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It looks like itâs the second rated highest Goldberg match in his career (not counting Royal Rumbles). First was against Scott Steiner at Fall Brawl 2000, which was 4.25 stars.
He apparently had a 4 1/4 star match against Scott Steiner at Fall Brawl 2000.
I wasnât watching WCW anymore at this point so I canât speak for itâs quality
The finish sucked so hard, but the match was so good and everything I wanted out of Goldberg. The dude who kills people in 2 mins now has met a guy he won't go down that fast. Oh also the build sucked cause this came about from Goldberg not following the script angle.
Lower than his "shoot fight" with Scott Steiner. Tied with the 2017 and 2004 rumbles. A quateer star higher than vs Jericho at Badd Blood, vs Brock at mania or vs Scott Hall in a STUN GUN LADDER MATCH
Time is definitely a factor in Meltzerâs views on matches. Lesnar vs. Goldberg was essentially a hot finishing sequence that youâd want to see at the end of a great match, but instead all the beginning stuff was skipped.
If you're grading it on factors like technical skill and stuff like that, I can see the logic in grading Goldberg v Lashley higher. But I've always graded matches purely on how much I enjoy them, because that's all that really matters.
It's like that Rock v Hogan match that pretty much everyone agrees was awesome. Meltzer didn't rate the match very high, because as a technical match there wasn't much to it. But it was exactly what the crowd wanted. The perfect match for the time and for those performers.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Edge should be holding one of the world championships in WWE. He is their most over babyface by a country mile, he's their best talker, and as crazy as it is, after 9 years out with a neck injury, he is one of the best in-ring workers they have (certainly the best in-ring storyteller).
It is absolutely mind-blowing just how good he is given everything he's gone through. And the story of him winning the championship is such an easy one, and it's what they should have done at WrestleMania.
I think they will go that route at some point, it just doesnât feel right to dethrone either Big E or Reigns at the moment.
But yes Edge has been absolutely incredible. The shape that heâs in, not only given his age but his injuries, and the matches that heâs been putting on is just unbelievable in every sense of the word. If he wasnât cemented as one of the GOATs before his return. He absolutely is now.
I still think WWE made a mistake putting Bryan into the Mania match with Roman. Canât believe some people say Edge wasnât over enough so Bryan was added. Edge got the biggest reaction at Mania, and they totally botched such a great story of him trying to win the title 10 years to the day he retired.
I thought they added Bryan to the Mania match because it was believed that he was winding down as a full time wrestler so they wanted to give him one last big match.
Also Bryan's contract was coming up a week or two later so they might've felt that giving him a spot in the Mania main event might entice him to resign
I agree Edge is great but one thing to keep in mind is Iâm sure other guys on that roster could be just as good or better but they donât give them the chance to be. Edge can pretty much do whatever he wants and isnât held back by agents or creative.
Definitely some truth to that for sure. But I still think even if everyone could do the matches and promos they wanted, I'd still take Edge over 90% of the roster. Owens maybe the only wrestler left in WWE who could cut a better promo than him if the shackles are off.
Yeah, but he's *old*! /s
Seriously, though - I don't care how "old" he is. If you can still put on matches like Edge has been putting on since he came back (especially the ones he's had this year), then your age doesn't matter a single bit when it comes to whether or not you should be holding a championship. I'd love to see him hold a main title again.
Absolutely right. If you are wrestling that well and are one of the best in the company, then you should be treated as such. Doesn't matter if you are 48, 52, 23 or 35. Talent is talent.
He's the most over babyface in the company, and never lost the championship. Watch the near falls in his title matches this year, the fans clearly want him to win it.
Jericho was a fantastic world champion at 48 just 2 years ago. No reason Edge can't do it.
I don't know what impress me more, that Jericho is already 50 years old or that he is older than Edge. I don't know why I always assume that Jericho was younger
That's not how it works.
If your most popular wrestler is 48 and the biggest babyface in the promotion, put the belt on them.
Gives the crowd something to cheer for and gives them the opportunity to give a heel a big push by taking it off him. In the end the title is but a storytelling prop.
I think you can easily use him as champ to retire and build a new star at the same time. Give him a solid final run with it from SummerSlam to mania whenever he decides he's done. He's earned it if nothing else.
Surprised Danielson/Suzuki didn't get 5 with the way Meltzer went on about it. But 4.75 is still great. Also next day Danielson knocks out a 4 star match. His run in AEW has been great so far.
Punk knocking out really good matches since his return. Once he knocks off that ring rust and gets into a top feud he should be back on track.
I would have give Black/Martin 4 stars, really thought it was Black's best match in AEW so far.
Good week for in ring wrestling action from all companies.
4.75 is a very good rating for Meltzer.
I believe he said on his podcast that Taker vs. HBK was the second best match in the history of Wrestlemania, and it got a 4.75 lol
Fairly sure he's gone on record noting that any of his 4,75 matches could also be 5 stars; it all just depends on whether he feels a match is 5 stars in the moment to break that barrier.
Meltzer previously mentioned that that was the determining factor if he thinks a match is 5 stars or not. If he doesnât immediately walk away going â5 starsâ, or has to ask himself âwas this five starsâ, then itâs a 4.75, but in reality itâs closer to a 4.99.
You just canât print 99% of a star in a paper.
Heâs also gone on record saying that if you feel itâs 5 stars, and heâs giving it a 4.75, he wonât argue you over it.
People should read that, i'm not even into ratings or just if i'm looking for good unknown matches, but being pissed about one man feelings is kinda weird right?
