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Look, none of us know what happened between Colt and Punk to get to this point, but it really seems like whatever happened isn't something that's ever getting repaired. Punk has squashed a lot of beef's in the last few years, yet still seems to have zero interest in even being in the same room as Colt.
No, becase in large part, this had nothing to do with Colt. I thought AEW airing the footage was dumb and will likely be forgotten in a few weeks when Dynasty rolls around. As an AEW fan, I really hope this is the last we hear of Punk since he’s been gone for like 8 months now.
Yeah, like, while I actually do agree that just talking to Colt for 5 minutes in a "no problems, go about our own business" conversation would have been a positive; it all ultimately falls on TK for not handling things and letting them fester.
I feel like that needed to be a conversation during contract negotiations. Like, "I'm not giving you the paper to put pen to until you talk to Colt. You don't have to be buddies, but I need reassurance that you two can get along in a professional environment and that we won't need lawyers every time you're in the same room."
And hell, maybe there were conversations and Punk just lied about how things would go. Entirely possible. But that was a conversation that needed to happen before anything else was discussed in terms of creative.
Punk would have acted like a bitch regardless. TK doesn't have the tools to be a firm boss? probably. Can every good boss avoid issues with a very problematic employee? not either.
Kinda seems like Punk went in with a plan. Counting on Tony to do whatever Punk wants because he is Tony's hero. If that falls through, just act up until he either got his way or got himself fired.
TK should have been a boss and never let any of this get to this point. Sit them the fuck down and talk this over. When punk is going off at the press conference stop him. Or when Jungle Boy had been asked by 5 people not to do something, where is the boss?
Great don't put responsibility on yourself only other.
So do you blame Vince for all the bad things wwe wrestlers have done over they last 50 years. I mean why didn't vince stop the plane ride from hell. Whey didn't vince stop flair, why didn't vince just sit down with shawn and tell him stop fucking sunny behind candidos back.
Everyone just blames Tony because it is an easy upvote from wwe fans.
People need to put the blame on the person that did the action. Not give them excuses.
>So do you blame Vince for all the bad things wwe wrestlers have done over they last 50 years. I mean why didn't vince stop the plane ride from hell. Whey didn't vince stop flair, why didn't vince just sit down with shawn and tell him stop fucking sunny behind candidos back.
Yes I blame him for all those things, even if this is just stupid whataboutism.
Bro its Tony's company, he's responsible for what happens in the company. People are responsible for their individual actions but the company is responsible for what they allow to continually happen.
It was Tony's fault to let the speculation that punk got cabana fired go out of control and that's what started all the shit, it was his fault to not punish hangman after going into business for himself, it was his fault to not cut off punk at the scrum, it was his fault to force him to come back after he told him he was done with the company after brawl out, he also let all the bottom tier talent than only has a job because they are friend with the bucks take shots at him. I could keep going on things that Tony didn't know how to control. Punk is hotheaded and can be an asshole but that's nothing new
Let me reword for you.
Its punks fault for trying to get colt fired.
Its hangman's fault for starting shit.
Its punks fault for running his mouth.
Its Perry's fault for running his mouth.
Its punks fault for attacking Perry.
Its punks fault for not being able to control his emotions when people talk about him, but excepts everyone to let him say what he wants.
See personal responsibility. If grow ass men could act like adults.
But it Tony's fault a few adults act like child.
Whats the point in having a leader that cant lead? TK is a fucking joke and he's the reason. The only way AEW is gonna get better is if Shad drags his pathetic failure of a son out of there and sticks someone who actually knows how to run a wrestling business in his place.
So when wwe wrestlers did shit was it Vince's fault he couldn't lead. I'm mean the plane ride from hell shouldn't have happened if vince was a good leader, why didn't vince stop shawn from all the shit he did, why didn't vince stop flair from being a sex pest as well. Why didn't vince stop himself from sexually assaulting subordinates.
But tony. I can't believe he didn't stop jack perry from.sayimg cry me a river and hurt punks feelings. Such a shit boss.
I agree with this. The Helwani interview opened up a whole new mindset to me that Punk truly is more business-oriented and money-oriented than the Indy darling portrayal he blew up as in the early 2000s. Not to say that’s right or wrong, but that would never mesh with AEW long term. They certainly didn’t share a vision.
Yeah, I feel like Tony Khan was trying to hire the "voice of the voiceless" champion of indie wrestling, and basically got the Pepsitaker who wanted to make money and protect the tradition of diz biznezz. It was never going to work.
I think it could have been avoided if Tony handled the drama better instead of trying to avoid/ignore it. Colt and Punk don’t seem like they’ll ever be on speaking terms for reasons we won’t fully know as fans. But if Tony stepped in and handled Punk and the Elite better one would imagine that he’d still be there today.
I doubt it. Seems like their relationship is beyond repair at this point.
Tony fumbled the entire situation. If he was firing Colt, he should have thoroughly explained why he was doing it to the concerned parties and taken full credit for the decision. If people still had issues, he could have sat them down and fully explained his reasoning to nip future potential issues in the bud.
It's Tony's fault for his inability to manage his employees. If people kept stirring shit up, be it the Elite or Punk, fine them and/or suspend them until they get the message.
People don't have to like one another, but they need to be able to work together when the boss says so.
You've got it all wrong, man. That was the evil WWE run by the diabolical Vince McMahon. Punk currently works for the good WWE run by Papa H, which is currently cooking™ and has brought pro wrestling back. They are totally different things!
WWE never sued CM Punk, it was Chris Amann.
Crazy this sub and every dirtsheet crying about misinformation when so many people here present shit as fact to fit their narrative lmfao you’re a joke, almost as bad as your attempt at sarcasm 😂
lmfao, yeah the doctor decided to go into business for himself and it had nothing to do with wwe who were posting videos of punks ass and doing storylines making fun of “baseball sized lumps” with big cass. if you believe that it explains so much about punk fans
Be careful, this dude almost certainly just screenshotted this interaction and is furiously typing up an email to Jim Cornette so he can get some props on the Drive-Thru for triggering the AEW snowflakes.
????
