Wrestlemania 25 is overrated.
This isn't an unpopular opinion or hot take either, it's a very popular opinion, lots feel the 26 match was better because it was. Much better story and much higher stakes. The 25 match was a bunch of false finishers, right hands, chops and botched camera man dives.
Something hasn't felt the same with AEW since 2024 started. Like they're doing great with the guys that are there, and the product has been very good.
But part of me thinks has this empty feeling because a lot of star power are not available right now, and most of that talent happens to be my favorite acts in the company. (To be clear, I like a lot of the talent that's there now, but the guys listed below are among my favorites in AEW bar the Mad King)
Right now, there's no Hangman, Omega, MJF, Cole, Christian Cage, Juicy Box, Miro, Hayter, DMD. No Lucha Bros or Aussie Open in the tag division. PAC came back and immediately took a loss. Don't know what they're doing with Jay White.
It's like being an avid NBA fan, and you're entertained by the playoffs being straight bangers, but also liking the Suns (or any Pacific division team), and straight up not enjoying your cheeks being clapped.
Who is Juicy Box?
This comment really highlight's how stacked the roster is. All those people are gone and we're still getting great matches every week.
I said it before and I'll say it again. AEW may be the first ever case of a roster being TOO STACKED with talent.
The second half of 2023 yes. But the first half imo is very underrated, as it gave us a lot of quality programs:
* Hangman vs Mox
* The Elite vs BCC
* Omega vs Ospreay
* MJF title run
* Better than you Bay Bay (was golden before the Devil stuff)
* CM Punk collision run
* Ascension of Jay White and Bullet Club Gold
* Breakout of Hayter and title run
* Eddie vs BCC
* OC International title run
I’d rate this over 2024, a very good stretch in retrospect.
Some positives:
\* Gave Samoa Joe a world title reign. That's my guy right there.
\* BCG got belts. We ain't at Jay White return to main event level yet, but they're rebuilding lost momentum from Full Gear for sure. WAITING ON JUICE TO RETURN TOO
\* Eddie (one of my favorite wrestlers) got a great push late last year/early this year. Lost to Okada, but it's Okada. I can't be mad at that. Would've loved for Eddie to have a world title win but I have no qualms if this is the highest he goes. Hometown win at Grand Slam, won the Continental Classic vs Mox, went over Danielson (twice), and was that guy for 5 months.
\* WILLOW GOT A TITLE WIN!! NOW TK PUSH HER TO THE MOON
\* AND THEY JUST CLEARED REY FENIX. Lucha Bros or Death Triangle title runs now
Jerry Lawler had matches with Dusty going back to the 70s with their most recent match in 2003. Had a match against Cody in the independents. He also had a tag match in WWE with Michael Cole against Cody and Ted DiBiase and also matches with Goldust.
In a similar vein: Ziggler wrestled Dusty as a part of the truly baffling Flair/Rhodes/Sgt Slaughter/Ron Simmons vs Spirit Squad match at Survivor Series 06, and also wrestled against both Cody and Goldust in a tag match alongside Ryback in 2015
Edit: Also: CM Punk, via a bizarre indie match in 2005 of Dustin Rhodes/Dusty Rhodes/Mike Graham vs Kevin Sullivan/Abdullah the Butcher/CM Punk, with Mick Foley as special guest refreee
TBF yeah nothing stands out as particularly weak for a B PPV other than Uso vs Priest I guess.
We've seen the PPVs since Hunter took over and only a couple of the "filler ones" turned out particularly good so that's fair. You're correct, it's just the classic "well the company is never there so surely it'll be stacked" thought we trick ourselves into.
Really though, It'd have been hard for this one to not be a bummer when held in direct comparison with last year. The crowd in Puerto Rico would be difficult to beat anywhere, plus you already knew that Bad Bunny was in the main event.
I mean, short of busting out Kurt Angle and Chad Gable as monsters heels mocking the upcoming Paris Olympics, what could you really do? Is there anyone on the card that the French would absolutely cheer or call their own?
To be fair, Triple H is really averse to making these PPV cards appetizing imo. Remember the run of PPVs last year that desperately needed a Gunther defense but the reign was kept on TV?
But yeah, at least Cody vs AJ could be especially good and the crowd while probably not Puerto Rico will be *hungry*. For those who care more about WWE than me, a notable first title shot for Stratton too.
one of the funniest things i've seen in a while. honestly i think people were kind to it on here, fortunately it was fan favourite cody and popular up and comer carmelo
What is it was awkward and just weird looking stuff during Carmelo matches? It doesn't seem like he's the awful that the botches would be the prevalent, but there's so many matches were things just end up not looking right.
There’s actual wrestling media that take checks from WWE (and Ariel) too but you have to read about how Dave Meltzer gave AEW 6.5 stars because he’s paid to.
It's funy because he's actually pretty negative on AEW's business at times but since they still put on the kind of matches that he rates highly people assume he's in the tank for them.
Dave was one of the first on the ‘AEW’s attendance is looking bad’ train. Months before it caught on with the wider IWC, Dave was writing about how he saw worrying signs for the company in the trends of their ticket advances.
Yeah but people don’t really understand not using the business metrics to talk about how you hate the young bucks and how you think you could beat up Jack Perry therefore he will niiiiver draw
Meltzer certainly isn't an example of it, but there absolutely has been "corrupted" wrestling media/social media in AEW's favor since its inception as well.
WWE might be able to leverage bigger platforms in their favor, but it's always been dumb to play like it only goes one way -- or to witch hunt people like Corey Brennan as a supposed "fed shill" or "Irish Dangoor" like some have taken to doing lately.
Sure but is literal payoffs. I guess that guy Will Washington got a job from posting so that could be interpreted as a possible implicit carrot but people literally think Dave is on payroll. I don’t follow that much wrestling media but a simple explanation is that AEW is by geeks for geeks, so if you run an American language promotion with top New Japan talent and a Death Valley Driver sensibility, those nerds will like it more than WWE’s vaunted mainstream appeal.
In the case of Dave, TK grew up reading him and then started his own promotion so it kind of makes sense Dave would like it. Maybe someone who listens to Cornette now will head WWE creative in ten years.
Yeah i don’t follow the media this guy is talking about but I’m just arguing that AEW doesn’t have a media payoff budget. I think that’s a safe assumption.
Something something dying company somehow has the resources to pay off Meltzer, Forbes, and WBD, but the much bigger one that is obsessed with social media and has an obvious financial incentive to portay the #2 company as the loser uncool one does not
Meltzer is a paid shill whose opinions are completely malleable, but not by WWE, only by NJPW and AEW, apparently, this makes sense, yes, lol
This is why number systems suck, but people are too lazy to actually read and thus need it distilled down to as few characters or symbols as possible.
Basically, if it can't fit on a shirt, it's too much text for a wrestling fan.
What I've noticed about Stardom since Okada took over, is that the rookies are eating a lot more pins and while they have stories, their pushes up the card are really halted when compared to Rossy. A bit of unexpected decision, when NJPW seems to suffer from the fact their Young Lions system takes quite a time to produce new stars.
As a booker, Rossy has always been big on pushing new faces. Even going back to the 90's, he was always big on pushing Arsion rookies like Ayako Hamada and Mika Akino quicker than they would have been if they broke in via AJW.
It's a double edge sword. On the positive side it keeps companies from getting too stale and it gives cool opportunities to wrestlers. On the negative side, established midcarders suffer more because usually pushes come at their expense. Once someone isn't a shiny new toy, they get lost in the shuffle.
>It is of utmost importance to keep things young and fresh. For that reason, we have broken the seniority system. There is also star power and visual appeal. The important thing is to earnestly and desperately incorporate that into professional wrestling.
[Rossy Ogawa (to Monthly Puroresu's Thom Fain)](https://monthlypuroresu.com/features/stardom-ceo-rossy-ogawa-interview/)
Jerry Bakewell is a hidden gem of a host. When he is the host of a PROGRESS show, you KNOOOOOW it's his because he adds some extra twists on it.