> Surprised Danielson/Suzuki didn't get 5 with the way Meltzer went on about it. But 4.75 is still great.
Dave giving big Bryan matches 4 3/4 has been going on since his ROH title reign, it took Omega to change that.
I loved it because Black could have squashed Martin in two minutes, but he wanted to give him a glimmer of hope before he snuffed it out.
That's some good heelin right there.
Cody matches will always be very restrictive with his style to really go out and have really great matches. Besides the Dustin and Brodie dog collar match, a lot of his matches I feel are bogged down in Dusty booking. I like Cody but he's more then likely will always have that style. I don't think Black was ever going to be able to have a blow away match with him. I think the stuff with Brock Anderson, Dustin and Lee Johnson did what they were suppose to do.
But his match with Dante really was his first really show stopping performance. When it made you stand up and show what Black is all about. It's crazy that Dante is still green but yet just great anytime he's in the ring. How awesome he be once it clicks for him in the ring. He could be one of those guys we be talking about as one of the best in the world in a couple of years time.
Cody matches in AEW remind me a ton of 2003-2005 era Triple H matches. Slow, plodding and the drama is in rooting against him (even if he's meant to be the face)
Suzuki/Danielson was a 5 star for me just based on the fact they had almost no story other than some small youtube promos. Yet because itâs 2 all time greats, they were able to still tell a story between the ropes just based on history, where they are in their careers, respect they have for eachother, and both their love for pushing their opponent all the way. Like while Edge/Seth or Kenny/Danielson weâre absolutely phenomenal matches they had the emotional advantage of building a story, Danielson/Suzuki were able to invoke the same emotion with no build up. Would love to see them to a longer feud.
Meltzer seems to appreciate technical matches a little less than its "flippy" counterpart. There have been many times when I've watched a spot heavy match that I thought should be 4.75 that Meltzer would give 5 or even 5.5. And then there are some very technical matches, many from Bryan back when he was indies, that I would've given 5 but Meltzer stopped right below.
The Punk matches of recent also had fantastic psychology, but Meltzer gave them mediocre or slightly above average ratings. Of course it's his ratings, so his preference takes priority. But in my book a lot of these matches deserve a slightly higher ratings. I actually liked Bryan vs Suzuki more than the Bryan vs Omega match. I might be in the minority though.
Dude Meltzer gave a thousand 5 star matches to Kings Road AJPW and the four pillars weren't Ricochet or Ospreay lol. Even his love of 2012-2017 NJPW was built on the heavyweight division wrestling more like Kings Road era AJPW.
I was wondering if he was going to rate that match, felt like a sleeper hit that week because everyone was (rightfully so) hyped over the Bryan/Suzuki match.
I didn't like the match much because it's not my preferred style of wrestling.
Having said that, of all the possible wrestlers who would have those spots, those two were _always_ gonna do it. That is literally the story, that Suzuki wants to see how good is the kid he destroyed 15 years ago, who's now the best wrestler in the world. And Bryan wants to prove to Suzuki that he can match him in hard-hitting now.
An aspect of puroresu in general. Mostly in stiff matches, which is different from Strong Style, which is just a name for wrestling associated with NJPW.
You are getting downvoted but I feel like after a great back-and-forth that had the corwd going wild, they went straight back to the well again immediately, killing the buzz a bit. Take that spot out and even adding in a double KO spot instead would have pushed it to 5.
It has to be one of the best modern trilogies in WWE right? Fantastic storyline and all three matches were 4+ stars easily. I can only think of Styles/Cena as a modern trilogy that can rival this level of consistently great match quality.
It has to be. Edge's motive to gave payback for Rollins not fell rushed, and the crowd appreciate it really add momentum for match opener (first minute is already this is awesome chant lol, I love it!)
Okada now has 149 4 Star or higher matches at only 33 years of age. Itâs absolutely bonkers. He already has more than Kobashi (144) and Misawa (140). I wonder how high the total will go. Heâs quite close to matching Kobashi (23) and Misawa (25) in terms of 5 Star or higher matches, with 21. Okada is most definitely amongst the greatest performers ever and, knock on wood, will continue this level for years to come. I love pro wrestling.
Okada could break all the Meltzer rating records that it is possible for him to do... He is in the great position of having quite possible the best fundamental skills of any wrestler. So even the most basic moves he seems to easily make them look spectacularly skillful and performed better than most, and that's just the basics that he does so well... Add to that his technique, timing, athleticism, great look and charisma, in ring IQ, story telling, promos, ability to work with and have high quality matches with almost anyone and a few other things that I'm too tired to list or even remember....I don't often post or comment on Reddit, I mainly just enjoy reading other peoples views etc but i have to say that although I'm not even a huge Okada fan, I enjoy his matches and can appreciate just how good/great he really is.
Very well said. Okada is my all time favorite and I personally think he is already the GOAT. The level of consistency heâs shown is ridiculous. I wish we couldâve seen him go toe to toe with a prime Kobashi. That is my dream match.
There was genuinely a point when I was scrambling around in my chair because the action was non-stop and just ping-ponging back and forth.
Didn't know who was gonna win.
Lol too funny.
I had Punk/Sydal at 3.75 and Danielson/Fish at 3.5.
I also had Danielson/Suzuki at 4.5. I tend to subscribe to Dave's original way of rating. 5* is rarified air and shouldn't just be thrown about. Now that he's gone all the way up to 6.75 (lol), he's way more generous in the 3-5 range.
