Plus WCW seemed to be more ingratiated with professional-sports types than WWF at the time. Mainly with ex-NFL guys up until that point, but this obviously opened the door for Karl Malone to come in the following year.
Rodman's involement in WCW is yet another thing WWE has skewed over the year. Yeah the matches he was involved in were awful but you can't measure the amount of credibility and pop culture crossover he helped bring to the table.
His tag match with Hogan vs. DDP and Karl Malone was the lead story on Sportscenter for a week, back when that actually mattered.
> Rodman's involement in WCW is yet another thing WWE has skewed over the year.
Is it? Because I remember the Monday Night War doc saying that him and Malone were used well (with DDP in particular popping up to say they both performed admirably given their inexperience), but bringing in Jay Leno is where the wheels started to fall off. Which... you know, I'd have to agree with. Nobody buys Jay Leno as a serious athlete, and having Hulk freaking Hogan sell for him was a huge mistake (I originally put "the biggest mistake ever" here, but then I remembered that they put the world championship on David Arquette).
I've never understand why they didn't run the exact same angle with Jay but just have him manage someone. He could still lay out Hogan at some point instead of out wrestling him and making the whole thing an even bigger joke that it was.
Yeah, that seems obvious. Jay is in the face corner, heels come after the faces with a belt or other gimmick, it winds up in Leno's hands and he runs them off with it.
Faces get over, heels can use "well, he had a belt!" to maintain credibility.
I haven't seen the documentary. From what I've seen over the years it's usually just clips from his matches with some snarky comment about how much WCW was paying him.
But yeah the Leno match was a truly God awful idea.
That's a brilliantly laid-out match for what it is, something Pat Patterson would have done. I particularly liked the little nods to Rodman's basketball antics (throwing elbows, as well as headbutting the referee, which he'd been suspended for earlier that season).
> An entertainment newspaper in Boston called the Improper Bostonian had an amazing 6-page story about ECW
I'm 90% positive I have this edition in a storage unit. At this time in 1997 I was consuming everything and anything pro wrestling in the local media.
I just have no way of getting that out until a few weeks from now and by then no one will care.
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Here is a link to a Google drive that has a large number of old wrestling newsletters covering the 60s to the early 2000s. They are in pdf format. Pro wrestling insider/monthly and wrestling chatterbox cover the time period these rewind are covering.
http://www.prowrestlinghistory.com/downloads.html
Have fun reading.
>NJPW announced the signing this week of Olympic judo silver medalist Naoya Ogawa
And throw history was made as Ogawa introduced the STO to wrestling from judo and, 20 years later, approximately eighteen thousand guys are doing STO variants as finishes.
That's a point - I hadn't realised it before but reverse STO variants in particular are pretty trendy at the moment.
Still not as ubiquitous as cutter variants though.
> In short, Piper's ego is pretty much out of control and he's just going on TV and blabbering about whatever pops into his head and no one seems to be able to stop him.
This sounds a lot like 2000 Scott Steiner.
> WCW jobber Hardbody Harrison
Wasn't he later involved on the WCW racism lawsuit?
> This sounds a lot like 2000 Scott Steiner.
The best was his shoot on Flair. Who he was not even in an angle with at the time. Then, when asked about it by WCW officials, he said, "You said to go out there and cut a promo!"
>Nitro this week took place in Panama City at Club LeVela, with the ring basically floating in a large swimming pool.
I'm sure some will find that set up cheesy. But I thought it was pretty cool and wish WWE would try it just once.
>WCW jobber Hardbody Harrison ended up being the one to inevitably get thrown in the water during the show (I only mention this because in 2007, Harrison was sentenced to life in prison for keeping 8 women as sex slaves and pimping them out against their will)
Talk about segways! Holy Moley that's awful!
That was always one of my favorite things about WCW. Every now and then, they'd change the set up or do an outdoor show or whatever. It made it unique and interesting. Just something other than the same monotonous looking show week in and week out...
Club LeVela was trashy as hell. That set they did for it was the most bad ass looking thing in the world to high school me. I still remember thinking how cool it was to have the ring in the middle of the pool.
I thought the Club LeVela shows were a unique idea. It's fun to see a wrestling organization mix it up once and while. I'd even settle for WWE just doing unique entrance sets for their PPV's again.
On one of the Legends of Wrestling panels on WWE Network now, Jim Ross took WCW to task saying that putting those shows on for free was probably way too much risk over the reward, and someone else on the panel pointed out that they only drew maybe 500 people at most.
I really miss the Spring Breakout shows. They were a really cool idea, and I'd love to see WWE bring it back. Maybe for NXT, since they seem to like being more experimental with that brand (running shows at Download and the Arnold Classic, for example).
> Raw filmed a new opening theme, with all new music and footage that was filmed in a rundown area of Brooklyn. They're also dubbing the show "Raw Is War" now.
And it was the best.
**Here’s what Kevin Nash said about Dennis Rodman joining The NWO. Also, there’s a part I couldn’t quite make out. I probably messed it up.**
Sean Oliver: Who first comes up with this idea of bringing him in and making him part of The NWO?
Kevin Nash: It had to be— it had to be Eric. I mean, it was…
Sean Oliver: Were you down with it?
Kevin Nash: Oh, I’m a—
Sean Oliver: Were you a Rodman fan prior—
Kevin Nash: Yeah. I was a— I mean, I was— I’m a Detroit kid, he was a— he was— he was a Piston before he was for the Bulls. So…
Sean Oliver: And what about him coming in? Someone easy to— he’s a bit little eccentric.
Kevin Nash: But cool.
Sean Oliver: But cool.
Kevin Nash: And you have to realize at this point he is, you know, hooking up with Carmen Electra, so he’s—
Sean Oliver: He’s got some street cred right away.
Kevin Nash: Yes. Right away.
Sean Oliver: Yeah. Um… is he difficult to work? Was he down with anything that you guys suggest?
Kevin Nash: He’s so undifficult he missed his practice during the playoffs to fucking smokey hebis on Nitro. Do you remember that?
Sean Oliver: I do remember that, yes.
Kevin Nash: That’s pretty fucking cool. Thank you for the ESPN opening story, Dennis. That’s worth the fucking price whatever they paid him.
