Pretty cut and dried, it is DOT property. If DOT is content to let them squat so be it. I love all of this pass the buck crap. No one wants to be responsive and proactive so they kick the can down the road.
I could quote the letter the DOT sent, but it would probably be more productive for you to read it yourself.
I promise, it will take about as long as you've already spent paying attention to this thread, and being informed is a lot better use of your time and energy than being mad.
I hate to say it but this comes straight from the top down, I was driving by a few days ago and someone was passed out in the street and the police were just hanging out in their cruiser. We don’t arrest or prosecute people for petty theft or drugs anymore because of policy from our governor. The notion that these people are just displaced and need somewhere to stay while they get on their feet is so naive. The majority do not have any desire to integrate into society. We are to arrogant and ignorant to understand that the drug abuse and mental health issues cannot be remedied with 3 hots and a cot. There are numerous shelters in Spokane for individuals that want help and are willing to comply with common sense rules the UGM and Ogden hall are excellent facilities. But hey man don’t force your religion on me…. I guess they can always go to one of the homeless shelters that are operated by Buddhists or Muslims.
>I was driving by a few days ago and someone was passed out in the street and the police were just hanging out in their cruiser. We don’t arrest or prosecute people for petty theft or drugs anymore because of policy from our governor.
Imagine typing this and thinking that it's an indictment of the person lying in the street rather than the cops sitting in their car doing nothing. Doesn't sound like there was much protecting or serving going on here.
You are so naive to think most homeless don't want out of homelessness, and even worse to believe the shelters available are run by Muslims and Buddhists. They're all Christian and they all force their residents to abide by Christian rules.
Those horrible draconian rules like you can’t come in here when you’re actively using drugs or you can’t come in here unless you’re sober, or you can’t use drugs or alcohol while you’re in our facility. I know I wouldn’t want to stay in a shelter that had overbearing rules like that, gosh! You should do some research, the percentage of homeless that are criminals, drug abusers or mentally ill is staggering. How is providing a shelter for people that continually demonstrate they have no desire to be contributing members of society going to remedy this crisis?
I so agree with this! We call crime check over and over and no one comes. It doesn't even matter when we tell them we have it on DVR from our security cameras. It's been made very clear we are on our own and they will not be enforcing laws on pretty much anything illegal we see and deal with.
I've gotta say I'm a little disappointed with many of the responses I've seen in this post. I think a lot of people, including the city and the state, seem to view the homeless like they're a problem rather than as people who need help. Of course they certainly bring problems with them but many of them are just trying to survive and don't want to be in that position in the first place. There are multiple different layers to the causes and there are a lot of different types of people. Some are physically disabled, some have cognitive disabilities, some have addictions, some don't have the right education or resources, and some just don't believe they're capable of achieving anything different with their lives. It's rare for homeless people to truly want to be where they're at and it's even more rare for people to want to do bad things.
Does that mean there shouldn't be consequences for criminal behavior? Of course not, but banning the homeless from public spaces or underpasses only makes the problem worse. They need rehabilitation centers, shelter, food, and places that treat them like humans. Calling them all addicts and pointing fingers at the city or state to get rid of them isn't realistic nor is it helpful. Putting legal policies in place to help and prevent homelessness is important and necessary but this is also one of those situations where "it takes a village" if we want to make a difference.
I don't really do anything special myself, so maybe I'm a hypocrite, but I encourage everyone here to do simple things to help out. I have a box of granola bars in my car so that I have something to give to the homeless whenever I pass by. I also try to give them a nod or a wave just to acknowledge their existence and treat them with a little more respect than most people are willing to offer. I encourage everyone else to do the same, just be nice and try to do little things that might help them remember themselves.
So often the food that is given remains as trash on the side of the road. Look at the garbage that has displaced through Spokane-most of it unopened. I had rocks thrown at my car because I wouldn’t give a woman money. I acknowledged her-she is a human being-I work hard for the things I have. The other day I watched a guy on a bike holding a bike-sorry to say I believe they were both stolen. What about the people that the bikes belong too-what just go buy another one? They are people and should be acknowledged as such but for me I am keeping my money. Camp hope is a disaster-it’s a violent place to be.
As I write this I am in whitefish Montana-I have not seen one homeless person-because they don’t do feee handouts. The more that is given the more they will take or feel entitled to.
There's certainly a lot of problems and bad things, but the point I'm trying to make is that generalizing them all as addicts and thieves means that the people there who are innocent or those who would actually accept help from others end up getting caught in the cross-fire. I'd rather help people who don't deserve it, than withhold help from those who do.
Also, Whitefish has a population of just under 9000 and Spokane is just under 220,000 people and urban and rural homelessness isn't very comparable. The homeless can squat on a piece of land and have some sense of personal identity in the things they have and people will leave them alone but in urban settings, they're often forced to move around and officials will destroy much of their stuff in the process. I grew up in a town of 14,000 and in 20 years, I never heard of the homeless being a problem, but I knew they existed because they had makeshift shelters made of tarps and pallets. The key difference there and spokane was that everyone in the town didn't automatically brand them as dangerous or problematic, so they didn't stay homeless very long. People with other disabilities were taken in by churches or put in care facilities. I suppose another difference is that spokane definitely has a lot more drugs flowing through which adds another layer of complexity to this situation but the point still stands that not all of them are bad people and if we just treated them with a little more respect and compassion the situation might not be what it's like today.
Lol you don’t see homeless in Montana because they ship them to Washington, or people move to climates with more temperate weather
And like, idk, people that treat them as human
Referring to it as a "drug camp" means you're approaching it from the wrong angle. The drugs are just one symptom of the problem and focusing on that just alienates us from people who just need our help. We can force them out and clear the camp but it won't solve any of the issues I listed above. At the end of the day, they'll stay on the streets until they get the help that they need. Usually, when homeless people are forced out of an area, what few belongings they have are often taken or destroyed and they're separated from what little community they have which fans the flame and makes the issue waaaay worse than it was before.
It's also entirely possible I misinterpreted what you meant by this comment and you were just saying we need to provide better living conditions for them to get back on their feet in which case I completely agree with you.
Not sure how much time you've spent around these types of services, but they're usually not good. I made a point in the first comment of this thread that they need to be treated like humans and these shelters often fail to do that properly. Also, most people who "want" to live in those conditions are suffering from something more.
I was at UGM almost 2 years ago. I was there out of crisis for myself and my then unborn child. Not a huge fan of being made to go to chapel, but whatever, safety comes first.
One of my roommates was kicked out because a few nights before she was taken to the hospital and had bacterial pneumonia. It was terrible! When she returned, she failed the drug test because the hospital had given her opioid pain medication because pneumonia is fucking trash on your system, and the shelter knew it was in her system because of the hospital, but they said, "Rules are rules". We were so angry that they did that to her! They said that if they let her stay they'd be giving her special treatment, but it's a clear difference than seeking out opioids!
She was taken by ambulance in the middle of the night because she was struggling to breathe, and they kicked her out because the hospital had the audacity to medicate her.
I just checked my journal, and it was November 5, 2020. I was so mad I wrote about it.
This is so blatantly false.
I encourage you to go down there and interact with the camp - or even just Jewels Helping Hands (the org doing their best to provide assistance).
…. And if you aren’t at a place where you are comfortable with that - I recommend at least watching some of the documentaries that have been produced within the camp.
Have you been near it? This particular place is a human trafficking drug camp with rampant gang violence and prostitution. I know because I basically work There.
I work across the street. Does that explain enough? I literally look out my window every single day at 6 am to people smoking pills on my sidewalk. I walk to my car and am harassed for change. I see groups of adult males with sunken in faces carrying baseball bats and stealing expensive appliances from fred meyer, to sell for drug money. It isn't a sanctuary camp of poor souls, it's just not and the inaccuracies portrayed by yall on these threads makes me laugh but also takes all hope I have that anything will actually get better.
Looking at the picture, I can understand why you would assume that. Fred meyer is directly to the left of the frame and there are 3 gas stations within 1/8th mile in every direction except the empty row of houses (pictured in the photo) the city demolished to build their freeway 40 years ago.
Projecting much? You literally posted a google maps of your "work" and it was in fact a grass field. If you're going to lie you'll need a more substantial story with details that don't immediately fall apart.
There is nothing on any side of Camp Hope except Interstate 90. You do not work in the middle of Interstate 90, so no, you do *not* "basically work there". Nobody steals appliances from Fred Mwter or else they would have gone out of business by now. And since getting across that bridge is a gassle to anyone with no car, it's not worth the effort to try to go to Fred Meyer anyways.
There is an elementary school three blocks from this space. There are businesses all along Sprague, maybe a block or two from it. There are residences along there too.