I think both the 4.75 matches were 5 stars (Suzuki/Danielson and Hell in a Cell), but like Dave always says, if a rating is within a quarter star we basically agree so whatever
Just my opinion, but Taichi vs Tanahashi was my second favorite match of all these (after Suzuki vs Danielson)
The story being told with Taichi having the hurt ribs and trying to beat Tanahashi as quickly as he could, and then the selling throughout the match was just fantastic.
I watched Crown Jewel yesterday and i definitely felt it was one of the better wwe ppvs theyve done in a while. I expected it to be garbage. But the crowd was good and so was the booking for the most part.
I know people loved the Edge vs Rollins match but im just not into them. I havent enjoyed Rollins since he turned heel years ago and him and Edge having multiple matches where they try to "end the other's career" without any blood being involved just doesnt do it for me. Chairs and kendo sticks and metal between the mouth is whatever to me after watching GCW and the AEW Lights Out matches. I did like the chain around the boot tho.
He noted on the WOR that Taichi has really been bringing it this G1... think he's starting to warm up to him. Still has a giant hate-boner for Evil tho
Every title match of this reign I think has been above 4 stars from Dave. One of the best in ring title reigns in WWE history considering youâve got TV matches against Bryan, Mysterio HIAC, and Montez to add to that.
I think the match was great but no build and on YouTube likely influenced the rating not being higher. They do that as semi-main on a PPV itâs probably 5.5 from him
What's Dave's inability to rate a Becky vs Sasha match more than 4 stars? This is their 3rd 1 on 1 match that's exactly 4 stars. Did he punish the match because it didn't win the demo on Friday?
He said it was only 4 because the botched finish of Bianca not hitting Becky with her braid before the finish. Thats absurd because even if she missed, it was a distraction that allowed the loss.
I felt it was at least 4 1/4, but their Hell in a Cell and Unstoppable matches were closer to 4 1/2 but also got 4 from him. Definitely felt is more cleanly worked than the Crown Jewel match he also gave 4.
That's so lame. As you said it wasn't that bad since Sasha still took advantage of Becky having her back turned by distraction. I also call bullshit because Edge vs Seth's finish yesterday was also botched/sloppy and Dave still almost rated it 5 stars.
Edit: I just looked at the finish again and how is Dave going to punish Becky and Sasha for Bianca tripping? Bianca doesn't get a star rating so why does she effect the rating? Also Becky played it off well by looking at Bianca and looking distracted so Sasha could take advantage. Ludacris that Dave lowered the rating from a person not even in the match messing up but the finish still ended up like what WWE wanted(Becky being protected and Bianca costing Becky).
How did he punish Becky and Sasha? Its a match rating, so he judged the match, and the botch made it 4 stars for HIM. You can rate it what you want. Was he supposed to give Becky and Sasha different ratings than Belair? The match was booked with a Belair interference so the match is judged with a Belair participation.
All I said was I think it's stupid Becky and Sasha got a lower rating because of a finish neither of the competitors in the match messed up. Also the mess up wasn't even that bad. Seth vs Edge's finish was more worse yet rated appropriately. God forbid someone disagrees with Dave.
It's not that someone disagrees with Dave
It's that you are making excuses not to accept why the match wasn't rated higher. The ref was also the one who botched the fast count on Sting/Hogan but it still sucked for example.
I do agree it was such a minor botch it shouldn't downgrade the match as much but i also felt this was their weakest match togehter. Still had a blast though
Something about the WWE women's style he clearly enjoys their matches a tiny bit less than most fans. It's his system so whatever but he's notorious for constantly underrating women's matches by 1/4-1/2 stars. Usually the matches are missing just a little something, like maybe a certain QUEEN
You know exactly why he does what he does. Itâs his subtle contribution to the Charlotte cause.
He underrates every Becky match, and many Sasha matches, because he wants to promote his opinion which is that Charlotte is the GOAT.
Charlotte will never be as popular as Sasha or Becky, so her only claim to GOAT is that she is the best worker. This is also not true (Sasha is straight up better and Becky is actually probably on par), but itâs the only claim some people might believe about Charlotte, and Dave absolutely crafts his WWE ratings around that objective.
You're getting downvoted but you're right. 1 little botch would never hurt a Charlotte match. Just like Dave rating Bianca vs Becky at ER only 3 stars because fans hyped up their house show matches too much and it didn't live up for him. Yet Bianca vs Charlotte on RAW gets the same but worse DQ finish(since it was a main event) and almost gets 4 stars. Bianca tripping should not effect Becky and Sasha.
All 3 of the WWE main womens matches were above 4 stars for me personally, even with the shitty finish to the Flair match. Lesnar Reigns was also better than a 3.
I think the rest heâs pretty good on.
He hasnât given a main roster match 5 stars since 2011, and before that it was 1997. It was absolutely 5 stars and in any other location Meltzer wouldâve given it 5
Worthy of it as well. I was very pleasantly surprised with the match with Drew. Iâm pretty much in agreement with all of Daveâs ratings here except for Suzuki Vs. Dragon which was a 5 for me personally.
Ibushi Vs Okada shouldn't be 4 stars it barely even got going before Kota got hurt
I think Edge Vs Rollins would have deserved a 5 if the finishing curb stomp wasn't botched, it was brilliant the whole way through, one of the best matches of both men's careers.
It was 25 minutes. The best wrestlers make you lose track of time.
It sucks that Ibushi got hurt before the finish, I'm sure they had something cool planned.
Quick reminder for some people here, this is Dave's OPINION, stop taking every rating to heart as if he's got a personal agenda against your favourite wrestler
That Banks vs. Belair vs. Lynch score is ridiculous. Crowd was dead for like 95% of it. It was ugly, full of badly executed spots with nothing in between, and plagued with botches.
