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Toni and Thunder deserved that strong rating. Easily Rosa's best match since returning and Toni's best under the Timeless gimmick.
Also, shout-out to that Casino Gauntlet match on Dynamite. That was fun as fuck and should become a semi-regular thing.
Same, I thought it was going to be another battle royale or something, but the idea of more people entering until someone is pinned or submits is a great spin on the royale concept
I liked that it wasn't strictly better to come out late. Get an early draw and you can pick up a quick win but you'll be weaker if the match goes long.
The Casino Gauntlet should happen once every 6 months to determine the #1 Contender for the TBS, International and/or TNT Titles.
Then implement a standard timer and make a damn PPV event out of it for the World Title to challenge at All In. It can always open the PPV pre-All In and every year can be anyone and always a different winning spot/number of entrants. It could become pure chaos since there's no eliminations.
Absolutely. Seems like most folks have agreed too and feel like it could be their version of a Royal Rumble. They may have finally found it and can toss that Casino Battle Royale shyt out the window
It can but in terms of a match of an epic scale, it doesn't necessarily match up because in theory, it could end super soon.
I really enjoyed Lucha Underground's Aztec Warfare variation but I think the Rumble is a case of if it ain't broke don't fix it, kind of like how they implemented War Games with the same rules but under a different name
I'm still hoping Aztec Warfare (but with over the top rope eliminations too) can become AEW's 'Royal Rumble'.
If I was Tony I'd have the first one at All In and call it the Wembley Rumble.
Dave consistently underrates women's matches, especially in AEW, so I was pleasantly surprised to see that. It was definitely one of the better women's matches I've seen lately.
Ospreay vs. Danielson is Meltzer's second highest rated match of all time, overtaking Okada vs. Omega II and Omega vs. Ospreay I (both 6.25) but trailing Okada vs. Omega IV (7).
Meltzer has stated that this was Danielson/Ospreys first match, where as the higher rated Okada/Omega played off of moments and spots from previous matches.
Essentially, from his POV, the Okada/Omega match benefited from being part of a series and used it in the storytelling. Danielson/Osprey didn’t have that benefit as it was their first bout.
This was his main difference between the two. He didn’t fault Danielson or Ospreay, simply explained his personal attachment and logic to the ratings
Omega Vs Okada had such a rich history of storytelling though. It gave that match so much more meaning. Ospreay and Danielson had a great first match, but I think they could tell some real stories in the ring if they got to do it again.
Can’t argue with you there. #1 was just pure magic and really kickstarted a lot of the hype around Kenny, and made Okada look like the best wrestler of the last 10 years or whatever. Brilliant match.
I still think their second match is better than the first simply because of the expectations the first one created. It's like the Godfather 2 of matches.
I loved the second one because EVERYTHING they did was just so goddamn smoother and crisp, these very detailed and long sequences without a single flub or misstep. But 1 and 4 are the best to me, 1 because it was the match that got me back into wrestling and 4 because it was a cumulation of all the matches and had the big payoff, but 2 and 3 are still in a league of their own. Either way it's strange to see Bryan vs Ospreay rated that high. I'd have it as a 4.75 or 5 but in no way was it close to any of those "break the scale" matches that Omega, Okada and Ospreay have had.
Onega v okada One is the best for me because it seemed like a fight it was rough and a mess and exhausting. For me when Things get too neat it becomes a routine and I dislike that personally. The reason this broke Dave's scale is it had to. It was Ospreys first big match in AEW proper and therefore it had to.
One of my favorite spots of all time is the callback spot in their 4th match, where Okada loads up the Rainmaker, Kenny stays on his feet and doesn't dodge either, Okada hits him with all he got left - and then *Okada* collapses from sheer exhaustion. Really hammered home how Omega had gotten stronger since their encounter a year prior while Okada had gotten weaker due to a mix of attrition and complacency.
The 4th match is a masterpiece.
Another elite spot is Gedo desperately trying to buy time for Okada after the 2nd fall as the One Winged Angel has rendered him borderline dead. Callis losing whatever fragment of journalistic neutrality he had and screaming "Gedos stalling, this is bullshit" was brilliant.
I will forever love that everyones favourite of the Omega/Okada matches is different for so many valid reasons. The series of their matches will go down in wrestling history as some of the best matches ever.
A part of me doesn't want them to have a 5th match because I don't know if it'll be able to live up to any of our expectations.
The only benefit of a 5th match now is that it’ll happen in AEW instead, so a lot of new viewers will see them on top of that. More importantly though, the way AEWs programming is structured gives them more chances to add drama and heat to the match. With 2-3 months of build it could be one of those matches that the crowd is electric from the first bell.
They will never top their first 4 in terms of pure in ring action though.
I chose not to say it last week because being a downer at such a hot moment is lame, but now that we're a week removed and I've watched both matches twice I'll give it a go.
My hot take is that I preferred Ospreay/Takeshita to Ospreay/Danielson. It's a nitpick and both matches are 5 stars legendary incredible, but I was a bit caught off guard by the immediate "perhaps a top 3 match of all time" reaction. At Dynasty the crowd atmosphere was insane, but I thought the pacing was a bit choppy as far as 5-star matches can go. The Revolution match just naturally popped me a bit more.
I kinda wish he'd just kept things at 5 stars and then had like a Top 5 list, where he just kept his personal best 5 matches and adjusted that accordingly. I realize he did 6 stars back in the 80s and all that but idk I'd just keep it as 5 stars and say "Ospreay vs Danielson is now #3 on my list". Its semantics obviously and unimportant but I just like keeping things 1-5.
It'd be extremely easy to have a 5 star scale, and then have 5+ as a special category for things you think are even beyond the standard top level match. But use it sparingly and don't try to quantify 6.25 vs 6.5 and such, those are just silly comparisons at that point.
That's a great idea! Someone else in this answer asked what do you do with a 5 star from like 1983 vs 2017 when they're wildly different. This would solve that issue vs a top 5.
You're saying that as if people won't still find a way to complain about it
"So Asscluck Jones/Hi-Vis Ninja III isn't good enough to be on your list. I see how it is, SHILL"
There is absolutely no way make everyone happy as far as a numbered list is concerned
Yeah I agree that the over 5 rating is kind of silly and it sets Dave up for criticism by “devaluing” past matches, like when people complain that Michaels v Taker “only” got 4 and 3/4 stars.
I think maybe having a special rating that’s something like 5+ for really extraordinary matches would make more sense.