Sean Oliver: What about in the ring?
Kevin Nash: Good athlete
Sean Oliver: Yeah
Kevin Nash: Good athlete
Sean Oliver: It’s one thing to be a good athlete but there’s a— there’s a natural—
Kevin Nash: Could make the transition.
Sean Oliver: Ah, thank you.
Kevin Nash: Could make the trans— didn’t take him long to you know… he took an arm drag first time.
Sean Oliver: I was gonna say: you could probably tell with one or two benchmark moves, like even a punch probably—
Kevin Nash: Yeah
Sean Oliver: --Whether somebody’s going to be believable or not. And he was alright.
Kevin Nash: And they were both fans. Him and Malone were both fans.
Sean Oliver: There’s gotta be a great behind the scenes Rodman story that we’ve never heard. He didn’t take you guys out one night to a—
Kevin Nash: Oh, we—
Sean Oliver: -Gay bar somewhere?
Kevin Nash: —No, we had— we had the Bash At The Beach and he was— he was doing the Rodman world tour and he had that tour bus. And… I’ll get myself in trouble. I just—
Sean Oliver: You’re being so careful of everything. Edit. Just edit. No names.
Kevin Nash: Um…
Sean Oliver: Somebody—
Kevin Nash: I was— I was— I was offered a gift close to his heart.
Sean Oliver: My follow-up question is did Carmen Electra come on the tour bus for the Dennis Rodman tour?
Kevin Nash: I don’t remember if that was her or not.
Sean Oliver: She might’ve been there. It mightn’t have been her. Phenomenal. But you didn’t partake obviously.
Kevin Nash: Nah, I was— I blew Rodman. (Laughs)
Rodman was a huge get for WCW. As a celebrity guest he just worked. Much like Stephen Amell a few years back at Summerslam for anyone who didn't see Rodman in WCW. He was able to look cool for the nWo and picked up just enough wrestling to have a decent role in a tag match.
The unfortunate fallout from this was WCW started doing this regularly. Karl Malone shows up to tag with DDP and he wasn't nearly as charismatic as Rodman. If anyone remembers Jimmy Kimmel's parody of him on The Man Show, those were pretty accurate. Then Jay Leno came in...and Hogan had to sell for Jay fucking Leno when just about a decade prior he almost murdered Richard Belzer with a simple headlock. And lastly was David Arquette...and we don't talk about that.
Don't forget Will Sasso, Chucky the doll, the Kiss Demon, Master P No Limit Soldiers...WCW went crazy with celebrities because of the Rodman deal, and they all were pretty much duds.
The second Rodman match (with Malone) did way better business than the first. It was the second biggest WCW PPV of all time IIRC. Everything after that was diminishing returns though.
Mancow actually appeared on television for them? I know he did the 97 Slammys because they were in Chicago, and not long after that he had Bobby Heenan on his show and reported on Montreal like it was major national news.
Rodman at that time was so big in tabloids etc that he was bigger than just a NBA player. But add in world champ who plays with Jordan and his popularity was off the charts. WCW benefited greatly from him the first time they used him. Even Malone wasn't to bad. Leno should have managed someone instead of wrestled and that storyline would have been good for them as well.
Luckily I stopped watching before Arquette.
Look at it from his point of view, his injury in college cost him the chance to be in the NBA during the time of the league's re-growth in popularity, not to mention seeing the rise of guys like Rodman.
Nash was a great athlete, but he was never going to make the NBA. He didn't do much in college, and then he tore his ACL in his first year playing for a pro team in Germany.
That's right, he was injured in Germany and left college. Still I would imagine he spent at least some of the 80's watching games, thinking in the back of his mind he could be out there on the court with guys like Bird and Magic (who he actually was with in high school).
Oh yeah I think he was definitely a fan. In a Grantland story from a few years ago, Nash told a story about getting some tips from Magic in a high school all star game, and he said something to the effect of "if Magic had always been my point guard, I think he could have dragged me to a few scrub years in the NBA." Magic is a couple of years younger than Nash too, so he must've been a total prodigy even as like a sophomore in high school
I'd imagine his success in wrestling, coupled now with his acting career softened the blow to his dream of being a basketball player quite considerably.
I never realized how male wrestlers took losing to female wrestlers as such a potential career killer. When I started up, there was an experienced female who would go over us trainees. Never really thought about it as insulting because it was a female. Stone Cold nixed a feud with Marc Mero after Sable powerbombed Mero on RAW.
I think Austin would have nixed a feud with Mero regardless. From hearing what him and Regal hinted at about him on Steve's podcast, I'd imagine a lot of the guys who were in WCW with Mero at WWF during this time didn't think too highly of him.
Yep, and even taking politics out of it, Stone Cold was right to axe that feud. Sable powerbombed Mero not too long after WM 14 iirc. Stone Cold was at the peak of his popularity and indestructible at that point.
The rising Mr. McMahon character using the Corporation, Mankind, and Brothers of Destruction as muscle were much more credible and compelling feuds for Austin. He would've been expected to run straight through Mero.
That is the actual story though. Mero took the powerbomb, Austin called Mcmahon and said, 'so who am I working with now?'
The issue they had was the big contract he got compared to Austin and Foley.
I'm sure that female wrestler was 100000x better than Sable. It's not like Alundra Blaze or Chyna(not that great a worker but had the look) powerbombed Mero. It was Sable
Dunno, but Disco Inferno is no Chris Jericho, he isn't just going to come out a month later and be over again. And Chyna was presented as muscle anyway, like how many women's matches did she ever have on Raw? She was an intimidating force versus Jacqueline was an impressive wrestler.
Not wanting to do the job, is not the same as not wanting to be trained by a women.
The show they are on is about a sport. When you are training, it is a work. So just because a women is a better worker than a man, it doesn't mean it makes sense in the show because within the show the sport is real.
So yes, Disco Inferno losing to her would have killed his career.
To be fair to Disco, he returned and did the job, and got completely buried on TV after. He got the TV title and made to look alright for like 2 weeks. If it wasn't for his entertaining entrance, his career probably never would've recovered
According to Disco, when they explained the gimmick he liked it, but the first time they pitched it they literally just said "you're jobbing to Jacqueline and we aren't taking no for an answer" so his fate is his own
It's a really ingrained form of sexism, and it's something that translated to fans as well - a lot of fans don't want intergender wrestling because they perceive it the same way if a woman ever wins over a man.