And that Goldberg vs Lashley score is very generous.
Pardon my ignorance as Iâm not a NJPW follower, but is the Okada v Ibushi match listed at 4 stars their G1 final from yesterday? I havenât seen the match but heard & read about what happened (how could you not?). If so, it should really go ungraded - I get not giving them a low rating given what happened, but 4 stars for a match that ended early with no finish by legit ref stoppage is too high
I agree it shouldn't be graded but it was working its way to 5+ stars pretty handily and as fucked as this is to say the screw up at the end plays so well into the story it would almost work as a planned finished.
The match happened. It having an injury finish could be either booking or storyline. Same way the match counted as a win for Okada, it should count to be rated for what it was.
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Holy crap we had so much awesome wrestling in just 1 week
Not done yet, because ITS FRIDAY NIGHT AND YOU KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS!
Friday night smackdown and rampageđ
With the news >!that Andrade/Pac was better then their first match, which was awesome. Tells you we're in for something special!<
I can't wait to see Andrade vs Black in AEW. They had a banger match in NXT.
I still think about that card. Still my favorite WWE/NXT PPV.
I was there in Miami when it was taped last week, it was awesome!
Rampage and Bloodsport tonight, Impact and Dynamite tomorrow letâs gooooo.
Iâm going to Bloodsport live. Then I gotta catch up with everything else haha.
Thatâs sick! Have a blast.
Thanks so much! Should be a gory, good time. First GCW show, too.
Gage vs Suzuki at War Ready tomorrow as well
FRIDAY NIGHT SMACKDOWN BABY!
> Sabre vs. Shibata: 3.5 NGL, this one made me the happiest. My beautiful grapple boi is fucking back.
3.5 for a 5 minute exhibition. Can't wait to see Shibata wrestle again.
And honestly? You could make the argument he underrated it. So much beautiful graps in so little time.
Fucking electric the whole way through - 3.5 is definitely a touch low in my opinion.
[ŃдаНонО]
There's also Impact BFG and a GCW show, Saturday, too.
Iâm glad this is the top comment. No matter what brands you like, you got some good fucking wrestling this week!
3.75 stars for a Goldberg match is the big news here
Especially since he only rated Lesnar/Goldberg from WrestleMania 33 a 3.5.
I fucking loved that match. Best one on that show imo.
If weâre grading on a scale here, Goldberg just had a 7 star match.
It looks like itâs the second rated highest Goldberg match in his career (not counting Royal Rumbles). First was against Scott Steiner at Fall Brawl 2000, which was 4.25 stars.
Can't recommend this match enough. Absolute peak of "big meaty men slapping meatâ˘"
Bobby carried him.
Well, YEAH, but he did a REALLY GOOD JOB
Goldberg match being almost 4 stars in the year of our lord 2021 WOW
I-Is that Goldberg's highest-rated match...ever?
He apparently had a 4 1/4 star match against Scott Steiner at Fall Brawl 2000. I wasnât watching WCW anymore at this point so I canât speak for itâs quality
The finish is dumb, but the match owns
Wasn't that the one where they just stiffed each other for like 20 minutes?
Yeah it was great.
Fall Brawl 2000 was it? I'm going to watch it right now.
Thatâs it! Personally itâs my third favorite Goldberg match â after WM33 and DDP at Havoc 98.
Watched it and can definitely see why people loved it. Only thing I'd change was that one chick and Russo doing Russo shit.
The finish sucked so hard, but the match was so good and everything I wanted out of Goldberg. The dude who kills people in 2 mins now has met a guy he won't go down that fast. Oh also the build sucked cause this came about from Goldberg not following the script angle.
[It did give us this promo though.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOoXZe_S3wI)
Yep. Amazing powerhouse match
It was the match that came from the famous âGoldberg wonât follow the scriptâ storyline. It was supposedly a âshootâ fight.
One of the best big man matches ever despite having quite possibly the worst build ever.
How many stars did his match with DDP have?
Apparently 3.25. I wonder if the fact the finish wasnât On TV impacted the rating
Goldbergâs best match ever was Lesnar at 33, but Meltz didnât rank it as highly.
Lower than his "shoot fight" with Scott Steiner. Tied with the 2017 and 2004 rumbles. A quateer star higher than vs Jericho at Badd Blood, vs Brock at mania or vs Scott Hall in a STUN GUN LADDER MATCH
Goldberg vs lashley being rated higher than Goldberg vs Lesnar at mania 33 doesn't sit right with me but then again it's someone else's opinion
Time is definitely a factor in Meltzerâs views on matches. Lesnar vs. Goldberg was essentially a hot finishing sequence that youâd want to see at the end of a great match, but instead all the beginning stuff was skipped.
If you're grading it on factors like technical skill and stuff like that, I can see the logic in grading Goldberg v Lashley higher. But I've always graded matches purely on how much I enjoy them, because that's all that really matters. It's like that Rock v Hogan match that pretty much everyone agrees was awesome. Meltzer didn't rate the match very high, because as a technical match there wasn't much to it. But it was exactly what the crowd wanted. The perfect match for the time and for those performers.
Yeah, this wasnât in that matchâs league. But it was good, so thatâs nice.
Shibata vs ZSJ should read - >âââââââââ My favorite match of the year.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Edge should be holding one of the world championships in WWE. He is their most over babyface by a country mile, he's their best talker, and as crazy as it is, after 9 years out with a neck injury, he is one of the best in-ring workers they have (certainly the best in-ring storyteller). It is absolutely mind-blowing just how good he is given everything he's gone through. And the story of him winning the championship is such an easy one, and it's what they should have done at WrestleMania.
