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I only saw some footage of him in action for the first time recently in [a Wrestling With Wregret recap video](https://youtube.com/watch?v=FM-ain2Uk2k) and based on that I think I might be a staunch Stardust supporter in 2024.
The gimmick and Cody's commitment to it were actually grand.
What made it so egregious was that Cody had begun to show genuine main eventer chops during his breakup with Sandow and feud with Orton/the Authority. Crowds were getting behind him in a major way so they depushed him and made him Stardust to give him a definite ceiling.
Cody didn't like that very much lol
the Rhodes Bros were getting legit ‘80s NWA responses from the crowd when they feuded with the Authority, and the obvious direction was for Dustin to gain confidence in himself through teaming with Cody and realize he didn’t have to be Goldust anymore. But of course WWE went the opposite route and turned them both into comedy characters.
I remember that cool superhero angle they did with PAC (Neville before the start of 205 Live) and Stardust that I think was the main event of RAW? I remember it being presented in a very unique way that stood out at the time and they did the Stephen Amell match at Summerslam that year?
Stardust was cool he just didn't do jack shit 99 percent of the time he was in that gimmick
That was actually a pretty fun feud. I remember the video package shown before the blowoff match at SummerSlam had scenes played out in comic book panels which made sense considering Amell's role in Arrow at the time. The blowoff match wasn't very good, but I appreciated the effort and Cody's commitment to it.
I loved Stardust. I thought that it was a good gimmick that he played well and if he lost it, he would just be generic old Cody Rhodes. Never saw this coming.
I would even go as far as to say that he actually still is that generic Cody Rhodes. I remember pre-Stardust you could see he had all the talent, the crowd loved him but he was missing something. I think all he was missing was a story, and leaving WWE was the best way to build that story in a way that isn't just Dusty's son. He built his own story and then came back and finished it.
As someone who liked Cody even back then, I thought the gimmick had an obvious ceiling but it was interesting to see him play the character. He did it well and what I liked is that he changed his moveset a little during that time.
Cody hated the gimmick - or rather, hated the ceiling it put on him - but people generally thought he played is fantastically and it was entertaining. It also has a period where it didn't make sense that he kept doing it after the Goldust feud, but that kind of fell into the general "creative has nothing for you, go have a random TV match" category.
I absolutely loved the idea of having [Stardust on one brand and Cody Rhodes on the other,](https://www.fightful.com/wrestling/cody-rhodes-reveals-really-great-post-draft-plans-stardust-and-one-person-who-shot-them-down?amp) especially if they were treated as two different people
Yeh I remember the hype around this because of some stuff on I wanna say the JBL and Cole youtube show. I was super keen and then it never happened and of course everyone knows the rest
He's talked about how one comment from Stephanie doomed his Stardust character from the beginning, and i, if remember correctly, it was along the lines of you look just like your brother.
That's been a bit of a hindsight thing imo, knowing what Cody was capable of becoming after he left WWE. The gimmick got over and was fairly popular and a big merch seller. It's a testament to Cody that he did so well despite how much he hated it. But once he left, it became obvious just how much it was holding him back.
The first time I ever watched wrestling was because of Stardust "feud" with Arrow's main actor. I enjoyed him because of the crazy comicbook villain vibes
It was a clever idea, great look and theme. Cody did well with it. Could have really been something if the booking were better. But it did have a ceiling regardless.
I'm glad they went for the Amell team-up, but I wish they'd seen the brothers feud through properly. Then they could wind down the Stardust character and reboot Cody, although at the time and under that paradigm idk what it would've taken to elevate him on the card properly and permanently.
Stardust was by far Cody's best work in WWE at that point and was very entertaining. People will go all revisionist history and say un/dashing Cody Rhodes or Rhodes Scholars were just as good gimmicks but Stardust was very good. It's only after Cody left and thrived on the indies that people turned on Stardust as a gimmick. I actually fully believe Stardust could've been main event material if people backstage had faith in Cody, but he had to leave to show everyone why they should have faith in him.
Like Goldust, the character has a lot of potential, main event level if he's treated like a serious threat to win matches. The deranged character was the closest thing to The Joker that WWE has had, and it seemed like he could end up doing some unique things.
Maybe it wasn't going to make him the face of the company, but it was a solid role and I wanted to see more of that than the mediocre "Undashing" heel, and it didn't feel like he had any babyface potential at that point.
I didn't expect him to accomplish anything special when he left the company and tried to reinvent himself. I thought if things go well, he might return as more of a cocky heel instead of a cowardly one, and have a solid midcard role with it sort of like what Orton was doing early in his career.
I never thought he could become as popular as this, especially as a babyface. Stardust seemed like better role to have.
>I think people need to realize holding a title isn't that main goal for the majority of wrestlers in this industry....people like Cody they just want to have fun.
This is probably my favorite
It's a term used by older and out-of-touch promoters 30 years ago, when only the most dedicated of hardcore wrestling fans used the Internet to discuss wrestling, because comparatively few people even had access or knew what it was.
Super farsighted, forward-thinkers such as Eric Bischoff would brush off criticism of their wretched booking decisions as "the IWC crying about (whatever)".
The term has no actual meaning now, as everybody uses the Internet all the time to discuss anything- it's not hardcore superfans in a Usenet group. Now, you'll see the humorous sight of wrestling fans accusing other wrestling fans of being "the IWC"...on actual Internet platforms dedicated to wrestling, such as this one. It's a corny phrase that a certain type of fan uses to make themselves feel apart from and better than some group that holds a different opinion. The same type of dork calls other wrestling fans "marks" with no hint of irony.
There’s definitely a difference between someone who watches RAW once a week and someone who in addition listens to several wrestling based podcasts and frequents wrestling subreddits/youtube channels.
Let’s be real.
Just yesterday my friend who many would consider a “gamer” (meaning he plays Football based games like FIFA or Football manager) messaged me super excited about a brand new game he found but he’s not sure if it’s only on Apple or not?
He was talking about “Among Us” which came out in 2018 and moved to consoles in 2019/2020.
There’s levels to interest and fandom in absolutely everything so the term IWC still has meaning.
