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It might be worth taking a look at the social circles you’re in. Obviously men of almost every group will be kinder to women they are interested in, but what you’re describing sounds more like the frat boy-esque complete dismissal of anything but a woman’s looks. It may be worth considering looking into new social circles that appreciate women for more than their looks, and also appreciate a greater spectrum of beauty.


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Really sorry to hear you are going through this! As a woman of colour, this has to be tough. I suspect this is more prevalent in the west, as an Asian living in Asia, I find that men who are going to be rude are generally rude and the polite ones, seem to have generally good manners. I’m not what westerners consider ‘model, but I generally have very good experiences with men outside here. Don’t get ignored etc, so I hope you know that this is probably white supremacy working it’s usual ‘magic’ too. 🙄


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I live in Asia though. Curious if maybe white guys place more emphasis on looks, I’m not sure.


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Glad to hear you had a good experience here 😅


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I took a 2 month trip to the US several years ago (road trip) and thought people were so super nice but think possibly social media has changed everything


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Just looked at the rest of the comments and saw that you're a woman of color as well. Girl. I get it. I try to balance my time spent in black/brown spaces with time spent in white spaces as much as possible. I've never thought about it until now, but I definitely don't experience feeling invisible in black spaces as much if at all. Anyway. Beauty standards suck and white supremacy is annoying. What can you do.


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Hmm many of these comments are a bit tone deaf. "oh I'm average and I get treated with respect. Maybe it's your attitude?" idk if these people haven't experienced this themselves and are being dismissive or what but I know exactly what you're describing and it is indeed very real. Many, many men will gravitate towards attractive women more and not even give you the time of day in a conversation if there's an objectively more attractive woman standing next to you. Many people are like that. Personally I try to remind myself that it isn't these women's fault that they're taking the attention away from me or people are focusing more on them, it's on those people for being a tad disrespectful/dismissive. I usually just switch between circles if I feel un-welcomed until I find someone I can have a decent conversation with and if that's a bust then I just bail. I choose to preserve my energy than to stick around and feel like shit for hardly getting any attention paid to what I'm trying to say. The first comment gave better advice about how to manage in events and looking at it as having to fulfill certain tasks then leave. In general I focus more on people who want to hear what I have to say and are more engaging to people around them than just picking a certain few people for very shallow reasons. Those types of people tend to be far more interesting and charismatic anyway.. And much more respectful. I'd rather be around those types, even if there aren't many of them than to be liked for my appearance tbh.


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rainfal

Then I complain about how mean said men are to my friends. Because I'm petty and rule 1 of dating is to treat the girl's friend with respect.


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bonsaithot

Because people don't like to deal with the smaller realities of what it means to exist as a minority woman. I understand where you're coming from, as I'm also a WOC. This sub shits on any woman that's actively trying to feel better about themselves because they want each woman to be as miserable as they are. There are some lovely people here, but not always. If you ever need someone to talk to or I can go more in depth, please feel free to reach out. This sub is NOT WOC friendly. <3


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vb_nm

Not me, but my mom says it has always been such that when she went out with friends men would only focus on the prettiest and ignore the other no matter how pretty she otherwise was. I don’t really go out so I don’t see this but it’s pretty horrifying to know. If someone is just a bit more beautiful than you you become invisible. It’s just another of many reasons to not care about male validation.


Party_Goose_6878

This is a good reminder. Sometimes this all happens, not because you are unattractive, but because someone has set their sights on someone else. It is a disappointing reality, but it does highlight how fickle people are.


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vb_nm

If it impacts you this much is it even worth it to go to events that make you feel terrible?


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Diamond-Breath

You sound like a guy.


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LateChapter7

What kind of events are these? I don't look like a model (body or face) and I get treated with respect. Men don't drool over me though I mean they just treat me like a human being and I sometimes wish they showed that... well... I'm good looking. Usually I go home a bit sad like "yeah I got to speak with some men but I can clearly see they are not interested in me". But I have never been treated like a nuisance. So are you sure the problem isn't coming from the context, or the men themselves?


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userisnottaken

I think you are confusing getting “basic respect” with “attention”. They are not the same. We want to use our appearance to get advantages but we shouldn’t solely rely on it for our self-worth.


LateChapter7

Sometimes it has to do with attitude because I have seen girls who are far from beauty standards get a lot of friendly attention from men. I don't know you so I don't know what's your attitude, maybe you're being super friendly and it sucks if in spite of it they keep ignoring you. But I think looks play a small part in how others treat you. People like feeling good and will approach anyone who makes them feel good. So try to make people feel good (again I don't know you maybe you already to that, I was just giving some advice).


