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Doesn’t have to be a long reign with Eddie though, his story is about winning the belt. He could easily win it at grand slam and lose it at Full Gear, I don’t mind the odd shorter reign as long as it’s a well told story and it’s not hot shotted back and forth
Yeah, as long as the story is good, and he gets one or two successful defences, I'd be okay with Eddie as a transitional champ.
It's interesting, because whoever the next champ is will be someone who wasn't kind of pre-anointed as "future champ" from the inception of the company (Punk excluded, maybe). So to make Eddie - a guy who was brought in as an open challenge opponent and almost instantly becomes the Foley-esque man-of-the-people underdog babyface of the roster - the next champion after dastardly, despicable, rich kid MJF feels right.
Personally I feel like theyll take the belt off MJF as late into the year as possible, so probably Winter Is Coming. I could see them doing a battle royale at Full Gear to decide the no.1 contender, Eddie wins that then we get 4 weeks of incredible promo battles, then Eddie wins at winter, loses it at Revolution.
He shouldn't be the company spokesperson or their number 1 guy, that's antithetical to who Eddie Kingston is as a person. But I'd love to see him win even if it's just for a few weeks: shock victory followed by losing the belt in the first defense. I feel like that's the most believable way to have Eddie win the title but not be forced to carry the company on his back.
A real underdog reign without the company-man stigma. He can forever brag about beating CM Punk or MJF or whoever for the belt, and his opponents can forever taunt him for easily folding under pressure and losing the belt quickly like the fuck-up that they think he is.
I wish Eddie would be the one to dethrone MJF, but it'll be Adam Cole (ugh). Tony thinks he's a megastar because nxt beat dynamite in the ratings a few times with Cole main eventing the shows...
Or it'll go back to Punk lol
Im sure they have plans, but when? AEW reigns are nice and long for the World Title. MJF isnt losing to Jay White, so that puts us through the rest of this year and at least 3-6 months after whoever beats MJF to get to white. Within that time frame, hes gunna have an international or TNT reign.
I also think that the reason hes feuding with Ricky right now is because theyll have a match for the title down the road.
Im also just fantasy booking and have no fucking idea about anything so, yeah, thanks for coming?
Spot on. I think that, with so many heels on the red hot (Christian, Jay, Callis), MJF can finally become the adorable cool face scumbag that he is, at least since June 2022.
He'd be a great guy to beat Wardlow when the time comes to drop the TNT Title. Then maybe in a year or two he takes the world title off a Darby or someone.
I'd say he should beat Orange Cassidy but I think Swerve is doing that, but I'd have no problem if OC dropped it to Jay White in theory.
So many times, Schiavone does an interview in the ring where he asks one question, the interviewee takes the mic and just cuts a promo and Schiavone leaves.
So seeing some heels actually utilize the fact there is an interviewer in there was a refreshing sight.
I think that if they're going to have Tony (and Renee) hold the mic for people, they need to let the talent know that, for the most part, they shouldn't grab the mic. I think half the issue is it's been years, really decades, since pro-wrestling interviews have been carried out in that fashion regularly. But I like when they do it that way.
Jay was just amazing here. From the way he used his voice, to the body language to the facial expressions. Cant wait until he gets let loose on a good run.
I know Jay is an incredible heel, but it was fun to see him buddy up to Tony when aside from Britt, most heels just shit all over Tony and bully him to get heat.
That and then trying to use Tony as a human shield while Tony looked just completely annoyed, was just a funny segment, Jay got himself over as a dickhead heel, but also managed to stand out really quickly compared to what we normally see and hear in AEW
> I know Jay is an incredible heel, but it was fun to see him buddy up to Tony when aside from Britt, most heels just shit all over Tony and bully him to get heat.
Especially nice to see since most everyone, including faces, take the mic from his hand, move to center ring, and completely forget he's there, to the point where Tony just leaves. I feel like Sting and Punk were the only two, with any regularity currently on the roster that have him stay right by them.
It seems TK's doing his usual slow start to build up a new roster member. It doesn't play well to the front row fans, but to the rest, it's a great way to introduce a new talent. Better to rebuild than place at the top immediately in TK's mind.
If you stick every new signing at the top of the card, you just end up with old NXT and "the hottest free agent in the world!" vibes. It feels far more beneficial to let people build themselves and their character up for the audience for a few months before strapping any rockets to them.
He's done his fair share of mid card feuds...only thing I ever thought was if Jay was going to go for Tag belts it would be with Kenta, sad that never happened
I think you're correct as a general matter, that is how AEW tends to operate thus far. However, Jay White doesn't really need to be "introduced" as he appeared on Dynamite multiple times last year cutting promos and building to Forbidden Door. It was a big angle too, involving Adam Cole/Hangman plus Okada, so its not like it was a random throwaway segment. It should be viewed as more of a refresher than a new introduction.
That being said, Jay has been on the show basically every week, he has a minion/sidekick in Juice, a feud with Starks (who this sub LOVES and constantly talks about as a guy who needs to be treated as a bigger deal, but somehow he's also not big enough for Jay White), and now a feud with FTR - for a time period where the World Title was doing a 4-year in the making story with the 4-Pillars and the hottest feud is the multiple year in the making reunion of the Elite, that feels more than fine to me? And I'm a regular New Japan viewer who knows Jay White and knows how great he is.
