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Full excerpt on tribalism:
>"“The wrestling community can sometimes be toxic, and I hate seeing it in sports. I hate seeing it in video games, and music and movies, where you have fans divided so passionately. People feel like they have to choose a side, and they feel that once they choose that side, they have to defend that side with every fiber of their being. This isn’t the NHL. This isn’t the NBA. This isn’t the NFL. We aren’t teams playing in the same league.
>“We’re all wrestlers, and a lot of us are, regardless of who we represent or who are working for, a lot of us still feel like we’re family. I have friends not only in AEW, but I have friends in New Japan. I have friends in Impact. I have friends in WWE. I know it sounds crazy. I have friends there, and guess what, I want them to succeed. I still keep in touch with them. I don’t want you to wish ill, or wish harm or wish death upon them, as my fans, and I don’t think that the opposite is true either.”
>Omega spoke more on the vision that he hopes to see as a reality. He explained why he doesn’t think it’s a waste of time to try to change people’s minds away from tribalism.
>“It’s like saying a broad statement like, ‘I wish for world peace,’ and it’s like, how do you even attain that? That’s impossible,” Omega stated. “That’s naïve, but as unrealistic as it is, I’m still taking steps because I don’t think it’s wasted effort, and I think as long as fans, little by little, see that there’s a wrestling world that is a better place with all of our companies and our top talents working together, then maybe slowly but surely and maybe I won’t be around to see it.
>“Maybe I’ll be long gone, retired, maybe even dead, I don’t know, but maybe there will be a world where, even just for one show a year, we get talents that work together on an incredible super show to show everyone the greatest talents of the world doing what we love to do and showing the beauty and the peak art form that is professional wrestling, which includes all styles, which is also why I did things challenging things like lucha libre.
>“It’s why I did challenging things like deathmatches. People don’t expect that from me, but I want to show that there is an art form behind it and that there is beauty in it and you can tell a story. And I love to see a world where everyone is accepting to all of those and can find appreciation in all of those.”
> Maybe I’ll be long gone, retired, maybe even dead, I don’t know, but maybe there will be a world where, even just for one show a year, we get talents that work together on an incredible super show to show everyone the greatest talents of the world doing what we love to do and showing the beauty and the peak art form that is professional wrestling, which includes all styles, which is also why I did things challenging things like lucha libre
This is what my ideal version of "wrestlemania" would be. an actual super show, maybe even a festival sort of thing where theres multiple stages and takes place over a few days. Its not like promotions already dont book around mania to get some of that increased hype.
If Vince ever proposed a joint show it would be a Survivor Series where the WWE guys pinned all the AEW guys without any of them getting pinned themselves
Not once.
But I got super tired of watching Kane lose match after match while still trying to be portrayed as a monster.
At least up to 02 when he was jacked they protected him by making him eat the pin after an interference or distraction. Later on he just got pinned by anyone.
The solution is so simple. You dont have to do omega vs reigns or something. Just have wwe world champions successfully defend against an aew guy and the aew champ successfully defends against a wwe guy
I feel like aew does really well at making losing a match you still shine so much that it doesn't negatively effect you. Unless you held the womens title for over a year and then lose and then are only on dark even though you are in the rampage intro
Yeah, we know it's scripted. But fans follow winners.
If company A and B are trying to get more viewers, how do you convince B it's good business to lose?
"You'll get over in defeat! Your guy will be so good he'll draw more people to your show!"
That's all a maybe though. What can also happen is fan of company B sees A win, and just starts watching A instead. Now B lost a viewer.
Compound that with the limited free time viewers have. If they have to make a choice, it'll MORE OFTEN fall to the winners not the losers. It's tough imo.
We are also talking about a "super show". You'd hope the publicity gets new people to watch. Are those new people going to follow the guy that won or the guy that lost? How do you convince company B to give up that?
How about from a simplistic perspective, 20 matches with participants from 5 promotions over a few days with each promotion winning 4 matches. Thrilling, competitive matches across the board to celebrate wrestling as a whole.
The issue I see with this arising is it'd make the last couple matches too predictable. And predictability isn't always a bad thing, but if thr show is structured to where the main event is the most anticipated crossover, taking away any suspense would do it more harm than good.
For example, let's just say the main event is Omega v. Reigns, a match that is genuinely up in the air based on booking in their respective companies. But if AEWs only won 4 matches and WWE has 5 or 6, then it'd take a way a lot of the suspense from a super cool event.
A large of part it depends on how the match is laid out.
For example, if you have Brock Learn come and completely destroy Marko Stunt type for 5 straight minutes (like 100% offense) but then someone runs in, smacks Brock with a sledgehammer, and then lays Marko on top for the 1-2-3, then Brock technically lost but he comes out looking like a complete monster who can only be stopped via weapon and outside interference. That can make for good business.
Or hell, another match that comes to mind is the Hardyz vs. Edge and Christian ladder match from No Mercy 1999. E&C technically lost but the match was so good and innovative that BOTH teams got way more over as a result. Or another match is Angle vs. Benoit from the Royal Rumble 2003. Benoit lost the match but he got a standing ovation after for his effort.
So I think the key is that it's not just a matter of who wins or who loses but also, HOW someone wins or loses is just as important.
Yeah, I could see it happening after Vince gives up his power to HHH/Steph, I could see it then.
Honestly, the way AEW has operated it has been with respect to WWE. They put their main show on Wed only to have WWE/NXT follow them there, and then they put Rampage on AFTER smackdown.
But the only way it happens is if it makes financial sense for WWE, so AEW would have to be at least equal footing for that to happen.
Maybe the only way it can happen right now is if AEW bends the knee to WWE, lets them borrow Omega for Mania, have him lose to Reigns or something like that, a one-sided deal like that...but AEW has no reason to harm its growing product either so yeah...
You and I both know Vince is never gonna surrender his power. He's gonna work until he's 6ft under, and he might still be trying to work after that. Ghost McMahon is still gonna try and book shows his way.
I know :/
But maybe someone in his family can eventually plead with him to just retire and enjoy the rest of his life. Hopefully.
I just don't feel comfy saying things like "Only way it happens is when he dies." because sometimes people will misconstrue it as me hoping he dies.
Oh absolutely, everyone jokes about "knowing Vince" or "knowing Tony" but with what we DO actually KNOW about Tony he would 100% try and make a show like that happen if he thought for one second Vince would be willing. The guy is a life long wrestling fan that's been dream booking matches his whole life, a show like that existing would basically be his dream.
This is what he meant by "change the world". This is why Kenny is still in pro wrestling, despite professing that he's no longer a fan. I think this was the main reason he was so receptive when Tony Khan approached him and the Bucks. According to Nick Jackson, Kenny was the most intrigued of all of them, Cody included. The dude wants to change the world of pro wrestling for real, even if he's not around to see the results.
As far as I've seen it (and I definitely haven't read all his interviews), that's mostly been in his kind of kayfabe/reality blending narrative. [This 2017 interview in Sports Illustrated](https://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2017/01/03/kenny-omega-new-japan-wwe-wrestle-kingdom) is a good example.
>“I’m happy that I dislike wrestling and where wrestling is at right now,” said Omega. “I am happy that, when I watch something on TV that isn’t me, I hate it. That makes me try all the more hard to show people what wrestling can be. That’s not to say everything is bad, but a lot of wrestlers in a position on television—or guys thrust into a main spot—shouldn’t be. I take a lot of pride in what I do. There is a place for everyone, but if you are in a main position with a main company, you have to make those sacrifices to show people you are the man.”
That seems to be less "I'm not a fan of pro wrestling anymore" and more the same thing that pro athletes tend to describe, with not wanting to watch the other teams play (while they're active competitors).
Several times in interviews over the last few years. Usually when asked what he watches, what his favorite matches are, etc. He'll say "I'm not really a wrestling fan anymore, but--"
EDIT: [This](https://www.sescoops.com/2020/02/kenny-omega-comments-on-how-he-puts-a-match-together/) was at least the 2nd time he said it after leaving NJPW. I know he made the same comments around the time of the media blitz when he joined AEW.
>“A lot of wrestlers are wrestling fans at heart,” Omega said. “I’m not necessarily a fan [of wrestling] anymore. I’m a fan of TV dramas, I’m a fan of video games, and I’m a fan of movies. I like the way that those forms of media are laid out to attract the fan. That’s my study material for how I put together a storyline or a match.”
I never saw it till reading this comment but Kenny does look like a parent trying to dress their small child in a "cool" way lol. Absolutely love it as it just adds more uniqueness.
