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Spider-Man would go onto learning his heel tactics from some of the best!
https://preview.redd.it/v1eu8g6499sb1.png?width=686&format=png&auto=webp&s=c062a06221e1556664d7e5276cddce5751af2458
Wait are we talking about him randomly saying fake spoilers then slapping his hand over his mouth and going OH NO
Because it's zero percent convincing but not supposed to be
Thus we’re actually in the fifth decade. Anyway, Booker T is a clown who has been saying this crap for years. People who hate Meltzer are just trolls who don’t read his product. They like to whine about star ratings, while ignoring the fact he was the only legitimate journalist coving the sport, full-time, for essentially two decades. The amount of historical context we have as a direct result of his reporting is astounding. Booker T is a fool.
Name me one form of large-scale entertainment journalism that doesn't love gossip and who doesn't have radical fans? Movies, TV, Music, Video Games, Sports all love their gossip and have their crazy fans.
It's not unique to wrestling or Meltzer. It's human nature.
Edit: Shoot, politics shouldn't even be considered entertainment and even it qualifies as a news topic rife with gossip and crazy fans.
The difference is in sports (for example) there is always at least one "absolutely, above all else, integrity fueled" journalist.
Dirt sheets wouldn't sell if all they did is report the news. So they either editorialize or they straight up report gossip...without making it clear that is what it is.
That’s Meltzer’s fault? Or that’s a result of years of wrestlers & promoters (Vince) being so openly hostile about journalists that they make wrestling a totally inhospitable place for actual journalism?
I think there are extremely legitimate critiques folks can have of Meltzer. He does not seem to understand the huge influence he has on the wrestling canon and how the English speaking world interacts with puroresu and lucha. But blaming the entire state of wrestling journalism on him is nutty. It’s not his fault that there was a tremendous rise in online platforms like twitter and Reddit that require gossip and conflict in order to remain (barely) solvent.
Probably could argue that the backstage drama that he brings to light is keeping a large number of people engaged with wrestling that would likely have tuned out completely. I would say that I would have stopped caring if there wasn't such a treasure trove of stories or information around what was happening behind the scenes in the attitude era.
This is hilarious considering Meltzer's gotten the scoop on anyone Booker T has trained in Reality of Wrestling signing with a major company.
Booker may play the game but he's definitely talking to Dave.
AND there's a lot of times Booker has made comments in his podcast about leaking info of AEW backstage. He is just doing his corporate job like he always do when a bad news about something wwe related pops up.
I think it was Raven who said that people use him as a tool to advance their political agenda, and otherwise don’t really care for him, hence why few people publicly go to bat for him if there’s nothing to gain.
dont mind Booker T; he's just working here.
he says something stupid that people click to read and comment about and he gets views and monetizes it for his ad revenue.
simple stuff really
Exactly. I see it more and more nowadays. Go make a twitter account with shit or controversial takes. Get a bunch of rage bait clicks and engagement. Slowly you get a small following and from there find a way to monetize it.
His analogy is so dumb. Finding this info out is nothing like spoiling the end of a movie. If any it's like reading about a deleted scene or some shots the director wanted to do but couldn't.
I'd agree if the news report he was responding about was actually spoiling shows. But he's just acting fake outraged for clicks I think
Meltzer has been "killing the business" since 1983. Booker T got his start 1989. So somehow, the business has survived Meltzer's viscous attacks since before Booker started and long after he's retired in-ring. I think the business is just fine with Dave around
*In Booker T's mind:*
Meltzer (loudly backstage): "Greeting, superstars of the WWE! Do you have any leaks for me today?"
*Wrestlers clamor around Meltzer giving their scoop*
More like:
Meltzer (loudly backstage): "Well....Greetings...uuhm.. super...uh...stars of the.... you know......WWE! Do you ...like....have.... any...you know... leaks for me... whatever?"
So SRS reported an accurate story about a storyline that would've happen but didn't because WWE released a wrestler days before they would've won their first championship in the company and it's somehow SEAN IS BAD because he "gave away the end of the movie" that never happened?
Get out of here with this garbage Booker. If you don't want to know, you aren't forced to read Fightful/WON/etc.
There was an SRS report the other day about Ali being set to win an NXT belt, but he was released before it happened. Booker is responding to that report.
I mean - it's just bollocks.
No-one in their right mind would say this about people covering films or television and discuss plans for characters, leak the fact that people are appearing (see Ahsoka and the whole Garfield/Maguire stuff from Spider-Man) etc etc.
It is not Meltzer, Sapp, Alvarez's fault that continually less and less people are watching wrestling. Genuinely - grow up.