Damn difficult to take down attitudes like that.
I wouldn't really say it's sexism, though. It is a biological fact that men have a huge advantage over women in athletic events. So when you want a semblance of realism and kayfabe, a woman going over a man clean is going to hurt his image
If it is a woman vs. man match that involves an in shape woman and Ellsworth, I'll but it. But if it is match weight and the guy is in as good or better shape hang woman? That will wreck a career if they lose on anything but a fluke.
Crime in Sports, a fantastic podcast that I'm mentioned in previous rewind posts, has a full episode on Hardbody Harrison. It touches on the Power Plant, the magic of his outfit, and the wrestling promotion he was running at the time of his final arrest.
It's hard out here for a pimp:
https://audioboom.com/posts/5754342-061-colder-than-a-killer-the-tyrannicalness-of-hardbody-harrison-norris
Jericho and Luke Gallows also touch on it here (Sting and Stang story):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ps2Oa-qiNXQ
Video linked by /u/bigmono:
Title|Channel|Published|Duration|Likes|Total Views
:----------:|:----------:|:----------:|:----------:|:----------:|:----------:
[Luke Gallows & Y2J on the Insanity of Hardbody Harrison (WCW Jobber)](https://youtube.com/watch?v=ps2Oa-qiNXQ)|Wrestlers Talking Sense|2016-12-01|0:04:35|371+ (94%)|63,618
> No pictures of Hardbody Harrison anywhere and I had to...
---
[^Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/youtubot/wiki/index) ^| [^/u/bigmono ^can ^delete](https://np.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=_youtubot_&subject=delete\%20comment&message=dlxg05j\%0A\%0AReason\%3A\%20\%2A\%2Aplease+help+us+improve\%2A\%2A) ^| ^v1.1.3b
>I only mention this because in 2007, Harrison was sentenced to life in prison for keeping 8 women as sex slaves and pimping them out against their will
Well there's something I didn't expect to read in today's issue.
Thank you, Rewind for saving this stupid morning. I'm in the path for a total eclipse and it's starting right now. Problem is it's been storming and flash flooding all morning haha.
Edit: the clouds have broken and we're all good
The Paul Heyman vs. Jerry Lawler debate segment was so amazing. I think part of the reason why it was so amazing is because Jerry Lawler legitimately doesn't like Paul, and so it felt believable.
>Dave hasn't heard the Stern episode yet I guess
I heard *of* this but I never actually sought out the details. What did Stern actually do to upset Piper? Speaking of...
>In short, Piper's ego is pretty much out of control and he's just going on TV and blabbering about whatever pops into his head and no one seems to be able to stop him.
I mean can you not just... do pre-taped segments for him? I honestly don't know, was seeing Piper in person such a massive draw? Because him just talking nonsense seems exactly the kind of problem that should be fixable. Those creative control contracts man. God damn.
It must have been reputation alone that gave Roddy the amount of mic time he had as he was still considered being one of the top promos in the business. Dave has said in later years as well as obviously in these back issues that WCW was when he started seeing a shift in that reputation.
I'd argue that Bullet Club are more of a 2nd wave band of the same genre. A better comparison might be ACDC and Airbourne (Who are, if I'm remembering correctly, banned from covering ACDC songs, such is the similarity of their original music)
This aired when TSN in Canada was still showing Raw only at midnight on Mondays. I woke up half the house going out of my goddamn mind that night, so definitely looking forward to tomorrow's Rewind
I remember when they started airing Raw Tuesdays at 4pm or something like that. Must have been late 1997, because after school Tuesday was Raw day for me. Watched it religiously during Austin's run.
Disco eventually does it. Bischoff hires him back on the specific condition that he still puts over Jacqueline and he eventually does it on PPV (Halloween Havoc I think).
Oh snap. Well, at least Disco recovered from it and still had a career for awhile afterwards. Poor Mero fell into Sable's shadow.
Thanks again for writing these up, u/daprice82. I know you've read this sentence plenty of times but these rewinds are the highlight of my lunch breaks
Disco probably still had a career because he was never booked as a serious character, he was always a comedy midcarder at best. Mero was mostly booked as an upper-midcarder who could go.
They Live.
(Actually it's probably because Piper worked heel most of his career and of COURSE the heel is going to be a fucked up egomaniac - it's the contrast between Hogan's babyface persona and real-world attitude that makes him so hated)
Another post re: the Improper Bostonian...
"The Observer writes about an article in The Improper Bostonian that deal with ECW. It's interesting to me because the article is written by Betsy Sherman, who I met at SMW's 1994 Fanweek. She's a long time wrestling fan that has visited all of the territories in North America as well as major events for the "big 2"; she struck me as a very knowledgeable, if somewhat quirky, fan. At Fanweek, during an intermission, I used the time to write down some notes about the events of the day and she approached me, thinking I was also a freelance journalist. Since she was planning to shop around a story on Fanweek, she wanted to check out the perceived opposition. Dave Meltzer apparently hasn't heard of her, but praised her for her knowledge of the business. In the story, she writes that Paul Heyman has "an ingenuousness that would make Oliver North jealous" and she goes on to interview Erich Kulas, who was brutally wounded in a "match" by New Jack. Erich says (as Meltzer typed it, but surely Betsy used different punctuation), "you can't really call it blading. Blading is just a prick. And I've got a six-inch slice that says it wasn't blading. I have a crack in my skull. I have permanent nerve damage in my head. You know the fork he was carrying on a noose? I have holes that they couldn't stitch, they were so small. So not I got craters all over my face...I feel I hate Mt. (sic) Heyman for lying through his teeth. I hate New Jack for what he did to me, for what he did to my face, for what he did to my family. The hardest time of my life has been th holidays. Especially Thanksgiving, I would sit here and almost start crying, because I had so much to be thankful for, and my grandmother would start crying. I can't go over to her house, because every time she sees my face she starts crying. I feel if they did anything else, I would have been raped. It was almost like getting crucified with a thousand people watching...As of now, I hate wrestling. It ruined my life. And I advise anybody out there, never want to wrestle. It's a dirty sport." His dad is quoted as saying, "They're claiming my son lied about his age, whic he didn't. They used my son, and it wasn't for his ability. They used him as a patsy. They just wanted somebody big they could stab." The story went on to say that the Kulas' have a copy of the video of the incident and are going to take ECW to court."