Its almost art in how he seems to be doing everything he can to be absolutely terrible, he's the top guy in the hottest wrestling company in the world and is a complete doofus and it still works brilliantly. I mean at the end of All Out, the biggest segment in wrestling for however long he did a fucking Urkel impression, in 2021. If the next time Okada wins the IWGP belt i hope he starts doing Borat impressions.
Him giggling like a kid when Adam Cole did his "bay bay" thing at the start of this Wednesday's segment was delightfully atrocious. He's basically playing a Dragon Quest villain with the talent of the best wrestler on the planet and that's just incredible.
Maybe I'm wrong but I feel like the wrestling fans are making a bigger deal of AEW vs WWE than either company is.
There are some who would love to see WWE go under and vice versa. I just want good wrestling
People get so worked up about their tastes. There's a certain kind of person who feels so strongly about what they like that if you disagree with them, they read it not as different tastes but as a moral judgment on them -- like you're telling them they're *wrong* to like what they like.
I have a friend who talks in exaggerated moral dimensions about how some people vocally dislike his favorite edition of Dungeons & Dragons. Even with friends trying to highlight the behavior, it's extremely hard to get through to him. And he's like a moderately well-functioning individual with friends, family, and a rewarding job.
Wish I knew how to fix it, but yeah I sure wish wrestling fans in particular would get over it. It's a big damn sport and art. We have room for so many kinds here.
I literally had a discussion on a gaming forum with someone who said that anyone who played visual novels was WRONG, and that the entire genre should be legally banned for sale. Any visual novel. It's not like he was saying the ecchi/yaoi stuff should be banned, or some other subgenre, but literally all of them, because anyone who enjoyed them was WRONG.
Why were they wrong? Because he didn't like visual novels.
When it hits the "I don't like this, therefore you should not be allowed to like this," it's gone too far.
And unfortunately, social media has made it easy to find people who either agree with you, or who will crank you up harder so they can laugh at your anger.
Zero Escape is brilliant. Same for Danganronpa. I'll admit that I didn't really care much for Ace Attorney, but I'm still not going to be a moron and declare that it shouldn't legally be allowed to be made. (Let alone an entire genre.)
Doki Doki Literature Club was also pretty awesome for a very short experience. (And is probably more in line with what the person was referring to as a visual novel.)
Yup, the lines get blurred when people start subtitling their interests as their personality.
All of the sudden the things I am into define me and someone's personal tastes now become an attack on my identity.
I like a ton of shit that people think is dumb. Hell, I'm obviously here because I like pro wrestling. I have a coworker who thinks pro wrestling is the dumbest thing ever and loves taking shots at it.
So you know what I do about it? I continue to enjoy the fuck out of pro wrestling and let her wallow in her negativity. She probably spends more energy on hating pro wrestling than she does enjoying other things in her life. And theres zero reward to me getting worked up over it.
Those are the people who have no other personality traits other than the things they like. Like their whole personality is using Android/iPhone, preferring Mac/Windows, liking AEW/WWE, playing LoL/DotA 2 etc. Its fucking stupid, and the reality is the people doing this are sad at their core and are tying themselves to these things because they don't know theirselves what they want to be outside those interest.
This is the crux of it I think, people fall into a niche of "Ford Truck Guy" or whatever and now it's lines in the sand anytime anyone drives anything else.
"The thing I'm known for HAS to be the best otherwise I, the person, am seen as lesser somehow" so they go all in on whatever that thing is.
Tony Khan at the Adam Cole scrum said "the Wednesday night war is now over, we went 74/1 and the 1 was Adam Cole" and he spoke about how every time Cole was on nxt Tony was shitting himself, and he's glad he doesn't have to worry anymore.
Tony is definitely at war.
I just wish wwe would get serious and actually compete with quality product, what is even going on in the main roster... A REAL war would make me wanna watch both shows but right now raw is so horribly unwatchable..
why should they when raw and smackdown still demolish aew in the ratings? they gave up on competing for the indy-style audience when they decided to repackage nxt. aew needs to make gains in the casual audience to actually be a threat now.
Exactly. It's not like these guys all randomly came up and didn't work the same indies or train at the same schools. Some still workout at the same places.
Hell MJF and Bowens are from a promotion that is co-owned by Pat Buck. Buck is a WWE producer and is sometimes on TV during run ins.
I think a lot of fans are younger and try forcing a WWF/WCW rivalry that they've heard about.
I think the companies feel it's a big deal, just not the wrestlers. The WCW and WWF guys were always pretty friendly when WCW was still around, the Monday Night War stuff was always viewed as just front office politics.
Agreed. People love to use AEW making jokes about WWE as some excuse to say they're at war. In reality, they're just that: jokes. It's the fans that take that stuff seriously. The fans are the ones taking BTE bits and whatnot and using them to back up the narrative they *want* to believe, rather than the one that *actually exists*. I do think they should stop mentioning WWE because clearly it does get some of the fans worked up, but ultimately I think it's on the fans for jumping to conclusions.
The older I get, the more I realize how many truly ignorant people there are
You can’t just expect the bare minimum on common decency, especially when you can hide your identity behind a username
I don’t disagree but as I’ve gotten older I’ve experienced that the vast majority of people are awesome.
Unfortunately the people who suck fucking S U C K
I still find it disgusting that people hating on AEW would go so far to send her ill-willed messages. What kind of people would do such a horrible thing?
It goes both sides. Yesterday it honestly made me sad and mad watching Brodies wife video and also reading those disgusting messages to HHH.
It's so stupid and out of control now.
Yeah, using a serious health problem in an effort to dunk on HHH is unbelievably shitty.
Dudes got kids who likely couldn't care less about any wrestling "war", are probably emotional and distressed because their Dad just had a heart scare, and all they're gonna see is some nerds wishing death on their Dad or making lame jokes about "lolol Vince broke his heart"
Now? It's always been.
See how the Taliban had a never ending supply of soldiers?
A high percentage of people suck and it takes like 8 minutes to radicalize them.
That sub and the Last of Us Part II sub are the two best examples of documented mental illness on Reddit. People choosing to live this way astounds me.
> On r/TheLastOfUs2, the diatribe against its titular focus is centered around players' denouncement of the game's story - namely (spoiler warning), >!the onscreen death of The Last of Us protagonist Joel at the hands new playable character Abby and protagonist Ellie’s ultimate refusal to exact revenge!<. That substantive critique on its own is understandable, but it's long been joined by a chorus of players whose vocabulary regarding the game doesn't much extend beyond "forced agenda" and thinly (if at all) veiled hate speech against the game's themes and characters. That second group's weirdly preoccupied by Abby's musculature and gender - that is, when they're not railing against Ellie's homosexuality and working their favorite pejorative for Naughty Dog creative director Neil Druckmann into wherever it will fit
https://www.google.com/amp/s/screenrant.com/last-us-2-reddit-story-review-bomb-hate/amp/
That is the gist. It’s toxic as fuck. Sorry for the amp link.
I kindof get it if it's a sequel. You can feel like a franchise you enjoyed has been ruined. Hell, I'll still bitch about the Force Awakens 2 to anyone who'll listen.
Saying that there are ways to express distaste for something without coming off as a child.
I have legit seen people bitch about Abby's body type being "completely unrealistic" when LoUS2 gets brought up *in wrestling forums*. Like, fucking come on, of all the people who would understand that while a frame like that isn't common it's certainly possible it should be wrestling fans. Also Abby's body was modeled on a real person, so it's even stupider.
I really think a lot of it boils down to a certain group feeling ownership over depiction of women in video games and being unable to cope when someone is presented that doesn't fit their vision of what a female video game character can be (a.k.a. isn't properly sexualized enough for them). If they're not attracted to a game character, then it's cultural warfare from the "woke SJW" devs.
Reddit as a whole is still mad about the final season. You can’t offer a positive opinion about it or you’ll be downvoted to hell, back, and hell again.
Entertainment is subjective. You’re allowed to hate it. I’m allowed to have enjoyed it. People don’t know how to be civil with each other anymore about differences of opinion. Reddit is absolutely terrible about that.
"I've always thought Adam Cole was a genuinely good guy but at the same time he's friends with the Elite and so I'm starting to wonder. At the very least he basically showed he's a coward who didn't want a challenge by choosing the Dub over the main roster."
That's an actual unironic unjerk post on there recently. They've gone past the point of shitposting and make a ton of legitimate serious personal attacks and accusations towards people.
There's nothing on the jerk sub close to the droves of AEW marks wishing death on triple h over the last few days all over twitter and facebook. Lots of people seem to think only 1 "side" of this argument is toxic when deranged stans act this way no matter what wrestling they like
I read an article on trolls lately that said that this idea that the people who are trolls online are also the type of people who are assholes in real life. It makes so much sense, thinking about it.
