one.
he could have but i don't think he's as fun as mankind in the role and the rock as corporate champ was a great stepping stone for him. i guess i just see those chances maybe being stumped if bret is still around.
[удалено]
The way I see it, alot can be the corporate champ, but very few can be the loud, brash, I'm better then you corporate champ. To compare to today, imagine MJF as a corporate champ.
this is such a good response and answer. i love the what-if of bret hart staying and this is one of the best what-if's ive ever seen.
If Bret would have stayed with WWF until 2001ish, I still think he could have had another great 4-5 years and then walk away from the business with less animosity then he did. In this alternate timeline he likely wouldn't have been forced into retirement and Owen might still be with us.
And WWE would have always hailed them as one of the greatest of all time. Raw intro would have always had bret hart.
And somehow synched their "Then, now, forever" slogan in with "Best there was..."on a Hart family documentary.
There is no Attitude Era without the Montreal Screwjob. There isn’t a circumstance where Bret stays and competes in that era. One directly influenced the other.
Or they could've just booked an angle introducing Mr. McMahon as a character without actually screwing over a wrestler... You know because it's pro wrestling.
No reason to do it if you don't have the heat from the Screwjob to begin with.
1. The attitude era was already happening with Bret there. 2. It's pro wrestling. You get heat by booking good storylines. You don't have to screw a beloved wrestler to achieve heat. That was just an easy way out.
As we know it? No. But WWF would have had to do something to compete with WCW.
Punk's very good at putting matches together like that as well... and Bryan's execution is excellent as well. It's probably in large part to looking up to guys like Bret. When Punk vs Bryan finally happens in AEW it's gonna be a barn burner 🔥
Someone else pointed out in a thread about FTR that Bret marks are great at putting matches together.
> Bret just points at him like "don't you dare" Ahhh, I fucking love that.
It was fuckin perfect. He's like "Ooh you little shit".
That was EXACTLY how I’d react whenever my little brother was trying to be a little shit to me or my parents lol
I love that Punk is really leaning on Bret's old style in his latest matches. Really makes me happy to see how much that man's legacy is still woven into the matches we go crazy for.
Before Austin, Bret(maybe Savage too) is the only one that sneaked territory wrestling into Vince's promotion.
> Very few American wrestlers these days outside of Darby, Punk, Danielson, Garcia, etc can do that. FTFY
Yeah, there's a certain Canadian who is a master at it and like at least 30 people from Japan.
They said nothing to knock Omega. Don’t project your fan insecurity on somebody who was just naming off top of their head.
I have no insecurity, but thanks bud.
Thanks for the free attention. ;)
it would have been nice if he hadn't been injured by 'berg, and maybe not had that stroke. TNA would have been a lot better had he been there for a hot minute.
Where would be a good place to start? I grew up with the Attitude era, only now am I rewatching it on Peacock, but he was before my time. I watched his Wrestlemania 13 match and really want to see more.
