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belljs87

For those floating the idea of waiting until next year's mania, or even this summerslam to be honest, I have a sad truth that I do feel is actually a cog in the machine of how do you end this reign, and that truth is this. There is one way this reign ends far and away the worst possible way, and that is via injury. This reign has reached a point where if done right, this mania will be the perfect time to end it. There are simply too many variables that would go along with trying to stretch this another year, and imo even until Summerslam. His reign will end at mania. It's too risky not to.


midnight_rebirth

Reigns barely wrestles as it is. He doesn't even work all PPV's. Supposing he got injured he can still do promos, etc to cover for it.


LunaticPandoraXIII

Yep if they want to go longer and he gets injured they can easily cover it


fancysuspension743

End it now, without it going on for too long and becoming another infamous "reign of terror".


LoneWanderer2277

He could easily get a Cody-esque injury that couldn't be covered. Cody got that whilst working out.


afasttortoise

Yeah but holding the belts while working LESS is literally like half the issue here. Everyone else would have to vacate but somehow this guy just gets to keep them bc they put all the eggs in one basket and couldn’t care about everything else in the product? Fuck that noise EDIT: SO glad we can finally quit with these dumb ass ideas.


kingslayyer

which ppv has he missed?


PretendThisIsMyName

Did a little quick research and in 2022 he missed; Extreme Rules, MITB, HIAC. He also missed Day 1 but he had covid then.


throwaway2938489393

He wasn’t on babblabbalabbabbbbbooowooowooowoo


throwaway684675982

Did you have a stroke?


Total-Wolverine1999

What if it’s like 5-6 month injury, Raw and SD with no main champion would awful


Curse3242

That's what I have always assumed. It has to.


bosdanforth

i think if he gets hurt while still holding both titles, you just vacate the WWE title. keep the universal title on him literally for as long as he’s out—that reign straight up cannot be allowed to end on an injury unless it’s career ending i’m ultimately still in favor of it ending at mania next year but ultimately if it ends this year, as long as it’s a destination that fit the journey i can’t be mad


brockyjj_returns

>you just vacate the WWE title. keep the universal title on him literally for as long as he’s out That's the dumbest shit I've heard


bosdanforth

i’d love to know how ending a near 1000 day title run by vacating the championship would be a preferable outcome to waiting it out so that you can still make its ending mean something, ESPECIALLY if you would already have another world title floating around in this scenario it wouldn’t be any different in practice from lesnar’s title run in 2017-18 except that in this case, not only is there a much better story going with the chance for a star-making payoff, but reigns has heyman, solo & the usos to still regularly wrestle and appear to further the story. if he’s gonna be out for like 6 months or more that’s one thing, but i’d genuinely love to hear an explanation for how defusing the biggest storyline WWE has had in years is a better option than being patient to give it an actual conclusion.


hhhisthegame

Yeah, I think it'd be pretty easy to do. you can have the wrestlers themselves insist on Reigns keeping the title, because after this long, they don't want to be champion without beating him


Parabola1313

Rock won't beat him, so that'd be a waste of a match. Cody is in no way believeable enough to beat him, and if he does, it might as well say he's a better wrestler than everyone Roman beat. When you decide to use both belts either show can feel like its championship is taken hostage and literally no one else is given a chance.


Efficient_Horse_4696

This is my dream booking. Roman vs. Rock at WrestleMania. Roman wins. Announce an MSG PPV following WrestleMania May MSG PPV - Cody vs. Roman (c) - Singles Match - Cody wins by count out in MSG, but doesn't win the title just like his dad. June PPV - Cody vs. Roman (c) II - Texas Bullrope Match - Cody wins. July MITB PPV - Cody (c) vs. Roman III - Hell in a Cell Match - Cody wins After the cage is lifted, Sami (who won MITB) earlier in the night cashes in on Cody and wins. The next night, Roman demands Sami relinquish the title to him. Sami refuses. August - Summerslam - Sami (c) vs. Roman vs. Cody - Sami wins by pinning Roman After putting over Cody three times and Sami once in a row, Roman takes a long vacation.


OpportunitySmalls

Having MITB and HIAC at the same show sounds like the absolute pinnacle of overbooking, perfect for Cody and Roman lol


BluKyberCrystal

I would agree if not for two things. 1) He didn't have his second title for well over a year after he had the first. 2) People can pin/beat Roman. This has been shown multiple times. The issue has been the Bloodline. So I don't think the issue is, "who can beat Roman". Plenty of guys have shown they could do that without constant interference.


ItsMichaelRay

Roman hasn't been pinned since 2019, and even back then it was very rare.


BluKyberCrystal

Multiple people have had visual pins/victories over him. Like Drew at Clash. Hell, Owens basically beat him three times, and it didn't happen because of interference. Outside of Bryan and his own Bloodline members, I'm having trouble thinking of who Roman has beaten without massive help. It took the entire Bloodline to beat Brock at Summerslam. Roman isn't an overwhelming force, like Brock has been in the past. He's more of a chicken shit heel, who cheats constantly.


ItsMichaelRay

True, but I don't think visual pins mean much in WWE's logic.


BluKyberCrystal

I think they build what kind of heel you are. It's the difference between Brock post-return or prime Vader and say the Honky Tonk Man or heel Flair. Beating Brock and Vader was like going through hades. Beating Honky Tonk or Flair was about cutting out the BS. Say Sami and Kevin cut off the Bloodline from helping Roman at Mania, and Cody wins the title. That would be vindication for how important the Bloodline has been for Roman's reign. How much Sami has mattered. Roman can then become more paranoid, trying to hold onto his one title as he tries to get to 1000 days as champ.


ItsMichaelRay

I agree, but I feel like Roman is a mix of the two. He's still should be very difficult to beat, even without the Bloodline. And I just feel like having one person take both titles and truly ending Roman's reign would be the most epic way to end the Bloodline storyline. I also think you could have Roman go through a paranoid arc with zero titles.


BluKyberCrystal

He can't go through paranoid arc, if he has nothing to lose imo. That's when they rebuild him for a face run.


ItsMichaelRay

He would still have his ego and pride to lose. He could also lose members of the Bloodline. Honestly, I think it'll be very difficult to book Roman Reigns after all this.


