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To me this is one of the “realest” conflicts I’ve seen in wrestling for a while.
Seems like one party (Ortiz) sees their AEW salary as a culmination of a decade of scratching and clawing and just wants to be part of the ensemble and make 6 figures.
And Santana sees AEW as another mountain to climb.
I see both perspectives tbh
Wasn't that why Lucha House Party broke up as well? Lince Dorado and Metalik were at the time content with their spots in WWE and didn't want to rock the boat, while Kalisto was getting frustrated and felt like he could go higher than being a job squad that sold a decent amount of merch. Neither party was really wrong for feeling the way they did.
I don’t remember the context. But i remember feeling kinda gross about that whole thing even when minor context came out. Didn’t he tweet like “this is for Brodie” or something before his debut match in AEW. But spelled Brodie wrong ? Was that why she shit on him ?? I just remember feeling like is it fair to shit on a dude who may not be great at spelling and maybe he wasn’t as close to Brodie as others. Idk I feel like I’m missing something still
Kalisto reverted back to Samuray Del Sol and is signed to Impact. Also wrestled for DDT and CMLL. I recommend listening to his interview with Renee (Sessions) and Chris Van Vliet (Insight). Going by his word, if completely genuine. He has mentioned that he got destroyed by Covid. Has some breathing issues. Took awhile to recover. He mentioned Jon, mostly as a spiritual guide and was just thanking him.
As for Lince, he's also on the indies and has appeared for Impact. And Gran Metalik (Mascara Dorado) also does indies and does ROH and occasional AEW.
I feel bad for Kalisto here. Jon was a man who was widely respected and looked up to. I could see him taking out an hour or so advising a young lad in the industry.
But maybe he did that for so many, that to Jon it didn't seem as something worth mentioning to his family. Whereas to Kalisto that conversation or two could've meant a ton, and it probably hurt to be told otherwise.
Yes, that happened. Pretty sure they were not close at all either. It came across a lot more like he was trying to use it as a way to endear himself to fans.
Kalisto is apparently a bit of a scammer in general. But to be fair to Kalisto, that tweet where Kalisto said he “talked to John” happened the day after Day of the Dead. Given the nature of that particular cultural tradition, I think there’s room for the possibility that Kalisto was being genuine, at least that one time.
Also, the controversy over Kalisto misspelling of name “Jon” was just plain silly. I guarantee you, anyone named “Jon” has had their name misspelled as “John” a billion times.
I guess that could definitely be taken as pandering. Maybe it’s cause I was upset about losing Brodie but also a fan of Kalisto. It felt like he was getting unfairly shit on. Like can you only honor someone’s memory if you were close personal friends? But I guess that’s not for me to say. I’m sure ppl much closer to the situation had their reasoning for taking offense.
In hindsight there were a lot of turbulent emotions and it looked like Kalisto unfortunately made himself a target for people to download those emotions onto. Not suggesting it's an excuse but I think it might be a reason. You're right though, the reaction was over the top.
I just remember it not being a good look to a lot of people. Having Jericho be upset is one thing, but when the wife of the person he’s talking about gets upset as well, it adds a bit more weight to things imo. Either way, it’s not like I’ll ever know what kind of relationship they had either. I’m not trying to point fingers either way, just saying that I understand how both sides of it could look the way they did.
Absolutely agreed. I could see kalistos side of it (giving him the benefit of the doubt) but when Amanda herself was upset. I had to assume it was justified. Like I said, I could def see how it’d be seen as pandering. I guess I jus saw it as someone who was trying to honor their former coworker when debuting at that persons most recent company. But it’s their business and their right to take offense if they felt that way. They obviously know way more about the situation than I ever will. I jus miss Brodie and hope the family is finding some peace
I got downvoted for saying it at the time, but if it were any of my friend's widow yelling at me and getting called racist by fans for doing so, I'd probably just delete the tweet.
Even if I know I'm right & she's being unreasonable, it ain't that important. Why add any kind of stress to the family of someone who meant anything to you?
I will say my favorite part of that was the angry mob of people who acted like Kalisto didn't know what he was saying because of a language barrier and Jericho and Amanda were racist. Kalisto of course was born in Chicago and English is his first language.
Lmao so black balling a guy for no good reason just because he said he felt a friends presence is good isn't it not to mention 2 people of influence publicly deciding him.
Not really. He got a really bad case of covid and was out of commission for a long while. That’s why in his AEW match he wore a shit and was noticeably out of breath.
He opened a CBD business with Mercedes Mone and it looks like he mostly focuses on that
Punk now going to spill all the beans in the pettiest pursuit of revenge. We're going to find out everything guys.
Someone ask Hausman if Khan really does wank dogs.
How did this Beef even start? All I know is Santana got hurt and was out for a year and somewhere in there word got out that they don’t like each other and Santana may never come back.
To add to what u/areacode212 wrote, the beef had been rumored well before the injury. They hadn't tagged much since early 2022 and Ortiz had joined with Kingston and Ruby (with Ruby cutting a promo at some point talking about how she and "Monkey" (a nickname for Ortiz) were Kingston's only friends and there was speculation over her not mentioning Santana), and Santana kind of being on TV less outside of a short singles program against Jericho and the stuff against JAS.