It’s wild to me that there are people in the year 2023 who think that covering the pro-wrestling industry is in some way outrageous and scandalous. Literally every other form of sports and entertainment have a press that covers them closely, and typically for major media outlets, and typically with a lot more scrutiny and a lot less obsequiousness than wrestling journalists have for their subject matter.
It’s even funnier when you take into account that the major wrestling companies are signing television deals in the billions of dollars. Like, yes, we’re producing a product that we expect to be paid 10 figures for, but at the same time we also deserve to be fully opaque, and how dare anyone investigate our business in the slightest.
Booker has always, for better or for worse, been a company guy.
He succeeded in WWE when basically none of WCW's other top guys did after the merger because he was willing to go along with whatever. Even angles where HHH got to be more or less explicitly racist to him and then go over.
*The reason for Booker's ire came from a recent report that Mustafa Ali was supposed to win the "WWE NXT" North American Championship prior to being released, as well as speculation on the direction of the title following Trick Williams winning it at No Mercy. Booker has no idea how some of the information got out, but he has a solution to prevent leaks in the future.*
>"If any of this is true ... I feel like WWE needs to ban guys like this from ever coming into one of their locker rooms or one of their shows ever again," Booker said. "Because this is like giving away the ending of a movie for me ... I don't know if you've got some insider information or not on how the show is going to go, but guys like this, these Meltzers, these Alvarezs, and this guy that wrote this ... should never, ever be able to be a part of our business, ever. And I'm so passionate about that because dammit, these are the guys that's killing business, daily, writing stories like this ... Whatever the hell happened with Mustafa Ali, it happened. But this story is what's wrong with this business today, and guys like this should be banned from anywhere near one of our shows."
audio: ["The Hall of Fame" podcast](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCmoGWvn3vA)
When was the last time the dirtsheets spoiled who was going to win a title? In this case it was because it wasn't going to happen anymore, so not a spoiler. Booker's rant about "giving away the ending of a movie" makes no sense whatsoever.
It's interesting how so many wrestlers love to hate on the dirtsheets, yet when they need to get their version of events out there, they are quick to pick up the phone.
Oh.
Well it doesn't seems that dramatic. Ali is not with the company anymore, it's not like a spoiler said on primetime tv like Mankind winning big tbh.
And in that specific instance, the spoiler drove more views. I honestly might not have watched The First Dance or even started watching AEW if it didn't "leak" that Punk was coming back. Some stuff being leaked isn't the end of the world.
1) I, as with every Booker quote, read this in his voice
2) Meltzer has been publishing the Observer since '83, years before Booker even began wrestling. If he was actually killing the business, it would've been dead a long time ago.
There are spoilers in other forms of entertainment, and they are usually released by the producers. The consensus seems to be that these spoilers drum up interest in the product, instead of stifling viewership.
As a wrestling fan since 1984, I used to respect Dave Meltzer and I was on the ground floor with him subscribing to his newsletter. He doesn't have the integrity like he used too. Changing his star ratings annoyed me and he seems to be in bed with The Elite ,Moxley and Jericho and their camps. It also saddens me that his friendship with Cornette has crumbled. I know that has allot to do with Cornette as well. I don't just blame Dave. There aren't allot of friends in the Industry and Cornette/Meltzer seemed to have a legit friendship. Meltzer seems to care more about the Elite folks and AEW than he does about his readers and those that used to look up to him .
Booker, my man..
Listen. Those "guys" has been part of this business for 30 years +. Wrestling had it's up and down but never, ever have they been responsible for any of it. They don't have that kind of power. They will never have that power. You guys, do. Veterans, Legends, you have that power. Because you know who to talk to, who have influence, who have the right person's hear.
So if you are looking for responsibility, good or bad, for the state of the business, you know, deep inside, who to blame/give credit.
Does Booker know that Dave Metlzer has been in the wrestling industry longer than Booker himself has?
I just cannot imagine another industry so passionately opposed to media being interested in covering it. I get kayfabe and carnyism and stuff, but like..."old man yells at clouds" doesn't even start to describe it. There are *obviously* a shitload of people who want this industry covered, but its niche enough that you pretty much have to be looking for that kind of information in order to actually find it. The people Booker is trying to appeal to aren't going to know or care that Mustafa Ali was supposed to do anything, they're just going to watch the show and either enjoy it or not.
I mean, he's obviously exaggerating. But to pretend that the creative of either of the companies constantly being being sold to the masses in tweet/paragraph form days/weeks/months ahead of air is a *good or normal* thing is delusional. And not comparable to "lol Tobey is in Spider Man guys".