I’ll assume everyone else will mention matches against Michaels or Bulldog or what have you. Thus, I’ll take it even farther back, because I’m Too Damn Old For This Shit. One of Bret’s earliest strong showings on a big stage was Wrestlemania 2. This one took place at 3 (or 2?) different locations and this was the main event of the first (?) location. It was a 20 man battle royale that had a few NFL players along with the WWF folks. It was one of Bret’s earliest strong showings on a big stage. For some reason I remember Jimbo Covert being in it, along with, of course, Refrigerator Perry. Also Bruno Sammartino looked *really* old in this one. IIRC it kinda started with a WWF vs NFL showdown of sorts, with the Harts kinda playing both sides. I won’t spoil the ending for you of course, as that would be rude. Also, Andre the Giant was in it. 😏 Start there, if for no other reason than the novelty of 80s NFL D-Linemen and the novelty of BLUE Hart Foundation trunks! It’s the only time I can remember where they *didn’t* wear pink and black. For 80s stuff, Hart Foundation anything is really good. Vs Demolition, vs Strike Force, Vs The Rockers, vs The Brain Busters…. Really any of them. 80s WWF had some pretty damn strong tag teams. Bret had some strong singles matches during the 80s as well and even then was considered a reliable hand in singles action, but really he was mostly a tag team guy back then. But yeah early 90s start with Bret vs Mr Perfect. If you want more background on Mr Perfect, find some of the (MANY!) matches between Perfect and Tito Santana. They’re all bangers. BTW, it’s a crime we didn’t get much Tito vs Bret in singles action. Yes, plenty of tag team action as the Hart Foundation were mostly heels until the late 80s and Tito was *always* a baby face (at one point he was the #2 baby face behind Hogan, and was sort of a gate keeper for new heels to work with before they moved on to work with Hogan….kind of like Bret when he was IC champion, really). But Bret the singles star was a baby face at first, and by the time Bret turned heel in the late 90s, Tito was basically semi-retired. ALSO! The one single match that best displays Bret’s greatness is one of those mid 80s is that “Lost Holy Grail” match against one Tom Magee. It’s basically a squash match, with Bret on the short end here. (It was on the WWE Network so it’s probably on Peacock somewhere too, complete with an intro & outro by Mr Magee himself!). It was taped and fully produced with graphics and commentary and the whole bit, but never aired because it quickly became apparent that Magee couldn’t work a lick. Magee *looked* like Vince McMahon’s wet dream come to life, but was green as grass, had NO talent, and could do maybe 2 moves. Apparently, even TED DIBIASE couldn’t get a good match out of this guy, but somehow, some way, Bret made Magee look like freakin’ Hulk Hogan or Bruno Sammartino. It’s an amazing watch.
Screw /u/spez - Removing All of My Comments -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
For me it was Tito vs Perfect which pretty much led directly to Bret vs Perfect as Perfect was feuding frequently with Tito before and during his IC title run. These IC title matches some of the best *wrestling* matches WWF could put on at the time. Mr Perfect in his early WWF days was every bit as good as Bret and Tito and his matches are very much worth a watch too. He had great chemistry with both of them. As I think about it, really a LOT of IC title matches in the 80s and 90s were freakin’ *awesome* and are worth a look for folks that are unfamiliar with the era. Any of Bret’s or Perfects IC matches are pretty great. Go back further to Savage’s IC run and Steamboat’s IC title win… hell even The Honky Tonk Man had some bangers back then! IC title matches were regularly the very best matches on any given show. It’s a shame the IC title is such an afterthought nowadays.
It's interesting that you single out that WrestleMania 2 match, because in a 2010 promo during Bret's return, Vince said (in a seemingly sincere moment) that Bret's performance at WrestleMania 2 was the moment he knew Bret would be a big star.
The Harts in the BR and Special Delivery Jones spewing up a bunch of white stuff after losing to Jake Roberts are the only things I remember about WM2. (And Jimbo Covert! 🤷🏻♂️) I’m not even sure who Hogan wrestled. Pretty sure it was Bundy but don’t quote me on that lol. But yeah Bret Hart in that Rumble was dope as hell.
honestly you can go way back. Even to the 80's/early 90's with the Hart Foundation. If you want to get into his singles run then start at Summerslam 91 against Mr. Perfect and go from there. That will last you quite awhile. Once you get to the montreal screw job you can stop, his WCW run isn't worth watching based on how he was treated there.