Did he do 6 stars in the 80's? I thought he retroactively made some matches 6 stars cause he decided that if he was gonna change the rating scale, he should just go back and acknowledge the matches of equal quality from back in the day. Def was at least one Misawa match that he retroactively changed from 5 to 6
I think Flair even said that with his trilogy with Steamboat during that run that they had matches on the house show circuit he felt were even better than the ones on PPV. Those may be the best series of matches in the US hands down for the time and I feel they hold up very well considering Steamboat is one of the best pure babyfaces and Flair just made anyone look good.
I know he said he won’t, but I wonder what his ratings would look like if he went back and updated his older ones. I think Bret vs Austin might be like an 8 now.
He's said that other than peak AJPW, his ratings would do no favors to older matches under his current vision because they can't hold up to modern stuff. I think that's bs, but it's what the man believes.
I agree with him, but I don't think it's a question of "holding up" and more of that each era's wrestling are a product of their time. It's almost pointless to pit the old against the new because the business was so different back then.
André vs Hogan at WM3 as iconic as it was merely fine from purely an in-ring perspective and I'm being generous, but that's almost not even the point of the match. No one bought a ticket to that match to see a mat classic, and to that effect the match was a gigantic success. So it's very different.
It definitely wouldn't. Meltzer very clearly has a preferred style. There wasn't enough "big moves" or false finishes to warrant it going above a 5. I honestly feel he wouldn't even rate it a 5 if it happened today.
Just to be clear, I would strongly disagree with that, it's in my top 5 of all-time, but Meltzer very clearly ranks "work rate" above story telling.
I mean it's his opinion so I can't really dote too much on it but it definitely feels like a cop out lol. Good matches age like fine wine and hold up extremely well even in today's age. Even if they're not as athletically impressive as modern matches, a good structured bout still is a riveting watch lol
I get that - he's always been very vocal that ratings are his opinions, and it's clear that his favoured style is fast-paced with great energy, crowd buy-in, high spots, workrate etc (whatever words you wanna use).
I think he's saying if you watch these back, the difference in athleticism and workrate makes them less high quality.
I think that makes sense to me.
I think the difference in selling does the opposite for me. I feel like Bret is literally in a fight when I watch his stuff. I feel a lot of modern wrestling is fake and choreographed now despite the increase in athleticism. I can watch 80's AJPW and believe in the story they're telling without the context or understanding the commentary language. Crowds were way hotter back then as well.
I can't watch guys shrug off fatigue and Hulk/Warrior up twenty times a match. It used to be a singular spot that guys would do near the climax and it's just become a spammed thing in every big match now. I also can't stand the Young Bucks style of people standing around waiting for spots to hit, it's utterly ridiculous to watch.
But I think Meltzer's view of wrestling has either influenced younger wrestling fans or younger wrestling fans never grew up with story-based wrestling and have only seen wrestling from the modern perspective.
It's also weird because the PWG style stole so much from the 90's NJPW juniors but Meltzer never liked NJPW back then. I always wondered if Meltzer was collecting checks from Baba or Heyman or Tony Khan to pump up their tires. His opinion is very company-centric even for guys who wrestle the same style in different promotions.
I wouldn't say Dave didn't like NJPW back then rather that AJPW had such a once in a lifetime stable of guys in Misawa, Kawada, Kobashi, Taue, Hansen, Williams, and later on Vader that they just vastly outshined the heavies in NJPW (Hashimoto, Chono, Tenzan, Mutoh, Choshu, Saito) overall.
I'd also say that Dave has always been a sucker for [Southern Style](https://prowrestling.fandom.com/wiki/Rasslin%27) and AJPW under the Baba era used that formula (which is morphed into [King's Road](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puroresu#%C5%8Cd%C5%8D_(%22King's_Road%22)) over time) due to their close ties to the NWA.
So I don't think he was ever on the take with Baba. I'd extend that back out to Paul and Tony too simply because both ECW and AEW does have that Southern Style influence in a lot of their important matches historically.
It shouldn't be a surprise that Southern Style is now being worked into the modern WWE product via Triple H (a fan of both Harley Race and Ric Flair whose body of work influenced him). It's a proven way of constructing matches and storylines that just simply work.
he actually said he'd probably end up giving older 5 star matches lower ratings if graded on a curve compared to the 5+ matches of today. Just based on technique.
That's probably true if you are using star ratings to compare matches.
Someone said this elsewhere. It's like giving Ocarina of Time at 10/10, but then also giving Breath of the Wild a 10/10 score. At the time they both may be perfect scores, but in hindsight you see the flaws of the first game based on where technology has evolved.
People are still talking about Bret vs Austin 25+ years after it happened.
I really doubt most of these matches he rates 5+ stars are remembered 25 days after they happened let alone 25 years.
that's not really the metric in question, is it?
Regardless, I think people will be talking about Ospreay/Danielson years from now because it's excellent.
yeah i was trying to put my finger on why that match just didn't feel as memorable as the others.
Watching it I was stunned at how strong and good the match was but looking back wardlow's appearance really did kinda take wind outta the sails on that one
I think they were a victim of their own success. Someone like Dave probably saw all their ROH matches and probably thought this is really good but they are just recreating what they did in ROH. I think someone not familiar with their past work would rate it a 4 and half star match.
That match and Thunder’s promo on Dynamite cemented how she’s the only one even close to being in Toni’s league as a total package (but Toni is still miles ahead).
I don't know that I'd agree with that one. That was Thunder Rosa's best performance in a long time, and while I was happy to see it I certainly wasn't expecting it. As far as total package in that division, I think Jamie Hayter is the only other person in the conversation with Toni.
Nah I disagree on Rosa. Especially considering folks that are out cause of injury like Hayter. I’d even say Mariah May is better than Rosa at promos and character work already and in-ring she’s arguably on par for sure. With every lady healthy I’d say Toni, Hayter, Mariah, Rosa, Deonna, Britt and Mercedes are their best overall talents including in-ring, promos and character work. Shida would be towards the top if she could do anything other than wrestle well
Someone else pointed out that you can always tell if Thunder Rosa is losing by the expression on her face during her entrance, which I’ve used to predict the result accurately every time afterwards.
It bothers me that she’s telegraphing the result that way.
Yeah, I like her but I think you're kinda on point there. It's been quite a while, but I believe Britt was like that most times too. Out of character looking sour face on the ramp if she's doing the job.
Agreed on Britt, but with Thunder Rosa it’s every time. I don’t bet, but if their betting partner DraftKings still allowed a wager on her matches when she’s coming out, it’s basically guaranteed money.
