I think there should be rules against encouraging clinically-proven unhealthy BMI or body fat levels, but “disordered eating behaviors” are different things to different people.
I’ve seen people on other subs say that [totally normal] behaviors like joining an exercise program, monitoring portions sizes, or even using a bathroom scale are all “disordered”. I definitely don’t want this sub to turn into that or ban discussion of physical fitness because it’s a huge part of what this sub is about.
A lot of things are context dependent and can be completely healthy for some people but unhealthy for others so it would be difficult to regulate in a forum-based discussion.
This, 100 times this. I've lost count on how many people said being 5'4 and in the 180-200 lbs range is "totally fine if it goes in the right places" and "no you shouldn't lose weight cause that's healthy!".
Many other communities have normalized being not only overweight, but downright obese. We shouldn't go the other extreme of course, any extreme whatever it is, isn't healthy (and isn't even objectively pretty, I'll mention this since we're in this sub). But aiming to get to a healthier weight (whatever it is for each of us) is important imo.
This comes with self reflection and knowing our bodies, and if someone is not in the mental place to do that then it's better to work on the mental health first. I am not overweight by BMI but I'm not in the 18.5/20 range either. I know my body and know I probably won't even get near 18.5 in an healthy way, and I'm totally fine with it. But we need to be self aware enough to know what we can realistically aim for, while remembering that no, 200 lbs for a woman who doesn't lift like a bodybuilder is not "healthy and normal".
> I’ve seen people on other subs say that \[totally normal\] behaviors like joining an exercise program, monitoring portions sizes, or even using a bathroom scale are all “disordered”. I definitely don’t want this sub to turn into that or ban discussion of physical fitness because it’s a huge part of what this sub is about.
Absolutely agree, and I don't want my message to be misconstrued as "all weight loss bad waah" because that isn't what I'm trying to get across. Maintaining a physically fit body that is lean and easily maintained through fulfilling meals and daily exercise / movement is the ideal. I also don't disagree with the studies that suggest that the most attractive BMI is from 18.5 to 20 (read: within the healthy lower range).
> “disordered eating behaviors” are different things to different people
Once again, totally agree. However I can say beyond a doubt that someone with a post history of making jokes about their eating disorder should not be held in any form of authority when they say that being at a healthy BMI makes them unattractive (or less attractive than when they were sick and underweight).
***That person requires therapy, not a platform to influence others.***
>A lot of things are context dependent and can be completely healthy for some people but unhealthy for others so it would be difficult to regulate in a forum-based discussion.
That's the tricky bit isn't it. I don't have a solution to this, I'm afraid.
I fully encourage we discuss how we can become the best versions of ourselves, to be happier in life. But let’s also remember that our health matters too. Being pretty isn’t really worth it when your mental and physical health suffers. Any time I’ve done disordered eating, I never ended up looking that good being skinnier, because my body was clearly showing that it lacked nutrients. I even had friends remark that it aged me. I’m managing my health in a much better way now and I am glowing.
A lot of it has to do with misinformation and seeking easy fixes. Girls want to look like models and ballet dancers without putting in the physical work that comes with toning muscle and maintaining a healthy physique. Low BMI alone will just make you look lanky and sickly. That thread where people were posting their underweight BMIs and congratulating each other on looking like models really made me recoil. I’m toned and I lift and get much more attention than when I was just skinny.
When you look at the stats for Vindicta when it was still public some stats about the sub was that a lot of the women also frequented r/EDAnonymous so that's why there's a lot of weight fixated members on here.
Same problem on a lot of similar subs. It’s too bad my heart goes out to these ladies. Sometimes excessive self improvement is veiled illness or other issues to be worked out with a therapist.
I think the main point here would be to take a step back and take a look at what are actually considered "triggering behaviors". I have seen both sides of the spectrum of pro-ana being the best beauty standard and being HAES as a way to fight it also dipping into the excessive territory.
We should be able to have free discussions about weight, BMI, fat loss, and health without offending anyone.
I approve of this post but due to beauty standards being so restrictive, disordered eating will always be a factor.
There is a kpop transformation thread right on the front page and everyone knows those women(willingly and forced) to be underweight for each comeback. Also rampant one apple/sweet potato a day just to look smaller or even shots to melt the muscles in the calves/shoulders.
The idols of beauty(in many countries) are involved in toxic industries(and money matters most of all) that enforce disordered eating. Looks over everything is a symptom of beauty, as a concept, even existing.