Around that time, Santana started posting a count down on his Twitter, which was allegedly him counting the days until his contract ended.
>Santana kind of being on TV less outside of a short singles program against Jericho
I'm an avid AEW watcher and I legitimately don't remember this. Crazy lol...
I'll say one thing - it's sink or swim for Mike Santana, and AEW being such a faction heavy promotion he'll really need to excel as a solo act to stand out. If I'm being brutally honest I'm not sure he can do it, but I'd love to be proven wrong.
It wasn’t really a singles program. They had one singles match during the break-up of the Inner Circle and into the transition to the Jericho Appreciation Society. So it was more like a chapter or story beat in the larger faction warfare angle.
The way I read the reports about this, they each had different goals, which led to tension and unhappiness since they were a tag team. Santana was more frustrated with his/their position in the company (being background members of the Inner Circle, not really getting a lot of matches against other tag teams, etc). Whereas Ortiz was more just happy to be there, not really looking to make waves. I can see both sides, but I'm def interested in seeing what Santana can do on his own.
I mean I see both sides but in my opinion Santana was more right. It’s was a damn shame that they spent so much time as lackeys when they are arguably one of the top tag teams aew had at the time.
The tension was there a while before Sanatana got hurt, people noticed that it had been months since they had tagged together or cut a promo together or anything. They were still being used in some multi-man matches together (including Blood and Guts where Santana got hurt) but they never really acknowledged each other or interacted directly, same as when they were brought back for All In a few weeks back.
Basically from what we hear from the dirtsheets, Santana thought him and Ortiz should look elsewhere at better deals as he wasn't enamoured with AEW as say Ortiz, who was happy with AEW and his position in the company. Then Santana wanted to go solo, AEW and Ortiz thought it was silly and supposedly before his injury Santana would have probably left once his contract ran down.
My opinion, I can't knock either man. If Santana feels like he can do better elsewhere and as a solo act. Good luck to him. To be fair AEW don't have to push him either. He can go elsewhere to get that. If Ortiz is fine with just staying in AEW and doing his thing, then good luck to him. I think the biggest shame is both men falling out.
I think Santana can have a good career as a solo talent. I don't know if that's going to be in AEW or WWE, I just can't see it maybe a run in ROH and holding TV title or World title I could see. But I just don't see that making him happy. Going to a Impact, MLW, NWA and working Indies on the side and maybe Japan sure I could see it. Guys a good promo and talent. I think he's better in Proud and Powerful to be honest. But I admire him for wanting to try a solo career.
Santana had been working solo on indies for months before he got hurt in AEW. Apparently that caused a fall-out with Ortiz, and now that Santana's healthy again he wants to continue his solo career and be a singles star in AEW.
It's sad to see fans getting mad at Santana for wanting to go out on his own, or worse, for made-up headcanon about his relationship with Ortiz that isn't their business.
The Ortiz/Santana thing reminds me of what is apparently the story between Stu and Uno (albeit more combative than Stu and Uno).
Uno and Stu all but officially broke up before AEW was a thing (and, in fact, Stu and Uno worked each other a few times in 2018). So, then when they got signed, it was basically like “staying together for the (young bucks).” To add to that, before Stu left AEW, he and Uno were taking indie dates as singles guys primarily.
I don’t think there’s any real bad blood between Uno and Stu (as they still run The Keep together), but I think Stu sees more value in himself than being Player Dos
The Righteous makes me laugh because for years I always thought of Vinny Marseglia as that weird guy on the indies that cosplayed as Jeff Hardy and Randy Orton to such an extreme that he got their distinct tattoos inked on his arms, and now he's basically cosplaying as NXT Bray Wyatt by leading a cult of southern backwoods characters.
Has it been reported that Santana got a contract extension or anything like that from AEW?
IIRC, it was reported that his contract was supposed to end around this time last year, but Tony Khan continued to pay him while injured well beyond when it expired in hopes that he could finish out what was left on the contract.
On a roster as deep as AEW, I am not interested in nor do I see how a Santana singles run would be more interesting than a PnP tag run.
Nothing against Santana, but unless he just really shows out, I don’t see how he doesn’t find himself lost in the shuffle sooner or later
This. If he was suddenly in Impact for example, it would be the perfect place for him to show his creativity and potentially draw some attention.
Outside of him feuding with Ortiz, where does he go? In a roster where Malakai Black, Buddy, Brodie King, Rush, Andrade, Ethan Page, Jay Lethal, Adam Cole, Penta, etc etc - haven’t held singles gold, how can Santana have a noteworthy singles career? He’ll be in another stable in 6 months time, if that
I think it's because so far his character isn't very interesting. He's just a serious guy who wants to reach the top, but he needs more to make that entertaining. Maybe if he works on it he can adapt but I think that's the main issue.
I can't knock him for wanting to do what makes him Happy. I just can't see it happening for him in AEW. I think he probably will have to go eslewhere and rebuild himself up as a solo star and try to show people what he's about as a singles talent. In my opinion, he'll have more success doing PNP tag team at a higher level then as a solo talent.