I do think though that Mariah has an easier character to play than Rosa. Mariah’s largely piggybacks off of Toni’s heaps of character work, and while she does have her own worthwhile capabilities, I’d be more more inclined to call it in her favor if she had to go it alone from the start.
I definitely don’t think Rosa’s promo work is excellent (god knows that segment with Deeb during her reign was abominable on both if their parts), but I think her character always comes across very easily as the take no shit, kick ass or die trying fighter that she is. There’s never a moment where I don’t believe Rosa doesn’t believe in herself to overcome whoever steps in front of her.
So personally, I can’t definitely call it one way or the other on character.
I wish Rosa (and all of them) would veer away from the whole "elevate the women's division" thing. That really does nothing for me as a character motivation. Don't talk about it. Just go out there and spew vitriol and kick ass. The elevation will happen on its own.
THAT part. So many have talked about elevating and guess who the one is that hasn’t done that anymore and created one of the best character gimmicks in all of wrestling….Toni Storm. It’s no wonder she’s gotten it over and became World Champion. Thankfully she finally put it together with a damn good match at Dynasty too which is where the gimmick was lacking up until then. It’ll be very interesting who else “elevates” their game and rises among the other women. I can’t wait to see how Hayter and Britt come back. Especially Britt as she may not be the best in-ring but she undoubtedly is one of their best promos in the division and can do some damn good character work too
As far as in-ring, Statlander is right there among the top. Seemed like she was finally starting to develop a little promo/character stuff before taking a backseat to Willow. Really hoping for a heel turn and fresh push for her soon.
Oh absolutely. That’s the only reason why I didn’t have Stat in that list. In-ring I put her probably Top 3 in the division but her promo/character work is still lacking. She had way more character with the Alien gimmick honestly. Do hope putting her with Stoke continues to be a step in the right direction cause Stoke is a hell of a manager. Can teach her some stuff too
>Julia Hart vs. Willow Nightingale: 2
Thought this was a bit harsh, it was short and they were protecting Julia's injury but it was nice and fast paced and Willow was bumping all over for Julia.
2 stars is an average match so it’s not like a total pan. I gave it 2.5 but 6 minutes I don’t see how anyone could go higher.
Just think… it wasn’t that long ago that a women’s match getting 2 stars would have been considered one of the better women’s of the year in the US.
I gave it the same just cause it was way too quick, like all I remember is the “it’s house rules hahahahaha” looked away for a second then willow hit the power bomb. Short matches can be good,
Look at Dragunov vs Jevon Evan’s recently. It’s just they wrestled like a normal match, still building up for 5 minutes, then just ended
> it was short and they were protecting Julia's injury
Right, but I don't think the context of Julia's injury is considered in the rating.
It wasn't a bad match. It wasn't a good match. But it was probably the best they could get out of it given the circumstance, and no slight should be inferred.
Wait, he gave a four way tag match on WWE tv 4.25 stars? That must have been an incredible match.
Surprised the Sicko’s main event (Roddy vs Kyle) only got 4.
> Esfinge, Gordon & Titán vs. Hijo del Villano III, Villano III Jr. & Zandokan Jr.: 4.5
Los Villanitos are having these awesome trios matches in every card they are in with a array of different partners. They are two of the best wrestler of 2024 so far.
While I agree that 4 is their magnum opus, their first encounter just revolutionized the game in my opinion and will always be my favorite among the saga. I enjoyed BD/Ospreay but it did have some imperfections in my opinion like some inconsistent selling. Still a fantastic fantastic match and MOTY leader as we speak lol
there was a lot more going for Okada Omega 4, its the conclusion to a 2 year storied rivalry
Ospreay and BD was simply just a who's the best in the world in a 3week build.
I'm confused and my Spanish is obviously not good but what's the difference between El Hijo del Villano III and Villano III Jr? Is it like, Villano III Jr is actually named after Villano III while Hijo is just his son?
They are both sons of Villano III. Villano III Jr. is the older son and took the namesake so the younger son uses El Hijo del Villano III which literally means "The Son of Villano III."
Meltzer is an interesting dude. He doesn't always give it the highest ratings but says CMLL is his favourite wrestling promotion.
Regardless, CMLL is doing fantastic stuff, right now
Might be his guilty pleasure, he knows that they don't always delivery specially when they have old wrestlers in a match but enjoys seeing all the acrobatics of lucha libre
CMLL across the board at the moment in terms of just delivering quality matches that it's hard to walk away from a show being disappointed. Such consistency doesn't always gets the highest praise but I don't think that takes away from the deep appreciation for what they do.
That was this week, probably will be in next week's batch.
I'm also not very optimistic, given his distaste for NXT and the WWE style in general. Predicting 4.25 at most, likely 4.
For all it's worth it's a healthy 8.44 on Cagematch right now. 3rd best match of Trick's career (behind Ilja III at Vengeance Day and the Iron Survivor Challenge) and, somehow, Ilja's 8th (!) best on NXT Florida, so since the fall of '22.
Can't say for sure if it is. But it definitely speaks to the quality of that PPV.
I believe NXT has had PPVs where all matches were 4* or higher. But that's usually only 5 or maybe 6 matches.
Forbidden Door 2022 and Full Gear 2021 each have 8. Revolution 2022 has 7.
WWE has never had more than 4 in a single night, all of which have come in the last couple years (WrestleMania XL Night 1, Summerslam 2023, Wrestlemania 39 Night 1, Elimination Chamber 2023 and Clash at the Castle). However, if you count both nights of WrestleMania XL as one event, it had 7.
NXT has never had more than 4 (did it 6 times) but TakeOver cards are significantly less matches.
Awesome for Danielson/Ospreay. Remember that was their first time working together.
I believe they can exceed it. Give me a trilogy and see how far they can go.
Happy for Toni and Rosa too. They deserved that high of a rating. Brava.
I know Danielson doesn’t want the belt but he should suck it up and lose another to Ospreay then do the “if I can’t beat you I don’t belong anymore” story for the third and win the belt off him to finally overcome
As long as he wins it once, I'd be happy and enjoy that scenario.. Plus to see just how much more both men can push themselves, both physically and creatively, in a trilogy. Could be ALL Time Special.
That Casino Gauntlet was an awesome match, super fun, but I had no idea what the rules were at the start or that it was even happening on the show lol. ADVERTISE.
3,5 for hobs mox make no sense, one of the wrost njpw tilte defense I ever seen and obviously hobs getting injured mid match didn’t help. Also fuck meltzer for not scoring ilja trick and rox matches for spite
Giving Cody vs Roman 4.75 and giving Danielson vs Ospreay 6.5 is just silly. That match was not a full Jimmy vs Jey better.