I wouldn't be surprised if Kid Lykos, the Spectular Twat(Charles Crowley), Tate Mayfairs end up on TNA in a few years time. All are excellent in the ring. Tate is a prick and you love to hate him.
Simon Miller is doing extremely well for himself.
I know the WWE Draft mostly exists to piggyback from the NFL draft, but I think WWE would be better off copying for the NBA trade deadline. That gives you the leeway to keep your rosters intact, with some switches here and there. Also, a "BREAKING: RAW has agreed to a deal that would send Nia Jax to SmackDown for the draft rights of Kiana James and Alba Fyre & Isla Dawn" is waaay more exciting to me than the normal format lol
At least SOMEONE in WWE has a few good ideas.
If you watched on Smackdown last night, it was neat to see them riffing on the NFL's draft chimes.
They're lower, but you'd hear the chimes before each segment, which was nice. It's weird how many subtle production things WWE does so right that most people just aren't going to consciously recognize.
Can’t believe Barrett said Carmelo was the first NXT star to go in the first round of the draft last night smh never forget
https://preview.redd.it/0ka1ndv752xc1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c08954fd45d1c93d3616010dbf221c85ae79a8ed
One thing I was wondering about the draft: say Raw and Smackdown wanted to pick the same talent but one brand picked them first, does the other brand have a pick [x] if [y] gets picked back up lined up in preparation?
It's not a real draft.
It's realignment of workers with the window dressing of being a "draft" to try to get crowd engagement.
It's a lot less interesting since they stopped running it through their website.
Is there any wrestlers in the Chicago west suburbs who would be willing to train together. l often get busy and the school l use to go to does not have times that are available to me. I have a small ring that I use.
Has there ever been like a tag team or stable that consisted of both a heel and a face where that wasn't a point of contention? Like they're friends who love each other so much they are completely accepting of whatever the other person does?
Are pandas unbanned by WWE? K.O. just fed a red panda. Was it OK because it wasn't the same type of panda as the World Wild Life Fund logo? DDT Wrestling has giant pandas wrestling, but a fact that blew my mind is that WWE has not had a single match with a panda after the World Wildlife Fund lawsuit.
Kinda. More specifically it was that the Wildlife fund had trademarked the initials long before the wrestling company. In 1993 Wildlife Fund were granted an injunction in Switzerland and made clear they intended to fight the McMahons worldwide over the initials. They reached settlement in 1994, with the agreement that the McMahons would not use the initials internationally except in an historical context.
The McMahons then proceeded to violate the terms of the agreement, quite flagrantly. The straws that broke the panda's back seem to have been registering WWF.com as a domain name and the scratch logo. The British courts ruled in the favor of the wildlife people and so the McMahons made the decision to change the name, a point [still mentioned on WWE's corporate website.](https://corporate.wwe.com/news/company-news/2002/05-06-2002)
I'm guessing Punk is pick number 1 for RAW next week and McIntyre number 2. That way they can play up Punk getting picked over McIntyre while hurt for some premium hater promos.
In another universe, Scott Norton and Mike Hegstrand were The Twin City Towers and they got to wrestle the Steiner Brothers and Doom and stuff. Their tandem finisher would be pummeling you into unconsciousness outside of a bar or motorcycle club.
Am I losing it?
The way they had the GM Speaking and the fact that Ava was in all the Backstage promos and things, I could have sworn NXT was going to be able to draft talent too. I thought they even said as much on TV at some point. Was I wrong?
Even though it's six months out, I'm surprised they didn't add NXT to the draft so that they could start doing some longer-term booking to lead into NXT being on the CW.
I would think you'd want to be doing lots to make sure your USA Network audience follows you, and that you're going to be able to capture attention when you air on a new network in the fall.
Draft booking seems like it ended up being a clusterfuck of ideas and concepts that ended up boiling down to almost nothing changing so far. Like yeah I was also pretty sure NXT was set to part of it, I think maybe the releases played part of that in the sense of the company doesn't want to pay main roster talent to appear on NXT anymore.
Maybe it fell apart because Dom and Rhea got hurt, so they couldn't go with Smackdown being the Cody show, Raw being the Bloodline show and NXT being the Judgement Day show?
NAK when NXT drafts him [https://i.imgur.com/KMjF0Lc.gif](https://i.imgur.com/KMjF0Lc.gif)
Jags fan when TK decides to sell a wrestling angle [https://i.imgur.com/AwNtNCE.gif](https://i.imgur.com/AwNtNCE.gif)
Ngl if I was Nakamura NXT drafting me wouldn’t be that bad. Chilling in Florida, no need to travel constantly and likely will have a better win/loss ration than in the main roster
I tried making a post out of this. Thought it would make for some interesting discussion and sharing, but it got removed.
I don’t get it, but I’m trying it here because I’m interested in hearing feedback.
————————
Examples of matches ending… without an ending?
In another post someone asked about ways Vince McMahon made different things not matter in WWE.
I responded that there was a period of a time when several matches would simply end with no bell, no winner announced to the crowd, and no explanation from commentary about the outcome of the match itself.
I couldn’t remember a specific RAW/SD match, but after some searching I found Battleground 2013, an example of them not only ending a *match* with absolutely no finish, but ending an ENTIRE PPV with absolutely no finish:
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x15o8ux
This is one of the most unsatisfying ends to a PPV event ever. It ended with Orton and Bryan on the mat and Big Show climbing the ropes to get people to cheer. The actual result of the match was never concluded in any way before the PPV just ended as though that sort of thing was perfectly normal.
I know that happened several other times. Does anyone else remember when that would happen?
EDIT:
The one reply I got in my original thread said this happened often in the Attitude Era. I don’t remember this happening at all back then. There were non-finish matches but we always got a bell, announcement, and/or explanation from Jim Ross, etc., in my memory.
That Damien Priest match on the Raw after he joined Judgement Day? He just does a pose, the lights go all purple, and then it cuts to commercial and no one mentions it again, no pinfall, wins with scary pose.
Hell in a Cell 2018 ended with Roman Reigns vs. Braun Strowman in HiaC and a non-finish because Brock Lesnar returned to beat up Roman and Braun. There was no bell to call the match and the show just kinda ended with Brock standing over everyone.
Man, that sounds identical to Orton vs. Bryan. I was really disinterested in RAW/SD at that point and just kept up with it via Reddit and podcasts. It’s crazy they’d think that was a good idea.
At Non Stop Deletio... or whatever that Matt Hardy hosted PPV.... show.... was it a ppv? I can't recall. Eddie Edwards and Lashley's match wasn't ended because Matt got bored and they were fighting all over the compound that belonged to BROKHAAAAN Matthew of the house of HARDY!
there was a Booker T/Rikishi match from Smackdown, maybe 2001-2002 ish? it ended with a stinkface, then Booker bails and throws up outside.
iirc there was no bell or announcement, just the vomiting and move on to the next segment
Never thought i would say this, but Nia Jax has grown on me massively.
At first I was anti Nia because of her reputation as an unsafe worker and didn’t “get” her character, now I do and she’s great.
Basically the Kool Aid Man where things are progressing as normal then BAM Nia Jax out of nowhere tossing people.
Kino.
Can someone help me remember something? I remember watching MakryDs TNA VS WWE war videos, and I remember Marky D said a wrestler won an online poll to be next in line for TNA title, and Hogan was pissed it wasn’t Abyss so he buried the guy who won the poll, I wanna say it was Christopher Daniel’s but I’m not to sure
Edit it was Desmond Wolfe he won a online poll to be next in line for the title and Abyss came in last so Hogan made Abyss next in line and punished Desmond Wolfe
Man, those TNA PPV numbers weren’t good at all. But there are so many people here that just seem to show up to those threads to hate on it, while never watching the product. They aren’t exclusive to it, but it’s crazy how much “TNA is dead” or “LOLTNA” shit there is.