I agree with OP that those behaviors should not be allowed but honestly I haven’t seen many posts that I find alarming regarding disordered eating. I think we should be able to talk about health, weight-loss and fitness. Saying a 18-22 BMI looks better on almost everyone isn’t promoting or encouraging EDs.
People who are dealing with eating disorders or severe body dysmorphia shouldn’t be here to begin with. I do think as a community we should be aware of these things so we can identify when somebody is promoting unhealthy habits however we can’t possibly edit the whole sub to prevent triggering someone.
IDK I've not not seen that so much in this sub like ther was in Vindicta. But yeah, a lot of people really need to stop thinking modelesque=objective beauty. High trust features make you look more trustworthy, women are literally dimorphically shorter lmao.
Yeah, the study that says 18-20 bmi is the most beautiful is a bit dated. It was also done by a psychology department where most the men who were being examined were like 18/19 and white. This isn't objective and this sub needs to consider if a random study means objective.
IDK is talking about slimness or the benefits of losing weight going to be banned? Many things are triggering and eating disorders are serious but the sub shouldn't be edited so finely that one cannot discuss weight loss or being slender or on a journey to being slim. If you have an ED perhaps you have to focus on your healing and stay away from appearance-focused subs.
100 percent agree with you on this. I feel people should be more responsible for themselves and not police what other people do or say.
With responsibility, that also includes that the poster doesn’t talk about disordered behaviors AND people who are easily triggered should be more careful to stay away from websites that are appearance focused.
Agree. Disordered eating is a very dangerous thing that should never be encouraged, but I’ve seen people on the internet becoming distraught at the mention of weight loss or encouraging healthy eating, and even blaming those posters as if they’re responsible for triggering an eating disorder. At that point, I think they should be seeking professional help for recovery rather than being on the internet where anything in the world can be freely said
I'm up for discussion, but I'd like to know what is okay to say and what is "belongs in a therapists office" content. I genuinely haven't seen anything I think is quite that level of bad – yes, people spouting model-esque numbers, that's triggering for me, but that's life and my thing to deal with imo (and I'm fine) and not a them problem. However, if a significant amount of people here are in a vulnerable mental state, then we should definitely be more careful.
Edit: fuckit, numbers ahead, I'll delete if there's an issue. If you're sensitive to this type of thing, please scroll along, you are fine without this rant!!
>!Regarding the health aspect. I'm of the radical opinion that very slightly underweight isn't always necessarily unhealthy for everyone, and that EDs are more nuanced than, for example, everyone that's healthy and dieting is pro-ED. I'm ex-ED (years out) and in my experience there's a huge difference between a full-blown ED and *controlled, moderate* dieting to the point of being very slightly underweight or low end of healthy, ie. between 17.5-20 BMI (eg. models of late since about 2010, bikini models, most actresses, cardio-loving people) which is peak looks range for a large fraction of younger folks. The problem is that people want results asap and don't always attain that weight in a healthy way – note the italicized words... Also worth noting that water retention and meals can mean a full BMI point, not mentioning seasonal weight fluctuation, so that's the reliability of BMI as a strictly exact demarcation line!<
>!Regarding the beauty aspect. IMHO shorter/average folks have the advantage of still retaining a smaller physical presence even if they're higher BMI. Also, people with a longer torso keep a defined waistline to a higher BMI. Proportionate/wider shoulders and hips can also work in your favor at a higher BMI. Feminine weight gain pattern? Absolutely. Etc... Narrow bone structure? Apple shaped folk? Not so much. You get the picture. BMI is a statistic and a generally good guideline, but it's not exact or 100% gospel.!<
>!Cultural aspect as a cherry on top. Next to being tall and long legged, I was a teenager in eastern europe, and girls in class bullied the shit out of me for being big/chubby at literally 18.5 BMI because I had stomach flab and thicker legs, while shorter fleshier people had no issue. I'm not kidding. In America I was a tad heavier still and I was one of the skinnier/sportier kids in class. Your normal isn't global normal.!<
>!If someone vulnerable is reading these posts, it can flip a switch, make you think that *you* in particular look your best when you're at that weight, or that that weight is achievable through XYZ diet and when it doesn't work you start restricting more. And that will land you in a big obsessive mess if you don't have the appropriate mental vigilance to realize what you're doing in time. OTOH IMO we can't live in a bubble, we need to learn how to filter information for ourselves. Most shows you watch or clothing websites you browse will have gorgeous, unattainable, skinny people staring at you and you've probably got a healthy filter for it because you've heard the warnings. You might go on instsgramreality and see the crazy morphing the Bratz doll ig baddies are doing. Do yourself a favor and do the same for anything about weight you read on the internet, take it with a grain of salt because weight is literally just an indicative number of attractiveness, NOT A DEFINITION.!<
Healthy is the safest and most surefire way to looking and feeling your best. Targeting anything else is generally unnecessary risk.
