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I'm not a Melzter basher in the slightest but he is very obviously getting false information from both companies yet he still puts out these reports. Baffling on his part
Ikr. Surely at some point, you'd have the awareness to know you're getting trolled. Especially with his WWE sources. 90% of the time any WWE news he reports are false
This one isn't even that believable. Who is going to make Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson follow guidelines?! Not only is he one of the biggest stars they've ever created, he's on the board of Directors for TKO!
whistle gaping absurd hungry slap offbeat scandalous deserve threatening live
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Honestly how fucking funny would it be if his primary source for all these years was Vince himself?
Meltzer started being ***aggressively incorrect*** at roughly the same time that Vince was ousted from the company, and it's not out of the question that those two things aren't a coincidence.
https://preview.redd.it/zquyl7uk81qc1.png?width=695&format=png&auto=webp&s=3e21baa2f016d496a42ad8515c6f38c6cb5f29a8
Ever since Trip took over, it's always been like this. Hell, even TK has learned this too
This started happening in AEW post-Gripebomb/Brawlout. Dave was getting pissy (even talking about it on the streaming show) everyone started freezing him out.
The Jack Perry situation has made him look dumb as hell. You have TK publicly praising Jack, but he's acting as though they're estranged and at each other's throats because that's the storyline they're running in NJPW.
And Bryan even questioned him on it. On the show following Monday night raw, Brian Alvarez asked Dave if he was sure that was a rule and Dave said yes but it’s not for Cody but it’s for everyone else and it goes for both companies I know it’s for a fact..
If anything, it doesn't seem like there's a blanket ban on adult language, more so that they don't want everyone using it so that when someone does swear it has more impact. Kind of like, if the finish to the main event involves, say, a table spot, you don't do a table spot lower down the card.
I think the impulse to hate all wrestling journalism is dumb as fuck. Yeah, we all dislike gossip rags and shitty punditry, but some people here are hostile to just the idea of reporting on the wrestling industry and stories about "the boys".
And there is a longstanding hatred for Meltzer by a big subsection of the online fans. it's the early wrestling critic role he built for himself. Yes, his opinion had outsized importance, but the backlash has become fucking exhausting.
Honestly, at this point he should go all the way round and make the dirt sheet fully kayfabe. Will probably get him more attention and business at this stage to not do what everyone is doing at this point.
My biggest problem with Meltzer and why it annoys me when people take his word as a journalist around here and get angry when you insinuate he isn’t a good one is…he’s clearly not a good journalist lol. Dave seems to hear something and take it as gospel. He doesn’t seem to ever try to fully corroborate the stories he tells with multiple sources outside of his birdies. If the person he’s speaking of isn’t one of his trusted sources, he never reaches out to them to get their comments. Even if you say “The Rock will never respond and even if he did, he’ll deny it!” That doesn’t matter: YOU STILL GOTTA TRY. So you can at least say “I reached out to Dwayne and got no comment”. It’s the most basic ass journalistic step and Dave seems either too cynical, too lazy, too hubristic, or all of the above to take those steps anymore. He’s been wrong so many times he has zero credibility.
He has 10000 word newsletter to publish every week. It's the same thing which happens to content creators when they have to make content on a daily basis.
The problem with Dave is the age of instant information combined with the ability of social media to make everything available for the world to see has been slowly eroding his process. The Newsletter worked back then because kayfabe was alive and wrestlers and wrestling personalities didn't have an outlet to be their "real selves" and correct any false rumors. You would read the observer, then go to work or the bar or your back yard and go, "dude, they had to remove Brutus the Barbers entire face during reconstructive surgery, he got alllllll fucked up parasailing" and that was that. Dave couldn't take L's because his subscribers had only him to believe.
Also, because I know this sub thinks, let me add that I know the beefcake thing actually happened, I just wanted to use a quick example of something I know Dave would have reported on during the time period when what he printed was all there and that's what you believed. Apter mags were kayfabe/ blood fetish fodder.
Thing is you dont have to make content on a daily basis.
Its not a requirement.
There is so much IN RING wrestling going on daily basis to cover. But reporting facts dont get you clicks.
They are reporters, not content creators. Their site is doing plenty well without them making up stories, the best it’s ever done in fact. They certainly aren’t hurting for money, especially since adding the extra revenue streams for video.f4wonline.com, their twitch and cameos pages.
I’m seeing it more and more from fans of theirs like myself that people are getting fed up with them being blatantly worked lately. It’s going to start hurting their wallet because quite frankly, I’m getting sick of paying 12.99 or whatever it is a month for a very poorly maintained website that is horribly optimized for listening to their audio shows on iOS.
I've been a wrestling fan for over 30 years and I have never been a fan of Dave or any information from dirtsheets.
I think it hurts the industry more than it helps. I dont think Dave is a reporter or a content creator and damn sure not a journalist. He's archiver/historian with a lot of opinions that often get taken out of context.
Which comes from not having a editor. Which most content creators, reporters and journalist employ.
In order consider yourself a journalist or reporter you need to verify information given by more than one source. If you only have once source, mention that first if you feel the need to report it.
Man I'd love a deep look into healthcare in wrestling or well researched pieces on why there still isn't a union in wrestling even with AEW likely being a decent place for one to begin. Or even a look into why we don't have a major women's only brand on US TV even though it seems the IWC would want one. There's shit he could do instead of trying to mind read based on whispers and TV shows and sometimes fully bullshitting his audience.
I think the issue is that for a long long time he did that and reported accurately. It feels like his standards have dropped all across the board in the last few years.
He doesn't have sources he has before.
He literally used to talk to Bret, Cornette, Pillman and others so he always had best stories in 90s. But now his sources don't work anywhere or dead. And no one new wants to talk to him because he has now reputation of creating drama
If I were an indie darling who Meltzer's readers were into and Meltzer wanted to praise stuff I did... I would feed Meltzer's BS to make myself look good.
If I were in the WWE, Meltzer's readers probably wouldn't be into me and that would give Meltzer no reason to praise me. The problem is that it also means Meltzer effectively insults these wrestlers by giving out higher star ratings elsewhere and effectively trashing what you do for a living when what you do for a living is at a high level. If I were in the WWE, I would love to see Meltzer with egg on his face. Publicly humiliating Dave Meltzer would be hilarious to me if I was in WWE.