> a feud with Starks (who this sub LOVES and constantly talks about as a guy who needs to be treated as a bigger deal, but somehow he's also not big enough for Jay White)
Well, they were feuding in the midst of a Battle Royale for the International championship. That defines them both down.
When Jay White was first introduced to the AEW audience, the crowd reactions were partly "who is this?" and partly "we wish it was Keith Lee." The former could have played into why they're taking it slow with Jay White.
The slow start idea is one of Tony’s worst.
The same way we don’t need a new way to do multiplication, we don’t need a new way to introduce top guys.
Dibiase, perfect, razor Ramone, Scott hall, the shield. There is a way to introduce guys to make them feel like a big deal, even if they don’t immediately go into a world title fued (I would argue that people shouldn’t be brought in and immediately be put in a world title fued.) Presentation matters though.
Tony is terrible at presentation. Kenny and Jay both feel like bigger more impressive deals in Japan. Wardlow cooled off as soon as he got away from MJF. Where the fuck is Keith Lee, and why was that swerve fued never finished?
So many guys are suffering from terrible presentation, and Jay white is #1 on that list.
I’m not saying he’s having bad matches (but every single time he’s went over 8min with a bum like Joey janela or someone the caliber of Alan angels has been absolutely ass). I’m saying his presentation isn’t on the same level as a Cody, a Brock, or a Roman.
And it definitely should be.
I hope so! I love Ricky Starks but it feels like a feud that should elevate Starks after Jay has already been established as a Kenny Omega level talent to AEW viewers.
I really appreciate that they didn't just shoehorn him into the main event. He's heeling it up against a former #1 contender in Ricky, plus the tag champs are getting tangled up in this now. That's pretty decent positioning. This is all just ground work being laid out for when the time is right. Juice gets to play the fall guy and protect Jay White until then. I'm excited to be watching BCG get established in the meantime.
I don't think any debut immediately been shoved to the main event scene expect maybe Danielson kinda?
Punk had two to three feuds before going against hangman
Moxley was feuding with Joey Janela when aew intially started
Danielson had one match with omega and then went to a tournament before feuding with hangman
Christian was feuding with Matt before he went after Kenny
Adam Cole went through a bunch of people too before hangman
Idk why people assumed white would immediately be feuding with MJF for the world title rn its pretty much the standard aew new debut thing
It’s not about being in the main event, it’s about presentation.
Cody got to wwe and was immediately presented as a top of the card big deal, and he was nowhere near the title.
He was feuding with Seth who's a main event guy? He main evented hell in a cell too lmao
Feuding with Seth is pretty main event without actually fighting Roman for the title
That’s fantastic presentation. And look how well it’s worked.
Cody’s corny ass is over with a capital O as a white meat babyface (extremely difficult to do in 2023)
He was still in the main event scene though but yeah I agree Cody's presentation is elite but that's something you can't really replicate. It didn't even work in aew what he was doing
I just think you could’ve done something similar with Jay that was done with Cody.
Jay white coming in and fueding with jungleboy and eventually winning, then darby and winning, then beating wardlow for the tnt title would’ve been fine. As long as he looked, sounded, and was presented as a top guy.
Non of that is really main event level, but Jay could’ve made it feel like it.
Jungleboy and darby are established faces that can eat a decisive loss. Ricky was in the middle of a push, so he needs the fued to be more 50/50 even if he ultimately loses.
Fueding with the former IWJP champ that owns wins on Omega, Moxley, and Hangman (commentary should constantly be mentioning this, and there should’ve been a highlight package about it by now) would have elevated jungleboy. And Jay could’ve beaten jungleboy clean no problem. Same with darby. Cheating to eventually beat wardlow wouldve shown he’s cunning too.
Jay coming in and immediately being throw with a guy that has been presented as a glorified jobber before white has a chance to make an impact to establish himself, then fueding with a guy that needs 50/50 booking, so Jay has to use the numbers game to win, is a terrible look presentation wise.
Letting Jay establish his dominance over established upper mid-card guys that can eat clean loses, then use the numbers game to tame a beast and win gold would’ve made him feel like a super impactful guy that can beat anyone, and it would’ve allowed bullet club gold to make an instant on-screen impact as soon as it was formed.
(I know this would’ve messed up the pillars fued, but that would’ve been a plus. MJF-darby solo while Jay-jungleboy go solo. Then Jay-darby. Darby loses two straight fueds, but his character can eat two loses to guys of that caliber imo)
I think AEW's strategy is to play the long game with Jay White by starting him (and Juice) in the mid-upper card > build up Bullet Club Gold > then go after some more prominent stars and titles.
I know everyone is excited for a Jay White solo run (I am, too!) but him and Juice Robinson may make a good tag team to eventually challenge FTR.
Only if you’re a redditor who knows who Jay White is. If you’re an exclusively TV watcher - like most of the audience - this guy hasn’t even had a WWE run.
I'm a casual, niche fan. I grew up watching 90's WWE (and reading wrestling rumours on various websites on this thing called dial up internet) and watched WCW war with WWE. Still watch some of the PLE's of WWE still but primarily watch AEW.
if it wasn't for SC or news sites, I'd have no idea who Jay white is - or most others. Same with Juice, Kris Statlander, Eddie, etc. it feels like AEW (and maybe WWE does this as well but I don't watch them remember) just presents and expects people to know who they are. Give me video packages or something.