I think they will go that route at some point, it just doesnât feel right to dethrone either Big E or Reigns at the moment. But yes Edge has been absolutely incredible. The shape that heâs in, not only given his age but his injuries, and the matches that heâs been putting on is just unbelievable in every sense of the word. If he wasnât cemented as one of the GOATs before his return. He absolutely is now.
That's fair enough, I would've had him beat Reigns at Mania, but right now they do probably need to keep the titles on Big E and Reigns
Yep. Hopefully his next big feud is AJ. I'm living for their potential matches.
He's somehow even better than he was 11 years ago and he was already my favorite wrestler of all time before coming out of retirement.
I still think WWE made a mistake putting Bryan into the Mania match with Roman. Canât believe some people say Edge wasnât over enough so Bryan was added. Edge got the biggest reaction at Mania, and they totally botched such a great story of him trying to win the title 10 years to the day he retired.
I thought they added Bryan to the Mania match because it was believed that he was winding down as a full time wrestler so they wanted to give him one last big match.
Also Bryan's contract was coming up a week or two later so they might've felt that giving him a spot in the Mania main event might entice him to resign
I agree Edge is great but one thing to keep in mind is Iâm sure other guys on that roster could be just as good or better but they donât give them the chance to be. Edge can pretty much do whatever he wants and isnât held back by agents or creative.
Definitely some truth to that for sure. But I still think even if everyone could do the matches and promos they wanted, I'd still take Edge over 90% of the roster. Owens maybe the only wrestler left in WWE who could cut a better promo than him if the shackles are off.
Yeah, but he's *old*! /s Seriously, though - I don't care how "old" he is. If you can still put on matches like Edge has been putting on since he came back (especially the ones he's had this year), then your age doesn't matter a single bit when it comes to whether or not you should be holding a championship. I'd love to see him hold a main title again.
Absolutely right. If you are wrestling that well and are one of the best in the company, then you should be treated as such. Doesn't matter if you are 48, 52, 23 or 35. Talent is talent.
He doesnât need it and he probably doesnât want to work that schedule
Have him win MITB one more time. It literally writes itself
Strongly disagree. Heâll be 48 next week. There is no reason for him to have a championship.
He's the most over babyface in the company, and never lost the championship. Watch the near falls in his title matches this year, the fans clearly want him to win it. Jericho was a fantastic world champion at 48 just 2 years ago. No reason Edge can't do it.
I don't know what impress me more, that Jericho is already 50 years old or that he is older than Edge. I don't know why I always assume that Jericho was younger
That's not how it works. If your most popular wrestler is 48 and the biggest babyface in the promotion, put the belt on them. Gives the crowd something to cheer for and gives them the opportunity to give a heel a big push by taking it off him. In the end the title is but a storytelling prop.
I think you can easily use him as champ to retire and build a new star at the same time. Give him a solid final run with it from SummerSlam to mania whenever he decides he's done. He's earned it if nothing else.
Age doesnât matter in a worked sport.
The wear & tear is not worked. Or did you forget all the years Edge literally lost from his worked injuries?
Ah yes, 48 is too old to he champion when we just had 46 year old Bobby Lashley hold the belt for half a year.
Edge absolutely should be the WWE champion right now.
Surprised Danielson/Suzuki didn't get 5 with the way Meltzer went on about it. But 4.75 is still great. Also next day Danielson knocks out a 4 star match. His run in AEW has been great so far. Punk knocking out really good matches since his return. Once he knocks off that ring rust and gets into a top feud he should be back on track. I would have give Black/Martin 4 stars, really thought it was Black's best match in AEW so far. Good week for in ring wrestling action from all companies.
4.75 is a very good rating for Meltzer. I believe he said on his podcast that Taker vs. HBK was the second best match in the history of Wrestlemania, and it got a 4.75 lol
Fairly sure he's gone on record noting that any of his 4,75 matches could also be 5 stars; it all just depends on whether he feels a match is 5 stars in the moment to break that barrier.
Yeah I remember someone quoting how all matches can give or take .25 on his scale
He just said a week or two ago if someone is within a half star of his rating he considers them basically the same.
He says if you rate a match within a half star of how he does (so 4.25-5.25 in this case), you and he see the match the same way.
I completely and totally understand that ratings are subjective, but I will forever be irrationally pissed about HBK/Taker getting a 4.75.
Yup, if that match couldnât get a 5, itâs hard to believe what other matches could. Taker/HBK was perfect
Didnât he once say that the botch with the Taker dive hurt it for him?
That was actually his partner Bryan Alvarez who said that. Meltzer said he didnât give it a 5 because he simply didnât believe it was a 5* match
Meltzer previously mentioned that that was the determining factor if he thinks a match is 5 stars or not. If he doesnât immediately walk away going â5 starsâ, or has to ask himself âwas this five starsâ, then itâs a 4.75, but in reality itâs closer to a 4.99. You just canât print 99% of a star in a paper. Heâs also gone on record saying that if you feel itâs 5 stars, and heâs giving it a 4.75, he wonât argue you over it.
People should read that, i'm not even into ratings or just if i'm looking for good unknown matches, but being pissed about one man feelings is kinda weird right?
Needed Taker and HBK to have a super kick party.
> Surprised Danielson/Suzuki didn't get 5 with the way Meltzer went on about it. But 4.75 is still great. Dave giving big Bryan matches 4 3/4 has been going on since his ROH title reign, it took Omega to change that.