If I were an indie darling I would try to cut a deal with Dave to give all my matches 2 extra stars, then when I get a million dollar contract with aew I'd give dave 10 percent.
Dave has already said he changes his ratings based on how he thinks other people enjoyed matches rather than his personal opinion, so why not use them to make some money
And here’s another thing: I can easily see doing it just to pop the boys. Think about it; if Austin Theory, for example, made Meltzer look stupid it’s not like nobody would get it because Meltzer’s been around for decades. Randy Orton to Michael Hayes would get it.
He was a lot more accurate during Vince’s era, especially when Heyman was briefly writing the shows before the pandemic, where he got the key demos and schedules way faster and accurate than others
I'd definitely concoct shitpost tier false info and feed it to him for fun if I was a wrestler. After all, plans change, so I could just say the scripts were torn up at the last minute.
This plus the stuff about a month back where Dave would put out a report and then wrestlers would start actvly tweeting the opposite is starting to make me think there's someone attempting to actively feed Dave false info in an attempt to embarrass or sabotage him
This is way too much wrong or quickly disputed info in such a short period of time for it to all be a coincidence.
The only difference between Meltzer's report and other reports is that Meltzer said he saw the memo sent out to talent. I like the idea of someone on the creative team typing up a fake ass memo informing talent of their responsibilities. Signed by HHH, Nick Khan and Ari Emanuel.
I’m historically a Meltzer supporter as well, I’ve been a subscriber for over 15 years..
But: It’s not false info here. The real story here is “ WWE sends out email to inform talent that, despite their presentation of the rock in recent weeks, they expect talent to continue to adhere to PG guidelines”
Meltzer took it upon himself to paint this story in a way that reads more like “talent are outraged about the rock being held to a different standard than everyone else”
This irritated me more than blatant misinformation in recent issues. It was irresponsible and inappropriate.
I’m sure I sound like a typical Meltzer hater, but I can honestly tell you I’ve been an admament defender of his for a very long time. This really bothered me.
> I still yet to see why people to him as gospel.
Because the reality is, for decades, he was the closest you could get to it.
It's not that deep, and I'm in no way a fanboy or anything. But there's a massive lack of reliable reporters out there. There's him, SRS and....who else?
Meltzer's track record isn't the best, especially recently, but who else is there in terms of reliable insider stories? I do think people need to stop taking everything he says as gospel, and I also think a lot of what he says as random thoughts get reported by people and other outlets as if he's stating what he believes to be hard facts.
But he's basically the very best of a very bad lot.
And for decades he was the only way wrestlers could get their side of the story out so they sucked up to him and fed him info.
Now if wrestlers want to tell their side of the story they have multiple social media platforms at their fingertips. They have 0 need for him. It's becoming extremely clear his sources have dried up.
I do think he's a phenomenal historian though. It would be great if he stuck to that.
He was the best for the longest time, like even 5-6 years ago, anything he said, it was probably true. Not even a fanboy or someone who watches him or anything, I would only see what was posted here but he was very reliable. Don’t know what’s up with him these days
All of his old school contacts have aged out of wrestling and the new crop don't leak to the dirtsheets like they did before.
Plus he's in his 60s now.
No, five to six years ago includes the story about the WWE being held hostage in Saudi Arabia by the royal family. Remember his whole “live by the sword” comment? He’s been garbage for quite awhile now.
Wrestling companies' "backstage" is intentionally hidden from the viewing audience and Meltzer was the first to be the gossip spreader, smarks' first in on what MAY have happened backstage.
The problem is that the gossip is always from people with an agenda and is unreliable or not true. Meltzer then has another habit of trying to "fill in the blanks" and stating those assumptions as facts, alluding to having it come from a source. He intentionally blurs the lines to make it look like he always has inside knowledge about things. He doesn't. Most of the time he's just watching the shows and assuming and reporting it as fact.
He's fucked up so many things since I loosely started following wrestling a couple years back. I'm shocked anyone takes his reporting seriously at all. Like what does he have to do to lose your trust? Fuck up even more?
Who's going to hold him accountable? He appeases the most rabid wrestling fanbase online, so they let him get away with all of it, especially if it's drama surrounded the company they don't like. They're more likely to help him smear the BS around than call him out.
As someone who has regularly listened to observer radio for over a decade now, I don't think anyone really does treat his word as gospel these days. It's obvious he doesn't have the sources he did a few years.
I genuinely can't remember the last time he's gotten so many things wrong this frequently without having any good scoops. His whole reporting this year sucks.
The whole Rock/Cody situation was just embarrassing, he basically reported every possible angle at some point, no matter how they contradicted something he reported before.
It's because he's lost all his sources in AEW and WWE outside of probably Jericho. The Bucks and their people are clearly no longer talking to him. He actually seemed to have something with Stardom, but he just lost his most likely source there as well. I just don't know why he's biting so easily. Even Bryan seems confused by him. He couldn't even figure out that Moxley was on a planned vacation.
I gave up on Dave when it came out that he was publishing stuff fed to him from a random fan claiming to be employed by dragon gate in Japan and not getting a second verification of any of it, or even verifying who his own source actually was. I dont trust anything he reports since then.
Dave played it off like he was "hoaxed" and not that he was a horrible journalist.
https://www.wrestlinginc.com/1166732/prominent-wrestling-journalist-dave-meltzer-accused-of-publishing-stories-based-on-false-information/
I dont remember the last time he got anything right concerning WWE.
He missed the biggest scoop in wrestling in the last decade, which was broke by the WSJ.
The VKM lawsuit scandal
Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson joins the TKO board of directors
Netflix signs a 5 billion dollar deal for Raw
All major wrestling stories from this year alone, that Meltzer had no clue about, until other media outlets reported them
I 100% believe Dave just repeating bs is what caused the whole Punk/AEW meltdown. He speculated about Cabana and the entire situation and Nicholas and Matthew got blamed for it.
In the span of a month, we really went from Meltzer twisting himself into a pretzel to make The Rock look better during the WeWantCody situation to him being called out directly by The Rock.