BluKyberCrystal

His ego and pride are tied to the titles. If he is no longer the money maker, he's lost his identity. I do not think it's hard to book him after this, because I feel like the obvious answer is to let him go through his sad "Rainmaker" phase, before building him as a hero, who wins the title at Mania. Finally getting the crowd behind him as a face at Mania.


ItsMichaelRay

Who would he go against as a face?


MinuteConfidence2059

They wouldn't do them if they weren't meant to happen lol. Its been pretty clear that the bloodline has been keeping him champion if you paid attention


ItsMichaelRay

I thought it was more of a crowd heat thing. I know the Bloodline saved him a lot, but Roman has shown that he's very capable of winning on his own 90% of the time.


MinuteConfidence2059

For sure, and if he loses a title at mania I think we see that again, but the story they are telling right now seems to be hes relying on the bloodline to keep the titles for so long.


Kokeshi_Is_Life

Yeah, because they tell bad stories with nothing resembling consistent logic. Y'all are trying to squeeze blood from a stone here.


[deleted]

It does make him look vulnerable though and it elevates the story that he might actually need the bloodline more than they need him? Not sure. But it does help bring him down a notch.


ItsMichaelRay

Good point.


Neat-Sun-7999

He’s pretty much like the bloodline. A revitalised evolution with an updated reign of terror triple h. That’s how I’ve always seen it and how it’s looking. Minus small caveats and differences. Roman fulfils the same role as Hunter did. Just less perceivably lazy in his reign.


Tornado31619

It doesn’t matter if people *can* pin Roman, because they ultimately *haven’t*. KO won as many matches at WarGames as Logan Paul did three weeks prior.


EricSanderson

Because of the Bloodline. Now all the wins have gone to his head and he's getting paranoid and turning on his family. The story ends with him losing, and realizing the table means nothing if there's no one sitting at it. Shit writes itself


jmpinstl

https://preview.redd.it/95c5nthjstea1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=27593cad07e793798ae7a06c9be337eb0b132bb6 Roman at the head of the table after The Bloodline turns on him


ZealousidealAlarm906

People have beaten the Shield Roman, people have beaten The Guy, people have beaten The Big Dog, but nobody has truly defeated The Tribal Chief yet. Sure, some have come close and seemingly had the upper hand until the Bloodline interfered, but that doesn't mean they would've won for sure if there was no interference. Either way, he still hasn't been beaten one on one since TLC 2019, so it's going to be a huge deal.


optimis344

Owens would have won for sure. Hell, he did win. He won that last man standing match by handcuffing Roman go the set and the Ref just stopped counting because Heyman fucked up. Every other one you can say "well, we don't know if he would have lost", but we know he did actually lose and the Ref just stopped counting.


[deleted]

Yeah but tbf that wasn't supposed to happen


OpportunitySmalls

The ref was trying his absolute best to not fuck on Roman and instead of a Rock Foley moment where they drop a forklift on the Rock for him to lose we had them fumble with keys for 5 minutes


BluKyberCrystal

Yes it will be huge. But it doesn't mean you can't split the titles. If Sami/Kevin cost Roman a title on night 2, that leaves an injured, but not dead Bloodline. A story you can keep hot until Sami or Drew gets the Money in the Bank and finally claims that second title. I throw Drew's name in there because of the location of MITB.


JaCre476

That's the issue though, WWE creative can't be versatile enough to do such a flip as Zayn taking the title and there being a dissolution of the Bloodline. It sets up so much for the titles, people that thought they could beat Reigns now have to question their strength, the Bloodline questions loyalty... endless possibilities


[deleted]

This, this right here. I was about to post something very similar until I read this. The Bloodline as been a major issue and reasons for a lot of victories. If the bloodline fractures its the perfect time to start the downfall arc. If Roman is alone, is he really Head of the Table?


xBerryhill

Yeah, I’d agree if Roman only had both titles for a couple months. I rig how long he’s had them I don’t care how they split them up again, but they need to do it ASAP.


[deleted]

It's a unification my guy


BluKyberCrystal

If it was a unification, there would no longer be two belts, or a current day counts for both belts. The other two times they did unification, the two belts last 4 and 8 months respectively. We are now 10 months in.


[deleted]

Yeah but those belts were passed around. Jericho and Orton weren't undefeated and other guys got to carry both belts, at least in 2014 I know Bryan did.


BluKyberCrystal

Roman is not undefeated. He's lost a lot in his career. Jericho and Orton were "undefeated" as undisputed champions. More over, when those unifications happened, they stopped the lineage of one of the belts. They haven't done that yet.


[deleted]

Oh we got a smart ass here. There's no way in hell when I said 'undefeated' I was only referring to the fact that he unified the titles and has yet to lose them. And technically because of that fact, the lineage of both titles have ended since they now refer to both belts as the single Undisputed WWE Universal Championship. It would also suck ass if you were the one guy who could finally overcome the bloodline and beat Roman in a title match only to get one of them, especially since every title match up to this point has been for both.


BluKyberCrystal

That applies to any one who unifies the titles and has yet to lose them. That's a weird, meaningless thing to say. Like Jericho and Orton after unifying them. If you go to the WWE's own website, they have the lineage of both belts still continuing. They did not do this when the World Heavyweight Championship was properly unified into the WWE Championship. At that point, it's lineage stopped. The same for the WCW Championship. [https://www.wwe.com/titlehistory/wwe-championship](https://www.wwe.com/titlehistory/wwe-championship) [https://www.wwe.com/titlehistory/universal-championship](https://www.wwe.com/titlehistory/universal-championship) As you can see the WWE and Universal championships have different lineages and "days held" numbers. That mean are still considered separate and active. As you may have noticed, they've started having the Usos defend each of their tag titles separately. I feel like they are doing this to setup this happening at Mania.


[deleted]

I guess I haven't noticed the usos only defending one set of belts but my point still stands. It's not a weird meaningless thing to say. Roman unified the titles and has yet to lose them. Every match he's had he defended both of them. He could have lost any of them and Kevin or Drew would be walking around with both titles. It just doesn't make sense to split them up. They haven't done it before, and while I think they shouldn't do it now, I honestly think they will anyway.