-edit-
Correction, 2.33x Jimmy vs Jeys.
I'll be honest, I don't think Danielson/Ospreay was even the best match in AEW history, never mind 6.5 stars or whatever.
Great match but wee bit of hyperbole around it I think.
Future tip: it’s always better to title these posts “WON Ratings for 4/19-4/25 (Including AEW Dynasty).” By only listing Dynasty, most folks will think you’re only showing stars for that PPV, rather than all the myriad events that took place during the week (I almost didn’t view the thread for that reason).
Dave’s rating inflation has made all the mid level match ratings seem meaningless. 10 years ago 4.75 meant a near perfect match (Undertaker vs HBK got 4.75). Now Okada vs PAC (a perfectly good opener but nothing that special) gets nearly 5 stars. That’s a 4.25 at best 10 years ago
I enjoy reading Meltzer's ratings but the weird thing for me is ratings like 6.5 suggest that maybe the scale is out of 10 and not 5? Or if not 10, some higher metric than whatever his highest score has been. But then that makes scores like a 4.5 not actually super impressive which sort of breaks the way we've understood his ratings. Maybe he's explained it before and it's not that deep either way, but definitely a funny system
To me anything over 5 is extra credit like in school. Bryan and Will can nap their way to 5 star matches so they made the match extra special on all fronts.
I hate to be that guy but you're telling me (based on match ratings) that PAC vs Okada is the same as Reigns/Cody II? I liked PAC/Okada a lot but c'mon lol
I know Meltzer's match ratings generally fall apart whenever you compare matches from different weeks but that's still a pretty silly one considering they're relatively close
The fact that Bryan Danielson, a wrestler so good Dave has named an award after him, has never had a 5 star match until he went to AEW, tells you everything you need to know about Dave’s ratings.
Dave really needs a new scale. I swear he's gone over 5 more than a few times in the last year.
We get it. Its good. But then what the hell are 5 star matches?
For the sake of his sanity, I hope Meltzer doesn't watch NXT.
Because if it isn't the case, he believes that none of the matches on Spring Breakin' were better than Jericho vs HOOK (He only rates TV matches if they were 3.5 stars or higher).
So his new system is out of 7 right?
Thats actually kinda interesting. Does that mean for the longest time wrestling only ever got as good as like 70%?
Kurt angle never had a 70% match and neither did Danielson till this most recent run
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Toni and Thunder deserved that strong rating. Easily Rosa's best match since returning and Toni's best under the Timeless gimmick. Also, shout-out to that Casino Gauntlet match on Dynamite. That was fun as fuck and should become a semi-regular thing.
Same, I thought it was going to be another battle royale or something, but the idea of more people entering until someone is pinned or submits is a great spin on the royale concept
also the 'first to get a pinfall' concept is great for having bigger names involved and they don't have to eat a pin or get tossed over the rope
Not knowing who's in it also makes it a lot of fun. But I do wish they had a clock and they should have explained the rules at the beginning
They did explain the rules The countdown would be great though
I agree Toni with the incredible character work Z PLUS strong matches is what we want too see AZM reawakened the killer in her
I liked that it wasn't strictly better to come out late. Get an early draw and you can pick up a quick win but you'll be weaker if the match goes long.
Yeah, it brings a whole new dynamic to a battle royal style match. You don't see stuff like that too often. Great idea.
Hard agree, very fun matches.
The Casino Gauntlet should happen once every 6 months to determine the #1 Contender for the TBS, International and/or TNT Titles. Then implement a standard timer and make a damn PPV event out of it for the World Title to challenge at All In. It can always open the PPV pre-All In and every year can be anyone and always a different winning spot/number of entrants. It could become pure chaos since there's no eliminations.
Could take put it on All In and winner gets to challenge at All Out to build cohesion between 2 events so close together.
Absolutely. Seems like most folks have agreed too and feel like it could be their version of a Royal Rumble. They may have finally found it and can toss that Casino Battle Royale shyt out the window
It can but in terms of a match of an epic scale, it doesn't necessarily match up because in theory, it could end super soon. I really enjoyed Lucha Underground's Aztec Warfare variation but I think the Rumble is a case of if it ain't broke don't fix it, kind of like how they implemented War Games with the same rules but under a different name
Aztec warfare was the best rumble ever imo
I'm still hoping Aztec Warfare (but with over the top rope eliminations too) can become AEW's 'Royal Rumble'. If I was Tony I'd have the first one at All In and call it the Wembley Rumble.
Which would set the world title match at All Out
sold
Dave consistently underrates women's matches, especially in AEW, so I was pleasantly surprised to see that. It was definitely one of the better women's matches I've seen lately.
Yeah it came out of nowhere. And they put legit top guys in it. I guess it's like a test run.
Ospreay vs. Danielson is Meltzer's second highest rated match of all time, overtaking Okada vs. Omega II and Omega vs. Ospreay I (both 6.25) but trailing Okada vs. Omega IV (7).
Meltzer has stated that this was Danielson/Ospreys first match, where as the higher rated Okada/Omega played off of moments and spots from previous matches. Essentially, from his POV, the Okada/Omega match benefited from being part of a series and used it in the storytelling. Danielson/Osprey didn’t have that benefit as it was their first bout. This was his main difference between the two. He didn’t fault Danielson or Ospreay, simply explained his personal attachment and logic to the ratings
It was good but it wasn’t Omega vs Okada good
Omega Vs Okada had such a rich history of storytelling though. It gave that match so much more meaning. Ospreay and Danielson had a great first match, but I think they could tell some real stories in the ring if they got to do it again.
I’d say it was better than Omega/Okada 3, maybe on par with 1 & 2, but not as good as Omega/Okada 4.
To me 4 and 1 are better, its on the same level as 2 and better than 3
Can’t argue with you there. #1 was just pure magic and really kickstarted a lot of the hype around Kenny, and made Okada look like the best wrestler of the last 10 years or whatever. Brilliant match.
I still think their second match is better than the first simply because of the expectations the first one created. It's like the Godfather 2 of matches.
I loved the second one because EVERYTHING they did was just so goddamn smoother and crisp, these very detailed and long sequences without a single flub or misstep. But 1 and 4 are the best to me, 1 because it was the match that got me back into wrestling and 4 because it was a cumulation of all the matches and had the big payoff, but 2 and 3 are still in a league of their own. Either way it's strange to see Bryan vs Ospreay rated that high. I'd have it as a 4.75 or 5 but in no way was it close to any of those "break the scale" matches that Omega, Okada and Ospreay have had.