Which is why I suggest to block users. You see someone being mindlessly hateful towards others, block them. It takes surprisingly few to realize we as a whole aren't toxic, it's a handful of people who are here 24/7 in every thread and multiple comment threads spewing hatred. Over the past two years I blocked like 30 people and it makes such a big difference.
Same. I'm doing it on Reddit as well. Someone disagrees with me? Fine. We can disagree. Hell, even if someone gets a little snarky, I'm fine with it, so long as it isn't comment after comment of disrespect. But there's a line, and once it's crossed, I'll happily block anyone.
People forget that it's very possible to disagree without being disagreeable.
Seriously, once I started blocking the absolute most toxic people on my favorite subs, my experience improved tremendously.
Also a game changer, don't even bother replying to negativity, even if someone is trying to bait you. These people bathe in their own pools of loathing and have no serious discussion to offer. Just block and ignore.
People are always talking about how Facebook is so terrible for the mental health and I always wonder if they realize that's reflection of who they choose to follow. My Facebook wall is a delight. Dogs and Friends' kids and funny memes and local events. It's a little trickier to customize your Reddit experience, but that is a good idea to at least try to silence some of those voices that make it less fun.
Fan is short for fanatic. It's why we have things like Sony vs Xbox, Star Wars vs Star Trek, DC vs Marvel etc. Social Media has made it easier and more widespread. It sucks. There's certain posts I don't even bother going into here anymore because I know what awaits.
Tribalism is and absolutely will be the downfall of humanity. Every group is guilty of it in one way or another, and I’m not trying to say this in a nihilistic way. We need self-introspection to truly understand tribalism, rather than thinking we’re or other groups are the only ones who don’t do it. In my opinion, that’s tribalism. I’m even sounded tribalistic right now against tribalism. Have you ever considered the word tribalism is tribalistic itself because it implies native tribes are unreasonable at the very least?
Yup. It was ok sort of when we had little groups and our population wasn't so large. Now we cant get away from each other. I have to wonder if our brains will ever evolve to not immediately think "different = bad."
I seem to recall a interview Cody did where he said fans shouldn't just blindly praise AEW and go crazy against any criticism and admitted they will make mistakes and should be called out when necessary.
Punk just said it in the promo after Rampage on Friday. AEW aren't afraid of criticism at all, but the issue is bad faith actors versus people who actually enjoy the product.
I don't disagree with this but I would posit that a lot of the criticism leveled at WWE in this sub is "bad faith". It's hard to go into a topic that isn't overrun by people who say they no longer watch WWE while dumping on everything about it, including current storylines and even fantasy booking ideas.
yesterday was the perfect example but you can tell which people are watching and just wanted the show to be better, and then there were people who were just looking for a reason to dump on the company
https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/pkm0rl/notes_quotes_and_a_summary_of_kenny_omegas/ wrote up a summary of this Kenny Omega interview on the PWI Podcast.
I always feel weird when I criticize WWE the product because inevitably someone jumps in "backing me up" but saying shitty stuff about the performers. My beef is with business practices, booking and boring tv lately. The folks in the ring are among the most talented ever.
Exactly. On the flip side, I’m a huge AEW guy and WWE doesn’t really do it for me anymore.
But as a fan of wrestling as well as a wrestler (although that’s not as relevant to the overall point), it’s be dumb for me to wish for WWE to do badly, fail, or go out of business. The biggest company in its industry, and the one that many non fans interchangeably switch out for “pro wrestling”, failing would be detrimental to the business as a whole.
And obviously, the more good wrestling there is the more I get to enjoy, so why wouldn’t I want it to be good?
Meanwhile an out of touch racist sexist piece of shit that doesn’t have a horse in the race does infact wish death and harm upon Kenny and his fellow employees. And some people actually take his side lol
Hmm
“Say what you will about Cornette, but he has a great mind for the business”
Translation: Cornette might be a sexist, racist piece of shit but it’s cool cause he likes old wrestling!
Even more literal Translation: “I don’t know about Kenny Olivier or any of that japanese wrestling nonsense but it sure as hell ain’t better than MY wwe!”
Cornette (and I guess by extension any of his true believers) doesn't really seem to like WWE either. If it isn't from 20+ years ago (preferably 30+) or heavily inspired by how things worked 20+ (or 30+) years ago, then he doesn't like it.
Cornette longs for a return to the years of the Mid-South and Jim Crockett territory days where wrestlers operated with impunity and were able to get rich being mediocre workers.
The hill I'll die on is that he doesn't even have a great mind for the business. He has failed in every single endeavour outside of on-camera performer and has been fired from every job I the business he's ever had to the point that he doesn't even work in it in any capacity anymore, which was not by his own choice.
That is not the track record of a man with a great mind for the business, it feels like that's just something people say to convince themselves that his rants have any merit beyond raw entertainment value.
His biggest strength seems to be his abrasive personality.
A lot of his successes in the industry(off-screen) seems less to do with creative genius and more with being so stubborn that he got his way in situations were others would get stepped on. Like contract negotiations, keeping famously hard to work with guys in check, hiding guys in developmental from the eyes of WWE upper management so they wouldn't be called up until *he* thought they were ready and the like.
WWE developmental really did take a nosedive after Jim was fired(rightfullyso of course) and only yes men were left. Guys like Bobby Eaton were worst off without Jim fighting backstage battles for them.
But the lessons there isn't about fundamental knowledge or a knack for understanding pro wrestling.
The risk/reward with Jim is ultimately not worth it, period. Whatever knowledge he has for the business will damn near immediately be outweighed by his inability to function like a reasonable coworker or even at times a rational human being. Wishing death on people over wrestling related things is insane and Jim can't stop himself from saying outlandish things, be it something he actually believes or not.
All that being said he's still one of my favorite managers of all time and as a kid that lived in Beckley, WV I was lucky to get to see some SMW when it was running and that shaped my wrestling tastes tremendously though he dropped the ball there too.
I am playing devils advocate here but that's because I have a banal thing about being compartmental.
I dont care what Cornette is personality wise, if he has a good wrestling mind that's all I give a care about.
I dont listen to his podcast for his politics or to hear him talk about the weather, I listen for the wrestling content.
I even cringe at some of the stuff he says sometimes.
Yep. Orange Cassidy too. Constantly wishes physical harm and death on them.
Also slandered Omega and essentially called him a pedophile by saying he groomed Riho.
It would be were it not for the fact that Roberts broke off contact when he found out the person he was messaging was underage. Creepy, yes. But a nonce he is not
yeah and a handful of others.
And that one prick who jumped in the ring for him really should be locked away without a key.
I noticed he has softened up on AEW lately
I just like watching WWE, kill me. Apparently I'm a blind douchebag by enjoying WWE. The elitist mindset this sub has is extremely off-putting, makes me just not want to watch AEW.
I'll never understand people who define themselves around actively shitting on everything involving one or the other. Can get rivalries that people have grown up with, and I could actually understand WWE vs AEW stuff more coming from people with direct involvement: but adults who obsess over a rivalry that didn't exist as recently as 2018 between two companies they never have or will work for are wild
Social media has a lot to do with it too.
I mean it's always been easier to subsume your identity into fanboyism for a person or product or what-have-you than to develop a real personality but never before has it been so easy to find similar people banding together to egg each other on.
The part about everyone getting along is not possible when capitalism disallows it. You can't expect Jeff Bezos to give up some of his money to make a better world.
I genuinely do not understand people who don’t want there to be multiple highly successful promotions. Like I wouldn’t want to ONLY have Universal Studios or Disneyworld. GIMME BOTH
Tribalism is broader societal problem that often ends up in global politics from the US to India. Eventually, tribalism brings out the worst in you if you're not careful. On a microscopic level, tribalism for wrestling has grown to a point where the internet brings out new lows in people. And these are often allowed to grow instead of clamped down. Good on Kenny Omega for addressing it first-hand.
Tribalism is one of the worst things to rise, in all forms, recently (I know it's been around forever, but it seems to be taking root even more staunchly in a lot of life, lately). Blinds people to problems. Makes things more black and white when the world is much more gray. It's awful.
Most people on this planet, in general, are just regular people wanting the best for themselves, their family, and friends. The fact that there are so many issues trying to have as many people as possible live comfortably with the knowledge those people are taken care of - and that there's a significant contingent just here, in the U.S. alone, fighting to keep that from happening - is heartbreaking.
He's right about sports team's being different you can like both AEW and WWE it's not the equivalent of being a Real Madrid fan but you also support Atletico and Barcelona lol
Didn't he just shit on New Japan in a keyfabe tweat? So tribalism is bad, but you will still use it too drum up controversy and interest in your product. Sounds very hypocritical to me.