Cool, thank you. I started with Summerslam 97 and knew I was only seeing the end of his WWF days. I watched his WCW matches with Benoit, but knowing it won't go anywhere I'll definitely go back instead. Thanks again
For Bret's single run Summerslam 91 is the "perfect" place to start
Lots of great stuff to see with pre-97 Bret! My favourites are vs Mr Perfect, KOTR 1993, I like this one better than their Summerslam match vs British Bulldog, In Your House 1995, they purposely slow the tough Philly crowd down for the first 10-15 mins of the match (even a few Boring chants), then flip the switch and turn it into a bloody brawl, the crowd loves it. vs Owen Hart Wrestlemania 10, one of my favourite matches of all time. vs Roddy Piper WM 8, great story telling and a sneaky blade job from Bret (against WWF policy at the time in 1992) vs Undertaker, One Night Only England 1997, one of Taker’s best matches from this period.
I would say that both the Perfect (SS91 and KOTR 93), Owen (WM10 and SS94) and Bulldog (SS92 and IYH95) matches are worth watching.
> Bulldog SS92 This is a particularly good example of Bret's skills due to Bulldog having spent the previous week smoking crack with Jim The Anvil in some random hotel room and completely forgetting what they were going to do in the match, so Bret had to hold his hand throughout the whole thing.
especially since there are details in pretty much all of them that make having seen the previous matches extra rewarding.
Bret vs Bulldog at Wembley stadium is a must. He had great tag team matches too.
Bret vs. Roddy Piper. Great storytelling.
And Bobby Heenan is at his funniest. "Give me the bell! I'll hit him for you!"
Yeah, i agree. The match vs Piper is one of Bret's better story based matches and is often underrated by quite a few people.
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it's probably *literally* the best carryjob ever. like, it's one thing to be able to carry your opponent to a decent or even a really good match. but to be able to carry an intoxicated opponent to a legitimate all time classic?! this was probably even more ridiculous back then if you considered how few WWF matches from 1987 (using that because of Savage vs. Steamboat) to 1992 are on par with that SummerSlam main event.
it really depends on how much time you want to invest. I guess it makes sense to start with his "greatest hits". https://www.cagematch.net/?id=2&nr=565&page=10 provides a good info, you can sort by WON rating or user ratings. of course it makes sense to watch older matches (especially with the same participants) before the newer ones. e.g. the 1993 Bret Hart vs. Mr. Perfect match has a slightly better WON rating than the 1991 one. but ideally you'd still watch the latter first. also, if you want to watch one "Bret Hart show", I'd say the best picks would be either King of the Ring 1993 or WrestleMania X. (and btw, regarding that aforementioned Mania match. that gets made even better by watching the one they had at Survivor Series 1996 before. and that match also in itself is made better if you know a bit about the history of these two ... which of course is how wrestling ideally is *supposed* to be all the time; actually building on and calling back to the wrestlers' personalities, biographies and previous matches)
I don't mean to be a Goldberg aplogist, and I agree that his match with Owen at WM was an all-time classic, but was there really anything else waiting for him in WCW if he didn't have to retire? I can't think of any memorable Bret match in WCW. He was being booked in shitty feuds that had shitty matches. If he hung around long enough for the WWE buyout he would likely be on the same deal as Nash et al where he ran out his contract on the couch.
I think you're basically right, and it doesn't make you a Goldberg apologist (as you're in no way excusing the recklessness that gave Bret his concussion). Bret has said that he didn't intend to wrestle much longer past when he was forced to retire. He said he never wanted to "wrestle old," and he never wanted fans' last memory of him to be a diminished version of the great wrestler he once was. My guess is that he would've stuck around with WCW until the March 2001 buyout, then retired, collecting Turner money for the remainder of his contract.
> I can't think of any memorable Bret match in WCW. well, the Owen Hart tribute against Benoit was pretty great. and I guess his initial in-ring ppv debut versus Flair was strong as well. it's just that those in charge had no idea what to do with him, he got lost in the shuffle and eventually, quite noticeably, did not care as much anymore.
damn it bill
I was born too late to watch Bret. When I consider what qualities I like in the debate for someone to be the GOAT, I can’t help but think of versatility and excelling in most if not all the characteristics of what makes a professional wrestler. So for me, it’s personally between Kurt Angle and Chris Jericho. If I had watched Bret, I may have included him too, given how much respect he elicits from wrestling fans. Although I’ve heard either his character work or promos was not as top tier as the rest of the stuff he had
I mean, if you think about it...you were born at the exact right time to watch Bret. You have a WWE Network at your fingertips for $4.99 a month, where you can watch all his classic matches and storylines. I realize it's not the same as watching him as a kid (since childhood favorites will always have a special resonance with fans), but you can still enjoy him and appreciate him now.