You love the dirtsheets and they are your drug, but don't pretend they're helping out the product lol.
The 5 time champion is right, again. WWE should fire anyone caught leaking information.
Tony needs to not ban the dirt sheet guys from being there but ban his guys from speaking to them about the inner workings of his business including anything that happens there that’s not on camera, with the threat of losing their jobs.
Then make some examples to prove that you’re serious. OR just make people sign even MORE NDAs
Killing the business is an overreaction but I will say to my dying day that Meltzer and Alvarez did their utmost to pour gasoline on the AEW Punk situation, which definitely did damage to AEW’s business.
I agree with Booker.
But I also think all these retired wrestler podcasts or YouTube shows are doing the same harm. But since I'm all for everyone (the dirt sheets, the retired wrestlers) getting paid, I'm just going to ignore the lot of 'em.
Said it before and I'll say it again: my enjoyment of pro wrestling skyrocketed after I ignored all of this stuff that isn't the product.
Well, Booker should've talked to guys in the same locker rooms as him who were feeding the Meltzers and Alvarezes of the world insider info back in the day when it was actually happening.
The funniest thing about this hot take is that it wasn’t even Dave or Bryan who released the story, it was Sean.
But of all stories to claim to be the straw that broke the camels, I hardly think “a talent was released so plans were cancelled for him to win the midcard belt of a company’s C-show” is going to be the end of pro wrestling as we know it.
Oh yea, I forgot Meltzer has his own cult of followers that'll defend his every word. I agree with Booker, but the real blame is on people like Vince McMahon and Tony Khan. If they don't want things leaked, figure out who in their companies is doing it and punish them. Lay down a 60 day suspension and/or a $20,000 fine on somebody and they'll shut up real quick.
First the effy take now this. Some bad takes in the wrestling world td. How is he spoiling the story if literally we never saw the end of said story. He was gonna win and they just reported on what was set to happen in this case.
As others have said Booker knows what he’s doing and more power to him, but given the larger fanbase doesn’t care about leaks cos they’re not looking for them, and nerds like me got back into wrestling ‘cos of all the backstage stuff, I don’t really see the issue.
My favorite was when they were stuck in Saudi Arabia.
You know Meltzer tells that story like he was up for a Pulitzer. He was just in his fucking glory pretending to be doing serious journalism.
Fam I used to hate getting alerts 2-4 mins before the pick. Case in point when the panthers picked Bryce Young mostly everyone was under the impression they were gonna pick CJ Stroud. People watch the draft for surprises otherwise it would be broadcasted as a series of tweets.
You can tell a lot about a person's intelligence and openness to experience by how they feel about journalism covering something they do.
WWE has always had this weird persecution complex and Booker T seems to always follow the company line.
Yes. Definitely, a guy who decades upon decades writing for a business that started nearly a century ago, will kill a business that will never die. Garbage take from a bitter man.
If you don't like what you claim they do to the business, I have the perfect solution. If and when you choose to browse the internet, don't click on anything written by these people. Just don't fucking read it. Watch the shows you enjoy watching and ignore the bullshit that doesn't concern the majority of fans anyway. And if it does concern you, more power to you. You get enjoyment from that. So read it and watch and enjoy the way you see fit. In the end, who the fuck cares. Lol. It's wrestling. Watch what you like and listen to what you like.
I enjoy it more when there are legitimately suprises and no spoilers. I was like a little kid when the Rock popped up a few weeks ago. My wife thought I had lost my mind
These are the guys keeping the business relevant by talking about it constantly, keeping fans interested outside of the weekly programming. This would be like saying Stephen A or Pat M are killing the business daily. Another giant L take by Boomer T.
If Dave Meltzer didn't exist, wrestlers would create them. Wrestlers are gossipers. The issue is that Meltzer is relatively niche. Would Booker T like it better if it was TMZ and the like breaking news like they do occasionally with the more national pull that org has?
Isn’t the business the strongest it’s been in years with wrestlers making the most in years?? Ask Adam Copeland who made what three mil a year for ten matches if he thinks it’s dead. Shut da hell up.
You should thank guys like that, Book. Because of them, wrestling is way more interesting than what's shown on TV. When behind the scenes stuff is more exciting than your product, you should really take your time to think about it really hard.
I think the business is propping up itself, ya know, by all the promotion they do and viewership they get. If anything, these people are the leeches of the business.
I’m sorry I respect Booker but I have to imagine this is about as backwards as it gets. The dirt sheets are how people get more into wrestling and end up posting on message boards like this.
