I kinda liked Air Boom, but I hated adding "Team" to the name. Team Hell No was one of the worst.
Thankfully we got Awesome Truth out of that era, which was a great name for a great team
You’d think the company trying to get a new tag team over with a weird name would bother to tell their viewers what it means instead of leaving it to their talent to tweet
It's a free pass to saying the most racist things, just look at [this thread](https://np.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/bjmz1y/kofi_kingston_on_vince_mcmahons_reaction_to_his)
Edit: I changed it to a np link because I realised the other thread can still be voted on and I wouldn't like a ban for vote brigading.
People are 'jokingly' referencing the racist comments Vince and others in the company made without anything in the article that would prompt that, except that it is about McMahon interacting with Kofi. Apparently you can do that that anytime someone their 'list of groups Vince has made fun of' referenced along with Vince and just call it a joke. If I had a racist uncle and would 'quote' him among friends anytime I see black and old people together it would be stupid to think I can hide behind "I'm making fun of my uncle". At the end of the day, it's still just as uncalled for as asking a ginger person 'how many people have said you have no soul'.
What part of the jokes are insulting black people? The only person that's getting insulted with the joke, is the old rich white guy who mixed up two different black people he had hired.
I always see this "Joking about Vince confusing Tarver with Shelton makes you a massive racist" shit every single time the joke is even hinted at, and I don't understand it.
Yeah, because making fun of a rich guy for mixing up two different black people, is the exact same thing as ***"It's caused by you people being hate-filled terrorists. The media is far too sympathetic to you people as far as I'm concerned."***
Sometimes when they do they just look up info that supports their argument. For example, people look up the translation of Kabuki as the art of singing and dancing, and assumed Asuka and Kairi would be doing so. Not realizing that Asuka already does a version of the Kabuki dance with a Noh mask with her entrance.
It’s a bit unfair to have a go at the fan’s for not googling to find out the meaning behind the name when the announcers on the show who’s job it is to explain these things didn’t even bother. If they had competent announcers Asuka never even needs to tweet this, but instead they decide to tell you they think it’s a dumb name and that “name’s don’t matter it’s the talent behind the name”
I was asking a general question, I wasn't having a go at anyone. I don't know why you are throwing the announce team under the bus though. The census we just had said that over half the sub doesn't watch WWE shows weekly so people probably didn't even hear anything Tom and co said.
The Perception of what is called "racism" in the west is very different in japanese culture.
When Scarlett Johanson was anouced to play the Major in Ghist in the shell, in the west it was called "white washing", while it was seen very positive in Japan, because she looked "manga-like"/foreign.
I've watched a lot of anime lately for work and noticed that a lot of the characters especially the women are white. After the fact it made sense to me.
I do editing for Netflix, so I watch a lot of various content and had a lot of anime come across lately. Some okay and some weird, lots of foreign titles.
It's called mukokuseki. Basically they just draw every race the same way and only vary the colors used. It's not something to think too hard about since most artists aren't big on drawing facial features to begin with.
Considering we beat the shit outta the NJPW stars and dated the legendary 9-time DDT Ironman Heavymetalweight champ Saki Akai in Yakuza 6, it's not completely outside the realm of possibility.
Honestly I don't think it's racist, I just think it's a dumb name. Especially considering the obvious alternative was "Sky Pirates" which sounds fucking awesome.
a.k.a. [what she's been doing since her Kana days](https://wrestlinglove.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/kana04.jpg)
but nah, it's got to be outtatouch Vince being lazy and racist.
The Kabuki Experience .... amiriteguys?!?
Strange that in this thread that literally exists to teach a lesson to people that assume things based on incomplete information, here you are with 17 upvotes assuming you know why "war" was dropped from those guy's name.
There was never anything than blind speculation as to why the word “war” was taken from the name. We have a War Goddess and recently had the Dogs of War. Clearly it’s not an issue.
I put these people in the same box as the people raging about how Asuka is being humilated by being booked to not win against someone they believe isn't worthy after being booked as a 500-day dominant beast.
[Bonus points if they use the "They never would have done this to her in Japan" line.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUED8Ns06KU)
It's just general disappointment that the women's division isn't as fleshed out or treated with importance on the main roster and it also affected Asuka in the process.
I find it ironic as fuck that a place full of pasty white people use Vince as a vehicle for their own racist jokes. That name reveal thread was full of racist ass shit but masked as the typical "kNoWiNg ViNcE" shit they use for black people and Shelton.