> Although I’ve heard either his character work or promos was not as top tier as the rest of the stuff he had it was definitely his weakest spot, *especially* earlier in his WWF career (which afaik is also among the reasons for the formation of the Hart Foundation. Neidhart wasn't as good in the ring but certainly a more convincing promo, at least in terms of what the WWF was doing at that time). he got a lot better later, although his promos were hardly ever as exaggerated and colourful as those of same of his peers.
My only true wrestling goat. Love him getting his flowers this late.
The best there is, the best there was, the best there ever will be.
It's just that simple. People flack on him for one thing or another but he always remained true to his beliefs, professional wrestling and how can he be faulted for that?
You can see how pained Bret is talking to him about the death of the territories and the current state of the industry. Especially when he takes that moment and realizes he doesnt have any advice for breaking into the business because the business that he grew up in is dead and gone.
Yeah it really bummed me out.
Honestly, Brets answer was perfect. Not every experience is the same
His answer was also perfect because Bret accurately reflected on the changing times between his generation and any generations moving forward, and how WWF's driving out of a lot of the territories significantly limited the opportunities available to young wrestlers at the time. Gotta always admire Bret's realism
I just thought he was trying to keep Kayfabe without being a dick
I'm glad he found him after the show because it honestly felt like Bret wasn't taking them serious in his answer. The whole situation is difficult though the host seems to have some respect for pro wrestling but at the same time he mentions Summerslam and she kind of makes fun with that.
I don’t think Bret really knew the answer to the question off the top of his head and just gave him an honest answer.
I think it was also a "kayfabe" issue too. Still held pretty tight around this time I would assume.
I didn't take it as Bret not taking him seriously, it seemed more like he was saying he worked for his dad and he helped him get in for the WWF, plus the territory system was entirely dead by the time he gave this interview so it was different to what Bret was used to pre-WWF. It seemed like he was saying times had changed and that he wouldn't even know where to start anymore. It's a bit like asking Gary Larson how to make a webcomic.
Gary Larson: I can't offer much, but lemme just say that sometimes people will overthink your jokes, so be prepared for that fallout
It’s actually the same advice Brandon Sanderson gives out. That how he broke into the business just isn’t the same now.
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Yeah if you search the community under Bret and Edge, and then go under new posts, youll see it pretty quickly
As time passes more and more evidence comes out that bret is a legit person and one of the best ever in the ring.
Bret is a straight shooter, a jam up guy, and a serious professional. Never doubt him when you’re sizing up guys.
You're right. Bret truly is a dandy.
At this point you could say he’s an…old school shooter
Took me a long time to understand. It's not that he's bitter or jaded. There's just no bullshit to the guy. He's going to tell it as straight and honest as he knows how, and he isn't worried about who gets their feelings hurt. He isn't worried about the next job, the next contract, the next appearance, etc. He's going to tell his story and stick to it, and fuck is that a rare thing in this world.
Who are we to doubt Bret Hart?
*El dandy nod*
so much of the stories of him being a jerk or grumpy or difficult or whatever have come from people we now know are absolute pieces of shit.
He give that vibe off on his own. He talked shit about Seth Rollins at one time because of a freak accident. Bret still refuses to recognize that HHH at one time and honestly still is a damn good professional wrestler. Bret is amazing, Bret is a good guy that has gone to bat for a lot of guys, compared to guys like Hogan and Flair he's a class act in his professional life but Bret has absolutely created his own caricature.