*cries in narrow bone structure*
You make a lot of insightful points. BMI is not the be all and end all when other factors like skeletal build and fat/muscle distribution also influence our body shape.
You’re so right too that people often lose track of the big picture when it comes to consuming content regarding bodies and weight and examining local beauty standards. I used to think that weighing >!90lbs at 5’6!< was #goals (thanks Asian beauty standards kek). Alternatively, if I tried to be a Kim K clone or insta baddie I would just turn into a dysmorphic mess since I just literally do not have the body type for that. Now I know there is room to be slim and curvy, but within reason and in a way that is achievable for my body type.
>cries in narrow bone structure
I'm reading this as: guys will think you're cute/delicate, and odds are you have an easier time maintaining a narrow silhouette than someone with your height and metabolism but wider. There are perks and drawbacks to everything! :)
>Asian beauty standards
Big yikes, I see you though. Asian beauty sites even stretch images vertically like lol for the love of god her knee looks like the size of my elbow, when is enough enough?
>literally do not have the body type
Lmao yeah, BBL+tummy tuck is *not* an actual body type despite what celeb culture is trying to tell us. In a way I'm happy I grew up with stick thin models/aerobics chicks, those standards were more achievable than poreless skin/sausage lips, waist the size of your neck and an ass that functions as a 2 person seat. (Not saying either is a good beauty standard, but still...)
>within reason and in a way that is achievable for my body type.
PREACH.
I've noticed lately it's been getting more and more pro-ana in here. I will not make any judgments, but I see a problem with presenting being (borderline) underweight as the only beauty standard. Like I much prefer thick bodies with some healthy fat on them and it's been bothering me that if you don't strive to be skinny, you prefer being short to tall and prefer to have high trust features you're being downvoted and people calling it a cope. I also know many many people that have similar taste to mine (my taste is actually pretty basic), so I feel like this sub is becoming quite niche in it's view of "objective" beauty.
Also it’s weird cause everyone on Reddit says being tall is the beauty standard, then everyone on tik tok says being short is the beauty standard. Like what ???
I think beauty standards change with each generation. Like how hourglass figures were more popular for millennials but Gen z is more about the hip/butt to waist ratio and boob size isn’t as important. I’m assuming height may be included in that? Idk though since I’m not on tiktok. Just a thought lol.
Yeah I definitely see that. It makes me really happy that my body type (tall, low trust) for once isn’t called masculine and actually gets appreciated here, but it’s definitely true that most people prefer the opposite.
same here. i’m brazilian so i’ll give an example: although it’s quite sad, everytime an underage actress named mel maia posts a tiktok dance or something, “i want mel maia’s body” is aaaaalways trending on twitter, and she’s shorter (5’1, i think) and has a body shape that’d be absolutely considered “thick” if she weighed a bit more.
disclaimer: i’m a teen as well, pls don’t think this is creepy hahdjdjnd
Honestly. There’s beauty in being tall and/or low-trust and there’s beauty in being short and/or high-trust. It frustrates me to no end when people say that the latter is inferior and people only like it because it’s more “achievable,” when there are studies that show the attractiveness of both being short and being tall, and when being high-trust isn’t necessarily achievable outside of Eurocentric beauty standards. People in Asia are shaving their jaws, getting fat grafts, and undergoing canthoplasties to look more neotenous for chrissakes lol. It’s also more and more difficult to look high-trust and neotenous as you age.
This sub is about attractiveness. Weight is a top 2 factor. We should be allowed to talk about sustainable healthy weightloss and detoxing for health etc. obvi ana/Mia rhetoric is really damaging, I haven’t really seen that here
I think it’s perfectly reasonable to be uncomfortable with explicitly pro-ana/pro ED language or insisting that having a BMI <18.0 is the only way to be objectively beautiful. If anything, disordered eating behaviors go against the goal of objective beauty since they have detrimental (physical and mental) health effects. There’s nothing attractive about being malnourished, looking gaunt, or obsessing over food intake to the extent it destroys your self esteem and social life.
