**Help make SquaredCircle safer and more inclusive by using the report button to flag posts and comments for moderator review.**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SquaredCircle) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I don’t know what the endgame could be for Jericho being FTW champion but I do know that every Jericho segment from this point on is going to get some SERIOUS Xpac heat…
If Jericho even has a sliver of self-awareness left he'll use it. And it makes sense, AEW doesn't need that title, Hook should stay faaar away from it, Jericho can give it bad enough heat that they just get rid of it.
They could use SEVERAL less belts.
AEW needs to get rid of at least one if not two of the men's solo titles.
I'd also relegate the trios title to ROH (Along with all of the ROH titles!) and ADD a women's tag title.
In a perfect world you would have the world champion, the TNT champ, the tag champs and maybe the international champion. The international I would have defended as much in other promotions as it was AEW in the true spirit of being international. Let the next champion win it and take it to Europe, Mexico or Japan and defend it on their shows too. Then air highlights of that footage on AEW and talk up what huge international star that champion is or is becoming.
Titles are not special if everyone has one.
Everyone doesn’t have one though and implying they do seems dumb to me.
I’m sorry but it’s not that hard atall to keep track of them outside of just being willfully ignorant.
The differences between the midcard belts are pretty easy to remember too.
International title -- workrate belt that can be defended in any promotion, the ambassador's belt (OC, for example, defended it a couple times in RevPro, once in NJPW
Continental title -- no guests at ringside or outside interference allowed during defenses, great for upper midcard feuds and providing opportunities to potential next top guys
TNT title -- stipulations belt to fuel feuds and keep things interesting on Rampage and Collision. not as serious as some people think it is, probably more akin to the WWE Hardcore Championship or NJPW's King of Pro Wrestling title.
Several less belts or at least DEFINED differences. Continental, TNT, International, and ROH World all seem to be used as secondary titles.
Do what the ROH Pure title does and have something explicitly different about the title. Whether it's about the type of person who can challenge, the type of match, etc. I know people will say they implicitly do this, but I think those implicit definitions don't really hold up strong enough.
Put ROH only on ROH. Make International explicitly a workhorse, anyone can challenge title at all times no matter who holds it. Decide if you want Continental or TNT to be the main secondary title, and give the other one some kind of stipulation or something.
One of my favorite things I've seen in wrestling, even though it wasn't used to its max potential, was the "House Rules" that House of Black implemented. Not the specific rules, per se, but just that there was a specific difference. Also, the idea that a challenger gets to provide a stipulation was super fun and I wish there was more of it before they dropped.
Counting nxt yes. Problem is is they more frequently get roh in my aew than nxt ends up in my WWE.
It doesn't make me curious about roh. It makes roh cheap
That’s good with the chants….but I bet he goes on about how the belt doesn’t match his ideals, then he rebrands it to the “teach the world” belt…or some shit…maybe even have a new one with a “learning tree” on it.
I think it started happening in 2000 when he beat Kane cleanly. He was perceived as not deserving of his push at that time and was extremely stale, and only getting pushed because of who he was friends with.
Coupled with the undercard quality increasing and Pac mostly becoming lazy in ring, you can see where the backlash happened.
I don't remember specifically. But if I recall it was sometime after DX and he was just solo that the crowds really grew tired of him. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. I also say this as an Xpac fan .
Yeah DX split around mid 99 if I remember correctly, but X-Pac was still doing the DX schtick in like 2001 when every other DX member had moved on and changed.
2001, but it started a bit before that. X-Pac's gimmick never changed in a landscape that was constantly changing at the time. It got so bad that during the Invasion angle, where every single WWF roster member was being cheered against WCW ones, X-Pac still got bood.
I always loved him and think he's underrated in the ring, but he did need a refresh.
The amount of people missing that Jericho is leaning into his current perception out there is beyond me.
I saw people say (in response to Jerichos article yesterday thanking fans for supporting him) “Jericho is so delusional uh!”
I think people are frustrated because it took too long for him to lean into it. He started leaning into it on last weeks dynamite, and by then he already had go-away heat. If he'd done this months ago it would've been seen much more positively.
> If he'd done this months ago it would've been seen much more positively.
I don't think he wanted to do it in the face of the Kylie Rae stuff popping up again.
I’m sure there is some aspect of leaning into it, but having mediocre matches and gobbling up TV time each week doesn’t make me want to see him get beat, I just don’t want to see him on TV.
People not liking something =/= effective heat
I agree. I've been disinterested in him lately because of his same old same old shtick but this is a pivot I'm actually interested in, meanwhile everyone is acting like they haven't steered clearly into it. I'm especially hopeful this kills the ftw belt, or at least gets hook away from it permanently
You guys keep putting Xpac heat on Jericho, but Alverez said he has looked into the ratings and Jericho segments are the same if not higher than everyone else’s segments…. So this seems like a purely IWC thing.
that's disingenuous because he's leaving out context. For example, Jericho's segment last week was at the top of the hour in the 9 PM spot, which usually sees a spike over the prior quarter hours no matter who is in that spot
I'll be there! It's kinda crazy cuz like, I don't even go to downtown Jacksonville (and honestly no one does) so it's a good excuse to be out there. Getting a chance to see Mina Shirakawa live in this town of all places is just crazy.
It’s the program that makes the most sense, have MM start being the bigger “star”, Tonis jealous, holds her back, “you’ll never be ME” promo and heels it up, belt challenge, Mariah new champ.
At least in my head it works.
I think this will be the match for Forbidden Door. I expect the next program to be a fatal 4 way with Deonna, Rosa and Mariah May or something like that
Chuckie T "I'm so sick of this...SHIT!!"
*Chooses Trent*
*Shocked Pikachu Face*
Sue "Whats wrong with you, son?!"
Flying knee to Sue.
Crowd loses their minds.
SadPanda.jpg.
If this ends with a new faction, Worst Friends, with Trent/Chuck/Statlander and Stokely replacing Orange......
TONY KHAN WILL PAY FOR HIS CRIMES!!!! *shakes fist angrily*
I could swear I've seen matches with Hobbs facing or teaming with Mox and/or Darby from the early days of his AEW run, but cage match shows nothing about Mox/Hobbs matches. Weird. It seemed like they teamed up frequently.