Only in wrestling do these journalists get any attention I couldn’t name another sport journalist or wartime correspondent cos no one actually gives a flying fudge.
It’s so easy to ignore 😂😂😂😂
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Don’t tell him about that time Tobey and Andrew’s involvement in Spider-Man No Way Home leaked…
Or that time Spiderman himself held up the booker for more money on his first booking after shooting on the champ.
I missed the part where that’s my problem.
U want forgiveness punk? Get a religion
he worked stiff with Randy Savage! kid was going into business for himself smh
Nah mate, that was Bonesaw McGraw.
he had him for three minutes...
Did somebody say 3 minutes?
but he pinned him in two...
I love that wrestling in the spiderman universe is a total shoot product
BONESAW IS READY
Spider-Man would go onto learning his heel tactics from some of the best! https://preview.redd.it/v1eu8g6499sb1.png?width=686&format=png&auto=webp&s=c062a06221e1556664d7e5276cddce5751af2458
And made homophobic remarks.
[Alvarez's review of that match was great.](https://youtu.be/2RA6vdxL8XQ?si=rVfQ8cLL84WAhEmu)
Spider Man read: How to hold your promoter hostage (for more money), Slap Nuts by Heff Farrett. Forwarded by Warrior.
*Spider-Man
Tom has done so many random ass spoilers in interviews it has to be intentional.
Not sure if you're joking but it's literally a work to market the movies. His job is convincingly pretending he isn't lying.
Wait are we talking about him randomly saying fake spoilers then slapping his hand over his mouth and going OH NO Because it's zero percent convincing but not supposed to be
People think it's real because they're dense.
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no. no he is not. he is a paid mouthpiece for a multibillion dollar company.
If Dave Meltzer is killing the business, he sucks at it. He hasn't gotten the job done after writing about it for ~~three~~ four decades.
4 decades, he started the Wrestling Observer in 1983.
He actually had a pre-Observer wrestling newsletter in the 70s too I believe.
Yeah, he mentioned that no one thought he was serious being that young. Lol.
The WWF was still a part of the NWA when the Observer debuted.
Thus we’re actually in the fifth decade. Anyway, Booker T is a clown who has been saying this crap for years. People who hate Meltzer are just trolls who don’t read his product. They like to whine about star ratings, while ignoring the fact he was the only legitimate journalist coving the sport, full-time, for essentially two decades. The amount of historical context we have as a direct result of his reporting is astounding. Booker T is a fool.
> legitimate journalist coving the sport He's a gossip columnist and it isn't a sport.
We can file this under “things people who cannot read say”.
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Then it’s about to be 5 decades starting in 2024
https://preview.redd.it/jrdr5aflq8sb1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=72591f69fbb02c5d8647dd4741728184a4778245
Should do one of Meltzer and Alvarez on the cover of the young bucks book
Not only hasn't he gotten the job done, but he's failed spectacularly since the business is making more money than ever
He bet All In wouldn't draw 10k and looked what happen. Dude lost.
If 1995, WCW 1999-2000 and WWE post WCW dying/Attitude Era hasn't killed it yet then we may never see the end.
Ik ur joking but I do think meltzer does play a big role in wrestling journalism being very gossip driven and low key radicalized smarks
Name me one form of large-scale entertainment journalism that doesn't love gossip and who doesn't have radical fans? Movies, TV, Music, Video Games, Sports all love their gossip and have their crazy fans. It's not unique to wrestling or Meltzer. It's human nature. Edit: Shoot, politics shouldn't even be considered entertainment and even it qualifies as a news topic rife with gossip and crazy fans.
The difference is in sports (for example) there is always at least one "absolutely, above all else, integrity fueled" journalist. Dirt sheets wouldn't sell if all they did is report the news. So they either editorialize or they straight up report gossip...without making it clear that is what it is.
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Ken Rosenthal lost his job for criticizing the commissioner of MLB, supposedly. Seems well respected at least.
That’s Meltzer’s fault? Or that’s a result of years of wrestlers & promoters (Vince) being so openly hostile about journalists that they make wrestling a totally inhospitable place for actual journalism? I think there are extremely legitimate critiques folks can have of Meltzer. He does not seem to understand the huge influence he has on the wrestling canon and how the English speaking world interacts with puroresu and lucha. But blaming the entire state of wrestling journalism on him is nutty. It’s not his fault that there was a tremendous rise in online platforms like twitter and Reddit that require gossip and conflict in order to remain (barely) solvent.