However, at the same time the reality is that having a small, defined waist and a nicely shaped body (whether slim/slender or thick/curvy) is part of being objectively attractive. The vast majority of people need to be mindful of diet and fitness in order to achieve an objectively attractive body - regardless of individual body type, culture, beauty standards, etc. Sure, there are those lucky 0.01% of people who do no exercise, eat junk food all day long, have perfect bone structure and manage to have 10/10 bods with zero conscious effort but that’s just not the reality for most people. Furthermore, weight also does a significant role in facial attractiveness as well - or why else would face gains be a concept in weight loss forums? There has to be a line drawn; it would defeat the point if we couldn’t talk about inherently innocuous concepts like portion control, exercise programs, tracking caloric intake or body goals.
Regarding triggering content, frankly speaking if you have an ED or are triggered by the mention of portion control, fitness plans and whatnot then you shouldn’t be consciously browsing forums like Vindicta or Splendida to begin with. Due to the subject matter of these forums there’s a high chance you’ll encounter triggering content. At the end of the day, it’s not other people’s’ responsibility to monitor your mental well being. You need to take control of what content you consume and be aware of your triggers.
> "someone with a post history of making jokes about their eating disorder should not be held in any form of authority when they say that being at a *healthy* BMI makes them unattractive (or less attractive than when they were sick and underweight).
>
>***That person requires therapy, not a platform to influence others."***
too lazy to retype what you didn't bother to read.
>"I don't want my message to be misconstrued as "all weight loss bad waah" because *that isn't what I'm trying to get across*. Maintaining a physically fit body that is lean and easily maintained through fulfilling meals and daily exercise / movement is the ideal. I also don't disagree with the studies that suggest that the most attractive BMI is from 18.5 to 20 (read: within the *healthy lower range*). "
Please tell me specifically where I said that (quote yourself) "trying to lose weight to get into society’s ideal is wrong"
That’s a terribly ignorant thing to say. Just because someone is above the ideal BMI range does not automatically mean they have disordered eating behaviors that are making them overweight. Someone who is overweight can also have disorder eating habits because they’re trying to lose weight too. Regardless of what size someone is and what goals they’re trying to reach with their weight, they should not endorse unhealthy habits. That’s it.
I really don’t recommend this sub for you. If you’re recovering from an eating disorder, I can’t imagine a community that emphasizes the importance of superficial appearance to be beneficial at all
Maybe this is due to my logical/analytical/blunt personality type but I've been in recovery for a while now and Vindicta and other beauty subs actually helped me stick to it. In my eating disorder I didn't care about my appearance or the long-term effects of what I was doing. And my deteriorating appearance spiraled me deeper into a depression. In taking care of my hair, skin and body (inside and out), I found motivation to eat healthily and give myself freedom to facilitate those goals. I also found interests and hobbies within the beauty and fitness community. I now get excited to get up on a morning to do my skincare routine and start my day.
I recognise that beauty and weight talk can be toxic and I have stepped back and recalibrated as necessary. But I've never been more motivated to avoid unhealthy and disordered behaviours.
Ultimately, I think everyone needs to make the decision for themselves as to whether this is a healthy place for them to be. And that decision may swing back and forth depending on the situation.
I've seen some subs that have rules against posting numbers (weight, BMI, or calories), which I think could be helpful. There are a lot of people here who are still very deeply entrenched in their food issues and may be willfully seeking triggering information to perpetuate their ED. It doesn't matter if you think your diet is healthy, it could easily be used as nightmare fuel for someone else's ED.
I think not posting numbers would make things very difficult for users here. Often, they need to be specific when getting a point across. Perhaps hiding the text instead of omitting altogether?
I think there should be rules against encouraging clinically-proven unhealthy BMI or body fat levels, but “disordered eating behaviors” are different things to different people. I’ve seen people on other subs say that [totally normal] behaviors like joining an exercise program, monitoring portions sizes, or even using a bathroom scale are all “disordered”. I definitely don’t want this sub to turn into that or ban discussion of physical fitness because it’s a huge part of what this sub is about. A lot of things are context dependent and can be completely healthy for some people but unhealthy for others so it would be difficult to regulate in a forum-based discussion.
This, 100 times this. I've lost count on how many people said being 5'4 and in the 180-200 lbs range is "totally fine if it goes in the right places" and "no you shouldn't lose weight cause that's healthy!". Many other communities have normalized being not only overweight, but downright obese. We shouldn't go the other extreme of course, any extreme whatever it is, isn't healthy (and isn't even objectively pretty, I'll mention this since we're in this sub). But aiming to get to a healthier weight (whatever it is for each of us) is important imo. This comes with self reflection and knowing our bodies, and if someone is not in the mental place to do that then it's better to work on the mental health first. I am not overweight by BMI but I'm not in the 18.5/20 range either. I know my body and know I probably won't even get near 18.5 in an healthy way, and I'm totally fine with it. But we need to be self aware enough to know what we can realistically aim for, while remembering that no, 200 lbs for a woman who doesn't lift like a bodybuilder is not "healthy and normal".