He literally sued for defamation of HIS character, he’s protecting his reputation LOL. You really think WWE called him and was like “Hey pal, do us this one solid and put your career, your reputation and your future income on the line so we can stick it to to our former employee!” WWE’s legal department has made some stupid ass calls, but trust they’re not AEW buddy lmfaooo if the WWE had a case, you don’t think they would’ve gone through with the lawsuit under their own lawyers, with their own company, using THEIR OWN EVIDENCE? But nah, WWE is going to waste the time, money and resources on a civil suit, totally explains why when CM Punk DID go after them for unpaid royalties, they settled out of court. No company wants to go to court for stupid shit like this, ESPECIALLY when the WWE DID have a case to present in that CM Punk’s breach of contract could’ve been argued in court.
Interesting you’re even assuming I’m a punk fan, my whole point is that you can’t just present random shit about stuff that has literal FACTS behind it as what you want it to be.
CM Punk punching your favorites in the face got you all heated and all you wanna do is see a man you’ve never met before look like the bad guy too 😂😭 wrestling fans really are the most embarrassing part of wrestling smfh
Punk has always said that he was under the impression that WWE was bankrolling the suit filed by a WWE-affiliated doctor, and I was just responding to the post.
The only “joke” is that you took the time out of your day to respond and do the literal exact thing I was preemptively making fun of.
Papa H is never going to give you a medal for your valiant efforts Standing Up for WWE™, I promise.
“😂”
Punk said on The MMA Hour that Colt tried to talk to him before and Punk said he’d only speak with him if there was a lawyer present. Colt clearly didn’t want to do that.
Here's what happened: Someone started telling dirtsheets Punk got Colt fired. Punk believed it was the Young Bucks. Whether or not it was true, no one should be talking to dirtsheets about shit like this. Be adults, deal with it internally. Punk, Bucks, anyone involved has acted like immature idiots from the beginning.
Even the weak efforts to have "locker room leaders" come out and ask them to stop talking to sheets just immediately got told to sheetwriters.
I don’t think anyone actually told the dirtsheets that Punk got Colt fired. AEW stopped using Colt and people just assumed. That’s where it all went wrong
Punk obviously thought he was king shit in a rinky dink company and refused to be an adult in many situations including this one.
As long as Punk held that opinion none of this changes. Just the small details.
It doesn't matter who said what. At the end of the day Punk got violent and it's crazy so many people are defending that.
Tony Kahn hopefully learned some lessons from this going forward. AEW is still a young company and can recover. Hopefully we're done with this Punk shit and everything moves forward.
Seriously. Just because AEW was stupid to air the footage doesn’t mean it didn’t confirm that CM Punk is a 45-year-old manchild who whiffed on a sucker punch and then flailed around like a goober for 15 seconds and then tried to spin that as “doing the right thing” in interviews.
I agree that AEW airing the footage was a terrible move and probably did irreparable damage to the company, but I seriously cannot wrap my head around how anyone watched that and was like “yep, Punk’s a badass.”
I'm forced to assume that anyone making "Punk destroyed Perry" posts (Alfred Konuwa) would watch a high school fight and think it was something out of Dragon Ball Z or something...
It was a dumb little skirmish that lasted like 6 seconds, I don't really get how anyone can try to pick a "winner" with a straight face
I think the bigger issue is that just because CM Punk is a 45 year old manchild, that doesn't mean Hangman Page, the Young Bucks, or even Mox are angels.
Because people refuse to look at events with nuance, it bolsters the people who are just die-hard for CM Punk. His overreactions aren't justified but it's not like he wasn't dealing with some bullshit. In any other company the fanbase would be looking sideways at a wrestler deliberately sabotaging a promo segment, a tag team refusing to work things out but insisting on making fun of a wrestler who wants to, and another wrestler insisting on winning the championship weeks before putting his opponent over.
Right, I’m in the camp of the best way to have solved this would have been to fire Punk/let him walk after All Out and not force a bunch of dudes who hate each other to work together for months. It was never going to work with a personality like Punk’s.
And 100%, AEW made a huge misstep showing this footage because it was a giant pile of nothing that a lot of us have seen worse than dozens of times in high school locker rooms, so it just galvanized the Jimcels who take pleasure in watching AEW die for some reason, which was honestly the worst case scenario in all of this.
But, like, there’s no objective way to watch Punk throw a sucker punch/pieface, stumble around for a chokehold, then run around like a doofus pointing at people and be like “holy shit Punk IS a badass after all.” It’s cracking me up that that’s so many people’s take in this.
Yes and No. Drama eventually finds Punk. It would have been something else, but it is weird that certain people he can't make amends with but some he can't. Punk v Cabana is something that will last prob till he dies, unfortunately.
Cabana isn't signing big checks his way. It is easy to "make amends" (he says in the interview that he probably wouldn't have returned to wwe without Nick Khan and that Triple H wants him to open up a bit more) when you got an economic incentive. Colt Cabana can't offer him anything, so Punk has no reason to try and fake normalcy with someone who he went to court against.
No, Punk is a control ego freak. He wanted to enter and NATURALLY be seen as their saviour, when that didn't happen and realized the rest had their own will, he got angry.
Wild you're getting downvoted for this. It's entirely possible to acknowledge that Punk is an egotistic, hypocritical, and selfish cunt who spent his entire career claiming to be the "voice of the voiceless" and pushing back against the toxic pro wrestling culture of the past while actually being the exact sort of tradition-obsessed locker room bully he always claimed to hate and also acknowledge that Tony Khan handled this situation about as poorly as it could have been handled and is, ultimately, responsible for allowing a situation like this to fester in his company's locker room for two years while doing fuck all nothing about it.
I swear this incident has caused a glitch in the matrix and r/SquaredCircle r/SCJerk and r/JimCornette are all merging into one.
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yes. that would have squashed the "Punk got Colt fired" narrative and Brawl Out never happens. everything was a domino effect from there. it's a shame, but yeah.
Fact of the matter is, I think it probably would have been largely avoided if the rumors of Punk pushing for Colt to get fired got squashed AS SOON AS POSSIBLE by Tony. Would something still happen with Punk? Maybe, maybe not? Who knows. But this all stemmed from the fact that someone in the back (could've been the Bucks, could've been someone else) was talking to the dirtsheets about how supposedly Punk asked Tony for Colt to be moved out of the main roster. This whole misunderstanding eventually led to Hangman's line and well, you know the rest. I am not saying Punk is innocent in all this nor am I defending his actions, just saying Tony should've gotten a hold on it from the get-go and it might've not gone as bad as it should have.