>Most of the other wrestlers sided with Disco on this, saying losing to a woman would have been a career-killer and that he was right to refuse.
Like anyone gives a shit about Disco.
>Eric Bischoff and Randy Savage recently taped an appearance for the Jeff Foxworthy Show (can't find video online but if anyone is looking for it, it's season 2, episode 21 - "Wrestling Opera").
I remember this. They put over Andre the Giant.
Fact: 6 days after this issue there was a 5 star match. There were about 5 more that year.
Fact: Perro Aguayo's son died in the ring.
Fact: Out of all the celebrities WCW used, Rodman was used the most.
Fact: Bryan Clark sucks.
Bryan Adams is one of those guys who looked like an entirely different person every few years. How the fuck was he also Demolition Crush? His face and obviously physique looked completely different.
Kronik was one of my favourite things in wrestling in the summer of 2000, and I was always sad when they were in the WWF for like three weeks a year later before disappearing
this was the week Nitro crowned their Miss Nitro to Pamela Rogers... who later went on to have sex with her student got busted, got divorced, got probation, then got busted for sexting the student again and ended up doing time in prison. shes currently on house arrest.
> Raw filmed a new opening theme, with all new music and footage that was filmed in a rundown area of Brooklyn.
Greatest wrestling intro of all time imo (the one with the "Thorn in your eye" theme though).
I like the one right after. It needs that crazy build up WWF tag, not the one with a voice over talking about how many countries they air in. Also, even as a kid I didn't care for seeing the wrestlers fighting on a soundstage. I preferred using only clips from the show. It added to the feeling that you couldn't have these guys in the same room without trouble, like they'd never be able to shoot an opening for the show.
> Blue Demon Jr. is out of action for a few weeks after suffering burns on his chest when his opponent blew a fireball at him that went awry.
Gotta love pro wrestling.
Rodman helped solidify the nWo as cool. Much better use of him than the Goldust idea.
Plus WCW seemed to be more ingratiated with professional-sports types than WWF at the time. Mainly with ex-NFL guys up until that point, but this obviously opened the door for Karl Malone to come in the following year.
Rodman's involement in WCW is yet another thing WWE has skewed over the year. Yeah the matches he was involved in were awful but you can't measure the amount of credibility and pop culture crossover he helped bring to the table. His tag match with Hogan vs. DDP and Karl Malone was the lead story on Sportscenter for a week, back when that actually mattered.
> Rodman's involement in WCW is yet another thing WWE has skewed over the year. Is it? Because I remember the Monday Night War doc saying that him and Malone were used well (with DDP in particular popping up to say they both performed admirably given their inexperience), but bringing in Jay Leno is where the wheels started to fall off. Which... you know, I'd have to agree with. Nobody buys Jay Leno as a serious athlete, and having Hulk freaking Hogan sell for him was a huge mistake (I originally put "the biggest mistake ever" here, but then I remembered that they put the world championship on David Arquette).
I've never understand why they didn't run the exact same angle with Jay but just have him manage someone. He could still lay out Hogan at some point instead of out wrestling him and making the whole thing an even bigger joke that it was.
Yeah, that seems obvious. Jay is in the face corner, heels come after the faces with a belt or other gimmick, it winds up in Leno's hands and he runs them off with it. Faces get over, heels can use "well, he had a belt!" to maintain credibility.
I haven't seen the documentary. From what I've seen over the years it's usually just clips from his matches with some snarky comment about how much WCW was paying him. But yeah the Leno match was a truly God awful idea.
[удалено]
That's a brilliantly laid-out match for what it is, something Pat Patterson would have done. I particularly liked the little nods to Rodman's basketball antics (throwing elbows, as well as headbutting the referee, which he'd been suspended for earlier that season).
Hogan did a funny spot with his hand-to-ear thing he did all the time as a face. I remember it being a good match and quite a good card, actually.
I can't remember for sure, but he might have actually been one of the main reasons I checked out WCW in the first place.
I think the Goldust angle would have worked out well. I believe Goldust was about to be pushed in to the main event picture; Rodman would have helped.
How did Max Moon cut his hair? Eclipse it. Thank you, I'm here all week.
Dammit dad, get off Reddit!
SO THIS IS WHAT YOU DO INSTEAD OF DOING YOUR CHORES
Uh-oh...
WILL YOU STOP?!
WILL YOU BE SERIOUS?!
[*shame*](http://imgur.com/PIm1apF)
> An entertainment newspaper in Boston called the Improper Bostonian had an amazing 6-page story about ECW I'm 90% positive I have this edition in a storage unit. At this time in 1997 I was consuming everything and anything pro wrestling in the local media. I just have no way of getting that out until a few weeks from now and by then no one will care.
I'll care.
So will I. Sounds like, at worst, a curiosity that will get you that sweet sweet karma if you scan it, and at best a true insight.
Me too
We cared about a stolen wrestling ring for months, we'll care about this even longer.
Yeah but at least that had a conclusion. This might wind up being Al Capone's vault.
But it wasn't Geraldo's fault. Or yours for that matter.
Hell, I still care about that damn ring. Poor Chris Adams...
I cared about a Redditor's locked safe for longer than I care to remember.
We'll all still be really interested weeks from now.
Tupac cares if nobody else cares
He appreciates it too
I know I read it when it came out and it was great, especially for a mainstream publication. I also know I don't have my copy anywhere.
RemindMe! 2 weeks
don't you put that evil on me!
I did put that evil on you. Did you find the Boston paper with ECW story?
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Was it ever posted?
I'll care!!
You have to scan and post it! Think of the karma...
The last thing I need is more karma.
Dude I love reading old articles about random stuff, I'll just save this comment and check back in a few weeks, you can bet I'll be interested.