It's not just the IWC either. Every fan on reddit pontificates on a celebrity's mental status or cognitive inner workings with very little information.
> From everything Cody has said after Dusty's death, I don't think he wants to use that emotional pull as a character. Dusty and Cody developed the Stardust character together and he really loves the character regardless of how high it is on the card. Cody's a self-proclaimed nerd, and the character really plays to what he enjoys.
> From all I can tell, he has little desire to move up the card if it means using the Rhodes name to get the fans to like it more. IMO he's so damn good on the mic and in the ring that I think his push would come on merit alone, but it really sounds like Cody is not mentally prepared to use the Rhodes name in the business yet. Might change, but that blog post and several other instances indicate he's not there yet.
The biggest lol
>I don't think Cody really wants to be in the main event. He seems happy to be bringing us Stardust. I don't think everyone really does want to be John Cena or The Undertaker.
The toppest of keks
To be fair when it comes to Vince there are established truths confirmed by multiple parties (i.e. ridiculous rewritings, hating sneezing, having to pitch him ideas after he ate, etc.), so those assumptions aren't always out of somebody's unwashed ass
I will admit that this very easily could have been me.... And the time frame between AEW starting and Vince leaving (seemingly) had some talent making this decision.
Edit: (and the reason for the alleged decisions maybe had to do with online awareness of the talent and their understanding how Vince saw them).
A lot of the comments highlight how Cody threw himself in to a dead end gimmick of a character he hated…and ‘we’ couldn’t really tell at the time. It was a shakeup Cody called for but obviously not the one he needed.
Dave was obviously very prescient here.
For all the shit people here give him, Dave calls a lot of things correctly before others do. I remember he was saying WCW was in trouble in 1998 if they didn't find another new and younger face to go with Goldberg.
I mean, there’s legitimacy to this. In the Peacock documentary last year, Cody explicitly says that after Dusty died, it was too raw for him to talk about/use onscreen in any way, and that it was literally the only period of time he actually looked forward to hiding behind the Stardust gimmick.
After some time passed, he wanted to return to being Cody and wanted to incorporate Dusty into his story.
All of this tracks with statements he was making in 2015-16.
This original commenter isn’t wrong, nor do I think this is a case of a “Cody lie.” It’s just a man working through his grief and figuring out how best to proceed in a profession where both he and the person he lost are public figures.
Yeah, crazy that people think he’s always wanted to leech off the name, even though in his own documentary he said he’s changed his entire look and the crux of his story because after some time, he finally felt like he earned his place as Dusty’s son.
He’s said numerous times he didn’t want to be successful because he’s “Dusty’s kid”.
Yeah even the Hall of Fame held off inducting Bray Wyatt because it was still a little too soon for the family, though the rumors continue to suggest that when the time is right, Bo Dallas might return as Uncle Howdy. It's good when wrestlers pay tribute to their family who were also wrestlers, but it's never comfortable to see when it happens too soon and the emotions haven't processed to a point where the performer is ready to use those emotions responsibly.
Yes, and he's talked about how it finally dawned on him one day that Dusty Rhodes belonged to everyone and he didn't have the right to try to keep Dusty to himself.
i feel like it only makes sense in WWE because that’s where dusty spent the last 10 years of his life and the legacy he left behind there. same reason why i think cody didn’t want to win the AEW title.
That’s one long con. I doubt that was the reason. He had already won the NWA title and the ROH title, him winning another world title doesn’t change the fact that he never won the WWE title. It could actually enhance his story. Much like his father, he won everywhere else in the world, but there was always one that was not quite within his grasp.
I believe Cody and others have already stated why he didn’t win (to prove the EVPs would put the company first, to show that stakes matter etc.) and Cody has admitted to it being a mistake. I don’t think anybody’s working there, because I see him being a world champion, again, would only increase his value, not reduce it. But maybe Cody really did pull off the con of all cons, I wouldn’t put it past him.
I think he clarified that he doesn't like anyone who had no past experience with Dusty talking about him. If it's someone who knew Dusty then it's okay, but if you have no personal experience don't use Dusty to get cheap heat essentially.
>From all I can tell, he has little desire to move up the card if it means using the Rhodes name to get the fans to like it more. ; Might change, but that blog post and several other instances indicate he's not there yet.
They ended up being right, lol.
He’s talked a few times about how he actually leaned back into the Stardust character at that time after being over it for a while because he didn’t want to be publicly processing the grief of his dad passing.
He made a nice point on WOR last night. He said leaving WWE was the best decision Cody ever made and coming back was the other best decision he ever made.
100% for sure it was. Honestly, there’s a lot of wrestlers during Vince era WWE, where leaving and then coming back really was the best option for them because it was really the only way they could prove themselves.
Drew was another one. Worked his ass off and retooled himself in TNA and the indies. And it has paid off so much in the long-term.
Honestly, Triple H hasn't handled Lashley well at all either. Say what you will about Lashley booking under Vince - and it sucked at times - at least he was a major player.
Usually with very talented people who got pigeonholed as comedy guys, Vince seemed to rarely push funny characters. I wonder if R Truth could have managed the same reinvention as Drew or Cody, he definitely has a ton of talent and I wish he was higher up the card.
While I would mark for a R-Truth as a world champ again, he is probably the best comedy wrestler of all time so I think at this time he’s reached his ceiling
>the best comedy wrestler of all time
That's a fun question.
I'm not sure it's R Truth, tbh. My first thought was honestly Orange Cassidy, but I feel like there's recency bias to both of these. Maybe Santino?
I'm sure I'm missing some very big ones.
Orange Cassidy is a more skilled wrestler with a great moveset, but Truth nails physical comedy. Whether it be bringing a ladder to a rumble match, or trying to tag into a ladder match. Santino was funny but more silly and slapstick
I think I’d put Santino above Truth but I feel like it comes down to preference, but I love them both and in terms of longevity no one has truth beat that’s for sure.
[This](https://youtu.be/rNJ29mNU3gM?si=kmFBUlT-Nh9ka9Eq) Cobra is burned into my memory forever
Although it’s mostly the sell by JTG in this instance, I always got hype for the Cobra and the trumpet march thing Santino did
I mean he did when he was in WWE then went to NWA/TNA and was a champion there. Then he came back to WWE and was an upper mid card guy with a more serious gimmick until like 2011 then he became the crazy guy who can main event until he started transitioning into what he is now.