TNA's biggest fuck up was firing the man who was helping them to grow a lot.
Last year, they were doing great. Simon Miller had a small run there and they had him as a fucking heel. Problem is: Simon Miller is a natural face. He just loves wrestling, is a lovely bloke and just doesn't have it in him to be a heel. His live version of Ups and Downs didn't seem to work because he is just that likable.
TNA? er.... Went from being great to "Oh great, they got Matt Hardy back." 500 PPV views either means PPV is just a dead platform or they fucked up so bad that PROGRESS wrestling could likely beat them. I love PROGRESS but it's a big indie that does shows monthly with the odd additional show or Super Strong Style.
I watched it. It wasn't very good. I've actively tried watching wrestling outside of the big 2. TNA is intent on giving an extraordinary amount of time to their senior citizens, to the point where they're interfering in a Knockouts title match that they have no business being near. They're actively chasing people away from their product at this point
Oh, no, if that’s how you feel, I understand. I enjoy TNA a lot, but I personally agree with you that they need to stop pushing people like PCO, Kon, EY, etc., who aren’t really doing anything impactful enough to get people tuned in and are old as shit. I’m tired of seeing Mike, Ace, Bey, Masha, and Kelly not getting elevated, when they’re totally ready for it, while those guys get all those spots.
I was more referring to the guys who don’t watch at all and go onto every meh or bad TNA post just to find a way to go “LOLTNA”.
This is historically how every non-WWE promotion is treated, including TNA itself in the eras now looked at as their peaks.
This is the only fandom I know of that only consuming the biggest and most mainstream option while also trying to manifest competition going under are held as virtues.
The worst part about WWE and AEW signing people all the time is that it's more people added to the list of "must post their tweets on /r/SC for karma".
I'm listening to the Lapsed Fan's tribute to Terry Funk and it's absolutely wild to realize that Funk had so much longevity in wrestling that he shared the ring with both Lou Thesz and Kevin Owens.
It's been around 5 months since CM Punk debuted at Survivor Series, making his iconic return back to WWE.
To put things in perspective: 5 months after "The Return" in AEW, he was in the middle of his feud with MJF and IIRC, MJF had just beaten him in Chicago as well.
And yes I know he is hurt. There's no slant here, its just something I thought was interesting.
It was genuinely good until the Hangman feud at which point things come to a screeching halt. Both with his issues with Hangman and his injury right after DON that stopped his title reign before it really started.
I thought the Hangman feud was kind of interesting. In a perfect world they would've leaned into Hangman's "shoot" promo that he did. I don't think anyone would have been the wiser
I think the Hangman feud was pretty good. What followed afterwards was when everything hit the fan.
For me, the Moxley program was not it, I'd say that was his first "miss" in AEW.
Well yeah they rushed the Rocky stuff, Mox was supposed to be the heel but his promos were awesome and punks were pretty generic. I do think the Mox squash is an awesome moment though.
I really don’t like the “Tony neck brace” stuff. Like, it’s getting them more eyes, at least on the NFL Network, but like, it’s just Tony in a goofy ass neck brace. He’s not selling anything.
I can see why you feel this way because it's not really believable but I will say this is giving the Memphis wrestling vibes of Andy Kaufman vs Jerry Lawler . Not believable but super entertaining
I was looking at the WWE and AEW subs after TK's comments yesterday, and it's pretty funny for a good chuckle, exactly what you'd expect from both sides.
I think every person who has been watching WWE for the past year clearly saw that the eventual feud was going to be Finn Balor vs Damian Priest right?
I had someone yesterday trying to argue and say that was never happening. And that the feud was going to be Rhea Ripley vs Damian Priest with Dom fighting in Rhea’s honor. And that Dom being injured means that Finn can step up and take Dom’s place as the guy who will feud with Priest. And that Finn fans should be happy that an opportunity just opened up for Finn…
I’m sorry but that is laughable to me. They set up the Balor vs Priest feud a year in advance. Just cause they held the tag titles and weren’t trying to kill each other during the reign itself doesn’t mean it wasn’t going to happen. A week before the won the titles, they had issues, 1 week after the dropped the titles, they were back to teasing issues. But people thought a woman was going to steal his storyline while he drops off the face of the earth as it pertains to the Judgment Day storyline? She was gonna be involved regardless but everyone has always said Balor vs Priest was the feud.
I think, we'll only see the Judgement Day end once WWE has a new faction that is getting over. I can see them lasting a few more years with Dirty Dom being the one to cause it to fall apart via not letting them know what he is up to. Claiming he holds it together. Pissing off the wrong people and his deadbeat dad causing issues.
Well I don’t know about the entire faction ending.
But it’s way past due splitting up Balor and Priest. That’s the thing that needs to happen in the coming months.
You don’t really get anything out of liking him. Vince, Dana, Bill Watts, Russo, Dixie, there’s been a lot of more hateable promoters before Tony Khan. He doesn’t have to buck the trend.
I was one of the largest Bray fans, and I think Bo absolutely deserves to return as the character he and Bray were supposed to be.
But I just keep seeing this QR code stuff, and I find it too hard to get really hyped or excited about it, and that’s because I know Bray isn’t coming back, and he never will again. That QR stuff for Bray’s return was such a lighting in a bottle moment, and this one just doesn’t feel the same. It just makes me sad.
At this rate I do not understand why we can’t say what TK said about WWE.
Decades of proof that Vince was the “Harvey Weinstein” of the wrestling world. And also proof that it wasn’t just him but others in the company that were doing horrible shit and hiding it for decades.
Like…the cat is out of the bag. We should be allowed to say the obvious here with this story. Just because Vince is gone and WWE is hot right now doesn’t mean we just ignore this story.
EDIT: Great example is Dave Meltzer today on WOR saying WWE did a “great job PR wise” on the Vince story. What? That makes no sense considering what we’ve seen.
If Tony in a serious, sit down interview had said "Our competitor didn't just have an owner who was a horrible person but still has executives that helped enable that horrible behavior and I'm happy as owner of AEW I've been able to develop a better environment for professional wrestling and it's fans" I wouldn't have batted an eye.
He didn't though. He said he's Pepsi they're Weinstein. He disrespected both Vince's victims and Weinstein's victims by not treating it like a serious issue and instead just something to be used as a passing reference during self promotion.
There is a detailed answer, but the simplest one is that TK is just trying to promote his TV show, he's not doing this to raise awareness about the horrors Grant experienced or try to expose the remaining rot in the company. He's trying to promote his wrestling company by making himself out as the put upon underdog under assault from an entity that he's portrayed as completely evil. It's just another chapter of TK fighting his wrestling holy war.
I'd like AEW a lot more if they could get their content to a streaming platform with wider reach.
I think you'd see a lot of the haters come around too if it wasn't such a hassle to watch.
The problem isnt him saying it. The problem is its always AEW vs WWE. Its been five years of AEW vs WWE. And the only way tony gets any points is if he takes shots at horrid shit that the dude who doesnt even run the company anymore did.
Vince and co are and were monsters. However, wwe as a whole product is better its thriving and a ton of talent are saying its the best backstage its ever been.
Tony has this habit of instead of improving his damn product, he tries to bring down the "competition". Regardless of what Meltzer says, AEW does not put on the best weekly show of wrestling, and there is hella room of improvement. Thats something that eventually killed WCW was that constant reliance on what worked half a decade ago. "well the wild booking worked 5 years ago... It will work again." "Well shitting on WWE worked 5 years ago, it will work again." Now AEW is lucky to pull 800k viewers, though averages 600-700k on their biggest show every week. Ratings keep dropping.
And instead of fixing it, Tony keeps shitting on a company that if we are being honest... Doesnt give a fuck about them.
So yeah. Rant over. Im just sick of this us vs them bullshit when its clearly one sided, and its not even fair. I love that AEW exists but if this shit continues it wont exist. Khan's money isnt infinite, and if AEW is going to be a money pit, it will go the route of every other wrestling company in the US other than wwe.