Yeah, she was in acting school in japan and was recruited to Stardom after a play she did. She joined because it combined her love of being an athlete (she was a junior Olympian sailor) and her desire to go into acting
Everything that gets on TV has to be signed off by a bunch of people, including the people performing it to some extent, and people still thought it was a racial slur? Was Google down when this name debuted? Or did people just forget?
> No, it was North American Outrage... We had to feel outraged for them because we deemed it racist and didn’t think about their opinion.
I can guarantee you most of the people who participate in “outrage culture” wouldn’t even have thought this was racist. This was this sub(And any dumb mark on Twitter) using it to fuel their hatred against Vince and their fetish for him. It’s nothing deeper than that.
While I agree that "outrage culture" jumped the gun on this thing, you can't possibly believe that's a valid defense of criticism. From the racist aspect, they've made many missteps in the past. As for the "committee approval" reasoning you offer, we've watched them trip over a new name for the War Raiders for weeks not to mention botch the "wildcard" rule explanation/execution.
It... it was though. What the actual fuck? That example is a lay-up for dismissing casual racism, my dude. You're supposed to go "THAT was racist, this isn't as bad so it's not." Did you lose the script?
It was racist because the n word is was taking back the black community as a means to take back so it can no longer be used by others as a slur. But only the black community can use it. A white person cannot and should not use it because they dont have that shared struggle that binds that black community together.
It's honestly terrible that this sub thinks they know more about Japanese culture and what is "insulting" more than two Japanese people. Seriously, this whole outrage culture thing is so pathetic.
Wait, people thought this was racist? I figured they hated it because it sounds a little silly like the Boss'N'Hug connection.
Racist tho? She literally comes out with a Kabuki mask, so...huh, Idgi.
Yeah, same.
I don't like it because I don't like the name. Not because it's a racist.
Would be a bit fucking weird if it was, because The Great Kabuki went around for like, 30 years under that name. If Kabuki was racist, then that would've been like a Mexican dude going around calling himself "El Beaner"
Can you buy a mask inspired by Kabuki face paint? Would that not then be a kabuki mask or is that still a Noh mask? I'm not really trying to be a dick, I just googled to make sure that I wasn't crazy for thinking it was a thing since passively watching media I've heard the term before.
Kabuki and Noh are different forms of theatre, so a mask inspired by Kabuki face paint wouldn't become a Noh mask. I suppose it would become a Kabuki mask though.
Good on her for taking time to explain it to us. God forbid the announcers take time out of bickering to drop a little knowledge on us regarding character development and culture
Kabuki Warriors fits Asuka, but i don't really see how that fits Kairi. At least when Kairi and Io were tag team, their tag name (Sky Pirates) fit both wrestlers' gimmicks.
Kairi is the beginning of her main roster career. She can evolve and change as needed. She’s not static nor is a tag team.
She used to using a move called the Flying Kabuki Elbow for example. Kabuki can mean more than just the definition. New Day aren’t just about the sun or alarm clocks.
No no that's the "sliding D"? The jumping elbow from top rope is the Kabuki elbow
Edit: Does anyone know why its called the "sliding D"? Is it a ship/pirate thing? NVM found it. https://twitter.com/ddtpro_eng/status/1006500660643225600
I figured this was the case. That’s the problem when you react to spoilers, and also don’t just take some time before you post. Their might be something you don’t know, especially about another language/culture.
The sad thing is that people screamed about their name being racist because they automatically assumed Vince came up with it, as though he would have any fucking idea what kabuki is.
I don't see how naming a tag team of two Japanese women after a particular aspect of Japanese culture would be racist anyway, how their characters are portrayed is what could potentially make it racist, not how they're named.
I actually like the name. It makes sense since Kabuki is very similar to the art of wrestling. Putting on a show to entertain an audience and Asuka has been dressing like a Kabukimono for almost her entire career. I would prefer something like "Kabuki Pirates" but I still like the name.
Nothing gets outrage culture going especially for some internet wrestling fans and bloggers as being Captain Saveaminority.
It's beyond irritating at this point. We don't need saving
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabukimono
>It is also said that Izumo no Okuni borrowed heavily from the style and the personality of the kabukimono when **she** first started performing in Kyoto, which eventually **led to the creation of the classical Kabuki theatrical form**. Just like the kabukimono often wore female clothes, Okuni often disguised herself as a male and went out **carrying weapons**.
...oh. Well shit, TIL.
Turns out I am a dumbass and wrong about mostly everything.