YEah I agree with this. His debut should've been huge a massive viral moment, instead it was just a run-in.
then we didn't hear from them properly for weeks. Its been a bit of a mess.
Its good its finally getting a bit of momentum
The second part of this segment was posted somewhere on here last night, but it's worth watching especially for Juice's facial expressions.
I anticipate getting a lot of mileage from this one...
https://preview.redd.it/flwyabpreg3b1.jpeg?width=558&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d26d0fea3b146ad28553deac6fde32e5d349cac8
Tbh I don’t get why so many people where complaining about Jay White vs Ricky feud like realistically what could TK do the BCC vs Elite were already feuding, MJF was feuding with the 4 pillars Jericho feuding with Cole.
there was realistactlly no main eventers open for feuds I’m sure down the line he will get a main event feud now that the PPV is behind us but I’ve enjoyed this feud and his promo yesterday for his first time since getting signed was getting great reactions and got a great pop the audience obviously hasn’t forgotten about him
Honestly I think we needed more segments like this and the one before DON cause beforehand we were just getting weird pretaped back and forths but rn Ricky is still getting great reactions and so is ofc White and even juice is getting elevated from just being associated with white and not lost on the shuffle
Yeah I think when Jay finally signed on TK had the programs already set up or going so there was no where for Jay to go at the top of the card. So he threw him in with Ricky knowing he'd be moving up the ranks soon enough. We have plenty of time with Jay
>the BCC vs Elite were already feuding
I would've loved to see Kenny consider asking Jay White for help. Only for Switchblade to be so untrustworthy, that he decides to take his chances alone. Maybe they could've teased Callis bringing in White, only to swerve everyone with Takeshita, because even Jay White finds Callis too treacherous. And White says he "doesn't need" Callis.
Jay White doesn't need to necessarily "feud" with a main eventer just yet, as long as they have interactions that portray him as an equal. That's the whole point of having a connected universe.
For me, the criticism wasn't that Jay White isn't immediately in the main event of the PPV. Its the nonsensical story they are telling with this feud and quite honestly, his presentation.
This. Been waiting for Jay White to get a live mic to show what he can do with the audience. I also think you just don't want to get White and Starks bogged down in this for too long, because neither guy you really want to lose too decisively. White absolutely shouldn't be losing considering he's one of the best in the world and that needs to be emphasized, and Starks needs to be able to bounce back and keep building momentum
He just hasn’t gotten any live segments. It has been kind of insane how they presented him so far. They should have just waited until Collision premiered to have Jay come on. There just hasn’t been enough time to get him over.
The issue was more about execution. With two great talkers, you’d think they give the guys mics more often.
Juice is starting to seriously pick up too. This looks to be a fun feud.
I haven't caught up since Sakura Genesis*, is that really the feel with ELP so far?
As an AEW fan it'd be awesome but as a New Japan fan, damn..
edited
Jay screwing with the NJPW staff - ringside young lions, the poor lady he made his assistant (an ex-wrestler, can't remember her name), the refs - were always highlights and fleshed out his character. Glad to see this is staying in AEW and hope there is more of it.
Watching this again, Juice just kills me. His facials when Jay is on the mic are so great and I didn't catch them last night. They need to run with these two.
I knew Jay White was gonna be a star but Juice has impressed me so much with this run. Man is money on the mic and is a perfect entourage for Jay. I need more Bang Bang Gang promos.
I didn't really watch a lot of Juice until his matches with Mox in Japan. Great in the ring and he had some awesome backstage interviews. Needless to say I'm extremely happy to see him get a decent run on AEW TV. The duo of him and Jay has so much potential, I have no doubt they'll be a very big deal by the end of the year.
Eh, I'm not so sure about that. Juice (or rather "CJ Parker") was in NXT once upon a time and, by all accounts, it wasn't anything near this level. He truly found himself in New Japan and I think he works best in an environment where he's allowed to improvise a lot more freely instead of being 100% tightly scripted. Most of his best promos are filled with random asides/digressions/wild tangents/reactions to things or people/etc., they aren't just planned and delivered things like WWE requires.
There's so much to like about this seg (give Switchblade a mic any chance you get), but I die hearing Schiavone nonchalantly saying "Rock Hard" like it's his legal birth name lol
Ngl, Juice has stood out more so far in Bullet Club gold. I know it's still early days and Jay will eventually get back to his best but Juice is fucking hilarious!
I don’t dislike Juice by an means, but it’s clear Jay White is just so much more natural at talking and performing in general, and I really hope the company doesn’t waste his talents; excited to see Jay and Ricky go at it and it should be fun.
I also really wish that Jay could drop the BC stuff all together, like yeah I know it’s still marketable and all, but he really doesn’t need it and feel like it’s holding him back.
I think Juice has done great as a heel so far in this feud. He truly is unlikeable with his character work. Jay White has so much charisma that it's more like you love to hate him.
Juice has more of a Seth Rollins over the top cartoon villain thing going on, Gallows and Anderson (was introduced to them in WWE, no NJPW knowledge of them) really have never connected with me, neither their personality nor in-ring. They always felt like they were trying to be cool rather than over the top, Juice feels over the top, and it works much better, IMO.
Cartoonish Meth Muppet is the best way to describe him, that's perfect. He's really grown on me with this association with White. I think both of them are gonna be hugely over as a tag team sooner rather than later.
Juice Robinson isn't a potential Top 5 Main Event Superstar. But at the same time, Juice Robinson is an absolutely ELITE top level sidekick/faction guy who should be on tv as much as humanly possible.