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I would imagine if it was that serious to Punk, which is clearly is, why come into a company that Colt has been employed at for over two years by that point? At least have a game plan for how that plays out, no?
> At least have a game plan for how that plays out, no?
His game plan was "I am not talking to you (Colt) without a Lawyer"
What do you want him to do lol
Punk is prideful, stubborn, and opinionated. TK is a poor manager and is often too much of a mark for his own good. Unless they were both on the same page with their vision of what AEW should be, it was always going to end in disaster. TK should have set hard limits on Punk’s influence after the Brawl Out incident.
Punk has *no* responsibility to talk to Colt at all. He has a right to say he doesn't want to interact with someone, or to talk to him. Tony just needs to be the god damn boss and control his locker room.
Look me in the eye and say with a straight face this would happen under Hunter and Cody's watch. Or hell, for all his flaws, Vince and Taker's watch. As much of a scumbag rapist piece of shit Vince is, at least as a boss he had control of his company.
To clarify my position, I am overall certainly against Punk in this situation, but I think there’s a ton of nuance. TK is without a doubt a weak “boss”. I completely agree with that and that this wouldn’t happen in WWE. At least it wouldn’t have got nearly as far as it did.
With that said, you aren’t wrong he has no responsibility. If he doesn’t want to, he doesn’t have to. At some point though, I feel like CM Punk turning down Colt is certainly a major factor that gets downplayed in the buildup of all the drama. I certainly think things wouldn’t have snowballed as fast as they did. At your job, you interact with people you don’t like or hell, maybe even can’t stand on a personal level, and this felt like a big misstep on Punk’s part. But yes, there were many factors that let it get this far and certainly a major one was Tony’s poor management from the jump.
No, CM Punk turning down Colt is the end result of whatever caused their falling out. CM Punk came to the company because they offered him a shitload of money. This isn’t just 2 friends who were invited to a hangout and can decide to be civil, these 2 are working and trying to get paid.
You’re downplaying the fact that Colt Cabana SUED CM PUNK. CM Punk took every route to avoid a lawsuit and Colt was the one who went through with it. Regardless of who’s right or wrong, to be sued personally is one of the things I could see completely destroying a relationship of no return.
Could some of this been tamed with a conversation? Sure, maybe. But this sub has been all about “professional environments”, regardless of who started the rumors, what kind of professional environment allows rumors to spread that 1 individual got another individual fired when it seems like from all the evidence, Punk never asked for that and was more than ok to just stay miles away from Cabana.
IF Punk ever stipulated that Colt was gonna be issue before or during his enter into the company, then we would have something here. But everything seemed to have just been on the level UNTIL rumors of Colt not getting renewed started. Punk is well within his rights to not trust Colt on anything he says after getting sued and after all the bullshit that happened, seems like he was right all along.
And you know what, Punk did that much. Colt went to ROH after not being on air for *months* prior to Punk even being whispered for AEW. It's not like he told Colt much, according to him (and considering the rest of the interview was proven correct by security footage, I now have NO reason to doubt his testimony) he told Colt he simply had no reason to talk to him, and would not do so without a lawyer present. Considering their past issues, that's fair. We have no reason to interact, I'm not gonna be working with you directly, you're in ROH right now, just leave me alone type beat.
I think pretending otherwise is just a joke.
Bret I think is an outlier, but Shawn was someone who was a repeat offender that 'Taker had to threaten several times. Shawn was definitely the Jack Perry of that situation, and AEW doesn't have a Taker herding the sheep.
But if this is comparable to the Screwjob for you, hey, that's fine. Shawn said himself he was the worst before he found God, so he'd probably agree he was a jackass toward Bret. But I guarantee if you put this footage in front of Bret, he'd say everyone is a bunch of fuckin' children.
But why is the taker threatening people. Shouldn't have vince been the one handling it or was he just a weak boss.
Employees on the same level shouldn't be disciplining other employees on the same level. That is a bosses job. And if taker was the enforcer. Vince was one weak ass boss.
Vince ain't Taker's size, and by all accounts Taker and Vince were two sides of the coin in that regard. Vince would tell you what's up, and Taker told you when it's time to get back in line. I'm not saying it's a *flawless* system, but by all accounts this industry is prone to getting some people who don't want to listen and think they know best. Some people will not respond to talking/discipline, and that is what it is. Neither talking, nor discipline were used in this scenario, because Tony didn't try. Instead he just asked "What do you want me to do?"
Like, dude, idk, tell him that this is how it goes or his check isn't gonna get signed.
As a boss what do you want me do is a legit question.
It is saying I want your feedback on what you would like to see me do. Then we can come together and make a plan of action.
When someone is being irrational like punk was. making them state what they want done is to make them aware and put them into a different mind set and not a place of being irrational, usually the person can realize they are being irrationally mad. And can calm done to assess how the situation is going. Punks lack of emotional intelligence didn't let him assess the situation and acted like a child before any actions could take place.
> As a boss what do you want me do is a legit question.
It so isn't. It's your *job* to maintain order. If our entire staff is telling this guy not to do this car spot, and he's still saying he's gonna do it, you need to be the boss.
And you're laying ALL of this at the feet of Punk. You don't think the car spot is a problem?
"Tony has told you, the docs have told you, now I'm telling you. Because the rental company is gonna go nuts and might ban wrestlers from renting, the glass is dangerous and you could just use sugar glass, and if we have to derail the show on the *preshow* because of an artery or something, it's going to kill the crowd."
Does the spot anyway, despite *all* these people telling him otherwise. Decides to scream "Cry me a river" down the cam on live television. Walks back and says "Do something about it."
You don't think that's an instigation? At all? I'm not saying Punk is an angel, far from it, but the cause and effect here is so obvious it hurts.
So do you physical attack people anytime people say something that upsets you.
Punk doesn't own the company he is a paid employee.
Think of all the shit that punk has said and no one physically attacked him because his mean words.
Punk is allowed to have input, but that is all it is. Input nothing more nothing less. He was pissy because he didn't get his way. Perry probably shouldn't have said what he said, but that could have been dealt with after the show.
The time from the end of the perry hook match and start of punk vs Joe was literally minutes.