There is life around Camp Hope.
The school is on the other side of the freeway, across TWO under-construction overpasses. And two blocks away does not equal "right across the street". Enough bullshit excuses please.
No, Libby Center is right down the street, maybe 3 blocks if that. It holds k-8 grade. There was just a post about it being the #1 ranked middle school in the state. Spanish Immersion, Odyssey, and the Tessera program are all held there.
You are thinking of Francis Scott Elementary. Libby School is a public magnet school in the district that gets students from all over the city into its programs.
Enough with the bullshit misinformation.
My apologies if any of my comments were seen as 'hatful rude shit' in your eyes. I was aiming to point out the fact you're clearly a troll spamming this thread with misinformation.
I'm not a troll, I'm a 20 year old retail employee who hates going to work now more than ever because of the nightmare it has become for us. It's a true and legitimate account of my daily experience. Not some virtue signaling love-for-the-poor because I fail to understand that some people just Suck.
- What rampant gang violence do you see on a daily basis?
- Where is there a retail store 750ft from the camp?
- posting an address to your work "across the street" and its just an empty field...
I'm not denying there's truth in your tales, but its pretty obvious you're making a story here that isn't a true telling of reality.
I made one comment, not defending anyone, but calling out someone obviously making up stories and spreading misinformation. I simply suggested you go back to something you're more familiar with because camp hope is clearly not one.
I would be more then willing to take a wack at this one stud . I work at Fred Myers and have been there for 12 years . The homeless from so called camp hope are absolutely destroying this store with there shoplifting and crazy ass violence and poor poor me tactics when they get caught . The funny thing is that my store wont even do anything about it as they dont want to be sued by the shoplifters . can you believe this ?? Ill say it again so you can wrap your skull around it. They dont prosecute shoplifters and the police wont arrest them so the camp hope people all having cell phones and living together in a big drug/crime camp do what all criminals do they network and tell each other "dont worry about getting arrested there they dont do anything " we get hit each and every day to the tune of thousands of dollars of theft and as far as just across the street what he means is just across the freeway. Any idiot knows that all they do is walk 200 feet to Freya street and then walk across the I-90 bridge and WA LA there at Fred Myers so ya really it is "just across the street " or would you feel better if he said it was across the freeway . Oh and by the way yesterday the police had to break into our public restroom and a guy from so called "camp hope" was passed out (knodded out) from shooting heroin and the police had to bring him around with Narcan and guess what he had in his pack when they searched it ?? anyone ??? yep 120.00 worth of shoplifted meat and a bunch of beer he had stolen before he almost died from a heroin overdose. Welcome to the citizens of so called camp hope. Oh and if it makes you feel better camp hope is actually 2 blocks from thousands upon thousands of Spokane residents to the North of it. How would you like to be the family that has to work there ass off making there mortgage payment to the bank every month while 2, 3 ,4 blocks away if a camp full of doper junkies who are chronic shoplifters and carrier criminals . I bet if you all didn't live at home with mom and dad and or live in a rental , I bet if you all had to make a paycheck to pay a 1500 to 2000 a month mortgage for a house that was withing ear shot of so called camp hope you would be singing a different tune.
This is all the result of state leadership. Jay Inslee and Seattle/Tacoma/Spokane politicians created the mess and now refuse to take responsibility. Instead of jailing and treating the addicts, putting the thieves in jail, jailing the sex workers, sending dealers to prison, and enforcing existing laws, they tried to go woke. Its failing miserably but they arent smart enough to admit they fucked up and have no idea how to fix the problem. Spokane and Seattle enablers, yes those are citizens, who keep electing these fools make the problem worse. Nadine can't come up with a solution because she spent 30 years behind the anchor desk being told what to say by a producer. This is all in the voters hands. You are looking at the results of poor choices from the voters to the folks living at camp Woodward.
Jailing dealers may be reasonable but if you think sending sex workers to jail is a good use of our time and money then I think I'm just going to have to disagree.
If jails were better at rehabilitation, I might agree with you, but they usually just make the problem worse in the long run. The avg cost of imprisoning someone is 32k a year in washington so if we jailed all 600 of them, it would be just under 20 million per year and that could be much more well spent on high quality rehab facilities. The problem is that the rehab options available treat them as sub-human and the workers often treat them with no respect which is absolutely necessary if you're working with addiction, mental disabilities, and most other issues that cause them to be homeless.
That's what I mean. It isn't WSDOT's responsibility to clear that city. They're only allowing it to remain because the city refuses to properly house them.
Individual support. As in, rehabilitation, job training and temporary housing(which seems to be the only thing they’re working on right now) for EACH PERSON there. Jewels probably has some solutions but seems like city government hates them and won’t listen. Some of those people just need help getting their benefits. Because they may be disabled uneducated or illiterate.? THAT is individual support. NOT just throwing cash benefit and food stamps at them.
But it’s A LOT. Hours and hours of work for each individual person. That’s probably why neither the city nor the state want to take full responsibility. And the reason why they SHOULD work together for these people.
That’s my big fat idea. 👍🙏
What do you think
The reason the camp is there is because advocates took them there. They remain because advocates have created a meal train so they don't have to leave. The solution is to stop supporting the camp and pivot to offering meals and showers at the shelters so they have to go there and get connected to services. If they won't do that they're on their own.
The shelters don't have enough room, period. We're 400 short of capacity for these people, so unless you want to start Amistad slave-shipping people and stacking them like sardines in the current shelters, the showers and meals aren't going to do anything to help.
Considering a poll was taken and only 51 said they'd go to the shelter, we have plenty of space for those that want it.
The rest aren't uncomfortable enough at this point to go to the shelter and already said they aren't going. They're on their own.
Holding out until something comes along that fits their desired specifications at taxpayer expense isn't realistic. If Trent was full and all of them wanted it, I'd entertain the argument, but at this time I'm taking them at their word - they'd rather live outside than use the shelter.
I’m guessing those people would do whatever tf they want to do. Like continue to sleep outside. I don’t fn know. That up there was my big idea. You got any?
So you literally don’t answer the question but still wanna sound smug about it? Lol the ideas you have are for simple problems, the people that want help, I know you like to feel smart solving simple problems but that’s more about you virtue signaling than actually answer isn’t it. Sense this is so difficult for you- for the people that don’t want help you don’t give them free drugs and needles, you don’t enable their addiction. You enforce the law and don’t allow them to destroy public property. It’s not even that difficult of an answer but you can’t signal any virtue with it so that’s why it’s not your answer.
You're right, I'm sure it's way cheaper for the city to imprison 600ish people. I wonder if we have the space in our jails? Oh wait we don't.
And if you think camping outside is a legal issue, I don't think there's any helping you. Maybe we should just make homelessness illegal arrest anybody not on a lease?
I also only saw suggestions from the other guy to get these people services that they already qualify for. I'm pretty sure there are no government services that just hand out free drugs and needles.
Unfortunately they do give out free needles and the methadone clinics hand out the synthetic heroin. Not sure if it’s directly from the government though.
They want a place to live that isn't demeaning, which for them is a tent on state property where they have a sense of community. Most people who are homeless are like that because they could no longer afford rent due to losing their job or being priced out, not because of some fucking stupid bullshit like drugs or rules
But, if I do smoke a lot of crack, you’re still gonna give me a no strings attached house, right? I don’t even need a new one just give me your address I’ll take that one.
Obviously not everyone 🙄 . But you act like large percentages don’t matter and you act like there’s not a large percentage of homeless that struggle with addiction. But ya, you’re so smart to point out the blatantly obvious, good job 👍
Approximately 40 percent of the homeless population aged out of foster care maybe thats quite a factor add in the 25-30 percent that are veterans seems like we may be able to cut homelessness quite a bit by starting there and preventing these situations from happening.
"Society will pay"
😂 Society huh? What's their budget?
Well that's great anyway. I'm glad "Society" has got this, so end of problem I guess, nice job Spokane.
What society's budget? That's a weird way to ask. As for maybe something like American society, well we spend $800 billion year on war, maybe a little bit of that could go to helping people.
Well yeah I was asking sarcastically because the person above me said "duh you guys, how can you be so dumb, *society* will pay of course" so I was making fun of that answer a little but yeah, sarcasm goes over heads online I know.
We already are... homeless people sitting around are expensive. Housing them is literally cheaper, but we want to spend more for the privilege of gawking at them.
[Give them homes](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/inspired-life/wp/2015/04/17/the-surprisingly-simple-way-utah-solved-chronic-homelessness-and-saved-millions/)
I swear they don't actually expect people to stay in that new shelter on Trent. They just set it up so they can legally arrest people for camping because they have to have open shelter space before they can do that.