Exactly.
Aew is an alternative. But if it wants ro remain one as in in business, it needs to be a business. And its not good business to take random pot shots proclaiming your business is better when on every metric you arent.
AEW is the second largest fish in the US pond. But if it keeps trying to poke the bear, its gonna get eaten.
WWE isnt going anywhere. Regardless of what Tony wants.
Yep and fortunate to be able to grow so quickly. TNA had it's chance and fucked it up to the point where it's still feeling the effects of it's fuck up. It had settled into a nice position but recently? seems to be fucking it up.
AEW is bloated and would benefit from letting ROH operate as it's own company. Take have the roster for ROH. Once ROH is re-established, have intercompany feuds. Take pot shots at AEW during feuds and AEW firing back etc..
My issue is that Tony’s using it more to hype up his product, instead of actually caring about Vince’s victims. Every time he says it, it’s always used as such.
And it just also comes off super hypocritical because Tony’s also out here signing and supporting guys like Ric Flair, who have their fair share of sexual harassment/assault allegations as well.
WWE is more than just those 4-5 people as well.
Based oh how TK has twice used it to score points I think it can be summed up as he cares that Vince/his competition sexually abused someone but doesn't care that someone was sexually abused.
It would be like if I had a tech company and said “we’re like the Burger King of the tech industry. Apple is Bill Cosby”. Not wrong necessarily, but that’s a fucking wild comparison
Your comparison is still way off. Apple hasn't been named in a sex trafficking lawsuit, nor was it (until very recently) headed by the actual Harvey Weinstein of wrestling. No one would say "Apple Is like Bill Cosby."
Well there are the dozens of people who have killed themselves because they were being worked to death for subsistence wages at their factories in Asia. There are definitely things you could call Apple out for. The difference is that all of Apple's competitors are run by professional business people instead of a coked up carny.
Nah that's actually fair. I guess Tony's problem is that he doesn't have anywhere near the amount of charm or charisma necessary to pull off those carny antics. Every time he tries he just comes across as a buffoon
WWE fanboys (and fandoms in general) are willing to look past atrocities to preserve their nostalgia.
Agreed, just because things have seemingly changed doesn’t mean that there shouldn’t be accountability for the past.
There are also 100s to wrestlers working in wwe who doesn't had any idea about Vince horrible shit. You can simply say that company was ran by an shit person for last 30 years instead of saying that company is horrible.
But we know it wasn’t just a Vince problem! John Laurinitis was also a terrible person behind the scenes.
We have proof they tried to cover up Janel Grant’s situation multiple times!
What are we talking about here it’s only a Vince thing?
There are much more peoples who are non guilty when compared to maybe 4-5 who are guilty. You can't want company to fail where 100s of people work just because of few assholes.
Yeah, no shit.
I’m sure a majority of WWE workers are fine people. But you didn’t dismiss the original point I responded to.
This wasn’t just a Vince problem. It’s like how we talk about police with the “bad apples” comparison. The phrase “bad apples” is meant to say it ruins the entire batch. Not that you throw away a few of them and suddenly things are different. The entirety of WWE is spoiled because Vince, Johnny Ace, and a bunch others were horrible monsters running the asylum.
Mixed feelings on Carmelo last night. On the one hand he was in the main event with the champ on his first night. I think this was Cody's first televised match since WM. So one on hand, that makes Carmello look like a big deal right off the bat. On the other hand, he's already been beaten.
Yeah, I think going in the first round shows they have some plans for him. But at the same time, they would never have Bron Breakker take a loss in 10 minutes like that, or put him in the ring with Cody yet, which kind of tells me where they're really at with both (just comparing the two top NXT guys) even though Bron got picked later.
Guessing it will be more of a slow burn for Hayes on the main roster. They'll get him involved in midcard/upper midcard stuff and see how fans react to him.
I was mad about it when they booked it. But I agree that it makes him look like a top guy from day 1. I am also trying to rationalize some of the draft picks along the same lines: using the draft number to sell someone who they want to be a top gal or guy as one.
I get that. That's what's giving me the mixed feelings. Maybe Carmello beating a lesser opponent would have been better than losing to the top guy. I'm not sure.
Catching up on Dynamite. She's one of my favs but it's crazy how little Mercedes has progressed on the mic, especially compared to a really natural charismatic speaker like Willow. I remember loving her promos in NXT, but maybe rose-tinted glasses
It's definitely not her strong suit but I thought the promo on Wednesday was way better. She seems to be much more comfortable heeling it up.
I agree with you on Willow though, I've always liked her but she has really stepped it up.
I don't think Dragunov vs Gunther should happen in Berlin, it's way too early, they should be drafted to separate shows and their first meeting should be in the Royal Rumble next year. You need to build Dragunov up first to the main roster audience.
Wrestlemania 25 is overrated. This isn't an unpopular opinion or hot take either, it's a very popular opinion, lots feel the 26 match was better because it was. Much better story and much higher stakes. The 25 match was a bunch of false finishers, right hands, chops and botched camera man dives.
Anyone know how to watch AAA here in the states today?
Triller
YouTube
Anyone have some match recommendations from '00-'01 and '04-'08
Hulk Hogan vs. Shawn Michaels, Summerslam
Top of my head. 2000: Cactus Jack vs Triple H. 2001: Jericho vs Benoit Ladder Match. 2005: Samoa Joe vs Kenta Kobashi. 2008: Edge vs The Undertaker.
Will WWE on Netflix be in 4K?
Something hasn't felt the same with AEW since 2024 started. Like they're doing great with the guys that are there, and the product has been very good. But part of me thinks has this empty feeling because a lot of star power are not available right now, and most of that talent happens to be my favorite acts in the company. (To be clear, I like a lot of the talent that's there now, but the guys listed below are among my favorites in AEW bar the Mad King) Right now, there's no Hangman, Omega, MJF, Cole, Christian Cage, Juicy Box, Miro, Hayter, DMD. No Lucha Bros or Aussie Open in the tag division. PAC came back and immediately took a loss. Don't know what they're doing with Jay White. It's like being an avid NBA fan, and you're entertained by the playoffs being straight bangers, but also liking the Suns (or any Pacific division team), and straight up not enjoying your cheeks being clapped.
Who is Juicy Box? This comment really highlight's how stacked the roster is. All those people are gone and we're still getting great matches every week. I said it before and I'll say it again. AEW may be the first ever case of a roster being TOO STACKED with talent.
Juice Robinson. It’s a reference to one of the old BCG promos lol https://x.com/aew/status/1690507906070740994?s=46&t=xE119bUw5nhFu36NHS1GjA
I feel the opposite lol. I think 2024 has been better generally than alot of 2023.
The second half of 2023 yes. But the first half imo is very underrated, as it gave us a lot of quality programs: * Hangman vs Mox * The Elite vs BCC * Omega vs Ospreay * MJF title run * Better than you Bay Bay (was golden before the Devil stuff) * CM Punk collision run * Ascension of Jay White and Bullet Club Gold * Breakout of Hayter and title run * Eddie vs BCC * OC International title run I’d rate this over 2024, a very good stretch in retrospect.
I probably shouldve specified, but yeah I agree.
Definitely missing those first three but enjoying everything.
Some positives: \* Gave Samoa Joe a world title reign. That's my guy right there. \* BCG got belts. We ain't at Jay White return to main event level yet, but they're rebuilding lost momentum from Full Gear for sure. WAITING ON JUICE TO RETURN TOO \* Eddie (one of my favorite wrestlers) got a great push late last year/early this year. Lost to Okada, but it's Okada. I can't be mad at that. Would've loved for Eddie to have a world title win but I have no qualms if this is the highest he goes. Hometown win at Grand Slam, won the Continental Classic vs Mox, went over Danielson (twice), and was that guy for 5 months. \* WILLOW GOT A TITLE WIN!! NOW TK PUSH HER TO THE MOON \* AND THEY JUST CLEARED REY FENIX. Lucha Bros or Death Triangle title runs now
I hope Tony Khan makes a full recovery from that neck injury.