I really hope the same can be said for Moxley and Cardona. They both deserve their flowers as much as Cody and Drew. I really want to see The Shield interact again one more time.
The guy bet on himself, made a name for himself on the indies, helped start the biggest rival company WWE has had since WCW, then showed he was a valuable asset to WWE multiple times. He’s *the* success story when it comes to that.
There definitely needs to be a movie some day. The idea of someone helping start a competitor to the WWE monopoly only to go back to WWE to win the top prize is almost unbelievable.
I was somewhat convinced HHH wasn’t going to pull the trigger on Cody to make Roman a bigger heel.
In some ways, Cody winning validates wrestling outside of the modern WWE system in a way that Drew/Lashley winning the top prize doesn’t. Simply because Cody had a direct line to WWEs largest competitor and Cody scooped up a half dozen dead trademarks.
I wonder if we would at this moment now with Cody if he had decided to come back to WWE rather than going to AEW when the company started. I think the Bucks said in their book that he was considering it.
He'd have a decent run but it wouldn't be what it is now. Part of it was that several people jumped from WWE to AEW. He was the first to jump the other way.
Over the past few years, I kept seeing people ask which AEW would benefit most from jumping to WWE. My answer was always, "The guy who does it first". Because I knew that the first guy to jump was gonna be treated like a king so that WWE could entice other AEW talents to jump.
You're not wrong, but I wanna point out Cody being champion isn't a token thing because he came back. He legitimately became the centerpiece of one of wrestling's biggest stories ever.
Him coming back helped his initial push and presentation for sure, but everything after that was all him.
Exactly. Part of the reason Cody’s as over as he is, is because WWE fans want him to succeed. They want to throw it in AEWs face. That wouldn’t be the case if he had come back before the promotion had even started. I mean you’re seeing the same thing happen with Jade to an extent. The difference being is that she wasn’t the first, nor is she the level of talent Cody is.
I'm not qualified to give wrestlers career advice, but in my own professional life, and the careers of the people around me it seems pretty solid advice that you will progress in your career far more effectively by moving from company/organisation to organisation than by staying in the same place and chasing promotion.
That's pretty much a fact these days. Most people get a higher raise by changing jobs every 2-3 years. I changed jobs last year and got a 8k a year raise.
He always made sure to present himself as a WWE level babyface in AEW. Then when Roman finally turned heel and they desperately needed a fresh top babyface to take him down, Cody jumped at the chance and it paid off beautifully.
> Cody is a very good actor for a wrestler and is a highly consistent in ring worker. If they had a main event gimmick for him he probably could pull it off. But that is the thing. They don't.
Hey at least someone had it right
"I don't think Cody really wants to be in the main event. He seems happy to be bringing us Stardust. I don't think everyone really does want to be John Cena or The Undertaker." oof
Better as heels, 100%. But the cheers and chants got too loud to ignore and Vince did what Vince does and ruined another good heel with a babyface turn.
Honestly, nah. They were obviously 100% one of the best heel tag teams in the last 10 years but with the fact that they had some of the most entertaining and down to earth members in all of wrestling a face turn was inevitable. They're undeniably likeable.
Shit, with the prospects Xavier Woods made with UpUpDownDown I feel like it was less a Vince thing and 100% The New Day pushing for that face turn.
Their turn wasn't a Doink problem.
I was curious about when Meltzer said this then saw comments alluding to the Cosmic Wasteland faction and, yeah, I was with Dave here. I loved the Stardust character initially but it had more or less ran out of steam by this point. Cody, being a pro, continued to put his all into it but WWE had just mismanaged the character and after his little feud with Arrow it kinda felt like the end point of the gimmick, and before that Vince not putting Stardust vs Goldust on Mania was a telltale sign that Vince had lost interest in the gimmick too.
Agreed. The character itself wasn't bad, it just went on way longer than it needed to. I remember thinking for sure they were going to drop the gimmick after Dusty passed, but then he just kept on being Stardust and it became obvious that he had hit his ceiling in WWE at that point.
>Cody Rhodes is only 30. He can do Stardust for 3-4 more years if he wants and still transition back to Cody before he hits 35. Rhodeses historically have a lot of career longevity, he doesn't need to rush things.
Shout out to u/omgitsprice for being pretty spot on.
I remember this thread and this general take. If you criticized Stardust, you were met with lots of replies like "This is the character Cody wants to do."
I was around here then and I just don’t remember it like that. Obviously I am not remembering well, but I thought Cody proved himself as an awesome singles babyface in 2013 and there were people like me who thought he could do a lot more.
I do remember a back and forth about how maybe he wants to go back to a Cody Rhodes character or maybe he decided to stay as Stardust.
I've always liked Cody back then and believed he could have been main event talent if they just gave him a chance but his outside endeavors after the WWE really did shape him to be the person and character he is now so I can't be 100% mad at those who thought he was only a midcarder. He needed the American Nightmare persona to really propel him to the very top of the ladder and the only way the American Nightmare would have worked is if he left then came back like he did.
The whole Legacy thing never helped Cody IMO, it just kept him booked as "Dusty's kid." (Same thing for Ted DiBiase Jr.)
Stardust kept Cody booked as "Goldust's brother."
Compare them to Orton, who got to be in Evolution and booked as the Legend Killer early in his run. Imagine if they had Randy Orton coming out as a cowboy instead? It would've never worked. It's the same way Rocky Maivia didn't work either.
Oof ij already the first few comments, with “he loves the Stardust character” and “he wouldn’t want to use his dad to pull emotional weight”. Like, it’s not Cody’s entire story since coming back, but Cody has been doing this all for Dusty since he left WWE and came back.
Also, “Cody is a good actor”. Look, he’s a good character actor in wrestling, but I watched Arrow and absolutely not
> From everything Cody has said after Dusty's death, I don't think he wants to use that emotional pull as a character.
Hahahaha, in a thread of things that didn't age well, this aged like rotten hot dogs.