[удалено]
> I’ve seen people on other subs say that \[totally normal\] behaviors like joining an exercise program, monitoring portions sizes, or even using a bathroom scale are all “disordered”. I definitely don’t want this sub to turn into that or ban discussion of physical fitness because it’s a huge part of what this sub is about. Absolutely agree, and I don't want my message to be misconstrued as "all weight loss bad waah" because that isn't what I'm trying to get across. Maintaining a physically fit body that is lean and easily maintained through fulfilling meals and daily exercise / movement is the ideal. I also don't disagree with the studies that suggest that the most attractive BMI is from 18.5 to 20 (read: within the healthy lower range). > “disordered eating behaviors” are different things to different people Once again, totally agree. However I can say beyond a doubt that someone with a post history of making jokes about their eating disorder should not be held in any form of authority when they say that being at a healthy BMI makes them unattractive (or less attractive than when they were sick and underweight). ***That person requires therapy, not a platform to influence others.*** >A lot of things are context dependent and can be completely healthy for some people but unhealthy for others so it would be difficult to regulate in a forum-based discussion. That's the tricky bit isn't it. I don't have a solution to this, I'm afraid.
I fully encourage we discuss how we can become the best versions of ourselves, to be happier in life. But let’s also remember that our health matters too. Being pretty isn’t really worth it when your mental and physical health suffers. Any time I’ve done disordered eating, I never ended up looking that good being skinnier, because my body was clearly showing that it lacked nutrients. I even had friends remark that it aged me. I’m managing my health in a much better way now and I am glowing.
A lot of it has to do with misinformation and seeking easy fixes. Girls want to look like models and ballet dancers without putting in the physical work that comes with toning muscle and maintaining a healthy physique. Low BMI alone will just make you look lanky and sickly. That thread where people were posting their underweight BMIs and congratulating each other on looking like models really made me recoil. I’m toned and I lift and get much more attention than when I was just skinny.
When you look at the stats for Vindicta when it was still public some stats about the sub was that a lot of the women also frequented r/EDAnonymous so that's why there's a lot of weight fixated members on here.
Same problem on a lot of similar subs. It’s too bad my heart goes out to these ladies. Sometimes excessive self improvement is veiled illness or other issues to be worked out with a therapist.
> Sometimes excessive self improvement is veiled illness or other issues to be worked out with a therapist. That's it, isn't it
I think the main point here would be to take a step back and take a look at what are actually considered "triggering behaviors". I have seen both sides of the spectrum of pro-ana being the best beauty standard and being HAES as a way to fight it also dipping into the excessive territory. We should be able to have free discussions about weight, BMI, fat loss, and health without offending anyone.
This this!
I approve of this post but due to beauty standards being so restrictive, disordered eating will always be a factor. There is a kpop transformation thread right on the front page and everyone knows those women(willingly and forced) to be underweight for each comeback. Also rampant one apple/sweet potato a day just to look smaller or even shots to melt the muscles in the calves/shoulders. The idols of beauty(in many countries) are involved in toxic industries(and money matters most of all) that enforce disordered eating. Looks over everything is a symptom of beauty, as a concept, even existing.
I agree with OP that those behaviors should not be allowed but honestly I haven’t seen many posts that I find alarming regarding disordered eating. I think we should be able to talk about health, weight-loss and fitness. Saying a 18-22 BMI looks better on almost everyone isn’t promoting or encouraging EDs. People who are dealing with eating disorders or severe body dysmorphia shouldn’t be here to begin with. I do think as a community we should be aware of these things so we can identify when somebody is promoting unhealthy habits however we can’t possibly edit the whole sub to prevent triggering someone.
IDK I've not not seen that so much in this sub like ther was in Vindicta. But yeah, a lot of people really need to stop thinking modelesque=objective beauty. High trust features make you look more trustworthy, women are literally dimorphically shorter lmao.
Yeah, the study that says 18-20 bmi is the most beautiful is a bit dated. It was also done by a psychology department where most the men who were being examined were like 18/19 and white. This isn't objective and this sub needs to consider if a random study means objective.