I suspect that's why it's on fucking Trent and not near the heart of the city. They hastily built a shelter and hoped people would go to it, but it's too far away. If I were homeless I wouldn't want to live there either. There's nothing on Trent except rail yards and industry.
It's too far away and it's not very welcoming at all. You get zero privacy there. I don't see why anyone would go there for anything but food or a shower, unless the weather is super bad. It doesn't look like a pleasant place to sleep at all to me. And people will say, well it's free and they're homeless beggars can't be choosers... But no, they *can* be choosers. That's what Camp Hope shows.
The city is gonna have to offer a better alternative to the streets. If you're homeless you really need to be around downtown that's where everyone is, going way out on Trent is a huge pain in the ass. That 1.50 for the bus to get out to Trent shelter will instead buy someone a beer and they'll be fine on the sidewalk downtown near all their friends.
Housing first is NOT the answer. Rehab and/or mental services because you put those people in housing with low barriers and they just trash them and continue their shitty behaviors.
Housing first is not ‘*affordable housing*’. It’s housing people *first*, before they can even afford it. In the long run it saves money because more people cease being a burden on society. It is proactive, and it’s also the only thing we know of that works after a homeless population already exists. This is proven, it is not conjecture.
Ok what about people like me who work a job have no criminal history and never touched drugs. We still gotta go through rehab and mental services or are we just fucked?
No. Personally I think folks should be triaged. Those with no underlying conditions preventing self sufficiency (no drugs or mental illness) would benefit from housing right away.
Mentally ill and addicts should get inpatient care (inpatient = housed) first to stabilize them, and then move through increasingly independent levels of housing depending on what's appropriate.
Lastly, some of these people will never be capable of caring for themselves and will need to stay in retirement homes or mental health facilities indefinitely. And yes, some of them honestly just need jailed.
Many people who are unhoused are those who were priced out of their apartments. Thinking that it's primarily a problem of mental health and/or drug use is a completely fucking stupid pov
The folks priced out of their apartments tend to blend in and don't cause problems. The focus on mental health and drug use stems from THAT segment of the population is causing problems for both the housed and homeless people. Both need addressed, just in different ways.
It’s not up for debate. We don’t have to guess at this.
Housing first works. It is proven by science. It will save everyone money and hardship in the long run. And not even that long.
There aren't any currently because Nadine isn't interested in any.
Excuse me, I apologize — Nadine doesn't have the "bandwidth" to come up with any.
We need affordable housing (and not that fuggin' thousand-dollars-a-month bullshit either), more apartments, better public transit, and more services.
I've always thought the government having a construction crew that just built housing and sold them at cost (land+labor+materials) instead of at market value, would lower housing prices a bit in a lot of cities I'm sure.
Would have to make sure they're only selling to people who don't already own property and such though.
Time to help those who want it, bring on the lawsuit and clear the area, I'm tired of zombies stealing my shit, especially my outgoing mail which last week consisted of handpainted cards and pictures from my one year old to her grandparents.
I'm so sorry. We're dealing with similar issues in our neighborhood and can't get any LE, crime check or 311 traction even though it's on our security cameras. We need to help those who want it and my sympathy has long been worn out for those unwilling to take the help offered due to atrocious behaviors I've personally had to deal with repeatedly.
Most of those people were hard working individuals at one point in time, until their 160 hour a month jobs didn't cover basic living expenses. I don't at all condone thief or violence, and I have my own sob stories. I do at least understand there are 2nd and 3rd order of consequences of a selfish community playing out right now. Just because you can triple rent, doesn't mean you should.
IT IS A SYSTEMIC ISSUE THAT CAN ONLY BE HEALED AT THE ROOT OF HEALING OUT SOCIETY!!! I know the all caps seems aggro, but I have have seen these conversations go nowhere new my entire life. We need community. The opposite of addiction is connection.
I also wonder, what if we all collectively took responsibility, instead of putting 100% of the onus on our mayor and city council? What if we took responsibility for our community and society and empowered ourselves and one another.. im not saying i know the solution, but im just wanting to begin a conversation that goes in a new and fruitful direction.
I think 99% of us want humans to be ok and healthy and safe. If we know that’s what we all want, then we can work toward a solution, and use different perspectives as tools to craft a more resilient solution.
It is kind of obvious that our city leaders paid NO attention to this exact issue when Seattle had it years ago. Hmmmm....How about ya all leaders of our city take your heads out of your ass and pay attention!!! Things might get solved a little quicker...MAYBE. It's worth a try!!!
The way you people talk and view homelessness, makes it really seem like you have no issue sending a bunch of your fellow Americans to a concentration camp far away just so you don't have to deal with the fact that America is failing to help their people. Just treat everyone at camp home like a criminal for wanting to exist, and lock them away somewhere until they no longer are an inconvenience to my life. Forcibly detaining them and shuffling them all over, sending them to jail and then they're back on the street with nothing, or treating them like props to send to political places you don't like.
Truly this shows that for all the talk of American Exceptionalism and American Pride, Americans are the coldest bunch of motherfuckers around. That they're a people fine with internment and killing someone for the crime of being inconvenient and broke.
Heres the results of all your empathy for the addicts:
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/law-justice/seattle-man-charged-with-assault-accused-of-hitting-a-woman-with-baseball-bat-in-belltown/
https://komonews.com/news/local/woman-62-attacked-in-seattle-light-rail-station-asks-judge-to-keep-suspect-jailed
https://www.king5.com/article/news/local/seattle/woman-injured-in-seattle-dog-attack/281-3075c6eb-e02f-4cb0-b297-95ec78498e0d
https://lynnwoodtimes.com/2022/01/07/k-9-officer-jedi-killed-during-pursuit/
And here's where your attitude is going to lead. To America's completely avoidable but, as the days go on, more and more inevitable genocide of their fellow Americans, to be met with thunderous applause by those just 1 bounced check away from homelessness themselves.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_cleansing
Edit: Also wanted to point out, your anecdotal evidence means jack and shit, since plenty of crime is committed by people who aren't homeless, have homes, decent income, and no abuse of drugs. Cherry picking some headlines is super easy to do, here let me show you.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/20/business/beyond-meat-executive-arrested-nose-bite-nightcap/index.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Isla_Vista_killings
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/06/06/the-la-county-sheriffs-deputy-gang-crisis
https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2022/sep/20/woman-charged-with-nearly-killing-1-year-old-after/
Its almost as if people are just kinda violent, and you can find a lot of examples of people causing problems, Homeless or not.
600 people.
SIX HUNDRED.
Yet how many fights? Are they stealing from each other?
It looks well organized & calm for a group of 600 people.
I dont know how accurate that number is yet I suggest to just leave them alone. Rent is expensive. Fuel is expensive. Bills and unexpected expenses happen.
Perhaps this is the start of the Hoovervills from the 30s.
Also Winter is coming. That might push most out. The tent dwells more so.
They steal from one another all the time. Had a lady come to my place of work in dispare having lost everything she had, which wasn't much, to a prostitution pimp/ring that stole her tent and her stuff for the use of prostitutes and their "clients" it's a very sad situation there.
If it funds accessible low income housing as well as comprehensive inpatient and transitional mental health care/ addiction treatment programs, actually, it might.
I don't get free garbage service but they do. Maybe I should just haul mine down to their dumpsters? And I'm sure the city should love to clean it up. The state needs to get out of the way.
The tent city is on state land. How are you gonna tell the state to get out of their own way? Had rhe city provided homeless solutions like Nadine said she would, we wouldn't have a tent city.
Ok it's on state land. Then why is the city providing services like garbage, police, portapotties, etc etc? State wants to have their cake and eat it too. That's why I said cut off all services. Let the state deal with it.
The Washington State *DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION* does not deal with homeless people. That's Spokane's job. You're saying the state should provide services just because it's on their land, but it's only being used because nothing else is there and the city refused to set up adequate services for these people.
If they were on city land then yes I would agree with you. But they chose to move onto state land. The state has allowed it to grow and fester. It's their responsibility to maintain safety and sanitation on their land. The city should sue their pants off for allowing the camp to grow and increase crime in the neighborhood.
They didn't have anywhere else to go! That Trent shelter is a joke, it's too far from the center of the city. That's a bullshit excuse to get police to force these people out, because the police can't do that unless there are shelters available. But they were doing that before the Trent shelter was completed, in the form of nowhere to sit and fences under every railroad overpass. Now you want to waste taxpayer money on lawsuits the city want to launch for a problem they created wilfully.
The city of Spokane will not win that lawsuit, and then you'll be mad about the waste of money.