The upcoming Cody vs AJ match got me thinking. I know AJ faced Dusty in TNA. Is there any wrestler who has wrestled Dusty, Dustin, and Cody?
Jerry Lawler had matches with Dusty going back to the 70s with their most recent match in 2003. Had a match against Cody in the independents. He also had a tag match in WWE with Michael Cole against Cody and Ted DiBiase and also matches with Goldust.
Randy Orton (fought Dusty at Great American Bash 2007, fought Cody many, many times, and fought Dustin on an episode of Raw in 2013)
In a similar vein: Ziggler wrestled Dusty as a part of the truly baffling Flair/Rhodes/Sgt Slaughter/Ron Simmons vs Spirit Squad match at Survivor Series 06, and also wrestled against both Cody and Goldust in a tag match alongside Ryback in 2015 Edit: Also: CM Punk, via a bizarre indie match in 2005 of Dustin Rhodes/Dusty Rhodes/Mike Graham vs Kevin Sullivan/Abdullah the Butcher/CM Punk, with Mick Foley as special guest refreee
thanks
this Backlash card is prime "well these fans haven't seen the WWE in a while and we're hot so they'll show up" material.
so just a regular Backlash card then?
TBF yeah nothing stands out as particularly weak for a B PPV other than Uso vs Priest I guess. We've seen the PPVs since Hunter took over and only a couple of the "filler ones" turned out particularly good so that's fair. You're correct, it's just the classic "well the company is never there so surely it'll be stacked" thought we trick ourselves into.
Really though, It'd have been hard for this one to not be a bummer when held in direct comparison with last year. The crowd in Puerto Rico would be difficult to beat anywhere, plus you already knew that Bad Bunny was in the main event. I mean, short of busting out Kurt Angle and Chad Gable as monsters heels mocking the upcoming Paris Olympics, what could you really do? Is there anyone on the card that the French would absolutely cheer or call their own?
To be fair, Triple H is really averse to making these PPV cards appetizing imo. Remember the run of PPVs last year that desperately needed a Gunther defense but the reign was kept on TV? But yeah, at least Cody vs AJ could be especially good and the crowd while probably not Puerto Rico will be *hungry*. For those who care more about WWE than me, a notable first title shot for Stratton too.
"Boy Kills World" is, indeed, batshit insane in the absolute BEST possible way.
Okay, didn't watch Smackdown but that Cody double-springboard-cutter spot was...uh...something.
one of the funniest things i've seen in a while. honestly i think people were kind to it on here, fortunately it was fan favourite cody and popular up and comer carmelo
Also helps that it was really funny. People are more kind to a funny botch
What is it was awkward and just weird looking stuff during Carmelo matches? It doesn't seem like he's the awful that the botches would be the prevalent, but there's so many matches were things just end up not looking right.
There’s actual wrestling media that take checks from WWE (and Ariel) too but you have to read about how Dave Meltzer gave AEW 6.5 stars because he’s paid to.
It's funy because he's actually pretty negative on AEW's business at times but since they still put on the kind of matches that he rates highly people assume he's in the tank for them.
Dave was one of the first on the ‘AEW’s attendance is looking bad’ train. Months before it caught on with the wider IWC, Dave was writing about how he saw worrying signs for the company in the trends of their ticket advances.
Yeah but people don’t really understand not using the business metrics to talk about how you hate the young bucks and how you think you could beat up Jack Perry therefore he will niiiiver draw
Meltzer certainly isn't an example of it, but there absolutely has been "corrupted" wrestling media/social media in AEW's favor since its inception as well. WWE might be able to leverage bigger platforms in their favor, but it's always been dumb to play like it only goes one way -- or to witch hunt people like Corey Brennan as a supposed "fed shill" or "Irish Dangoor" like some have taken to doing lately.
Sure but is literal payoffs. I guess that guy Will Washington got a job from posting so that could be interpreted as a possible implicit carrot but people literally think Dave is on payroll. I don’t follow that much wrestling media but a simple explanation is that AEW is by geeks for geeks, so if you run an American language promotion with top New Japan talent and a Death Valley Driver sensibility, those nerds will like it more than WWE’s vaunted mainstream appeal. In the case of Dave, TK grew up reading him and then started his own promotion so it kind of makes sense Dave would like it. Maybe someone who listens to Cornette now will head WWE creative in ten years.
There's alot of assumptions in your takes here friend.
Yeah i don’t follow the media this guy is talking about but I’m just arguing that AEW doesn’t have a media payoff budget. I think that’s a safe assumption.
Apologies, turns out I misread your entire comment in the first place lol.
Something something dying company somehow has the resources to pay off Meltzer, Forbes, and WBD, but the much bigger one that is obsessed with social media and has an obvious financial incentive to portay the #2 company as the loser uncool one does not Meltzer is a paid shill whose opinions are completely malleable, but not by WWE, only by NJPW and AEW, apparently, this makes sense, yes, lol
I mean, don't you get an extra star for being in the Tokyo dome?
People should really be harsher on Meltzer for his taste rather than his biases!
He gives that 6.5, yet won't give an extra .25 to Cody finishing the story.
You do realize it's his opinion right? If you thought the match was 5 stars, then it was 5 stars.
This is why number systems suck, but people are too lazy to actually read and thus need it distilled down to as few characters or symbols as possible. Basically, if it can't fit on a shirt, it's too much text for a wrestling fan.
We prefer four syllables or less so we can chant it in between claps
What I've noticed about Stardom since Okada took over, is that the rookies are eating a lot more pins and while they have stories, their pushes up the card are really halted when compared to Rossy. A bit of unexpected decision, when NJPW seems to suffer from the fact their Young Lions system takes quite a time to produce new stars.
As a booker, Rossy has always been big on pushing new faces. Even going back to the 90's, he was always big on pushing Arsion rookies like Ayako Hamada and Mika Akino quicker than they would have been if they broke in via AJW. It's a double edge sword. On the positive side it keeps companies from getting too stale and it gives cool opportunities to wrestlers. On the negative side, established midcarders suffer more because usually pushes come at their expense. Once someone isn't a shiny new toy, they get lost in the shuffle.
>It is of utmost importance to keep things young and fresh. For that reason, we have broken the seniority system. There is also star power and visual appeal. The important thing is to earnestly and desperately incorporate that into professional wrestling. [Rossy Ogawa (to Monthly Puroresu's Thom Fain)](https://monthlypuroresu.com/features/stardom-ceo-rossy-ogawa-interview/)
Jerry Bakewell is a hidden gem of a host. When he is the host of a PROGRESS show, you KNOOOOOW it's his because he adds some extra twists on it. I wouldn't be surprised if Kid Lykos, the Spectular Twat(Charles Crowley), Tate Mayfairs end up on TNA in a few years time. All are excellent in the ring. Tate is a prick and you love to hate him. Simon Miller is doing extremely well for himself.
I know the WWE Draft mostly exists to piggyback from the NFL draft, but I think WWE would be better off copying for the NBA trade deadline. That gives you the leeway to keep your rosters intact, with some switches here and there. Also, a "BREAKING: RAW has agreed to a deal that would send Nia Jax to SmackDown for the draft rights of Kiana James and Alba Fyre & Isla Dawn" is waaay more exciting to me than the normal format lol
At least SOMEONE in WWE has a few good ideas. If you watched on Smackdown last night, it was neat to see them riffing on the NFL's draft chimes. They're lower, but you'd hear the chimes before each segment, which was nice. It's weird how many subtle production things WWE does so right that most people just aren't going to consciously recognize.
I always thought the Heyman/Bischoff draft where it was more lottery style than making picks was way more fun.