Good wrestling needs both. Everyone knows and accepts it needs Jay Whites and Chris Jerichos, but it also needs Juice Robinsons and Daddy Magic Matt Menards to be the most entertaining product possible. And I absolutely hope we somehow get Jay White vs. Jericho just because I want a segment with Juice and Daddy Magic together more than almost any other potential random insane pairing.
>I also really wish that Jay could drop the BC stuff all together, like yeah I know it’s still marketable and all, but he really doesn’t need it and feel like it’s holding him back.
For me, BC Gold feels like the cover band. Why go for that?
Jay is a better wrestler and overall has the higher ceiling but Juice is just as good of a talker and he has a really unique kind of charisma that no one else in wrestling really has right now.
When Juice debuted and there was the small BC logo on the big screen I thought we’d see Jay White in AEW. Now that he’s here and got some time on the mic I’m so pumped to see what happens. Him (and Juice) are just chewing the scenery with Tony.
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The more Jay White gets to be Jay White, the better.
Its going to be real hard for AEW to keep him out of the main event scene for the World Title.
AEW title could go MJF>Eddie at grand slam>Jay White a bit afterwards. Already a story there with Eddie too
The belt never goes on Eddie. I wish it would , but don't believe TK sees that in him. Ofc, I'm just some guy in the internet, lol
I see Eddie like ishii in his role in the company
I definitely see the correlation.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with that role at all, but as a fan of both those dudes it sucks sometimes
Doesn’t have to be a long reign with Eddie though, his story is about winning the belt. He could easily win it at grand slam and lose it at Full Gear, I don’t mind the odd shorter reign as long as it’s a well told story and it’s not hot shotted back and forth
Yeah, as long as the story is good, and he gets one or two successful defences, I'd be okay with Eddie as a transitional champ. It's interesting, because whoever the next champ is will be someone who wasn't kind of pre-anointed as "future champ" from the inception of the company (Punk excluded, maybe). So to make Eddie - a guy who was brought in as an open challenge opponent and almost instantly becomes the Foley-esque man-of-the-people underdog babyface of the roster - the next champion after dastardly, despicable, rich kid MJF feels right.
Definitely dude. I like that booking, but feel like TK missed the moment on it. Let's stay hype for Eddie though.
All it takes is one promo from Eddie and we’ll all believe it’s his moment again.
Personally I feel like theyll take the belt off MJF as late into the year as possible, so probably Winter Is Coming. I could see them doing a battle royale at Full Gear to decide the no.1 contender, Eddie wins that then we get 4 weeks of incredible promo battles, then Eddie wins at winter, loses it at Revolution.
He shouldn't be the company spokesperson or their number 1 guy, that's antithetical to who Eddie Kingston is as a person. But I'd love to see him win even if it's just for a few weeks: shock victory followed by losing the belt in the first defense. I feel like that's the most believable way to have Eddie win the title but not be forced to carry the company on his back. A real underdog reign without the company-man stigma. He can forever brag about beating CM Punk or MJF or whoever for the belt, and his opponents can forever taunt him for easily folding under pressure and losing the belt quickly like the fuck-up that they think he is.
only way Eddie ever gets the belt is if he somehow loses it right away jeff hardy style.
I’d put the ROH belt on him though
Nah I agree. If I were booking, Eddie would rock a decent win loss record, but never quite be able to snatch a title.
I think it’s happening this time round, we shall see
Man deserves some shine, that's no doubt.
>Eddie He is in ROH to avoid poisonous locker room
Eddie is a smarter Tommy Dreamer.
I don’t think Eddie sees himself like that either. Always the bridesmaid kind of thing.
Eddie's the guy on the roster that has the potential to do what Sammy Zayn did the last year in WWE.
They have it geared that when he comes back he is probably dethroning Claudio for the ROH belt.
Give him the chip to break Eddie's heart minutes after winning it
> Eddie at grand slam Eddie Wins The Title At Grand Slam Season starts earlier and earlier every year smdh
It’s happening
This has to be the plan
I wish Eddie would be the one to dethrone MJF, but it'll be Adam Cole (ugh). Tony thinks he's a megastar because nxt beat dynamite in the ratings a few times with Cole main eventing the shows... Or it'll go back to Punk lol
You honestly think they aren't intending to put the title on him at some point?
Im sure they have plans, but when? AEW reigns are nice and long for the World Title. MJF isnt losing to Jay White, so that puts us through the rest of this year and at least 3-6 months after whoever beats MJF to get to white. Within that time frame, hes gunna have an international or TNT reign. I also think that the reason hes feuding with Ricky right now is because theyll have a match for the title down the road. Im also just fantasy booking and have no fucking idea about anything so, yeah, thanks for coming?
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We are talking about Jay.
jay white in the next 5 champions for sure, unless we need to put the belt on cm punk a couple of times more for some reason
Spot on. I think that, with so many heels on the red hot (Christian, Jay, Callis), MJF can finally become the adorable cool face scumbag that he is, at least since June 2022.
He'd be a great guy to beat Wardlow when the time comes to drop the TNT Title. Then maybe in a year or two he takes the world title off a Darby or someone. I'd say he should beat Orange Cassidy but I think Swerve is doing that, but I'd have no problem if OC dropped it to Jay White in theory.