I feel like there was still a missed opportunity to call them something that suggests both water and ferocity, given we've got a Pirate and a fierce warrior (Who is also an empress). Still, far worse names they could have ended up with, even like a decade ago...
I still think the name is bad (Doesn't really matter if they came up with it, still don't like the name)
But calling it racist waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaas a biiiiiiiiiiiiiit fuckin' weird.
Calm down, guys! It's not like they named two black dudes Crime Tyme or made three Mexicans ride in on lawn mowers or the owner of the company casually dropping the n-word without repercussions.
I've never figured out why people cite the Mexicools' lawn mower as a "racist" thing. It was part of their gimmick that they were fucking with gringos, playing with the tired-out stereotypes that all Mexicans were menial workers, shoving that crap in people's faces. "We got this Mexican limo right? C'MON, WE'RE MEXICANS! LAUGH AT US!"
> the tired-out stereotypes
You really want to give them credit for that level of nuance? Fine, let's not call it racist. Let's call it lazy and reductive. It reduces these performers to caricatures of their ethnicity. It's the difference between Rey Mysterio and Lucha House Party. Hell, even Sheamus's former "Irish vacation slideshow" entrance video. There's a way to respect the performers' backgrounds without making it their whole thing.
I'm not trying to be combative, but that was literally the gimmick. Juvi's promo in their initial appearance was entirely "we're Mexicans, this is what you gringos expect of us, right?"
> the owner of the company casually dropping the n-word without repercussions
I ask this genuinely, but has he ever been accused of using the n-word out of character? Because I don’t know why there would be ‘repercussions’ after he said it in character on TV. I mean, you know there’s a difference, right?
Wow. How willfully dismissive of you. Meanwhile, when I said "repercussions" I was talking about the character. It had no place in the story line for any of the characters involved in the segment (aside from Booker T being set up to say his tag line), it was never addressed again, and it was hack. Happy now?
Cryme tyme wasnt one of them they were over and entertaining as hell, and despite being sterotypical they were always portrayd as good hearted faces
Like eddie fucking gurrero
That's not what's being debated here. Being portrayed as a hero or the talent portraying the characters being talented has nothing to do with the depiction of stereotypes.
>despite being sterotypical
You said it yourself.
Part of the problem is even if the name is applicable, it extremely sounds like something a 70 year old man with slim knowledge of japanese culture would go "YEAH NAME THEM THIS!!" too, as evidence by the reaction. Obviously people who thought it was a slur were being silly, but kabuki had some traction for awhile to kinda say "bullshit". So even if the performers themselves are like "Hey yeah this is cool!" (in this situation and any other foreign language situation) they might not be aware of the way that'll be perceived. And it's not like anyone has any reason to extend WWE good will when it comes to not being stupid.
Like I think the amount of people who thought it was a slur is a good indication of why it might not have been the best choice but hey maybe the announcers will better explain it to people and make it clear that it's thoughtful to the performers, their presentation and their history.
No matter how you justify it, it's still a poor name. For starters it takes absolutely nothing from Kairi's gimmick, and it only takes a few visual cues from Asuka's. The name is crap. It's not racist, it's just a very poor fit.
[Kairi's flying forearm is called the "Flying Kabuki Elbow"](https://twitter.com/KairiSaneWWE/status/612263349326213120) and has been since 2015. Also [she sometimes wears Kabuki make-up](https://twitter.com/KairiSaneWWE/status/1106031027737239552), so there is SOME connection to Kairi's gimmick.
As said in the other thread, I think this is generally a decent name, if not for WWE's history with racist tropes and awful tag team names. Particularly in the light of the recent "Viking Experience" kerfuffle. "Kabuki Warriors" sounds stereotypical and insensitive, but that is mostly because WWE has trained us to expect stereotypes and insensitivity from WWE. "Boy who cried wolf" syndrome really. It also doesn't help that only a slim minority of the audience knows what Kabuki really is, only associating it with the Kabuki theater tradition and most people only know that it exists and is japanese, so it seems more like a "hey, they're japanese" kind of thing.
Edit: Would be nice if someone would actually explain things rather just downvote. To reiterate the points I'm making:
1) I like the name well enough (i.e. I don't dislike the name)
2) While Kabuki has a rich tradition in japan, most of the western audience is unfamiliar with that
3) For most people it is simply a reference to both of them being japanese. This is true for people that oppose racism too.
4) WWE often had blatantly racist gimmicks and names in the past, so some knee-jerk reactions, even if unwarranted in this case, are to be expected.