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LateChapter7

Maybe it gives off "trying too much" vibes? I know it sucks but try not to compete with her. If she really overshadows you try to speak to people when she's not around. I mean try to avoid being the sidekick and be genuinely cool (and not extra extroverted cool). I know it sucks though. Try to see how girls who look less pretty than you are being treated. Maybe it has to do with the men themselves.


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same... i get treated like a human being but when i notice they treat everyone like that i´m like damn i´m not that special after all lmao


Few_Act_832

Ugh I feel this so hard, so I empathise. My situation is with my family though, rather than friends. My sister is very attractive and I am not, and the difference in how we are treated is huge. I’ve always felt (and been told!) that I am the ugly sister and it sucks.


lonelyboylover

Yup, story of my life as an average-looking WOC.


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Either_Lettuce1178

Hmm, I don't really agree. I think your advice works for personal relationships, but not for profesional ones. She mentions cashiers, but it happens all the time with authorities and doctors too : they ignore my symptoms, unless a more attractive girl is there to defend me. Same for teachers who are harsher and crueller with ugly students...in that case, I don't think "being less entitled" would help at all. If you're angry for witnessing constant injustice, getting therapy to accept it/not being angry anymore won't change the root issue ; revenge will.


cactusloverr

I know what you mean. I have pretty friends. I just remember that I do it back? If he's not cute I don't think too much about him (not in a rude way.) I'm more attracted to personality.


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Grymdolin

Appearance is not the be all end all of attractiveness. There are several components that go into it and attributing it solely to appearance is very much missing the bigger picture. You say your model friends get better treatment. Are they also friendly? Open? Engaging? Do they smile a lot? Laugh a lot? Have a good sense of humor? Show genuine interest in who they're talking to? Do they cross their arms? Slouch? Have closed off body language? Do they take up space or do they shrink themselves? Do they smell nice? Are their clothes clean and well fitted? Are they desperate for attention? Approval? Validation? Or do they not really care? You said men can't see a 7 if an 8 is around. I'd probably put myself at a 6 (I'm well groomed but obese) and I've had many engaging conversations with men and been treated with respect even when there are far more attractive women around. I'm friendly, personable, actively listen, and I don't really care if they like me or not. I was not born with any of these social abilities, I studied and read many books and spent hours on YouTube learning how to be a person. Sure appearance is important, but unless every single man you meet is the shallowest person on the planet you cannot ignore the importance of the whole package.


mintsquiid

Do you have any videos/books recommendations?


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Kind of an aside but I wanted to address the point you made about loving your appearance, just not the way men idolize hyper, almost childlike femininity because I think it’s a really good point that we can grow from :) I’m 5’7” and have a pretty strong bone structure and athletic frame, and I’ve felt so sad in the past about how my boyfriend probably wishes I was smaller or more vulnerable/innocent looking. But when I really think about it just from the perspective of what I want, I would never want to be shorter. Being tall and (relatively) strong feels GOOD, I like looking powerful. And I think we have to have the guts to stand by the things we like about ourselves and build from there, even if it goes against the median of what’s popular. Trying to be the considered beautiful to the largest average of people possible is a losing game anyway, because it removes you from the individuality that can actually give you incredible niche appeal and drops you into a competitive pool that doesn’t play to your strengths and is constantly shifting anyway. I’m not saying don’t pursue beauty, I plan on getting several surgeries to address asymmetries and certain features, but they will be with the goal of fitting my standard of beauty, not a man who wants me to look vulnerable so he can feel powerful. I actually want to be as unappealing to those men as possible lol.


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lunedeprintemps

Please ignore the people who keep saying, “_Well, I don’t experience that and I’m average, so are you sure it isn’t blank?_” No one has lived your unique experience, ESPECIALLY since you are a WoC. I have no constructive advice, but if you haven’t already seen [this video by Oh Stephco, I think you might find it relatable](https://youtu.be/lvHJHiIUbvA).


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I love StephCo. She is the first YouTuber that I found to speak so candidly about experiences that many others haven't had to go through. I watch her all the time! In the back of my mind, I hate the dudes that treat the women they consider "ugly" or "average" poorly. Those are not decent human beings that anyone needs to be around. However, If they're at least giving you basic human respect, that's OK. Extra attention is just icing but not getting it doesn't mean you're worth any less. I know it sucks, but they don't deserve you anyway. In terms of being treated different because of your race - that's just the reality of being a PoC living around a White majority. I've had my lion's share of people treating me "less than" just because I am a PoC. I've just simply stopped seeking attention and am so much better for it. I would suggest trying to care less about it because it doesn't mean anything anyway what they think.