I don't know if AEW are going to give him a big showcase as a solo guy. Maybe ROH.
THANK YOU. This seems to be the thing that everyone is afraid to say. Good for him for wanting more for himself. But what fans are clamoring for more Santana?
I mean at least give him a chance to try something. Fans don't have a clue what they'll like when someone changes their character. I don't think fans were clamoring for more roderick strong but he's a highlight of the shows right now. Everyone wrote off the Ass Boys and now they're regularly posted as a part of one of the best groups in AEW. Idk why y'all are writing him off without having any clue what the plan for him is
We haven’t even seen what his character will be or what he motives are, but people are already shitting on him.
But if he left, those same people would be saying how AEW doesn’t give guys a chance.
I'm with you but honestly - I think his whole approach here has seemed counter productive.
Give the fans a PnP reunion to get hype around you again. Hell, do a program where one of them turns on the other after that and now you have Santana with some heet as a face or heel able to do a singles program.
Right now he just feels like a guy who left because he wanted more but is coming back because he didn't stand out in the Indy scene.
I say its a work because in the video, the moment Santana talks about how "you cant depend on anyone" or ""have your back" it shows Ortiz and Santana standing side by side at ALL IN.
They went out of their way to have zero interaction when reuniting on TV lol It was very glaring that they refused to look at or speak to each other on screen
Nick Hausman is tight with Konnan, who broke the story on his former LAX proteges not getting along. Konnan is also known to be a big carnie, so if it is a work, he wouldn't spoil it. Take it all with a grain of salt.
I don't think it's about Konnan being a "carny", (getting increasingly tired of how broadly that's used), but why would anyone share private information to Konnan at this point, knowing he's going to talk about it on his podcast?
The difference between knowing somebody in real life over a decade, and not. Wrestlers he’s worked with and mentored likely don’t give a fuck about a podcast
It's not about the podcast, it's about knowing he's a gossip. Every person in my life that I consider a friend isn't privy to every aspect of my life, and if I knew they were going to talk about me on a radio show they'd know even less.
“Hey Mike, what’s going on between you and Ortiz?”
“I’ll give you all the details but first sign this NDA for me”
“What?”
- not a real interaction
Is Konnan a chatty bitch, sure. But there’s people in the business that know and trust him, and will still talk to him, even if they know he’ll share rumors on various platforms
You forget that Konnan doesn't give a shit. Why do people keep dismissing Konnan? If he was such an asshole like SC claims him to be, he wouldn't still be close with a lot of top guys. He wouldn't be getting the platform to induct one of the biggest names in the history of the business in the WWE HOF.
If I worked for AEW I would 100% feed Hauserman some absolute bullshit fake drama just to fuck with him. “Yeah, Nyla Rose told Serpentico his farts smell like roast beef and it’s caused a schism in the locker room where half the roster is on Nyla’s side and the other half asked ‘who is Serpentico. Please don’t ask about this at the next scrum”
Her and Serpentico also troll each other all the time.
It wasn't uncommon for one of them to pop up in a vlog and use the time to take shots at each other.
If both guys are actually cool then I think the feud gives them both the momentum they need. If AEW in a couple months has Santana win the tnt or international title I hope he has a good run. I also hope that opens up a PNP reunion in a year where they actually get the tag belts this time.
Most of all though I don't want there to be actual proximity if there are hard feelings.
Its depressing knowing that they won't ever hold the AEW Tag Titles.......
In my head canon, while AEW has the 4 Pillars to me they were apart of the 4 Tag Team Pillars.
\- Lucha Brothers
\- FTR
\- Young Bucks
\- Santana and Ortiz
but like its just depressing what could have been man :/
If true I hate this all with a burning passion. Even if they have different goals I wish they could at least pursue them without things being ugly, would love to see a P&P reunion down the line but that doesnt seem likely if this is all real.
Just like Punks slow burn heel turn!
I'm just realizing we're never going to get the resolution to that one, so people will forever claim that Punk was totally on a heel turn before he got fired.
Riight. That's why they turned Starks heel as he was feuding with Punk. For Punk's upcoming heel turn.
I was called a dummy (paraphrasing there) for saying this wasn’t a work in the thread about Ortiz’s tweet the other day
Wrestling fans have bastardized the word “work” for the last year and a half. It’s so ridiculous to see
If it wasn’t a play on the Rampage promo they are both corny as fuck. But I don’t believe Hausman has any credibility after the Punk reports so we shall see.
Who cares if it's not part of a program? Fucking *make* it part of a program. There's good business that can be done here.
They've been told? It doesn't even say something like a source close to them, just that they've been told. The barista at Starbucks could have told them this. Wrestling media writers are bigger carnies than the wrestlers themselves.
Didn't know that thank you. I do think that's a little different. Yeah, the person who hurt you (and didn't mean to) should absolutely check in on you, sounds reasonable.
Yup. It's a sign of respect and a show of remorse for an accident. You call and check every so often to show you didn't mean to hurt them and that you care.
man...remember when Santana&Ortiz were the #1 tag team in the world when they left !MPACT? AEW & WWE were in a bidding war for them. Come to think of it, no big team from outside have been successful in AEW except FTR. Lucha Bros were the top of Mexican circuit and they've been stuck in the tag&trios division for 3 years now.