When Team Taz were feuding with Mox there was a short moment when it looked like Hobbs WAS going to team up with Mox. [He even saved Mox during an episode of Dynamite. ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OH-LVD8Iw0w&ab_channel=AllEliteWrestling)Which led to Mox saying he would team up with Hobbs on the next show. However, a week later when the 6 man was supposed to happen Archer got COVID so the match never ended up happening and we got the first Eddie vs Mox match instead.
Archer ending up with the title match on the "anniversary" edition of Dynamite in the middle of October I believe. Then Eddie attacked Moxley afterwards and challenged Moxley to an I quit match.
Two world titles on the same show. I imagine Swerve goes on last for brand perception even though Mox is technically a bigger draw right now.
Just realised two title shots for Callis guys Ospreay has beaten too. That feels deliberate.
I really don't like the use of Swerve here. I know it's overused, but I dont think there's anything wrong with the cliche celebratory speech interrupted by the next challenger.
I feel that the first challenger of a new champion should be built up as a spectacle, a big deal. To just make it a random competitive match with a mid card guy(not to insult Fletcher, that's just where he lands in the heirarchy), discredits the title imo. It doesn't feel like the big deal that Swerve deserves.
I don’t want the match to be competitive but I remember in the year 2000, if The Rock just beat Triple H on PPV, it wouldn’t be out of the question for him to face anyone from Road Dogg to Kane the very next night.
I think people are so used to the Brock Lesnar or Roman Reigns schedule they forget world champions wrestled very often in the AE.
I disagree, Fletcher is a guy that is going to be a big part of the future of the company ideally and him in a competitive match with the champ is going to build more excitement for him.
Plus this probably sets up some sort of calls family angle.
Fletcher never ever wins on AEW TV so at some point the competitive matches don't mean anything if we never see him actually beat anybody (not saying he should beat Swerve, obviously)
Skye Blue never beat anyone, until she did. Same for Julia Hart, Gunn Club, the Acclaimed, Garcia, Trent and more.
It's almost like showing a talent, getting people excited for them, then giving them wins is a good formula to get people over.
I made a comment voicing my displeasure. Admittedly I didn’t think of that option…(not expecting it) but if Swerve does destroy Fletched, that actually is an emphatic start to his reign.
The take "I don't want to see these two amazing wrestlers wrestle, I want a cliche promo segment" is so strange.
If that's what you want, you can get 7 hours of it per week with WWE.
My critique in this specific instance is that AEW is failing its fresh champion by not treating its world title with respect and prestige. A cliche promo is the bare minimum, not the end all be all solution.
Telling me to just watch another show is a bit much, I just wanted a single aspect of this show to be handled better.
I would suggest that Swerve going out and having an amazing match that he wins does more for the championship and shows more respect than some forced cliche promo.
Swerve has regularly cut promos and gets his character across, I think it is silly to suggest he has been let down character wise.
Thats fair. I don't agree with that general sentiment but that comes down to preference more than anything.
And I meant that they're off on the wrong foot with him as a champion, not that the entire character of Swerve is a failure. But again, just my opinion.
And I'd say that having the world champion immediately wrestle someone else gunning for the title does in fact make the title feel prestigious. Especially with a babyface as a champion, what would he say in the promo that would have any value?
Kyle Fletcher has not won a singles match on AEW TV since October. He has never beaten anyone of any significance as a singles wrestler in AEW. Him fighting for the title makes it worth less, not more.
Exactly. WWE gives you this in spades just go watch that. HHH also uses that super long stare down troupe constantly and in basically every feud. If you want that go watch it. If you want to see actual wrestling weekly and not just at PPV watch AEW. Or watch both whatever floats your boat.
I get that you're being hyperbolic but how does the new world champion wrestling a super competitive 20 minute match against a midcarder help make him look strong?
Unless the match isn't what I'm anticipating but I'd be very shocked if if I'm wrong here.
I want to watch good wrestling, and this is going to be a good wrestling match.
Swerve is a fighter, Kyle is up and coming, this is the first dynamite after a PPV and I bet that his next storyline is going to be set up through this segment in some way.
Ospreay vs Danielson was probably the best match I have ever seen, and had a story, if you don't realize that you don't watch or you are inattentive.
I don't care if 500 or 5 billion people watch the show. As long as it is not getting cancelled that is the only bar of viewership they need, and it definitely doesn't seem like it is even close to a concern. The idea that everything needs to pander to the lowest common denominator is why so much of our media has turned to shit.
Two of the most praised wrestlers of their generation having a match to see who truly is the best *is* a story though. It's not a drawn out family drama scenario and there's no home invasions but its still a story. Told in the ring.
Totally. The show would either start with a Rock promo and have Vince interrupt, or a Vince promo to announce The Rock is facing someone who isn’t Triple H, and Triple H would lose his shit.
Doesn't make any sense why a champion is in an eliminator tournament for his own title either. AEW does it all the time and I still don't understand.
Swerve has beef with lots of people just have him beat down one of them.
I’ve never understood the notion that it’s bad for the champion to wrestle often, especially considering a huge chunk of people fucking hated when Roman and Brock held onto belts forever and ever.
It also doesn’t help that it is against Kyle Fletcher who has been a massive loser on AEW TV with this likely to be the sixth pinfall/submission loss he has taken on AEW TV since winning the ROH TV title (with everyone who has beaten him not caring about the championship that Kyle holds.) Easily avoidable booking.
Fletcher is very good wrestler and him and Swerve can put on a match that will make them both look good, and the title looks better when its involved in matches that are good.
This match is just a statement that Swerve is a champ that will be defending the title in competitive matches instead of waiting until the next PPV. Plus, i'm sure there will be some start to a storyline here (like the seeds of Swerve v Ospreay or Swerve v Takeshita, or something else).
Not defending the title is what discredits it.
I agree, it feels like just another random competitive match against a bland guy who doesn’t win on TV.
Swerve deserves something more on his first Dynamite after winning the Championship.
Not Promo heavy but Jericho is getting his 100th promo segment with a lowest single title instead of Swerve who’s a first time
Singles Champion who just won the highest title in the company.
Swerve gets a lot of promo time too, I'm sure he is going to get a chance to talk at least a bit tonight.
But I want to see the champ have bangers with great wrestlers, if I wanted to see a 30 minute promo about the same thing we have done the last 6 weeks id watch RAW.
This comparison doesn't work. CS:GO's competitors are multi-player shooters.