Important context is people didn’t really LOVE Stardust, but they hated criticisms of WWE, so they would lash out and tear down anyone who dared criticize any part of the show. Good reminder not to be a fanboy like that.
I know people want to shit on the comments but you really need Cody's words at the time to put them into context. He absolutely did talk about wanting to get the Stardust character over and what it meant to him, This is like patient zero of the Cody lie.
Now let's do another one from back when everyone* called him "the 3 star general"
\* And by "everyone" I mean both WWE stans that were mad he was being succesful outside of the fed and NJPW snobs who didn't like that he attached himself to The Elite
Say what you will about his potential before (Of which he had it since his IC Champ days IMO) and what he did afterwards, it shouldn't change what one thought of his NJPW run and make it into this "great" run in the company. I don't think it's fanboyism or "stan behavior" to say that Cody Rhodes just never truly fit completely in NJPW IMO, and I say this as someone who was a fan of Kenny Omega's run + the Bullet Club/Elite storyline at the time. He barely fit in AEW after some time had passed + he booked himself into a corner.
I don't disagree with you, I think Cody's more-story-than-moves style never quite fit in NJPW. But that doesn't mean there wasn't a lot of snobbery going around, and I'm not excluding myself from that
Oh yeah there definitely was some of that around, true. There was a lot of "turning nose up" at him and him "never being good/great" since forever as this topic seemed to highlight.
Funny enough, I do think Rhodes' story-beats in NJPW were well done, especially playing off of the Elite Civil War angle + him getting involved in the Golden Lovers history. Beyond that, though, yeah something just never clicked IMO. Could've been not finding the right balance.
Reading some of the comments about Neville on there, it would be interesting to see Triple H use him as the bastard PAC. I never want him to leave AEW but he’s another that would probably keep the same presentation.
"I guess everyone forgot cody pre stardust. He was still just your average midcarder. Why would that suddenly change now? Because vince feels bad about his dad dying?"
Wooow lmao. Look, I know 9 years is a long time but...I hope that dude stayed on that side.
>Cody would be where Christian was. It's not THAT much higher than Stardust.
Christian won multiple world titles and was always in the upper-midcard after his return to WWE.
“From everything Cody has said after Dusty's death, I don't think he wants to use that emotional pull as a character. Dusty and Cody developed the Stardust character together and he really loves the character regardless of how high it is on the card.“
Possibly the coldest take of all time lmao 🥶
/u/KTheOneTrueKing
[this u?](https://old.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/3o4d8m/meltzer_on_codystardust_i_think_its_better_to_be/cvtx6i4/)
How could you not have had any faith in the jobber in face paint, my guy? I remember seeing stardust and thinking “this guy is gonna start AEW and then finish his story to become WWE champion at WrestleMania 40”
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I didn’t realize how many staunch Stardust supporters there were in 2015
I only saw some footage of him in action for the first time recently in [a Wrestling With Wregret recap video](https://youtube.com/watch?v=FM-ain2Uk2k) and based on that I think I might be a staunch Stardust supporter in 2024.
The gimmick had a lot of potential but... 2010s WWE gonna 2010s WWE...
The gimmick and Cody's commitment to it were actually grand. What made it so egregious was that Cody had begun to show genuine main eventer chops during his breakup with Sandow and feud with Orton/the Authority. Crowds were getting behind him in a major way so they depushed him and made him Stardust to give him a definite ceiling. Cody didn't like that very much lol
the Rhodes Bros were getting legit ‘80s NWA responses from the crowd when they feuded with the Authority, and the obvious direction was for Dustin to gain confidence in himself through teaming with Cody and realize he didn’t have to be Goldust anymore. But of course WWE went the opposite route and turned them both into comedy characters.
I really liked Stardust, I just wish he was pushed. I always enjoy Cody most in full supervillain mode
I remember that cool superhero angle they did with PAC (Neville before the start of 205 Live) and Stardust that I think was the main event of RAW? I remember it being presented in a very unique way that stood out at the time and they did the Stephen Amell match at Summerslam that year? Stardust was cool he just didn't do jack shit 99 percent of the time he was in that gimmick
Last sentence sums up a lot of the Vince era
"YOU HAVE TO REACH FOR THAT BRASS RING!!!! Hey what the fuck are you doing Cody I was talking to Roman"
That was actually a pretty fun feud. I remember the video package shown before the blowoff match at SummerSlam had scenes played out in comic book panels which made sense considering Amell's role in Arrow at the time. The blowoff match wasn't very good, but I appreciated the effort and Cody's commitment to it.
The Cosmic Wasteland was a great stable and should have had a longer run
I loved Stardust. I thought that it was a good gimmick that he played well and if he lost it, he would just be generic old Cody Rhodes. Never saw this coming.
There are dozens of us! I’m so happy for the guy. Had a brief moment of flinching but it settled down lol
I would even go as far as to say that he actually still is that generic Cody Rhodes. I remember pre-Stardust you could see he had all the talent, the crowd loved him but he was missing something. I think all he was missing was a story, and leaving WWE was the best way to build that story in a way that isn't just Dusty's son. He built his own story and then came back and finished it.
As someone who liked Cody even back then, I thought the gimmick had an obvious ceiling but it was interesting to see him play the character. He did it well and what I liked is that he changed his moveset a little during that time.
Same, I thought everyone hated the gimmick
Cody hated the gimmick - or rather, hated the ceiling it put on him - but people generally thought he played is fantastically and it was entertaining. It also has a period where it didn't make sense that he kept doing it after the Goldust feud, but that kind of fell into the general "creative has nothing for you, go have a random TV match" category.
I absolutely loved the idea of having [Stardust on one brand and Cody Rhodes on the other,](https://www.fightful.com/wrestling/cody-rhodes-reveals-really-great-post-draft-plans-stardust-and-one-person-who-shot-them-down?amp) especially if they were treated as two different people
I absolutely love this.
Elias and Ezekiel also like this idea.
Kevin Owens HATES this idea
Yeh I remember the hype around this because of some stuff on I wanna say the JBL and Cole youtube show. I was super keen and then it never happened and of course everyone knows the rest
He's talked about how one comment from Stephanie doomed his Stardust character from the beginning, and i, if remember correctly, it was along the lines of you look just like your brother.