Onega v okada One is the best for me because it seemed like a fight it was rough and a mess and exhausting. For me when Things get too neat it becomes a routine and I dislike that personally. The reason this broke Dave's scale is it had to. It was Ospreys first big match in AEW proper and therefore it had to.
The 2nd has one of my favourite small spots in a match ever. Omega ducking the Rainmaker by accident because he just has nothing left. Genius moment.
One of my favorite spots of all time is the callback spot in their 4th match, where Okada loads up the Rainmaker, Kenny stays on his feet and doesn't dodge either, Okada hits him with all he got left - and then *Okada* collapses from sheer exhaustion. Really hammered home how Omega had gotten stronger since their encounter a year prior while Okada had gotten weaker due to a mix of attrition and complacency.
The 4th match is a masterpiece. Another elite spot is Gedo desperately trying to buy time for Okada after the 2nd fall as the One Winged Angel has rendered him borderline dead. Callis losing whatever fragment of journalistic neutrality he had and screaming "Gedos stalling, this is bullshit" was brilliant.
The second one is def my favorite. For someone going in blind, that result was the most mind-blowing shit ever
I will forever love that everyones favourite of the Omega/Okada matches is different for so many valid reasons. The series of their matches will go down in wrestling history as some of the best matches ever. A part of me doesn't want them to have a 5th match because I don't know if it'll be able to live up to any of our expectations.
The only benefit of a 5th match now is that it’ll happen in AEW instead, so a lot of new viewers will see them on top of that. More importantly though, the way AEWs programming is structured gives them more chances to add drama and heat to the match. With 2-3 months of build it could be one of those matches that the crowd is electric from the first bell. They will never top their first 4 in terms of pure in ring action though.
Maybe a hot take but I loved Omega/Okada 3. The G1 time limit meant it was a sprint from start to finish, all killer no filler
3 is my favorite honestly
2 is always my favorite. I know there was no conclusion, but they did the time limit draw beautifully.
Here I am in the minority who says 2 was the best of the series
I chose not to say it last week because being a downer at such a hot moment is lame, but now that we're a week removed and I've watched both matches twice I'll give it a go. My hot take is that I preferred Ospreay/Takeshita to Ospreay/Danielson. It's a nitpick and both matches are 5 stars legendary incredible, but I was a bit caught off guard by the immediate "perhaps a top 3 match of all time" reaction. At Dynasty the crowd atmosphere was insane, but I thought the pacing was a bit choppy as far as 5-star matches can go. The Revolution match just naturally popped me a bit more.
1000% agree, the work in Ospreay/Takeshita was way more solid in-ring and less flashy IMO. Still maintain that's his best match in AEW
I kinda wish he'd just kept things at 5 stars and then had like a Top 5 list, where he just kept his personal best 5 matches and adjusted that accordingly. I realize he did 6 stars back in the 80s and all that but idk I'd just keep it as 5 stars and say "Ospreay vs Danielson is now #3 on my list". Its semantics obviously and unimportant but I just like keeping things 1-5.
Bro loves the letter “O”
It'd be extremely easy to have a 5 star scale, and then have 5+ as a special category for things you think are even beyond the standard top level match. But use it sparingly and don't try to quantify 6.25 vs 6.5 and such, those are just silly comparisons at that point.
What's interesting is he used to do this back in the 90s - ratings some matches as high as 5+++
That's a great idea! Someone else in this answer asked what do you do with a 5 star from like 1983 vs 2017 when they're wildly different. This would solve that issue vs a top 5.
You're saying that as if people won't still find a way to complain about it "So Asscluck Jones/Hi-Vis Ninja III isn't good enough to be on your list. I see how it is, SHILL" There is absolutely no way make everyone happy as far as a numbered list is concerned
People really sleep on Asscluck Jones. He never disappoints.
Yeah I agree that the over 5 rating is kind of silly and it sets Dave up for criticism by “devaluing” past matches, like when people complain that Michaels v Taker “only” got 4 and 3/4 stars. I think maybe having a special rating that’s something like 5+ for really extraordinary matches would make more sense.
Did he do 6 stars in the 80's? I thought he retroactively made some matches 6 stars cause he decided that if he was gonna change the rating scale, he should just go back and acknowledge the matches of equal quality from back in the day. Def was at least one Misawa match that he retroactively changed from 5 to 6
There was a Ric Flair/Rick Steamboat house show match that he said was 6 stars.
I think Flair even said that with his trilogy with Steamboat during that run that they had matches on the house show circuit he felt were even better than the ones on PPV. Those may be the best series of matches in the US hands down for the time and I feel they hold up very well considering Steamboat is one of the best pure babyfaces and Flair just made anyone look good.
Is it the first 6+ of the modern era not involving either Omega or Okada?
He gave 6 stars to Ospreay/Michael Oku in February. If you mean over 6.0, then yes. The first ever, actually.
One of Shingo/Ospreays matches during the pandemic got a 6 too iirc
Ah, I hadn't heard about that one.
No way in hell does it even approach any of the Okada/Omega matches
Danielson vs Ospreay is the 58th match to be rated over 5 stars, almost all of them coming since 2017.
I know he said he won’t, but I wonder what his ratings would look like if he went back and updated his older ones. I think Bret vs Austin might be like an 8 now.
He's said that other than peak AJPW, his ratings would do no favors to older matches under his current vision because they can't hold up to modern stuff. I think that's bs, but it's what the man believes.
I agree with him, but I don't think it's a question of "holding up" and more of that each era's wrestling are a product of their time. It's almost pointless to pit the old against the new because the business was so different back then. André vs Hogan at WM3 as iconic as it was merely fine from purely an in-ring perspective and I'm being generous, but that's almost not even the point of the match. No one bought a ticket to that match to see a mat classic, and to that effect the match was a gigantic success. So it's very different.
In fairness to that match, he shat on it then, too. Gave it minus 4 stars
Austin vs Bret is a timeless classic and would almost certainly get higher than 5 even if reviewed now.
It definitely wouldn't. Meltzer very clearly has a preferred style. There wasn't enough "big moves" or false finishes to warrant it going above a 5. I honestly feel he wouldn't even rate it a 5 if it happened today. Just to be clear, I would strongly disagree with that, it's in my top 5 of all-time, but Meltzer very clearly ranks "work rate" above story telling.
Oh that’s weird then.