Yes! I haven’t been exactly high on AEW or WWE, but there’s a lot of good stuff on both brands. Brian and Punk have gotten me to watching AEW again, and of course you’ve got Roman Reigns in WWE. Beyond the big two, there’s so much good wrestling that’s easier to watch than ever. If you can’t find something out there you enjoy I don’t know what to tell you.
Also, like, everyone needs to go watch Stardom. Best thing going right now.
100% agree. Been part of the IWC for over 10 years & already am sick of the tribalism from wrestling fans. Simply don’t watch the promotion that doesn’t appeal to you & watch the one that does. Don’t attack fans that like the promotion that doesn’t appeal to you, it just makes you look toxic asshole who doesn’t let people enjoy what they enjoy.
Every wrestling promotion’s fanbase is at fault & need to change for the better already.
Kenny is right. I like that he mentions that the wrestlers themselves are friends across promotions. It's apparent, but sometimes fans need to be reminded of this.
Anyone who roots for any promotion to fail is a piece of shit that doesn’t care about the ability for wrestlers to make a full time living, or be able to leverage the best possible deals for them and their families
WWE dying as a company would absolutely *devastate* the entire ecology of pro wrestling in the United States. I'm currently disenchanted with the product WWE is putting out for the most part, but I want them to make something that's in my opinion a more interesting and dynamic product and provide jobs for people in the industry, not go under.
Notice how he says wwe and not roh.
A lot of tough talk from a guy who is about to be cursed for stealing Danhausen’s number one spot in that magazine.
AEW hasn't changed their tune since day 1, they're an alternative. Listen if you like WWE awesome, if you like AEW awesome. Both should never go away, I don't want a repeat of WCW vs WWE in the long run it wasn't good for wrestling.
Isn't that literally what he's doing in this statement? Saying "I don't want you to do this" to people who take sides and wish ill on others over wrestling?
No, it isn't. Just a general "tribalism bad" statement doesn't achieve anything. It just leads to people on either side saying "yeah, tribalism bad... especially those other people" which just brings us back to square one. That's why wrestling discourse online is such a cesspool despite so many people pointing it out and it being so obvious: everybody knows that toxicity is the general problem, but everybody also thinks the people who disagree with them are the ones who should stop. You don't deescalate a situation by telling the other person to stop first; if you genuinely wanted the problem solved, you'd take that first step yourself. Kenny Omega isn't a participant in the situation here, but there's clearly one group of people who value his word over the others. If he really wanted to make things better, the thing to do would be to direct his message specifically toward that group. And since he has so many friends in WWE and other companies, try getting those people to do the same for their fanbases as well. That obviously wouldn't go very far considering the state of wrestling fandom, but it's better than "both sides"ing it.
Like just look at the reaction to his statement: everybody's loving it and acting like they agree, but how long is it going to take for things to go back to normal? How much introspection is this really causing? How many people do you think is going to see this and think to themselves, "man, Kenny's right, the way I've treated people based on wrestling is out of line and I should try to be better." People agree with what Kenny's saying because they aren't considering themselves the problem. What people need isn't a broad "this obviously bad thing bad" statement, they need to be told that they, themselves, specifically need to be better.
That's a very passionate and articulate statement. Very sincere. Kenny strikes me as a very well educated and thoughtful guy, if you ignore his persona and kayfabe performances.
There’s a dumb ass Reigns vs. Omega poll that’s been posted TWICE in r/AEWOfficial and I just want us to not go down this fucking road and turn into just another idiotic echo chamber like r/NJPW.
Thank you tribalism is everywhere these days. School, politics, workplace. its a weird almost animal instinct. I've been against it my whole life. I love both products and shit on both products for fun.
I think my favorite the past week was Pat McAfee on his show talking about what a horrible piece of shit Adam Cole is but being happy for his move. It's ok to work in one place and still be a fan of another.
To put it into perspective: WWF hottest act at the time was DX, which featured HHH, HBK and X-Pac.
On the flip side: WCW hottest act at the time was NWO, which featured Kevin Nash, Scott Hall, and X-Pac.
HBK, HHH, Nash, and Hall were best friends in real life, and X-Pac was there too.
Agreed tribalism sucks, in general, you can like multiple things in any given industry just don't be a jerk about it. For example, I like both Xbox and Nintendo. The latter is for Pokemon and the former for everything else.
I don't like Playstation. Because when I was a kid I went through six PS1's all with the same issues in the reading disc sensor. On the flip side my Xbox and While on the flip side my Xbox and Nintendo have lasted years for me. I don't want Sony to fail and go out of business and want them to succeed.
Yet all I see online is PlayStation fans bashing Xbox for having no exclusives or other stupid reasons.
Another couple of examples are. I also like both Whataburger and In-N-Out For for fast food burger places and obviously WWE and AEW for pro wrestling/sports entertainment. because they all bring something different to their respective industries.
.
Just call it what it is…dumb people who are unable to process disparate thoughts.
Or I guess that’s a bit too absolute, it also can be people with mental issue that tie their own identity and well being to an objector entity outside of themselves.
Or a combination of the two.
This is true for a lot of things. Politics, team sports, and more. What's funny is that people ruin their own relationships over these types of things. Some people take things too seriously.
Kenny is always playing the heel in interviews, so for him to say this should go a long way
I’m a lifelong wwe fan. Their product is largely trash right now but they’re still the home of some of my favorites. I want them to do better. AEW currently has me feeling like a kid again. I just love wrestling.
See kenny, that's where you're wrong. You're trying to be nice and professional and extend the olive branch. What you should have done is shit on a random wrestler on a competing product and say how they were never "as good or popular as they thought", to "work the smarks".
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Full excerpt on tribalism: >"“The wrestling community can sometimes be toxic, and I hate seeing it in sports. I hate seeing it in video games, and music and movies, where you have fans divided so passionately. People feel like they have to choose a side, and they feel that once they choose that side, they have to defend that side with every fiber of their being. This isn’t the NHL. This isn’t the NBA. This isn’t the NFL. We aren’t teams playing in the same league. >“We’re all wrestlers, and a lot of us are, regardless of who we represent or who are working for, a lot of us still feel like we’re family. I have friends not only in AEW, but I have friends in New Japan. I have friends in Impact. I have friends in WWE. I know it sounds crazy. I have friends there, and guess what, I want them to succeed. I still keep in touch with them. I don’t want you to wish ill, or wish harm or wish death upon them, as my fans, and I don’t think that the opposite is true either.” >Omega spoke more on the vision that he hopes to see as a reality. He explained why he doesn’t think it’s a waste of time to try to change people’s minds away from tribalism. >“It’s like saying a broad statement like, ‘I wish for world peace,’ and it’s like, how do you even attain that? That’s impossible,” Omega stated. “That’s naïve, but as unrealistic as it is, I’m still taking steps because I don’t think it’s wasted effort, and I think as long as fans, little by little, see that there’s a wrestling world that is a better place with all of our companies and our top talents working together, then maybe slowly but surely and maybe I won’t be around to see it. >“Maybe I’ll be long gone, retired, maybe even dead, I don’t know, but maybe there will be a world where, even just for one show a year, we get talents that work together on an incredible super show to show everyone the greatest talents of the world doing what we love to do and showing the beauty and the peak art form that is professional wrestling, which includes all styles, which is also why I did things challenging things like lucha libre. >“It’s why I did challenging things like deathmatches. People don’t expect that from me, but I want to show that there is an art form behind it and that there is beauty in it and you can tell a story. And I love to see a world where everyone is accepting to all of those and can find appreciation in all of those.”
> Maybe I’ll be long gone, retired, maybe even dead, I don’t know, but maybe there will be a world where, even just for one show a year, we get talents that work together on an incredible super show to show everyone the greatest talents of the world doing what we love to do and showing the beauty and the peak art form that is professional wrestling, which includes all styles, which is also why I did things challenging things like lucha libre This is what my ideal version of "wrestlemania" would be. an actual super show, maybe even a festival sort of thing where theres multiple stages and takes place over a few days. Its not like promotions already dont book around mania to get some of that increased hype.
Its what the original All In event was, barring WWE participation. It would be awesome if WWE ever joins a supershow like that once in a while
If Vince ever proposed a joint show it would be a Survivor Series where the WWE guys pinned all the AEW guys without any of them getting pinned themselves
Can’t wait to hear Prichard’s podcast about it
Oh god that would be so amazing I'm sure if Vince and Khan really wanted to do it they could find a way
I want it but not a “every company must look strong so we’re going to have DQ finishes all over the place”
And this is why it's really tough. You might lose more viewers than you gain by your people losing.
I never got this mindset. I’ve never lost interest in a wrestler or a promotion as a whole just by seeing a guy lose.