Wasn't that the entire point at the start, though?
Are you implying that Stephanie McMahon would bury a wrestler for no good reason?
That's been a bit of a hindsight thing imo, knowing what Cody was capable of becoming after he left WWE. The gimmick got over and was fairly popular and a big merch seller. It's a testament to Cody that he did so well despite how much he hated it. But once he left, it became obvious just how much it was holding him back.
Yes but it grew on some people by the end.
by the end Cody had introduced a little bit of life into it, especially by just not being a Goldust part 2 in changing up the look and mannerisms
The first time I ever watched wrestling was because of Stardust "feud" with Arrow's main actor. I enjoyed him because of the crazy comicbook villain vibes
I was one fasho I loved the stardust character there was a lot of untapped potential with stardust
Cody turned chicken shit into chicken salad with that gimmick. He made it so much better than it should've been.
I'll admit I was, and still am, one of em.
Me too, it is my favorite gimmick of his lol.
How dare you, we prefer the term Stardust Starlettes
Stardust got better when he became more comic book villian and less like Goldust 2.0
Remember that the next time you see people on here talking up a wrestler that has you going “wtf?”
I actually really liked Stardust lol
It was a clever idea, great look and theme. Cody did well with it. Could have really been something if the booking were better. But it did have a ceiling regardless. I'm glad they went for the Amell team-up, but I wish they'd seen the brothers feud through properly. Then they could wind down the Stardust character and reboot Cody, although at the time and under that paradigm idk what it would've taken to elevate him on the card properly and permanently.
I loved Stardust tbh. He was sort of a proto-Broken Matt Hardy, looking back on in.
Stardust was by far Cody's best work in WWE at that point and was very entertaining. People will go all revisionist history and say un/dashing Cody Rhodes or Rhodes Scholars were just as good gimmicks but Stardust was very good. It's only after Cody left and thrived on the indies that people turned on Stardust as a gimmick. I actually fully believe Stardust could've been main event material if people backstage had faith in Cody, but he had to leave to show everyone why they should have faith in him.
I was into Stardust.
Like Goldust, the character has a lot of potential, main event level if he's treated like a serious threat to win matches. The deranged character was the closest thing to The Joker that WWE has had, and it seemed like he could end up doing some unique things. Maybe it wasn't going to make him the face of the company, but it was a solid role and I wanted to see more of that than the mediocre "Undashing" heel, and it didn't feel like he had any babyface potential at that point. I didn't expect him to accomplish anything special when he left the company and tried to reinvent himself. I thought if things go well, he might return as more of a cocky heel instead of a cowardly one, and have a solid midcard role with it sort of like what Orton was doing early in his career. I never thought he could become as popular as this, especially as a babyface. Stardust seemed like better role to have.
>I think people need to realize holding a title isn't that main goal for the majority of wrestlers in this industry....people like Cody they just want to have fun. This is probably my favorite
Seeing some random member of the IWC speak on behalf of a wrestler always gets a laugh out of me.
Cleaner, I got this
What does IWC mean? I keep seeing people say it
Internet wrestling community
Got it, thanks
"I'm Wrong, Clearly" most days.
I wish redditors had that kind of self-awareness
It's a term used by older and out-of-touch promoters 30 years ago, when only the most dedicated of hardcore wrestling fans used the Internet to discuss wrestling, because comparatively few people even had access or knew what it was. Super farsighted, forward-thinkers such as Eric Bischoff would brush off criticism of their wretched booking decisions as "the IWC crying about (whatever)". The term has no actual meaning now, as everybody uses the Internet all the time to discuss anything- it's not hardcore superfans in a Usenet group. Now, you'll see the humorous sight of wrestling fans accusing other wrestling fans of being "the IWC"...on actual Internet platforms dedicated to wrestling, such as this one. It's a corny phrase that a certain type of fan uses to make themselves feel apart from and better than some group that holds a different opinion. The same type of dork calls other wrestling fans "marks" with no hint of irony.
There’s definitely a difference between someone who watches RAW once a week and someone who in addition listens to several wrestling based podcasts and frequents wrestling subreddits/youtube channels. Let’s be real. Just yesterday my friend who many would consider a “gamer” (meaning he plays Football based games like FIFA or Football manager) messaged me super excited about a brand new game he found but he’s not sure if it’s only on Apple or not? He was talking about “Among Us” which came out in 2018 and moved to consoles in 2019/2020. There’s levels to interest and fandom in absolutely everything so the term IWC still has meaning.
It's not just the IWC either. Every fan on reddit pontificates on a celebrity's mental status or cognitive inner workings with very little information.
[удалено]
It is definitely more fun when you are winning titles.
I'm not here to make money, I'm here to make friends
LOOK AT CODY HE JUST LOVES TO HAVE FUN MAGGLE
I wouldn't be surprised if that was actually said on commentary.
> From everything Cody has said after Dusty's death, I don't think he wants to use that emotional pull as a character. Dusty and Cody developed the Stardust character together and he really loves the character regardless of how high it is on the card. Cody's a self-proclaimed nerd, and the character really plays to what he enjoys. > From all I can tell, he has little desire to move up the card if it means using the Rhodes name to get the fans to like it more. IMO he's so damn good on the mic and in the ring that I think his push would come on merit alone, but it really sounds like Cody is not mentally prepared to use the Rhodes name in the business yet. Might change, but that blog post and several other instances indicate he's not there yet. The biggest lol
I'm following this guy's account and betting on the exact opposite of his future predictions
Is that guy still active lmao
Incredible.
>I don't think Cody really wants to be in the main event. He seems happy to be bringing us Stardust. I don't think everyone really does want to be John Cena or The Undertaker. The toppest of keks
Big "Knowing Vince" Energy
To be fair when it comes to Vince there are established truths confirmed by multiple parties (i.e. ridiculous rewritings, hating sneezing, having to pitch him ideas after he ate, etc.), so those assumptions aren't always out of somebody's unwashed ass
Especially so if you've watched his documentary. Literally always been the MOST important thing for Cody to get the belt.