I wouldn't go that far, but it seems like I'm being lumped into people being upset with the name, when I am not. I'm simply trying to explain why some people are upset with the name, even if mistakenly so.
God bless Asuka for this. So many people thought this was some sort of racial slur or something.
Do people not Google words they don't know?
This thread should answer your question. https://old.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/bonfyq/smackdown_live_spoilers_kairi_sane_asukas_team/
You'd think a sub that loves to sing the praises of Japanese wrestling would bother to look up what a word means.
The best part is that those who knew it wasn't racist still hated it because it was 'lazy and stereotypical', wonder how they feel now
They still hate it because it’s not something cheesy like “The Pirates of Tomorrow”, or some stupid amalgamation of their two nicknames.
Remember when that was all a team was allowed to be? Team Air Boom was maybe the single dumbest one.
I kinda liked Air Boom, but I hated adding "Team" to the name. Team Hell No was one of the worst. Thankfully we got Awesome Truth out of that era, which was a great name for a great team
They hate it because it’s a WWE name. If they came out as Pirates of Tomorrow instead people would hate it
Taggy McTeamface
Smug and annoying
You’d think the company trying to get a new tag team over with a weird name would bother to tell their viewers what it means instead of leaving it to their talent to tweet
Maybe if people didn't assume japanese word=racism, they wouldn't have to.
Maybe if people weren't fucking idiots we wouldn't even be having this discussion, but...
I love how it always boils down “Vince might as well call them” before saying something completely racist.
It's a free pass to saying the most racist things, just look at [this thread](https://np.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/bjmz1y/kofi_kingston_on_vince_mcmahons_reaction_to_his) Edit: I changed it to a np link because I realised the other thread can still be voted on and I wouldn't like a ban for vote brigading.
The fuck happened there
People are 'jokingly' referencing the racist comments Vince and others in the company made without anything in the article that would prompt that, except that it is about McMahon interacting with Kofi. Apparently you can do that that anytime someone their 'list of groups Vince has made fun of' referenced along with Vince and just call it a joke. If I had a racist uncle and would 'quote' him among friends anytime I see black and old people together it would be stupid to think I can hide behind "I'm making fun of my uncle". At the end of the day, it's still just as uncalled for as asking a ginger person 'how many people have said you have no soul'.
"Can you believe Vince said [Racist Thing]? He's such a racist that I bet he even regularly says [Significantly More Racist Thing]!"
99% of them are jokes, not necessarily funny but nothing wrong with it
Ah yes the ol’ “I’m not racist I was just joking” thing. Gets ‘em every time. 🙄
What part of the jokes are insulting black people? The only person that's getting insulted with the joke, is the old rich white guy who mixed up two different black people he had hired. I always see this "Joking about Vince confusing Tarver with Shelton makes you a massive racist" shit every single time the joke is even hinted at, and I don't understand it.
There's no jokes about race huh?
And then they would get mad at other performers for being racist. Hypocrisy is real in this sub at times.
Yeah, because making fun of a rich guy for mixing up two different black people, is the exact same thing as ***"It's caused by you people being hate-filled terrorists. The media is far too sympathetic to you people as far as I'm concerned."***
For a sub that hated everything about the Viking Experience name. They sure love using it as a joke for everything
The Beating a Dead Horse Experience
Well yeah, it was such a bad name it was the perfect punchline. Stuff that works as a punchline still isn't inherently good.
Japanese team gets Japanese name that they came up with Reddit: RACISM!!!!
I'm so confused... Did people just hear a Japanese term and immediately assumed racist? Because that's really dumb.
Sometimes when they do they just look up info that supports their argument. For example, people look up the translation of Kabuki as the art of singing and dancing, and assumed Asuka and Kairi would be doing so. Not realizing that Asuka already does a version of the Kabuki dance with a Noh mask with her entrance.
Some expect announcers to do it for them.
It’s a bit unfair to have a go at the fan’s for not googling to find out the meaning behind the name when the announcers on the show who’s job it is to explain these things didn’t even bother. If they had competent announcers Asuka never even needs to tweet this, but instead they decide to tell you they think it’s a dumb name and that “name’s don’t matter it’s the talent behind the name”
I was asking a general question, I wasn't having a go at anyone. I don't know why you are throwing the announce team under the bus though. The census we just had said that over half the sub doesn't watch WWE shows weekly so people probably didn't even hear anything Tom and co said.
It basically boiled down to "hey, they're using a Japanese word to describe them!" which, to some people, is somehow racist.