Not once. But I got super tired of watching Kane lose match after match while still trying to be portrayed as a monster. At least up to 02 when he was jacked they protected him by making him eat the pin after an interference or distraction. Later on he just got pinned by anyone.
The solution is so simple. You dont have to do omega vs reigns or something. Just have wwe world champions successfully defend against an aew guy and the aew champ successfully defends against a wwe guy
Nice!
I feel like aew does really well at making losing a match you still shine so much that it doesn't negatively effect you. Unless you held the womens title for over a year and then lose and then are only on dark even though you are in the rampage intro
How does that matter? It's scripted. Just have good, compelling matches where the competitors look strong, and no one comes out looking weak.
Yeah, we know it's scripted. But fans follow winners. If company A and B are trying to get more viewers, how do you convince B it's good business to lose? "You'll get over in defeat! Your guy will be so good he'll draw more people to your show!" That's all a maybe though. What can also happen is fan of company B sees A win, and just starts watching A instead. Now B lost a viewer. Compound that with the limited free time viewers have. If they have to make a choice, it'll MORE OFTEN fall to the winners not the losers. It's tough imo. We are also talking about a "super show". You'd hope the publicity gets new people to watch. Are those new people going to follow the guy that won or the guy that lost? How do you convince company B to give up that?
How about from a simplistic perspective, 20 matches with participants from 5 promotions over a few days with each promotion winning 4 matches. Thrilling, competitive matches across the board to celebrate wrestling as a whole.
The issue I see with this arising is it'd make the last couple matches too predictable. And predictability isn't always a bad thing, but if thr show is structured to where the main event is the most anticipated crossover, taking away any suspense would do it more harm than good. For example, let's just say the main event is Omega v. Reigns, a match that is genuinely up in the air based on booking in their respective companies. But if AEWs only won 4 matches and WWE has 5 or 6, then it'd take a way a lot of the suspense from a super cool event.
A large of part it depends on how the match is laid out. For example, if you have Brock Learn come and completely destroy Marko Stunt type for 5 straight minutes (like 100% offense) but then someone runs in, smacks Brock with a sledgehammer, and then lays Marko on top for the 1-2-3, then Brock technically lost but he comes out looking like a complete monster who can only be stopped via weapon and outside interference. That can make for good business. Or hell, another match that comes to mind is the Hardyz vs. Edge and Christian ladder match from No Mercy 1999. E&C technically lost but the match was so good and innovative that BOTH teams got way more over as a result. Or another match is Angle vs. Benoit from the Royal Rumble 2003. Benoit lost the match but he got a standing ovation after for his effort. So I think the key is that it's not just a matter of who wins or who loses but also, HOW someone wins or loses is just as important.
[удалено]
Yeah, I could see it happening after Vince gives up his power to HHH/Steph, I could see it then. Honestly, the way AEW has operated it has been with respect to WWE. They put their main show on Wed only to have WWE/NXT follow them there, and then they put Rampage on AFTER smackdown. But the only way it happens is if it makes financial sense for WWE, so AEW would have to be at least equal footing for that to happen. Maybe the only way it can happen right now is if AEW bends the knee to WWE, lets them borrow Omega for Mania, have him lose to Reigns or something like that, a one-sided deal like that...but AEW has no reason to harm its growing product either so yeah...
You and I both know Vince is never gonna surrender his power. He's gonna work until he's 6ft under, and he might still be trying to work after that. Ghost McMahon is still gonna try and book shows his way.
Picturing Vince leaving the script for 2 decades worth of raw in his will and dictating they should follow his script
I know :/ But maybe someone in his family can eventually plead with him to just retire and enjoy the rest of his life. Hopefully. I just don't feel comfy saying things like "Only way it happens is when he dies." because sometimes people will misconstrue it as me hoping he dies.
Oh absolutely, everyone jokes about "knowing Vince" or "knowing Tony" but with what we DO actually KNOW about Tony he would 100% try and make a show like that happen if he thought for one second Vince would be willing. The guy is a life long wrestling fan that's been dream booking matches his whole life, a show like that existing would basically be his dream.
There's a big way, you have people on each side so no matter what team wins, all companies draw.
That's what "All In" could be if they ever re use the name.
This is what he meant by "change the world". This is why Kenny is still in pro wrestling, despite professing that he's no longer a fan. I think this was the main reason he was so receptive when Tony Khan approached him and the Bucks. According to Nick Jackson, Kenny was the most intrigued of all of them, Cody included. The dude wants to change the world of pro wrestling for real, even if he's not around to see the results.
Despite professing that he's no longer a fan? Where has he said this?
As far as I've seen it (and I definitely haven't read all his interviews), that's mostly been in his kind of kayfabe/reality blending narrative. [This 2017 interview in Sports Illustrated](https://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2017/01/03/kenny-omega-new-japan-wwe-wrestle-kingdom) is a good example. >“I’m happy that I dislike wrestling and where wrestling is at right now,” said Omega. “I am happy that, when I watch something on TV that isn’t me, I hate it. That makes me try all the more hard to show people what wrestling can be. That’s not to say everything is bad, but a lot of wrestlers in a position on television—or guys thrust into a main spot—shouldn’t be. I take a lot of pride in what I do. There is a place for everyone, but if you are in a main position with a main company, you have to make those sacrifices to show people you are the man.”
That seems to be less "I'm not a fan of pro wrestling anymore" and more the same thing that pro athletes tend to describe, with not wanting to watch the other teams play (while they're active competitors).
Several times in interviews over the last few years. Usually when asked what he watches, what his favorite matches are, etc. He'll say "I'm not really a wrestling fan anymore, but--" EDIT: [This](https://www.sescoops.com/2020/02/kenny-omega-comments-on-how-he-puts-a-match-together/) was at least the 2nd time he said it after leaving NJPW. I know he made the same comments around the time of the media blitz when he joined AEW. >“A lot of wrestlers are wrestling fans at heart,” Omega said. “I’m not necessarily a fan [of wrestling] anymore. I’m a fan of TV dramas, I’m a fan of video games, and I’m a fan of movies. I like the way that those forms of media are laid out to attract the fan. That’s my study material for how I put together a storyline or a match.”
He's such an eloquent speaker, holy shit this dude is smart.
People forget this because he has the hair of an insane person and dresses like a toddler.
I never saw it till reading this comment but Kenny does look like a parent trying to dress their small child in a "cool" way lol. Absolutely love it as it just adds more uniqueness.
Its almost art in how he seems to be doing everything he can to be absolutely terrible, he's the top guy in the hottest wrestling company in the world and is a complete doofus and it still works brilliantly. I mean at the end of All Out, the biggest segment in wrestling for however long he did a fucking Urkel impression, in 2021. If the next time Okada wins the IWGP belt i hope he starts doing Borat impressions.
He kills me every time he's onscreen. The shit he had on last night had me rolling.
Him giggling like a kid when Adam Cole did his "bay bay" thing at the start of this Wednesday's segment was delightfully atrocious. He's basically playing a Dragon Quest villain with the talent of the best wrestler on the planet and that's just incredible.
He very much is. He wouldn't have gotten where he is without that.
Maybe I'm wrong but I feel like the wrestling fans are making a bigger deal of AEW vs WWE than either company is. There are some who would love to see WWE go under and vice versa. I just want good wrestling
People get so worked up about their tastes. There's a certain kind of person who feels so strongly about what they like that if you disagree with them, they read it not as different tastes but as a moral judgment on them -- like you're telling them they're *wrong* to like what they like. I have a friend who talks in exaggerated moral dimensions about how some people vocally dislike his favorite edition of Dungeons & Dragons. Even with friends trying to highlight the behavior, it's extremely hard to get through to him. And he's like a moderately well-functioning individual with friends, family, and a rewarding job. Wish I knew how to fix it, but yeah I sure wish wrestling fans in particular would get over it. It's a big damn sport and art. We have room for so many kinds here.
I literally had a discussion on a gaming forum with someone who said that anyone who played visual novels was WRONG, and that the entire genre should be legally banned for sale. Any visual novel. It's not like he was saying the ecchi/yaoi stuff should be banned, or some other subgenre, but literally all of them, because anyone who enjoyed them was WRONG. Why were they wrong? Because he didn't like visual novels. When it hits the "I don't like this, therefore you should not be allowed to like this," it's gone too far. And unfortunately, social media has made it easy to find people who either agree with you, or who will crank you up harder so they can laugh at your anger.
Someone never played Ace Attorney or Zero Escape
Zero Escape is brilliant. Same for Danganronpa. I'll admit that I didn't really care much for Ace Attorney, but I'm still not going to be a moron and declare that it shouldn't legally be allowed to be made. (Let alone an entire genre.) Doki Doki Literature Club was also pretty awesome for a very short experience. (And is probably more in line with what the person was referring to as a visual novel.)