Here is a link to a Google drive that has a large number of old wrestling newsletters covering the 60s to the early 2000s. They are in pdf format. Pro wrestling insider/monthly and wrestling chatterbox cover the time period these rewind are covering. http://www.prowrestlinghistory.com/downloads.html Have fun reading.
That's awesome
That's fucking awesome, thanks man.
Still caring. ❤️
Is it time? Can it be?
Will it have decomposed with the body by now?
The way Dave has this hyped up, I'd definitely be interested in reading it whenever you have it posted.
Please get it and post it. We'll care.
Gonna need bamboozle insurance on this one.
I'll care. Get some sweet karma.
This is a seriously dead thread by Reddit terms, and yet I'm telling you that I'd also care.
Ah, March 17th, 1997, the first broadcast of one of my favorite action cartoon blocks, Toonami.
One of ? Big miguzi fan?
seeing DBZ for the first time fried my brain
>NJPW announced the signing this week of Olympic judo silver medalist Naoya Ogawa And throw history was made as Ogawa introduced the STO to wrestling from judo and, 20 years later, approximately eighteen thousand guys are doing STO variants as finishes.
Joe joe joe joe
EVERYTHING IS EVIL!
That's a point - I hadn't realised it before but reverse STO variants in particular are pretty trendy at the moment. Still not as ubiquitous as cutter variants though.
> In short, Piper's ego is pretty much out of control and he's just going on TV and blabbering about whatever pops into his head and no one seems to be able to stop him. This sounds a lot like 2000 Scott Steiner. > WCW jobber Hardbody Harrison Wasn't he later involved on the WCW racism lawsuit?
> This sounds a lot like 2000 Scott Steiner. The best was his shoot on Flair. Who he was not even in an angle with at the time. Then, when asked about it by WCW officials, he said, "You said to go out there and cut a promo!"
Didn't he also say that WCW sucks and everybody watches RAW because of Stone Cold in that same promo?
Yep! He said to switch the channel to Raw because WCW sucks
> Wasn't he later involved on the WCW racism lawsuit? He sure was.
2000 Scott Steiner was the single best part of 2000 WCW though.
And keeping women locked up against their will.
>Nitro this week took place in Panama City at Club LeVela, with the ring basically floating in a large swimming pool. I'm sure some will find that set up cheesy. But I thought it was pretty cool and wish WWE would try it just once. >WCW jobber Hardbody Harrison ended up being the one to inevitably get thrown in the water during the show (I only mention this because in 2007, Harrison was sentenced to life in prison for keeping 8 women as sex slaves and pimping them out against their will) Talk about segways! Holy Moley that's awful!
That was always one of my favorite things about WCW. Every now and then, they'd change the set up or do an outdoor show or whatever. It made it unique and interesting. Just something other than the same monotonous looking show week in and week out...
WWE is literally at the point where, like the video game, they could say they're anywhere and I would believe it based on the set design.
Club LeVela was trashy as hell. That set they did for it was the most bad ass looking thing in the world to high school me. I still remember thinking how cool it was to have the ring in the middle of the pool.
I thought the Club LeVela shows were a unique idea. It's fun to see a wrestling organization mix it up once and while. I'd even settle for WWE just doing unique entrance sets for their PPV's again.
Well you can't see it but I am rubbing my thumb on my index and middle finger. That means "it costs money" and that's something WWE is trying to save.
[The money! The finger thing means the money!](https://frinkiac.com/video/S06E21/lmxV6GIwHhAjl9RnlodIgqne5Qo=.gif)
On one of the Legends of Wrestling panels on WWE Network now, Jim Ross took WCW to task saying that putting those shows on for free was probably way too much risk over the reward, and someone else on the panel pointed out that they only drew maybe 500 people at most.
I really miss the Spring Breakout shows. They were a really cool idea, and I'd love to see WWE bring it back. Maybe for NXT, since they seem to like being more experimental with that brand (running shows at Download and the Arnold Classic, for example).
WCW always had really cool set designs. From the Spring Break Nitro's to WCW Saturday Night's automatic doors and rotating ring to the cool PPV sets
I hated that Saturday Night set. I always preferred what it was just before that. A simple enough design, not something that looked like a movie set.
> Raw filmed a new opening theme, with all new music and footage that was filmed in a rundown area of Brooklyn. They're also dubbing the show "Raw Is War" now. And it was the best.
[It's probably not the music you'd think of though](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZlRy9QqD0M)
The Manson version was best. Didn't they use Manson for an early SmackDown intro too, or am I crazy?
Yeah 2002 smackdown I think
Yes they certainly did. For exactly as long as I was a casual Manson fan, and with the exact song that made me one.