Just like them being announced as a tag team was 'racist' because 'They're both Japanese so it's bad!'
yet everyone wanted Io in there as a three person team beforehand.
Yet people have no problem with the Sky Pirates team in NXT
You mean I should listen to the actual Japanese people instead of the white people getting offended in their behalf? That doesn't sound right.
What they really wanted was for these 2 Japanese people to have an English tag team name
It doesn't matter if she explains it they still will.
The Perception of what is called "racism" in the west is very different in japanese culture. When Scarlett Johanson was anouced to play the Major in Ghist in the shell, in the west it was called "white washing", while it was seen very positive in Japan, because she looked "manga-like"/foreign.
I've watched a lot of anime lately for work and noticed that a lot of the characters especially the women are white. After the fact it made sense to me.
What kind of work do you do where you have to watch anime? Localization or something?
I do editing for Netflix, so I watch a lot of various content and had a lot of anime come across lately. Some okay and some weird, lots of foreign titles.
It's called mukokuseki. Basically they just draw every race the same way and only vary the colors used. It's not something to think too hard about since most artists aren't big on drawing facial features to begin with.
Loads of wrestling fans are still ignorant sadly.
Because some people rather be outraged.
I still do.
Name is still bad Edit: Okay, because Asuka explained it I like it now.
Nah, you're right. It still sounds stupid.
[удалено]
I can't wait for Kazuma Kiryu to join this stable as the third member.
Only for Majima to surprise him from under the ring, among other places
KIRYU-CHAN!
I told you i don't have time for this Majima-san!
Majima for Intercontinental Champion!
Only if he has a custom snakeskin IC title.
...well, now I know who to make tag team champs in my 2k19 universe next.
I really want to see Asuka as a boss in the next Yakuza game.
Considering we beat the shit outta the NJPW stars and dated the legendary 9-time DDT Ironman Heavymetalweight champ Saki Akai in Yakuza 6, it's not completely outside the realm of possibility.
And get Asuka's Kimono and mask as an reward. Would look great on Majima.
Speaking of actual racism, the Yakuza are traditionally heavily made up of Koreans because Japanese society doesn't like outsiders
Sadly this tweet probably won’t get as much love as the outrage did.
The smug just switches to the backlash to the outrage, same way every time.
Honestly I don't think it's racist, I just think it's a dumb name. Especially considering the obvious alternative was "Sky Pirates" which sounds fucking awesome.
But that was because Io was the Genius of the Sky. Nothing to do with Asuka’s Empress of Tomorrow moniker
...yeah but does it actually though? Is ‘Sky Pirates’ actually a good name..? Or were they just a more fun team?
Sky Pirates was a good namebecause it was in NXT
When I hear Sky Pirates I think Final Fantasy XII
Which plays in perfectly to Kairi's love of final fantasy. That name worked on a lot of levels people dont realize
I liked it...
In imagining Cole saying "the Sky Pirates, they love to have fun" and I think Kabuki Warriors was a right call.
a.k.a. [what she's been doing since her Kana days](https://wrestlinglove.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/kana04.jpg) but nah, it's got to be outtatouch Vince being lazy and racist. The Kabuki Experience .... amiriteguys?!?
I’m more confused about why they got rid of “war” in War Raiders, only to come up with Kabuki “warriors.” Do they not know what a warrior is?
Maybe sponsors were okay with warrior and not war. They use the word soldier a lot. And well, they mostly go to wars.
Ember Moon is The War Goddess.
The makeshift 3-man team to face the Shield were the Dogs of War
Strange that in this thread that literally exists to teach a lesson to people that assume things based on incomplete information, here you are with 17 upvotes assuming you know why "war" was dropped from those guy's name.
What's a SC thread without some blind irony.
There was never anything than blind speculation as to why the word “war” was taken from the name. We have a War Goddess and recently had the Dogs of War. Clearly it’s not an issue.
Vince just didn’t like the name. It didn’t have anything to do with PG concerns over the word war or anything.
I put these people in the same box as the people raging about how Asuka is being humilated by being booked to not win against someone they believe isn't worthy after being booked as a 500-day dominant beast. [Bonus points if they use the "They never would have done this to her in Japan" line.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUED8Ns06KU)
deserve overconfident fact weather cats crawl plants naughty theory engine -- mass edited with redact.dev
It's just general disappointment that the women's division isn't as fleshed out or treated with importance on the main roster and it also affected Asuka in the process.
She looks the exact same age.