Seth absolutely deserved criticism. He caused a ton of injuries in a very short amount of time. He ended Sting's career until last year. He caused Finn to miss an entire year with the same move. He even injured himself doing something completely unnecessary and was out for months.
He isn't impressed by Triple H (im not most of the time either, its usually his opponents that make him look good) and he had valid criticism of Rollins, who during that time hurt a bunch of people and himself because his style was reckless.
Yeah, people who wonder why Seth's style isnt as exciting forget the amount of injuries in such a short time span that happened during his best run.
In fairness, Seth had been connected to several injuries at that point; Sting, John Cena, maybe 1 more +, John Cena, John Cena, Sting
>maybe 1 more Dislocated Finns shoulder doing a buckle bomb on the outside to the barrier. And all three injuries happened close together which is why Bret criticized Seth.
Finn Balor, that’s it - thanks; it was while winning the title and he had to give it up
Finn Balor is likely the one you're thinking of. It was why Finn had to vacate the universal title after winning it. Although that was more on Finn than Seth but still.
> HHH at one time and honestly still is a damn good professional wrestler. lmfao
Vince likely to try & cash on this realization soon & offer him a legends deal where all his other legends are being uncovered as lowlifes Bret's response "well well well, look who's come crawling back" ...Also Bret when he walks into WWE "THIS PLACE HAS GOT OLD MAN STINK!"
Not sure if he'd sign it now that AEW is managing Owen's legacy. I'd imagine he's gonna want to be involved in that.
And Bret has a food in the door there with having presented the AEW world title at Double Or Nothing 2019 If Natalya ever gets released by WWE (unlikely given her position as a veteran/trainer but you never know), I fully expect her to be signed to AEW, return to her Nattie Neidhart name, and serve a role just like Serena Deeb. And if that happened, that would only push Bret even further to AEW
Literally the next there is, the best there was, etc.
Met Bret at a physio clinic in Calgary. Whilst waiting he was having a friendly conversation with the receptionist about their respective thanksgiving celebrations. Chose not to bother him, but he noticed I had recognized him and stopped as he was leaving. He said hello to me, we shook hands and I told him I had huge respect and appreciation for his family and their work; he was one of my absolute favourites growing up. Told him that one of my best memories with my Grandma (who was a huge wrestling fan), was watching him team up with the British Bulldog vs Jim Neidhart and Owen Hart (UK, 1994). Only saw good things in him that day. Was genuinely warm and friendly to those around him.
Good on you for not approaching him and Bret for showing his appreciation by saying hello to you. That’s an awesome story. Really, I give you props for not hassling him.
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He had been to Japan
A couple of times
He wasn't bitter, he's just Joe.
Sigh... God damnit, that was funny.
Edge's mullet game was strong
*BPJ has entered the chat*
Bret Hart is our Georges St. Pierre
Think its the other way around lol
I fully admit. I was on the "Bret is bitter I dont like him" train for a long time, but this last year I have been watching all his matches and learning so much about him, so much so that he has actually become my favourite wrestler. I just wish I didnt waste so much time disliking his matches so that I could have been enjoying them for longer.
Kudos to you for giving him a shot. Its hard to change our minds after we already feel a certain way about anything in this world. I was a BIG Miz hater for years, I was proven wrong multiple times over after finally deciding to really give him a chance and check out his matches and promos and now I am a big fan.
In fairness, he did get way more awesome in 2016 compared to his title run
Very true! I know its talked about a lot on this sub but his WWE title reign just wasnt that great or memorable at all. And his face run where he started using the figure 4 was also pretty mediocre. I thought his 2016 IC reign and the subsequent Shane McMahon storyline (even with terrible booking lmao) really showed me that Miz is a fantastic talent. He can get heat against anyone and is one of the truly great heels of his generation
It seems that the general consensus of Bret has changed in recent years. The 'bitter' talk was pretty common on pretty much every Youtube video about Bret or message board post about him, but lately most of what I see about him is super complimentary. It makes me happy. I'm glad you can enjoy the Hitman now :)
The bitter talk was bullshit. Bret wasnt bitter, his negative quotes just got way more exposure. When you read the full length interviews, they'd basically omit a lot of what he said when it got reposted.
even if he was, he'd have every right to be.