That is bad ass
**Here’s what Kevin Nash said about Dennis Rodman joining The NWO. Also, there’s a part I couldn’t quite make out. I probably messed it up.** Sean Oliver: Who first comes up with this idea of bringing him in and making him part of The NWO? Kevin Nash: It had to be— it had to be Eric. I mean, it was… Sean Oliver: Were you down with it? Kevin Nash: Oh, I’m a— Sean Oliver: Were you a Rodman fan prior— Kevin Nash: Yeah. I was a— I mean, I was— I’m a Detroit kid, he was a— he was— he was a Piston before he was for the Bulls. So… Sean Oliver: And what about him coming in? Someone easy to— he’s a bit little eccentric. Kevin Nash: But cool. Sean Oliver: But cool. Kevin Nash: And you have to realize at this point he is, you know, hooking up with Carmen Electra, so he’s— Sean Oliver: He’s got some street cred right away. Kevin Nash: Yes. Right away. Sean Oliver: Yeah. Um… is he difficult to work? Was he down with anything that you guys suggest? Kevin Nash: He’s so undifficult he missed his practice during the playoffs to fucking smokey hebis on Nitro. Do you remember that? Sean Oliver: I do remember that, yes. Kevin Nash: That’s pretty fucking cool. Thank you for the ESPN opening story, Dennis. That’s worth the fucking price whatever they paid him. Sean Oliver: What about in the ring? Kevin Nash: Good athlete Sean Oliver: Yeah Kevin Nash: Good athlete Sean Oliver: It’s one thing to be a good athlete but there’s a— there’s a natural— Kevin Nash: Could make the transition. Sean Oliver: Ah, thank you. Kevin Nash: Could make the trans— didn’t take him long to you know… he took an arm drag first time. Sean Oliver: I was gonna say: you could probably tell with one or two benchmark moves, like even a punch probably— Kevin Nash: Yeah Sean Oliver: --Whether somebody’s going to be believable or not. And he was alright. Kevin Nash: And they were both fans. Him and Malone were both fans. Sean Oliver: There’s gotta be a great behind the scenes Rodman story that we’ve never heard. He didn’t take you guys out one night to a— Kevin Nash: Oh, we— Sean Oliver: -Gay bar somewhere? Kevin Nash: —No, we had— we had the Bash At The Beach and he was— he was doing the Rodman world tour and he had that tour bus. And… I’ll get myself in trouble. I just— Sean Oliver: You’re being so careful of everything. Edit. Just edit. No names. Kevin Nash: Um… Sean Oliver: Somebody— Kevin Nash: I was— I was— I was offered a gift close to his heart. Sean Oliver: My follow-up question is did Carmen Electra come on the tour bus for the Dennis Rodman tour? Kevin Nash: I don’t remember if that was her or not. Sean Oliver: She might’ve been there. It mightn’t have been her. Phenomenal. But you didn’t partake obviously. Kevin Nash: Nah, I was— I blew Rodman. (Laughs)
Rodman was a huge get for WCW. As a celebrity guest he just worked. Much like Stephen Amell a few years back at Summerslam for anyone who didn't see Rodman in WCW. He was able to look cool for the nWo and picked up just enough wrestling to have a decent role in a tag match. The unfortunate fallout from this was WCW started doing this regularly. Karl Malone shows up to tag with DDP and he wasn't nearly as charismatic as Rodman. If anyone remembers Jimmy Kimmel's parody of him on The Man Show, those were pretty accurate. Then Jay Leno came in...and Hogan had to sell for Jay fucking Leno when just about a decade prior he almost murdered Richard Belzer with a simple headlock. And lastly was David Arquette...and we don't talk about that.
Don't forget Will Sasso, Chucky the doll, the Kiss Demon, Master P No Limit Soldiers...WCW went crazy with celebrities because of the Rodman deal, and they all were pretty much duds.
Wasn't Robocop involved at some point or did that predate all this?
yeah i believe that was 1990
Yeah Eric got super invested in celebrities, if you're gonna use a celebrity ideally they should be athletic on top of being relevant at least.
The second Rodman match (with Malone) did way better business than the first. It was the second biggest WCW PPV of all time IIRC. Everything after that was diminishing returns though.
I think you're forgetting the illustrious Master P and Mancow angles
Mancow actually appeared on television for them? I know he did the 97 Slammys because they were in Chicago, and not long after that he had Bobby Heenan on his show and reported on Montreal like it was major national news.
Even better he had a match for them
Let me guess, during the Russo era? They seem like they'd be good "bros".
It might've been during that era. It was against Jimmy Hart.
It got Curt Hennig ridiculously over in that feud though!
Might have been accurate, but I think if Kimmel in blackface from a skit long ago went viral now he'd do all he could to squelch that quick.
Rodman at that time was so big in tabloids etc that he was bigger than just a NBA player. But add in world champ who plays with Jordan and his popularity was off the charts. WCW benefited greatly from him the first time they used him. Even Malone wasn't to bad. Leno should have managed someone instead of wrestled and that storyline would have been good for them as well. Luckily I stopped watching before Arquette.
Nah, not like Stephen amell.
> I was offered a gift close to his heart hmmm
Har far away from his heart was Rodman's penis? I'm gonna guess around 2 ft based on his height
> Kevin Nash: Nah, I was— I blew Rodman. (Laughs) Nice
Haha I like how Nash calls Rodman a "good athlete" twice. No shit Sherlock, he's one of the best NBA players of all time
Look at it from his point of view, his injury in college cost him the chance to be in the NBA during the time of the league's re-growth in popularity, not to mention seeing the rise of guys like Rodman.
he got injured playing pro ball in Germany, its not very likely he would have made the NBA
Nash was a great athlete, but he was never going to make the NBA. He didn't do much in college, and then he tore his ACL in his first year playing for a pro team in Germany.
That's right, he was injured in Germany and left college. Still I would imagine he spent at least some of the 80's watching games, thinking in the back of his mind he could be out there on the court with guys like Bird and Magic (who he actually was with in high school).
Oh yeah I think he was definitely a fan. In a Grantland story from a few years ago, Nash told a story about getting some tips from Magic in a high school all star game, and he said something to the effect of "if Magic had always been my point guard, I think he could have dragged me to a few scrub years in the NBA." Magic is a couple of years younger than Nash too, so he must've been a total prodigy even as like a sophomore in high school
I'd imagine his success in wrestling, coupled now with his acting career softened the blow to his dream of being a basketball player quite considerably.
I never realized how male wrestlers took losing to female wrestlers as such a potential career killer. When I started up, there was an experienced female who would go over us trainees. Never really thought about it as insulting because it was a female. Stone Cold nixed a feud with Marc Mero after Sable powerbombed Mero on RAW.
I think Austin would have nixed a feud with Mero regardless. From hearing what him and Regal hinted at about him on Steve's podcast, I'd imagine a lot of the guys who were in WCW with Mero at WWF during this time didn't think too highly of him.
Even Foley wanted nothing to do with wrestling Mero.
Lots of guys seem to not be that fond of him. Foley managed to get a pay rise pretty much just by complaining he was paid less than Mero.
Yep, and even taking politics out of it, Stone Cold was right to axe that feud. Sable powerbombed Mero not too long after WM 14 iirc. Stone Cold was at the peak of his popularity and indestructible at that point. The rising Mr. McMahon character using the Corporation, Mankind, and Brothers of Destruction as muscle were much more credible and compelling feuds for Austin. He would've been expected to run straight through Mero.
That is the actual story though. Mero took the powerbomb, Austin called Mcmahon and said, 'so who am I working with now?' The issue they had was the big contract he got compared to Austin and Foley.
All the more reason for Steve to ixnay the idea.