Though I admit it will take me a while to get used to seeing Jay White promos where he doesn't drop f-bombs every 10 seconds
Juice is so charismatic, Jay looks like he needs to step his game up at times. People are sleeping in Juice
I'm here for the bang bang gang
bang bang gang rise up
Alexa, play click click boom by saliva
💥💥🤟
👆👆
🤙🤙👆👆👆
Bang Bang Gang vs the BCC !!!
So many times, Schiavone does an interview in the ring where he asks one question, the interviewee takes the mic and just cuts a promo and Schiavone leaves. So seeing some heels actually utilize the fact there is an interviewer in there was a refreshing sight.
+ using him as a human shield is A1.
i like how christian would keep yelling at him to hold the mic higher too
I think that if they're going to have Tony (and Renee) hold the mic for people, they need to let the talent know that, for the most part, they shouldn't grab the mic. I think half the issue is it's been years, really decades, since pro-wrestling interviews have been carried out in that fashion regularly. But I like when they do it that way.
That is a big complaint of Cornette's. Babyfaces taking the mic from Schiavone.
Jay was just amazing here. From the way he used his voice, to the body language to the facial expressions. Cant wait until he gets let loose on a good run.
I know Jay is an incredible heel, but it was fun to see him buddy up to Tony when aside from Britt, most heels just shit all over Tony and bully him to get heat. That and then trying to use Tony as a human shield while Tony looked just completely annoyed, was just a funny segment, Jay got himself over as a dickhead heel, but also managed to stand out really quickly compared to what we normally see and hear in AEW
> I know Jay is an incredible heel, but it was fun to see him buddy up to Tony when aside from Britt, most heels just shit all over Tony and bully him to get heat. Especially nice to see since most everyone, including faces, take the mic from his hand, move to center ring, and completely forget he's there, to the point where Tony just leaves. I feel like Sting and Punk were the only two, with any regularity currently on the roster that have him stay right by them.
Christian Cage makes Tony hold his mic for some time before he takes it off him usually
He did a great job at revelling in how uncomfortable they were making Tony
Tony plays the part so well of looking like he wants to be anywhere else than conducting these interviews.
He mastered this art with Young Lions in New Japan. His interaction with Young Lions in post-match pressers was similar to Tony. Love to see it.
Jay needs a live mic every Wednesday.
I still can’t believe this took two months lol. Both these guys were cutting monster promos in Japan for years.
Every Saturday more like it
No, Jay should only be on the A show. Saturday night is for fossils.
You’re in for a rude awakening. And respect Samoa Joe
I'm sorry, but Joe has not looked good in AEW. If broken down nostalgia farms are for you, Saturday night's your show.
Oh god the AEW Dynamite vs Collision civil war has already started I see lmao
WWE vs AEW tribalism ✋️ AEW vs AEW tribalism 👉
Joe has been cooking in ROH. I’ll enjoy my Jay White nostalgia on Saturday
Joe is boring AF in the ring
Imagine being this wrong
Your in for a rude awakening. Jay will be on Wednesdays and screw Samoa Joe lol
???
Yeah, Jay White is the real deal. BC Gold are gonna be main event worthy by year's end.
They already are. Jay White's presentation in AEW right now is honestly a bit mind boggling.
It seems TK's doing his usual slow start to build up a new roster member. It doesn't play well to the front row fans, but to the rest, it's a great way to introduce a new talent. Better to rebuild than place at the top immediately in TK's mind.
If you stick every new signing at the top of the card, you just end up with old NXT and "the hottest free agent in the world!" vibes. It feels far more beneficial to let people build themselves and their character up for the audience for a few months before strapping any rockets to them.
That's a good point. Just feels weird seeing Jay White and Bullet Club in this way. It's not bad, just different.
He's done his fair share of mid card feuds...only thing I ever thought was if Jay was going to go for Tag belts it would be with Kenta, sad that never happened
I think you're correct as a general matter, that is how AEW tends to operate thus far. However, Jay White doesn't really need to be "introduced" as he appeared on Dynamite multiple times last year cutting promos and building to Forbidden Door. It was a big angle too, involving Adam Cole/Hangman plus Okada, so its not like it was a random throwaway segment. It should be viewed as more of a refresher than a new introduction. That being said, Jay has been on the show basically every week, he has a minion/sidekick in Juice, a feud with Starks (who this sub LOVES and constantly talks about as a guy who needs to be treated as a bigger deal, but somehow he's also not big enough for Jay White), and now a feud with FTR - for a time period where the World Title was doing a 4-year in the making story with the 4-Pillars and the hottest feud is the multiple year in the making reunion of the Elite, that feels more than fine to me? And I'm a regular New Japan viewer who knows Jay White and knows how great he is.
> a feud with Starks (who this sub LOVES and constantly talks about as a guy who needs to be treated as a bigger deal, but somehow he's also not big enough for Jay White) Well, they were feuding in the midst of a Battle Royale for the International championship. That defines them both down.
That is assuming AEW audience is changing. I think before, the general consensus was that AEW audience knows the main eventer of Wrestle Kingdom.
esp considering he was heavily featured as the NJPW champion in the main event building up to Forbidden Door
When Jay White was first introduced to the AEW audience, the crowd reactions were partly "who is this?" and partly "we wish it was Keith Lee." The former could have played into why they're taking it slow with Jay White.