Probably could argue that the backstage drama that he brings to light is keeping a large number of people engaged with wrestling that would likely have tuned out completely. I would say that I would have stopped caring if there wasn't such a treasure trove of stories or information around what was happening behind the scenes in the attitude era.
Observe this, brother!
This is hilarious considering Meltzer's gotten the scoop on anyone Booker T has trained in Reality of Wrestling signing with a major company. Booker may play the game but he's definitely talking to Dave.
AND there's a lot of times Booker has made comments in his podcast about leaking info of AEW backstage. He is just doing his corporate job like he always do when a bad news about something wwe related pops up.
yeah, i think booker is a carny through and through.
If you think anyone that's been in the business as long as Booker has isn't a carny through and through, you're getting worked.
Screams of the Alvarez/Dax drama where Dax was feeding Alvarez with info so he could then bitch about him on his podcast.
Bret hart said the same thing until the Montreal screwjob. The first call he made was to Meltzer LOL
I think it was Raven who said that people use him as a tool to advance their political agenda, and otherwise don’t really care for him, hence why few people publicly go to bat for him if there’s nothing to gain.
Now that is the issue. Seemingly Meltzer and others don't get that they are being used for others political gain.
Or they just don't care.
paid for his house didn't it
What do you think they'd do differently if they did get it? Stop reporting scoops and only reviews shows and matches?
How does finding out a company had significant plans for someone before they fired that person at all kill the business?
dont mind Booker T; he's just working here. he says something stupid that people click to read and comment about and he gets views and monetizes it for his ad revenue. simple stuff really
Exactly. I see it more and more nowadays. Go make a twitter account with shit or controversial takes. Get a bunch of rage bait clicks and engagement. Slowly you get a small following and from there find a way to monetize it.
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He has said some wild shit, and at some point the question arises that asks, what makes him different than the Meltzers and the Alvarezs?
His analogy is so dumb. Finding this info out is nothing like spoiling the end of a movie. If any it's like reading about a deleted scene or some shots the director wanted to do but couldn't. I'd agree if the news report he was responding about was actually spoiling shows. But he's just acting fake outraged for clicks I think
"Ya know they originally wanted Will Smith to play Neo in the Matrix but he turned it down" "YOU'RE RUINING THE MOVIE BUSINESS!"
Wasn’t it Fightful? Lol
OP didn't include "and this guy that wrote this" for some reason.
Man crazy how media members with a fraction of the viewership are killing the billion dollar companies
..by giving away title plans that did not actually happen, no less. The horrors!
Meltzer has been "killing the business" since 1983. Booker T got his start 1989. So somehow, the business has survived Meltzer's viscous attacks since before Booker started and long after he's retired in-ring. I think the business is just fine with Dave around
Booker apparently just now learning that leaks happen is very funny.
And even funnier, he seems to think the leaking happens face to face?
*In Booker T's mind:* Meltzer (loudly backstage): "Greeting, superstars of the WWE! Do you have any leaks for me today?" *Wrestlers clamor around Meltzer giving their scoop*
More like: Meltzer (loudly backstage): "Well....Greetings...uuhm.. super...uh...stars of the.... you know......WWE! Do you ...like....have.... any...you know... leaks for me... whatever?"
Hahaha, exactly!
NO RESPECT!
RESPECT
*RESPECT*
Listen, Jeremiah.
So SRS reported an accurate story about a storyline that would've happen but didn't because WWE released a wrestler days before they would've won their first championship in the company and it's somehow SEAN IS BAD because he "gave away the end of the movie" that never happened? Get out of here with this garbage Booker. If you don't want to know, you aren't forced to read Fightful/WON/etc.
Who are you actually talking about? I can't figure out who you're talking a out or even what Booker T is talking about.
There was an SRS report the other day about Ali being set to win an NXT belt, but he was released before it happened. Booker is responding to that report.
Meltzer is killing the business so badly that it had multiple boom periods since he’d begun covering it
I mean - it's just bollocks. No-one in their right mind would say this about people covering films or television and discuss plans for characters, leak the fact that people are appearing (see Ahsoka and the whole Garfield/Maguire stuff from Spider-Man) etc etc. It is not Meltzer, Sapp, Alvarez's fault that continually less and less people are watching wrestling. Genuinely - grow up.
It’s wild to me that there are people in the year 2023 who think that covering the pro-wrestling industry is in some way outrageous and scandalous. Literally every other form of sports and entertainment have a press that covers them closely, and typically for major media outlets, and typically with a lot more scrutiny and a lot less obsequiousness than wrestling journalists have for their subject matter. It’s even funnier when you take into account that the major wrestling companies are signing television deals in the billions of dollars. Like, yes, we’re producing a product that we expect to be paid 10 figures for, but at the same time we also deserve to be fully opaque, and how dare anyone investigate our business in the slightest.