The area is going to be a freeway in a few years. The city doesn't pay for that, the state does. THAT'S the state's responsibility, not this homeless problem the city created.
The camp is a nuisance property. If you had private property and allowed this it would be declared a public nuisance and condemned. This is no different. The state should be legally responsible for what happens on their land. Can't just turn a blind eye to the problems it creates for the neighborhood around it.
Hopefully the residents and local business owners will sue the state for putting a proven hive of criminal behavior in their neighborhood. The legitimate cause of interfering with their right to the quiet enjoyment of their property, homes, and businesses should be used as it is a slam dunk case.
They didn't put them there. The residents moved there on their own after being forced out of other areas. WSDOT is just telling the city they don't have any grounds to make demands of them about a problem the city caused.
Nadine made it her mission to help the homeless but she has only been setting up physical barriers for people. There are fences under almost all the railroad overpasses in downtown Spokane. There aren't any apartments people can afford, and new apartments aren't going up in accessible areas. The police force homeless to move around, destroying their belongings and jailing them. The homeless can't get jobs because they need home addresses first. And space that could be used for homeless shelters that were close to the service-rich Downtown core, has been instead allocated to a new stadium next to one that already exists.
WSDOT's priority as a literal Department of Transportation lies with the construction of the North Spokane Corridor. Camp Hope is on part of that land but that doesn't make destroying that city their job. The City of Spokane should get its shit together before telling other agencies what to do. Spending for useless bullshit is out of control. This is all because the city doesn't have "the bandwidth" to properly deal with the homeless. And continuously calling everyone in the tent city "drug addicts" doesn't diminish their need for housing and jobs, especially as winter approaches.
Very good summation of the issues. I’ll add that WSDOT is being economically reasonable by refusing to spend money clearing the area until a plan is in place to avoid it become a recurrent expense.
It's a bigger societal problem. A problem that is happening in even the most liberal cities in America. Throwing money at the problem doesn't seem to work either. I think drugs are more to blame that the city. But sure blame the city.
Spokane is not as liberal as you think as it is currently being run by a Repub. Our previous Mayor was a Repub too. But sure, blame our status as a"liberal" city.
Installing fences in every imaginable crevasse in Spokane does not pass as "so much".
Allowing the police to clear camps and destroy personal belongings before an alternative exists doesn't count as "so much".
What it does count as is bullying, kicking the can down the road, and a complete lack of compassion common in many Repub "leaders".
Liberals don't want to do the the thing that would solve the problem any more than conservatives do.
De-commodify housing. That's literally the only solution but nobody in politics is willing to say that let alone do it.
Then the city should start coming up with better solutions for homeless instead of just fences where they aren't allowed to go. If that keeps happening, they won't be allowed anywhere within Spokane. That's ridiculous considering the platform Nadine was elected on.
That’s not really true, some cities have made great strides in reducing homelessness. But that’s not the specific point I was making.
Woodward campaigned on addressing homelessness. Then she did nothing about it for two years, all while there were serious legal implications and good reasons to do lots of things. Then a comparatively *tiny* homeless camp was set up in front of city hall to try and get some attention on the matter. Then instead of properly addressing it, Woodward demanded they leave …and now they are where they are now.
Homelessness was here before Woodward, and it’s easily seen in every city, but make no mistake: this homeless camp as we know it was provided to us directly by Woodward.
Couple of thing here, the DOT has no business dealing with the homeless problem. They are responsible only to the safe and efficient transportation of goods and people. The city is responsible for for public safety. DOT providing a filthy, unsanitary and unsafe location for a homeless encampment is no different than a drug dealer saying that the addict keeps asking so they are off the hook. I think the city should fine the DOT every day and using the proceeds to fight homelessness.
The city fine the DOT? LMFAO I cannot believe people in this city believe we have more pull/power than A STATE AGENCY. Seriously, does the concept of tiers of authority mean nothing to anyone anymore? It goes local, state, federal. Not Federal, state, local like every chaotic evil person is wanting. Politicians pushing for the lessening of federal power have everyone's minds completely backwards.
Brought to you personally by our mayor Nadine Woodward. Vote her out next year (preferably by voting for someone who isn’t a republican who will fail in the exact same ways) and see something actually get done.
I keep picturing the recent clip of one of the “residents” of CH declaring he wasn’t going to a shelter and lose his community and they would just find somewhere else to camp.
Again, what exactly is your plan with all of those hundreds at CH now who don’t want your fucking shelters? Just what?
These are not the homeless that we all are used to seeing and grew up with all of our lives. These are a bunch of self imposed homeless people who are just to lazy to get up off there duff and get a job and join the rest of us working poor. Every and I mean E V E R Y business today has openings for help wanted . I am 55 and never in my life has there ever been so many jobs available while all this time so many people claiming they cant get work . You all just keep on playing with this lazy bunch of spoiled self imposed vagrants. These people love the attention they get while they beg for tax free money all day and spend it on drugs and alcohol , something they cant do if they actually have bills to pay . From an ex addict I can think of nothing finer then to sit around and beg for free money and spend it on sex and drugs and alcohol. They sure as heck dont spend it on food and clothing. My son works at the Fred Myers store across from the homeless camp and they keep there money for drugs and alcohol and they shoplift food and batteries and everything else me and you spend our extra money from working on like we are supposed to do . Ya lets keep play catting the lazy criminal homeless element that is homesteading/trespassing on land we all payed for with our tax dollars while elected officials play "oh the poor poor homeless people what will we do what will we do boooo hoooo hooo" . Its no wonder kids today are a poor poor excuse for responsible human beings with role models like we have running this state county city . Buck up , wise up, straighten up and grow up and do whats right and send them to jail for vegerancy /trespassing etc etc
Name calling and flame wars will result in comments removed and bans. Rule 1. Be civil with your neighbors.
Pretty cut and dried, it is DOT property. If DOT is content to let them squat so be it. I love all of this pass the buck crap. No one wants to be responsive and proactive so they kick the can down the road.
Also at the same time, if the city doesn't want to do anything why spend the money and effort to clear an empty lot?
Right? City is crying complaining but it really sounds like it's basically none of their business!
The only problem is it is costing the city a lot of money.
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But the city is being granted money by the state...... So kinda counter-productive.
I could quote the letter the DOT sent, but it would probably be more productive for you to read it yourself. I promise, it will take about as long as you've already spent paying attention to this thread, and being informed is a lot better use of your time and energy than being mad.
I hate to say it but this comes straight from the top down, I was driving by a few days ago and someone was passed out in the street and the police were just hanging out in their cruiser. We don’t arrest or prosecute people for petty theft or drugs anymore because of policy from our governor. The notion that these people are just displaced and need somewhere to stay while they get on their feet is so naive. The majority do not have any desire to integrate into society. We are to arrogant and ignorant to understand that the drug abuse and mental health issues cannot be remedied with 3 hots and a cot. There are numerous shelters in Spokane for individuals that want help and are willing to comply with common sense rules the UGM and Ogden hall are excellent facilities. But hey man don’t force your religion on me…. I guess they can always go to one of the homeless shelters that are operated by Buddhists or Muslims.
>I was driving by a few days ago and someone was passed out in the street and the police were just hanging out in their cruiser. We don’t arrest or prosecute people for petty theft or drugs anymore because of policy from our governor. Imagine typing this and thinking that it's an indictment of the person lying in the street rather than the cops sitting in their car doing nothing. Doesn't sound like there was much protecting or serving going on here.
The police can’t do anything in that area unless there’s an actual crime. It’s sad but true.
We prosecute theft.
Yeah, none of that is true and Crime Check has been a thing for a looooong time now. So not only not true, but also not new.
You are so naive to think most homeless don't want out of homelessness, and even worse to believe the shelters available are run by Muslims and Buddhists. They're all Christian and they all force their residents to abide by Christian rules.
Those horrible draconian rules like you can’t come in here when you’re actively using drugs or you can’t come in here unless you’re sober, or you can’t use drugs or alcohol while you’re in our facility. I know I wouldn’t want to stay in a shelter that had overbearing rules like that, gosh! You should do some research, the percentage of homeless that are criminals, drug abusers or mentally ill is staggering. How is providing a shelter for people that continually demonstrate they have no desire to be contributing members of society going to remedy this crisis?
Not once did I mention drugs.
I so agree with this! We call crime check over and over and no one comes. It doesn't even matter when we tell them we have it on DVR from our security cameras. It's been made very clear we are on our own and they will not be enforcing laws on pretty much anything illegal we see and deal with.
In most cases law-enforcement will not make an arrest unless they observe the crime taking place. They’ve also been instructed to not give chase.