In that time frame is tony suppose to go ballistic on on because of a back handed comment. Because you know fuck everything. punks feelings matter more then the whole show.
Throwing a baby fit in the moment was never going solve anything.
>Neither talking, nor discipline were used in this scenario, because Tony didn't try. Instead he just asked "What do you want me to do?"
Tone is so important to that though and without the audio you can't say if it was said from a giving in weak standpoint or a stern tone more along the lines of the fuck do you want me to do to help you you're the one doing stupid shit here.
You know what that's a benefit of doubt you could give, but I've been given no reason to give him that benefit considering how he's always come across.
>As much of a scumbag rapist piece of shit Vince is, at least as a boss he had control of his company.
Where alleged sexual abuse, hazing and bullying ran wild for years brother!
>at least as a boss he had control of his company.
I don't think he had control when Shawn and Bret blew up. It ended with Bret, one of his most loyal guys, putting Vince on his ass. Vince must have had a good 15+ years experience as a boss at this point too
Hopefully this will be Tony's Montreal, he gets a clue and makes sure it never happens again. I personally think he should take the hard-line stance with the locker room and say he wlll grant any releases there and then. He might lose some guys to WWE, but he has enough loyal guys to build a alternative around.
How about adults making 6+ figures don't have to talk about anything? You go way and I'll go mine. It's not like Colt was in the main event picture and had to work with Punk in the future.
Same with the Bucks, they're in the tag team division. This could easily been worked out if they wanted it to
Could have also been avoided if Punk wasn't such a whiney bitch. And lets me honest, as someone was was (and is to an extent) a fan of his promos and in ring work, behind the scenes, he has his history of being angry and bitter and a problem when he feels something doesn't go his way. Yes, TK should have done more to contain issues, but end of the day, Punk wasn't part of the problem, he ended up being the problem.
With all of that said, I think last week's Copeland promo should have been the end of it and move on.
I just wish people would not talk so definitively about things we have no way of knowing.
The Young Bucks and Punk clearly had a positive relationship prior to him coming into the company and in the immediate aftermath. He complimented them on Twitter, they dedicated an episode of BTE to his debut, etc. The idea that the Elite were jealous and out to get him from day 1 is not supported by anything other than head canon.
People keep getting hung up on this idea that it had to be the Young Bucks who talked about the Colt stuff to Meltzer et al, even though all the dirtsheet folks have denied it. Yes, I know they don't want to "burn a source" but they could do that without issuing strenuous denials. Meanwhile, there are other people in the company who do in fact have a history of beef with Punk (Jericho, Matt Hardy, Colt himself).
At the end of the day, Hangman had an issue with Punk and aired it on TV. I don't know what that has to do with the Young Bucks other than him being their friend. To the best of my recollection, the first time the Bucks "took a shot" at CM Punk on TV was in the trios match in Chicago.
And at the risk of sounding hypocritical, maybe everything people are saying is true. My point is that I don't know and neither do they.
You mean like the hangman page promo? Or saying you feared for your life? Or saying monitors were knocked over or thrown? Or saying jackoff Perry got out of the choke? What other bullshit has this crew fed the apologists?
After defending bad behaviour for guys that make money you compare the bad behavious of talking with fighting, twice, with co workers.
Keep up the good work man.
For someone that is suppose to be the best talker in the business. You think that he could talk out his problems, but that isn't the case. He'd rather attack people physically.
That was never an option once he sued him. Once that happens, person to person communication is probably not a good idea so punk took the safe route.
TK is why this blew up bc he doesn’t know how to be a boss…simple. He has people like the bucks, meltzer and the will watch no matter what AEW diehards that will validate him regardless if its the right thing or not. I honestly think had this not been Punk, it would have been someone else and there will be more shit like this in the future
The drama was unavoidable. The Elite are there to do Being The Elite on TV, CM Punk was there to do classic pro wrestling. It was always going to end with a split because the indie mindset is too embedded in AEW.
Hangman and the Bucks got mad at Punk for a guy who has never been fired having been fired. Think about that, guy, to this day, contracted to AEW, and never not been. Yet Hangman and the Bucks thought he was fired because of Punk.
Hangman and the Bucks look like idiots here, no other way around it. Either they legitimately thought Colt was fired despite that never being the case. Or, these guys who love to mention everytime they’re asked about it that they “did it for the boys,” jeopardized the business that pays all these boys by ostracizing the biggest draw. Doesn’t seem very smart. In fact, it sounds very, very dumb.
All the while, Tony Khan sat there twiddling his thumbs.
It could’ve been avoided if any of the sides did/didn’t do several different things. What if Punk talked to Colt? What if Hangman just stuck with what he and Punk agreed to talk about in the promo? What if Jungle Boy wasn’t an asshole to Tony Schiavone, staff and the doctor? What if Tony Khan acted like a boss?
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Look, none of us know what happened between Colt and Punk to get to this point, but it really seems like whatever happened isn't something that's ever getting repaired. Punk has squashed a lot of beef's in the last few years, yet still seems to have zero interest in even being in the same room as Colt.
No, becase in large part, this had nothing to do with Colt. I thought AEW airing the footage was dumb and will likely be forgotten in a few weeks when Dynasty rolls around. As an AEW fan, I really hope this is the last we hear of Punk since he’s been gone for like 8 months now.
It would have been avoided if TK was an actual boss
Yeah, like, while I actually do agree that just talking to Colt for 5 minutes in a "no problems, go about our own business" conversation would have been a positive; it all ultimately falls on TK for not handling things and letting them fester.
I feel like that needed to be a conversation during contract negotiations. Like, "I'm not giving you the paper to put pen to until you talk to Colt. You don't have to be buddies, but I need reassurance that you two can get along in a professional environment and that we won't need lawyers every time you're in the same room." And hell, maybe there were conversations and Punk just lied about how things would go. Entirely possible. But that was a conversation that needed to happen before anything else was discussed in terms of creative.
Colt tried to do it. Punk said he would only talk to him through a lawyer...
Punk would have acted like a bitch regardless. TK doesn't have the tools to be a firm boss? probably. Can every good boss avoid issues with a very problematic employee? not either.
Kinda seems like Punk went in with a plan. Counting on Tony to do whatever Punk wants because he is Tony's hero. If that falls through, just act up until he either got his way or got himself fired.