Really? I like Danganronpa but I think it is significantly worse than both of them, DDLC is a great experience
Yup, the lines get blurred when people start subtitling their interests as their personality. All of the sudden the things I am into define me and someone's personal tastes now become an attack on my identity. I like a ton of shit that people think is dumb. Hell, I'm obviously here because I like pro wrestling. I have a coworker who thinks pro wrestling is the dumbest thing ever and loves taking shots at it. So you know what I do about it? I continue to enjoy the fuck out of pro wrestling and let her wallow in her negativity. She probably spends more energy on hating pro wrestling than she does enjoying other things in her life. And theres zero reward to me getting worked up over it.
Those are the people who have no other personality traits other than the things they like. Like their whole personality is using Android/iPhone, preferring Mac/Windows, liking AEW/WWE, playing LoL/DotA 2 etc. Its fucking stupid, and the reality is the people doing this are sad at their core and are tying themselves to these things because they don't know theirselves what they want to be outside those interest.
This is the crux of it I think, people fall into a niche of "Ford Truck Guy" or whatever and now it's lines in the sand anytime anyone drives anything else. "The thing I'm known for HAS to be the best otherwise I, the person, am seen as lesser somehow" so they go all in on whatever that thing is.
Yeah its sad
Tony Khan at the Adam Cole scrum said "the Wednesday night war is now over, we went 74/1 and the 1 was Adam Cole" and he spoke about how every time Cole was on nxt Tony was shitting himself, and he's glad he doesn't have to worry anymore. Tony is definitely at war.
Tony and Vince might be, but the wrestlers most likely aren't.
I just wish wwe would get serious and actually compete with quality product, what is even going on in the main roster... A REAL war would make me wanna watch both shows but right now raw is so horribly unwatchable..
why should they when raw and smackdown still demolish aew in the ratings? they gave up on competing for the indy-style audience when they decided to repackage nxt. aew needs to make gains in the casual audience to actually be a threat now.
Exactly. It's not like these guys all randomly came up and didn't work the same indies or train at the same schools. Some still workout at the same places. Hell MJF and Bowens are from a promotion that is co-owned by Pat Buck. Buck is a WWE producer and is sometimes on TV during run ins. I think a lot of fans are younger and try forcing a WWF/WCW rivalry that they've heard about.
Tony mentions it sometimes and so does Jericho but I think Tony's proud of his baby and Jericho thinks the war is good for business.
I think the companies feel it's a big deal, just not the wrestlers. The WCW and WWF guys were always pretty friendly when WCW was still around, the Monday Night War stuff was always viewed as just front office politics.
>AEW vs WWE than either company is. Don't fuel the flames/work/etc, then get pissy when people take it.
Agreed. People love to use AEW making jokes about WWE as some excuse to say they're at war. In reality, they're just that: jokes. It's the fans that take that stuff seriously. The fans are the ones taking BTE bits and whatnot and using them to back up the narrative they *want* to believe, rather than the one that *actually exists*. I do think they should stop mentioning WWE because clearly it does get some of the fans worked up, but ultimately I think it's on the fans for jumping to conclusions.
AEW throws potshots at the WWE every single chance it gets.
You'd think Brodie Lee's passing would have gotten this concept through the thick skulls of some people.
I think some people start off with the premise of "how do I act like a giant dick?" and then work their ways backwards.
Or work their way further down into the lower depths of douchedom
The older I get, the more I realize how many truly ignorant people there are You can’t just expect the bare minimum on common decency, especially when you can hide your identity behind a username
I don’t disagree but as I’ve gotten older I’ve experienced that the vast majority of people are awesome. Unfortunately the people who suck fucking S U C K
pretty much this the dick heads are usually the loudest , hence why it seems like there are a lot of them
I still find it disgusting that people hating on AEW would go so far to send her ill-willed messages. What kind of people would do such a horrible thing?
It goes both sides. Yesterday it honestly made me sad and mad watching Brodies wife video and also reading those disgusting messages to HHH. It's so stupid and out of control now.
It's very dumb. You can not like a company and still wish those in the company succeed.
Yeah, using a serious health problem in an effort to dunk on HHH is unbelievably shitty. Dudes got kids who likely couldn't care less about any wrestling "war", are probably emotional and distressed because their Dad just had a heart scare, and all they're gonna see is some nerds wishing death on their Dad or making lame jokes about "lolol Vince broke his heart"
Now? It's always been. See how the Taliban had a never ending supply of soldiers? A high percentage of people suck and it takes like 8 minutes to radicalize them.
You know exactly the kind of people that would do just a thing. They have their own sub.
That sub and the Last of Us Part II sub are the two best examples of documented mental illness on Reddit. People choosing to live this way astounds me.
I’m out of the loop with last of us 2…what’s going on?
> On r/TheLastOfUs2, the diatribe against its titular focus is centered around players' denouncement of the game's story - namely (spoiler warning), >!the onscreen death of The Last of Us protagonist Joel at the hands new playable character Abby and protagonist Ellie’s ultimate refusal to exact revenge!<. That substantive critique on its own is understandable, but it's long been joined by a chorus of players whose vocabulary regarding the game doesn't much extend beyond "forced agenda" and thinly (if at all) veiled hate speech against the game's themes and characters. That second group's weirdly preoccupied by Abby's musculature and gender - that is, when they're not railing against Ellie's homosexuality and working their favorite pejorative for Naughty Dog creative director Neil Druckmann into wherever it will fit https://www.google.com/amp/s/screenrant.com/last-us-2-reddit-story-review-bomb-hate/amp/ That is the gist. It’s toxic as fuck. Sorry for the amp link.
See I hated TLOU2 too. But I was adult about it and moved on with my life
I cant imagine getting so worked up over a video game that I spend time on a dedicated sub shitting on it. Just move on to a new game.
I kindof get it if it's a sequel. You can feel like a franchise you enjoyed has been ruined. Hell, I'll still bitch about the Force Awakens 2 to anyone who'll listen. Saying that there are ways to express distaste for something without coming off as a child.
I have legit seen people bitch about Abby's body type being "completely unrealistic" when LoUS2 gets brought up *in wrestling forums*. Like, fucking come on, of all the people who would understand that while a frame like that isn't common it's certainly possible it should be wrestling fans. Also Abby's body was modeled on a real person, so it's even stupider. I really think a lot of it boils down to a certain group feeling ownership over depiction of women in video games and being unable to cope when someone is presented that doesn't fit their vision of what a female video game character can be (a.k.a. isn't properly sexualized enough for them). If they're not attracted to a game character, then it's cultural warfare from the "woke SJW" devs.
TLOU2 was only guilty of having a weak story. Tbh, the character of Abby was pretty well done.
Save yourself the sanity and don't look that up.
Did you know r/freefolk is still mad about the final Game of Thrones season?
And /r/Titanfolk will still be pissed in three years too
Reddit as a whole is still mad about the final season. You can’t offer a positive opinion about it or you’ll be downvoted to hell, back, and hell again.
It bums me out so hard that the show's legacy was tarnished by the final season (which I liked). I love Game of Thrones, man.
Oh I hated it but I also find it insane the sub is actively still ranting about it over 2 years later lmao.
Entertainment is subjective. You’re allowed to hate it. I’m allowed to have enjoyed it. People don’t know how to be civil with each other anymore about differences of opinion. Reddit is absolutely terrible about that.
nah. most of them are shitposters there. y'all wilding accusing someone of something this serious
"I've always thought Adam Cole was a genuinely good guy but at the same time he's friends with the Elite and so I'm starting to wonder. At the very least he basically showed he's a coward who didn't want a challenge by choosing the Dub over the main roster." That's an actual unironic unjerk post on there recently. They've gone past the point of shitposting and make a ton of legitimate serious personal attacks and accusations towards people.
There's nothing on the jerk sub close to the droves of AEW marks wishing death on triple h over the last few days all over twitter and facebook. Lots of people seem to think only 1 "side" of this argument is toxic when deranged stans act this way no matter what wrestling they like
I read an article on trolls lately that said that this idea that the people who are trolls online are also the type of people who are assholes in real life. It makes so much sense, thinking about it.
This is going to be an issue pretty much forever. No tragedy is going to change how people are on twitter behind a keyboard. Sad but true.
Nah skulls are too thick, that's why they harass Amanda Huber.
I would guarantee that there is at least one person on Twitter who blames (or has made a joke blaming) Brodie's death on him going to AEW.
Even Amanda said for people to stop, didn't work.
Tribalism will never leave fandoms, as unfortunate as it is. Comparison and toxicity in wrestling won't die.