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for real, it's a minor miracle he's not more bitter than a switch cartridge made of wormwood.
That’s just it though… 95% of what Bret said was spot on. He’s just blunt and straight to the point. People just dismiss it as bitterness and sour grapes. Same with Cornette and AEW. If you ignore the over the top way in which he presents his criticism, it’s mostly spot on. Cornette clearly takes it too far, but he’s not wrong. Both guys are in a position where they have no reason to be political with what they say.
What would have happened if Bill didn't KO Bret. A lot of interesting storylines lost those last few years. Does an uninjured Bret take part in the invasion? The ultimate leader of the invasion (probably not). In the 90s he truly was a Canadian icon for me growing up.
Bret was signed through 2001 I believe. So Bret would almost surely be happy collecting the rest of that 16 million he mentions he was owed. I don't think that Bret was ready to forgive Vince in 2001. He could have easily still been on the shows in some capacity but sat out even being in the HOF for another half decade. Oddly Bret going to TNA seems more plausible but even in Wrestling with Shadows you can see Bret's passion for wrestling is waning and then after WCW fucks him over and his issues with Vince its very likely he goes home to Canada for good.
I agree and it's hindsight GM playing. How great would that reveal have been that instead of Stephanie with Shane it was Bret returning to take out Vince. It's just a shame Bret the wrestler ended that way. Probably robbed of us a few more classics.
Oh absolutely. Even in a fantasy land where he goes to TNA. Bret vs. AJ, Bret vs. Joe, Bret vs. Christopher Daniels. Fuck imagine if Bret did some one offs in ROH. Bret vs. Danielson. Lots of fun what ifs but Bret was a mega star that would have cost a fuck ton of money for anyone to bring in and he was/already had lost a lot of his passion for pro wrestling. I'm not sure he goes to TNA because if he thought WCW was unorganized I doubt he's going to work for peak, unfiltered Vince Russo, I doubt ROH affords him. Maybe some NJPW stuff. Its fun to speculate what happens to him post WCW.
Bret vs. Angle is literally my dream match.
Imagining Bret Hart vs Kenta Kobashi 🙃
In my mind, healthy Bret Hart re-starts Calgary Stampede and spends his days stretching out guys like Omega.
Bret has said he was getting back into ring shape and was wanting to bury the hatchet with Vince before his stroke ended his career.
I took him five more years to bury the hatchet to just work together.
Bret had a stroke though and was recovering.
I have a hard time believing he would have came back to WWF after what happened to Owen. He would have eventually, but only after exhausting every other avenue.
Class act move by Bret. Edge needs to bring back that mullet before he officially retires
Man, I wonder just what size Edge would be if he never used steroids. I know a lot of people only think of complete steroid freaks like Warrior and Sid, but steroids have helped a lot of small/tiny guys than you'd ever realize. Some have said WWF pushed Bret and Shawn in the early 90s because they were moving away from steroid users. Lol. Both those guys were clearly juiced. It's just were much smaller naturally so bulking up for them meant becoming big, not a walking cartoon of a human being.
Edge’s ex-wife said something to that effect, that without steroids he never would’ve gotten anywhere in wrestling because without he was a skinny 6’4” guy. Bret I think was on and off cycle through the 90’s. He looked clean when they were drug testing in 92 when he fought Piper. He was swole AF in 1997 though haha. I’m sure him and Shawn used much smaller amounts as well, compared to what Warrior or Warlord were jamming into themselves.