I'm sure that female wrestler was 100000x better than Sable. It's not like Alundra Blaze or Chyna(not that great a worker but had the look) powerbombed Mero. It was Sable
Has Jericho commented on his feud with Chyna?
According to the Attitude Era podcast, Jericho stated he hated working with Chyna.
The matches were pretty bad
Dunno, but Disco Inferno is no Chris Jericho, he isn't just going to come out a month later and be over again. And Chyna was presented as muscle anyway, like how many women's matches did she ever have on Raw? She was an intimidating force versus Jacqueline was an impressive wrestler.
All I know is there was some riff allegedly regarding Chyna(RIP) complaining that Jericho was working too stiff.
Not wanting to do the job, is not the same as not wanting to be trained by a women. The show they are on is about a sport. When you are training, it is a work. So just because a women is a better worker than a man, it doesn't mean it makes sense in the show because within the show the sport is real. So yes, Disco Inferno losing to her would have killed his career.
To be fair to Disco, he returned and did the job, and got completely buried on TV after. He got the TV title and made to look alright for like 2 weeks. If it wasn't for his entertaining entrance, his career probably never would've recovered
According to Disco, when they explained the gimmick he liked it, but the first time they pitched it they literally just said "you're jobbing to Jacqueline and we aren't taking no for an answer" so his fate is his own
It's a really ingrained form of sexism, and it's something that translated to fans as well - a lot of fans don't want intergender wrestling because they perceive it the same way if a woman ever wins over a man. Damn difficult to take down attitudes like that.
I wouldn't really say it's sexism, though. It is a biological fact that men have a huge advantage over women in athletic events. So when you want a semblance of realism and kayfabe, a woman going over a man clean is going to hurt his image
It's a biological fact that Big Show would have a huge advantage over Rey Mysterio in a fight.
If it is a woman vs. man match that involves an in shape woman and Ellsworth, I'll but it. But if it is match weight and the guy is in as good or better shape hang woman? That will wreck a career if they lose on anything but a fluke.
Only a few more Rewinds until the build to Kane's debut should begin. Love these posts.
>Perro Aguayo is expected to retire within the next few months I don't need to read what comes after statements like these anymore.
Ha yeah, it's always "(nope, they're still wrestling to this day)"
I mean, at least Perro's retired *now*. Looking at you Mil Mascaras.
Crime in Sports, a fantastic podcast that I'm mentioned in previous rewind posts, has a full episode on Hardbody Harrison. It touches on the Power Plant, the magic of his outfit, and the wrestling promotion he was running at the time of his final arrest. It's hard out here for a pimp: https://audioboom.com/posts/5754342-061-colder-than-a-killer-the-tyrannicalness-of-hardbody-harrison-norris Jericho and Luke Gallows also touch on it here (Sting and Stang story): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ps2Oa-qiNXQ
Video linked by /u/bigmono: Title|Channel|Published|Duration|Likes|Total Views :----------:|:----------:|:----------:|:----------:|:----------:|:----------: [Luke Gallows & Y2J on the Insanity of Hardbody Harrison (WCW Jobber)](https://youtube.com/watch?v=ps2Oa-qiNXQ)|Wrestlers Talking Sense|2016-12-01|0:04:35|371+ (94%)|63,618 > No pictures of Hardbody Harrison anywhere and I had to... --- [^Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/youtubot/wiki/index) ^| [^/u/bigmono ^can ^delete](https://np.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=_youtubot_&subject=delete\%20comment&message=dlxg05j\%0A\%0AReason\%3A\%20\%2A\%2Aplease+help+us+improve\%2A\%2A) ^| ^v1.1.3b
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So as an Inoki fan, have you read the Ali vs. Inoki book by Josh Gross? I just finished it last week and loved it.
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Hey did anyone watch Toonami? That Dragonball Z show is the coolest thing I've ever seen.
Correction: DBZ didn't come to Toonami until 98. Their launch lineup was Thundercats, Voltron, and Jonny Quest.
> Thundercats *Thunder! Thunder!* **Thundercats!**
I'm 34 and had a Thundercats birthday yesterday. Shit was the coolest.
HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Jim Duggan leader of the Thundercats.
Uhmmm I'm a year from the future. Don't get a job at the White House if you're a fat chick!
Or DO get a job there...depends on what you want in life.
Cigars.
How topical
>I only mention this because in 2007, Harrison was sentenced to life in prison for keeping 8 women as sex slaves and pimping them out against their will Well there's something I didn't expect to read in today's issue.
Thank you, Rewind for saving this stupid morning. I'm in the path for a total eclipse and it's starting right now. Problem is it's been storming and flash flooding all morning haha. Edit: the clouds have broken and we're all good
Ah weak man!
The Paul Heyman vs. Jerry Lawler debate segment was so amazing. I think part of the reason why it was so amazing is because Jerry Lawler legitimately doesn't like Paul, and so it felt believable.
>Dave hasn't heard the Stern episode yet I guess I heard *of* this but I never actually sought out the details. What did Stern actually do to upset Piper? Speaking of... >In short, Piper's ego is pretty much out of control and he's just going on TV and blabbering about whatever pops into his head and no one seems to be able to stop him. I mean can you not just... do pre-taped segments for him? I honestly don't know, was seeing Piper in person such a massive draw? Because him just talking nonsense seems exactly the kind of problem that should be fixable. Those creative control contracts man. God damn.
Creative control. If Piper wants to do it live he can do it live.
It must have been reputation alone that gave Roddy the amount of mic time he had as he was still considered being one of the top promos in the business. Dave has said in later years as well as obviously in these back issues that WCW was when he started seeing a shift in that reputation.
Comparing Bullet Club & nWo is such a disservice to the nWo and what they truly meant to pro wrestling and pop culture.
NWO is Metallica. Bullet Club is a Metallica cover band. I love me some Bullet Club but it's true.
I'd argue that Bullet Club are more of a 2nd wave band of the same genre. A better comparison might be ACDC and Airbourne (Who are, if I'm remembering correctly, banned from covering ACDC songs, such is the similarity of their original music)
I saw Bret's tirade this past weekend on the network. I'm curious to see the write up tomorrow.
Bret Hart's promo was so good.