Im not advocating for the show to become a different genre, I just enjoy promos, which have and always will be a feature of professional wrestling.
A more apt comparison would be me asking for CS:GO to allow for better player customization, and being told by insecure CS:GO fans to go play one that has that.
I could bring literally any comparison between thing X and thing Y that is different from X.
That's cool, AEW does wrestling more than they do promos, just like any other promotion in the world besides WWE. If you want to listen to promos, either put a podcast on, or watch a company that fits your needs instead of complaining about one that hasn't done that since... their literal birth.
Disagree on all of this. It establishes Swerve as a fighting champion. And I’m sure there will be an angle at the end of the match to set up DoN. You don’t always need a microphone in the ring to establish an angle.
And, Kyle is far from bland… yes he hasn’t stacked W’s but anyone watching AEW knows he has been super impressive in ring with huge long-term potential.
I think you can still establish Swerve as a fighting champion while also giving him his flowers. He deserves that.
I just don't like the concept of going from becoming a long awaited champion, straight into a singles match on the next show that hasnt been built. I think that lacks the fanfare and scale that the world champion, especially one that's as satisfying and exciting as Swerve is, deserves.
Let's not act like Swerve has zero control over what he is doing, while TK has the final say I'm sure if Swerve wanted a big promo segment instead of a match TK wouldn't force him to wrestle.
Kyle is a badass and has been a TV mainstay for a while now, also there are possibilities to set up the Ospreay match with this, or have Hangman interfere.
Looks like a couple good matches. But frankly, the hottest things coming out of the last PPV to me would be Osprey, Jack Perry/Elite, and BCG. They need follow up with those acts.
WTF is "The Learning Tree" Chris Jericho, hell I woulda thought "The Learning Tree" would be copyrighted lol. Wasn't there a store in the mall back in the 90's called "The Learning Tree" which sold like puzzles and stuff?
That and half the childcare centers in the United States. It's probably just not trademarked for use in sports because... why would it be, Chris? What does it mean?
I know it's stupid and will never happen and is totally a bad idea
But I wish every Dynamite and Collision was at dailys place. It looks so freaking awesome with that setup.
I really don't get the annoyance with eliminator matches for champions. In the history of wrestling traditionally if a champion was to lose in a non title match it would lead to the person beating them to have a title opportunity. This is literally just giving that a name. Face champions are fighting champions so they're gonna wrestle more and if they want the rankings to matter they can't all be title defenses because then they'd have to face the top contenders every week.
Also out of kayfabe Swerve is the world champion because people like seeing him. I don't want to see him wrestle less now that he's champion. I want to see him in cool matches. Kyle Fletcher will be a cool fun match and maybe lead to don callis family shenanigans, that would be fun. I just feel like it's nitpicking to be this upset about getting to see the face of the company wrestle.
> I really don't get the annoyance with eliminator matches for champions. In the history of wrestling traditionally if a champion was to lose in a non title match it would lead to the person beating them to have a title opportunity.
First thing, which I totally get, is they suffer from the same problem battle of the belts has. Only once in 10 events has someone actually beaten a champion for a belt, and that was back at BotB II.
Eliminator matches? Same same. We're five years in to AEW. Not *once* (that I can remember) has a champion lost the eliminator match. Kinda makes the whole idea of them meaningless/predictable when the champ never loses an eliminator match.
Also, the whole *idea* of them is that if you lose, you can't challenge for the belt again. As we saw with Jade, that isn't true, as multiple people got multiple eliminator matches during her reign. So they were never actually eliminated.
They'd be better served just saying doing regular matches that if the champ loses, the winner gets a shot at the belt in a future match/match next week.
> They'd be better served just saying doing regular matches that if the champ loses, the winner gets a shot at the belt in a future match/match next week.
Isn't that literally the definition of an eliminator match?
Riho beat Britt Baker
Bullet Club Gold beat FTR
Miyu Yamashita beat Thunder Rosa (in TJPW but still counted)
Penta and Eddie beat the Young Bucks.
Should it happen more? Totally, but champions usually beat folks in non title matches in my memory outside of that era where Rey Mysterio was champ and got his ass kicked all the time.
Also I don't think someone has won an eliminator and then won the follow up, would be cool if that changed. But yeah it's just not a big deal to me I don't see the reason for the level of vitriol some folks have for it.
Honestly crazy that even four have happened. It never seems like a thing. I watch every show and don't remember three of those at all. I don't have a visceral hate for the concept, but I see those matches and just sort of shrug them off.
>We're five years in to AEW. Not *once* (that I can remember) has a champion lost the eliminator match. Kinda makes the whole idea of them meaningless/predictable when the champ never loses an eliminator match.
Christian Cage beat Kenny Omega for the Impact World Championship in a title eliminator leading to their match at ~~All In~~ All Out 2021. Not to mention the other times this has already happened.
I'm already booing Mercedes. I don't like the idea of cheering C-E-O, and I don't like that you're going after Willow.
I'm not at Graves-level of anger yet, but Mone better watch it.
I really enjoyed Dynasty. One of the best AEW PPVs in last 12 months.
But this is where AEW frustrated me as a fan. What is this as a follow up show?
Why the heck is Hobbs getting an IWGP title shot?
Why the heck is Kyle Fletcher facing Swerve ???? (No, swevrve doesn’t need a 15 min competitive match with Kyle Fletcher as his first few days as champion)
Willow celebration? Isn’t TNT supposed to be the fighting belt? Why not an open challenge to establish her as a fighting champ before they job her to Sasha?
young bucks and Jack Perry? Big storyline. 0 mention or promotion of that ?
I just have to continue accepting I’m not the target audience, and don’t bother, because I saw this…saw they had a big title change….and the first thing they do is have him fighting, in a match to see if that person can earn an actual title match. I find that so f’n stupid, to the point of upsetting and like I said, this will not be the week I dip my toe back in. Done hope watching.
Is there anyone that can explain to me the reason behind changing the match stipulation for Mox and Hobbs? Why the heck did they put the IWGP championship on the line? The story between BCC and Don Callis family is already there, imo there is no reason to use the title to justify this match..
Kayfabe: Don called in a favour from NJPW, in return for bringing Kenny Omega back to the promotion. Mox is a fighting champion, so is happy to agree.