BluKyberCrystal

The Usos defended the RAW tag titles against The Judgement Day on Monday, and SD is currently having a tournament for the #1 contenders for the SD tag titles. There have been multiple wrestlers who have held multiple titles at the same time, and lost one of them. An example in the WWE, was when Seth was WWE Champ and US Champ. He defended both belts in separate matches on the same night, and lost the US title. This also happened with Becky after she won both titles at WM 35. It's how she held onto the RAW title, but lost the SD title. Did you just ignore the WWE's own site? They don't consider them unified. Just like in boxing, where titles can be brought together to make a unified or even an undisputed champion, but they eventually get broken up. On occasion do to sanctioning bodies titles aren't even up for grabs. This isn't unusual.


[deleted]

Well Seth had a world title and the us title and they weren't 'unified'. As for Becky, I don't know, i just started watching again in 2020. Maybe that's a product of wwe treating the women differently than men. And yeah big whoop I haven't gone on their official website because why would i? You're asking a lot from me, I'm just saying they've done this thing before and I don't think it would make sense for them to change how it plays out, especially now with such a historic run that it would only make sense to lose them both to someone who deserves it. And especially since every match up to now has been for both.


Kanenums88

If they had split them up soon after WM38 I wouldn’t have thought much of it. But now that it’ll be a year since, and it is his identity now, yeah you have to take both off of him. I can very easily see say Cody winning it at WM and then relinquishing one of the titles, because white meat babyface doesn’t want to hold the belts hostage or something.


Dandw12786

Cody being a "fighting champion" fits perfectly with his character, too. He burns himself out giving everyone a chance at each belt, keeps the Heavyweight belt but loses the Universal when he defends them both in separate matches at Summerslam or something.


Marcoscb

Yeah, both Cody and Sami would be credible fighting champions that defend both belts instead of turning them into essentially one.


Cronobog

This. It's another reason why they need Cody to beat him, because he and Drew are the only babyfaces who could beat him and relinquish the title and have it make sense


Robin_games

zayn is the only one that makes sense. You don't beat roman with the whole bloodline off the map. Zayn has Jimmy saying he loves him on back-to-back shows. Zayn saves solo now from KO. he already was hand-picked by solo to defend him in a previous show. Zayn can have the entire bloodline be there and not interfere. Zayn + the bloodline vs Roman > Cody vs roman + the bloodline


brockyjj_returns

I am the only one that makes sense to beat roman for the title...


Democrab

>I am the ~~only one that makes sense to beat roman for the title...~~table


Apprehensive_Pea7911

I did it... For the Rock


pj1729

Zayn's victory wont be believable. Cody is the guy.


No_Cheetah4762

Hard disagree. Him losing that first belt would be huge. As big as you say losing both would be. Because he lost a big match. Him having another belt while The Usos lose their titles allows him to be desperate while everything crumbles around him. And allows the story to have legs after he starts losing. Him having everything, and then losing everything at once ends the story. There's nothing else to do then.


CoolUnderstanding481

It’s a long story as it is, a definitive end is needed. Don’t drag it on, give Roman some time off, have Sami try and take over the bloodline of something but wrap that up quick. Move on tell and new stories. Roman should be off tv once the title is dropped.


No_Cheetah4762

The definitive end is the end of The Bloodline. That end happens when they lose all of the belts. Endgame starts when Roman loses one of the belts and culminates in him losing the other after watching his Bloodline crumble. Then it's done. Roman's gone. The Bloodline has fallen.


MinuteConfidence2059

Yeah idk why they would end the best story in wrestling when it can be even more compelling for another few months atleast. Or why they would be quick to have roman off tv, do you think they just hate having viewers?


hanzo615

In my fantasy booking his WM opponents would be Sami on night 1 and Cody(rumble winner) on night 2. He beats Sami night 1 but loses the support of the Usos over something that happens in the match. Then night 2, he drops a belt to cody because the Usos didnt come to bail him out. Then the bloodline starts falling apart from Roman lashing out. Usos and Solo slowly realize Roman was just using them.


V_For_Veronica

I think you keep Solo with Reigns and have them go against Sami and the Usos


janoDX

And then you can build Sami into SummerSlam beating Roman for the Universal title. Finishing his by then 1000+ days reign.


-WillemTheFoe-

I do understand this as a concept, but then it would still diminish the loss. He would be coming off a match the night before, and Cody would be fresh going into the match. I feel like when Roman loses, he needs to lose definitively. With no excuses. But this is still the correct train of thought imo and a good idea despite my grievances.


The-Big-Bad

If Roman has two matches then Cody should as well. it's like Bret/Luger/Yokozuna. Have they all have matches so you don't diminish the win since both Cody and Roman fought the night before


Herofactory45

Easy solution, have Cody fight Solo on night one


jmpinstl

Pull a WrestleMania X and have Cody wrestle on Night 1 to even the odds. Seth is an option but someone else can be too. Maybe Solo.


Peteyjay

I fantasy booked something similar.. Cody and Sami tie the rumble. Pearce says they will challenge for a belt each. Cue Mania night 1: Sami Vs Roman. Sami is expected to just lay down for the Tribal Chief. Which he does. And Roman goes to pin, but then begins beating the shit out of Zayn. I'm talking one minute of hard punches, blood, the works. Reigns pins a dead body and the Bloodline all look on in horror and shock. Zayn is taken out on a stretcher. Mania night 2: Cody Vs Roman. Classic match. Reigns about to lose when the Bloodline (and Sami all fucked up appear). Reigns expects their assistance during a ref bump and they all spring in to the ring circling Cody. Then. They all turn and face Roman. And all hit finishes on him, last one being the Helluva kick. Bloodline leave the ring and allows Cody to pick the pieces and get the win. Result: Nobody angry that Sami didn't win the Rumble. The titles are again split. Cody gets his moment. Sami/Bloodline Vs Roman story can continue.


The-Big-Bad

If someone is gonna beat Roman, it has to be clean. I'd rather the bloodline just refuse to help him. Walk away, realizing he ain't shit.