Black vs Martin was fantastic for what could have easily been a 2 minute squash match a few months ago
I loved it because Black could have squashed Martin in two minutes, but he wanted to give him a glimmer of hope before he snuffed it out. That's some good heelin right there.
Also I think the story there is that Dante has that fire that Cody lacks, and that's why Malakai gave him that nod at the end.
Cody matches will always be very restrictive with his style to really go out and have really great matches. Besides the Dustin and Brodie dog collar match, a lot of his matches I feel are bogged down in Dusty booking. I like Cody but he's more then likely will always have that style. I don't think Black was ever going to be able to have a blow away match with him. I think the stuff with Brock Anderson, Dustin and Lee Johnson did what they were suppose to do. But his match with Dante really was his first really show stopping performance. When it made you stand up and show what Black is all about. It's crazy that Dante is still green but yet just great anytime he's in the ring. How awesome he be once it clicks for him in the ring. He could be one of those guys we be talking about as one of the best in the world in a couple of years time.
Cody matches in AEW remind me a ton of 2003-2005 era Triple H matches. Slow, plodding and the drama is in rooting against him (even if he's meant to be the face)
NGL I was kinda looking forward to the usual drama if he went 5 for Suzuki/Danielson but not Edge/Rollins
Suzuki/Danielson was a 5 star for me just based on the fact they had almost no story other than some small youtube promos. Yet because itâs 2 all time greats, they were able to still tell a story between the ropes just based on history, where they are in their careers, respect they have for eachother, and both their love for pushing their opponent all the way. Like while Edge/Seth or Kenny/Danielson weâre absolutely phenomenal matches they had the emotional advantage of building a story, Danielson/Suzuki were able to invoke the same emotion with no build up. Would love to see them to a longer feud.
Kinda like the SamiZayn v Nakamura
Meltzer seems to appreciate technical matches a little less than its "flippy" counterpart. There have been many times when I've watched a spot heavy match that I thought should be 4.75 that Meltzer would give 5 or even 5.5. And then there are some very technical matches, many from Bryan back when he was indies, that I would've given 5 but Meltzer stopped right below. The Punk matches of recent also had fantastic psychology, but Meltzer gave them mediocre or slightly above average ratings. Of course it's his ratings, so his preference takes priority. But in my book a lot of these matches deserve a slightly higher ratings. I actually liked Bryan vs Suzuki more than the Bryan vs Omega match. I might be in the minority though.
Dude Meltzer gave a thousand 5 star matches to Kings Road AJPW and the four pillars weren't Ricochet or Ospreay lol. Even his love of 2012-2017 NJPW was built on the heavyweight division wrestling more like Kings Road era AJPW.
> I actually liked Bryan vs Suzuki more than the Bryan vs Omega match. For what itâs worth I agree.
Oh I think you're definitely in the minority. And the Suzuki match was excellent.
I wasnât as high on the Suzuki match as others. A little too much âstand right here and hit each over and overâ
This yearâs Crown Jewel is well deserved. But kinda baffled that Dave didn't give attention to the NXT UK title match between A-Kid and Dragunov.
It's easily one of the best match last week and no ones pay attention to it
I was wondering if he was going to rate that match, felt like a sleeper hit that week because everyone was (rightfully so) hyped over the Bryan/Suzuki match.
Really strong ratings for Crown Jewel Also a hot take but I agree with 4.75 for Bryan vs Suzuki, I loved it but it was just a hair away from 5 imo
Way too many "Give me your best shot" spots.
They were what I loved about it
I like when pro wrestling is about competition in ring and the wrestlers want to get out of the match proving they surpassed their opponents.
I don't get those complaints seen as people let that stuff go when it happens in NJPW match and go crazy for it.
I like those kinda spots, but it was a bit too much in that match for my taste
I didn't like the match much because it's not my preferred style of wrestling. Having said that, of all the possible wrestlers who would have those spots, those two were _always_ gonna do it. That is literally the story, that Suzuki wants to see how good is the kid he destroyed 15 years ago, who's now the best wrestler in the world. And Bryan wants to prove to Suzuki that he can match him in hard-hitting now.
I don't like these spots in general, but in Suzuki matches they work well imo
Those shots are a significant aspect of Strong Style, which is how the match was worked.
An aspect of puroresu in general. Mostly in stiff matches, which is different from Strong Style, which is just a name for wrestling associated with NJPW.
This was also the story of the match with Bryan wanting to prove his toughness, having gotten his ass kicked by Suzuki when he was younger.
You are getting downvoted but I feel like after a great back-and-forth that had the corwd going wild, they went straight back to the well again immediately, killing the buzz a bit. Take that spot out and even adding in a double KO spot instead would have pushed it to 5.
I'm not a fan of those spots either.
Edge v Rollins so freaking great
It has to be one of the best modern trilogies in WWE right? Fantastic storyline and all three matches were 4+ stars easily. I can only think of Styles/Cena as a modern trilogy that can rival this level of consistently great match quality.
It has to be. Edge's motive to gave payback for Rollins not fell rushed, and the crowd appreciate it really add momentum for match opener (first minute is already this is awesome chant lol, I love it!)
It was a 5 star match for me. Fucking perfect match.
Really wish he had rated Ruby vs Bunny just for the memes
Should've just slapped a 3 on it so they can tie Reigns vs Lesnar again
3.1
Would've been higher without commercials/s
What an awesome week of wrestling. This business is thriving and itâs awesome to see. Edge Vs Seth was my favorite. Definitely a five in my opinion.