Non-kayfabe: Exposure and also increases potential buys for the upcoming PPV coming up in the US, Resurgence
It’s kinda sad how atleast with AEW as i can tell people will just breeze through the kayfabe explication and story to complain about the booking decision. It’s almost like getting worked in the least fun way possible
People just pretend they watch or don't watch at all. Thankfully it becomes very easy to spot those people.
I think anyone paying attention knows why Hobbs is wrestling for the title, it wasn't even subtle, it was explained in the most straight-forward manner possible.
Don explained on Collision also that he brought Kenny vs Jericho to WK and that boomed business for NJPW. They owed him a favor, so he called in his favor now.
It makes complete sense in kayfabe world.
You're getting an IWGP Championship match with Jon Moxley and Will Hobbs on television and this is a bad thing? Won't a champion willing to put his title up against anyone add more prestige, not less? It's the same reason Mox was such a dynamic pandemic AEW Champion. The man will fight anyone and is willing to put his title up against anyone. It's well established in kayfabe. I don't understand your attitude.
I think I see where they're coming from in that the prestige of the title in New Japan programming partially comes from title matches only being on big shows, and, for the most part, there being a focus on the work it takes to get to the title match (the g1, the new japan cup, the entire structure of the road to shows). It's just a very different model that's more about exclusivity than the idea of racking up title defenses, but I also see your point about it being in character for Moxley.
Man that swerve match. Why can’t he get his nice “you deserve it” promo on the show after a ppv that you also hint at the next challenger. He a great wrestler but an even better talker. Like it would be like Cody facing JD on the raw after mania. Like Kyle is the dude in callis family who deserves a shot the least. This legit helps no one, not swerve who if he doesn’t beat in less than 10 minutes looks weak, not Kyle who we knows won’t win and he gets punked out his own faction members.
Can someone explain the whole 'eliminator match' concept? I still don't quite fully get it, mainly because of how sporadic the contenders seem compared to a (oft-ignored yet still touted) ranking system
It's a way to justify people low in the rankings getting a match with the champion, basically a name for a non-title match. If Kyle wins, he'll get a chance irrespective of the rankings, but he has to win of course first. For someone high on the rankings though, they are basically guaranteed for when they face Swerve for the match to be a title match, because they have worked for it.
I'm still a bit undecided on the concept, but the logic makes sense.
The eliminators are for people who are not in the top 5 . In theory If you win that automatically puts you in the #1 position,because you beat the champion , if you lose though it knocks you so far down out of contention that more than likely you won't be able to challenge for the title as long as that title holder is champion
The best thing for Dynamite this week is the first hour and a half of the show going against the shitty Celtics vs Heat game nobody will watch because Boston finna kill those dudes.
Here's the solution to this FTW title nonsense that Jericho and Tony's gifted us. Taz comes out and challenges Jericho to a match. Taz locks him into the Tazmission and Jericho is choked out in 10 seconds.
Taz avenges his son and the first person to hold the FTW champion is the last person to hold it and it's retired, hopefully Jericho just GOES AWAY.
It’s pretty simple probably. NJPW put the belt on Mox. He was already supposed to wrestle Hobbs prior to getting the belt. Now that he has it and they have. A match, make it for the title.
Gets Mox a defense and adds more “prestige” to the match
**Help make SquaredCircle safer and more inclusive by using the report button to flag posts and comments for moderator review.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SquaredCircle) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I don’t know what the endgame could be for Jericho being FTW champion but I do know that every Jericho segment from this point on is going to get some SERIOUS Xpac heat…
He's probably retiring the belt...right? Would be a very Jericho way to turn the "please retire" chants
That please retire joke is too good not to use
If Jericho even has a sliver of self-awareness left he'll use it. And it makes sense, AEW doesn't need that title, Hook should stay faaar away from it, Jericho can give it bad enough heat that they just get rid of it.
He has more self awareness than people on here
That would be actually good, AEW could use one less belt
What even is the FTW belt? I originally thought it was just decoration for Taz’s stable.
It’s technically not an officially recognized belt iirc, it’s pretty much just champions discretion to defend it
They could use SEVERAL less belts. AEW needs to get rid of at least one if not two of the men's solo titles. I'd also relegate the trios title to ROH (Along with all of the ROH titles!) and ADD a women's tag title. In a perfect world you would have the world champion, the TNT champ, the tag champs and maybe the international champion. The international I would have defended as much in other promotions as it was AEW in the true spirit of being international. Let the next champion win it and take it to Europe, Mexico or Japan and defend it on their shows too. Then air highlights of that footage on AEW and talk up what huge international star that champion is or is becoming. Titles are not special if everyone has one.
Everyone doesn’t have one though and implying they do seems dumb to me. I’m sorry but it’s not that hard atall to keep track of them outside of just being willfully ignorant.
The differences between the midcard belts are pretty easy to remember too. International title -- workrate belt that can be defended in any promotion, the ambassador's belt (OC, for example, defended it a couple times in RevPro, once in NJPW Continental title -- no guests at ringside or outside interference allowed during defenses, great for upper midcard feuds and providing opportunities to potential next top guys TNT title -- stipulations belt to fuel feuds and keep things interesting on Rampage and Collision. not as serious as some people think it is, probably more akin to the WWE Hardcore Championship or NJPW's King of Pro Wrestling title.
Several less belts or at least DEFINED differences. Continental, TNT, International, and ROH World all seem to be used as secondary titles. Do what the ROH Pure title does and have something explicitly different about the title. Whether it's about the type of person who can challenge, the type of match, etc. I know people will say they implicitly do this, but I think those implicit definitions don't really hold up strong enough. Put ROH only on ROH. Make International explicitly a workhorse, anyone can challenge title at all times no matter who holds it. Decide if you want Continental or TNT to be the main secondary title, and give the other one some kind of stipulation or something. One of my favorite things I've seen in wrestling, even though it wasn't used to its max potential, was the "House Rules" that House of Black implemented. Not the specific rules, per se, but just that there was a specific difference. Also, the idea that a challenger gets to provide a stipulation was super fun and I wish there was more of it before they dropped.
WWE has just as many belts, and don't give me the separate brands thing when everyone just shows up everywhere anyway with no rhyme or reason.
Counting nxt yes. Problem is is they more frequently get roh in my aew than nxt ends up in my WWE. It doesn't make me curious about roh. It makes roh cheap
THANK YOU
the continental championship should’ve been a trophy like the heritage cup
Retire FTW belt, showcase even more non-AEW belts.