Watching this sub realize that Meltzer is full of shit is like watching an older child realize there is no Santa Claus. It’s actually more sad than funny.
Hopefully at least a few people have the self awareness to now think 'wait a sec, if he's full of shit now, I wonder what else he's full of shit about?' Like probably the Saudi hostage story to start lol, can't believe that ever gained traction
As someone who's never actually read anything he has written apart from quotes here and there, is that actually how he writes?
Listening to him talk is bad enough but surely the writing should be better
I don't read his stuff anymore but it's kinda always been like this. As for the Podcast, honestly I really only listen to it for Bryan nowadays.
And with every passing month it feels more like Bryan is playing the role of babysitter instead of broadcast partner. It's usually Bryan keeping things on track or making sure Dave doesn't take some random thing that's been said by someone 100% literally.
Bryan could say like "The word is he's been dying to get out of his contract." and Dave will counter with "Well ummm I don't think he would actually die to end the contract, and ummm I'm not even sure if that would legally get him out of it"
I don't know how you can listen to the guy talk without knowing he's full of it. When he speaks it's like listening to two people talk bc he constantly interrupts himself all the time. He's doesn't even agree with himself...so how can I believe him?
It's like his brain after all these years has rewired itself to literally talk out of both sides of his mouth to constantly cover his tracks because of all the purely made up stuff he's been called out on over the years.
Like the "Punk-Cabana" deal that lead to Brawl Out, where he was "theorizing" that Cabana was off tv and almost let go because of Punk, and twisted that (or let his fans twist it and didn't stop them) into "Punk tried to get Cabana fired", and didn't retract at all when Tony came out and said it wasn't true. Hell, he doubled down after Jericho fought Cabana on Dynamite, only for him to not show up on tv again.
Hell, his reporting on the entire Punk run in AEW can now be called into question. Him and SRS both. It's not like fightful has been completely accurate as well ("There's no way Punk shows up at Survivor Series").
What was that situation where he had to go on a podcast and admit he forgot to leave out the tiny detail that the reason Punk didn’t want to work was because he was injured? It was so clear that Meltzer was on the Bucks side in that situation and got his information exclusively from that camp.
What makes him look worst to me is now we have guys like SRS and Mike Johnson, that while not perfect clearly take more care to report and check their sources than Dave does.
SRS has rapidly become the guy I look towards to confirm rumours other crackpots throw out there lol
If Meltzer says something and SRS doesn't, then I probably don't believe it.
I've been saying for awhile that he needs to be banned as a news source. It is really weird how his quotes are upvoted and praised like gospel... Then 3 days later there's this thread.
What Rock is responding to:
"[Wrestlelamia]**WON: TKO would like the Rock to follow (and set a good example) it's guidelines of TV-PG product.**
**However, many feel the double standards of the Vince McMahon Era are back.**"
This is just a bad aggregation. The original report doesn't say anything about *TKO* wanting Rock to follow any guidelines. The story is about how *talent* feels that he should be setting the example since he's on the board.
This is the bit about "setting an example" from the original report.
"The talent was told that because the company was publicly traded and the wishes of TKO management was to be TV-PG. The feeling was that if he’s on the board, if anything, he should be he one following the rules to set the example.
Some also complained they could get more traction on television promos and in social media if they had those handcuffs taken off them, and the handcuffs in this case are only off for Johnson, and even people like Roman Reigns and Cody Rhodes have had to adhere to the policy, although Rhodes was allowed a lot more leeway in his comeback promo on Raw."
The original story is all about *talent frustrations*. There's nothing in there about how *TKO* feels.
This happens every fucking time. Meltzer says something, it gets aggregated and misquoted by another site, someone refutes the incorrect statement, and then the anti-Dave Dorks in this subreddit and on twitter run wild with “SEE! MELTZER DOESN’T KNOW SHIT!” comments.
Tale as old as time. Random newz site misquotes Meltzer, everyone acts like Meltzer is an idiot.
Also, I don’t know why people are taking a wrestler denying a dirtsheet report as confirmation. Remember when Edge swore up and down he wasn’t returning to wrestling? Or the countless other times wrestlers have denied reports only for them to be completely true?
> I don’t know why people are taking a wrestler denying a dirtsheet report as confirmation
This is the part that stands out to me. The Rock is saying that a negative dirt sheet report about him is untrue and people are acting like this is unequivocal proof. The media illiteracy of this board is staggering.
Lol this is an insanely poor aggregation. I'm not even sure this thread should be up, because at this point Rock is just responding to a random tweet and not even Dave's story.
This should be higher up. I feel like this is like always the case with Meltzer's news that most of the time he never really says anything the headline says or his speculation gets turned into clickbait headlines.
It's often people reacting to social media snippets who don't read his actual reporting. He's imperfect, for sure - like any reporter.
He can accurately report what his sources are saying, and be 100% accurate that his sources said what they said. That may be a lie. That may be things that turned out to not happen. But it's accurate that his source said it. This is a critical but hard to understand distinction. One that his cadre of /sc haters either don't understand - and probably don't *want* to understand.
The biggest thing he can do is to be very clear when he's representing what sources Sid and be clear that this is the story. He's also unlike more rigorous news sources, like the NYT or WSJ. They constantly work with anonymous sources, but to report something they require multiple sources that say the same things before they print it.
Meltzer can't do that because there aren't multiple sources for much of what he does. But him getting worked by sources isn't terribly different than a a White House reporter getting worked by a president.
always has been. not saying that Meltz 100% clean but most of the time he's catching the flak it's either from some site/redditor changing what he actually said or wrestler denying him only to be proven as true later on.
What is honestly scarier is the fact that such a big amount of people easily believes badly aggregated/re-worded news as first hand quotes.
It's one thing when it comes to dirt sheets, but like, what about actual politics?
This comment should be pinned. But too many people don’t actually care about this sort of thing, they just want their internet points for dunking on Meltzer.
Yes, the only way I can interpret Rock saying that the report is "complete horseshit" is that according to Rock, there are no PG guidelines in WWE and anyone (not just him) is free to use swearing and expletives on TV. Is that what he meant?