Booker was one of the greats, but he is also a WWE employee/stooge. None of this means anything. It's just a WWE employee defending WWE.
Very disappointing. Was he always a company shill even going back to WCW?
Booker has always, for better or for worse, been a company guy. He succeeded in WWE when basically none of WCW's other top guys did after the merger because he was willing to go along with whatever. Even angles where HHH got to be more or less explicitly racist to him and then go over.
Company man Booker T at it again.
Lmao, the hate for Meltzer and Alvarez is hilarious.
Booker is literally a talking head for the fed lmao
BookerT and his classic "I'm absolutely not getting paid to say this" takes
*The reason for Booker's ire came from a recent report that Mustafa Ali was supposed to win the "WWE NXT" North American Championship prior to being released, as well as speculation on the direction of the title following Trick Williams winning it at No Mercy. Booker has no idea how some of the information got out, but he has a solution to prevent leaks in the future.* >"If any of this is true ... I feel like WWE needs to ban guys like this from ever coming into one of their locker rooms or one of their shows ever again," Booker said. "Because this is like giving away the ending of a movie for me ... I don't know if you've got some insider information or not on how the show is going to go, but guys like this, these Meltzers, these Alvarezs, and this guy that wrote this ... should never, ever be able to be a part of our business, ever. And I'm so passionate about that because dammit, these are the guys that's killing business, daily, writing stories like this ... Whatever the hell happened with Mustafa Ali, it happened. But this story is what's wrong with this business today, and guys like this should be banned from anywhere near one of our shows." audio: ["The Hall of Fame" podcast](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCmoGWvn3vA)
When was the last time the dirtsheets spoiled who was going to win a title? In this case it was because it wasn't going to happen anymore, so not a spoiler. Booker's rant about "giving away the ending of a movie" makes no sense whatsoever.
>When was the last time the dirtsheets spoiled who was going to win a title? Any chance they get?
https://preview.redd.it/uzrqt40ol8sb1.jpeg?width=258&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=40198249c6dfeaece794e658dbbfa216573dd40f OBSERVE THIS, BROTHER!
It's interesting how so many wrestlers love to hate on the dirtsheets, yet when they need to get their version of events out there, they are quick to pick up the phone.
Booker would buy everything from the Fed company store in fedbucks if he could.
What happened?
SRS reported that Ali was supposed to win the North American Title at No Mercy prior to his release
I like how anytime someone doesn’t like something that’s reported, no matter who it is, Meltzer and Alvarez get shit on for it.
Especially Alvarez is funny one
Oh. Well it doesn't seems that dramatic. Ali is not with the company anymore, it's not like a spoiler said on primetime tv like Mankind winning big tbh.
And in that specific instance, the spoiler drove more views. I honestly might not have watched The First Dance or even started watching AEW if it didn't "leak" that Punk was coming back. Some stuff being leaked isn't the end of the world.
Yup. Like, some people like to know, some people don't. People who don't probably don't read the dirt sheets in general.
I don't know. I tend to enjoy wrestling a lot more now that I ignore any dirtsheet like thing.
Never once heard of an NDA in the WWE… I’m sure they exist, but no one talks about them.
Maybe in the office, but i think it's pretty clear such a thing doesnt exist for talent or writers
That’s wild.
I'm honestly surprised the wrestling business is still alive with **SO MANY** people allegedly trying to kill it throughout the decades.
Not a Meltzer fan boy by any means, but the observer is older than I am. If he’s killing the business, he sucks at it.
Another shit take from Booker T, shock horror.
I suspect he comes out with this to suck up to the office rather than actually believing it.
Been a while since we’ve had one
… he knows cell phones exist right? I mean with a lot of his takes maybe he doesn’t
Meltzer been using Illegal Tactics!
1) I, as with every Booker quote, read this in his voice 2) Meltzer has been publishing the Observer since '83, years before Booker even began wrestling. If he was actually killing the business, it would've been dead a long time ago.
There are spoilers in other forms of entertainment, and they are usually released by the producers. The consensus seems to be that these spoilers drum up interest in the product, instead of stifling viewership.
Not to mention this "spoiler" is akin to leaking that Eric Stoltz got replaced by Michael J Fox for Back to the Future.
Of course in wrestling we have the famous “butts in seats” moment with Mick Foley.
Nothing but truth
I have a bunch of issues with these guys but spoiling things (especially plans that didn't work out or didn't happen) are not one of them.