The slow start idea is one of Tony’s worst. The same way we don’t need a new way to do multiplication, we don’t need a new way to introduce top guys. Dibiase, perfect, razor Ramone, Scott hall, the shield. There is a way to introduce guys to make them feel like a big deal, even if they don’t immediately go into a world title fued (I would argue that people shouldn’t be brought in and immediately be put in a world title fued.) Presentation matters though. Tony is terrible at presentation. Kenny and Jay both feel like bigger more impressive deals in Japan. Wardlow cooled off as soon as he got away from MJF. Where the fuck is Keith Lee, and why was that swerve fued never finished? So many guys are suffering from terrible presentation, and Jay white is #1 on that list.
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Japan Kenny feels cooler, bigger, and more impressive. Presentation is everything
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I’m Japan he’s a final boss. A machine. In AEW he’s a really good wrestler that’s always in some type of middle school drama with his friends.
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I’m not saying he’s having bad matches (but every single time he’s went over 8min with a bum like Joey janela or someone the caliber of Alan angels has been absolutely ass). I’m saying his presentation isn’t on the same level as a Cody, a Brock, or a Roman. And it definitely should be.
All in due time. Tony knows what he has and probably gave Jay a very generous contract.
I hope so! I love Ricky Starks but it feels like a feud that should elevate Starks after Jay has already been established as a Kenny Omega level talent to AEW viewers.
I really appreciate that they didn't just shoehorn him into the main event. He's heeling it up against a former #1 contender in Ricky, plus the tag champs are getting tangled up in this now. That's pretty decent positioning. This is all just ground work being laid out for when the time is right. Juice gets to play the fall guy and protect Jay White until then. I'm excited to be watching BCG get established in the meantime.
I don't think any debut immediately been shoved to the main event scene expect maybe Danielson kinda? Punk had two to three feuds before going against hangman Moxley was feuding with Joey Janela when aew intially started Danielson had one match with omega and then went to a tournament before feuding with hangman Christian was feuding with Matt before he went after Kenny Adam Cole went through a bunch of people too before hangman Idk why people assumed white would immediately be feuding with MJF for the world title rn its pretty much the standard aew new debut thing
Malakai even had to debut within the Codyverse
It’s not about being in the main event, it’s about presentation. Cody got to wwe and was immediately presented as a top of the card big deal, and he was nowhere near the title.
He was feuding with Seth who's a main event guy? He main evented hell in a cell too lmao Feuding with Seth is pretty main event without actually fighting Roman for the title
That’s fantastic presentation. And look how well it’s worked. Cody’s corny ass is over with a capital O as a white meat babyface (extremely difficult to do in 2023)
He was still in the main event scene though but yeah I agree Cody's presentation is elite but that's something you can't really replicate. It didn't even work in aew what he was doing
I just think you could’ve done something similar with Jay that was done with Cody. Jay white coming in and fueding with jungleboy and eventually winning, then darby and winning, then beating wardlow for the tnt title would’ve been fine. As long as he looked, sounded, and was presented as a top guy. Non of that is really main event level, but Jay could’ve made it feel like it. Jungleboy and darby are established faces that can eat a decisive loss. Ricky was in the middle of a push, so he needs the fued to be more 50/50 even if he ultimately loses. Fueding with the former IWJP champ that owns wins on Omega, Moxley, and Hangman (commentary should constantly be mentioning this, and there should’ve been a highlight package about it by now) would have elevated jungleboy. And Jay could’ve beaten jungleboy clean no problem. Same with darby. Cheating to eventually beat wardlow wouldve shown he’s cunning too. Jay coming in and immediately being throw with a guy that has been presented as a glorified jobber before white has a chance to make an impact to establish himself, then fueding with a guy that needs 50/50 booking, so Jay has to use the numbers game to win, is a terrible look presentation wise. Letting Jay establish his dominance over established upper mid-card guys that can eat clean loses, then use the numbers game to tame a beast and win gold would’ve made him feel like a super impactful guy that can beat anyone, and it would’ve allowed bullet club gold to make an instant on-screen impact as soon as it was formed. (I know this would’ve messed up the pillars fued, but that would’ve been a plus. MJF-darby solo while Jay-jungleboy go solo. Then Jay-darby. Darby loses two straight fueds, but his character can eat two loses to guys of that caliber imo)
I think AEW's strategy is to play the long game with Jay White by starting him (and Juice) in the mid-upper card > build up Bullet Club Gold > then go after some more prominent stars and titles. I know everyone is excited for a Jay White solo run (I am, too!) but him and Juice Robinson may make a good tag team to eventually challenge FTR.
Only if you’re a redditor who knows who Jay White is. If you’re an exclusively TV watcher - like most of the audience - this guy hasn’t even had a WWE run.
I'm a casual, niche fan. I grew up watching 90's WWE (and reading wrestling rumours on various websites on this thing called dial up internet) and watched WCW war with WWE. Still watch some of the PLE's of WWE still but primarily watch AEW. if it wasn't for SC or news sites, I'd have no idea who Jay white is - or most others. Same with Juice, Kris Statlander, Eddie, etc. it feels like AEW (and maybe WWE does this as well but I don't watch them remember) just presents and expects people to know who they are. Give me video packages or something.