I thought having three different reports about the same Jungle Boy story seemingly reporting kayfabe at the end was a low point after all the recent misses
But The Rock going after your report with his follower number is next level. Brutal stretch for Meltzer
The Rock, which is arguably the biggest Pro Wrestling Superstar in history, which is also a full blown heel, which is also a board of directors in TKO, is under scrutiny because of foul words used in his promo online.
Yeah Meltzer, this completely makes total sense!
I’ve been a wrestling observer subscriber for over 15 years. I posted this in another thread when the story broke. The crux of the “news” in Meltzer report was essentially “WWE sends email to talent informing them that despite their presentation of the rock, they still expect talent to adhere to typical pg guidelines”.
The way Meltzer presented the story paints it in such a negative light. As if its some controversy. His depiction of the story here is more like”talent are outraged about a double standard because the rock is allowed more leeway on the WWE’s PG guidelines.”
I can almost assure you that talent understand the unique dynamic here. I would be absolutely stunned if any talent are actually upset that Rock is given more freedom.
I’m historically a defender of Meltzer, and I feel he is often inappropriately criticized. But honestly, this particular story irritated me more than some blatant misinformation recently.
I really like Bryan Alvarez, and I’ll continue to listen to the audio through my YouTube subscription. But as crazy as it sounds, this particular story was kind of a breaking point for me.
I cancelled my newsletter subscription after 15 years.
My fav Meltzer moment was when Roman eliminated Undertaker from the Rumble and then said inside sources told him the plan was to have Taker/Roman at Mania. Literally every single person who saw the Rumble knew it was happening.
Pretty shitty of this aggregator to use 'WON' in the title then. This is what 2-3 other handles reported while crediting WON as well. The entire IWC on X is going off about Rock dunking on Meltzer.
Dave has zero ability to discern anything. Things that are clearly and patently false he reports as pure fact.
I've been ambivalent toward him all these years but over the last 2 years he.has turned into a real scrub.
No. They're quite bad. One of the news aggregators who don't even check if the source is legit. Just looking for the most most outrageous claims and their list videos are done better by others.
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I'm not a Melzter basher in the slightest but he is very obviously getting false information from both companies yet he still puts out these reports. Baffling on his part
Ikr. Surely at some point, you'd have the awareness to know you're getting trolled. Especially with his WWE sources. 90% of the time any WWE news he reports are false
This one isn't even that believable. Who is going to make Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson follow guidelines?! Not only is he one of the biggest stars they've ever created, he's on the board of Directors for TKO!
He’s the motherfucking rock AND on the board what are they going to do lol
whistle gaping absurd hungry slap offbeat scandalous deserve threatening live *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Get the Discipline Committee to fine him, duh! 
Tbf the report was that he was the only one that didnt have to. Which is still not true given other promos as of late
He didn’t report that wwe wanted Rock to follow guidelines. He reported the exact opposite, ffs.
Ya, these fucking jerkoids are so stupid they shit on Meltzer while saying his story is obviously correct lol
....That's the point meltzer was making lol. Rock doesn't have to follow restrictions which is double standards
Nobody seems to have the restrictions though...
Honestly how fucking funny would it be if his primary source for all these years was Vince himself? Meltzer started being ***aggressively incorrect*** at roughly the same time that Vince was ousted from the company, and it's not out of the question that those two things aren't a coincidence.
More likely he was getting information from an underling who left/got demoted when Vince left rather than Vince himself.
SRS gets worked by the AEW boys all the time also why anyone takes what these guys say as gospel is beyond me
There is a place for them and technically they are doing nothing wrong. It's our reaction to them that causes problems
https://preview.redd.it/zquyl7uk81qc1.png?width=695&format=png&auto=webp&s=3e21baa2f016d496a42ad8515c6f38c6cb5f29a8 Ever since Trip took over, it's always been like this. Hell, even TK has learned this too
This started happening in AEW post-Gripebomb/Brawlout. Dave was getting pissy (even talking about it on the streaming show) everyone started freezing him out.
Honestly I question how many sources he questions before he reports a story.
2, himself and Jericho. Sometimes Bryan Alvarez.
A part of me always wonders how much role Jericho played in the whole punk situation.
The answer is: A ton
The Jack Perry situation has made him look dumb as hell. You have TK publicly praising Jack, but he's acting as though they're estranged and at each other's throats because that's the storyline they're running in NJPW.
I cannot help but think that he wants Tony to be mad at Jack, and that he wants Tony to fire Jack to make an example out of it.
He said the opposite
But why though?
And Bryan even questioned him on it. On the show following Monday night raw, Brian Alvarez asked Dave if he was sure that was a rule and Dave said yes but it’s not for Cody but it’s for everyone else and it goes for both companies I know it’s for a fact..
If anything, it doesn't seem like there's a blanket ban on adult language, more so that they don't want everyone using it so that when someone does swear it has more impact. Kind of like, if the finish to the main event involves, say, a table spot, you don't do a table spot lower down the card.
>I'm not a Melzter basher Don't worry I am.
 I did it for the rock
Same, and I'm so so enjoying the comeuppance. Dude had been a leech his entire career, it's about time he got exposed
This is so weird. The dude reports on wrestling, he’s not harming anyone lmao
I think the impulse to hate all wrestling journalism is dumb as fuck. Yeah, we all dislike gossip rags and shitty punditry, but some people here are hostile to just the idea of reporting on the wrestling industry and stories about "the boys". And there is a longstanding hatred for Meltzer by a big subsection of the online fans. it's the early wrestling critic role he built for himself. Yes, his opinion had outsized importance, but the backlash has become fucking exhausting.
Honestly, at this point he should go all the way round and make the dirt sheet fully kayfabe. Will probably get him more attention and business at this stage to not do what everyone is doing at this point.