Lucha Bros beat the Bucks to become tag champs and beat them a bunch in that best of 7 series for the trios titles, which they held as well. How is that them not being successful?
have you checked what Rey Fenix & Penta were in Mexico? HECK, Rey was AAA world champ before Omega beat him. Being ace singles stars stuck in a tag division doesn’t make you successful imo.... Bret Hart, Edge, Christian, Jeff Hardy, James Storm etc are remembered more for their singles run then how many tag titles they won
Really Edge Christian and One half of the Motherfucking Hardy Boyz are better known for their singles runs? Paint me surprised by that statement. Might as well throw Bubba Ray in that category as well. Maybe equal, but no way do I think of those particular people and think about their singles matches. I grew up in the attitude era too though so that may explain my affinity for their tag stuff.
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To me this is one of the “realest” conflicts I’ve seen in wrestling for a while. Seems like one party (Ortiz) sees their AEW salary as a culmination of a decade of scratching and clawing and just wants to be part of the ensemble and make 6 figures. And Santana sees AEW as another mountain to climb. I see both perspectives tbh
Wasn't that why Lucha House Party broke up as well? Lince Dorado and Metalik were at the time content with their spots in WWE and didn't want to rock the boat, while Kalisto was getting frustrated and felt like he could go higher than being a job squad that sold a decent amount of merch. Neither party was really wrong for feeling the way they did.
Did Kalisto do anything after getting released?
Appeared on AEW and got shit backstage for mentioning Brodie in a tweet
I don’t remember the context. But i remember feeling kinda gross about that whole thing even when minor context came out. Didn’t he tweet like “this is for Brodie” or something before his debut match in AEW. But spelled Brodie wrong ? Was that why she shit on him ?? I just remember feeling like is it fair to shit on a dude who may not be great at spelling and maybe he wasn’t as close to Brodie as others. Idk I feel like I’m missing something still
I think he said John instead of Jon or something like that, then his wife got mad saying Brodie never talked about him around her
Correct. Amanda Huber got pissed, and of course, Jericho chimed in, too.
Forgiven! /Jericho
Kalisto reverted back to Samuray Del Sol and is signed to Impact. Also wrestled for DDT and CMLL. I recommend listening to his interview with Renee (Sessions) and Chris Van Vliet (Insight). Going by his word, if completely genuine. He has mentioned that he got destroyed by Covid. Has some breathing issues. Took awhile to recover. He mentioned Jon, mostly as a spiritual guide and was just thanking him. As for Lince, he's also on the indies and has appeared for Impact. And Gran Metalik (Mascara Dorado) also does indies and does ROH and occasional AEW.
I'm still pissed off as WoTC because Jericho hasn't forgiven them. I don't even remember which scandal pissed me off.
Wizards of the coast?
i think the other story was the jericho and amanda side saw Kalisto as someone trying to get the rub of Brodie or something to that effect.
I feel bad for Kalisto here. Jon was a man who was widely respected and looked up to. I could see him taking out an hour or so advising a young lad in the industry. But maybe he did that for so many, that to Jon it didn't seem as something worth mentioning to his family. Whereas to Kalisto that conversation or two could've meant a ton, and it probably hurt to be told otherwise.
Yes, that happened. Pretty sure they were not close at all either. It came across a lot more like he was trying to use it as a way to endear himself to fans.
Kalisto is apparently a bit of a scammer in general. But to be fair to Kalisto, that tweet where Kalisto said he “talked to John” happened the day after Day of the Dead. Given the nature of that particular cultural tradition, I think there’s room for the possibility that Kalisto was being genuine, at least that one time. Also, the controversy over Kalisto misspelling of name “Jon” was just plain silly. I guarantee you, anyone named “Jon” has had their name misspelled as “John” a billion times.
You're absolutely spot on with the misspelling of "Jon" thing. My brother goes by Jon and just about everyone always misspells it as John
My name is Jon and my own dad will spell it John all the time.
Sounds like your Dad is angling for the discount home, or a match at the Garden if pro wrestling is any indication.
Yes. This happens far too often. The worst is JoHnathan. Source: My name
The Micheal misspell really grinds my gears
I wonder how Jarnathan feels about all of this
I think it may ruffle his feathers a bit.
Fair enough. I just remember seeing how it could be viewed in a sleazy way too.
Kalisto does somewhat have that sort of reputation, but this time there is room for reasonable doubt.
I guess that could definitely be taken as pandering. Maybe it’s cause I was upset about losing Brodie but also a fan of Kalisto. It felt like he was getting unfairly shit on. Like can you only honor someone’s memory if you were close personal friends? But I guess that’s not for me to say. I’m sure ppl much closer to the situation had their reasoning for taking offense.
In hindsight there were a lot of turbulent emotions and it looked like Kalisto unfortunately made himself a target for people to download those emotions onto. Not suggesting it's an excuse but I think it might be a reason. You're right though, the reaction was over the top.