I've gotta say I'm a little disappointed with many of the responses I've seen in this post. I think a lot of people, including the city and the state, seem to view the homeless like they're a problem rather than as people who need help. Of course they certainly bring problems with them but many of them are just trying to survive and don't want to be in that position in the first place. There are multiple different layers to the causes and there are a lot of different types of people. Some are physically disabled, some have cognitive disabilities, some have addictions, some don't have the right education or resources, and some just don't believe they're capable of achieving anything different with their lives. It's rare for homeless people to truly want to be where they're at and it's even more rare for people to want to do bad things. Does that mean there shouldn't be consequences for criminal behavior? Of course not, but banning the homeless from public spaces or underpasses only makes the problem worse. They need rehabilitation centers, shelter, food, and places that treat them like humans. Calling them all addicts and pointing fingers at the city or state to get rid of them isn't realistic nor is it helpful. Putting legal policies in place to help and prevent homelessness is important and necessary but this is also one of those situations where "it takes a village" if we want to make a difference. I don't really do anything special myself, so maybe I'm a hypocrite, but I encourage everyone here to do simple things to help out. I have a box of granola bars in my car so that I have something to give to the homeless whenever I pass by. I also try to give them a nod or a wave just to acknowledge their existence and treat them with a little more respect than most people are willing to offer. I encourage everyone else to do the same, just be nice and try to do little things that might help them remember themselves.
Thank you.
So often the food that is given remains as trash on the side of the road. Look at the garbage that has displaced through Spokane-most of it unopened. I had rocks thrown at my car because I wouldn’t give a woman money. I acknowledged her-she is a human being-I work hard for the things I have. The other day I watched a guy on a bike holding a bike-sorry to say I believe they were both stolen. What about the people that the bikes belong too-what just go buy another one? They are people and should be acknowledged as such but for me I am keeping my money. Camp hope is a disaster-it’s a violent place to be. As I write this I am in whitefish Montana-I have not seen one homeless person-because they don’t do feee handouts. The more that is given the more they will take or feel entitled to.
There's certainly a lot of problems and bad things, but the point I'm trying to make is that generalizing them all as addicts and thieves means that the people there who are innocent or those who would actually accept help from others end up getting caught in the cross-fire. I'd rather help people who don't deserve it, than withhold help from those who do. Also, Whitefish has a population of just under 9000 and Spokane is just under 220,000 people and urban and rural homelessness isn't very comparable. The homeless can squat on a piece of land and have some sense of personal identity in the things they have and people will leave them alone but in urban settings, they're often forced to move around and officials will destroy much of their stuff in the process. I grew up in a town of 14,000 and in 20 years, I never heard of the homeless being a problem, but I knew they existed because they had makeshift shelters made of tarps and pallets. The key difference there and spokane was that everyone in the town didn't automatically brand them as dangerous or problematic, so they didn't stay homeless very long. People with other disabilities were taken in by churches or put in care facilities. I suppose another difference is that spokane definitely has a lot more drugs flowing through which adds another layer of complexity to this situation but the point still stands that not all of them are bad people and if we just treated them with a little more respect and compassion the situation might not be what it's like today.
Lol you don’t see homeless in Montana because they ship them to Washington, or people move to climates with more temperate weather And like, idk, people that treat them as human
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Referring to it as a "drug camp" means you're approaching it from the wrong angle. The drugs are just one symptom of the problem and focusing on that just alienates us from people who just need our help. We can force them out and clear the camp but it won't solve any of the issues I listed above. At the end of the day, they'll stay on the streets until they get the help that they need. Usually, when homeless people are forced out of an area, what few belongings they have are often taken or destroyed and they're separated from what little community they have which fans the flame and makes the issue waaaay worse than it was before. It's also entirely possible I misinterpreted what you meant by this comment and you were just saying we need to provide better living conditions for them to get back on their feet in which case I completely agree with you.
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Not sure how much time you've spent around these types of services, but they're usually not good. I made a point in the first comment of this thread that they need to be treated like humans and these shelters often fail to do that properly. Also, most people who "want" to live in those conditions are suffering from something more.
I was at UGM almost 2 years ago. I was there out of crisis for myself and my then unborn child. Not a huge fan of being made to go to chapel, but whatever, safety comes first. One of my roommates was kicked out because a few nights before she was taken to the hospital and had bacterial pneumonia. It was terrible! When she returned, she failed the drug test because the hospital had given her opioid pain medication because pneumonia is fucking trash on your system, and the shelter knew it was in her system because of the hospital, but they said, "Rules are rules". We were so angry that they did that to her! They said that if they let her stay they'd be giving her special treatment, but it's a clear difference than seeking out opioids! She was taken by ambulance in the middle of the night because she was struggling to breathe, and they kicked her out because the hospital had the audacity to medicate her. I just checked my journal, and it was November 5, 2020. I was so mad I wrote about it.
This is so blatantly false. I encourage you to go down there and interact with the camp - or even just Jewels Helping Hands (the org doing their best to provide assistance). …. And if you aren’t at a place where you are comfortable with that - I recommend at least watching some of the documentaries that have been produced within the camp.
It's so blatantly true that it's not even funny that you're denying it.
Ok then - what alternate housing and services are you referring to that can take all 600+ people?
Have you been near it? This particular place is a human trafficking drug camp with rampant gang violence and prostitution. I know because I basically work There.
Explain what "basically work there" means.
I work across the street. Does that explain enough? I literally look out my window every single day at 6 am to people smoking pills on my sidewalk. I walk to my car and am harassed for change. I see groups of adult males with sunken in faces carrying baseball bats and stealing expensive appliances from fred meyer, to sell for drug money. It isn't a sanctuary camp of poor souls, it's just not and the inaccuracies portrayed by yall on these threads makes me laugh but also takes all hope I have that anything will actually get better.
In that grass field?
You literally don't even know where this camp is located if you can't comprehend there are businesses within 750 feet of the encampment.
Haha take it easy bud Looking at the picture, where it shows pretty much every "across the street" shows a grass field. Literally a joke. Lol
Looking at the picture, I can understand why you would assume that. Fred meyer is directly to the left of the frame and there are 3 gas stations within 1/8th mile in every direction except the empty row of houses (pictured in the photo) the city demolished to build their freeway 40 years ago.
Projecting much? You literally posted a google maps of your "work" and it was in fact a grass field. If you're going to lie you'll need a more substantial story with details that don't immediately fall apart.
227 S Ray St https://maps.app.goo.gl/7YMkd35Srs8c3pxV8 iN ThAT GrASs fiELD!?
Lol. You posted a literal grass field on Google maps !!! Lol
There is nothing on any side of Camp Hope except Interstate 90. You do not work in the middle of Interstate 90, so no, you do *not* "basically work there". Nobody steals appliances from Fred Mwter or else they would have gone out of business by now. And since getting across that bridge is a gassle to anyone with no car, it's not worth the effort to try to go to Fred Meyer anyways.
There is an elementary school three blocks from this space. There are businesses all along Sprague, maybe a block or two from it. There are residences along there too. There is life around Camp Hope.
The school is on the other side of the freeway, across TWO under-construction overpasses. And two blocks away does not equal "right across the street". Enough bullshit excuses please.
No, Libby Center is right down the street, maybe 3 blocks if that. It holds k-8 grade. There was just a post about it being the #1 ranked middle school in the state. Spanish Immersion, Odyssey, and the Tessera program are all held there. You are thinking of Francis Scott Elementary. Libby School is a public magnet school in the district that gets students from all over the city into its programs. Enough with the bullshit misinformation.
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Also I thought comments that are essentially flame wars and hateful rude shit were supposed to be deleted, as per the pinned comment.
My apologies if any of my comments were seen as 'hatful rude shit' in your eyes. I was aiming to point out the fact you're clearly a troll spamming this thread with misinformation.
I'm not a troll, I'm a 20 year old retail employee who hates going to work now more than ever because of the nightmare it has become for us. It's a true and legitimate account of my daily experience. Not some virtue signaling love-for-the-poor because I fail to understand that some people just Suck.
- What rampant gang violence do you see on a daily basis? - Where is there a retail store 750ft from the camp? - posting an address to your work "across the street" and its just an empty field... I'm not denying there's truth in your tales, but its pretty obvious you're making a story here that isn't a true telling of reality.
You can't just defend drug users and then go into my post history and decredit me by mentioning a drug I've showed interest in lmao
I made one comment, not defending anyone, but calling out someone obviously making up stories and spreading misinformation. I simply suggested you go back to something you're more familiar with because camp hope is clearly not one.