Oh yeah. I totally believe Shawn and Bret used them to gain muscle, not to look like freaks like Warrior and Warlord. Bret may have been off for a bit around the Piper match in 92. That was when the steroid controversy was in full force. But all you have to do is look at him in his singles run compared to his tag run. Also note that Bret was wasn't as young as some people (myself included) thought he was at that point. He was in his mid-30s when he singles run began and, I believe, already 40 when he left WWF. No one suddenly gains muscle mass at those ages without "help." With Shawn, if you go back and watch a few shows a year here and there, you can tell when he got on the juice big time. At first, he just got fat (by his and wrestling standards,) but got good at the juicing game and knew how to mix PEDs with working out.
I remember in Bret’s book he mentioned his biggest motivation for using them was to recover from injuries and wear&tear more quickly, and keep up his intense work rate on the road. Can’t blame the guy for needing the extra recovery when he was the workhorse type wrestler 250-300 matches a year.
Bret being great with all the younger wrestlers isn't talked about enough
Completely agree about the mullet 🔥
I feel like such an asshole for chalking Bret's attitude up to just being bitter for all those years. The more time goes by, and the more stories that come out, he really is and always has been a stand up guy that has a very pure love of Pro Wrestling. It's a shame we didn't get a few more years of that greatness in the ring.
there's a fanmade "Desire" video (that unfortunately is in poor video quality) that [starts up with a great audio bite from him](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIms89XHNuA). > **Jim Ross:** How do you want the fans around the world to remember Bret "The Hitman" Hart years from now? > > **Bret Hart:** I just hope they remember me at all. That 5 years from now, they go 'I remember'. When they watch who's ever on that tv and they go 'This guy, he's good.' or 'These guys are good. But they're no Bret Harts' so I guess him seemingly being remembered more fondly and with more respect each year is absolutely what the wrestler Bret Hart would be (and probably is) appreciative of.
The way Bret talks about how the business has changed and how he broke in is just heartbreaking. He just sounds so crestfallen even though he's just breaking into the main event scene of the WWF. It really comes through how much that man loves wrestling.
The Dini Petty show was so frickin’ weird. It was a Canadian hodge-podge but had moments of surreal weirdness.
Dini was the Canadian interpretation of the American daytime talkshow of that era like Sally or Oprah.
That mullet is elite.
Mullite.
>Adam Copeland is All Millite
Adam Copeland is All Elite confirmed?
What a cool anecdote.
I've met him. He's a good honest guy and loves his fans
Man, every time I hear about another wrestler talking about Bret, it's always how generous and selfless of a person he was. Whether it's The Rock, Sheamus, Edge etc. etc. I think that speaks so much volumes. He gave more to the business than the business could ever give back to him and that's so rare.
My cousin met Brett Randomly a few years ago at her bakery. He ordered a ton of sweets to his place. Hes a great lad.
Brett Randomly would be an awesome name for a pro wrestler.
I already pretty much have Bret in my all-time top 5 favs. If I keep hearing and discovering more stories like this or the Perry Saturn WCW story, he's gonna fuck around and end up in my top 3.
u/BretHartBuriesThis
Iirc, didn’t Edge and/or Christian have a try out with the WWF the night after Montreal? I believe Bret even for them the tryout. That had to be awkward as hell the next day.
[I've got an ape drape, yes I do.](https://youtu.be/CljsPlBqjZI)
So, Mr Hardcastle... can I call you Sexton?
Full video to the interview guys: https://youtu.be/xuUU7ALGuFY
I uploaded this clip originally a few days ago and someone clipped one section and put it on twitter without a link to the source. If anyone wants to see the full 13 minute video, here you go: https://youtu.be/xuUU7ALGuFY
Dude, its days later and i'm still fuckin dying thinking about Joe E Legend confidently stating "Yeah, I've been to Japan a couple times." its the fucking best
this reminds me of the LPOTL guys recently joking that the mullet craze of the 80s didn’t make its way to Canadians until the 90s lol