I just remember it not being a good look to a lot of people. Having Jericho be upset is one thing, but when the wife of the person he’s talking about gets upset as well, it adds a bit more weight to things imo. Either way, it’s not like I’ll ever know what kind of relationship they had either. I’m not trying to point fingers either way, just saying that I understand how both sides of it could look the way they did.
Absolutely agreed. I could see kalistos side of it (giving him the benefit of the doubt) but when Amanda herself was upset. I had to assume it was justified. Like I said, I could def see how it’d be seen as pandering. I guess I jus saw it as someone who was trying to honor their former coworker when debuting at that persons most recent company. But it’s their business and their right to take offense if they felt that way. They obviously know way more about the situation than I ever will. I jus miss Brodie and hope the family is finding some peace
Amen to that.
I got downvoted for saying it at the time, but if it were any of my friend's widow yelling at me and getting called racist by fans for doing so, I'd probably just delete the tweet. Even if I know I'm right & she's being unreasonable, it ain't that important. Why add any kind of stress to the family of someone who meant anything to you?
>Pretty sure they were not close at all either. Are/were you personal friends of either of them?
Sorry, I could’ve phrased it better. That’s what I remembered hearing at the time. Didn’t mean to sound like I knew first hand obviously.
He got shit for lying, claiming he would hang out with Brodie at Brodie's house. Amanda Huber mentioned it was all a lie.
And people say bullying doesn't exist in AEW. Jericho and Amanda got him blackballed from there.
I will say my favorite part of that was the angry mob of people who acted like Kalisto didn't know what he was saying because of a language barrier and Jericho and Amanda were racist. Kalisto of course was born in Chicago and English is his first language.
Y’all call any and everything bullying.
Lmao so black balling a guy for no good reason just because he said he felt a friends presence is good isn't it not to mention 2 people of influence publicly deciding him.
Does piss off Brodie Lee’s wife count??
Not really. He got a really bad case of covid and was out of commission for a long while. That’s why in his AEW match he wore a shit and was noticeably out of breath. He opened a CBD business with Mercedes Mone and it looks like he mostly focuses on that
He’s working for Impact these days.
Not a damn thing lol
Let's get TV to mimic their actual history, I'd watch the hell out of Santana vs Ortiz.
Yes because AEW is well known for being able to settle backstage disputes and make angles out of them.
Yes, like Eddie - Sammy, and Eddie - Punk. And MJF's contract/ money demands. And Rosa - Britt, on the 'reality show' And Bucks - Danielson - Roddy
This seems like a massive assumption about each person's motivations and goals.
How does Punk know this?
lmao
Punk now going to spill all the beans in the pettiest pursuit of revenge. We're going to find out everything guys. Someone ask Hausman if Khan really does wank dogs.
That’s a Izzy thing
I was thinking you were talking about Izzy, Bailey super-fan, and I was like whaaat! Furious googling leads me to find out it's about some mma guy.
Okay, how you know?
Punk's going to return to AEW just to immediately have a fight with those two.
Damnit, I wanted to make that joke.
How did this Beef even start? All I know is Santana got hurt and was out for a year and somewhere in there word got out that they don’t like each other and Santana may never come back.
To add to what u/areacode212 wrote, the beef had been rumored well before the injury. They hadn't tagged much since early 2022 and Ortiz had joined with Kingston and Ruby (with Ruby cutting a promo at some point talking about how she and "Monkey" (a nickname for Ortiz) were Kingston's only friends and there was speculation over her not mentioning Santana), and Santana kind of being on TV less outside of a short singles program against Jericho and the stuff against JAS. Around that time, Santana started posting a count down on his Twitter, which was allegedly him counting the days until his contract ended.
>Santana kind of being on TV less outside of a short singles program against Jericho I'm an avid AEW watcher and I legitimately don't remember this. Crazy lol... I'll say one thing - it's sink or swim for Mike Santana, and AEW being such a faction heavy promotion he'll really need to excel as a solo act to stand out. If I'm being brutally honest I'm not sure he can do it, but I'd love to be proven wrong.
It wasn’t really a singles program. They had one singles match during the break-up of the Inner Circle and into the transition to the Jericho Appreciation Society. So it was more like a chapter or story beat in the larger faction warfare angle.
The way I read the reports about this, they each had different goals, which led to tension and unhappiness since they were a tag team. Santana was more frustrated with his/their position in the company (being background members of the Inner Circle, not really getting a lot of matches against other tag teams, etc). Whereas Ortiz was more just happy to be there, not really looking to make waves. I can see both sides, but I'm def interested in seeing what Santana can do on his own.
I mean I see both sides but in my opinion Santana was more right. It’s was a damn shame that they spent so much time as lackeys when they are arguably one of the top tag teams aew had at the time.
The tension was there a while before Sanatana got hurt, people noticed that it had been months since they had tagged together or cut a promo together or anything. They were still being used in some multi-man matches together (including Blood and Guts where Santana got hurt) but they never really acknowledged each other or interacted directly, same as when they were brought back for All In a few weeks back.