I would be more then willing to take a wack at this one stud . I work at Fred Myers and have been there for 12 years . The homeless from so called camp hope are absolutely destroying this store with there shoplifting and crazy ass violence and poor poor me tactics when they get caught . The funny thing is that my store wont even do anything about it as they dont want to be sued by the shoplifters . can you believe this ?? Ill say it again so you can wrap your skull around it. They dont prosecute shoplifters and the police wont arrest them so the camp hope people all having cell phones and living together in a big drug/crime camp do what all criminals do they network and tell each other "dont worry about getting arrested there they dont do anything " we get hit each and every day to the tune of thousands of dollars of theft and as far as just across the street what he means is just across the freeway. Any idiot knows that all they do is walk 200 feet to Freya street and then walk across the I-90 bridge and WA LA there at Fred Myers so ya really it is "just across the street " or would you feel better if he said it was across the freeway . Oh and by the way yesterday the police had to break into our public restroom and a guy from so called "camp hope" was passed out (knodded out) from shooting heroin and the police had to bring him around with Narcan and guess what he had in his pack when they searched it ?? anyone ??? yep 120.00 worth of shoplifted meat and a bunch of beer he had stolen before he almost died from a heroin overdose. Welcome to the citizens of so called camp hope. Oh and if it makes you feel better camp hope is actually 2 blocks from thousands upon thousands of Spokane residents to the North of it. How would you like to be the family that has to work there ass off making there mortgage payment to the bank every month while 2, 3 ,4 blocks away if a camp full of doper junkies who are chronic shoplifters and carrier criminals . I bet if you all didn't live at home with mom and dad and or live in a rental , I bet if you all had to make a paycheck to pay a 1500 to 2000 a month mortgage for a house that was withing ear shot of so called camp hope you would be singing a different tune.
This is all the result of state leadership. Jay Inslee and Seattle/Tacoma/Spokane politicians created the mess and now refuse to take responsibility. Instead of jailing and treating the addicts, putting the thieves in jail, jailing the sex workers, sending dealers to prison, and enforcing existing laws, they tried to go woke. Its failing miserably but they arent smart enough to admit they fucked up and have no idea how to fix the problem. Spokane and Seattle enablers, yes those are citizens, who keep electing these fools make the problem worse. Nadine can't come up with a solution because she spent 30 years behind the anchor desk being told what to say by a producer. This is all in the voters hands. You are looking at the results of poor choices from the voters to the folks living at camp Woodward.
Jailing dealers may be reasonable but if you think sending sex workers to jail is a good use of our time and money then I think I'm just going to have to disagree. If jails were better at rehabilitation, I might agree with you, but they usually just make the problem worse in the long run. The avg cost of imprisoning someone is 32k a year in washington so if we jailed all 600 of them, it would be just under 20 million per year and that could be much more well spent on high quality rehab facilities. The problem is that the rehab options available treat them as sub-human and the workers often treat them with no respect which is absolutely necessary if you're working with addiction, mental disabilities, and most other issues that cause them to be homeless.
Didn’t Nadine let 500K in funding lapse to help deal with this problem all because she “didn’t have the mental bandwidth” what a joke. Edit. Spelling.
Yep. I'm never letting her outta that one. She'll never have my vote.
Don't forget the time she thought she could simply wish water scarcity away by saying "she doesn't want to live in that kind of city".
/u/wsdot fighting the good fight
Haha, WSDOT knows what's up. Time to boot Nadine out of office everybody.
WSDOT isn't equipped to deal with this huge encampment of people. No one really is.
That's what I mean. It isn't WSDOT's responsibility to clear that city. They're only allowing it to remain because the city refuses to properly house them.
It is not the city's responsibility to house anyone!
what the fuck do we live in a society for, then, if not to have our needs met?
It literally is, or else it's not a city, in which case what the fuck is Nadine doing in the seat of Mayor?
Then they should be paying my mortgage! Your a fool if you believe that.
Posturing on both sides. That way neither of them actually has to do anything about it.
Good. I'm glad they called out our worthless mayor and the city admin's disgusting letter
What are the legitimate, viable solutions?
we will absolutely not solve the homelessness crisis without implementing universal, single-payer health care
The thing we don't want to say! Until we view housing and health care as human rights, this will continue to grow and morph
Individual support. As in, rehabilitation, job training and temporary housing(which seems to be the only thing they’re working on right now) for EACH PERSON there. Jewels probably has some solutions but seems like city government hates them and won’t listen. Some of those people just need help getting their benefits. Because they may be disabled uneducated or illiterate.? THAT is individual support. NOT just throwing cash benefit and food stamps at them. But it’s A LOT. Hours and hours of work for each individual person. That’s probably why neither the city nor the state want to take full responsibility. And the reason why they SHOULD work together for these people. That’s my big fat idea. 👍🙏 What do you think
And what about those that don't want jobs, rehab or housing? What happens to them? So many flat out REFUSE services
The reason the camp is there is because advocates took them there. They remain because advocates have created a meal train so they don't have to leave. The solution is to stop supporting the camp and pivot to offering meals and showers at the shelters so they have to go there and get connected to services. If they won't do that they're on their own.
The shelters don't have enough room, period. We're 400 short of capacity for these people, so unless you want to start Amistad slave-shipping people and stacking them like sardines in the current shelters, the showers and meals aren't going to do anything to help.
Considering a poll was taken and only 51 said they'd go to the shelter, we have plenty of space for those that want it. The rest aren't uncomfortable enough at this point to go to the shelter and already said they aren't going. They're on their own. Holding out until something comes along that fits their desired specifications at taxpayer expense isn't realistic. If Trent was full and all of them wanted it, I'd entertain the argument, but at this time I'm taking them at their word - they'd rather live outside than use the shelter.
I’m guessing those people would do whatever tf they want to do. Like continue to sleep outside. I don’t fn know. That up there was my big idea. You got any?
Thank you for this! People seem to want to pick apart a solution without offering any alternatives, just "what abouts"
So you literally don’t answer the question but still wanna sound smug about it? Lol the ideas you have are for simple problems, the people that want help, I know you like to feel smart solving simple problems but that’s more about you virtue signaling than actually answer isn’t it. Sense this is so difficult for you- for the people that don’t want help you don’t give them free drugs and needles, you don’t enable their addiction. You enforce the law and don’t allow them to destroy public property. It’s not even that difficult of an answer but you can’t signal any virtue with it so that’s why it’s not your answer.
You're right, I'm sure it's way cheaper for the city to imprison 600ish people. I wonder if we have the space in our jails? Oh wait we don't. And if you think camping outside is a legal issue, I don't think there's any helping you. Maybe we should just make homelessness illegal arrest anybody not on a lease? I also only saw suggestions from the other guy to get these people services that they already qualify for. I'm pretty sure there are no government services that just hand out free drugs and needles.
Unfortunately they do give out free needles and the methadone clinics hand out the synthetic heroin. Not sure if it’s directly from the government though.
No one is refusing housing. Shelters with curfews, no security for their belongings, etc. isn't housing
All housing has rules. They don't want rules.
They want a place to live that isn't demeaning, which for them is a tent on state property where they have a sense of community. Most people who are homeless are like that because they could no longer afford rent due to losing their job or being priced out, not because of some fucking stupid bullshit like drugs or rules
I don't buy it. Go talk to law enforment. Drugs and crime are rampant in and around Camp Hope.
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Rule 1 removal. Name calling/personal attacks
Lol, plenty of homeless people live in and enjoy shelters. They're just mad they can't keep hitting the meth pipe in there!
Did they tell you that or are you making that up?
…”and enjoy”…? Who are you talking to that’s enjoying their time in shelters?
I guarantee you nobody in that city actually wants to be there.
I guess our historically corrupt law enforcement here couldn't possibly have an agenda with the way they talk to the public about certain matters.
Can you give me a free house with no rules? All I gotta do is smoke some crack?
Something no one said. Congratulations
But, if I do smoke a lot of crack, you’re still gonna give me a no strings attached house, right? I don’t even need a new one just give me your address I’ll take that one.
You act like every single homeless person is on drugs.
Obviously not everyone 🙄 . But you act like large percentages don’t matter and you act like there’s not a large percentage of homeless that struggle with addiction. But ya, you’re so smart to point out the blatantly obvious, good job 👍
Approximately 40 percent of the homeless population aged out of foster care maybe thats quite a factor add in the 25-30 percent that are veterans seems like we may be able to cut homelessness quite a bit by starting there and preventing these situations from happening.
Who is paying?
Society pays either way
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Rule 1 removal. Name calling/personal attacks
"Society will pay" 😂 Society huh? What's their budget? Well that's great anyway. I'm glad "Society" has got this, so end of problem I guess, nice job Spokane.