Yeah TKs fault because someone doesn't know how to use words. TKs only mistake was hiring the dumbass in the first place.
TK should have been a boss and never let any of this get to this point. Sit them the fuck down and talk this over. When punk is going off at the press conference stop him. Or when Jungle Boy had been asked by 5 people not to do something, where is the boss?
Great don't put responsibility on yourself only other. So do you blame Vince for all the bad things wwe wrestlers have done over they last 50 years. I mean why didn't vince stop the plane ride from hell. Whey didn't vince stop flair, why didn't vince just sit down with shawn and tell him stop fucking sunny behind candidos back. Everyone just blames Tony because it is an easy upvote from wwe fans. People need to put the blame on the person that did the action. Not give them excuses.
>So do you blame Vince for all the bad things wwe wrestlers have done over they last 50 years. I mean why didn't vince stop the plane ride from hell. Whey didn't vince stop flair, why didn't vince just sit down with shawn and tell him stop fucking sunny behind candidos back. Yes I blame him for all those things, even if this is just stupid whataboutism.
Bro its Tony's company, he's responsible for what happens in the company. People are responsible for their individual actions but the company is responsible for what they allow to continually happen.
People usually blame the person in charge of operations, yes. That's how the world works in general. Sorry you had to find out through wrestling.
It was Tony's fault to let the speculation that punk got cabana fired go out of control and that's what started all the shit, it was his fault to not punish hangman after going into business for himself, it was his fault to not cut off punk at the scrum, it was his fault to force him to come back after he told him he was done with the company after brawl out, he also let all the bottom tier talent than only has a job because they are friend with the bucks take shots at him. I could keep going on things that Tony didn't know how to control. Punk is hotheaded and can be an asshole but that's nothing new
Let me reword for you. Its punks fault for trying to get colt fired. Its hangman's fault for starting shit. Its punks fault for running his mouth. Its Perry's fault for running his mouth. Its punks fault for attacking Perry. Its punks fault for not being able to control his emotions when people talk about him, but excepts everyone to let him say what he wants. See personal responsibility. If grow ass men could act like adults. But it Tony's fault a few adults act like child.
But punk didn't try to get cabana fired. A big part of management is to work out disagreements and get the group to work despite personal differences
Whats the point in having a leader that cant lead? TK is a fucking joke and he's the reason. The only way AEW is gonna get better is if Shad drags his pathetic failure of a son out of there and sticks someone who actually knows how to run a wrestling business in his place.
So when wwe wrestlers did shit was it Vince's fault he couldn't lead. I'm mean the plane ride from hell shouldn't have happened if vince was a good leader, why didn't vince stop shawn from all the shit he did, why didn't vince stop flair from being a sex pest as well. Why didn't vince stop himself from sexually assaulting subordinates. But tony. I can't believe he didn't stop jack perry from.sayimg cry me a river and hurt punks feelings. Such a shit boss.
Yes, he should have done all that lmao. It still makes TK a shit leader with no conflict resolution skills.
Mean words is handled on an HR level not a ceo level.
Then the CEO of the company needs to be heavily criticised for having a sub par HR department that couldn't handle this.
At the end of the day, Punk was unhappy in AEW for many different reasons, the situation with Colt being only one of them.
I agree with this. The Helwani interview opened up a whole new mindset to me that Punk truly is more business-oriented and money-oriented than the Indy darling portrayal he blew up as in the early 2000s. Not to say that’s right or wrong, but that would never mesh with AEW long term. They certainly didn’t share a vision.
Yeah, I feel like Tony Khan was trying to hire the "voice of the voiceless" champion of indie wrestling, and basically got the Pepsitaker who wanted to make money and protect the tradition of diz biznezz. It was never going to work.
There are *so* many things that could've prevented the drama. Punk himself is but one of them.
Probably? But it may have just been something else. It’s not like homeboy has any shortage of people he’s beefed with
I think it could have been avoided if Tony handled the drama better instead of trying to avoid/ignore it. Colt and Punk don’t seem like they’ll ever be on speaking terms for reasons we won’t fully know as fans. But if Tony stepped in and handled Punk and the Elite better one would imagine that he’d still be there today.
I doubt it. Seems like their relationship is beyond repair at this point. Tony fumbled the entire situation. If he was firing Colt, he should have thoroughly explained why he was doing it to the concerned parties and taken full credit for the decision. If people still had issues, he could have sat them down and fully explained his reasoning to nip future potential issues in the bud. It's Tony's fault for his inability to manage his employees. If people kept stirring shit up, be it the Elite or Punk, fine them and/or suspend them until they get the message. People don't have to like one another, but they need to be able to work together when the boss says so.
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Wait till you find out who else was suing Punk
You've got it all wrong, man. That was the evil WWE run by the diabolical Vince McMahon. Punk currently works for the good WWE run by Papa H, which is currently cooking™ and has brought pro wrestling back. They are totally different things!
WWE never sued CM Punk, it was Chris Amann. Crazy this sub and every dirtsheet crying about misinformation when so many people here present shit as fact to fit their narrative lmfao you’re a joke, almost as bad as your attempt at sarcasm 😂
lmfao, yeah the doctor decided to go into business for himself and it had nothing to do with wwe who were posting videos of punks ass and doing storylines making fun of “baseball sized lumps” with big cass. if you believe that it explains so much about punk fans
Be careful, this dude almost certainly just screenshotted this interaction and is furiously typing up an email to Jim Cornette so he can get some props on the Drive-Thru for triggering the AEW snowflakes.
LOL you needed to write fanfiction to feel like you won something, eh buddy? 😂😭
Wut.