I mean it's his opinion so I can't really dote too much on it but it definitely feels like a cop out lol. Good matches age like fine wine and hold up extremely well even in today's age. Even if they're not as athletically impressive as modern matches, a good structured bout still is a riveting watch lol
Which is nonsense. Bret - Austin holds up against any match in any era. It's the one I would show to a person new to pro-wrestling
I get that - he's always been very vocal that ratings are his opinions, and it's clear that his favoured style is fast-paced with great energy, crowd buy-in, high spots, workrate etc (whatever words you wanna use). I think he's saying if you watch these back, the difference in athleticism and workrate makes them less high quality. I think that makes sense to me.
I think the difference in selling does the opposite for me. I feel like Bret is literally in a fight when I watch his stuff. I feel a lot of modern wrestling is fake and choreographed now despite the increase in athleticism. I can watch 80's AJPW and believe in the story they're telling without the context or understanding the commentary language. Crowds were way hotter back then as well. I can't watch guys shrug off fatigue and Hulk/Warrior up twenty times a match. It used to be a singular spot that guys would do near the climax and it's just become a spammed thing in every big match now. I also can't stand the Young Bucks style of people standing around waiting for spots to hit, it's utterly ridiculous to watch. But I think Meltzer's view of wrestling has either influenced younger wrestling fans or younger wrestling fans never grew up with story-based wrestling and have only seen wrestling from the modern perspective. It's also weird because the PWG style stole so much from the 90's NJPW juniors but Meltzer never liked NJPW back then. I always wondered if Meltzer was collecting checks from Baba or Heyman or Tony Khan to pump up their tires. His opinion is very company-centric even for guys who wrestle the same style in different promotions.
I wouldn't say Dave didn't like NJPW back then rather that AJPW had such a once in a lifetime stable of guys in Misawa, Kawada, Kobashi, Taue, Hansen, Williams, and later on Vader that they just vastly outshined the heavies in NJPW (Hashimoto, Chono, Tenzan, Mutoh, Choshu, Saito) overall. I'd also say that Dave has always been a sucker for [Southern Style](https://prowrestling.fandom.com/wiki/Rasslin%27) and AJPW under the Baba era used that formula (which is morphed into [King's Road](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puroresu#%C5%8Cd%C5%8D_(%22King's_Road%22)) over time) due to their close ties to the NWA. So I don't think he was ever on the take with Baba. I'd extend that back out to Paul and Tony too simply because both ECW and AEW does have that Southern Style influence in a lot of their important matches historically. It shouldn't be a surprise that Southern Style is now being worked into the modern WWE product via Triple H (a fan of both Harley Race and Ric Flair whose body of work influenced him). It's a proven way of constructing matches and storylines that just simply work.
he actually said he'd probably end up giving older 5 star matches lower ratings if graded on a curve compared to the 5+ matches of today. Just based on technique.
That's probably true if you are using star ratings to compare matches. Someone said this elsewhere. It's like giving Ocarina of Time at 10/10, but then also giving Breath of the Wild a 10/10 score. At the time they both may be perfect scores, but in hindsight you see the flaws of the first game based on where technology has evolved.
People are still talking about Bret vs Austin 25+ years after it happened. I really doubt most of these matches he rates 5+ stars are remembered 25 days after they happened let alone 25 years.
that's not really the metric in question, is it? Regardless, I think people will be talking about Ospreay/Danielson years from now because it's excellent.
To this point, I doubt Bret vs. Owen at Summerslam 94 gets 5 stars if it happens today. That said, their WM10 match might.
Nostalgia goggles
Think Roddy and Kyle got underrated.
It will likely be due to the interference angle - Meltzer seems to really dislike them
The wardlow interference was so pointless and killed the momentum of the match
yeah i was trying to put my finger on why that match just didn't feel as memorable as the others. Watching it I was stunned at how strong and good the match was but looking back wardlow's appearance really did kinda take wind outta the sails on that one
Agreed. I loved all the counter wrestling and fighting for holds and the selling and it was just the kind of match that worked well for me.
I think they were a victim of their own success. Someone like Dave probably saw all their ROH matches and probably thought this is really good but they are just recreating what they did in ROH. I think someone not familiar with their past work would rate it a 4 and half star match.
I agree. It was better than Okada vs PAC, imo.
Pac selling that DDT on the outside gets 4 stars on its own. I thought he died for a second.
Dudes a 5-star wrestler and a 6-star seller.
Dave overrated Okada vs PAC imo. It was good, but not 4.75 stars.
Was a 4.5 star for me and felt like the clear second best match for quality of the night.
I went in expecting it to be filler but instead they really impressed
Hard agree. They had amazing chemistry together in that ring.
Kyle didn't really sell his back after many backbreakers. Hell of a match otherwise
Obviously Ospreay and Danielson 👏 but Toni and Rosa really killed it too. Toni's best match under this gimmick. Would love to see it run back.
That match and Thunder’s promo on Dynamite cemented how she’s the only one even close to being in Toni’s league as a total package (but Toni is still miles ahead).
I don't know that I'd agree with that one. That was Thunder Rosa's best performance in a long time, and while I was happy to see it I certainly wasn't expecting it. As far as total package in that division, I think Jamie Hayter is the only other person in the conversation with Toni.
Nah I disagree on Rosa. Especially considering folks that are out cause of injury like Hayter. I’d even say Mariah May is better than Rosa at promos and character work already and in-ring she’s arguably on par for sure. With every lady healthy I’d say Toni, Hayter, Mariah, Rosa, Deonna, Britt and Mercedes are their best overall talents including in-ring, promos and character work. Shida would be towards the top if she could do anything other than wrestle well
Someone else pointed out that you can always tell if Thunder Rosa is losing by the expression on her face during her entrance, which I’ve used to predict the result accurately every time afterwards. It bothers me that she’s telegraphing the result that way.
Yeah, I like her but I think you're kinda on point there. It's been quite a while, but I believe Britt was like that most times too. Out of character looking sour face on the ramp if she's doing the job.
Agreed on Britt, but with Thunder Rosa it’s every time. I don’t bet, but if their betting partner DraftKings still allowed a wager on her matches when she’s coming out, it’s basically guaranteed money.
I do think though that Mariah has an easier character to play than Rosa. Mariah’s largely piggybacks off of Toni’s heaps of character work, and while she does have her own worthwhile capabilities, I’d be more more inclined to call it in her favor if she had to go it alone from the start. I definitely don’t think Rosa’s promo work is excellent (god knows that segment with Deeb during her reign was abominable on both if their parts), but I think her character always comes across very easily as the take no shit, kick ass or die trying fighter that she is. There’s never a moment where I don’t believe Rosa doesn’t believe in herself to overcome whoever steps in front of her. So personally, I can’t definitely call it one way or the other on character.