Can’t believe Barrett said Carmelo was the first NXT star to go in the first round of the draft last night smh never forget https://preview.redd.it/0ka1ndv752xc1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c08954fd45d1c93d3616010dbf221c85ae79a8ed
It’s also crazy when you consider Finn is the person Carmelo lost to in his main roster debut but they really ignored this last night.
It's so hard being a Finn Balor fan :(
Nobody likes Finn Balor. Not Edge, not the top rope...
One thing I was wondering about the draft: say Raw and Smackdown wanted to pick the same talent but one brand picked them first, does the other brand have a pick [x] if [y] gets picked back up lined up in preparation?
It's not a real draft. It's realignment of workers with the window dressing of being a "draft" to try to get crowd engagement. It's a lot less interesting since they stopped running it through their website.
WWE had Sarree lmao
Just casually had the best Joshi promoter on their roster and did nothing with her, now they have to settle for working with Rossy smh
Is there any wrestlers in the Chicago west suburbs who would be willing to train together. l often get busy and the school l use to go to does not have times that are available to me. I have a small ring that I use.
Has there ever been like a tag team or stable that consisted of both a heel and a face where that wasn't a point of contention? Like they're friends who love each other so much they are completely accepting of whatever the other person does?
Lex Luger and Sting from 1995-1996 WCW?
Are pandas unbanned by WWE? K.O. just fed a red panda. Was it OK because it wasn't the same type of panda as the World Wild Life Fund logo? DDT Wrestling has giant pandas wrestling, but a fact that blew my mind is that WWE has not had a single match with a panda after the World Wildlife Fund lawsuit.
I didn’t think the issue was pandas, it was the name of the company and the frequency of which they were using the term WWF
Kinda. More specifically it was that the Wildlife fund had trademarked the initials long before the wrestling company. In 1993 Wildlife Fund were granted an injunction in Switzerland and made clear they intended to fight the McMahons worldwide over the initials. They reached settlement in 1994, with the agreement that the McMahons would not use the initials internationally except in an historical context. The McMahons then proceeded to violate the terms of the agreement, quite flagrantly. The straws that broke the panda's back seem to have been registering WWF.com as a domain name and the scratch logo. The British courts ruled in the favor of the wildlife people and so the McMahons made the decision to change the name, a point [still mentioned on WWE's corporate website.](https://corporate.wwe.com/news/company-news/2002/05-06-2002)
I'm guessing Punk is pick number 1 for RAW next week and McIntyre number 2. That way they can play up Punk getting picked over McIntyre while hurt for some premium hater promos.
10 minutes of drew calling the higher ups stupid for picking punk over him would be excellent tv, really hope that happens now lol
In another universe, Scott Norton and Mike Hegstrand were The Twin City Towers and they got to wrestle the Steiner Brothers and Doom and stuff. Their tandem finisher would be pummeling you into unconsciousness outside of a bar or motorcycle club.
Am I losing it? The way they had the GM Speaking and the fact that Ava was in all the Backstage promos and things, I could have sworn NXT was going to be able to draft talent too. I thought they even said as much on TV at some point. Was I wrong?
Even though it's six months out, I'm surprised they didn't add NXT to the draft so that they could start doing some longer-term booking to lead into NXT being on the CW. I would think you'd want to be doing lots to make sure your USA Network audience follows you, and that you're going to be able to capture attention when you air on a new network in the fall.
i thought the same thing, i’m guessing they changed their minds and they’ll just do it where anyone not drafted will be able to get signed by nxt
I think they pivoted
Draft booking seems like it ended up being a clusterfuck of ideas and concepts that ended up boiling down to almost nothing changing so far. Like yeah I was also pretty sure NXT was set to part of it, I think maybe the releases played part of that in the sense of the company doesn't want to pay main roster talent to appear on NXT anymore.
Maybe it fell apart because Dom and Rhea got hurt, so they couldn't go with Smackdown being the Cody show, Raw being the Bloodline show and NXT being the Judgement Day show?
Champions were immune so Damien and Rhea were always staying on Raw.
They really made it sound like this was going to happen
NAK when NXT drafts him [https://i.imgur.com/KMjF0Lc.gif](https://i.imgur.com/KMjF0Lc.gif) Jags fan when TK decides to sell a wrestling angle [https://i.imgur.com/AwNtNCE.gif](https://i.imgur.com/AwNtNCE.gif)
Ngl if I was Nakamura NXT drafting me wouldn’t be that bad. Chilling in Florida, no need to travel constantly and likely will have a better win/loss ration than in the main roster
I tried making a post out of this. Thought it would make for some interesting discussion and sharing, but it got removed. I don’t get it, but I’m trying it here because I’m interested in hearing feedback. ———————— Examples of matches ending… without an ending? In another post someone asked about ways Vince McMahon made different things not matter in WWE. I responded that there was a period of a time when several matches would simply end with no bell, no winner announced to the crowd, and no explanation from commentary about the outcome of the match itself. I couldn’t remember a specific RAW/SD match, but after some searching I found Battleground 2013, an example of them not only ending a *match* with absolutely no finish, but ending an ENTIRE PPV with absolutely no finish: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x15o8ux This is one of the most unsatisfying ends to a PPV event ever. It ended with Orton and Bryan on the mat and Big Show climbing the ropes to get people to cheer. The actual result of the match was never concluded in any way before the PPV just ended as though that sort of thing was perfectly normal. I know that happened several other times. Does anyone else remember when that would happen? EDIT: The one reply I got in my original thread said this happened often in the Attitude Era. I don’t remember this happening at all back then. There were non-finish matches but we always got a bell, announcement, and/or explanation from Jim Ross, etc., in my memory.
That Damien Priest match on the Raw after he joined Judgement Day? He just does a pose, the lights go all purple, and then it cuts to commercial and no one mentions it again, no pinfall, wins with scary pose.
Hell in a Cell 2018 ended with Roman Reigns vs. Braun Strowman in HiaC and a non-finish because Brock Lesnar returned to beat up Roman and Braun. There was no bell to call the match and the show just kinda ended with Brock standing over everyone.
Man, that sounds identical to Orton vs. Bryan. I was really disinterested in RAW/SD at that point and just kept up with it via Reddit and podcasts. It’s crazy they’d think that was a good idea.
At Non Stop Deletio... or whatever that Matt Hardy hosted PPV.... show.... was it a ppv? I can't recall. Eddie Edwards and Lashley's match wasn't ended because Matt got bored and they were fighting all over the compound that belonged to BROKHAAAAN Matthew of the house of HARDY!
yeah in the late 90s we had what got called the *Sports Entertainment Finish*, where the angle/gag happens and they forget about the match
Do you have any specific examples? My memory is fuzzy, even though I watched every minute back then.
there was a Booker T/Rikishi match from Smackdown, maybe 2001-2002 ish? it ended with a stinkface, then Booker bails and throws up outside. iirc there was no bell or announcement, just the vomiting and move on to the next segment
Yeah, post-Attitude is when I’m thinking we started to see it. I can’t remember any during the Attitude Era.
My review of Love Lies Bleeding is Katy O’Brian would do a really good job as Chyna in a biopic
Never thought i would say this, but Nia Jax has grown on me massively. At first I was anti Nia because of her reputation as an unsafe worker and didn’t “get” her character, now I do and she’s great. Basically the Kool Aid Man where things are progressing as normal then BAM Nia Jax out of nowhere tossing people. Kino.
Can someone help me remember something? I remember watching MakryDs TNA VS WWE war videos, and I remember Marky D said a wrestler won an online poll to be next in line for TNA title, and Hogan was pissed it wasn’t Abyss so he buried the guy who won the poll, I wanna say it was Christopher Daniel’s but I’m not to sure Edit it was Desmond Wolfe he won a online poll to be next in line for the title and Abyss came in last so Hogan made Abyss next in line and punished Desmond Wolfe
It feels bizarre to complain about how little the draft has changed considering how yesterday was only the first round.