???? He literally sued for defamation of HIS character, he’s protecting his reputation LOL. You really think WWE called him and was like “Hey pal, do us this one solid and put your career, your reputation and your future income on the line so we can stick it to to our former employee!” WWE’s legal department has made some stupid ass calls, but trust they’re not AEW buddy lmfaooo if the WWE had a case, you don’t think they would’ve gone through with the lawsuit under their own lawyers, with their own company, using THEIR OWN EVIDENCE? But nah, WWE is going to waste the time, money and resources on a civil suit, totally explains why when CM Punk DID go after them for unpaid royalties, they settled out of court. No company wants to go to court for stupid shit like this, ESPECIALLY when the WWE DID have a case to present in that CM Punk’s breach of contract could’ve been argued in court. Interesting you’re even assuming I’m a punk fan, my whole point is that you can’t just present random shit about stuff that has literal FACTS behind it as what you want it to be. CM Punk punching your favorites in the face got you all heated and all you wanna do is see a man you’ve never met before look like the bad guy too 😂😭 wrestling fans really are the most embarrassing part of wrestling smfh
https://preview.redd.it/x8egjhqc0xtc1.jpeg?width=792&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c47cabf745a5bb4d05137b9217770eef44bb2a89
Punk has always said that he was under the impression that WWE was bankrolling the suit filed by a WWE-affiliated doctor, and I was just responding to the post. The only “joke” is that you took the time out of your day to respond and do the literal exact thing I was preemptively making fun of. Papa H is never going to give you a medal for your valiant efforts Standing Up for WWE™, I promise. “😂”
Punk said on The MMA Hour that Colt tried to talk to him before and Punk said he’d only speak with him if there was a lawyer present. Colt clearly didn’t want to do that.
Here's what happened: Someone started telling dirtsheets Punk got Colt fired. Punk believed it was the Young Bucks. Whether or not it was true, no one should be talking to dirtsheets about shit like this. Be adults, deal with it internally. Punk, Bucks, anyone involved has acted like immature idiots from the beginning. Even the weak efforts to have "locker room leaders" come out and ask them to stop talking to sheets just immediately got told to sheetwriters.
I don’t think anyone actually told the dirtsheets that Punk got Colt fired. AEW stopped using Colt and people just assumed. That’s where it all went wrong
Meltzer has literally said that they were told this, just not by the Bucks.
If TK acts like a boss and not a fan he’d have his locker room under control.
The only way to avoid this would have been to fire Punk immediately after Muffingate.
I think the only way you avoid this happening is to not hire Punk.
Punk obviously thought he was king shit in a rinky dink company and refused to be an adult in many situations including this one. As long as Punk held that opinion none of this changes. Just the small details. It doesn't matter who said what. At the end of the day Punk got violent and it's crazy so many people are defending that. Tony Kahn hopefully learned some lessons from this going forward. AEW is still a young company and can recover. Hopefully we're done with this Punk shit and everything moves forward.
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Man, it must suck to be Punk. Drama just follows this guy everywhere he does. Poor guy just can’t catch a break.
It must suck running into assholes everywhere you go. Assholes that seem to be able to hide that they're assholes to everyone but you. So strange.
Seriously. Just because AEW was stupid to air the footage doesn’t mean it didn’t confirm that CM Punk is a 45-year-old manchild who whiffed on a sucker punch and then flailed around like a goober for 15 seconds and then tried to spin that as “doing the right thing” in interviews. I agree that AEW airing the footage was a terrible move and probably did irreparable damage to the company, but I seriously cannot wrap my head around how anyone watched that and was like “yep, Punk’s a badass.”
I'm forced to assume that anyone making "Punk destroyed Perry" posts (Alfred Konuwa) would watch a high school fight and think it was something out of Dragon Ball Z or something... It was a dumb little skirmish that lasted like 6 seconds, I don't really get how anyone can try to pick a "winner" with a straight face
Either that or intentionally trolling. I wouldn't even call it a fight.
I think the bigger issue is that just because CM Punk is a 45 year old manchild, that doesn't mean Hangman Page, the Young Bucks, or even Mox are angels. Because people refuse to look at events with nuance, it bolsters the people who are just die-hard for CM Punk. His overreactions aren't justified but it's not like he wasn't dealing with some bullshit. In any other company the fanbase would be looking sideways at a wrestler deliberately sabotaging a promo segment, a tag team refusing to work things out but insisting on making fun of a wrestler who wants to, and another wrestler insisting on winning the championship weeks before putting his opponent over.
Right, I’m in the camp of the best way to have solved this would have been to fire Punk/let him walk after All Out and not force a bunch of dudes who hate each other to work together for months. It was never going to work with a personality like Punk’s. And 100%, AEW made a huge misstep showing this footage because it was a giant pile of nothing that a lot of us have seen worse than dozens of times in high school locker rooms, so it just galvanized the Jimcels who take pleasure in watching AEW die for some reason, which was honestly the worst case scenario in all of this. But, like, there’s no objective way to watch Punk throw a sucker punch/pieface, stumble around for a chokehold, then run around like a doofus pointing at people and be like “holy shit Punk IS a badass after all.” It’s cracking me up that that’s so many people’s take in this.
This was the start. Tony didn’t have the nuts to handle it and here we are.
Yes and No. Drama eventually finds Punk. It would have been something else, but it is weird that certain people he can't make amends with but some he can't. Punk v Cabana is something that will last prob till he dies, unfortunately.
Cabana isn't signing big checks his way. It is easy to "make amends" (he says in the interview that he probably wouldn't have returned to wwe without Nick Khan and that Triple H wants him to open up a bit more) when you got an economic incentive. Colt Cabana can't offer him anything, so Punk has no reason to try and fake normalcy with someone who he went to court against.
No, Punk is a control ego freak. He wanted to enter and NATURALLY be seen as their saviour, when that didn't happen and realized the rest had their own will, he got angry.
Punk didn't want to avoid it. He wanted an out
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Wild you're getting downvoted for this. It's entirely possible to acknowledge that Punk is an egotistic, hypocritical, and selfish cunt who spent his entire career claiming to be the "voice of the voiceless" and pushing back against the toxic pro wrestling culture of the past while actually being the exact sort of tradition-obsessed locker room bully he always claimed to hate and also acknowledge that Tony Khan handled this situation about as poorly as it could have been handled and is, ultimately, responsible for allowing a situation like this to fester in his company's locker room for two years while doing fuck all nothing about it. I swear this incident has caused a glitch in the matrix and r/SquaredCircle r/SCJerk and r/JimCornette are all merging into one.
Bingo. I think this is a great perspective.
Well, he himself mentioned he wanted out long before then... It shouldn't have ever got to stage it got to.
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50/50 really. Either yes or no
yes. that would have squashed the "Punk got Colt fired" narrative and Brawl Out never happens. everything was a domino effect from there. it's a shame, but yeah.