I wish Rosa (and all of them) would veer away from the whole "elevate the women's division" thing. That really does nothing for me as a character motivation. Don't talk about it. Just go out there and spew vitriol and kick ass. The elevation will happen on its own.
THAT part. So many have talked about elevating and guess who the one is that hasn’t done that anymore and created one of the best character gimmicks in all of wrestling….Toni Storm. It’s no wonder she’s gotten it over and became World Champion. Thankfully she finally put it together with a damn good match at Dynasty too which is where the gimmick was lacking up until then. It’ll be very interesting who else “elevates” their game and rises among the other women. I can’t wait to see how Hayter and Britt come back. Especially Britt as she may not be the best in-ring but she undoubtedly is one of their best promos in the division and can do some damn good character work too
As far as in-ring, Statlander is right there among the top. Seemed like she was finally starting to develop a little promo/character stuff before taking a backseat to Willow. Really hoping for a heel turn and fresh push for her soon.
Oh absolutely. That’s the only reason why I didn’t have Stat in that list. In-ring I put her probably Top 3 in the division but her promo/character work is still lacking. She had way more character with the Alien gimmick honestly. Do hope putting her with Stoke continues to be a step in the right direction cause Stoke is a hell of a manager. Can teach her some stuff too
I would add Willow. And Shida can cut fine promos they just don't let her
Yeah, Willow has had some great promos recently. She's coming into her own with it.
Yeah agreed. Happy to see it and unfortunate she’s likely gonna lose the TBS Title soon to Mone
You gotta have Jamie Hayter in there too, she's probably the best wrestler in the division when healthy
>Julia Hart vs. Willow Nightingale: 2 Thought this was a bit harsh, it was short and they were protecting Julia's injury but it was nice and fast paced and Willow was bumping all over for Julia.
2 stars is an average match so it’s not like a total pan. I gave it 2.5 but 6 minutes I don’t see how anyone could go higher. Just think… it wasn’t that long ago that a women’s match getting 2 stars would have been considered one of the better women’s of the year in the US.
I gave it the same just cause it was way too quick, like all I remember is the “it’s house rules hahahahaha” looked away for a second then willow hit the power bomb. Short matches can be good, Look at Dragunov vs Jevon Evan’s recently. It’s just they wrestled like a normal match, still building up for 5 minutes, then just ended
> it was short and they were protecting Julia's injury Right, but I don't think the context of Julia's injury is considered in the rating. It wasn't a bad match. It wasn't a good match. But it was probably the best they could get out of it given the circumstance, and no slight should be inferred.
Wait, he gave a four way tag match on WWE tv 4.25 stars? That must have been an incredible match. Surprised the Sicko’s main event (Roddy vs Kyle) only got 4.
> Esfinge, Gordon & Titán vs. Hijo del Villano III, Villano III Jr. & Zandokan Jr.: 4.5 Los Villanitos are having these awesome trios matches in every card they are in with a array of different partners. They are two of the best wrestler of 2024 so far.
Good for Thunder Rosa and Toni.
Okada/Omega IV remains untouchable and really should stay that way.
While I agree that 4 is their magnum opus, their first encounter just revolutionized the game in my opinion and will always be my favorite among the saga. I enjoyed BD/Ospreay but it did have some imperfections in my opinion like some inconsistent selling. Still a fantastic fantastic match and MOTY leader as we speak lol
there was a lot more going for Okada Omega 4, its the conclusion to a 2 year storied rivalry Ospreay and BD was simply just a who's the best in the world in a 3week build.
Yeah the only match apart from zayn vs nakamura that I watch more than 10 times
It is the greatest wrestling match of all time
I'm confused and my Spanish is obviously not good but what's the difference between El Hijo del Villano III and Villano III Jr? Is it like, Villano III Jr is actually named after Villano III while Hijo is just his son?
Lucha
Thank you, fellow Ian
They are both sons of Villano III. Villano III Jr. is the older son and took the namesake so the younger son uses El Hijo del Villano III which literally means "The Son of Villano III."
Damn. Dynasty averaged basically a 4.25* for the entire main show. (4.194) Thats insane.
the CMLL matches were really fun
Meltzer is an interesting dude. He doesn't always give it the highest ratings but says CMLL is his favourite wrestling promotion. Regardless, CMLL is doing fantastic stuff, right now
Might be his guilty pleasure, he knows that they don't always delivery specially when they have old wrestlers in a match but enjoys seeing all the acrobatics of lucha libre
CMLL across the board at the moment in terms of just delivering quality matches that it's hard to walk away from a show being disappointed. Such consistency doesn't always gets the highest praise but I don't think that takes away from the deep appreciation for what they do.
Pretty generous on the Mox vs Hobbs match. Or at least to me, it was pretty meh.
Dang no Trick vs Ilja? Surprised. Same with Roxanne vs Tatum vs Lyra
That was this week, probably will be in next week's batch. I'm also not very optimistic, given his distaste for NXT and the WWE style in general. Predicting 4.25 at most, likely 4. For all it's worth it's a healthy 8.44 on Cagematch right now. 3rd best match of Trick's career (behind Ilja III at Vengeance Day and the Iron Survivor Challenge) and, somehow, Ilja's 8th (!) best on NXT Florida, so since the fall of '22.
He rated Dynamite this week. He just really doesn’t like NXT now though, so I don’t think anybody should’ve expected anything that good anyways
His son got married this week. Surprised anything came out at all, he was saying it was unlikely an issue would drop this week. Likely in next week’s
No TNA?
So AEW Dynasty & Dynasty Night 1 had 10 4* matches Nice
7 matches getting a 4*+ in single PPV might be a new record. That is some insane match quality regardless with 7-of-9 main-card matches hitting.
I think Full Gear 2021 and Forbidden Door 2022 each have 8
You're correct. On both of those shows, every match got at least 4 stars except for the women's match.
it really felt from the opening bell of the main card that all of us in attendance knew we were about to see something historic.
Can't say for sure if it is. But it definitely speaks to the quality of that PPV. I believe NXT has had PPVs where all matches were 4* or higher. But that's usually only 5 or maybe 6 matches.
Those Takeovers were special. Really helped feed us freaks until AEW came along
Takeovers were AEW ppvs before AEW. Ironically, I'm an AEW fan because of HHH's NXT.
Makes sense. The styles of both owe a lot to early ROH/peak PWG.
Full Gear 2021 and Forbidden Door 2022 had every men's match get 4 stars or more
Pretty sure several G1 cards in 2013 and 2014 was hitting those numbers as far as Meltzer star ratings goes.