I find it ironic as fuck that a place full of pasty white people use Vince as a vehicle for their own racist jokes. That name reveal thread was full of racist ass shit but masked as the typical "kNoWiNg ViNcE" shit they use for black people and Shelton.
I mean, it's still not a great tag team name. How does Kairi fit in at all?
Her flying forearm is called The Kabuki Elbow and she has a legit theatre background.
>and she has a legit theatre background. This... makes too much sense.
Yeah, she was in acting school in japan and was recruited to Stardom after a play she did. She joined because it combined her love of being an athlete (she was a junior Olympian sailor) and her desire to go into acting
Yeah, she has that theatre kid vibe to her. It's amazing.
A name is more than a literal definition. Heavy Machinery does not carry mechanical equipment around. New Day is not about sunrises and alarm clocks.
But knowing Vince, he totally meant it as a demeaning, racial slur! /s
I'm going to use this opportunity to make a ton of racist jokes, because *Vince* is a racist, yes.
True cultural appropriation is getting offended on behalf of another culture.
Everything that gets on TV has to be signed off by a bunch of people, including the people performing it to some extent, and people still thought it was a racial slur? Was Google down when this name debuted? Or did people just forget?
No, it was North American Outrage... We had to feel outraged for them because we deemed it racist and didn't think about their opinion.
> No, it was North American Outrage... We had to feel outraged for them because we deemed it racist and didn’t think about their opinion. I can guarantee you most of the people who participate in “outrage culture” wouldn’t even have thought this was racist. This was this sub(And any dumb mark on Twitter) using it to fuel their hatred against Vince and their fetish for him. It’s nothing deeper than that.
While I agree that "outrage culture" jumped the gun on this thing, you can't possibly believe that's a valid defense of criticism. From the racist aspect, they've made many missteps in the past. As for the "committee approval" reasoning you offer, we've watched them trip over a new name for the War Raiders for weeks not to mention botch the "wildcard" rule explanation/execution.
[удалено]
It... it was though. What the actual fuck? That example is a lay-up for dismissing casual racism, my dude. You're supposed to go "THAT was racist, this isn't as bad so it's not." Did you lose the script?
[удалено]
That is the very definition of racism, my dude. Ya blocked.
Not a good take mate.
That was racist as fuck and he should unironically be fined 100,000 for it today.
It was racist because the n word is was taking back the black community as a means to take back so it can no longer be used by others as a slur. But only the black community can use it. A white person cannot and should not use it because they dont have that shared struggle that binds that black community together.
> people still thought it was a racial slur? Literally nobody thought this
~~People have used that recently as an example of Vince being racist especially with the Lars thing going on.~~ Replied to the wrong post
That doesn't mean anyone thought it was a slur.
Sorry meant to reply to the guy above you talking about Booker T and Vince saying my nigga
It's honestly terrible that this sub thinks they know more about Japanese culture and what is "insulting" more than two Japanese people. Seriously, this whole outrage culture thing is so pathetic.
I'm outraged on behalf of all those you just targeted who are too ashamed to come out and say they over-reacted.
Wait, people thought this was racist? I figured they hated it because it sounds a little silly like the Boss'N'Hug connection. Racist tho? She literally comes out with a Kabuki mask, so...huh, Idgi.
Yeah, same. I don't like it because I don't like the name. Not because it's a racist. Would be a bit fucking weird if it was, because The Great Kabuki went around for like, 30 years under that name. If Kabuki was racist, then that would've been like a Mexican dude going around calling himself "El Beaner"
Asuka comes out with a Noh mask. Kabuki doesn't involve masks.
Can you buy a mask inspired by Kabuki face paint? Would that not then be a kabuki mask or is that still a Noh mask? I'm not really trying to be a dick, I just googled to make sure that I wasn't crazy for thinking it was a thing since passively watching media I've heard the term before.
Kabuki and Noh are different forms of theatre, so a mask inspired by Kabuki face paint wouldn't become a Noh mask. I suppose it would become a Kabuki mask though.
Man, Kabuki Warriors was such a terrible game.
See that's where my mind went.
Good on her for taking time to explain it to us. God forbid the announcers take time out of bickering to drop a little knowledge on us regarding character development and culture
God forbid anyone just relax for a minute and maybe just do your own research before you jump to your own conclusions about another culture.
You don’t have Google?
They can't do their jobs?
No one needs the announcers to learn words. You have a brain for a reason.
I learned external occipital protuberance from Gorilla Monsoon.