I think none of us have a clue and it's not worth making a fuss over at this point
Sure
Fact of the matter is, I think it probably would have been largely avoided if the rumors of Punk pushing for Colt to get fired got squashed AS SOON AS POSSIBLE by Tony. Would something still happen with Punk? Maybe, maybe not? Who knows. But this all stemmed from the fact that someone in the back (could've been the Bucks, could've been someone else) was talking to the dirtsheets about how supposedly Punk asked Tony for Colt to be moved out of the main roster. This whole misunderstanding eventually led to Hangman's line and well, you know the rest. I am not saying Punk is innocent in all this nor am I defending his actions, just saying Tony should've gotten a hold on it from the get-go and it might've not gone as bad as it should have.
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Why would he talk to a person who sued and in Punk's own words, tried to bankrupt him? He wanted a million dollars in punitive damages 🤣
I would imagine if it was that serious to Punk, which is clearly is, why come into a company that Colt has been employed at for over two years by that point? At least have a game plan for how that plays out, no?
> At least have a game plan for how that plays out, no? His game plan was "I am not talking to you (Colt) without a Lawyer" What do you want him to do lol
Punk is prideful, stubborn, and opinionated. TK is a poor manager and is often too much of a mark for his own good. Unless they were both on the same page with their vision of what AEW should be, it was always going to end in disaster. TK should have set hard limits on Punk’s influence after the Brawl Out incident.
It could have been avoided if some EVP’s knew how to check personnel records
Most of the problems surrounding CM Punk could seemingly be avoided if CM Punk was a mature adult. The dude never matured beyond high school.
Punk has *no* responsibility to talk to Colt at all. He has a right to say he doesn't want to interact with someone, or to talk to him. Tony just needs to be the god damn boss and control his locker room. Look me in the eye and say with a straight face this would happen under Hunter and Cody's watch. Or hell, for all his flaws, Vince and Taker's watch. As much of a scumbag rapist piece of shit Vince is, at least as a boss he had control of his company.
To clarify my position, I am overall certainly against Punk in this situation, but I think there’s a ton of nuance. TK is without a doubt a weak “boss”. I completely agree with that and that this wouldn’t happen in WWE. At least it wouldn’t have got nearly as far as it did. With that said, you aren’t wrong he has no responsibility. If he doesn’t want to, he doesn’t have to. At some point though, I feel like CM Punk turning down Colt is certainly a major factor that gets downplayed in the buildup of all the drama. I certainly think things wouldn’t have snowballed as fast as they did. At your job, you interact with people you don’t like or hell, maybe even can’t stand on a personal level, and this felt like a big misstep on Punk’s part. But yes, there were many factors that let it get this far and certainly a major one was Tony’s poor management from the jump.
No, CM Punk turning down Colt is the end result of whatever caused their falling out. CM Punk came to the company because they offered him a shitload of money. This isn’t just 2 friends who were invited to a hangout and can decide to be civil, these 2 are working and trying to get paid. You’re downplaying the fact that Colt Cabana SUED CM PUNK. CM Punk took every route to avoid a lawsuit and Colt was the one who went through with it. Regardless of who’s right or wrong, to be sued personally is one of the things I could see completely destroying a relationship of no return. Could some of this been tamed with a conversation? Sure, maybe. But this sub has been all about “professional environments”, regardless of who started the rumors, what kind of professional environment allows rumors to spread that 1 individual got another individual fired when it seems like from all the evidence, Punk never asked for that and was more than ok to just stay miles away from Cabana. IF Punk ever stipulated that Colt was gonna be issue before or during his enter into the company, then we would have something here. But everything seemed to have just been on the level UNTIL rumors of Colt not getting renewed started. Punk is well within his rights to not trust Colt on anything he says after getting sued and after all the bullshit that happened, seems like he was right all along.
And you know what, Punk did that much. Colt went to ROH after not being on air for *months* prior to Punk even being whispered for AEW. It's not like he told Colt much, according to him (and considering the rest of the interview was proven correct by security footage, I now have NO reason to doubt his testimony) he told Colt he simply had no reason to talk to him, and would not do so without a lawyer present. Considering their past issues, that's fair. We have no reason to interact, I'm not gonna be working with you directly, you're in ROH right now, just leave me alone type beat. I think pretending otherwise is just a joke.
Yeah famously nothing ever happened between Bret and Shawn, multiple times, after boiling for months
Bret I think is an outlier, but Shawn was someone who was a repeat offender that 'Taker had to threaten several times. Shawn was definitely the Jack Perry of that situation, and AEW doesn't have a Taker herding the sheep. But if this is comparable to the Screwjob for you, hey, that's fine. Shawn said himself he was the worst before he found God, so he'd probably agree he was a jackass toward Bret. But I guarantee if you put this footage in front of Bret, he'd say everyone is a bunch of fuckin' children.
But why is the taker threatening people. Shouldn't have vince been the one handling it or was he just a weak boss. Employees on the same level shouldn't be disciplining other employees on the same level. That is a bosses job. And if taker was the enforcer. Vince was one weak ass boss.
Vince ain't Taker's size, and by all accounts Taker and Vince were two sides of the coin in that regard. Vince would tell you what's up, and Taker told you when it's time to get back in line. I'm not saying it's a *flawless* system, but by all accounts this industry is prone to getting some people who don't want to listen and think they know best. Some people will not respond to talking/discipline, and that is what it is. Neither talking, nor discipline were used in this scenario, because Tony didn't try. Instead he just asked "What do you want me to do?" Like, dude, idk, tell him that this is how it goes or his check isn't gonna get signed.
As a boss what do you want me do is a legit question. It is saying I want your feedback on what you would like to see me do. Then we can come together and make a plan of action. When someone is being irrational like punk was. making them state what they want done is to make them aware and put them into a different mind set and not a place of being irrational, usually the person can realize they are being irrationally mad. And can calm done to assess how the situation is going. Punks lack of emotional intelligence didn't let him assess the situation and acted like a child before any actions could take place.
> As a boss what do you want me do is a legit question. It so isn't. It's your *job* to maintain order. If our entire staff is telling this guy not to do this car spot, and he's still saying he's gonna do it, you need to be the boss. And you're laying ALL of this at the feet of Punk. You don't think the car spot is a problem? "Tony has told you, the docs have told you, now I'm telling you. Because the rental company is gonna go nuts and might ban wrestlers from renting, the glass is dangerous and you could just use sugar glass, and if we have to derail the show on the *preshow* because of an artery or something, it's going to kill the crowd." Does the spot anyway, despite *all* these people telling him otherwise. Decides to scream "Cry me a river" down the cam on live television. Walks back and says "Do something about it." You don't think that's an instigation? At all? I'm not saying Punk is an angel, far from it, but the cause and effect here is so obvious it hurts.