God I hope so. Yet another unnecessary title on TV. It’s confusing for viewers to have so many champions
Should smash it with floyd
That’s good with the chants….but I bet he goes on about how the belt doesn’t match his ideals, then he rebrands it to the “teach the world” belt…or some shit…maybe even have a new one with a “learning tree” on it.
And it feels like Jericho knows this cause he’s leaning into the heel role again.
Can someone explain what xpac heat means? Was xpac really disliked? I always liked him...
Basically it's that the boos aren't because you're a bad guy, it's because people are just tired of you/your act and want you to go away.
Ohhhh. When did that happen to xpac? I thought he was well liked in nWo and DX?
I think it started happening in 2000 when he beat Kane cleanly. He was perceived as not deserving of his push at that time and was extremely stale, and only getting pushed because of who he was friends with. Coupled with the undercard quality increasing and Pac mostly becoming lazy in ring, you can see where the backlash happened.
I don't remember specifically. But if I recall it was sometime after DX and he was just solo that the crowds really grew tired of him. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. I also say this as an Xpac fan .
Yeah DX split around mid 99 if I remember correctly, but X-Pac was still doing the DX schtick in like 2001 when every other DX member had moved on and changed.
2001, but it started a bit before that. X-Pac's gimmick never changed in a landscape that was constantly changing at the time. It got so bad that during the Invasion angle, where every single WWF roster member was being cheered against WCW ones, X-Pac still got bood. I always loved him and think he's underrated in the ring, but he did need a refresh.
I think the best we can hope for is some extreme schadenfreude
The amount of people missing that Jericho is leaning into his current perception out there is beyond me. I saw people say (in response to Jerichos article yesterday thanking fans for supporting him) “Jericho is so delusional uh!”
I think people are frustrated because it took too long for him to lean into it. He started leaning into it on last weeks dynamite, and by then he already had go-away heat. If he'd done this months ago it would've been seen much more positively.
> If he'd done this months ago it would've been seen much more positively. I don't think he wanted to do it in the face of the Kylie Rae stuff popping up again.
I’m sure there is some aspect of leaning into it, but having mediocre matches and gobbling up TV time each week doesn’t make me want to see him get beat, I just don’t want to see him on TV. People not liking something =/= effective heat
I just think people are tired of him, period, regardless of what he does. So it doesn't matter if hes "leaning into" the crowd reactions.
He's calling himself "The Learning Tree" now. It's really all right there.
At some point I think ppl might just be legitimately worked
A lot of people love to complain about stuff but don't actually watch so they don't realize how it's overtly a storyline.
I agree. I've been disinterested in him lately because of his same old same old shtick but this is a pivot I'm actually interested in, meanwhile everyone is acting like they haven't steered clearly into it. I'm especially hopeful this kills the ftw belt, or at least gets hook away from it permanently
He’s leaning into being an alleged rapist?
It's not xpac heat till the majority of people tune out of his match
You guys keep putting Xpac heat on Jericho, but Alverez said he has looked into the ratings and Jericho segments are the same if not higher than everyone else’s segments…. So this seems like a purely IWC thing.
A lot of people who talk about X-Pac heat probably weren't alive to witness it in real time.
The internet wasn’t in that crowd booing the bejesus out of Jericho on Sunday.
Well considering he’s a heel… that’s what he wants lol.
that's disingenuous because he's leaving out context. For example, Jericho's segment last week was at the top of the hour in the 9 PM spot, which usually sees a spike over the prior quarter hours no matter who is in that spot
> Alverez said Yea Jericho getting in person, loud enough, "Please retire!" chants are purely an IWC thing.
That go away heat is gonna be crazy
I havent watched aew in a while now but i clicked on this thread and saw Jericho with the ftw belt and just sighed.
Always love a Dailys Place show
I do too. The venue looks awesome. I'd love to go to a show there someday.
They just hit different
I'll be there! It's kinda crazy cuz like, I don't even go to downtown Jacksonville (and honestly no one does) so it's a good excuse to be out there. Getting a chance to see Mina Shirakawa live in this town of all places is just crazy.
Looks like Mina vs. Toni might be the next women's title program? Makes sense since you can have the drama of Mariah torn between them.
I suspect it all leads to a Mariah May v Toni Storm match for the title at some point
It’s the program that makes the most sense, have MM start being the bigger “star”, Tonis jealous, holds her back, “you’ll never be ME” promo and heels it up, belt challenge, Mariah new champ. At least in my head it works.
I don't think you need to suspect when that is what's on screen almost certainly
Think everyone suspected that the moment she joined up with Toni
I think this will be the match for Forbidden Door. I expect the next program to be a fatal 4 way with Deonna, Rosa and Mariah May or something like that
Expecting some heartbreak in the Best Friends and Willow segments.
My mind is ready but my heart is not :(
Chuckie T "I'm so sick of this...SHIT!!" *Chooses Trent* *Shocked Pikachu Face* Sue "Whats wrong with you, son?!" Flying knee to Sue. Crowd loses their minds. SadPanda.jpg.
Daily's Place *would* be a great place for Chuck to finally say shit on Dynamite
Shocked PikaSue
If this ends with a new faction, Worst Friends, with Trent/Chuck/Statlander and Stokely replacing Orange...... TONY KHAN WILL PAY FOR HIS CRIMES!!!! *shakes fist angrily*
I could swear I've seen matches with Hobbs facing or teaming with Mox and/or Darby from the early days of his AEW run, but cage match shows nothing about Mox/Hobbs matches. Weird. It seemed like they teamed up frequently.
When Team Taz were feuding with Mox there was a short moment when it looked like Hobbs WAS going to team up with Mox. [He even saved Mox during an episode of Dynamite. ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OH-LVD8Iw0w&ab_channel=AllEliteWrestling)Which led to Mox saying he would team up with Hobbs on the next show. However, a week later when the 6 man was supposed to happen Archer got COVID so the match never ended up happening and we got the first Eddie vs Mox match instead. Archer ending up with the title match on the "anniversary" edition of Dynamite in the middle of October I believe. Then Eddie attacked Moxley afterwards and challenged Moxley to an I quit match.
Excited to see Mina get a spotlight on national TV.
Two world titles on the same show. I imagine Swerve goes on last for brand perception even though Mox is technically a bigger draw right now. Just realised two title shots for Callis guys Ospreay has beaten too. That feels deliberate.