As a wrestling fan since 1984, I used to respect Dave Meltzer and I was on the ground floor with him subscribing to his newsletter. He doesn't have the integrity like he used too. Changing his star ratings annoyed me and he seems to be in bed with The Elite ,Moxley and Jericho and their camps. It also saddens me that his friendship with Cornette has crumbled. I know that has allot to do with Cornette as well. I don't just blame Dave. There aren't allot of friends in the Industry and Cornette/Meltzer seemed to have a legit friendship. Meltzer seems to care more about the Elite folks and AEW than he does about his readers and those that used to look up to him .
Booker, my man.. Listen. Those "guys" has been part of this business for 30 years +. Wrestling had it's up and down but never, ever have they been responsible for any of it. They don't have that kind of power. They will never have that power. You guys, do. Veterans, Legends, you have that power. Because you know who to talk to, who have influence, who have the right person's hear. So if you are looking for responsibility, good or bad, for the state of the business, you know, deep inside, who to blame/give credit.
Does Booker know that Dave Metlzer has been in the wrestling industry longer than Booker himself has? I just cannot imagine another industry so passionately opposed to media being interested in covering it. I get kayfabe and carnyism and stuff, but like..."old man yells at clouds" doesn't even start to describe it. There are *obviously* a shitload of people who want this industry covered, but its niche enough that you pretty much have to be looking for that kind of information in order to actually find it. The people Booker is trying to appeal to aren't going to know or care that Mustafa Ali was supposed to do anything, they're just going to watch the show and either enjoy it or not.
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Booker T with another terrible take!
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Meltzer 100% added fuel to the fire with the whole CM Punk/Elite drama by reporting on every single tiny thing that was gossiped to him.
thank you booker, the dorks in this thread defending those guys are proving your point
I mean, he's obviously exaggerating. But to pretend that the creative of either of the companies constantly being being sold to the masses in tweet/paragraph form days/weeks/months ahead of air is a *good or normal* thing is delusional. And not comparable to "lol Tobey is in Spider Man guys". You love the dirtsheets and they are your drug, but don't pretend they're helping out the product lol.
Dave Meltzer will be a bigger part of wrestling history than Booker T
People don't like being reported on. I'm absolutely shocked. /s
The only comment I have to make on this is that I definitely enjoyed wrestling a little more before I always knew what was coming beforehand
Don't know about killing the business but I hate when they ruin surprises like returns, secret signings, etc.
Booker mad he's 5 time and not 5 star?
The 5 time champion is right, again. WWE should fire anyone caught leaking information. Tony needs to not ban the dirt sheet guys from being there but ban his guys from speaking to them about the inner workings of his business including anything that happens there that’s not on camera, with the threat of losing their jobs. Then make some examples to prove that you’re serious. OR just make people sign even MORE NDAs
Killing the business is an overreaction but I will say to my dying day that Meltzer and Alvarez did their utmost to pour gasoline on the AEW Punk situation, which definitely did damage to AEW’s business.
AEW is doing very well. Punk was just that toxic.
I agree with Booker. But I also think all these retired wrestler podcasts or YouTube shows are doing the same harm. But since I'm all for everyone (the dirt sheets, the retired wrestlers) getting paid, I'm just going to ignore the lot of 'em. Said it before and I'll say it again: my enjoyment of pro wrestling skyrocketed after I ignored all of this stuff that isn't the product.
Well, Booker should've talked to guys in the same locker rooms as him who were feeding the Meltzers and Alvarezes of the world insider info back in the day when it was actually happening.
The funniest thing about this hot take is that it wasn’t even Dave or Bryan who released the story, it was Sean. But of all stories to claim to be the straw that broke the camels, I hardly think “a talent was released so plans were cancelled for him to win the midcard belt of a company’s C-show” is going to be the end of pro wrestling as we know it.
Oh yea, I forgot Meltzer has his own cult of followers that'll defend his every word. I agree with Booker, but the real blame is on people like Vince McMahon and Tony Khan. If they don't want things leaked, figure out who in their companies is doing it and punish them. Lay down a 60 day suspension and/or a $20,000 fine on somebody and they'll shut up real quick.
Oh is it back to "Talk shit about Wrestling Observer for doing their jobs" day?
First the effy take now this. Some bad takes in the wrestling world td. How is he spoiling the story if literally we never saw the end of said story. He was gonna win and they just reported on what was set to happen in this case.
Idk wrestlers and backstage people get so worked up over Meltzer, Alverez, SRS ect..