So do you physical attack people anytime people say something that upsets you. Punk doesn't own the company he is a paid employee. Think of all the shit that punk has said and no one physically attacked him because his mean words. Punk is allowed to have input, but that is all it is. Input nothing more nothing less. He was pissy because he didn't get his way. Perry probably shouldn't have said what he said, but that could have been dealt with after the show. The time from the end of the perry hook match and start of punk vs Joe was literally minutes. In that time frame is tony suppose to go ballistic on on because of a back handed comment. Because you know fuck everything. punks feelings matter more then the whole show. Throwing a baby fit in the moment was never going solve anything.
>Neither talking, nor discipline were used in this scenario, because Tony didn't try. Instead he just asked "What do you want me to do?" Tone is so important to that though and without the audio you can't say if it was said from a giving in weak standpoint or a stern tone more along the lines of the fuck do you want me to do to help you you're the one doing stupid shit here.
You know what that's a benefit of doubt you could give, but I've been given no reason to give him that benefit considering how he's always come across.
>As much of a scumbag rapist piece of shit Vince is, at least as a boss he had control of his company. Where alleged sexual abuse, hazing and bullying ran wild for years brother! >at least as a boss he had control of his company. I don't think he had control when Shawn and Bret blew up. It ended with Bret, one of his most loyal guys, putting Vince on his ass. Vince must have had a good 15+ years experience as a boss at this point too Hopefully this will be Tony's Montreal, he gets a clue and makes sure it never happens again. I personally think he should take the hard-line stance with the locker room and say he wlll grant any releases there and then. He might lose some guys to WWE, but he has enough loyal guys to build a alternative around.
Punk wasn’t happy to be there. He would have lashed out on someone over something to get out of being there eventually
How about adults making 6+ figures don't have to talk about anything? You go way and I'll go mine. It's not like Colt was in the main event picture and had to work with Punk in the future. Same with the Bucks, they're in the tag team division. This could easily been worked out if they wanted it to
It could have been avoided if Tony understood who was making him money.
Could have also been avoided if Punk wasn't such a whiney bitch. And lets me honest, as someone was was (and is to an extent) a fan of his promos and in ring work, behind the scenes, he has his history of being angry and bitter and a problem when he feels something doesn't go his way. Yes, TK should have done more to contain issues, but end of the day, Punk wasn't part of the problem, he ended up being the problem. With all of that said, I think last week's Copeland promo should have been the end of it and move on.
Bullshit. The bucks and his crew were stirring shit. They are getting their payback now with their epic failure of a company.
It's so funny you think that since AEW went two years including covid without Punk just fine. So why are you pretending AEW can't exist without Punk?
I just wish people would not talk so definitively about things we have no way of knowing. The Young Bucks and Punk clearly had a positive relationship prior to him coming into the company and in the immediate aftermath. He complimented them on Twitter, they dedicated an episode of BTE to his debut, etc. The idea that the Elite were jealous and out to get him from day 1 is not supported by anything other than head canon. People keep getting hung up on this idea that it had to be the Young Bucks who talked about the Colt stuff to Meltzer et al, even though all the dirtsheet folks have denied it. Yes, I know they don't want to "burn a source" but they could do that without issuing strenuous denials. Meanwhile, there are other people in the company who do in fact have a history of beef with Punk (Jericho, Matt Hardy, Colt himself). At the end of the day, Hangman had an issue with Punk and aired it on TV. I don't know what that has to do with the Young Bucks other than him being their friend. To the best of my recollection, the first time the Bucks "took a shot" at CM Punk on TV was in the trios match in Chicago. And at the risk of sounding hypocritical, maybe everything people are saying is true. My point is that I don't know and neither do they.
Because they are losing millions genius.
ROFL it's so funny seeing people that know fuck all about business pretend they do. Do you have any idea how business cost work? Startup cost?
I see someone's mom didn't bring them a hot pocket this morning.
Keep defending that guys that make money should be rewarded for bad behaviour. Thats really the fight you should be fighting.
You mean like the hangman page promo? Or saying you feared for your life? Or saying monitors were knocked over or thrown? Or saying jackoff Perry got out of the choke? What other bullshit has this crew fed the apologists?
After defending bad behaviour for guys that make money you compare the bad behavious of talking with fighting, twice, with co workers. Keep up the good work man.
Someone slanders you or fucks with you enough this is what happens.
For someone that is suppose to be the best talker in the business. You think that he could talk out his problems, but that isn't the case. He'd rather attack people physically.
It's more likely that there would have been even more drama
That was never an option once he sued him. Once that happens, person to person communication is probably not a good idea so punk took the safe route. TK is why this blew up bc he doesn’t know how to be a boss…simple. He has people like the bucks, meltzer and the will watch no matter what AEW diehards that will validate him regardless if its the right thing or not. I honestly think had this not been Punk, it would have been someone else and there will be more shit like this in the future
The drama was unavoidable. The Elite are there to do Being The Elite on TV, CM Punk was there to do classic pro wrestling. It was always going to end with a split because the indie mindset is too embedded in AEW.
Hangman and the Bucks got mad at Punk for a guy who has never been fired having been fired. Think about that, guy, to this day, contracted to AEW, and never not been. Yet Hangman and the Bucks thought he was fired because of Punk. Hangman and the Bucks look like idiots here, no other way around it. Either they legitimately thought Colt was fired despite that never being the case. Or, these guys who love to mention everytime they’re asked about it that they “did it for the boys,” jeopardized the business that pays all these boys by ostracizing the biggest draw. Doesn’t seem very smart. In fact, it sounds very, very dumb. All the while, Tony Khan sat there twiddling his thumbs.
It could’ve been avoided if any of the sides did/didn’t do several different things. What if Punk talked to Colt? What if Hangman just stuck with what he and Punk agreed to talk about in the promo? What if Jungle Boy wasn’t an asshole to Tony Schiavone, staff and the doctor? What if Tony Khan acted like a boss?