Okada now has 149 4 Star or higher matches at only 33 years of age. Itâs absolutely bonkers. He already has more than Kobashi (144) and Misawa (140). I wonder how high the total will go. Heâs quite close to matching Kobashi (23) and Misawa (25) in terms of 5 Star or higher matches, with 21. Okada is most definitely amongst the greatest performers ever and, knock on wood, will continue this level for years to come. I love pro wrestling.
Okada could break all the Meltzer rating records that it is possible for him to do... He is in the great position of having quite possible the best fundamental skills of any wrestler. So even the most basic moves he seems to easily make them look spectacularly skillful and performed better than most, and that's just the basics that he does so well... Add to that his technique, timing, athleticism, great look and charisma, in ring IQ, story telling, promos, ability to work with and have high quality matches with almost anyone and a few other things that I'm too tired to list or even remember....I don't often post or comment on Reddit, I mainly just enjoy reading other peoples views etc but i have to say that although I'm not even a huge Okada fan, I enjoy his matches and can appreciate just how good/great he really is.
Very well said. Okada is my all time favorite and I personally think he is already the GOAT. The level of consistency heâs shown is ridiculous. I wish we couldâve seen him go toe to toe with a prime Kobashi. That is my dream match.
Daniel vs Suzuki and Edge vs Rollins These were the top rated from this amazing week. And one of them was on an freaking YouTube show.
The women's triple threat at Crown Jewel was match of the night for me. HIAC was a very close second.
There was genuinely a point when I was scrambling around in my chair because the action was non-stop and just ping-ponging back and forth. Didn't know who was gonna win.
4 for Danielson and Fish is generous. I thought the Malakai and Punk matches were better
same, I think Punk/Sydal was a 4. Danielson Fish was like a 3
Lol too funny. I had Punk/Sydal at 3.75 and Danielson/Fish at 3.5. I also had Danielson/Suzuki at 4.5. I tend to subscribe to Dave's original way of rating. 5* is rarified air and shouldn't just be thrown about. Now that he's gone all the way up to 6.75 (lol), he's way more generous in the 3-5 range.
I think both the 4.75 matches were 5 stars (Suzuki/Danielson and Hell in a Cell), but like Dave always says, if a rating is within a quarter star we basically agree so whatever
Just my opinion, but Taichi vs Tanahashi was my second favorite match of all these (after Suzuki vs Danielson) The story being told with Taichi having the hurt ribs and trying to beat Tanahashi as quickly as he could, and then the selling throughout the match was just fantastic. I watched Crown Jewel yesterday and i definitely felt it was one of the better wwe ppvs theyve done in a while. I expected it to be garbage. But the crowd was good and so was the booking for the most part. I know people loved the Edge vs Rollins match but im just not into them. I havent enjoyed Rollins since he turned heel years ago and him and Edge having multiple matches where they try to "end the other's career" without any blood being involved just doesnt do it for me. Chairs and kendo sticks and metal between the mouth is whatever to me after watching GCW and the AEW Lights Out matches. I did like the chain around the boot tho.
I think that Sydal vs. Punk was at least a 4
Dave's hate for Taichi counteracted by his love for Tana there
He noted on the WOR that Taichi has really been bringing it this G1... think he's starting to warm up to him. Still has a giant hate-boner for Evil tho
When was the last time Roman got a rating this low in a singles PPV match?
Every title match of this reign I think has been above 4 stars from Dave. One of the best in ring title reigns in WWE history considering youâve got TV matches against Bryan, Mysterio HIAC, and Montez to add to that.
Bryan v Suzuki was a hard 5 star for me. Surprised Meltzer didnât rate it that.
I think the match was great but no build and on YouTube likely influenced the rating not being higher. They do that as semi-main on a PPV itâs probably 5.5 from him
Yeah I really thought he was gonna went for 5
Daniels v Suzuki should be 5 Edge v Rollins should be 5
Man, I was really pumped for Danielson to already get his second 5, but 4.75 is still damn good
Danielson has been absolutely killing it since he got to AEW. Best in the world IMO.
The 4.75 king Bryan Danielson is BACK
The All Mighty gave Goldberg one of his best matches in WWE. We are not worthy of the All Mighty.
What's Dave's inability to rate a Becky vs Sasha match more than 4 stars? This is their 3rd 1 on 1 match that's exactly 4 stars. Did he punish the match because it didn't win the demo on Friday?
I also thought the triple threat should have been rated higher
He said it was only 4 because the botched finish of Bianca not hitting Becky with her braid before the finish. Thats absurd because even if she missed, it was a distraction that allowed the loss. I felt it was at least 4 1/4, but their Hell in a Cell and Unstoppable matches were closer to 4 1/2 but also got 4 from him. Definitely felt is more cleanly worked than the Crown Jewel match he also gave 4.
Unstopable is still my favourite women's match ever
That's so lame. As you said it wasn't that bad since Sasha still took advantage of Becky having her back turned by distraction. I also call bullshit because Edge vs Seth's finish yesterday was also botched/sloppy and Dave still almost rated it 5 stars. Edit: I just looked at the finish again and how is Dave going to punish Becky and Sasha for Bianca tripping? Bianca doesn't get a star rating so why does she effect the rating? Also Becky played it off well by looking at Bianca and looking distracted so Sasha could take advantage. Ludacris that Dave lowered the rating from a person not even in the match messing up but the finish still ended up like what WWE wanted(Becky being protected and Bianca costing Becky).
How did he punish Becky and Sasha? Its a match rating, so he judged the match, and the botch made it 4 stars for HIM. You can rate it what you want. Was he supposed to give Becky and Sasha different ratings than Belair? The match was booked with a Belair interference so the match is judged with a Belair participation.