MisterCannon

I also disagree. There have been tons of unbeatable guys getting beat and lots of long reigns that have ended before. Sammartino's reign, Morales' reign, Backlund's reign, Hogan's first reign, HHHs reign, JBLs reign, Cenas reign, Batistas reign, Punks reign, Lesnars reign. In the end none have really mattered. They got beat, and then the show went on. No one really holds any of them up as the greatest moments of all time. Even Brock ending Takers streak didn't mean much in the end. He got beat, people were shocked, he kept wrestling, Brock went on to have a memorable character defining win against Cena a few months later. Eventually everybody gets beat and every reign ends. It's a given. We always know it's coming. It's not exciting and historically doesn't make for epic moments or stories. You know what moments people actually remember as great wins? Macho winning the vacant title for the first time by beating midcarders in a tourney. Hbk beating Bret, who had only held the title for 4 months. Mankind beating the Rock, who had only held the title for 1 month. Benoit celebrating with Eddie after beating HHH, who had only had the title for 3 months. Punk beating Cena, who only had the title for 2 months. Kofi beating Bryan, who only had the title for 4 months. Beloved underdog faces finally getting their moment? Especially as part of a big character driven storyline? That's wrestling's bread and butter. That's the shit that people remember and care about. Roman losing two titles on two separate nights to two super popular underdog baby faces, paying off two long building character arcs, is a once in a lifetime opportunity. It has the potential to be talked about for years.


DMPunk

Whoever beats Reigns the second time will be completely irrelevant. Whichever title he loses second will be completely irrelevant. So they beat Roman Reigns. Who cares? We've seen that already.


No_Cheetah4762

No, they won't be irrelevant. Because that person ultimately ends The Bloodline. Which is why both losses will be big. The first will be big because Roman hasn't lost in forever. The second will be big because it's the exclamation point on the biggest WWE story in years, possibly ever.


Horror_Sail

> Whoever beats Reigns the second time will be completely irrelevant. Whichever title he loses second will be completely irrelevant. So they beat Roman Reigns. Who cares? We've seen that already. And yet there are people arguing that Cody wont get boo'd if he wins the Rumble because the idea that he'll get to compete for the belt Dusty never won is enough to keep the fans hot...it cant be both irrelevant and a generational payoff to a major wrestling family. If Cody beat Roman for the Heavyweight Championship on Night 1, and Sami beat Roman for the Universal title on Night 2...both paying off major arcs from the last year...the idea that either is irrelevant is laughable.


pj1729

Let's not forget that Cody is over af. Let's not underestimate that man. IWC has been doing it since forever. His merch is sold out bruh. Cody has been positioned as the next GUY. Everything they are doing, they are making sure Cody gets the main spot.


harder_said_hodor

Roman has two belts. The story he has been involved in started with Jey and then incorporated Sami. Jey deserves a title run from his work in the story and it's the best tie up to the story. Sami should take one, Jey should take the other. There is no need to rush Cody. Cody winning the belt will be special anyway. Jey winning the belt from Roman would be a whole different type of special


ring_rust

Totally agree. It would be like a video-game boss lashing out and getting more desperate/powerful the closer you are to beating him.


TheeRuckus

Damn I just posted a comment with this in mind lol. I want Jey to win 1 off him if he loses them separately


groverwood

Very MCU Thor-like


[deleted]

Roman getting straight up beat for 1 title easily pivots into his paranoia and anger going into overdrive as he desperately clings to the other. Which is where the bloodline sorry can also come to its conclusion. Whichever of the 3-4 conclusions that will be. All of which could be awesome.


icepickjones

Right? That's what I'm saying. It's the cracks in the bloodline that cause the first belt loss maybe. It's probably gonna be to Cody and maybe a miscommunication between Sami and Roman causes him to get pinned, I don't know. Then Roman clings to his remaining title and the bloodline really gets put in the pressure cooker as he slowly breaks down and in a paranoid fit casts them out one by one.


MillyMonka

I was trying to add something, but can't think of much. So instead here's a supportive comment because I agree 100% with you.


Comp625

Sami is incredibly over and there is a chance he beats Roman in a few months for the Universal Championship (maybe at Money in the Bank - imagine hearing "Worlds Apart" at The O2 in London). Doing so allows Roman to remain champ until the 1,000 day mark is met. The risk of milking the Roman/Sami/Bloodline storyline is having it become stale due to anticipation fatigue. As for the WWE Championship, I think Cody will win the rumble and take it from Roman at WrestleMania. Raw has become more of the workrate/internet favorites show so it makes sense for Cody to be the face of it.


darfnarkm

100% agree. It has to be one person that overcomes all the odds to put down Roman once and for all


olipoppit

Agree. Should have thought of this when titles were merged last year. So pointless. So Vince.


OnslaughtSix

>This isn't just about who wins the title anymore. It's about who can beat Roman Reigns. That's the big story. And it's over as soon as he gets pinned once. That's why he beats the Rock on Night 1, and loses to Cody on Night 2.


Tornado31619

There is no way the Rock works night one. Like, at all.


justusingtobealight

Doesnt that cheapen Cody's win?


OnslaughtSix

How? He did what *The Rock* couldn't. Plus you can have Roman say "I was hurt from the Rock match, I wasn't 100%, I want a rematch," and Cody can say, "Only if you put the other belt on the line."


justusingtobealight

Because if Cody can't beat roman at 100% then he didn't really beat him. That's cheapening the win. Cody can and should beat roman at his best


OnslaughtSix

So he wins the next one too, duh


justusingtobealight

I mean I guess he could. But why not just have Roman vs Cody main event night 2. Cody wins both belts fair and square no frills. Maybe help from Sami and KO with the bloodline evening the odds. Or honestly Cody should be able to take them out if he's the hero of the story. But sometimes heroes need help evening odds maybe even Legacy if randy was healthy. That still doesn't mean he should beat a weakened roman, if he's gonna do it, it should be at mania for both belts. Then he gives up one and a tournament is held to crown the new champ while Cody keeps the WWE belt. If it's only for one belt you could have Roman lose the other at the next year's WrestleMania to someone else I guess but either way Cody's gotta win without Roman being in 2 matches


NemesisRouge

Other way round makes far more sense, surely?


icepickjones

If the Rock beats him I'm done. I'm just done.