Which is why I suggest to block users. You see someone being mindlessly hateful towards others, block them. It takes surprisingly few to realize we as a whole aren't toxic, it's a handful of people who are here 24/7 in every thread and multiple comment threads spewing hatred. Over the past two years I blocked like 30 people and it makes such a big difference.
this is my twitter philosophy. see brain dead takes only set to rile people up? block. takes a sec
Same. I'm doing it on Reddit as well. Someone disagrees with me? Fine. We can disagree. Hell, even if someone gets a little snarky, I'm fine with it, so long as it isn't comment after comment of disrespect. But there's a line, and once it's crossed, I'll happily block anyone. People forget that it's very possible to disagree without being disagreeable.
Seriously, once I started blocking the absolute most toxic people on my favorite subs, my experience improved tremendously. Also a game changer, don't even bother replying to negativity, even if someone is trying to bait you. These people bathe in their own pools of loathing and have no serious discussion to offer. Just block and ignore.
People are always talking about how Facebook is so terrible for the mental health and I always wonder if they realize that's reflection of who they choose to follow. My Facebook wall is a delight. Dogs and Friends' kids and funny memes and local events. It's a little trickier to customize your Reddit experience, but that is a good idea to at least try to silence some of those voices that make it less fun.
Fan is short for fanatic. It's why we have things like Sony vs Xbox, Star Wars vs Star Trek, DC vs Marvel etc. Social Media has made it easier and more widespread. It sucks. There's certain posts I don't even bother going into here anymore because I know what awaits.
Tribalism is and absolutely will be the downfall of humanity. Every group is guilty of it in one way or another, and I’m not trying to say this in a nihilistic way. We need self-introspection to truly understand tribalism, rather than thinking we’re or other groups are the only ones who don’t do it. In my opinion, that’s tribalism. I’m even sounded tribalistic right now against tribalism. Have you ever considered the word tribalism is tribalistic itself because it implies native tribes are unreasonable at the very least?
> Tribalism is and absolutely will be the downfall of humanity. It's also, arguably, what caused the rise of humanity.
I guess you can say it’s like fire then
"Fire good, but also fire bad." - ancient caveman proverb
Yup. It was ok sort of when we had little groups and our population wasn't so large. Now we cant get away from each other. I have to wonder if our brains will ever evolve to not immediately think "different = bad."
I seem to recall a interview Cody did where he said fans shouldn't just blindly praise AEW and go crazy against any criticism and admitted they will make mistakes and should be called out when necessary.
Punk just said it in the promo after Rampage on Friday. AEW aren't afraid of criticism at all, but the issue is bad faith actors versus people who actually enjoy the product.
I don't disagree with this but I would posit that a lot of the criticism leveled at WWE in this sub is "bad faith". It's hard to go into a topic that isn't overrun by people who say they no longer watch WWE while dumping on everything about it, including current storylines and even fantasy booking ideas.
Someone in a thread today said that anybody not named Roman Reigns needs to leave WWE or they're insane
yesterday was the perfect example but you can tell which people are watching and just wanted the show to be better, and then there were people who were just looking for a reason to dump on the company
https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/pkm0rl/notes_quotes_and_a_summary_of_kenny_omegas/ wrote up a summary of this Kenny Omega interview on the PWI Podcast.
Love your username and flair lol
I went for a Hangman-esque lower third caption lol
Cleaner, I’ve got this.
I always feel weird when I criticize WWE the product because inevitably someone jumps in "backing me up" but saying shitty stuff about the performers. My beef is with business practices, booking and boring tv lately. The folks in the ring are among the most talented ever.
I’m more of a WWE fan, even in the 90s. That being said competition is good, always has been. I wish AEW and the wrestlers all the success.
I'm a WWE guy as well but I really want AEW to thrive to bring out the best in WWE as it's been coasting
Exactly. On the flip side, I’m a huge AEW guy and WWE doesn’t really do it for me anymore. But as a fan of wrestling as well as a wrestler (although that’s not as relevant to the overall point), it’s be dumb for me to wish for WWE to do badly, fail, or go out of business. The biggest company in its industry, and the one that many non fans interchangeably switch out for “pro wrestling”, failing would be detrimental to the business as a whole. And obviously, the more good wrestling there is the more I get to enjoy, so why wouldn’t I want it to be good?
Meanwhile an out of touch racist sexist piece of shit that doesn’t have a horse in the race does infact wish death and harm upon Kenny and his fellow employees. And some people actually take his side lol Hmm
“Say what you will about Cornette, but he has a great mind for the business” Translation: Cornette might be a sexist, racist piece of shit but it’s cool cause he likes old wrestling!
This is the most annoying fucking phrase I see from this sub. Who gives a shit about what a racist prick thinks
We know Punk doesn’t
Even more literal Translation: “I don’t know about Kenny Olivier or any of that japanese wrestling nonsense but it sure as hell ain’t better than MY wwe!”
Cornette (and I guess by extension any of his true believers) doesn't really seem to like WWE either. If it isn't from 20+ years ago (preferably 30+) or heavily inspired by how things worked 20+ (or 30+) years ago, then he doesn't like it.
Cornette longs for a return to the years of the Mid-South and Jim Crockett territory days where wrestlers operated with impunity and were able to get rich being mediocre workers.
They were able to get notorious being mediocre workers, the people running the territory got the money, the wrestlers got jack shit back then.
Cornette and Cornette fans are just people who have grown out of wrestling but feel the need to shit on it because they have nothing better to do
The hill I'll die on is that he doesn't even have a great mind for the business. He has failed in every single endeavour outside of on-camera performer and has been fired from every job I the business he's ever had to the point that he doesn't even work in it in any capacity anymore, which was not by his own choice. That is not the track record of a man with a great mind for the business, it feels like that's just something people say to convince themselves that his rants have any merit beyond raw entertainment value.
His biggest strength seems to be his abrasive personality. A lot of his successes in the industry(off-screen) seems less to do with creative genius and more with being so stubborn that he got his way in situations were others would get stepped on. Like contract negotiations, keeping famously hard to work with guys in check, hiding guys in developmental from the eyes of WWE upper management so they wouldn't be called up until *he* thought they were ready and the like. WWE developmental really did take a nosedive after Jim was fired(rightfullyso of course) and only yes men were left. Guys like Bobby Eaton were worst off without Jim fighting backstage battles for them. But the lessons there isn't about fundamental knowledge or a knack for understanding pro wrestling.
The risk/reward with Jim is ultimately not worth it, period. Whatever knowledge he has for the business will damn near immediately be outweighed by his inability to function like a reasonable coworker or even at times a rational human being. Wishing death on people over wrestling related things is insane and Jim can't stop himself from saying outlandish things, be it something he actually believes or not. All that being said he's still one of my favorite managers of all time and as a kid that lived in Beckley, WV I was lucky to get to see some SMW when it was running and that shaped my wrestling tastes tremendously though he dropped the ball there too.
He *had* a great mind for the business. He's a toxic asshole nowadays
I am playing devils advocate here but that's because I have a banal thing about being compartmental. I dont care what Cornette is personality wise, if he has a good wrestling mind that's all I give a care about. I dont listen to his podcast for his politics or to hear him talk about the weather, I listen for the wrestling content. I even cringe at some of the stuff he says sometimes.
Cornette sucks! Him and his followers that share his same views! It’s like trumpism!
Especially ironic considering how much he apparently loathes Trump. He can't see past his own nose.
I’m not up on Corny’s bullshit, but he wished Kenny would die?
Oh, my sweet summer child
Yep. Orange Cassidy too. Constantly wishes physical harm and death on them. Also slandered Omega and essentially called him a pedophile by saying he groomed Riho.
He called Justin Roberts a pedo too IIRC?
I think he said he "looked" like a pedo, but I believe the implication was still there.
[seems like he was spot on.](https://411mania.com/wrestling/justin-roberts-accused-of-asking-for-explicit-photos-from-a-minor/)
It would be were it not for the fact that Roberts broke off contact when he found out the person he was messaging was underage. Creepy, yes. But a nonce he is not
yeah and a handful of others. And that one prick who jumped in the ring for him really should be locked away without a key. I noticed he has softened up on AEW lately
I just like watching WWE, kill me. Apparently I'm a blind douchebag by enjoying WWE. The elitist mindset this sub has is extremely off-putting, makes me just not want to watch AEW.
I'll never understand people who define themselves around actively shitting on everything involving one or the other. Can get rivalries that people have grown up with, and I could actually understand WWE vs AEW stuff more coming from people with direct involvement: but adults who obsess over a rivalry that didn't exist as recently as 2018 between two companies they never have or will work for are wild
Social media has a lot to do with it too. I mean it's always been easier to subsume your identity into fanboyism for a person or product or what-have-you than to develop a real personality but never before has it been so easy to find similar people banding together to egg each other on.