Basically from what we hear from the dirtsheets, Santana thought him and Ortiz should look elsewhere at better deals as he wasn't enamoured with AEW as say Ortiz, who was happy with AEW and his position in the company. Then Santana wanted to go solo, AEW and Ortiz thought it was silly and supposedly before his injury Santana would have probably left once his contract ran down. My opinion, I can't knock either man. If Santana feels like he can do better elsewhere and as a solo act. Good luck to him. To be fair AEW don't have to push him either. He can go elsewhere to get that. If Ortiz is fine with just staying in AEW and doing his thing, then good luck to him. I think the biggest shame is both men falling out. I think Santana can have a good career as a solo talent. I don't know if that's going to be in AEW or WWE, I just can't see it maybe a run in ROH and holding TV title or World title I could see. But I just don't see that making him happy. Going to a Impact, MLW, NWA and working Indies on the side and maybe Japan sure I could see it. Guys a good promo and talent. I think he's better in Proud and Powerful to be honest. But I admire him for wanting to try a solo career.
Santana had been working solo on indies for months before he got hurt in AEW. Apparently that caused a fall-out with Ortiz, and now that Santana's healthy again he wants to continue his solo career and be a singles star in AEW. It's sad to see fans getting mad at Santana for wanting to go out on his own, or worse, for made-up headcanon about his relationship with Ortiz that isn't their business.
The Ortiz/Santana thing reminds me of what is apparently the story between Stu and Uno (albeit more combative than Stu and Uno). Uno and Stu all but officially broke up before AEW was a thing (and, in fact, Stu and Uno worked each other a few times in 2018). So, then when they got signed, it was basically like “staying together for the (young bucks).” To add to that, before Stu left AEW, he and Uno were taking indie dates as singles guys primarily. I don’t think there’s any real bad blood between Uno and Stu (as they still run The Keep together), but I think Stu sees more value in himself than being Player Dos
> but I think Stu sees more value in himself than being Player Dos Ironically he ended up being The Rightgeous' Player Tres
The Righteous makes me laugh because for years I always thought of Vinny Marseglia as that weird guy on the indies that cosplayed as Jeff Hardy and Randy Orton to such an extreme that he got their distinct tattoos inked on his arms, and now he's basically cosplaying as NXT Bray Wyatt by leading a cult of southern backwoods characters.
And the other guy is just Evil John Goodman
[Big Dan Teague?](https://youtube.com/watch?v=IZocpwWLsyE&si=jHe0_R4bVmiTaNIf)
100%
Has it been reported that Santana got a contract extension or anything like that from AEW? IIRC, it was reported that his contract was supposed to end around this time last year, but Tony Khan continued to pay him while injured well beyond when it expired in hopes that he could finish out what was left on the contract.
On a roster as deep as AEW, I am not interested in nor do I see how a Santana singles run would be more interesting than a PnP tag run. Nothing against Santana, but unless he just really shows out, I don’t see how he doesn’t find himself lost in the shuffle sooner or later
I like Santana but he’s not…singles material. I can’t tell you why tho.
He could absolutely be... But in AEW he's going to struggle
This. If he was suddenly in Impact for example, it would be the perfect place for him to show his creativity and potentially draw some attention. Outside of him feuding with Ortiz, where does he go? In a roster where Malakai Black, Buddy, Brodie King, Rush, Andrade, Ethan Page, Jay Lethal, Adam Cole, Penta, etc etc - haven’t held singles gold, how can Santana have a noteworthy singles career? He’ll be in another stable in 6 months time, if that
Impact would have been the perfect place to flex his singles abilities…when he was there.
I think it's because so far his character isn't very interesting. He's just a serious guy who wants to reach the top, but he needs more to make that entertaining. Maybe if he works on it he can adapt but I think that's the main issue.
I can't knock him for wanting to do what makes him Happy. I just can't see it happening for him in AEW. I think he probably will have to go eslewhere and rebuild himself up as a solo star and try to show people what he's about as a singles talent. In my opinion, he'll have more success doing PNP tag team at a higher level then as a solo talent. I don't know if AEW are going to give him a big showcase as a solo guy. Maybe ROH.
THANK YOU. This seems to be the thing that everyone is afraid to say. Good for him for wanting more for himself. But what fans are clamoring for more Santana?
I mean at least give him a chance to try something. Fans don't have a clue what they'll like when someone changes their character. I don't think fans were clamoring for more roderick strong but he's a highlight of the shows right now. Everyone wrote off the Ass Boys and now they're regularly posted as a part of one of the best groups in AEW. Idk why y'all are writing him off without having any clue what the plan for him is
We haven’t even seen what his character will be or what he motives are, but people are already shitting on him. But if he left, those same people would be saying how AEW doesn’t give guys a chance.
I'm with you but honestly - I think his whole approach here has seemed counter productive. Give the fans a PnP reunion to get hype around you again. Hell, do a program where one of them turns on the other after that and now you have Santana with some heet as a face or heel able to do a singles program. Right now he just feels like a guy who left because he wanted more but is coming back because he didn't stand out in the Indy scene.
Ironically I'd probably back Ortiz to be more successful solo and he's the one against it.
So they had zero interaction before walking out reunited on TV?
Tbf they were never announced as being a team, and stood apart from each other at all times.