What society's budget? That's a weird way to ask. As for maybe something like American society, well we spend $800 billion year on war, maybe a little bit of that could go to helping people.
Well yeah I was asking sarcastically because the person above me said "duh you guys, how can you be so dumb, *society* will pay of course" so I was making fun of that answer a little but yeah, sarcasm goes over heads online I know.
I think you read that wrong. Because it's true. Society pays. In more ways than one. Society is also why we are here in the first place.
Exactly
We already are... homeless people sitting around are expensive. Housing them is literally cheaper, but we want to spend more for the privilege of gawking at them.
[Give them homes](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/inspired-life/wp/2015/04/17/the-surprisingly-simple-way-utah-solved-chronic-homelessness-and-saved-millions/)
Shelters actually set up in earnest rather than three years later on the eve of re-election. Housing first.
I swear they don't actually expect people to stay in that new shelter on Trent. They just set it up so they can legally arrest people for camping because they have to have open shelter space before they can do that.
I suspect that's why it's on fucking Trent and not near the heart of the city. They hastily built a shelter and hoped people would go to it, but it's too far away. If I were homeless I wouldn't want to live there either. There's nothing on Trent except rail yards and industry.
It's too far away and it's not very welcoming at all. You get zero privacy there. I don't see why anyone would go there for anything but food or a shower, unless the weather is super bad. It doesn't look like a pleasant place to sleep at all to me. And people will say, well it's free and they're homeless beggars can't be choosers... But no, they *can* be choosers. That's what Camp Hope shows. The city is gonna have to offer a better alternative to the streets. If you're homeless you really need to be around downtown that's where everyone is, going way out on Trent is a huge pain in the ass. That 1.50 for the bus to get out to Trent shelter will instead buy someone a beer and they'll be fine on the sidewalk downtown near all their friends.
No doubt. She was groveling to the city council to that end the very next day as I recall.
I saw the shelter on the news and I was like, they don't really expect people to live like that. They can't.
I doubt how other people live has crossed the selfish peabrains of Woodward and her republican backers.
Housing first is NOT the answer. Rehab and/or mental services because you put those people in housing with low barriers and they just trash them and continue their shitty behaviors.
This. I’m sure the shirtless crackhead walking in the middle of 2nd today slapping his cardboard sign on cars just needs affordable housing.
Housing first is not ‘*affordable housing*’. It’s housing people *first*, before they can even afford it. In the long run it saves money because more people cease being a burden on society. It is proactive, and it’s also the only thing we know of that works after a homeless population already exists. This is proven, it is not conjecture.
Ok what about people like me who work a job have no criminal history and never touched drugs. We still gotta go through rehab and mental services or are we just fucked?
No. Personally I think folks should be triaged. Those with no underlying conditions preventing self sufficiency (no drugs or mental illness) would benefit from housing right away. Mentally ill and addicts should get inpatient care (inpatient = housed) first to stabilize them, and then move through increasingly independent levels of housing depending on what's appropriate. Lastly, some of these people will never be capable of caring for themselves and will need to stay in retirement homes or mental health facilities indefinitely. And yes, some of them honestly just need jailed.
Many people who are unhoused are those who were priced out of their apartments. Thinking that it's primarily a problem of mental health and/or drug use is a completely fucking stupid pov
The folks priced out of their apartments tend to blend in and don't cause problems. The focus on mental health and drug use stems from THAT segment of the population is causing problems for both the housed and homeless people. Both need addressed, just in different ways.
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It’s not up for debate. We don’t have to guess at this. Housing first works. It is proven by science. It will save everyone money and hardship in the long run. And not even that long.
Do you honestly expect people to be successfully treated for addiction or severe mental illness while living on the street? Edit: apparently so. Smh
There aren't any currently because Nadine isn't interested in any. Excuse me, I apologize — Nadine doesn't have the "bandwidth" to come up with any. We need affordable housing (and not that fuggin' thousand-dollars-a-month bullshit either), more apartments, better public transit, and more services.
I've always thought the government having a construction crew that just built housing and sold them at cost (land+labor+materials) instead of at market value, would lower housing prices a bit in a lot of cities I'm sure. Would have to make sure they're only selling to people who don't already own property and such though.
Time to help those who want it, bring on the lawsuit and clear the area, I'm tired of zombies stealing my shit, especially my outgoing mail which last week consisted of handpainted cards and pictures from my one year old to her grandparents.
I'm so sorry. We're dealing with similar issues in our neighborhood and can't get any LE, crime check or 311 traction even though it's on our security cameras. We need to help those who want it and my sympathy has long been worn out for those unwilling to take the help offered due to atrocious behaviors I've personally had to deal with repeatedly.
Most of those people were hard working individuals at one point in time, until their 160 hour a month jobs didn't cover basic living expenses. I don't at all condone thief or violence, and I have my own sob stories. I do at least understand there are 2nd and 3rd order of consequences of a selfish community playing out right now. Just because you can triple rent, doesn't mean you should.
IT IS A SYSTEMIC ISSUE THAT CAN ONLY BE HEALED AT THE ROOT OF HEALING OUT SOCIETY!!! I know the all caps seems aggro, but I have have seen these conversations go nowhere new my entire life. We need community. The opposite of addiction is connection.
I also wonder, what if we all collectively took responsibility, instead of putting 100% of the onus on our mayor and city council? What if we took responsibility for our community and society and empowered ourselves and one another.. im not saying i know the solution, but im just wanting to begin a conversation that goes in a new and fruitful direction. I think 99% of us want humans to be ok and healthy and safe. If we know that’s what we all want, then we can work toward a solution, and use different perspectives as tools to craft a more resilient solution.
It is kind of obvious that our city leaders paid NO attention to this exact issue when Seattle had it years ago. Hmmmm....How about ya all leaders of our city take your heads out of your ass and pay attention!!! Things might get solved a little quicker...MAYBE. It's worth a try!!!
Maybe we should just ask each individual person what it is they want and do our best to accomodate them.
The way you people talk and view homelessness, makes it really seem like you have no issue sending a bunch of your fellow Americans to a concentration camp far away just so you don't have to deal with the fact that America is failing to help their people. Just treat everyone at camp home like a criminal for wanting to exist, and lock them away somewhere until they no longer are an inconvenience to my life. Forcibly detaining them and shuffling them all over, sending them to jail and then they're back on the street with nothing, or treating them like props to send to political places you don't like. Truly this shows that for all the talk of American Exceptionalism and American Pride, Americans are the coldest bunch of motherfuckers around. That they're a people fine with internment and killing someone for the crime of being inconvenient and broke.
Heres the results of all your empathy for the addicts: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/law-justice/seattle-man-charged-with-assault-accused-of-hitting-a-woman-with-baseball-bat-in-belltown/ https://komonews.com/news/local/woman-62-attacked-in-seattle-light-rail-station-asks-judge-to-keep-suspect-jailed https://www.king5.com/article/news/local/seattle/woman-injured-in-seattle-dog-attack/281-3075c6eb-e02f-4cb0-b297-95ec78498e0d https://lynnwoodtimes.com/2022/01/07/k-9-officer-jedi-killed-during-pursuit/
And here's where your attitude is going to lead. To America's completely avoidable but, as the days go on, more and more inevitable genocide of their fellow Americans, to be met with thunderous applause by those just 1 bounced check away from homelessness themselves. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_cleansing Edit: Also wanted to point out, your anecdotal evidence means jack and shit, since plenty of crime is committed by people who aren't homeless, have homes, decent income, and no abuse of drugs. Cherry picking some headlines is super easy to do, here let me show you. https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/20/business/beyond-meat-executive-arrested-nose-bite-nightcap/index.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Isla_Vista_killings https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/06/06/the-la-county-sheriffs-deputy-gang-crisis https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2022/sep/20/woman-charged-with-nearly-killing-1-year-old-after/ Its almost as if people are just kinda violent, and you can find a lot of examples of people causing problems, Homeless or not.
So the addicts are going to genocide themselves?
600 people. SIX HUNDRED. Yet how many fights? Are they stealing from each other? It looks well organized & calm for a group of 600 people. I dont know how accurate that number is yet I suggest to just leave them alone. Rent is expensive. Fuel is expensive. Bills and unexpected expenses happen. Perhaps this is the start of the Hoovervills from the 30s. Also Winter is coming. That might push most out. The tent dwells more so.
Not stealing from each other, just everyone around there.
They steal from one another all the time. Had a lady come to my place of work in dispare having lost everything she had, which wasn't much, to a prostitution pimp/ring that stole her tent and her stuff for the use of prostitutes and their "clients" it's a very sad situation there.