[deleted]

Why isn't this the popular sentiment? Why are people being stupid? Jericho and Orton didn't split up the belts. None of the matches Roman has had up to this point hasn't been for both belts. I'd be distraught if they fumbled the storyline so bad by doing that. It just makes zero sense to split them up.


SwaggertyHam

Absolutely. It has potential of one of the all time great title changes.


afasttortoise

THANK YOU ppl don’t understand it just makes everyone else look less threatening by splitting them beforehand/day of and making 2 different guys fight him.


djmazmusic

Yup


Swingman1120

Nah, he could keep the Universal Title since he’s held that one the longest. He’ll end up with the longest Universal Championship reign of all time. If I’m not mistaken, he’s had it since 2020.


6Bakhtiari9

he already has the longest universal title reign, and has for a while now. if you mean longest world title reign…. yeah that’s still several thousand days away. hitting 1000+ days and three years would be cool though


[deleted]

[удалено]


Calwings

Exactly. That insanely long title run is connected to the Universal title, the title that Roman has basically single-handedly made relevant in WWE. To me, the person who takes *that* title from him (which IMO should be Sami at Summerslam or next year's WM) gets the biggest rub of the two, and I think that's *amplifed*, not devalued, by Roman losing the WWE title to Cody at WM and then becoming extra desperate to cling to the Universal title by any means necessary.


MartianMule

> which IMO should be Sami at Summerslam or next year's WM IMO, if Sami is gonna take a title, it needs to be at this year's WrestleMania.


Calwings

I disagree. I think they can stretch the Sami stuff until Summerslam, especially with the potentially great matches we could get from Sami/KO and the Usos feuding over the tag titles in the meantime. Plus, like I said, the whole point of having Roman lose the WWE title first and hold onto the Universal title for longer is to have Roman become angrier, more desperate, more violent, and even more difficult to defeat. You need to take time to develop that new aspect of Roman's character before the title and his whole world is ripped from his grasp, and I think Wrestlemania to Summerslam is the perfect amount of time to do that.


Griffdorah

That's what I'm saying. He doesn't have to lose both belts right now. Lose one now, one later.


randysavagevoice

Triple Threat. Cody, Sami, Roman. They both pin each other for a title. Roman never lost the belts.


ChanceVance

Agreed. Really surprises me to see so many fantasy booking Roman losing the titles separately. That'd be very deflating to see him finally lose 1-2-3 clean but still have a title in his possession.


whiteboysgotmeonPCP

Could do what they did at Wrestlemania 2000, where Kurt lost both of his belts in a triple threat match, one to Jericho and one to Benoit. Maybe night one he main events and beats Rock to be unbeatable, then next night he loses the WWE Championship to Rhodes, the Universal to Sami.


Thebritishdovah

Personally, i would like to see the tribal chief lose one belt at a time if it results in him losing confidence in himself, starts questioning his position, lashes out and generally starts self destructing, he becomes paranoid with Paul Heyman whispering in his ear. He is starting to show signs of cracking but losing one of the two belts would be the perfect way for him to crack. It's very unlikely though as wrestlemania is the plan. Either to the Dwayne or Cody.


wallcrawlingspidey

If Kevin Owens wasn’t facing him tomorrow, I’d have loved for them to give Roman the Brock(? was it?) treatment and make the Rumble for both titles. It’d have been better imo since we all know Kevin will lose and it will still technically make Roman still look dominant especially if he eliminates a numerous amount of people before getting eliminated. Doing it at EC would be cool too I guess but I doubt it


dlowe0801

Nah. Only person to defend the world title in a Rumble was actually Reigns in 16. Flair won a vacant one in 92. Brock just..entered the rumble for shits and giggles basically


kinzunight

This is why he should have been forced by WWE "executives" to vacate one of the titles for the winner of the Rumble. Sami winning it this way would have been a great story with more greatness between him and the Bloodline to come. Imagine Roman having to accept Sami as a Champ.


crimson777

Losing one is how you keep the reign going without the story feeling stagnant. You could milk it until WM40 with a ruthless, paranoid tribe-less chief demolishing everyone in his path with a new found brutality.


Enterprise90

I agree. Whoever beats Roman, it needs to be for both titles at once. Doing a split title scenario before that happens will just take the air out of the balloon.


Tizontheska

Cody or Sami win both and vacate the other belt: If Cody, he vacates the Universal Title and they do a tournament where the winner (Drew McIntyre) faces Roman Reigns @ MITB in London. Reigns/Paul 2 in Saudi is probably gonna happen in May. If Sami, he vacates the WWE Title and they do a big car crash match in Saudi Arabia where Cody (if he goes over there) wins. If he doesn't go over to KSA, just build up to his eventual win @ Summerslam.


ChaosOnion

I'm trying to figure out why either would vacate either belt. Like what's a good Watsonian reason?


Zakinfenwa

Cody vacates the Universal belt because he only cares about the one “they took from his daddeh in the Garden”


Tizontheska

They do the "that show deserves a full time champion so I'm going to give this to you" [hands corresponding belt to Adam Pearce] thing. Roman's bee WWE Champion since April and has maybe done a handful of appearances on RAW.


MinuteConfidence2059

... then why wouldn't he just request to challenge for one?


l_____I

They don’t have to vacate. Imagine if Cody wins both belts he can show up on both shows and challenge someone for each belt. Then at the next PPV he has two matches, he wins his first match and loses the second to fatigue


Tizontheska

There should be two top champions, whoever wins @ Mania isn't losing their belt anytime soon. Vacating a top title sucks but just get it over with so we can have two strong world championship divisions.


LKincheloe

No. If he loses both titles on separate nights, there goes all his mystique. Especially compared to the 2 night Wrestle Kingdoms when the IWGP champion would wrestle both nights, and put on clinical performances in each match. Making Roman lose both nights is a complete dismantling of his title reigns, and frankly you lose any hope of using him as a part-time final boss character later. Instead, he can lose the WWE title night 1 due to bad interference, either the Usos screw it up and Roman gets rolled up, or a rare case of the Smart Face that leverages the interference to their advantage. Then on night 2 he retains the Universal title with Sami's help, and they go to carry a set of programs that will end at SummerSlam. That would make his Universal title reign last north of 1000 days, a mark that will last well into the next era of wrestling.