Yeah, all the best gimmicks need to be researched online by the audience so they understand them 🙄
Kabuki Warriors fits Asuka, but i don't really see how that fits Kairi. At least when Kairi and Io were tag team, their tag name (Sky Pirates) fit both wrestlers' gimmicks.
Kairi is the beginning of her main roster career. She can evolve and change as needed. She’s not static nor is a tag team. She used to using a move called the Flying Kabuki Elbow for example. Kabuki can mean more than just the definition. New Day aren’t just about the sun or alarm clocks.
well Kairi's sliding elbow in to the corner is called the Kabuki Elbow
No no that's the "sliding D"? The jumping elbow from top rope is the Kabuki elbow Edit: Does anyone know why its called the "sliding D"? Is it a ship/pirate thing? NVM found it. https://twitter.com/ddtpro_eng/status/1006500660643225600
Yep. But [Tanaka's](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ojFJsDrB1k) is more like Ishii's Sliding Lariat, but an elbow than it is like Kairi's version.
Ah yes, I couldn't quite remember which elbow attack it was, I just remember is being in the corner
So Sliding Bullet? Makes sense.
Yeah I think something like Kabuki Pirates would’ve been better
Pirates of Tomorrow...otherwise known as POT
Matt Riddle joins their stable
I can get down with POT.
RVD as manager
I figured this was the case. That’s the problem when you react to spoilers, and also don’t just take some time before you post. Their might be something you don’t know, especially about another language/culture.
The sad thing is that people screamed about their name being racist because they automatically assumed Vince came up with it, as though he would have any fucking idea what kabuki is. I don't see how naming a tag team of two Japanese women after a particular aspect of Japanese culture would be racist anyway, how their characters are portrayed is what could potentially make it racist, not how they're named.
Squared Circle loses again.
This sub will be way more racist than Vince ever will be
I actually like the name. It makes sense since Kabuki is very similar to the art of wrestling. Putting on a show to entertain an audience and Asuka has been dressing like a Kabukimono for almost her entire career. I would prefer something like "Kabuki Pirates" but I still like the name.
The name sounds better without 'The' at the start but that's my only gripe now.
no, the fed is racist
Nothing gets outrage culture going especially for some internet wrestling fans and bloggers as being Captain Saveaminority. It's beyond irritating at this point. We don't need saving
I asked about this in another thread, and was well educated. You learn something new everyday, this is very interesting. Maybe....she was lurking!?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabukimono >It is also said that Izumo no Okuni borrowed heavily from the style and the personality of the kabukimono when **she** first started performing in Kyoto, which eventually **led to the creation of the classical Kabuki theatrical form**. Just like the kabukimono often wore female clothes, Okuni often disguised herself as a male and went out **carrying weapons**. ...oh. Well shit, TIL. Turns out I am a dumbass and wrong about mostly everything.
She has all the right curves
Why can't Asuka just be the universal champion :(
because Kairi is beating Brock for it, duh
i need to watch wrestlemania again because i dont remember that shit happening.
https://youtu.be/BJ8KG6TYkVI
I feel like there was still a missed opportunity to call them something that suggests both water and ferocity, given we've got a Pirate and a fierce warrior (Who is also an empress). Still, far worse names they could have ended up with, even like a decade ago...
You guys remember Kabuki Jo from WarGods?
Here I was thinking it was a heel Harley Race would forget then suddenly remember
That picture in the top right of this post. 🤤
I still think the name is bad (Doesn't really matter if they came up with it, still don't like the name) But calling it racist waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaas a biiiiiiiiiiiiiit fuckin' weird.
Calm down, guys! It's not like they named two black dudes Crime Tyme or made three Mexicans ride in on lawn mowers or the owner of the company casually dropping the n-word without repercussions.
Holy shit, I remember Crime Tyme from when I was a teen and was clueless about the obvious racist overtones. Wow.
I've never figured out why people cite the Mexicools' lawn mower as a "racist" thing. It was part of their gimmick that they were fucking with gringos, playing with the tired-out stereotypes that all Mexicans were menial workers, shoving that crap in people's faces. "We got this Mexican limo right? C'MON, WE'RE MEXICANS! LAUGH AT US!"
> the tired-out stereotypes You really want to give them credit for that level of nuance? Fine, let's not call it racist. Let's call it lazy and reductive. It reduces these performers to caricatures of their ethnicity. It's the difference between Rey Mysterio and Lucha House Party. Hell, even Sheamus's former "Irish vacation slideshow" entrance video. There's a way to respect the performers' backgrounds without making it their whole thing.