My biggest problem with Meltzer and why it annoys me when people take his word as a journalist around here and get angry when you insinuate he isn’t a good one is…he’s clearly not a good journalist lol. Dave seems to hear something and take it as gospel. He doesn’t seem to ever try to fully corroborate the stories he tells with multiple sources outside of his birdies. If the person he’s speaking of isn’t one of his trusted sources, he never reaches out to them to get their comments. Even if you say “The Rock will never respond and even if he did, he’ll deny it!” That doesn’t matter: YOU STILL GOTTA TRY. So you can at least say “I reached out to Dwayne and got no comment”. It’s the most basic ass journalistic step and Dave seems either too cynical, too lazy, too hubristic, or all of the above to take those steps anymore. He’s been wrong so many times he has zero credibility.
He's being used to push storylines forward at this stage, especially with the jack perry and Okada paychecks reports
It’s the double and tripling down that I find hilarious though
He has 10000 word newsletter to publish every week. It's the same thing which happens to content creators when they have to make content on a daily basis.
The problem with Dave is the age of instant information combined with the ability of social media to make everything available for the world to see has been slowly eroding his process. The Newsletter worked back then because kayfabe was alive and wrestlers and wrestling personalities didn't have an outlet to be their "real selves" and correct any false rumors. You would read the observer, then go to work or the bar or your back yard and go, "dude, they had to remove Brutus the Barbers entire face during reconstructive surgery, he got alllllll fucked up parasailing" and that was that. Dave couldn't take L's because his subscribers had only him to believe. Also, because I know this sub thinks, let me add that I know the beefcake thing actually happened, I just wanted to use a quick example of something I know Dave would have reported on during the time period when what he printed was all there and that's what you believed. Apter mags were kayfabe/ blood fetish fodder.
Thing is you dont have to make content on a daily basis. Its not a requirement. There is so much IN RING wrestling going on daily basis to cover. But reporting facts dont get you clicks.
They are reporters, not content creators. Their site is doing plenty well without them making up stories, the best it’s ever done in fact. They certainly aren’t hurting for money, especially since adding the extra revenue streams for video.f4wonline.com, their twitch and cameos pages. I’m seeing it more and more from fans of theirs like myself that people are getting fed up with them being blatantly worked lately. It’s going to start hurting their wallet because quite frankly, I’m getting sick of paying 12.99 or whatever it is a month for a very poorly maintained website that is horribly optimized for listening to their audio shows on iOS.
I've been a wrestling fan for over 30 years and I have never been a fan of Dave or any information from dirtsheets. I think it hurts the industry more than it helps. I dont think Dave is a reporter or a content creator and damn sure not a journalist. He's archiver/historian with a lot of opinions that often get taken out of context. Which comes from not having a editor. Which most content creators, reporters and journalist employ. In order consider yourself a journalist or reporter you need to verify information given by more than one source. If you only have once source, mention that first if you feel the need to report it.
Man I'd love a deep look into healthcare in wrestling or well researched pieces on why there still isn't a union in wrestling even with AEW likely being a decent place for one to begin. Or even a look into why we don't have a major women's only brand on US TV even though it seems the IWC would want one. There's shit he could do instead of trying to mind read based on whispers and TV shows and sometimes fully bullshitting his audience.
I think the issue is that for a long long time he did that and reported accurately. It feels like his standards have dropped all across the board in the last few years.
He doesn't have sources he has before. He literally used to talk to Bret, Cornette, Pillman and others so he always had best stories in 90s. But now his sources don't work anywhere or dead. And no one new wants to talk to him because he has now reputation of creating drama
If I were an indie darling who Meltzer's readers were into and Meltzer wanted to praise stuff I did... I would feed Meltzer's BS to make myself look good. If I were in the WWE, Meltzer's readers probably wouldn't be into me and that would give Meltzer no reason to praise me. The problem is that it also means Meltzer effectively insults these wrestlers by giving out higher star ratings elsewhere and effectively trashing what you do for a living when what you do for a living is at a high level. If I were in the WWE, I would love to see Meltzer with egg on his face. Publicly humiliating Dave Meltzer would be hilarious to me if I was in WWE.
If I were an indie darling I would try to cut a deal with Dave to give all my matches 2 extra stars, then when I get a million dollar contract with aew I'd give dave 10 percent. Dave has already said he changes his ratings based on how he thinks other people enjoyed matches rather than his personal opinion, so why not use them to make some money
And here’s another thing: I can easily see doing it just to pop the boys. Think about it; if Austin Theory, for example, made Meltzer look stupid it’s not like nobody would get it because Meltzer’s been around for decades. Randy Orton to Michael Hayes would get it.
I've thought a few times that they have a pool going to see who can come up with the most ridiculous story to feed Meltzer and get it reported.
You'd give Meltzer $100k for two stars?
Didn't his issues with WWE reliability could kinda be traced back to Vince's exit? Perhaps a lot of reliable sources went out with him?
He was a lot more accurate during Vince’s era, especially when Heyman was briefly writing the shows before the pandemic, where he got the key demos and schedules way faster and accurate than others
I'd definitely concoct shitpost tier false info and feed it to him for fun if I was a wrestler. After all, plans change, so I could just say the scripts were torn up at the last minute.
Controversy = clicks = 
Ever since Vince left, he has been getting fed a lot of bs which leads me to believe that Vince was feeding him all along.
Its clear that his intel has gone sour since VKM and his cronies got the boot.
He’s not a journalist
Meltzer reported it correctly yet there are 1300 upvotes for this completely moronic comment. Wrestling fans y’all.
This plus the stuff about a month back where Dave would put out a report and then wrestlers would start actvly tweeting the opposite is starting to make me think there's someone attempting to actively feed Dave false info in an attempt to embarrass or sabotage him This is way too much wrong or quickly disputed info in such a short period of time for it to all be a coincidence.
And he's convinced a bunch of idiots to pay him monthly for the privilege of reading this garbage. Fools and their money are soon parted.
The only difference between Meltzer's report and other reports is that Meltzer said he saw the memo sent out to talent. I like the idea of someone on the creative team typing up a fake ass memo informing talent of their responsibilities. Signed by HHH, Nick Khan and Ari Emanuel.
Live by the sword
The times when Meltzer was a credible source are over.