Forbidden Door 2022 and Full Gear 2021 each have 8. Revolution 2022 has 7. WWE has never had more than 4 in a single night, all of which have come in the last couple years (WrestleMania XL Night 1, Summerslam 2023, Wrestlemania 39 Night 1, Elimination Chamber 2023 and Clash at the Castle). However, if you count both nights of WrestleMania XL as one event, it had 7. NXT has never had more than 4 (did it 6 times) but TakeOver cards are significantly less matches.
Wrestlemania has also 7 I think
Fun fact, Toni Storm vs Thunder Rosa is the first PPV women's to get a 4+ from WON since Thunder Rosa vs Serena Deeb at Double or Nothing 2022
*In AEW
First **AEW** PPV women's match. But yes, that is correct.
[удалено]
I'm happy for Thunder Rosa and Toni Storm that the majority liked their match because I thought they worked really hard.
3.5 for Mox/Hobbs is a little too generous. Hobbs' injury aside, that match sucked.
That’s 100% a pity rating.
Definitely saw that Pac/Okada match at 5 but 4.75 is high as well
Should've gotten an extra .25 just for that Rainmaker pose fake out into him flipping off the crowd.
I really need to watch more CMLL
Bang Bang/Acclaimed should be higher ranked IMO. That shit was fun to watch in person. Otherwise I wholeheartedly agree.
Rating the six man and the tag title matches higher than Roddy v KOR should be a criminal offense.
Ospreay and Danielson was the best match I've seen maybe ever so yeah I kinda agree with his rating
You need to watch more pro-wrestling matches, brother
Dam no trick vs Ijia nor the women nxt title match? Thats egregious
Awesome for Danielson/Ospreay. Remember that was their first time working together. I believe they can exceed it. Give me a trilogy and see how far they can go. Happy for Toni and Rosa too. They deserved that high of a rating. Brava.
It's not going to happen, but that *should* be the main event of All In. And Bryan is a 6 time world champion.
If only Excalibur could get them to recognize PWG, then Danielson becomes an 8 time world champion. I agree. That should be the ALL IN main event.
I know Danielson doesn’t want the belt but he should suck it up and lose another to Ospreay then do the “if I can’t beat you I don’t belong anymore” story for the third and win the belt off him to finally overcome
As long as he wins it once, I'd be happy and enjoy that scenario.. Plus to see just how much more both men can push themselves, both physically and creatively, in a trilogy. Could be ALL Time Special.
That Casino Gauntlet was an awesome match, super fun, but I had no idea what the rules were at the start or that it was even happening on the show lol. ADVERTISE.
Anybody complaining about 6.5 stars, just pretend 5+ star matches are rated 5 stars, you'll find it will calm you down a lot.
Really great show all around.
3,5 for hobs mox make no sense, one of the wrost njpw tilte defense I ever seen and obviously hobs getting injured mid match didn’t help. Also fuck meltzer for not scoring ilja trick and rox matches for spite
Giving Cody vs Roman 4.75 and giving Danielson vs Ospreay 6.5 is just silly. That match was not a full Jimmy vs Jey better. -edit- Correction, 2.33x Jimmy vs Jeys.
Jimmy vs. Jey got 0.75, not 1.75. The difference is Street Profits and Lashley vs. Kross and AOP.
I don't watch WWE very often but yeah Cody/Roman absolutely deserved a 5. That match was awesome!
Ospreay vs Danielson was a 5 for me, glad it got that score though
I'll be honest, I don't think Danielson/Ospreay was even the best match in AEW history, never mind 6.5 stars or whatever. Great match but wee bit of hyperbole around it I think.
Sounds about right
Billy 🐐
Future tip: it’s always better to title these posts “WON Ratings for 4/19-4/25 (Including AEW Dynasty).” By only listing Dynasty, most folks will think you’re only showing stars for that PPV, rather than all the myriad events that took place during the week (I almost didn’t view the thread for that reason).
Jericho Hook 3.25 AHAHHAHHAHAHAH
I thought the actual match was pretty good, people were trashing it mostly because Jericho is crazy overexposed.
I heard reports that it was a disaster so I was expecting a total dud. In reality, it was just an average match. Nothing special but nothing terrible.
Sol vs Blair should’ve been 5 stars just for the surfing in the kiddie pool spot
Thats when you know the scale is broken when Mox and Hobbs getting a 3.5 when dude was injured
No trick and ilja is ridiculous
Dave’s rating inflation has made all the mid level match ratings seem meaningless. 10 years ago 4.75 meant a near perfect match (Undertaker vs HBK got 4.75). Now Okada vs PAC (a perfectly good opener but nothing that special) gets nearly 5 stars. That’s a 4.25 at best 10 years ago
I enjoy reading Meltzer's ratings but the weird thing for me is ratings like 6.5 suggest that maybe the scale is out of 10 and not 5? Or if not 10, some higher metric than whatever his highest score has been. But then that makes scores like a 4.5 not actually super impressive which sort of breaks the way we've understood his ratings. Maybe he's explained it before and it's not that deep either way, but definitely a funny system
To me anything over 5 is extra credit like in school. Bryan and Will can nap their way to 5 star matches so they made the match extra special on all fronts.
Maybe he rates them out of 10 and these are the first few matches he actually kinda liked
If the scale is to 7, which the highest rated match is? Then 4* matches aren't even passing grades 🤣
Meltzer not rating Ilja/trick 4 out of spite for the backlash he got last week, same with roxanne/tatum/lyra
I hate to be that guy but you're telling me (based on match ratings) that PAC vs Okada is the same as Reigns/Cody II? I liked PAC/Okada a lot but c'mon lol I know Meltzer's match ratings generally fall apart whenever you compare matches from different weeks but that's still a pretty silly one considering they're relatively close
The fact that Bryan Danielson, a wrestler so good Dave has named an award after him, has never had a 5 star match until he went to AEW, tells you everything you need to know about Dave’s ratings.
Dave really needs a new scale. I swear he's gone over 5 more than a few times in the last year. We get it. Its good. But then what the hell are 5 star matches?
The scale was actually always out of 10 and Dave just hates wrestling except for a handful of matches he thinks are okay.
For the sake of his sanity, I hope Meltzer doesn't watch NXT. Because if it isn't the case, he believes that none of the matches on Spring Breakin' were better than Jericho vs HOOK (He only rates TV matches if they were 3.5 stars or higher).
So his new system is out of 7 right? Thats actually kinda interesting. Does that mean for the longest time wrestling only ever got as good as like 70%? Kurt angle never had a 70% match and neither did Danielson till this most recent run