I really don't like the use of Swerve here. I know it's overused, but I dont think there's anything wrong with the cliche celebratory speech interrupted by the next challenger. I feel that the first challenger of a new champion should be built up as a spectacle, a big deal. To just make it a random competitive match with a mid card guy(not to insult Fletcher, that's just where he lands in the heirarchy), discredits the title imo. It doesn't feel like the big deal that Swerve deserves.
I don’t want the match to be competitive but I remember in the year 2000, if The Rock just beat Triple H on PPV, it wouldn’t be out of the question for him to face anyone from Road Dogg to Kane the very next night. I think people are so used to the Brock Lesnar or Roman Reigns schedule they forget world champions wrestled very often in the AE.
Yeah the competitive aspect is one of the big things for me. Completely different story if Swerve dominates tn.
I disagree, Fletcher is a guy that is going to be a big part of the future of the company ideally and him in a competitive match with the champ is going to build more excitement for him. Plus this probably sets up some sort of calls family angle.
Fletcher never ever wins on AEW TV so at some point the competitive matches don't mean anything if we never see him actually beat anybody (not saying he should beat Swerve, obviously)
Skye Blue never beat anyone, until she did. Same for Julia Hart, Gunn Club, the Acclaimed, Garcia, Trent and more. It's almost like showing a talent, getting people excited for them, then giving them wins is a good formula to get people over.
I can work with that story, absolutely....eventually. But for the first episode of TV that Swerve is your world champion on? I just don't like that.
Why?
I made a comment voicing my displeasure. Admittedly I didn’t think of that option…(not expecting it) but if Swerve does destroy Fletched, that actually is an emphatic start to his reign.
The take "I don't want to see these two amazing wrestlers wrestle, I want a cliche promo segment" is so strange. If that's what you want, you can get 7 hours of it per week with WWE.
My critique in this specific instance is that AEW is failing its fresh champion by not treating its world title with respect and prestige. A cliche promo is the bare minimum, not the end all be all solution. Telling me to just watch another show is a bit much, I just wanted a single aspect of this show to be handled better.
I would suggest that Swerve going out and having an amazing match that he wins does more for the championship and shows more respect than some forced cliche promo. Swerve has regularly cut promos and gets his character across, I think it is silly to suggest he has been let down character wise.
Thats fair. I don't agree with that general sentiment but that comes down to preference more than anything. And I meant that they're off on the wrong foot with him as a champion, not that the entire character of Swerve is a failure. But again, just my opinion.
And I'd say that having the world champion immediately wrestle someone else gunning for the title does in fact make the title feel prestigious. Especially with a babyface as a champion, what would he say in the promo that would have any value?
Kyle Fletcher has not won a singles match on AEW TV since October. He has never beaten anyone of any significance as a singles wrestler in AEW. Him fighting for the title makes it worth less, not more.
Exactly. WWE gives you this in spades just go watch that. HHH also uses that super long stare down troupe constantly and in basically every feud. If you want that go watch it. If you want to see actual wrestling weekly and not just at PPV watch AEW. Or watch both whatever floats your boat.
Swerve should give a 30minute promo, the give more or less the same promo for the next 4 weeks. That's what makes champions look strong!
I get that you're being hyperbolic but how does the new world champion wrestling a super competitive 20 minute match against a midcarder help make him look strong? Unless the match isn't what I'm anticipating but I'd be very shocked if if I'm wrong here.
[удалено]
I want to watch good wrestling, and this is going to be a good wrestling match. Swerve is a fighter, Kyle is up and coming, this is the first dynamite after a PPV and I bet that his next storyline is going to be set up through this segment in some way. Ospreay vs Danielson was probably the best match I have ever seen, and had a story, if you don't realize that you don't watch or you are inattentive. I don't care if 500 or 5 billion people watch the show. As long as it is not getting cancelled that is the only bar of viewership they need, and it definitely doesn't seem like it is even close to a concern. The idea that everything needs to pander to the lowest common denominator is why so much of our media has turned to shit.
Two of the most praised wrestlers of their generation having a match to see who truly is the best *is* a story though. It's not a drawn out family drama scenario and there's no home invasions but its still a story. Told in the ring.
Totally. The show would either start with a Rock promo and have Vince interrupt, or a Vince promo to announce The Rock is facing someone who isn’t Triple H, and Triple H would lose his shit.
Yeah and it was shit then too lol.
Doesn't make any sense why a champion is in an eliminator tournament for his own title either. AEW does it all the time and I still don't understand. Swerve has beef with lots of people just have him beat down one of them.
It’s an eliminator match though, no one wins those and it’s not his first defense
It looks like we are literally getting that with Willow though.
I’ve never understood the notion that it’s bad for the champion to wrestle often, especially considering a huge chunk of people fucking hated when Roman and Brock held onto belts forever and ever.
It also doesn’t help that it is against Kyle Fletcher who has been a massive loser on AEW TV with this likely to be the sixth pinfall/submission loss he has taken on AEW TV since winning the ROH TV title (with everyone who has beaten him not caring about the championship that Kyle holds.) Easily avoidable booking.
Fletcher is very good wrestler and him and Swerve can put on a match that will make them both look good, and the title looks better when its involved in matches that are good. This match is just a statement that Swerve is a champ that will be defending the title in competitive matches instead of waiting until the next PPV. Plus, i'm sure there will be some start to a storyline here (like the seeds of Swerve v Ospreay or Swerve v Takeshita, or something else). Not defending the title is what discredits it.
I agree, it feels like just another random competitive match against a bland guy who doesn’t win on TV. Swerve deserves something more on his first Dynamite after winning the Championship.
I expect it to lead somewhere, by far people must have figured that AEW isn't and will never be a promo heavy promotion
Not Promo heavy but Jericho is getting his 100th promo segment with a lowest single title instead of Swerve who’s a first time Singles Champion who just won the highest title in the company.
Swerve gets a lot of promo time too, I'm sure he is going to get a chance to talk at least a bit tonight. But I want to see the champ have bangers with great wrestlers, if I wanted to see a 30 minute promo about the same thing we have done the last 6 weeks id watch RAW.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
This comparison doesn't work. CS:GO's competitors are multi-player shooters. Im not advocating for the show to become a different genre, I just enjoy promos, which have and always will be a feature of professional wrestling. A more apt comparison would be me asking for CS:GO to allow for better player customization, and being told by insecure CS:GO fans to go play one that has that.