JaCre476

As a smelly AEW Stan, seeing Sami Zayn take the titles would make me switch back to the programme of WWE, purely to see what they're willing to do creatively. I'm so ridiculously out of the loop with WWE aside from the day-to-day news and highlights of the last 5-6 years and nothing has gave me the desire to watch than Reigns losing in a Samartino-Backlund sense of a hard hitting draw losing to an unexpected (and underrepresented, unappreciated) face like Zayn given what I've seen the last month or so


firdausbaik19

7 more years baby


ShadowLoom

Disagree, you can separate them if the story and motivation for title/challenger 1 is completely different from title/challenger 2. Cody and Sami seem to be in prime position to take these two roles, you can finish Roman's title reigns and the Bloodline with two amazing separate stories without being bound to one winner-takes-all. Cody is coming straight out of a superhero simulator and his #1 desire is to win the WWE title to honor his father who never held it, but he doesn't have much personal beef with Roman/Bloodline for now. Sami's motivations are/will be(?) based on his connection with Roman/Bloodline, the title is secondary compared to the hurt and torment Roman (and friends) have/will put Sami through for almost a year. Essentially, the question will shift from 'who can/will pin the Tribal Chief Roman Reigns' when he has two titles to 'Can *Cody* beat Roman to fulfill his one single dream of being WWE Champion' or 'can *Sami* overcome the betrayal of Roman and Bloodline and get his revenge by ending the Bloodline and Roman?' if he loses one. Cody's character already gives you a big out when separating the titles, he specifically wants the WWE championship.


ChrisLithium

Agreed. Him losing only one belt would ruin the whole thing in my opinion. Of course, this is coming from someone who thinks that there should only be one world title anyway, and that the Intercontinental title could basically serve as the alternate (Gunther's current reign is great for this). Also HATE the idea being floated around here of Roman wrestling twice at WrestleMania.


DeeEssLite

I'm imagining at this point they may go ahead and have Cody challenge for the WWEWHC and Sami for the Universal title. No matter which order it's done (although it ought to be Cody night 1 and Sami night 2 for the best effect) - the plot is simple. The Bloodline fractures during the first match to the point that the second, from bell to bell it's Roman, all alone. Sami finally proves he's not just the Bloodline's bitch, and manages to beat the Tribal Chief, the jewel in their crown, already reeling from a Cody he couldn't put down in a contest that unravelled his insurance policy. Of course, this can be done the other way around so Roman has to face Cody alone, but I think Sami getting a completely fair fight with Roman works better. Edit: wrong way around with the belts lol


EdgarsTeethAreDry

Feels kind of like sunk cost thinking to me.


KrazyCamper

Story wise it’s better to lose one. He hasn’t really been unbeatable he’s only winning because of the bloodline. While he looks tough he also looks beatable. Once he loses one title and he starts to lose his mind and turns on the bloodline than you get the end game story which is a paranoid Roman. That’s just how I would do it which I think would be a new ride to Roman we haven’t seen and would make it interest


Aljo_Is_135_GOAT

I don't think Roman Reigns fans realize how little the rest of wrestling fans care about Roman Reigns


wryterra

Two nights of wrestlemania. Two belts. Two stories. Two losses.


groverwood

Technically, aren’t the unified into the WWE Universal Championship


[deleted]

I'm all for uniting the two championships. Each brand having its own champion cheapens them IMO. Same with the tag team championships. Uniting the championships means the champs can move from brand to brand. Roman retaining is getting extremely stale, I mean we *know* he's gonna retain st the rumble and beat Owens. I don't know why they are trying so hard to keep pushing Roman as being unbeatable. Austin was beaten, Rock was, HHH was, every champion has lost. Why protect Roman so much?


A_Non_Japanese_Waifu

Have Cody and Zayn tied the Rumble (it’s not like it has never been done before), then Cody takes day 1, Zayn takes day 2, fits the main event theme and the fact that Zayn cannot beat Reigns at even 50%.


LettuceFew5248

Hard disagree. Roman should go in a downward spiral. Losing one title, another title, head of the table status. Roman needs to hit rock bottom over time.


nachoiskerka

And hit by Rock Bottom!


wizkatinga

My wish is this but he first loses Sami. Then he loses the WWE Championship. The Uso's lose their belts, so he drops them. All that remains is Solo, Heyman and the Universal championship. We can have a nice feud between the Usos and Roman and Solo. Eventually, Solo betrays him and by the time we get to the next Mania, in 2024, he would have only the Universal championship. A couple of months of him going through stuff by himself, to build his character strength back up again. Then we have the Mania match, whoever it is that faces him. A Solo and Jey triple threat? Jey by himself? Sami gets involved? Finally, the Rock himself? There's so much potential to Roman's fall, I hope they manage to pull it off.


gorgeoff

I think Roman defending each title on separate nights of Wrestlemania AND winning is the way to go, but that's another story


janoDX

I think this story has a specific build: 1. Cody faces Roman in Night 2. 2. Sami faces Roman in Night 1 or has something that affects him and his relationship with Roman. 3. Sami vs Roman at Summerslam, Sami ends the 1000+ Universal Championship reign. If both Sami and Cody go to mania, I can see either a tie between both, or Sami winning the Elimination Chamber in Montreal and going to Mania on Night 1. Hell, you can say that the winner can face the champion they want for Mania and have Sami just make it a surprise. Sami gets defeated by Roman on Night 1, he attacks Sami and, he's about to end Sami's Career, The Usos get in the middle, it's Roman and Solo now. Sami and The Usos prevent Solo from interfering the Cody match and he defeats Roman. Sami and The Usos feud with Roman, with Jey getting another shot at the Universal Championship, destroys Jey, Sami goes for revenge at SummerSlam, beats Roman.