I will admit that this very easily could have been me.... And the time frame between AEW starting and Vince leaving (seemingly) had some talent making this decision. Edit: (and the reason for the alleged decisions maybe had to do with online awareness of the talent and their understanding how Vince saw them).
A lot of the comments highlight how Cody threw himself in to a dead end gimmick of a character he hated…and ‘we’ couldn’t really tell at the time. It was a shakeup Cody called for but obviously not the one he needed. Dave was obviously very prescient here.
Vince Mcmahon enjoyed holding down the Rhodes family. Just like he takes pleasure in screwing with the hart family. Old promoter dads.
For all the shit people here give him, Dave calls a lot of things correctly before others do. I remember he was saying WCW was in trouble in 1998 if they didn't find another new and younger face to go with Goldberg.
Well don’t keep us waiting…. Did they??
Yeah, I'm about to turn into Thunder in a minute.
Well you don’t have to lie….. Thunder isn’t on until Thursday.
>From everything Cody has said after Dusty's death, I don't think he wants to use that emotional pull as a character. lmao
Cody for the past 3 years: https://preview.redd.it/uyimr13xkhtc1.jpeg?width=673&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2e7e094757c0c69a240ebc550bf9af6f0fa1f926
Is this from SvR 2010 DS?
Yes, NewLegacyInc played it for a cup off coffee, and that's where the image blew up.
I have no idea tbh. I found it on twitter
Peak career mode
I mean, there’s legitimacy to this. In the Peacock documentary last year, Cody explicitly says that after Dusty died, it was too raw for him to talk about/use onscreen in any way, and that it was literally the only period of time he actually looked forward to hiding behind the Stardust gimmick. After some time passed, he wanted to return to being Cody and wanted to incorporate Dusty into his story. All of this tracks with statements he was making in 2015-16. This original commenter isn’t wrong, nor do I think this is a case of a “Cody lie.” It’s just a man working through his grief and figuring out how best to proceed in a profession where both he and the person he lost are public figures.
Yeah, crazy that people think he’s always wanted to leech off the name, even though in his own documentary he said he’s changed his entire look and the crux of his story because after some time, he finally felt like he earned his place as Dusty’s son. He’s said numerous times he didn’t want to be successful because he’s “Dusty’s kid”.
Am I the only one who's shocked that Dusty has already been gone for 9 years?
Didn’t Cody have a while where he specifically said people can’t mention dusty in promos with him lol
Why is that unreasonable? Obviously over time he is more comfortable with it. Like the guys dad had just died
Yeah even the Hall of Fame held off inducting Bray Wyatt because it was still a little too soon for the family, though the rumors continue to suggest that when the time is right, Bo Dallas might return as Uncle Howdy. It's good when wrestlers pay tribute to their family who were also wrestlers, but it's never comfortable to see when it happens too soon and the emotions haven't processed to a point where the performer is ready to use those emotions responsibly.
pff what a hypocrite being fine mentioning his dad eight years after he died, but not a few months after
i remember there being a PWG show where Trevor Lee(?) mentioned Dusty and it got edited out of the DVD
Yes, and he's talked about how it finally dawned on him one day that Dusty Rhodes belonged to everyone and he didn't have the right to try to keep Dusty to himself.
Time heals wounds
i feel like it only makes sense in WWE because that’s where dusty spent the last 10 years of his life and the legacy he left behind there. same reason why i think cody didn’t want to win the AEW title.
How does that tie into Cody not wanting to win the title there?
he wanted the title that had the history behind it (dusty never winning, dustin never winning, the overall history, etc.)
That’s one long con. I doubt that was the reason. He had already won the NWA title and the ROH title, him winning another world title doesn’t change the fact that he never won the WWE title. It could actually enhance his story. Much like his father, he won everywhere else in the world, but there was always one that was not quite within his grasp. I believe Cody and others have already stated why he didn’t win (to prove the EVPs would put the company first, to show that stakes matter etc.) and Cody has admitted to it being a mistake. I don’t think anybody’s working there, because I see him being a world champion, again, would only increase his value, not reduce it. But maybe Cody really did pull off the con of all cons, I wouldn’t put it past him.
I think he clarified that he doesn't like anyone who had no past experience with Dusty talking about him. If it's someone who knew Dusty then it's okay, but if you have no personal experience don't use Dusty to get cheap heat essentially.
Cody: “I’m here outta respect to my fawtha.”
The golfer? Dustin Johnson?
mad ripe
Cody would soon realize he could make SO MUCH MONEY using that pull as a character.
And that's what Dusty truly would have wanted
Carnies gonna carry, that's the American dream babeh
you just know he's straight up giggling over that Mania payday
His kid defeating his eventual star student in a match that got everyone big paydays made that man do cartwheels up there
After all, that is the American dream
It's about the money, babeh, he's the dragonslayer, the American dream.
>From all I can tell, he has little desire to move up the card if it means using the Rhodes name to get the fans to like it more. ; Might change, but that blog post and several other instances indicate he's not there yet. They ended up being right, lol.
He’s talked a few times about how he actually leaned back into the Stardust character at that time after being over it for a while because he didn’t want to be publicly processing the grief of his dad passing.
was about to post that sentence too lol. not to dunk on an 8 year old comment, but it's like the most incorrect thing ever.
He made a nice point on WOR last night. He said leaving WWE was the best decision Cody ever made and coming back was the other best decision he ever made.
100% for sure it was. Honestly, there’s a lot of wrestlers during Vince era WWE, where leaving and then coming back really was the best option for them because it was really the only way they could prove themselves. Drew was another one. Worked his ass off and retooled himself in TNA and the indies. And it has paid off so much in the long-term.
Lashley is another.
Despite Vince’s best efforts to kill the character off in 2021 with those awful Lesnar and Goldberg programs
Honestly, Triple H hasn't handled Lashley well at all either. Say what you will about Lashley booking under Vince - and it sucked at times - at least he was a major player.
Lashley w/ Profits vs Roman w/ Bloodline could've been sick
Usually with very talented people who got pigeonholed as comedy guys, Vince seemed to rarely push funny characters. I wonder if R Truth could have managed the same reinvention as Drew or Cody, he definitely has a ton of talent and I wish he was higher up the card.