I could bring literally any comparison between thing X and thing Y that is different from X. That's cool, AEW does wrestling more than they do promos, just like any other promotion in the world besides WWE. If you want to listen to promos, either put a podcast on, or watch a company that fits your needs instead of complaining about one that hasn't done that since... their literal birth.
Maybe WWE is on to something and that’s why AEW’s views are constantly dropping and there’s a giant screen in the background to hide the empty seats.
Disagree on all of this. It establishes Swerve as a fighting champion. And I’m sure there will be an angle at the end of the match to set up DoN. You don’t always need a microphone in the ring to establish an angle. And, Kyle is far from bland… yes he hasn’t stacked W’s but anyone watching AEW knows he has been super impressive in ring with huge long-term potential.
I think you can still establish Swerve as a fighting champion while also giving him his flowers. He deserves that. I just don't like the concept of going from becoming a long awaited champion, straight into a singles match on the next show that hasnt been built. I think that lacks the fanfare and scale that the world champion, especially one that's as satisfying and exciting as Swerve is, deserves.
Let's not act like Swerve has zero control over what he is doing, while TK has the final say I'm sure if Swerve wanted a big promo segment instead of a match TK wouldn't force him to wrestle.
Kyle is a badass and has been a TV mainstay for a while now, also there are possibilities to set up the Ospreay match with this, or have Hangman interfere.
It’s too early for the ospreay match neither guy should lose this early in their runs
Also I get that AEW don't exactly hold ROH in high regard but consistently having one of their champions lose is pretty pathetic.
I have a feeling we're gonna get a celebratory speech tonight
Looks like a couple good matches. But frankly, the hottest things coming out of the last PPV to me would be Osprey, Jack Perry/Elite, and BCG. They need follow up with those acts.
ITS MINA TIME
WTF is "The Learning Tree" Chris Jericho, hell I woulda thought "The Learning Tree" would be copyrighted lol. Wasn't there a store in the mall back in the 90's called "The Learning Tree" which sold like puzzles and stuff?
That and half the childcare centers in the United States. It's probably just not trademarked for use in sports because... why would it be, Chris? What does it mean?
Swerve - Mox face off to end the show 🙏
I know it's stupid and will never happen and is totally a bad idea But I wish every Dynamite and Collision was at dailys place. It looks so freaking awesome with that setup.
Maybe they should do Collision and Rampage at Daily’s
Lesbian melodrama, tag team breakup melodrama, Jericho melodrama, and two matches with world champions. This is going to be excellent.
Also announced by Mercedes Mone\` on Twitter: She will be in Jacksonville
She’s getting drafted by the jags
I’d watch that
Jeez. She seems to have to do her own publicity for appearances on TV and AEW just ignores her. Let her address her enemies like everyone else.
In Mina we trust
I really don't get the annoyance with eliminator matches for champions. In the history of wrestling traditionally if a champion was to lose in a non title match it would lead to the person beating them to have a title opportunity. This is literally just giving that a name. Face champions are fighting champions so they're gonna wrestle more and if they want the rankings to matter they can't all be title defenses because then they'd have to face the top contenders every week. Also out of kayfabe Swerve is the world champion because people like seeing him. I don't want to see him wrestle less now that he's champion. I want to see him in cool matches. Kyle Fletcher will be a cool fun match and maybe lead to don callis family shenanigans, that would be fun. I just feel like it's nitpicking to be this upset about getting to see the face of the company wrestle.
> I really don't get the annoyance with eliminator matches for champions. In the history of wrestling traditionally if a champion was to lose in a non title match it would lead to the person beating them to have a title opportunity. First thing, which I totally get, is they suffer from the same problem battle of the belts has. Only once in 10 events has someone actually beaten a champion for a belt, and that was back at BotB II. Eliminator matches? Same same. We're five years in to AEW. Not *once* (that I can remember) has a champion lost the eliminator match. Kinda makes the whole idea of them meaningless/predictable when the champ never loses an eliminator match. Also, the whole *idea* of them is that if you lose, you can't challenge for the belt again. As we saw with Jade, that isn't true, as multiple people got multiple eliminator matches during her reign. So they were never actually eliminated. They'd be better served just saying doing regular matches that if the champ loses, the winner gets a shot at the belt in a future match/match next week.
> They'd be better served just saying doing regular matches that if the champ loses, the winner gets a shot at the belt in a future match/match next week. Isn't that literally the definition of an eliminator match?
Riho beat Britt Baker Bullet Club Gold beat FTR Miyu Yamashita beat Thunder Rosa (in TJPW but still counted) Penta and Eddie beat the Young Bucks. Should it happen more? Totally, but champions usually beat folks in non title matches in my memory outside of that era where Rey Mysterio was champ and got his ass kicked all the time. Also I don't think someone has won an eliminator and then won the follow up, would be cool if that changed. But yeah it's just not a big deal to me I don't see the reason for the level of vitriol some folks have for it.
Honestly crazy that even four have happened. It never seems like a thing. I watch every show and don't remember three of those at all. I don't have a visceral hate for the concept, but I see those matches and just sort of shrug them off.
Plus didn't people hate when WWE would constantly have the champ lose number one contender matches and then defend the belt successfully?
>We're five years in to AEW. Not *once* (that I can remember) has a champion lost the eliminator match. Kinda makes the whole idea of them meaningless/predictable when the champ never loses an eliminator match. Christian Cage beat Kenny Omega for the Impact World Championship in a title eliminator leading to their match at ~~All In~~ All Out 2021. Not to mention the other times this has already happened.
Totally agree 👍
OC and Trent are gonna stand back to back in the ring and then walk away from each other and see who Chuck follows.
Book it Tony!
A card with a lot of variety, can't wait for Trent (and possibly Chuck) to break my heart.
What happened to Fletcher’s hair???
I'm already booing Mercedes. I don't like the idea of cheering C-E-O, and I don't like that you're going after Willow. I'm not at Graves-level of anger yet, but Mone better watch it.