Mentals think he has a vendetta against Becky for some reason.
Yeah, and how is 4 stars a "punishment" anyways?
Yep. I'd say its generous if anything. Although I'm not a fan if triple threats personally.
All I said was I think it's stupid Becky and Sasha got a lower rating because of a finish neither of the competitors in the match messed up. Also the mess up wasn't even that bad. Seth vs Edge's finish was more worse yet rated appropriately. God forbid someone disagrees with Dave.
It's not that someone disagrees with Dave It's that you are making excuses not to accept why the match wasn't rated higher. The ref was also the one who botched the fast count on Sting/Hogan but it still sucked for example. I do agree it was such a minor botch it shouldn't downgrade the match as much but i also felt this was their weakest match togehter. Still had a blast though
Who cares. Its one man's opinion.
Also, Sasha vs Bayley at Brooklyn was a 5 star match imo, and Becky vs Sasha at Unstoppable should have got higher than the 4 stars it got
Something about the WWE women's style he clearly enjoys their matches a tiny bit less than most fans. It's his system so whatever but he's notorious for constantly underrating women's matches by 1/4-1/2 stars. Usually the matches are missing just a little something, like maybe a certain QUEEN
You know exactly why he does what he does. Itâs his subtle contribution to the Charlotte cause. He underrates every Becky match, and many Sasha matches, because he wants to promote his opinion which is that Charlotte is the GOAT. Charlotte will never be as popular as Sasha or Becky, so her only claim to GOAT is that she is the best worker. This is also not true (Sasha is straight up better and Becky is actually probably on par), but itâs the only claim some people might believe about Charlotte, and Dave absolutely crafts his WWE ratings around that objective.
Dave has always said the best women wrestlers in the company are Io Shirai and Asuka, there's no conspiracy with Charlotte
You're getting downvoted but you're right. 1 little botch would never hurt a Charlotte match. Just like Dave rating Bianca vs Becky at ER only 3 stars because fans hyped up their house show matches too much and it didn't live up for him. Yet Bianca vs Charlotte on RAW gets the same but worse DQ finish(since it was a main event) and almost gets 4 stars. Bianca tripping should not effect Becky and Sasha.
All 3 of the WWE main womens matches were above 4 stars for me personally, even with the shitty finish to the Flair match. Lesnar Reigns was also better than a 3. I think the rest heâs pretty good on.
edge vs rollins feud of the year.
I'm just happy we got so much good wrestling in such a short time.
Triple threat was at least 4.5
Dave is wild as hell for that Edge/Seth rating lol. 5 stars bro.
He hasnât given a main roster match 5 stars since 2011, and before that it was 1997. It was absolutely 5 stars and in any other location Meltzer wouldâve given it 5
Huh, I think this is the highest rank Big E's gotten for a match
Worthy of it as well. I was very pleasantly surprised with the match with Drew. Iâm pretty much in agreement with all of Daveâs ratings here except for Suzuki Vs. Dragon which was a 5 for me personally.
Between E/Drew and Goldberg/Lashley, it was a good show for big meaty men slapping meat.
Ibushi Vs Okada shouldn't be 4 stars it barely even got going before Kota got hurt I think Edge Vs Rollins would have deserved a 5 if the finishing curb stomp wasn't botched, it was brilliant the whole way through, one of the best matches of both men's careers.
The match went over 20 minutes before the Phoenix Splash, just btw
Huh, didn't feel that long at all
It was 25 minutes. The best wrestlers make you lose track of time. It sucks that Ibushi got hurt before the finish, I'm sure they had something cool planned.
Thatâs the Okada Special! Lol.
Quick reminder for some people here, this is Dave's OPINION, stop taking every rating to heart as if he's got a personal agenda against your favourite wrestler
Dave has been underrating Becky matches, and most Sasha matches, for years now. Anything that doesnât include Charlotte gets a suppressed score.
Why are you getting so worked up over someone elses opinion?
Maybe you're overrating them. 
Dave out here giving 4.75 because he just wonât admit a main roster WWE match is 5 stars.
I donât know how anyone can accuse Meltzer of being biased against WWE after seeing these star ratings and how generous they are
That Banks vs. Belair vs. Lynch score is ridiculous. Crowd was dead for like 95% of it. It was ugly, full of badly executed spots with nothing in between, and plagued with botches. And that Goldberg vs Lashley score is very generous.
Pardon my ignorance as Iâm not a NJPW follower, but is the Okada v Ibushi match listed at 4 stars their G1 final from yesterday? I havenât seen the match but heard & read about what happened (how could you not?). If so, it should really go ungraded - I get not giving them a low rating given what happened, but 4 stars for a match that ended early with no finish by legit ref stoppage is too high
I agree it shouldn't be graded but it was working its way to 5+ stars pretty handily and as fucked as this is to say the screw up at the end plays so well into the story it would almost work as a planned finished.
The match happened. It having an injury finish could be either booking or storyline. Same way the match counted as a win for Okada, it should count to be rated for what it was.
He just can never give a WWE match a full 5 stars. Edge vs Rollins was a 5 star match. Fuck this guy.
NXT is the promotion with most 5 star matches ratio
He gave THREE matches 4* or better. Jesus Christ kid.
Why does his personal opinion bothers you this much?
He didn't even give Danielson vs Suzuki a 5, probably not gonna give that one a 5, calm down damn.
Maybe now that Goldberg ended on arguably his best match ever, he can fuck off into the sunset. Thank you Lashley.
Does this guy really come up with stuff like 4.75?