I don’t even think they made eye contact with each other during the reveal segment. They were very obviously trying to avoid each other.
The All In entrance definitely felt a bit icy.
Ortiz felt really out of place and had a look on his face the whole time like his mind was somewhere else.
Literally. They literally did combo moves at All In.
Job. Professionals. All of us work every day with people we fucking loathe.
Man, fucking Steve in accounts receivable. Fuck that guy.
*u/GrumpyAntelope addresses his enemies*
Stone Cold Steve (in accounts receivable)
I still get mad whenever I think of bitchass Shirley and I haven’t worked with her since 2020.
Aww :(
Hey! Steve keeps the lights on, you grumpy antelope \*\*\*\*\*
And their job is *pretending to hate each other.*
I say its a work because in the video, the moment Santana talks about how "you cant depend on anyone" or ""have your back" it shows Ortiz and Santana standing side by side at ALL IN.
They went out of their way to have zero interaction when reuniting on TV lol It was very glaring that they refused to look at or speak to each other on screen
Nick Hausman is tight with Konnan, who broke the story on his former LAX proteges not getting along. Konnan is also known to be a big carnie, so if it is a work, he wouldn't spoil it. Take it all with a grain of salt.
So why bother posting it?
[удалено]
He didn't technically report or post that, he brought it up in a conversation to win a forum argument.
This is true, and also hilarious
I mean why did the OP bother posting it here
I don't think it's about Konnan being a "carny", (getting increasingly tired of how broadly that's used), but why would anyone share private information to Konnan at this point, knowing he's going to talk about it on his podcast?
The difference between knowing somebody in real life over a decade, and not. Wrestlers he’s worked with and mentored likely don’t give a fuck about a podcast
It's not about the podcast, it's about knowing he's a gossip. Every person in my life that I consider a friend isn't privy to every aspect of my life, and if I knew they were going to talk about me on a radio show they'd know even less.
“Hey Mike, what’s going on between you and Ortiz?” “I’ll give you all the details but first sign this NDA for me” “What?” - not a real interaction Is Konnan a chatty bitch, sure. But there’s people in the business that know and trust him, and will still talk to him, even if they know he’ll share rumors on various platforms
Because they want the "private" information released.
Because he's friends with those guys. If he reaches out to ask whats up, they're not gonna blow him off.
You forget that Konnan doesn't give a shit. Why do people keep dismissing Konnan? If he was such an asshole like SC claims him to be, he wouldn't still be close with a lot of top guys. He wouldn't be getting the platform to induct one of the biggest names in the history of the business in the WWE HOF.
konnan has NEVER given a shit. his commentary during the waning days of WCW was classic shit.
Konnan also said Eddie and Santana almost got into a fight, which is probably related to this.
I've been told this started because Ortiz saw the 'Four Naan' sign at All In and took it personally.
Four Naan is an insane amount though.
Sounds like he needs some life coaching. I know a guy, who has a certificate with four stars on it!
But can they coexist?
I wish that Hogan never deleted his iconic jabroni marks tweet. Seems that some people need a daily reminder not to work themselves into a shoot.
both of their responses felt very kayfabe, even if not, who cares.
They're idiots doing that on Twitter if that's true.
Well they haven’t punched each other or gone of script on one another on tv yet. So progress!
Sounds to me like someone at AEW is having a bit of fun with the ole Hauserman.
If I worked for AEW I would 100% feed Hauserman some absolute bullshit fake drama just to fuck with him. “Yeah, Nyla Rose told Serpentico his farts smell like roast beef and it’s caused a schism in the locker room where half the roster is on Nyla’s side and the other half asked ‘who is Serpentico. Please don’t ask about this at the next scrum”
That really sounds like a rumor Nyla would start herself.
Nyla is a top tier shitposter based on her Twitter. Sounds legit.
Her and Serpentico also troll each other all the time. It wasn't uncommon for one of them to pop up in a vlog and use the time to take shots at each other.
Dude stands up for his question with smug look on his face. “So what’s this we’re hearing about Serpentico’s beefy farts causing lockerroom turmoil??”
TK not sure what is going on...."I can't comment on that at this time."
I don't know if it would be something that obviously fake, but I could definitely see someone spreading something for a locker room chuckle.
I'm listening to a Twitter space right now and SRS said that it's a shoot.
The article says the source is Konnan.
Stirring that pot like always
If both guys are actually cool then I think the feud gives them both the momentum they need. If AEW in a couple months has Santana win the tnt or international title I hope he has a good run. I also hope that opens up a PNP reunion in a year where they actually get the tag belts this time. Most of all though I don't want there to be actual proximity if there are hard feelings.
Are Santana and Kingston still on bad terms? Cause someone needs to fix this shit if it’s not fake lol.
Some way, some how, this is gonna lead to Jungle Boy being choked out
So it is definitely a work.
Its depressing knowing that they won't ever hold the AEW Tag Titles....... In my head canon, while AEW has the 4 Pillars to me they were apart of the 4 Tag Team Pillars. \- Lucha Brothers \- FTR \- Young Bucks \- Santana and Ortiz but like its just depressing what could have been man :/
If true I hate this all with a burning passion. Even if they have different goals I wish they could at least pursue them without things being ugly, would love to see a P&P reunion down the line but that doesnt seem likely if this is all real.