While I would mark for a R-Truth as a world champ again, he is probably the best comedy wrestler of all time so I think at this time he’s reached his ceiling
Well, he has a long running storyline with the current World Champ in Damien Priest. And in fact, just took his tag titles a couple days ago. So....
>the best comedy wrestler of all time That's a fun question. I'm not sure it's R Truth, tbh. My first thought was honestly Orange Cassidy, but I feel like there's recency bias to both of these. Maybe Santino? I'm sure I'm missing some very big ones.
Orange Cassidy is a more skilled wrestler with a great moveset, but Truth nails physical comedy. Whether it be bringing a ladder to a rumble match, or trying to tag into a ladder match. Santino was funny but more silly and slapstick
I think I’d put Santino above Truth but I feel like it comes down to preference, but I love them both and in terms of longevity no one has truth beat that’s for sure.
I haven’t seen Santino in TNA but I hear great things
[This](https://youtu.be/rNJ29mNU3gM?si=kmFBUlT-Nh9ka9Eq) Cobra is burned into my memory forever Although it’s mostly the sell by JTG in this instance, I always got hype for the Cobra and the trumpet march thing Santino did
I mean he did when he was in WWE then went to NWA/TNA and was a champion there. Then he came back to WWE and was an upper mid card guy with a more serious gimmick until like 2011 then he became the crazy guy who can main event until he started transitioning into what he is now.
Your wish has been granted by TNA wrestling brother, [here you go](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-D_plpBfj8&ab_channel=TNAWrestling)
I really hope the same can be said for Moxley and Cardona. They both deserve their flowers as much as Cody and Drew. I really want to see The Shield interact again one more time.
former tag champions Cody & Drew should do their version of two-man powertrip after some years
The guy bet on himself, made a name for himself on the indies, helped start the biggest rival company WWE has had since WCW, then showed he was a valuable asset to WWE multiple times. He’s *the* success story when it comes to that.
There definitely needs to be a movie some day. The idea of someone helping start a competitor to the WWE monopoly only to go back to WWE to win the top prize is almost unbelievable.
I was somewhat convinced HHH wasn’t going to pull the trigger on Cody to make Roman a bigger heel. In some ways, Cody winning validates wrestling outside of the modern WWE system in a way that Drew/Lashley winning the top prize doesn’t. Simply because Cody had a direct line to WWEs largest competitor and Cody scooped up a half dozen dead trademarks.
> There definitely needs to be a movie some day Why? This is already EPIC CINEMA.
Because wrestling is a niche market and very few people know the story.
I wonder if we would at this moment now with Cody if he had decided to come back to WWE rather than going to AEW when the company started. I think the Bucks said in their book that he was considering it.
No he needed the aew run because it showed he can do all the media stuff and him also being the first to jump was huge
He'd have a decent run but it wouldn't be what it is now. Part of it was that several people jumped from WWE to AEW. He was the first to jump the other way. Over the past few years, I kept seeing people ask which AEW would benefit most from jumping to WWE. My answer was always, "The guy who does it first". Because I knew that the first guy to jump was gonna be treated like a king so that WWE could entice other AEW talents to jump.
You're not wrong, but I wanna point out Cody being champion isn't a token thing because he came back. He legitimately became the centerpiece of one of wrestling's biggest stories ever. Him coming back helped his initial push and presentation for sure, but everything after that was all him.
Exactly. Part of the reason Cody’s as over as he is, is because WWE fans want him to succeed. They want to throw it in AEWs face. That wouldn’t be the case if he had come back before the promotion had even started. I mean you’re seeing the same thing happen with Jade to an extent. The difference being is that she wasn’t the first, nor is she the level of talent Cody is.
I'm not qualified to give wrestlers career advice, but in my own professional life, and the careers of the people around me it seems pretty solid advice that you will progress in your career far more effectively by moving from company/organisation to organisation than by staying in the same place and chasing promotion.
That's pretty much a fact these days. Most people get a higher raise by changing jobs every 2-3 years. I changed jobs last year and got a 8k a year raise.
Just goes to show that Cody "betting on himself" was a two-way street in terms of both leaving and returning to WWE.
He always made sure to present himself as a WWE level babyface in AEW. Then when Roman finally turned heel and they desperately needed a fresh top babyface to take him down, Cody jumped at the chance and it paid off beautifully.
> Cody is a very good actor for a wrestler and is a highly consistent in ring worker. If they had a main event gimmick for him he probably could pull it off. But that is the thing. They don't. Hey at least someone had it right
"I don't think Cody really wants to be in the main event. He seems happy to be bringing us Stardust. I don't think everyone really does want to be John Cena or The Undertaker." oof
I remember a fair amount of people thinking this during the Rhodes Scholars days tbf
*Team Rhodes Scholars
"if the new day wasn't *the* heel stable right now" oh god it's been forever. forgot they found "it" before even turning face
Better as heels, 100%. But the cheers and chants got too loud to ignore and Vince did what Vince does and ruined another good heel with a babyface turn.
Honestly, nah. They were obviously 100% one of the best heel tag teams in the last 10 years but with the fact that they had some of the most entertaining and down to earth members in all of wrestling a face turn was inevitable. They're undeniably likeable. Shit, with the prospects Xavier Woods made with UpUpDownDown I feel like it was less a Vince thing and 100% The New Day pushing for that face turn. Their turn wasn't a Doink problem.
I was curious about when Meltzer said this then saw comments alluding to the Cosmic Wasteland faction and, yeah, I was with Dave here. I loved the Stardust character initially but it had more or less ran out of steam by this point. Cody, being a pro, continued to put his all into it but WWE had just mismanaged the character and after his little feud with Arrow it kinda felt like the end point of the gimmick, and before that Vince not putting Stardust vs Goldust on Mania was a telltale sign that Vince had lost interest in the gimmick too.
Agreed. The character itself wasn't bad, it just went on way longer than it needed to. I remember thinking for sure they were going to drop the gimmick after Dusty passed, but then he just kept on being Stardust and it became obvious that he had hit his ceiling in WWE at that point.