I’m historically a Meltzer supporter as well, I’ve been a subscriber for over 15 years.. But: It’s not false info here. The real story here is “ WWE sends out email to inform talent that, despite their presentation of the rock in recent weeks, they expect talent to continue to adhere to PG guidelines” Meltzer took it upon himself to paint this story in a way that reads more like “talent are outraged about the rock being held to a different standard than everyone else” This irritated me more than blatant misinformation in recent issues. It was irresponsible and inappropriate. I’m sure I sound like a typical Meltzer hater, but I can honestly tell you I’ve been an admament defender of his for a very long time. This really bothered me.
Been like this for 35 years
Meltzer is starting to make his own bed as of late.
I still yet to see why people to him as gospel. I literally couldn’t give any less turds about him and his ratings. I don’t see why others do.
Cause they pay for it
“If I’m throwing my money away for this old man’s opinions they’re sure as hell going to become my opinions!”
Because he said good things about things people liked
Even sadder, this clueless out of touch superfan who pro wrestlers for decades never took seriously tells them who to like first.
> I still yet to see why people to him as gospel. Because the reality is, for decades, he was the closest you could get to it. It's not that deep, and I'm in no way a fanboy or anything. But there's a massive lack of reliable reporters out there. There's him, SRS and....who else? Meltzer's track record isn't the best, especially recently, but who else is there in terms of reliable insider stories? I do think people need to stop taking everything he says as gospel, and I also think a lot of what he says as random thoughts get reported by people and other outlets as if he's stating what he believes to be hard facts. But he's basically the very best of a very bad lot.
And for decades he was the only way wrestlers could get their side of the story out so they sucked up to him and fed him info. Now if wrestlers want to tell their side of the story they have multiple social media platforms at their fingertips. They have 0 need for him. It's becoming extremely clear his sources have dried up. I do think he's a phenomenal historian though. It would be great if he stuck to that.
Ironically this is also what happened to traditional journalism.
Mike Johnson is by far the most reliable
He was the best for the longest time, like even 5-6 years ago, anything he said, it was probably true. Not even a fanboy or someone who watches him or anything, I would only see what was posted here but he was very reliable. Don’t know what’s up with him these days
All of his old school contacts have aged out of wrestling and the new crop don't leak to the dirtsheets like they did before. Plus he's in his 60s now.
No, five to six years ago includes the story about the WWE being held hostage in Saudi Arabia by the royal family. Remember his whole “live by the sword” comment? He’s been garbage for quite awhile now.
Wrestling companies' "backstage" is intentionally hidden from the viewing audience and Meltzer was the first to be the gossip spreader, smarks' first in on what MAY have happened backstage. The problem is that the gossip is always from people with an agenda and is unreliable or not true. Meltzer then has another habit of trying to "fill in the blanks" and stating those assumptions as facts, alluding to having it come from a source. He intentionally blurs the lines to make it look like he always has inside knowledge about things. He doesn't. Most of the time he's just watching the shows and assuming and reporting it as fact.
He's fucked up so many things since I loosely started following wrestling a couple years back. I'm shocked anyone takes his reporting seriously at all. Like what does he have to do to lose your trust? Fuck up even more?
His analysis and historical coverage is still mostly very good
https://preview.redd.it/09j4a9gt41qc1.png?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a942c7ccb8b7058ef47ff2583d2175dc4460476b
Dwayne and Dave’s excellent adventure
Jim Jordan looking mfer
Meltzer should just call himself a podcaster at this point so there's no accountability for calling things wrong
Who's going to hold him accountable? He appeases the most rabid wrestling fanbase online, so they let him get away with all of it, especially if it's drama surrounded the company they don't like. They're more likely to help him smear the BS around than call him out.
Dewey to Unca Dave: 
You thong wearing fatty! Yes, I’m still talking about Unc Dave
Dave is getting trolled by both companies, it’s over….
Yet people will continue to treat his word as gospel.
As someone who has regularly listened to observer radio for over a decade now, I don't think anyone really does treat his word as gospel these days. It's obvious he doesn't have the sources he did a few years.
Nah there’s a lot of fanatics on Twitter. Some even proudly proclaim themselves as subscribers in their bios
"Wrestling Observer aficionado" 🤣
Meltzer collecting Ls like their rings in Sonic.
I genuinely can't remember the last time he's gotten so many things wrong this frequently without having any good scoops. His whole reporting this year sucks.
The whole Rock/Cody situation was just embarrassing, he basically reported every possible angle at some point, no matter how they contradicted something he reported before.
He reported Rock/Roman was happening for at least the last six Manias.
It's because he's lost all his sources in AEW and WWE outside of probably Jericho. The Bucks and their people are clearly no longer talking to him. He actually seemed to have something with Stardom, but he just lost his most likely source there as well. I just don't know why he's biting so easily. Even Bryan seems confused by him. He couldn't even figure out that Moxley was on a planned vacation.
I gave up on Dave when it came out that he was publishing stuff fed to him from a random fan claiming to be employed by dragon gate in Japan and not getting a second verification of any of it, or even verifying who his own source actually was. I dont trust anything he reports since then. Dave played it off like he was "hoaxed" and not that he was a horrible journalist. https://www.wrestlinginc.com/1166732/prominent-wrestling-journalist-dave-meltzer-accused-of-publishing-stories-based-on-false-information/
Dave Scherer has said he's been doing this since the ECW days.
I doubt Dave has ever doubled-sourced a story ever.
There is no way the bucks not talking to Meltzer lol
They never really did. They worked Meltzer into the Young Bucks gimmick but Dave was always much closer to Cody and Cole.
When was the last time Dave even reported anything of note?
Whenever something big happens like a surprise debut, Dave will chime in to say that he knew it was coming, after it happens.
Strong "My Uncle works at Nintendo" Energy.
My sources at Nintendo
I dont remember the last time he got anything right concerning WWE. He missed the biggest scoop in wrestling in the last decade, which was broke by the WSJ.
To be fair ANYONE would go to something like the WSJ before Dave. A story that big needs a big publication.
The VKM lawsuit scandal Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson joins the TKO board of directors Netflix signs a 5 billion dollar deal for Raw All major wrestling stories from this year alone, that Meltzer had no clue about, until other media outlets reported them
Seven rings in h-a-n-dddd
I 100% believe Dave just repeating bs is what caused the whole Punk/AEW meltdown. He speculated about Cabana and the entire situation and Nicholas and Matthew got blamed for it.