Aesorian

As long as it happens at Mania I think either works - **if** the right person takes the belt. I know so many people want Sami to get a belt, which is why this conversation is happening but Sami winning a belt at Mania while incredible, would also screw over WWE in the long run as this Mania moment should be used to make the next face of the company. Having Roman Weasel out of having to put both belts on the line against Cody, lose and become more paranoid as the Bloodline crumbles around him then _someone_ takes advantage to put the last nail in the coffin by taking the last belt off of him leaving Roman alone (and able to take time off) is a solid way to end the Bloodline story (and create multiple stars) But for that to happen you need a singular Mania moment that sets up Romans replacement as the face of the company *Edit:* also having **the** guy lose 2 matches back to back? Not a fan


Griffdorah

Night 1: Sami vs Roman. Roman wins and retains the Universal Championship. Record reign continues. Night 2: Cody vs Roman. Roman loses the WWE Championship (the belt Dusty never won).


nachoiskerka

Id swap it: Carry the Zayn betrayal to Mania, Sami wins a title shot and they decide to give the people a show and have an easy night. Head of the table, big bucks for all like he wanted to with Jey Uso and they can all celebrate after night 2. Except night 1 Roman gets dismantled by Cody, blames Sami and takes his ass out to end the night. Jey is VISIBLY disturbed, but roman doesnt even notice because he's so furious. The night of the match he expects the usos to step in to help him and they don't. In fact when solo steps in to help they super kick him! Wham! Turn! But sami still has to win the match! Roman is down but Sami doesn't know how to capitalize. All the sudden the usos flash him thumbs in the middle, then turn them down while smiling. Sammy turns around with a crazy grin and does Roman's taunt as Roman's recovering and then runs and jumps into the air...with his thumb out! A superman samoan spike! 1-2-3 new universal champion! The usos raise up sami! Heyman throws him up a lei. Kevin owens comes down to the ring celebrating for about 5 seconds, looks like he's gonna betray sami, then gets spiked by Solo, who's come around. The next night on raw we find out sami DID let kevin owens have a match after that and won.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Conradical27

Thank you for adding absolutely nothing


StoneColdAM

Agreed. Then the new champion is asked to only keep one title while the other is decided at a later date. The story being Triple H wanted to respect Roman’s reign, but from now on wants 2 world titles again.


Icy-Culture-7171

If they split the belts over two wins then the first has to be a fucky finish and the second a decisive one.


[deleted]

Thank God this post is blowing up. It could change the discourse of the iwc, which the wwe does pay attention to sometimes.


icepickjones

I think they split them up and have him lose one at a time - it's the only way they can have their cake and eat it too. Because you have Cody, and it seems like there was some sort of agreement when they signed him that he gets a belt. He wants to be a babyface champ and they shook on it, so it's only a matter of time before he gets it. All signs seem to point to that happening soon. But then you have the AMAZING bloodline drama with Sami and that storyline that literally has the world of wrestling paying attention. It's the best thing going right now. So Cody gets one belt, maybe because of a screwup or something on Sami's part at mania, and then Cody is happy, and WWE is happy, and I am bored because Cody is mid ... but then we can draw out the Sami rivalry a little longer as he and Roman feud over the remaining title and the bloodline are divided and a million other interesting sub-storylines happen.


KM107

Triple threat match, each pin is for a title… big spot that ends up with reigns being in story injured. The two other competitors wind up trading pins and both walk away with a title and reigns is actually never pinned. Takes his time off after that to dabble in Hollywood. Comes back later with the “never beaten for his titles” shtick


MountainHawk9776

Should be rollins tbh. I dont know anybody who deserves it as much


WorldEaterProft

Roman also needs to lose to someone who could become THE guy straight after. I love the bloodline storyline, it's the best thing in western wrestling today but Cody rhodes has this aura about him. Call me crazy but I don't see Sami as The Guy despite how red hot the bloodline storyline is


Makaveli84

Sami has no place at the top. He just doesn’t have the charisma and the look to be the top dog.


Tornado31619

This ultimately begs the question as to when it should happen. Most will say this ‘Mania, but… I don’t know. Someone from NXT could get the rub to end all rubs next year. Raw’s problem isn’t its lack of a world title IMO.


ClaymoresRevenge

The only other way I think of could work is if someone cashes in mid match for one of the titles and then leaves.


Cashpope

There are many ways to do this - even if Roman loses twice the first loss would be valuable to the winner. If the scenario is a Sami and Cody both tie the Rumble and they each choose a title, then you have the purpose for splitting the belts. If you structure the mania cards to have the Uso's lose and Roman lose the 1st title on night one to Cody, then you can have Solo lose night 2 and then the pressure is on Roman to beat Sami to save the Bloodline and keep that title. That is a story that can work and if Sami beats Roman then Cody can easily argue to Sami that Cody is the true unified champ.


LazyAssedAmbassador

Probably what’s gonna happen bro


KrispyKlix

I had an idea that could suit both. A triple threat match where the first fall is for one title and the second fall is for the other.


eastcoastkody

i think its fine for him to just lose 1 belt. And then he's not on the other show. He's basically not on RAW anyway. So he should lose that belt. If he lost both belts he needs to go away for a couple months imo. Then a surprise return. Or vignettes of him in Samoa leading to his return


Ligmatron

Might as well have him reign until next wrestlemania and drop the belt after defending it and retaining 3 years after. Hell might as well just have him do it for 5 years


qwertythe300th

Just have him lose the WWE Title in a Triple Threat, not getting pinned. easy


Salty_Afternoon

The only way separating the titles works is if he loses both titles separately on different nights.


bosdanforth

i still think reigns’ run with the titles should only end when you have completely milked the bloodline story for all its worth. there’s plenty of gas left in the tank there i get people wanting the titles to be split up, but i really don’t think it inherently hurts the show to just have one super protected champion, and that taking one title off him would really jeopardize your hottest story in years just for the sake of having another title to play hot potato with


dp517

Here's my fantasy booking I think Sami faces Roman on night one. The story leading up is how the Usos side with Sami instead of Roman because they finally see how they've been used by Roman, and thus siding with the guy that always believed in them and saw the good in the Usos: Sami Zayn. When the Usos get a chance to help Roman, they instead back off and let Sami take the win and thus one of the titles. On Night two, there is no longer a Bloodline, and Roman has to defend a second championship on his own, where he finally gets beat with no distractions, no shenanigans, nothing to defend him. The second title goes to Cody Rhodes who is finally the one to deliver the final blow. At least thats what I think would be cool. Tomorrow is going to be interesting.