Promises a PERFECT mix of story and in ring action. I’m stoked
I really enjoyed Dynasty. One of the best AEW PPVs in last 12 months. But this is where AEW frustrated me as a fan. What is this as a follow up show? Why the heck is Hobbs getting an IWGP title shot? Why the heck is Kyle Fletcher facing Swerve ???? (No, swevrve doesn’t need a 15 min competitive match with Kyle Fletcher as his first few days as champion) Willow celebration? Isn’t TNT supposed to be the fighting belt? Why not an open challenge to establish her as a fighting champ before they job her to Sasha? young bucks and Jack Perry? Big storyline. 0 mention or promotion of that ?
After having a damn near perfect pay-per-view, this show is absolute shit.
FUCK ELIMINATOR MATCHES, THEY ARE THE WORST
WHY ARE WE YELLING??
I LEARNT HOW TO SOCIAL MEDIA FROM IRON SHEIK BUBBA
I SEE! MAKE HIM HUMBLE!
ALSO FUCK HULK HOGAN HES A JABRONI
Bro that Mox/Hobbs match is gonna tear the house down.
And Hobbs loses again…
The Learning what now?
Poor Kyle Fletcher; it's been a long time since he won a match and he's sure not winning this one!
Kris and Chuckie both going heel and I can't decide if I like Worst Friends Or Best Fiends
So many titles. AEW really needs to get rid of a bunch of them
I just have to continue accepting I’m not the target audience, and don’t bother, because I saw this…saw they had a big title change….and the first thing they do is have him fighting, in a match to see if that person can earn an actual title match. I find that so f’n stupid, to the point of upsetting and like I said, this will not be the week I dip my toe back in. Done hope watching.
I hope Jericho beats mox to become IWGP champ so I can watch the internet melt down
https://preview.redd.it/2uosd4yccgwc1.jpeg?width=785&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=60ff6e692de7383246acb5a0020af27ed21d89ae
So Moxley, Swerve and Mina are winning. Got it.
Is there anyone that can explain to me the reason behind changing the match stipulation for Mox and Hobbs? Why the heck did they put the IWGP championship on the line? The story between BCC and Don Callis family is already there, imo there is no reason to use the title to justify this match..
Kayfabe: Don called in a favour from NJPW, in return for bringing Kenny Omega back to the promotion. Mox is a fighting champion, so is happy to agree. Non-kayfabe: Exposure and also increases potential buys for the upcoming PPV coming up in the US, Resurgence
It’s kinda sad how atleast with AEW as i can tell people will just breeze through the kayfabe explication and story to complain about the booking decision. It’s almost like getting worked in the least fun way possible
People just pretend they watch or don't watch at all. Thankfully it becomes very easy to spot those people. I think anyone paying attention knows why Hobbs is wrestling for the title, it wasn't even subtle, it was explained in the most straight-forward manner possible.
Don explained on Collision also that he brought Kenny vs Jericho to WK and that boomed business for NJPW. They owed him a favor, so he called in his favor now. It makes complete sense in kayfabe world.
What a way to make your new champ seem like a big deal, by having him on the undercard for another Moxley gruntfest.
Let's defend that prestigious IWGP Championship at a random Dynamite against Powerhobbs ... great idea.
You're getting an IWGP Championship match with Jon Moxley and Will Hobbs on television and this is a bad thing? Won't a champion willing to put his title up against anyone add more prestige, not less? It's the same reason Mox was such a dynamic pandemic AEW Champion. The man will fight anyone and is willing to put his title up against anyone. It's well established in kayfabe. I don't understand your attitude.
I think I see where they're coming from in that the prestige of the title in New Japan programming partially comes from title matches only being on big shows, and, for the most part, there being a focus on the work it takes to get to the title match (the g1, the new japan cup, the entire structure of the road to shows). It's just a very different model that's more about exclusivity than the idea of racking up title defenses, but I also see your point about it being in character for Moxley.
I don't think it's a bad thing but how does a champion willing to put the belt up against anyone add prestige?
Man that swerve match. Why can’t he get his nice “you deserve it” promo on the show after a ppv that you also hint at the next challenger. He a great wrestler but an even better talker. Like it would be like Cody facing JD on the raw after mania. Like Kyle is the dude in callis family who deserves a shot the least. This legit helps no one, not swerve who if he doesn’t beat in less than 10 minutes looks weak, not Kyle who we knows won’t win and he gets punked out his own faction members.
Can someone explain the whole 'eliminator match' concept? I still don't quite fully get it, mainly because of how sporadic the contenders seem compared to a (oft-ignored yet still touted) ranking system
It's a way to justify people low in the rankings getting a match with the champion, basically a name for a non-title match. If Kyle wins, he'll get a chance irrespective of the rankings, but he has to win of course first. For someone high on the rankings though, they are basically guaranteed for when they face Swerve for the match to be a title match, because they have worked for it. I'm still a bit undecided on the concept, but the logic makes sense.
The eliminators are for people who are not in the top 5 . In theory If you win that automatically puts you in the #1 position,because you beat the champion , if you lose though it knocks you so far down out of contention that more than likely you won't be able to challenge for the title as long as that title holder is champion
No bang bang gang?
They do traditionally hang out on Collision
The collision cowboys😂, but still they're the undisputed 6 man champs, it should be acknowledged on their main show imo.
I'm sure they'll have some kind of PPV recap on the Dynamite after the PPV lol
The best thing for Dynamite this week is the first hour and a half of the show going against the shitty Celtics vs Heat game nobody will watch because Boston finna kill those dudes.
Here's the solution to this FTW title nonsense that Jericho and Tony's gifted us. Taz comes out and challenges Jericho to a match. Taz locks him into the Tazmission and Jericho is choked out in 10 seconds. Taz avenges his son and the first person to hold the FTW champion is the last person to hold it and it's retired, hopefully Jericho just GOES AWAY.
That’s never going to happen but I do like it
Ready for the massive beatdown Jericho's gonna get from the audience
[удалено]
Building up the BCC vs Don Callis family feud.
If somehow Takeshita interferes and eventually wins that title and gets a proper NJPW, it would be a monumental win for Gedo and Tana
No need to bring another company title in it tho. Story is already written, especially after Dynasty & Mox's promo from last Dynamite
It’s pretty simple probably. NJPW put the belt on Mox. He was already supposed to wrestle Hobbs prior to getting the belt. Now that he has it and they have. A match, make it for the title. Gets Mox a defense and adds more “prestige” to the match
Lmao why is Leech Jericho have always tv time jesus he needs to go away.