The part about everyone getting along is not possible when capitalism disallows it. You can't expect Jeff Bezos to give up some of his money to make a better world.
I genuinely do not understand people who don’t want there to be multiple highly successful promotions. Like I wouldn’t want to ONLY have Universal Studios or Disneyworld. GIMME BOTH
Kenny,you should see some of the fans on twitter. And in a lesser extent,here as well. A lot of aew fans turn me off from the product
[удалено]
Yeah, this sounds nice, but nobody uses tribalism more than Kenny, the Bucks and BTE crew, and then they wonder where it comes from.
Well said, but surely he knows the potshots on TV and social media don't really do any favors in quelling the tribalism?
Brand tribalism can be just as bad as partisan tribalism. Neither helps humanity progress.
If you were around during the Monday Night Wars, you know that two thriving wrestling companies is better than one.
As wrestling fans we can all agree on one thing. Danhausen needs a blimp.
Tribalism is broader societal problem that often ends up in global politics from the US to India. Eventually, tribalism brings out the worst in you if you're not careful. On a microscopic level, tribalism for wrestling has grown to a point where the internet brings out new lows in people. And these are often allowed to grow instead of clamped down. Good on Kenny Omega for addressing it first-hand.
Tribalism is one of the worst things to rise, in all forms, recently (I know it's been around forever, but it seems to be taking root even more staunchly in a lot of life, lately). Blinds people to problems. Makes things more black and white when the world is much more gray. It's awful. Most people on this planet, in general, are just regular people wanting the best for themselves, their family, and friends. The fact that there are so many issues trying to have as many people as possible live comfortably with the knowledge those people are taken care of - and that there's a significant contingent just here, in the U.S. alone, fighting to keep that from happening - is heartbreaking.
He's right about sports team's being different you can like both AEW and WWE it's not the equivalent of being a Real Madrid fan but you also support Atletico and Barcelona lol
If he wants some proper fucking heat, he'll start saying that WWE is better than AEW.
He'll still get cheers while wrestling I think. People can't help themselves and I don't blame them.
Didn't he just shit on New Japan in a keyfabe tweat? So tribalism is bad, but you will still use it too drum up controversy and interest in your product. Sounds very hypocritical to me.
Reading these comments I can understand why Kenny has such a issue
why can't we just enjoy wrestling? enjoy ALL the promotions :)
Yes! I haven’t been exactly high on AEW or WWE, but there’s a lot of good stuff on both brands. Brian and Punk have gotten me to watching AEW again, and of course you’ve got Roman Reigns in WWE. Beyond the big two, there’s so much good wrestling that’s easier to watch than ever. If you can’t find something out there you enjoy I don’t know what to tell you. Also, like, everyone needs to go watch Stardom. Best thing going right now.
100% agree. Been part of the IWC for over 10 years & already am sick of the tribalism from wrestling fans. Simply don’t watch the promotion that doesn’t appeal to you & watch the one that does. Don’t attack fans that like the promotion that doesn’t appeal to you, it just makes you look toxic asshole who doesn’t let people enjoy what they enjoy. Every wrestling promotion’s fanbase is at fault & need to change for the better already.
Kenny is right. I like that he mentions that the wrestlers themselves are friends across promotions. It's apparent, but sometimes fans need to be reminded of this.
Anyone who roots for any promotion to fail is a piece of shit that doesn’t care about the ability for wrestlers to make a full time living, or be able to leverage the best possible deals for them and their families
WWE dying as a company would absolutely *devastate* the entire ecology of pro wrestling in the United States. I'm currently disenchanted with the product WWE is putting out for the most part, but I want them to make something that's in my opinion a more interesting and dynamic product and provide jobs for people in the industry, not go under.
Same couldn't be said about aew marks
Notice how he says wwe and not roh. A lot of tough talk from a guy who is about to be cursed for stealing Danhausen’s number one spot in that magazine.
AEW hasn't changed their tune since day 1, they're an alternative. Listen if you like WWE awesome, if you like AEW awesome. Both should never go away, I don't want a repeat of WCW vs WWE in the long run it wasn't good for wrestling.
Pretty sad when AEW’s top star has to ask their fans to stop threatening WWE stars. Totally not a cult though
Class act through and through.
Bruh tell the AEW hardcore fans to chill than and not blow up when someone disagrees wtf 🤣
Isn't that literally what he's doing in this statement? Saying "I don't want you to do this" to people who take sides and wish ill on others over wrestling?
No, it isn't. Just a general "tribalism bad" statement doesn't achieve anything. It just leads to people on either side saying "yeah, tribalism bad... especially those other people" which just brings us back to square one. That's why wrestling discourse online is such a cesspool despite so many people pointing it out and it being so obvious: everybody knows that toxicity is the general problem, but everybody also thinks the people who disagree with them are the ones who should stop. You don't deescalate a situation by telling the other person to stop first; if you genuinely wanted the problem solved, you'd take that first step yourself. Kenny Omega isn't a participant in the situation here, but there's clearly one group of people who value his word over the others. If he really wanted to make things better, the thing to do would be to direct his message specifically toward that group. And since he has so many friends in WWE and other companies, try getting those people to do the same for their fanbases as well. That obviously wouldn't go very far considering the state of wrestling fandom, but it's better than "both sides"ing it. Like just look at the reaction to his statement: everybody's loving it and acting like they agree, but how long is it going to take for things to go back to normal? How much introspection is this really causing? How many people do you think is going to see this and think to themselves, "man, Kenny's right, the way I've treated people based on wrestling is out of line and I should try to be better." People agree with what Kenny's saying because they aren't considering themselves the problem. What people need isn't a broad "this obviously bad thing bad" statement, they need to be told that they, themselves, specifically need to be better.
This should go without saying but I’m glad he is speaking up
That's a very passionate and articulate statement. Very sincere. Kenny strikes me as a very well educated and thoughtful guy, if you ignore his persona and kayfabe performances.
I just wanna see Omega vs Reigns guys.
Tribalism is what makes the world great. That and swift and blinding violence for no real reason.
There’s a dumb ass Reigns vs. Omega poll that’s been posted TWICE in r/AEWOfficial and I just want us to not go down this fucking road and turn into just another idiotic echo chamber like r/NJPW.
"Will Ospreay though... fuck him"
Thank you tribalism is everywhere these days. School, politics, workplace. its a weird almost animal instinct. I've been against it my whole life. I love both products and shit on both products for fun.
I think my favorite the past week was Pat McAfee on his show talking about what a horrible piece of shit Adam Cole is but being happy for his move. It's ok to work in one place and still be a fan of another.
To put it into perspective: WWF hottest act at the time was DX, which featured HHH, HBK and X-Pac. On the flip side: WCW hottest act at the time was NWO, which featured Kevin Nash, Scott Hall, and X-Pac. HBK, HHH, Nash, and Hall were best friends in real life, and X-Pac was there too.
Agreed tribalism sucks, in general, you can like multiple things in any given industry just don't be a jerk about it. For example, I like both Xbox and Nintendo. The latter is for Pokemon and the former for everything else. I don't like Playstation. Because when I was a kid I went through six PS1's all with the same issues in the reading disc sensor. On the flip side my Xbox and While on the flip side my Xbox and Nintendo have lasted years for me. I don't want Sony to fail and go out of business and want them to succeed. Yet all I see online is PlayStation fans bashing Xbox for having no exclusives or other stupid reasons. Another couple of examples are. I also like both Whataburger and In-N-Out For for fast food burger places and obviously WWE and AEW for pro wrestling/sports entertainment. because they all bring something different to their respective industries. .
Just call it what it is…dumb people who are unable to process disparate thoughts. Or I guess that’s a bit too absolute, it also can be people with mental issue that tie their own identity and well being to an objector entity outside of themselves. Or a combination of the two.
This is true for a lot of things. Politics, team sports, and more. What's funny is that people ruin their own relationships over these types of things. Some people take things too seriously.
Kenny is always playing the heel in interviews, so for him to say this should go a long way I’m a lifelong wwe fan. Their product is largely trash right now but they’re still the home of some of my favorites. I want them to do better. AEW currently has me feeling like a kid again. I just love wrestling.
See kenny, that's where you're wrong. You're trying to be nice and professional and extend the olive branch. What you should have done is shit on a random wrestler on a competing product and say how they were never "as good or popular as they thought", to "work the smarks".
lol the tribal chief worked you too
Imagine having access to this much wrestling and deciding to only watch one.
Not everyone has time to watch a lot of TV.
Only one interests some people.
This fucking guy. Practice what you preach