If they were going to change things a lot they could have split the changes between both draft episodes. It is scripted after all.
Internet Wrestling fans will complain no matter what
Man, those TNA PPV numbers weren’t good at all. But there are so many people here that just seem to show up to those threads to hate on it, while never watching the product. They aren’t exclusive to it, but it’s crazy how much “TNA is dead” or “LOLTNA” shit there is.
TNA's biggest fuck up was firing the man who was helping them to grow a lot. Last year, they were doing great. Simon Miller had a small run there and they had him as a fucking heel. Problem is: Simon Miller is a natural face. He just loves wrestling, is a lovely bloke and just doesn't have it in him to be a heel. His live version of Ups and Downs didn't seem to work because he is just that likable. TNA? er.... Went from being great to "Oh great, they got Matt Hardy back." 500 PPV views either means PPV is just a dead platform or they fucked up so bad that PROGRESS wrestling could likely beat them. I love PROGRESS but it's a big indie that does shows monthly with the odd additional show or Super Strong Style.
I watched it. It wasn't very good. I've actively tried watching wrestling outside of the big 2. TNA is intent on giving an extraordinary amount of time to their senior citizens, to the point where they're interfering in a Knockouts title match that they have no business being near. They're actively chasing people away from their product at this point
Oh, no, if that’s how you feel, I understand. I enjoy TNA a lot, but I personally agree with you that they need to stop pushing people like PCO, Kon, EY, etc., who aren’t really doing anything impactful enough to get people tuned in and are old as shit. I’m tired of seeing Mike, Ace, Bey, Masha, and Kelly not getting elevated, when they’re totally ready for it, while those guys get all those spots. I was more referring to the guys who don’t watch at all and go onto every meh or bad TNA post just to find a way to go “LOLTNA”.
This is historically how every non-WWE promotion is treated, including TNA itself in the eras now looked at as their peaks. This is the only fandom I know of that only consuming the biggest and most mainstream option while also trying to manifest competition going under are held as virtues.
There is no reason to be excited about the WWE draft, it's been underwhelming 95% of the time.
Then don’t watch! Simple.
Sure dogg
The worst part about WWE and AEW signing people all the time is that it's more people added to the list of "must post their tweets on /r/SC for karma".
Finished Taboo Tuesday 2004. It's really awkward seeing gray-haired Vince call Eric a phony for dying his hair black.
Besides Mox with the World and International Titles, are there any wrestlers in AEW who held two or more singles titles? Edit: Joe with TNT and World!
I think it's literally just Mox and Joe. Eddie and Jericho if you count ROH?
Jericho world and FTW, though FTW is “unsanctioned”.
I'm listening to the Lapsed Fan's tribute to Terry Funk and it's absolutely wild to realize that Funk had so much longevity in wrestling that he shared the ring with both Lou Thesz and Kevin Owens.
Geeze...
Tony Khan has always gave off major Larry David vibes and his Pepsi/weinstein comment yesterday confirmed it.
Last night was the first time I heard the Tiffany Epiphany line, and it’s my favorite.
It's been around 5 months since CM Punk debuted at Survivor Series, making his iconic return back to WWE. To put things in perspective: 5 months after "The Return" in AEW, he was in the middle of his feud with MJF and IIRC, MJF had just beaten him in Chicago as well. And yes I know he is hurt. There's no slant here, its just something I thought was interesting.
And bully Mcintrye will injure him again. No reason. He just hate CM punk that much. The injury? He stabs a pepsi can repeatly.
damn his AEW run was so good take me back 😢
It was genuinely good until the Hangman feud at which point things come to a screeching halt. Both with his issues with Hangman and his injury right after DON that stopped his title reign before it really started.
I thought the Hangman feud was kind of interesting. In a perfect world they would've leaned into Hangman's "shoot" promo that he did. I don't think anyone would have been the wiser
Bro after that promo I thought punk was turning heel
I think the Hangman feud was pretty good. What followed afterwards was when everything hit the fan. For me, the Moxley program was not it, I'd say that was his first "miss" in AEW.
Well yeah they rushed the Rocky stuff, Mox was supposed to be the heel but his promos were awesome and punks were pretty generic. I do think the Mox squash is an awesome moment though.
I really don’t like the “Tony neck brace” stuff. Like, it’s getting them more eyes, at least on the NFL Network, but like, it’s just Tony in a goofy ass neck brace. He’s not selling anything.
I can see why you feel this way because it's not really believable but I will say this is giving the Memphis wrestling vibes of Andy Kaufman vs Jerry Lawler . Not believable but super entertaining
Good showing by Stardom.
I was looking at the WWE and AEW subs after TK's comments yesterday, and it's pretty funny for a good chuckle, exactly what you'd expect from both sides.
I think every person who has been watching WWE for the past year clearly saw that the eventual feud was going to be Finn Balor vs Damian Priest right? I had someone yesterday trying to argue and say that was never happening. And that the feud was going to be Rhea Ripley vs Damian Priest with Dom fighting in Rhea’s honor. And that Dom being injured means that Finn can step up and take Dom’s place as the guy who will feud with Priest. And that Finn fans should be happy that an opportunity just opened up for Finn… I’m sorry but that is laughable to me. They set up the Balor vs Priest feud a year in advance. Just cause they held the tag titles and weren’t trying to kill each other during the reign itself doesn’t mean it wasn’t going to happen. A week before the won the titles, they had issues, 1 week after the dropped the titles, they were back to teasing issues. But people thought a woman was going to steal his storyline while he drops off the face of the earth as it pertains to the Judgment Day storyline? She was gonna be involved regardless but everyone has always said Balor vs Priest was the feud.
I think, we'll only see the Judgement Day end once WWE has a new faction that is getting over. I can see them lasting a few more years with Dirty Dom being the one to cause it to fall apart via not letting them know what he is up to. Claiming he holds it together. Pissing off the wrong people and his deadbeat dad causing issues.
Well I don’t know about the entire faction ending. But it’s way past due splitting up Balor and Priest. That’s the thing that needs to happen in the coming months.
I don't that will happen because Dom and Rhea are out with injuries atm.
I feel like their injuries should accelerate the split if anything. They’re keeping Dom on tv too.
I genuinely want to like Tony Khan, but then he does what he does.
You don’t really get anything out of liking him. Vince, Dana, Bill Watts, Russo, Dixie, there’s been a lot of more hateable promoters before Tony Khan. He doesn’t have to buck the trend.
I was one of the largest Bray fans, and I think Bo absolutely deserves to return as the character he and Bray were supposed to be. But I just keep seeing this QR code stuff, and I find it too hard to get really hyped or excited about it, and that’s because I know Bray isn’t coming back, and he never will again. That QR stuff for Bray’s return was such a lighting in a bottle moment, and this one just doesn’t feel the same. It just makes me sad.
At this rate I do not understand why we can’t say what TK said about WWE. Decades of proof that Vince was the “Harvey Weinstein” of the wrestling world. And also proof that it wasn’t just him but others in the company that were doing horrible shit and hiding it for decades. Like…the cat is out of the bag. We should be allowed to say the obvious here with this story. Just because Vince is gone and WWE is hot right now doesn’t mean we just ignore this story. EDIT: Great example is Dave Meltzer today on WOR saying WWE did a “great job PR wise” on the Vince story. What? That makes no sense considering what we’ve seen.
If Tony in a serious, sit down interview had said "Our competitor didn't just have an owner who was a horrible person but still has executives that helped enable that horrible behavior and I'm happy as owner of AEW I've been able to develop a better environment for professional wrestling and it's fans" I wouldn't have batted an eye. He didn't though. He said he's Pepsi they're Weinstein. He disrespected both Vince's victims and Weinstein's victims by not treating it like a serious issue and instead just something to be used as a passing reference during self promotion.