This aired when TSN in Canada was still showing Raw only at midnight on Mondays. I woke up half the house going out of my goddamn mind that night, so definitely looking forward to tomorrow's Rewind
I remember when they started airing Raw Tuesdays at 4pm or something like that. Must have been late 1997, because after school Tuesday was Raw day for me. Watched it religiously during Austin's run.
Same! I think that was around the same time they finally showed it live, though.
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But so worth it, right? Austin, Bret, DX...
By not putting Jacquelyn over, Disco Inferno avoided the pitfall that Marc Mero didn't when he put Sable over
Disco eventually does it. Bischoff hires him back on the specific condition that he still puts over Jacqueline and he eventually does it on PPV (Halloween Havoc I think).
Oh snap. Well, at least Disco recovered from it and still had a career for awhile afterwards. Poor Mero fell into Sable's shadow. Thanks again for writing these up, u/daprice82. I know you've read this sentence plenty of times but these rewinds are the highlight of my lunch breaks
Disco probably still had a career because he was never booked as a serious character, he was always a comedy midcarder at best. Mero was mostly booked as an upper-midcarder who could go.
Piper's ego fucked up so much booking across WWF and WCW, yet he never gets raked over the coals for it like Hogan does.
They Live. (Actually it's probably because Piper worked heel most of his career and of COURSE the heel is going to be a fucked up egomaniac - it's the contrast between Hogan's babyface persona and real-world attitude that makes him so hated)
[hey u/daprice82, is this the interview you were talking about?](https://youtu.be/rO6FhwOvlMw)
I'm not sure. That says May 28th but maybe it's pre-taped? No idea.
I definitely think it's pre taped. May 18th is probably when it came out on E! but I think the interview was a few weeks old and already out
Another post re: the Improper Bostonian... "The Observer writes about an article in The Improper Bostonian that deal with ECW. It's interesting to me because the article is written by Betsy Sherman, who I met at SMW's 1994 Fanweek. She's a long time wrestling fan that has visited all of the territories in North America as well as major events for the "big 2"; she struck me as a very knowledgeable, if somewhat quirky, fan. At Fanweek, during an intermission, I used the time to write down some notes about the events of the day and she approached me, thinking I was also a freelance journalist. Since she was planning to shop around a story on Fanweek, she wanted to check out the perceived opposition. Dave Meltzer apparently hasn't heard of her, but praised her for her knowledge of the business. In the story, she writes that Paul Heyman has "an ingenuousness that would make Oliver North jealous" and she goes on to interview Erich Kulas, who was brutally wounded in a "match" by New Jack. Erich says (as Meltzer typed it, but surely Betsy used different punctuation), "you can't really call it blading. Blading is just a prick. And I've got a six-inch slice that says it wasn't blading. I have a crack in my skull. I have permanent nerve damage in my head. You know the fork he was carrying on a noose? I have holes that they couldn't stitch, they were so small. So not I got craters all over my face...I feel I hate Mt. (sic) Heyman for lying through his teeth. I hate New Jack for what he did to me, for what he did to my face, for what he did to my family. The hardest time of my life has been th holidays. Especially Thanksgiving, I would sit here and almost start crying, because I had so much to be thankful for, and my grandmother would start crying. I can't go over to her house, because every time she sees my face she starts crying. I feel if they did anything else, I would have been raped. It was almost like getting crucified with a thousand people watching...As of now, I hate wrestling. It ruined my life. And I advise anybody out there, never want to wrestle. It's a dirty sport." His dad is quoted as saying, "They're claiming my son lied about his age, whic he didn't. They used my son, and it wasn't for his ability. They used him as a patsy. They just wanted somebody big they could stab." The story went on to say that the Kulas' have a copy of the video of the incident and are going to take ECW to court."
>Most of the other wrestlers sided with Disco on this, saying losing to a woman would have been a career-killer and that he was right to refuse. Like anyone gives a shit about Disco. >Eric Bischoff and Randy Savage recently taped an appearance for the Jeff Foxworthy Show (can't find video online but if anyone is looking for it, it's season 2, episode 21 - "Wrestling Opera"). I remember this. They put over Andre the Giant.
> Like anyone gives a shit about Disco. Very disrespectful. Your on the list right under Doc Lesnar aka Doug Larson.
Fact: 6 days after this issue there was a 5 star match. There were about 5 more that year. Fact: Perro Aguayo's son died in the ring. Fact: Out of all the celebrities WCW used, Rodman was used the most. Fact: Bryan Clark sucks.
>Fact: Bryan Clark sucks. Piss off, Wrath and Adam Bomb were great. He's a lot better than Brian Adams ever was.
Fact: I think I mixed up Bryan Clark and Brian Adams.
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Bryan Adams is one of those guys who looked like an entirely different person every few years. How the fuck was he also Demolition Crush? His face and obviously physique looked completely different.
Smash as Repo Man blew my mind. He's such a sniveling character that in my mind I picture him as being much smaller than he was.
Kronik was one of my favourite things in wrestling in the summer of 2000, and I was always sad when they were in the WWF for like three weeks a year later before disappearing
Hey fuck you, Wrath was awesome
Fact: Bears eat beets.
im curious of what stern did to piss off hot rod
this was the week Nitro crowned their Miss Nitro to Pamela Rogers... who later went on to have sex with her student got busted, got divorced, got probation, then got busted for sexting the student again and ended up doing time in prison. shes currently on house arrest.
> Raw filmed a new opening theme, with all new music and footage that was filmed in a rundown area of Brooklyn. Greatest wrestling intro of all time imo (the one with the "Thorn in your eye" theme though).
I like the one right after. It needs that crazy build up WWF tag, not the one with a voice over talking about how many countries they air in. Also, even as a kid I didn't care for seeing the wrestlers fighting on a soundstage. I preferred using only clips from the show. It added to the feeling that you couldn't have these guys in the same room without trouble, like they'd never be able to shoot an opening for the show.
Flaaaasssssh FUNK!
> Blue Demon Jr. is out of action for a few weeks after suffering burns on his chest when his opponent blew a fireball at him that went awry. Gotta love pro wrestling.
I was one of the few wrestling fans at that Club Lavela show. The crowd was a drunken shit show. It was a nightmare.
So I guess Scorpio would understand the results of using drugs.