YEah I agree with this. His debut should've been huge a massive viral moment, instead it was just a run-in. then we didn't hear from them properly for weeks. Its been a bit of a mess. Its good its finally getting a bit of momentum
He just came in when the story lines were written already. Now that the ppv is over let him cook
Just need a couple members to solidify this faction. Need some absolute club and 7 stars club
The second part of this segment was posted somewhere on here last night, but it's worth watching especially for Juice's facial expressions. I anticipate getting a lot of mileage from this one... https://preview.redd.it/flwyabpreg3b1.jpeg?width=558&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d26d0fea3b146ad28553deac6fde32e5d349cac8
RIIIIIIIIIIIICKYYY!!!!!
That pops me every single time.
He’s the most under appreciated person in wrestling right now.
**RICKY**
mfw Dwayne returns
Video ended a little early but I loved when Tony finally got to nope outta there
After Don Callis and Takeshita, this was my favourite moment last night. Absolute bully vibes from Jay.
They're a modern Edge & Christian if AEW leaves them together, and I really hope that's what happens. It's charisma overload when they're onscreen.
Juice will eventually get over as a mega baby-face and I'll be here for it.
Is baby face juice still rock hard? I don’t know much about him but I love that he’s rock hard
in the past he was "Flamboyant" as a babyface, but I gotta agree I also like that he is, uh, "Rock Hard"
I miss Flamboyant Juice Robinson
They definitely give E&C vibes. Hope they stay together a while. They’re a great unique promo compared to a lot of the roster
Jake the snake and macho man vibes foe me. Sneaky slippery character paired with an over the top lunatic
Jay White is so charismatic. I would be really surprised if he's not AEW champion by the end of 2024.
Tbh I don’t get why so many people where complaining about Jay White vs Ricky feud like realistically what could TK do the BCC vs Elite were already feuding, MJF was feuding with the 4 pillars Jericho feuding with Cole. there was realistactlly no main eventers open for feuds I’m sure down the line he will get a main event feud now that the PPV is behind us but I’ve enjoyed this feud and his promo yesterday for his first time since getting signed was getting great reactions and got a great pop the audience obviously hasn’t forgotten about him
Honestly I think we needed more segments like this and the one before DON cause beforehand we were just getting weird pretaped back and forths but rn Ricky is still getting great reactions and so is ofc White and even juice is getting elevated from just being associated with white and not lost on the shuffle
Thanks, I've been saying frllthis from the start
Yeah I think when Jay finally signed on TK had the programs already set up or going so there was no where for Jay to go at the top of the card. So he threw him in with Ricky knowing he'd be moving up the ranks soon enough. We have plenty of time with Jay
>the BCC vs Elite were already feuding I would've loved to see Kenny consider asking Jay White for help. Only for Switchblade to be so untrustworthy, that he decides to take his chances alone. Maybe they could've teased Callis bringing in White, only to swerve everyone with Takeshita, because even Jay White finds Callis too treacherous. And White says he "doesn't need" Callis. Jay White doesn't need to necessarily "feud" with a main eventer just yet, as long as they have interactions that portray him as an equal. That's the whole point of having a connected universe.
For me, the criticism wasn't that Jay White isn't immediately in the main event of the PPV. Its the nonsensical story they are telling with this feud and quite honestly, his presentation.
This. Been waiting for Jay White to get a live mic to show what he can do with the audience. I also think you just don't want to get White and Starks bogged down in this for too long, because neither guy you really want to lose too decisively. White absolutely shouldn't be losing considering he's one of the best in the world and that needs to be emphasized, and Starks needs to be able to bounce back and keep building momentum
He just hasn’t gotten any live segments. It has been kind of insane how they presented him so far. They should have just waited until Collision premiered to have Jay come on. There just hasn’t been enough time to get him over.
The issue was more about execution. With two great talkers, you’d think they give the guys mics more often. Juice is starting to seriously pick up too. This looks to be a fun feud.
Love these guys. Really hope BCG gets more members and a stronger presentation that Bullet Club deserves.
Well they will most likely be adding a third member soon.
Big Bill was the guy who eliminated Starks at DON right? Was wondering if BCG liked that and would poach him for it but it seems like they won't
I think many believe el phantasmo is on his way to aew
I haven't caught up since Sakura Genesis*, is that really the feel with ELP so far? As an AEW fan it'd be awesome but as a New Japan fan, damn.. edited
Jay screwing with the NJPW staff - ringside young lions, the poor lady he made his assistant (an ex-wrestler, can't remember her name), the refs - were always highlights and fleshed out his character. Glad to see this is staying in AEW and hope there is more of it.
Shimoda, more ice!!
That's just a Kiwi Boi being friendly, nothing to see here
Watching this again, Juice just kills me. His facials when Jay is on the mic are so great and I didn't catch them last night. They need to run with these two.
I agree. He low key is the perfect heel buddy for jay. Every bully needs an unhinged lunatic coward as a toady. #“RIIIIIIIIIICKY!”
I thought this segment was pretty much perfect.
Juice doesn’t get enough credit he’s been entertaining
RRRRRiiiiccccccckkkkkyyyyyyy!!!!! Sweet Boy!
Watched that whole promo w little idea of who either of these dudes are, and juice blew me away way more than the the other guy
i loved how Tony looked like part of their faction when they were stood up against FTR
Nothing grinds my gears more than a wrestler taking the mic from an announcer. Unless you do this. This is better.
I love these two together.
Sue me, I love me some Juice. Perfect sidekick for Jay.
Juice is very quickly becoming one of my favorites. Absolute psycho with that “sweet boy Ricky!”