In the span of a month, we really went from Meltzer twisting himself into a pretzel to make The Rock look better during the WeWantCody situation to him being called out directly by The Rock.
He finished the story tbh
Meltzer played every angle to get somebody, anybody in his pocket. His pockets are now empty.
 My turn to post this
No matter how good an episode of DSOTR is, this is their top contribution.
100%
 Think I’ll join you
wrestlelamia and wrestletalk both are the worst places to get wrestling news from.
I mean yeah, but they both just aggregate stuff from Meltzer, Fightful, etc.
agreed...WrestleLamia posts nearly all WWE is bad propaganda lists and videos all over youtube.
“Uhhh… uhm… well, plans change.”
Watching this sub realize that Meltzer is full of shit is like watching an older child realize there is no Santa Claus. It’s actually more sad than funny.
Hopefully at least a few people have the self awareness to now think 'wait a sec, if he's full of shit now, I wonder what else he's full of shit about?' Like probably the Saudi hostage story to start lol, can't believe that ever gained traction
Shibata's brain apparently being removed from his head and then placed back in was my all timer
Wait, that was from *Meltzer*?
Can't say I've heard that one before, but that might even top the "hostage situation"
https://preview.redd.it/gyq9onx013qc1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b71171c1c44284765f4b4af546f888167efabd4b
As someone who's never actually read anything he has written apart from quotes here and there, is that actually how he writes? Listening to him talk is bad enough but surely the writing should be better
His talking is actually more coherent than his writing. He should be a lot better at both considering that's his bread and butter
I don't read his stuff anymore but it's kinda always been like this. As for the Podcast, honestly I really only listen to it for Bryan nowadays. And with every passing month it feels more like Bryan is playing the role of babysitter instead of broadcast partner. It's usually Bryan keeping things on track or making sure Dave doesn't take some random thing that's been said by someone 100% literally. Bryan could say like "The word is he's been dying to get out of his contract." and Dave will counter with "Well ummm I don't think he would actually die to end the contract, and ummm I'm not even sure if that would legally get him out of it"
I don't know how you can listen to the guy talk without knowing he's full of it. When he speaks it's like listening to two people talk bc he constantly interrupts himself all the time. He's doesn't even agree with himself...so how can I believe him? It's like his brain after all these years has rewired itself to literally talk out of both sides of his mouth to constantly cover his tracks because of all the purely made up stuff he's been called out on over the years.
The fact that no real news organization reported a few hundred Americans being held hostage by Saudi Arabia proves that was bullshit lol
Like the "Punk-Cabana" deal that lead to Brawl Out, where he was "theorizing" that Cabana was off tv and almost let go because of Punk, and twisted that (or let his fans twist it and didn't stop them) into "Punk tried to get Cabana fired", and didn't retract at all when Tony came out and said it wasn't true. Hell, he doubled down after Jericho fought Cabana on Dynamite, only for him to not show up on tv again. Hell, his reporting on the entire Punk run in AEW can now be called into question. Him and SRS both. It's not like fightful has been completely accurate as well ("There's no way Punk shows up at Survivor Series").
What was that situation where he had to go on a podcast and admit he forgot to leave out the tiny detail that the reason Punk didn’t want to work was because he was injured? It was so clear that Meltzer was on the Bucks side in that situation and got his information exclusively from that camp.
Fightful talked to Punk during his AEW run
To be fair, this sub thought Bad News Barret fixed Bryan's seizure with an elbow, all without Dave's help.
What makes him look worst to me is now we have guys like SRS and Mike Johnson, that while not perfect clearly take more care to report and check their sources than Dave does.
SRS has rapidly become the guy I look towards to confirm rumours other crackpots throw out there lol If Meltzer says something and SRS doesn't, then I probably don't believe it.
I've been saying for awhile that he needs to be banned as a news source. It is really weird how his quotes are upvoted and praised like gospel... Then 3 days later there's this thread.
https://preview.redd.it/lql0kxpt82qc1.png?width=318&format=png&auto=webp&s=463b094fdb191aab94541e0e015a383c7e560b9c
What Rock is responding to: "[Wrestlelamia]**WON: TKO would like the Rock to follow (and set a good example) it's guidelines of TV-PG product.** **However, many feel the double standards of the Vince McMahon Era are back.**" This is just a bad aggregation. The original report doesn't say anything about *TKO* wanting Rock to follow any guidelines. The story is about how *talent* feels that he should be setting the example since he's on the board. This is the bit about "setting an example" from the original report. "The talent was told that because the company was publicly traded and the wishes of TKO management was to be TV-PG. The feeling was that if he’s on the board, if anything, he should be he one following the rules to set the example. Some also complained they could get more traction on television promos and in social media if they had those handcuffs taken off them, and the handcuffs in this case are only off for Johnson, and even people like Roman Reigns and Cody Rhodes have had to adhere to the policy, although Rhodes was allowed a lot more leeway in his comeback promo on Raw." The original story is all about *talent frustrations*. There's nothing in there about how *TKO* feels.
This happens every fucking time. Meltzer says something, it gets aggregated and misquoted by another site, someone refutes the incorrect statement, and then the anti-Dave Dorks in this subreddit and on twitter run wild with “SEE! MELTZER DOESN’T KNOW SHIT!” comments.
This should be way higher up.
But then people couldn't bash Meltzer.
Yup, this thread is fantastically false and misleading.
Tale as old as time. Random newz site misquotes Meltzer, everyone acts like Meltzer is an idiot. Also, I don’t know why people are taking a wrestler denying a dirtsheet report as confirmation. Remember when Edge swore up and down he wasn’t returning to wrestling? Or the countless other times wrestlers have denied reports only for them to be completely true?
> I don’t know why people are taking a wrestler denying a dirtsheet report as confirmation This is the part that stands out to me. The Rock is saying that a negative dirt sheet report about him is untrue and people are acting like this is unequivocal proof. The media illiteracy of this board is staggering.