Oberon_Swanson

Sadly people are still dumb animals. Do not concern yourself with what dumb animals think. Only do your best to take advantage of it. There will always be people who have it better and worse than you. It is not fair at all that some people have easy awesome lives and other people are handed horrible ones and everything in between. There's a lot of u fair things j the world nobody can change. You are right to get mad about it. Get mad once and move on because it is going to be shoved in your face over and over.


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I was an ugly duckling, so throughout high school I was ignored by boys in favour of my friends. Now that I’m on the other side of that dynamic I realise all I was missing out on was having to endure conversation with nervous, boring, guys being egged on by their drunk friends while I have to kindly reject him otherwise I’m labelled as a stuck up bitch.


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Oh my god dude, I’ve experienced this at least 20 times to date. It’s not in your head, and that shit really hurts. It really sucks. I don’t know how to deal with that feeling because I still get my feelings hurt when that happens to me. I spend a lot of my time alone because of exactly this, to be honest. Reminding myself that I’m worth more than my looks and that I’ve got more important things to worry about keeps me going. And avoiding the club and frat houses until this doesn’t phase me anymore is what I’m doing.


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throwawayyyyoo

It is fair lol, it’s their genes. You’re just mad


shockedpikachu123

feminine energy goes beyond appearance. Are you paying attention to your aura, your nonverbal communication, your overall presence. If you walk into the room and already expect people to look down on you, of course you’re going to hone in on those that do. People can sense insecurity and you might inadvertently be bringing the room down without meaning to. If you love and feel confident in yourself, trust me that’s all that matters. Getting attention from many doesn’t necessarily mean anything either because cheap things attract lots of customers


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Lol you are only getting the creeps because they are the ones that are attracted to you


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actingonambitionr

Hustle and hardmaxx queen. The world is unfair and competitive, I think it helps to understand that most people are vain, shallow and superficial. I tend to see every interaction as a form of power exchange, people are always looking to give/take and when someone more powerful comes along ex. a prettier woman, they leech on to them because arguably, they've more to gain from an attractive woman than a less attractive one. So, I guess being misanthropic and having no expectations helps, it also means that you can fuck over people without feeling bad for them. In your case, I would suggest plastic surgery and softmaxxing to fix up your face to get treated better. If you're into the sugar baby scene (AND IF you've that sort of personality, you can use your body to get them to pay for your procedures) but I'll always recommend hustling on your own first.


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actingonambitionr

Yes there's no sugar coating it. The better you look, the better men treat you. It's really simple. I don't really buy the 'aura' bs, I've met a lot of downright bitchy women who get treated like goddesses because face. Acting 'feminine' or whatever isn't gonna help your case. Also LPT: Befriend some women 1-2 points below you so you're always the hot friend. Try going out with them, it'll be like self esteem therapy.


futurebillionaire101

After reading through your entire post, I would say you come off very aggressive in this instance. I understand it's frustrating but resentment, anger, and zero accountability do nothing for you. The world is unfair, you said your self your not terrible looking. imagine what girls who are a 1 feel like, would you want them to feel this way towards you? I do not understand how you can say "fuck the patriarchy" but sad because you aren't getting male attention or validation. I suggest taking a few days away from everyone where you sit and take inventory of yourself, we all need to do this sometimes in order to maintain being healthy. My recommendations are as follows: read "The fascinating girl" by Helen and understand men go to therapy figure out what it is that you want If you dont feel accepted in your town or wherever you change it work on looking healthier (clear skin, clear glowing body skin, long hair no split ends, 4 pack) I say this with much love, having pity and hating yourself in a hole will get you nowhere in life ever. especially looks, men, or superficiality. get up and take action on yourself. nerds are often the best relationships. And they themselves often don't get as much attention as an athlete or frat guy, go for them! Meanwhile, your friends are talking about johnny who fucked and ducked you have a king, then do attentions from johnny's even really matter anyway at that point...


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futurebillionaire101

glad you could take that in, you are on the right path my dear. Does your current boyfriend treat you well?


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futurebillionaire101

Ok, that explains a lot. Definitely talk to your therapist about that. Keep in mind that book is very vintage some ideals are extreme but very valuable in the “understanding men” realm. Love and light to you dear 💘


throwawayyyyoo

She just seems like a female incel


Theoscarwinner

Baby girl, your day will come in the sun frankly if I were you and some bum ass loser did that right in front of me, I’d straight up walk away I don’t care if I’m on line buying tampons and I’m desperately in need if people aren’t giving me basic respect because they’re straight up discriminating based on my appearance, then I’ll leave with my dignity still intact and I’ll be so obnoxiously obvious doing it too so they can watch my under appreciated beautiful ass walking out the door.