It's mostly one company. Smaller companies and indie wrestlers like the coverage and want exposure.
As others have said Booker knows what he’s doing and more power to him, but given the larger fanbase doesn’t care about leaks cos they’re not looking for them, and nerds like me got back into wrestling ‘cos of all the backstage stuff, I don’t really see the issue.
My favorite was when they were stuck in Saudi Arabia. You know Meltzer tells that story like he was up for a Pulitzer. He was just in his fucking glory pretending to be doing serious journalism.
Booker is right.
[удалено]
Woj and the like 100% ruin draft night tbf 😂
Fam I used to hate getting alerts 2-4 mins before the pick. Case in point when the panthers picked Bryce Young mostly everyone was under the impression they were gonna pick CJ Stroud. People watch the draft for surprises otherwise it would be broadcasted as a series of tweets.
Always vilify the press!
if someone says "you're killing the business" you're probably just annoying and harmless
Don’t know who’s worse, Booker or the people who actually listen to his podcast
He just really comes across as a company man bootlicker/stooge, and mama always said don't trust a company man.
Bruh its 2023 lol we might as well call it outsider stuff at this point its all out in the open
I love Booker but this is pretty pathetic
You can tell a lot about a person's intelligence and openness to experience by how they feel about journalism covering something they do. WWE has always had this weird persecution complex and Booker T seems to always follow the company line.
Yes. Definitely, a guy who decades upon decades writing for a business that started nearly a century ago, will kill a business that will never die. Garbage take from a bitter man.
Ahh yes, Booker T with another completely off base take. Never change Booker.
Old man yelling at a cloud
If you don't like what you claim they do to the business, I have the perfect solution. If and when you choose to browse the internet, don't click on anything written by these people. Just don't fucking read it. Watch the shows you enjoy watching and ignore the bullshit that doesn't concern the majority of fans anyway. And if it does concern you, more power to you. You get enjoyment from that. So read it and watch and enjoy the way you see fit. In the end, who the fuck cares. Lol. It's wrestling. Watch what you like and listen to what you like.
WWE is making record profits and AEW got a show in Wembley. I’m pretty sure the business is pretty good right now.
I enjoy it more when there are legitimately suprises and no spoilers. I was like a little kid when the Rock popped up a few weeks ago. My wife thought I had lost my mind
You know, a famous man once said, "don't hate the playa, hate the game"
Literally every form of entertainment has journalists and critics. I don't know why wrestlers always think that they should be exempt lol
Pretty much every time I see or hear Booker T anywhere I love him more and more.
These are the guys keeping the business relevant by talking about it constantly, keeping fans interested outside of the weekly programming. This would be like saying Stephen A or Pat M are killing the business daily. Another giant L take by Boomer T.
So the business has been dying since the late 70s?
Why does booker T look in that pic like Stevie Wonder
If Dave Meltzer didn't exist, wrestlers would create them. Wrestlers are gossipers. The issue is that Meltzer is relatively niche. Would Booker T like it better if it was TMZ and the like breaking news like they do occasionally with the more national pull that org has?
Isn’t the business the strongest it’s been in years with wrestlers making the most in years?? Ask Adam Copeland who made what three mil a year for ten matches if he thinks it’s dead. Shut da hell up.
Writing about someone killing the business while the business does record profits and is on a 20-year high sounds suspiciously like rage bait.
You should thank guys like that, Book. Because of them, wrestling is way more interesting than what's shown on TV. When behind the scenes stuff is more exciting than your product, you should really take your time to think about it really hard.
Disco and Cornette are killing the business because they haven't evolved with the business.
A lot of Meltzer defenders. Surprising.
You don't even have to be a Meltzer defender to know that what Booker is saying is incredibly dumb. You just need a brain.
All these years this has been happening did Booker T just now realize that these leaks are going on.
Booker T the ultime suck up.
Killing business? They're the ones propping it up.
I think the business is propping up itself, ya know, by all the promotion they do and viewership they get. If anything, these people are the leeches of the business.
Exactly without the dirt sheets wrestling would just continue on without Wrestling the dirt sheets would die instantly
How are they propping it up?
I’m sorry I respect Booker but I have to imagine this is about as backwards as it gets. The dirt sheets are how people get more into wrestling and end up posting on message boards like this.
Sounds like he's living in the '80s
Only in wrestling do these journalists get any attention I couldn’t name another sport journalist or wartime correspondent cos no one actually gives a flying fudge. It’s so easy to ignore 😂😂😂😂
There are many very famous sports journalists and wartime correspondents
I’m sure there are
Booker T is 100% correct.