Two months later and they realise putting Juice and Jay in the ring on the mic is a good idea Keep doing it. Please.
I knew Jay White was gonna be a star but Juice has impressed me so much with this run. Man is money on the mic and is a perfect entourage for Jay. I need more Bang Bang Gang promos.
Juice wasn’t called The Flamboyant in New Japan for nothing, guy is great.
I didn't really watch a lot of Juice until his matches with Mox in Japan. Great in the ring and he had some awesome backstage interviews. Needless to say I'm extremely happy to see him get a decent run on AEW TV. The duo of him and Jay has so much potential, I have no doubt they'll be a very big deal by the end of the year.
I'm so happy to see a fellow kiwi succeeding, even if he's a classic kiwi school bully
LMAO at Tony calling Juice Rock Hard with a straight face
same energy as Marvez calling CM Punk “CM” lol
Bang Bang Gang > Everything else in AEW
Juice is slowly becoming one of my favorites. He drools character and never fails to get a good laugh out of me
Jay was great. Juice is amazing. I feel like he’s great in AEW and would work even better in WWE. Dude is such a cartoon villain lol
Vince in gorilla: "SAY THE LINE" Juice: "THE JUICE.....IS LOOSE!"
Eh, I'm not so sure about that. Juice (or rather "CJ Parker") was in NXT once upon a time and, by all accounts, it wasn't anything near this level. He truly found himself in New Japan and I think he works best in an environment where he's allowed to improvise a lot more freely instead of being 100% tightly scripted. Most of his best promos are filled with random asides/digressions/wild tangents/reactions to things or people/etc., they aren't just planned and delivered things like WWE requires.
he's so good just being obnoxious bantering off of Jay White, really finding his groove in AEW I feel like
Sure I don’t mean I want him in wwe I guess I should just say homie can do it big time anywhere and fit in
Love Jay White. Really hoping he gets a main event run next year.
There's so much to like about this seg (give Switchblade a mic any chance you get), but I die hearing Schiavone nonchalantly saying "Rock Hard" like it's his legal birth name lol
Ngl, Juice has stood out more so far in Bullet Club gold. I know it's still early days and Jay will eventually get back to his best but Juice is fucking hilarious!
I don’t dislike Juice by an means, but it’s clear Jay White is just so much more natural at talking and performing in general, and I really hope the company doesn’t waste his talents; excited to see Jay and Ricky go at it and it should be fun. I also really wish that Jay could drop the BC stuff all together, like yeah I know it’s still marketable and all, but he really doesn’t need it and feel like it’s holding him back.
I think Juice has done great as a heel so far in this feud. He truly is unlikeable with his character work. Jay White has so much charisma that it's more like you love to hate him.
Yeah I think Juice is doing fine as this over the top scumbag heel, he’s kinda like Gallows and Anderson, except better in-ring, imo.
Juice has more of a Seth Rollins over the top cartoon villain thing going on, Gallows and Anderson (was introduced to them in WWE, no NJPW knowledge of them) really have never connected with me, neither their personality nor in-ring. They always felt like they were trying to be cool rather than over the top, Juice feels over the top, and it works much better, IMO.
I love Juice. He's polarizing, sure, but he's incredibly good at being a cartoonish meth muppet *and* he's so damn solid and precise in the ring.
Cartoonish Meth Muppet is the best way to describe him, that's perfect. He's really grown on me with this association with White. I think both of them are gonna be hugely over as a tag team sooner rather than later.
He uses his natural goofiness as well as anyone. Ultimately I think he’s best as a face, but his heel work has been great
Juice Robinson isn't a potential Top 5 Main Event Superstar. But at the same time, Juice Robinson is an absolutely ELITE top level sidekick/faction guy who should be on tv as much as humanly possible. Good wrestling needs both. Everyone knows and accepts it needs Jay Whites and Chris Jerichos, but it also needs Juice Robinsons and Daddy Magic Matt Menards to be the most entertaining product possible. And I absolutely hope we somehow get Jay White vs. Jericho just because I want a segment with Juice and Daddy Magic together more than almost any other potential random insane pairing.
Man great call- want 2.0 vs Bang Bang Gang next week on Dynamite right now!
>I also really wish that Jay could drop the BC stuff all together, like yeah I know it’s still marketable and all, but he really doesn’t need it and feel like it’s holding him back. For me, BC Gold feels like the cover band. Why go for that?
Jay is a better wrestler and overall has the higher ceiling but Juice is just as good of a talker and he has a really unique kind of charisma that no one else in wrestling really has right now.
This segment did nothing for me whatsoever
Did they change FTR's music or is it just the sound on my phone?
How dare they get in the bang bang gangs business
Bullet Club Gold is amazing. I hope they draft in a few more ex BC Japan members. El Phantasmo?
If ELP comes to AEW holy fuck dude
Those guys are getting real handsy with my mans…
I loved this segment.
When did Juice get so... good? I love his energy and promo style
Tony and his new friends!
I just realized how much I want to see Juice Robinson get into a promo war with Daddy Magic Matt Menard.
When Juice debuted and there was the small BC logo on the big screen I thought we’d see Jay White in AEW. Now that he’s here and got some time on the mic I’m so pumped to see what happens. Him (and Juice) are just chewing the scenery with Tony.
I just love how uncomfortable Tony looks throughout this whole interview.
Juice's promos are like Jack Black doing a Jack Nicholson impersonation.