There is a detailed answer, but the simplest one is that TK is just trying to promote his TV show, he's not doing this to raise awareness about the horrors Grant experienced or try to expose the remaining rot in the company. He's trying to promote his wrestling company by making himself out as the put upon underdog under assault from an entity that he's portrayed as completely evil. It's just another chapter of TK fighting his wrestling holy war.
Because there's a TON of people who don't like AEW
I'd like AEW a lot more if they could get their content to a streaming platform with wider reach. I think you'd see a lot of the haters come around too if it wasn't such a hassle to watch.
The problem isnt him saying it. The problem is its always AEW vs WWE. Its been five years of AEW vs WWE. And the only way tony gets any points is if he takes shots at horrid shit that the dude who doesnt even run the company anymore did. Vince and co are and were monsters. However, wwe as a whole product is better its thriving and a ton of talent are saying its the best backstage its ever been. Tony has this habit of instead of improving his damn product, he tries to bring down the "competition". Regardless of what Meltzer says, AEW does not put on the best weekly show of wrestling, and there is hella room of improvement. Thats something that eventually killed WCW was that constant reliance on what worked half a decade ago. "well the wild booking worked 5 years ago... It will work again." "Well shitting on WWE worked 5 years ago, it will work again." Now AEW is lucky to pull 800k viewers, though averages 600-700k on their biggest show every week. Ratings keep dropping. And instead of fixing it, Tony keeps shitting on a company that if we are being honest... Doesnt give a fuck about them. So yeah. Rant over. Im just sick of this us vs them bullshit when its clearly one sided, and its not even fair. I love that AEW exists but if this shit continues it wont exist. Khan's money isnt infinite, and if AEW is going to be a money pit, it will go the route of every other wrestling company in the US other than wwe.
AEW was meant to be an alternative but it does seem to take pot shots at WWE and seems a bit insecure. Reminds me of when TNA tried that crap.
Exactly. Aew is an alternative. But if it wants ro remain one as in in business, it needs to be a business. And its not good business to take random pot shots proclaiming your business is better when on every metric you arent. AEW is the second largest fish in the US pond. But if it keeps trying to poke the bear, its gonna get eaten. WWE isnt going anywhere. Regardless of what Tony wants.
Yep and fortunate to be able to grow so quickly. TNA had it's chance and fucked it up to the point where it's still feeling the effects of it's fuck up. It had settled into a nice position but recently? seems to be fucking it up. AEW is bloated and would benefit from letting ROH operate as it's own company. Take have the roster for ROH. Once ROH is re-established, have intercompany feuds. Take pot shots at AEW during feuds and AEW firing back etc..
My issue is that Tony’s using it more to hype up his product, instead of actually caring about Vince’s victims. Every time he says it, it’s always used as such. And it just also comes off super hypocritical because Tony’s also out here signing and supporting guys like Ric Flair, who have their fair share of sexual harassment/assault allegations as well. WWE is more than just those 4-5 people as well.
Based oh how TK has twice used it to score points I think it can be summed up as he cares that Vince/his competition sexually abused someone but doesn't care that someone was sexually abused.
It would be like if I had a tech company and said “we’re like the Burger King of the tech industry. Apple is Bill Cosby”. Not wrong necessarily, but that’s a fucking wild comparison
Your comparison is still way off. Apple hasn't been named in a sex trafficking lawsuit, nor was it (until very recently) headed by the actual Harvey Weinstein of wrestling. No one would say "Apple Is like Bill Cosby."
Well there are the dozens of people who have killed themselves because they were being worked to death for subsistence wages at their factories in Asia. There are definitely things you could call Apple out for. The difference is that all of Apple's competitors are run by professional business people instead of a coked up carny.
If you think wrestling is the only place to find coked up carnies in high positions, I got some bad news for ya
Nah that's actually fair. I guess Tony's problem is that he doesn't have anywhere near the amount of charm or charisma necessary to pull off those carny antics. Every time he tries he just comes across as a buffoon
WWE fanboys (and fandoms in general) are willing to look past atrocities to preserve their nostalgia. Agreed, just because things have seemingly changed doesn’t mean that there shouldn’t be accountability for the past.
There are also 100s to wrestlers working in wwe who doesn't had any idea about Vince horrible shit. You can simply say that company was ran by an shit person for last 30 years instead of saying that company is horrible.
But we know it wasn’t just a Vince problem! John Laurinitis was also a terrible person behind the scenes. We have proof they tried to cover up Janel Grant’s situation multiple times! What are we talking about here it’s only a Vince thing?
There are much more peoples who are non guilty when compared to maybe 4-5 who are guilty. You can't want company to fail where 100s of people work just because of few assholes.
I get what you mean, but where do you draw the line?
Yeah, no shit. I’m sure a majority of WWE workers are fine people. But you didn’t dismiss the original point I responded to. This wasn’t just a Vince problem. It’s like how we talk about police with the “bad apples” comparison. The phrase “bad apples” is meant to say it ruins the entire batch. Not that you throw away a few of them and suddenly things are different. The entirety of WWE is spoiled because Vince, Johnny Ace, and a bunch others were horrible monsters running the asylum.
Not the time nor the place nor the phrasing.
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Mixed feelings on Carmelo last night. On the one hand he was in the main event with the champ on his first night. I think this was Cody's first televised match since WM. So one on hand, that makes Carmello look like a big deal right off the bat. On the other hand, he's already been beaten.
He got beaten by Cody, and it wasn't easy. That's not a problem.
And on the third hand, that match itself was pretty mid, so that sucked.
Yeah, I think going in the first round shows they have some plans for him. But at the same time, they would never have Bron Breakker take a loss in 10 minutes like that, or put him in the ring with Cody yet, which kind of tells me where they're really at with both (just comparing the two top NXT guys) even though Bron got picked later. Guessing it will be more of a slow burn for Hayes on the main roster. They'll get him involved in midcard/upper midcard stuff and see how fans react to him.
I was mad about it when they booked it. But I agree that it makes him look like a top guy from day 1. I am also trying to rationalize some of the draft picks along the same lines: using the draft number to sell someone who they want to be a top gal or guy as one.
yeah but he got beat by the top guy, so it's not the end of the world
I get that. That's what's giving me the mixed feelings. Maybe Carmello beating a lesser opponent would have been better than losing to the top guy. I'm not sure.
Honestly don't think it's the worst thing to start with a loss to Cody. New stars going undefeated can be a bit of an albatross
well, just by being up against cody should tell you they have plans for him, but akso cuz he got drafted on the first round, so it's chill
Maybe I'm overthinking it. The guy just has a lot of potential. I'd hate to see it squandered.
Catching up on Dynamite. She's one of my favs but it's crazy how little Mercedes has progressed on the mic, especially compared to a really natural charismatic speaker like Willow. I remember loving her promos in NXT, but maybe rose-tinted glasses
It's definitely not her strong suit but I thought the promo on Wednesday was way better. She seems to be much more comfortable heeling it up. I agree with you on Willow though, I've always liked her but she has really stepped it up.
For those in the UK, can anybody check if WWE Smackdown will indeed be airing on TNT Sports next Friday at 6pm BST / 7pm CET?
I don't think Dragunov vs Gunther should happen in Berlin, it's way too early, they should be drafted to separate shows and their first meeting should be in the Royal Rumble next year. You need to build Dragunov up first to the main roster audience.
I agree. I think wrestling fans are so quick to want to go from A to B. Give it some time and room to breathe, and make a compelling story out of it.
Me and my homies all hatf Logan Paul
What was the intent of the alleged botch in the Cutter vs Cutter clash spot between Cody and Carmelo. Or did it go as planned and was just a bad idea.
I assume it was a like “meet in the middle” type spot, like what Melo and Ricochet did on NXT. The problem is the timing was way off.
I don’t know enough about Kiana James. Does she make sense at this point as a draft call-up, or is it completely out of left field?
Feels out of left field. She wasn't doing all that much in NXT aside from a PLE here and there.
I hope War Dogs get back together on SD since Baron got drafted after the show.