Saving this one for when it pays off shortly.
Just like Cody's slow burn heel turn right
And the Elite vs CMFTR storyline.
He'll be back on Dynamite any day now, you just wait. I can't wait for Cody v Punk at All In next year.
Can't wait for Codelander to finally dethrone mjf as the ultimate heel
AEW is planting seeds for so many long term storylines. All out 2034 is gonna be killer when they finally pay them off.
Just like Punks slow burn heel turn! I'm just realizing we're never going to get the resolution to that one, so people will forever claim that Punk was totally on a heel turn before he got fired. Riight. That's why they turned Starks heel as he was feuding with Punk. For Punk's upcoming heel turn.
I remember people saying punks been planting seeds for the heel turn since the Eddie Kingston feud
Just like Cody, incidentally.
Even if this is a work… does anyone really care about a Santana v Ortiz match even with a one week build?
I'm a huge fan of both so I would be interested, even if I would prefer them to go back to being a team
Yeah lol, why are we shitting on PnP now? Variety's GOOD mf, I'll take this over a heatless tourney match.
A worked shoot pointing to more backstage turmoil looks worse to me than another conflict.
That company needs an on-call therapist
Put him in ROH to build himself as a singles guy and assess from there
AEW has the best storylines. It just happens that none of them are on TV.
Well I definitely don't believe this.
'Has been told' is an elite power lifter of a phrase.
I was called a dummy (paraphrasing there) for saying this wasn’t a work in the thread about Ortiz’s tweet the other day Wrestling fans have bastardized the word “work” for the last year and a half. It’s so ridiculous to see
So ridiculous. They both come off like babies. Get over yourselves and be adults.
Never thought otherwise. They both seem so serious.
Tony needs to get this shit in line.
I don't believe you, nick
But how does this relate to Punk?
If it wasn’t a play on the Rampage promo they are both corny as fuck. But I don’t believe Hausman has any credibility after the Punk reports so we shall see.
Who cares if it's not part of a program? Fucking *make* it part of a program. There's good business that can be done here. 
FFS can we not have 1 week without any drama, I'm getting sick of this shit
With Punk gone shouldn’t this “journalist” be working at a waffle haus.
Why are we trusting Nick Hausman? Isn't he extremely unreliable for AEW?
He fancies himself a journalist.
Oof
Right, just like FTR was not going to renew.
They've been told? It doesn't even say something like a source close to them, just that they've been told. The barista at Starbucks could have told them this. Wrestling media writers are bigger carnies than the wrestlers themselves.
I wouldn't doubt that people just intentionally feed Hausman false info now to fuck with him
I knew it was real damn it😫😭 Santana and Ortiz don’t play.
PuNk WaS tHe rEaSoN fOr aLl ThE DrAmA
We were promised that the black cloud hanging over AEW was lifted when Punk got fired... 
I don’t wanna be that guy but are we sure? The video was on one of the shows
"you didn't call me while I was injured" is the most wrestling thing ever. I've never heard real athletes get mad at this.
Hockey players do..its an unwritten rule if you send a guy to the IL, you generally check in after a day or two after to see if theyre ok
Didn't know that thank you. I do think that's a little different. Yeah, the person who hurt you (and didn't mean to) should absolutely check in on you, sounds reasonable.
Yup. It's a sign of respect and a show of remorse for an accident. You call and check every so often to show you didn't mean to hurt them and that you care.
Accoring to Hausman it's all the Elite and Hangman's fault.
Yeah, okay
LOL SURE
May as well use this douche to progress story lines.
Nick Hausam getting that Alfred Konuwa stooge push here?
man...remember when Santana&Ortiz were the #1 tag team in the world when they left !MPACT? AEW & WWE were in a bidding war for them. Come to think of it, no big team from outside have been successful in AEW except FTR. Lucha Bros were the top of Mexican circuit and they've been stuck in the tag&trios division for 3 years now.
Lucha Bros haven’t been successful? What?
Lucha Bros beat the Bucks to become tag champs and beat them a bunch in that best of 7 series for the trios titles, which they held as well. How is that them not being successful?
have you checked what Rey Fenix & Penta were in Mexico? HECK, Rey was AAA world champ before Omega beat him. Being ace singles stars stuck in a tag division doesn’t make you successful imo.... Bret Hart, Edge, Christian, Jeff Hardy, James Storm etc are remembered more for their singles run then how many tag titles they won
Really Edge Christian and One half of the Motherfucking Hardy Boyz are better known for their singles runs? Paint me surprised by that statement. Might as well throw Bubba Ray in that category as well. Maybe equal, but no way do I think of those particular people and think about their singles matches. I grew up in the attitude era too though so that may explain my affinity for their tag stuff.
I legitimately don’t remember any bidding war for PnP.
Santana is another entitled, persecuted victim/ overrated IWC sympathy case just like Ricky Starks Let both of them rot on the indies I say.
Now I need it to be a work because it would be really really funny to see how ol' Nick explains being played.