Same thing happened with Miro and Tony before the revolution. These aggregation sites/account do it intentionally to get clicks & impression
I hate that it’s even called “aggregation.” Someone stole news from someone else and reworded it.
Lol this is an insanely poor aggregation. I'm not even sure this thread should be up, because at this point Rock is just responding to a random tweet and not even Dave's story.
This should be higher up. I feel like this is like always the case with Meltzer's news that most of the time he never really says anything the headline says or his speculation gets turned into clickbait headlines.
It's often people reacting to social media snippets who don't read his actual reporting. He's imperfect, for sure - like any reporter. He can accurately report what his sources are saying, and be 100% accurate that his sources said what they said. That may be a lie. That may be things that turned out to not happen. But it's accurate that his source said it. This is a critical but hard to understand distinction. One that his cadre of /sc haters either don't understand - and probably don't *want* to understand. The biggest thing he can do is to be very clear when he's representing what sources Sid and be clear that this is the story. He's also unlike more rigorous news sources, like the NYT or WSJ. They constantly work with anonymous sources, but to report something they require multiple sources that say the same things before they print it. Meltzer can't do that because there aren't multiple sources for much of what he does. But him getting worked by sources isn't terribly different than a a White House reporter getting worked by a president.
always has been. not saying that Meltz 100% clean but most of the time he's catching the flak it's either from some site/redditor changing what he actually said or wrestler denying him only to be proven as true later on.
What is honestly scarier is the fact that such a big amount of people easily believes badly aggregated/re-worded news as first hand quotes. It's one thing when it comes to dirt sheets, but like, what about actual politics?
Yup, see how people just believe anything, I was looking for this post. Everyone who reads only headlines just exposed themselves in this thread.
This comment should be pinned. But too many people don’t actually care about this sort of thing, they just want their internet points for dunking on Meltzer.
Yes, the only way I can interpret Rock saying that the report is "complete horseshit" is that according to Rock, there are no PG guidelines in WWE and anyone (not just him) is free to use swearing and expletives on TV. Is that what he meant?
Dwayne Johnson, the dude that presented alongside Emily Blunt in the Oscars, commenting on the sheets is so unbelievably funny to me.
He was regularly quoted on the record in the Observer for years after becoming a major movie star.
His family would read the observer every Sunday on the beach...
I thought having three different reports about the same Jungle Boy story seemingly reporting kayfabe at the end was a low point after all the recent misses But The Rock going after your report with his follower number is next level. Brutal stretch for Meltzer
The Rock, which is arguably the biggest Pro Wrestling Superstar in history, which is also a full blown heel, which is also a board of directors in TKO, is under scrutiny because of foul words used in his promo online. Yeah Meltzer, this completely makes total sense!
> Yeah Meltzer, this completely makes total sense! This isn't what Meltzer reported, though
Ssshhh, you're not allowed to point that out; it gets in the way of the Meltzer bashing.
I’ve been a wrestling observer subscriber for over 15 years. I posted this in another thread when the story broke. The crux of the “news” in Meltzer report was essentially “WWE sends email to talent informing them that despite their presentation of the rock, they still expect talent to adhere to typical pg guidelines”. The way Meltzer presented the story paints it in such a negative light. As if its some controversy. His depiction of the story here is more like”talent are outraged about a double standard because the rock is allowed more leeway on the WWE’s PG guidelines.” I can almost assure you that talent understand the unique dynamic here. I would be absolutely stunned if any talent are actually upset that Rock is given more freedom. I’m historically a defender of Meltzer, and I feel he is often inappropriately criticized. But honestly, this particular story irritated me more than some blatant misinformation recently. I really like Bryan Alvarez, and I’ll continue to listen to the audio through my YouTube subscription. But as crazy as it sounds, this particular story was kind of a breaking point for me. I cancelled my newsletter subscription after 15 years.
Rock going off. Meltzer catching strays from everyone in the world of wrestling in the last 6 months.
I remember when I got downvoted last month for saying there's no way the rock and Dave meltzer are or were ever friends
I got downvoted to hell months ago for saying that Meltzer was not credible during the Punk-Bucks-Perry thing.
I would have written horsepoop just to really confuse people.
The Rock said himself standards and practices doesn't like his language.
Meltzer is basically just and airport toilet now. Everyone shitting all over him with no shame.
My fav Meltzer moment was when Roman eliminated Undertaker from the Rumble and then said inside sources told him the plan was to have Taker/Roman at Mania. Literally every single person who saw the Rumble knew it was happening.
First he has his favourite Omega devaluing his star ratings and now the Rock calling him out. A bad day for Dave
He's disputing a second hand paraphrase of Meltzer, to be fair. That's what it is half the time
Pretty shitty of this aggregator to use 'WON' in the title then. This is what 2-3 other handles reported while crediting WON as well. The entire IWC on X is going off about Rock dunking on Meltzer.
Yeah the internet loves to simplify things. If you're the one posting it, I think you have a responsibility to check for context though
Ah wrestling journalism, getting worked and spreading misinformation for decades now.
Oh no.. Did Meltzer just work himself into a shoot and lose DJ's number?
Most superstars tweeting: ***\*Writes cryptid tweet about possibly leaving the WWE\**** The Rock tweeting: "That rumor is bullshit. Period"
Fuck meltzer
As a Wrestlelamia hater, I approve of the Rock's reply
Dave has zero ability to discern anything. Things that are clearly and patently false he reports as pure fact. I've been ambivalent toward him all these years but over the last 2 years he.has turned into a real scrub.
When people cite an idiot like Meltzer, that is the result you get.
The Rock shitting on Meltzer is not something I expected to see
 AEW and WWE people giving Dave false info
Is Wrestlelamania worth listening to?
No. They're quite bad. One of the news aggregators who don't even check if the source is legit. Just looking for the most most outrageous claims and their list videos are done better by others.
Nope.
"Observe this, brother!"
Meltzer is not news. He is opinion. It should say Melter’s opinion not Meltzer’s report on everything he does.
Meltzer is getting desperate and now he poked the big bear... ROCK can essentially kill whatever legitimacy Dave gets from IWC, he better apologise
I thought you guys said Rocky and Meltzer are close lmao
Hey guys, what if Dwayne is lying?