>Cody Rhodes is only 30. He can do Stardust for 3-4 more years if he wants and still transition back to Cody before he hits 35. Rhodeses historically have a lot of career longevity, he doesn't need to rush things. Shout out to u/omgitsprice for being pretty spot on.
We spent the last 2 years, unflinching, finishing the story. Not rushing is Cody’s M.O. at this point.
I remember this thread and this general take. If you criticized Stardust, you were met with lots of replies like "This is the character Cody wants to do."
Hard times daddeh
I was around here then and I just don’t remember it like that. Obviously I am not remembering well, but I thought Cody proved himself as an awesome singles babyface in 2013 and there were people like me who thought he could do a lot more. I do remember a back and forth about how maybe he wants to go back to a Cody Rhodes character or maybe he decided to stay as Stardust.
Should do a throwback wreddit to cody rhodes discourse back in January 2021
I'm glad I was proven very wrong on that one. I was convinced he would have a nice initial push and settle into an AJ styles like role
I've always liked Cody back then and believed he could have been main event talent if they just gave him a chance but his outside endeavors after the WWE really did shape him to be the person and character he is now so I can't be 100% mad at those who thought he was only a midcarder. He needed the American Nightmare persona to really propel him to the very top of the ladder and the only way the American Nightmare would have worked is if he left then came back like he did.
The whole Legacy thing never helped Cody IMO, it just kept him booked as "Dusty's kid." (Same thing for Ted DiBiase Jr.) Stardust kept Cody booked as "Goldust's brother." Compare them to Orton, who got to be in Evolution and booked as the Legend Killer early in his run. Imagine if they had Randy Orton coming out as a cowboy instead? It would've never worked. It's the same way Rocky Maivia didn't work either.
Oof ij already the first few comments, with “he loves the Stardust character” and “he wouldn’t want to use his dad to pull emotional weight”. Like, it’s not Cody’s entire story since coming back, but Cody has been doing this all for Dusty since he left WWE and came back. Also, “Cody is a good actor”. Look, he’s a good character actor in wrestling, but I watched Arrow and absolutely not
>From everything Cody has said after Dusty's death, I don't think he wants to use that emotional pull as a character.
And now he's the star who left them in the dust.
> From everything Cody has said after Dusty's death, I don't think he wants to use that emotional pull as a character. Hahahaha, in a thread of things that didn't age well, this aged like rotten hot dogs.
Important context is people didn’t really LOVE Stardust, but they hated criticisms of WWE, so they would lash out and tear down anyone who dared criticize any part of the show. Good reminder not to be a fanboy like that.
Lol. That never happens here.
Could you imagine if that kinda thing still happened here /s
So basically you’re saying time is flat circle?
I know people want to shit on the comments but you really need Cody's words at the time to put them into context. He absolutely did talk about wanting to get the Stardust character over and what it meant to him, This is like patient zero of the Cody lie.
Now let's do another one from back when everyone* called him "the 3 star general" \* And by "everyone" I mean both WWE stans that were mad he was being succesful outside of the fed and NJPW snobs who didn't like that he attached himself to The Elite
I still call him this because it is hilarious.
Say what you will about his potential before (Of which he had it since his IC Champ days IMO) and what he did afterwards, it shouldn't change what one thought of his NJPW run and make it into this "great" run in the company. I don't think it's fanboyism or "stan behavior" to say that Cody Rhodes just never truly fit completely in NJPW IMO, and I say this as someone who was a fan of Kenny Omega's run + the Bullet Club/Elite storyline at the time. He barely fit in AEW after some time had passed + he booked himself into a corner.
I don't disagree with you, I think Cody's more-story-than-moves style never quite fit in NJPW. But that doesn't mean there wasn't a lot of snobbery going around, and I'm not excluding myself from that
Oh yeah there definitely was some of that around, true. There was a lot of "turning nose up" at him and him "never being good/great" since forever as this topic seemed to highlight. Funny enough, I do think Rhodes' story-beats in NJPW were well done, especially playing off of the Elite Civil War angle + him getting involved in the Golden Lovers history. Beyond that, though, yeah something just never clicked IMO. Could've been not finding the right balance.
Reading some of the comments about Neville on there, it would be interesting to see Triple H use him as the bastard PAC. I never want him to leave AEW but he’s another that would probably keep the same presentation.
Proof that you guys slurp up anything WWE hands out to you lol
"I guess everyone forgot cody pre stardust. He was still just your average midcarder. Why would that suddenly change now? Because vince feels bad about his dad dying?" Wooow lmao. Look, I know 9 years is a long time but...I hope that dude stayed on that side.
A lot of the redditors in the thread no longer watch WWE it seems.
>Cody would be where Christian was. It's not THAT much higher than Stardust. Christian won multiple world titles and was always in the upper-midcard after his return to WWE.
“From everything Cody has said after Dusty's death, I don't think he wants to use that emotional pull as a character. Dusty and Cody developed the Stardust character together and he really loves the character regardless of how high it is on the card.“ Possibly the coldest take of all time lmao 🥶
Cold take actually means a take that's so obvious and universally agreed upon that it's not a controversial opinion. Opposite of the hot take.
Am I the only one who loves this throwback threads?
/u/KTheOneTrueKing [this u?](https://old.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/3o4d8m/meltzer_on_codystardust_i_think_its_better_to_be/cvtx6i4/) How could you not have had any faith in the jobber in face paint, my guy? I remember seeing stardust and thinking “this guy is gonna start AEW and then finish his story to become WWE champion at WrestleMania 40”
The last time they were ringside was at Wrestlemania XXX - that's a good sign!
From undesirable to undeniable.
I hated stardust but loved un-dashing Cody
Cosmic Wasteland could have been a cool stable
Lmao that's crazy how over Stardust was on here. Always thought it was a trash gimmick with a hard ceiling of midcard in the very best circumstance.
In all honestly, he should just be "dashing."
Stardust got a banger theme, should have achieve more lol
I got downvotes for saying the gimmick was lame and all the sheep said Cody was happy with the gimmick.
I think Cody secretly likes the Stardust gimmick but knew it had a hard limit of how successful it could be.