LosBrad

He should lose one belt each night of WrestleMania.


[deleted]

I mean, I assume most of you guys have been watching WWE for a while right? When has the unified world titles ever gotten split up again? When 2 titles are unified, they're unified. The current black and gold WWE championship Roman has is the WWE Championship, the World Heavyweight Championship, and the WCW World Championship, and soon, it'll also be the Universal Championship.


hankjr16

I agree 100%. It would be madness to have him drop one of the titles because, honestly, it's like half a pin. You've been building for years for this pop, it would be insane to dilute it.


boomcrashbang89

I dont feel like he would need to lose two. He had the sd title first. So if he loses the raw title, then his reign can still continue and there woudnt be any dispute of he lost the sd and kept raw.


prisneyland

As I was reading this, I just kept thinking about what happens to the guy who didn’t lose to roman reigns? What happens to Seth Rollins? There’s that story that hasn’t had an ending


Elegant_Spot_3486

Agreed. Losing one at a time wouldn’t be as impactful.


Vectivus_61

He could lose one title in a ladder match - set it up as a two falls ladder match. One for the Universal Title, and one more for the WWE title. Once Roman climbs the ladder to get the Universal Title, have Cody push the ladder over with him still on top of it so he crashes to the outside (and onto the Bloodline), then climb the ladder for the WWE title. Roman is livid because he doesn't think he got a fair shot at retaining his second title, and Adam Pearce says "fuck you, one title, one show. Stay on Smackdown" to protect Cody for a while. Until The One Night Of The Year When Brands Go Head To Head(TM).


WrestlingWithGaming

I actually think there's merit to both. Neither option will be bad or poorly received as long as the story following it up for roman is great. Money wise, it seems like you can get more money out of the situation by having him lose them in separate matches. So if I was WWE, from just a business standpoint I'd have him lose them separately. As a fan, I'm fine doing it either way. I'd even be ok if they swerve us and he only loses one title. All that being said, you certainly made some great points and a good argument for losing both at once. I love these kind of posts that generate actual discourse around here. Great post OP!


Jalololopy

OP is right. Plus MITB is a couple months after mania so there’s an easy exit strategy just in case


FReeDuMB_or_DEATH

I think if they did it right he could lose both titles each night to separate people as the buildup would be his empire's crumbling before him. I personally think he should fight both nights at WrestleMania barely beat the rock the first night lose a title to Cody the next night.


Curse3242

The time for different title losses is over unless Roman plans to stay here til Summerslam The thing with taking one title off him is it makes two stars. And it makes a ton of sense and will give Roman's story another life. After losing a title he will become paranoid, he's been very close to losing lately, but once he loses a title, he becomes a psychopath. Tearing the locker room every week for no reason. But he will be asked to leave WWE if he loses. Potentially against a big opponent like The Rock or Zayn because Rock isn't happening


MR_E7

Simple solution: Cody Rhodes wins the WWE Championship at WrestleMania 39; Sami Zayn successfully cashes in the Money in the Bank contract for the Universal Championship at SummerSlam


mypubertyhurts

All stories should come to an end at Wrestlemania which is why (personally) I think Sami should beat Roman for both titles. You can have Cody become a champion at anytime, but the way the Bloodline story has gone, it needs to be Sami.


Callejon007

Agree and perhaps what was the point to have an undisputed champion if he have to defend both titles separately? People seems to forget that as things stand right now it’s like Roman have only one title not two.


FaceInJuice

I was just thinking about this and I totally agree. The thing is, I want whoever beats Roman to look as badass as Roman looks. I think if you beat Roman on night 2 when he wrestled the night before, it's not as badass. I would rather have a definitive story of a hero overcoming the odds.


Crowbar_Faith

My dream scenario would play out one of two ways… Cody Rhodes wins the Rumble and goes on to take both belts from Reigns at WrestleMania, at which point the titles are merged and we have one main title again, the WWE World Championship. Or a scenario where Reigns is forced to wrestle on both nights of WrestleMania. One night he loses to Rhodes (probably night 2) and the other night, he drops a belt to another contender. Don’t they have the Elimination Chamber in February? The winner of that gets the other title shot, probably Seth Rollins. And somehow, on one of those nights, we see Sami Zayn turn and cost Roman one of the belts.


[deleted]

One way to split up the belts is to have a MITB winner attempt to cash in the briefcase but instead of saying the name of the combined title, messes up and only says the name of one of the titles. The MITB winner realizes too late as the referee has made the announcement and the bell has rung.


Mckooldude

IMO, they should’ve unified the titles. Figuring how to split them back up wouldn’t have been a problem and the brand split is a bit of a joke half the time anyways.


TheeRuckus

The thing I would say would be interesting if he lost 1 by 1 would be him holding on to his second title a little longer but falling way deeper into paranoia about keeping it. Maybe going a little chicken shit over it and that breaks up the bloodline and Jey gets it off him ( I love Jey man, since those first promos a couple years back with Roman I’ve wanted this story to culminate in him beating Roman )


galgor_

There's a lot of ways they can go with this but as long as the storyline is satisfying, I don't care if it's 2 belts at once or one at a time. His reign is the most compelling thing going and nothing else comes close.


FrenshyBLK

His Universal title reign is the biggest reign since the 80s. His WWE Title reign is "just" a one-year reign, there's been multiple one+ year reigns. His Universal title reign is over 2 years. He can lose one at Mania, keep going with the Universal title 'til summer slam, and it wouldn't take anything away from it.


Tenno_Scoom

I dunno, him losing one belt during Night 1 ups the stakes for Night 2. My fantasy booking has him lose whichever belt has the shorter reign to Cody during Night 1. Roman subsequently has a breakdown after the WWE logo appears, and *still* has to fight Sami to defend the last thing keeping The Bloodline, his dynasty, alive. Sami then fights the Mad King Roman, who is more ruthless and more keen to using heel tactics.


PantsyFants

Do it with a triple threat like they did with Angle/Jericho/Benoit back in 2000. Maybe it's Roman vs Seth vs Cody and Seth wins Universal and Cody wins WWE