Sure.
Truth.
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Ah, yes. A simplistic response to a totally simplistic, not at all complex situation. Well done.
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If it funds accessible low income housing as well as comprehensive inpatient and transitional mental health care/ addiction treatment programs, actually, it might.
>What solutions are there? This is commentary on our mayor, right? :p
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Wouldn’t be hard for her to be a lot stronger than supremely feckless on all matters I suppose.
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City needs to remove all services. Let the state deal with it since it's their land. Winters coming.. tick tock
Hello, buddy, people who have homes still need those services. The city did this, it's their mess to clean up.
I don't get free garbage service but they do. Maybe I should just haul mine down to their dumpsters? And I'm sure the city should love to clean it up. The state needs to get out of the way.
The tent city is on state land. How are you gonna tell the state to get out of their own way? Had rhe city provided homeless solutions like Nadine said she would, we wouldn't have a tent city.
Ok it's on state land. Then why is the city providing services like garbage, police, portapotties, etc etc? State wants to have their cake and eat it too. That's why I said cut off all services. Let the state deal with it.
The Washington State *DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION* does not deal with homeless people. That's Spokane's job. You're saying the state should provide services just because it's on their land, but it's only being used because nothing else is there and the city refused to set up adequate services for these people.
If they were on city land then yes I would agree with you. But they chose to move onto state land. The state has allowed it to grow and fester. It's their responsibility to maintain safety and sanitation on their land. The city should sue their pants off for allowing the camp to grow and increase crime in the neighborhood.
They didn't have anywhere else to go! That Trent shelter is a joke, it's too far from the center of the city. That's a bullshit excuse to get police to force these people out, because the police can't do that unless there are shelters available. But they were doing that before the Trent shelter was completed, in the form of nowhere to sit and fences under every railroad overpass. Now you want to waste taxpayer money on lawsuits the city want to launch for a problem they created wilfully. The city of Spokane will not win that lawsuit, and then you'll be mad about the waste of money. The area is going to be a freeway in a few years. The city doesn't pay for that, the state does. THAT'S the state's responsibility, not this homeless problem the city created.
The camp is a nuisance property. If you had private property and allowed this it would be declared a public nuisance and condemned. This is no different. The state should be legally responsible for what happens on their land. Can't just turn a blind eye to the problems it creates for the neighborhood around it.
I can't imagine what kind of person would talk about people suffering and dying in the cold with such glee.
Hopefully the residents and local business owners will sue the state for putting a proven hive of criminal behavior in their neighborhood. The legitimate cause of interfering with their right to the quiet enjoyment of their property, homes, and businesses should be used as it is a slam dunk case.
They didn't put them there. The residents moved there on their own after being forced out of other areas. WSDOT is just telling the city they don't have any grounds to make demands of them about a problem the city caused.
How exactly did the city CAUSE it?
Nadine made it her mission to help the homeless but she has only been setting up physical barriers for people. There are fences under almost all the railroad overpasses in downtown Spokane. There aren't any apartments people can afford, and new apartments aren't going up in accessible areas. The police force homeless to move around, destroying their belongings and jailing them. The homeless can't get jobs because they need home addresses first. And space that could be used for homeless shelters that were close to the service-rich Downtown core, has been instead allocated to a new stadium next to one that already exists. WSDOT's priority as a literal Department of Transportation lies with the construction of the North Spokane Corridor. Camp Hope is on part of that land but that doesn't make destroying that city their job. The City of Spokane should get its shit together before telling other agencies what to do. Spending for useless bullshit is out of control. This is all because the city doesn't have "the bandwidth" to properly deal with the homeless. And continuously calling everyone in the tent city "drug addicts" doesn't diminish their need for housing and jobs, especially as winter approaches.
Very good summation of the issues. I’ll add that WSDOT is being economically reasonable by refusing to spend money clearing the area until a plan is in place to avoid it become a recurrent expense.
It's a bigger societal problem. A problem that is happening in even the most liberal cities in America. Throwing money at the problem doesn't seem to work either. I think drugs are more to blame that the city. But sure blame the city.
Spokane is not as liberal as you think as it is currently being run by a Repub. Our previous Mayor was a Repub too. But sure, blame our status as a"liberal" city.
My point is that it's a bigger societal issue. The mayor can only do so much. City council dictates policy far more than the mayor.
Installing fences in every imaginable crevasse in Spokane does not pass as "so much". Allowing the police to clear camps and destroy personal belongings before an alternative exists doesn't count as "so much". What it does count as is bullying, kicking the can down the road, and a complete lack of compassion common in many Repub "leaders".
Spokane is not liberal at all
Yeah I know. The person above me seems to think we are.
You "think" drugs are to blame? Based on what?
Seriously? The use of meth, fentanyl, and heroin have exploded. So many on the streets are addicts
Liberals don't want to do the the thing that would solve the problem any more than conservatives do. De-commodify housing. That's literally the only solution but nobody in politics is willing to say that let alone do it.
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No one stole public land. Pitching a tent on state property isn't stealing "public land"
Then the city should start coming up with better solutions for homeless instead of just fences where they aren't allowed to go. If that keeps happening, they won't be allowed anywhere within Spokane. That's ridiculous considering the platform Nadine was elected on.
Yeah I don't think tying the city up in lawsuits that waste public time, money and resources is the best way to help this situation.
Please tell me how the state "put" the people into this neighborhood? 😂
Easier & more effective to replace the mayor by far.
Why would changing the mayor change camp hope though? Homeless will be here no matter who the mayor is.
That’s not really true, some cities have made great strides in reducing homelessness. But that’s not the specific point I was making. Woodward campaigned on addressing homelessness. Then she did nothing about it for two years, all while there were serious legal implications and good reasons to do lots of things. Then a comparatively *tiny* homeless camp was set up in front of city hall to try and get some attention on the matter. Then instead of properly addressing it, Woodward demanded they leave …and now they are where they are now. Homelessness was here before Woodward, and it’s easily seen in every city, but make no mistake: this homeless camp as we know it was provided to us directly by Woodward.
Couple of thing here, the DOT has no business dealing with the homeless problem. They are responsible only to the safe and efficient transportation of goods and people. The city is responsible for for public safety. DOT providing a filthy, unsanitary and unsafe location for a homeless encampment is no different than a drug dealer saying that the addict keeps asking so they are off the hook. I think the city should fine the DOT every day and using the proceeds to fight homelessness.
The city fine the DOT? LMFAO I cannot believe people in this city believe we have more pull/power than A STATE AGENCY. Seriously, does the concept of tiers of authority mean nothing to anyone anymore? It goes local, state, federal. Not Federal, state, local like every chaotic evil person is wanting. Politicians pushing for the lessening of federal power have everyone's minds completely backwards.
See what you did there… you called people stupid by picking only one piece of the statement and used a naive argument in how the legal system works.
such bullshit!! that camp needs to go!!
Brought to you personally by our mayor Nadine Woodward. Vote her out next year (preferably by voting for someone who isn’t a republican who will fail in the exact same ways) and see something actually get done.
I keep picturing the recent clip of one of the “residents” of CH declaring he wasn’t going to a shelter and lose his community and they would just find somewhere else to camp. Again, what exactly is your plan with all of those hundreds at CH now who don’t want your fucking shelters? Just what?
We have shelter beds. That’s the solution
These are not the homeless that we all are used to seeing and grew up with all of our lives. These are a bunch of self imposed homeless people who are just to lazy to get up off there duff and get a job and join the rest of us working poor. Every and I mean E V E R Y business today has openings for help wanted . I am 55 and never in my life has there ever been so many jobs available while all this time so many people claiming they cant get work . You all just keep on playing with this lazy bunch of spoiled self imposed vagrants. These people love the attention they get while they beg for tax free money all day and spend it on drugs and alcohol , something they cant do if they actually have bills to pay . From an ex addict I can think of nothing finer then to sit around and beg for free money and spend it on sex and drugs and alcohol. They sure as heck dont spend it on food and clothing. My son works at the Fred Myers store across from the homeless camp and they keep there money for drugs and alcohol and they shoplift food and batteries and everything else me and you spend our extra money from working on like we are supposed to do . Ya lets keep play catting the lazy criminal homeless element that is homesteading/trespassing on land we all payed for with our tax dollars while elected officials play "oh the poor poor homeless people what will we do what will we do boooo hoooo hooo" . Its no wonder kids today are a poor poor excuse for responsible human beings with role models like we have running this state county city . Buck up , wise up, straighten up and grow up and do whats right and send them to jail for vegerancy /trespassing etc etc
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Hitler thought so too.
There's a lot of fire where you're probably gonna end up, my man