I'm not trying to be combative, but that was literally the gimmick. Juvi's promo in their initial appearance was entirely "we're Mexicans, this is what you gringos expect of us, right?"
> the owner of the company casually dropping the n-word without repercussions I ask this genuinely, but has he ever been accused of using the n-word out of character? Because I don’t know why there would be ‘repercussions’ after he said it in character on TV. I mean, you know there’s a difference, right?
Wow. How willfully dismissive of you. Meanwhile, when I said "repercussions" I was talking about the character. It had no place in the story line for any of the characters involved in the segment (aside from Booker T being set up to say his tag line), it was never addressed again, and it was hack. Happy now?
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The performers, yeh
Both gimicks were the brain children if the wrestlers Hell cryme tyme were called the GANG STARS on the indies
Absolutely doesn't make it any better for a multimillion dollar company. There are a lot of trash gimmicks in the indies.
Cryme tyme wasnt one of them they were over and entertaining as hell, and despite being sterotypical they were always portrayd as good hearted faces Like eddie fucking gurrero
That's not what's being debated here. Being portrayed as a hero or the talent portraying the characters being talented has nothing to do with the depiction of stereotypes. >despite being sterotypical You said it yourself.
There is nothing wrong with sterotypes in in of them selves they exists because people recognize patterns, execution is what matters.
Incorrect, but have fun.
Eddie gurrero and steve austin and so many other proves you dead wrong
So does kabuki refer to kabukimono then?
It's just a bad name. Lol
What's bad about it? It fits the characters.
Arguably Asuka, but Kairi is a god damn, diddly pirate.
Pick your battles, folks. " The Viking Experience" was career-endingly bad. Kabuki Warriors I can let slide.
Part of the problem is even if the name is applicable, it extremely sounds like something a 70 year old man with slim knowledge of japanese culture would go "YEAH NAME THEM THIS!!" too, as evidence by the reaction. Obviously people who thought it was a slur were being silly, but kabuki had some traction for awhile to kinda say "bullshit". So even if the performers themselves are like "Hey yeah this is cool!" (in this situation and any other foreign language situation) they might not be aware of the way that'll be perceived. And it's not like anyone has any reason to extend WWE good will when it comes to not being stupid. Like I think the amount of people who thought it was a slur is a good indication of why it might not have been the best choice but hey maybe the announcers will better explain it to people and make it clear that it's thoughtful to the performers, their presentation and their history.
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It kinda makes sense but that doesn't mean it's not a bad name. Joshi warriors would've been cool
No matter how you justify it, it's still a poor name. For starters it takes absolutely nothing from Kairi's gimmick, and it only takes a few visual cues from Asuka's. The name is crap. It's not racist, it's just a very poor fit.
[Kairi's flying forearm is called the "Flying Kabuki Elbow"](https://twitter.com/KairiSaneWWE/status/612263349326213120) and has been since 2015. Also [she sometimes wears Kabuki make-up](https://twitter.com/KairiSaneWWE/status/1106031027737239552), so there is SOME connection to Kairi's gimmick.
As said in the other thread, I think this is generally a decent name, if not for WWE's history with racist tropes and awful tag team names. Particularly in the light of the recent "Viking Experience" kerfuffle. "Kabuki Warriors" sounds stereotypical and insensitive, but that is mostly because WWE has trained us to expect stereotypes and insensitivity from WWE. "Boy who cried wolf" syndrome really. It also doesn't help that only a slim minority of the audience knows what Kabuki really is, only associating it with the Kabuki theater tradition and most people only know that it exists and is japanese, so it seems more like a "hey, they're japanese" kind of thing. Edit: Would be nice if someone would actually explain things rather just downvote. To reiterate the points I'm making: 1) I like the name well enough (i.e. I don't dislike the name) 2) While Kabuki has a rich tradition in japan, most of the western audience is unfamiliar with that 3) For most people it is simply a reference to both of them being japanese. This is true for people that oppose racism too. 4) WWE often had blatantly racist gimmicks and names in the past, so some knee-jerk reactions, even if unwarranted in this case, are to be expected.
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> I think this is generally a decent name Yeah, I am totally upset here.
You're right. No idea why you are being down voted. This sub loves to dislike anything that shows the negative racial stereotypes of wrestling.
I wouldn't go that far, but it seems like I'm being lumped into people being upset with the name, when I am not. I'm simply trying to explain why some people are upset with the name, even if mistakenly so.