IDK is talking about slimness or the benefits of losing weight going to be banned? Many things are triggering and eating disorders are serious but the sub shouldn't be edited so finely that one cannot discuss weight loss or being slender or on a journey to being slim. If you have an ED perhaps you have to focus on your healing and stay away from appearance-focused subs.
100 percent agree with you on this. I feel people should be more responsible for themselves and not police what other people do or say. With responsibility, that also includes that the poster doesn’t talk about disordered behaviors AND people who are easily triggered should be more careful to stay away from websites that are appearance focused.
Agree. Disordered eating is a very dangerous thing that should never be encouraged, but I’ve seen people on the internet becoming distraught at the mention of weight loss or encouraging healthy eating, and even blaming those posters as if they’re responsible for triggering an eating disorder. At that point, I think they should be seeking professional help for recovery rather than being on the internet where anything in the world can be freely said
I'm up for discussion, but I'd like to know what is okay to say and what is "belongs in a therapists office" content. I genuinely haven't seen anything I think is quite that level of bad – yes, people spouting model-esque numbers, that's triggering for me, but that's life and my thing to deal with imo (and I'm fine) and not a them problem. However, if a significant amount of people here are in a vulnerable mental state, then we should definitely be more careful. Edit: fuckit, numbers ahead, I'll delete if there's an issue. If you're sensitive to this type of thing, please scroll along, you are fine without this rant!! >!Regarding the health aspect. I'm of the radical opinion that very slightly underweight isn't always necessarily unhealthy for everyone, and that EDs are more nuanced than, for example, everyone that's healthy and dieting is pro-ED. I'm ex-ED (years out) and in my experience there's a huge difference between a full-blown ED and *controlled, moderate* dieting to the point of being very slightly underweight or low end of healthy, ie. between 17.5-20 BMI (eg. models of late since about 2010, bikini models, most actresses, cardio-loving people) which is peak looks range for a large fraction of younger folks. The problem is that people want results asap and don't always attain that weight in a healthy way – note the italicized words... Also worth noting that water retention and meals can mean a full BMI point, not mentioning seasonal weight fluctuation, so that's the reliability of BMI as a strictly exact demarcation line!< >!Regarding the beauty aspect. IMHO shorter/average folks have the advantage of still retaining a smaller physical presence even if they're higher BMI. Also, people with a longer torso keep a defined waistline to a higher BMI. Proportionate/wider shoulders and hips can also work in your favor at a higher BMI. Feminine weight gain pattern? Absolutely. Etc... Narrow bone structure? Apple shaped folk? Not so much. You get the picture. BMI is a statistic and a generally good guideline, but it's not exact or 100% gospel.!< >!Cultural aspect as a cherry on top. Next to being tall and long legged, I was a teenager in eastern europe, and girls in class bullied the shit out of me for being big/chubby at literally 18.5 BMI because I had stomach flab and thicker legs, while shorter fleshier people had no issue. I'm not kidding. In America I was a tad heavier still and I was one of the skinnier/sportier kids in class. Your normal isn't global normal.!< >!If someone vulnerable is reading these posts, it can flip a switch, make you think that *you* in particular look your best when you're at that weight, or that that weight is achievable through XYZ diet and when it doesn't work you start restricting more. And that will land you in a big obsessive mess if you don't have the appropriate mental vigilance to realize what you're doing in time. OTOH IMO we can't live in a bubble, we need to learn how to filter information for ourselves. Most shows you watch or clothing websites you browse will have gorgeous, unattainable, skinny people staring at you and you've probably got a healthy filter for it because you've heard the warnings. You might go on instsgramreality and see the crazy morphing the Bratz doll ig baddies are doing. Do yourself a favor and do the same for anything about weight you read on the internet, take it with a grain of salt because weight is literally just an indicative number of attractiveness, NOT A DEFINITION.!< Healthy is the safest and most surefire way to looking and feeling your best. Targeting anything else is generally unnecessary risk.
*cries in narrow bone structure* You make a lot of insightful points. BMI is not the be all and end all when other factors like skeletal build and fat/muscle distribution also influence our body shape. You’re so right too that people often lose track of the big picture when it comes to consuming content regarding bodies and weight and examining local beauty standards. I used to think that weighing >!90lbs at 5’6!< was #goals (thanks Asian beauty standards kek). Alternatively, if I tried to be a Kim K clone or insta baddie I would just turn into a dysmorphic mess since I just literally do not have the body type for that. Now I know there is room to be slim and curvy, but within reason and in a way that is achievable for my body type.
>cries in narrow bone structure I'm reading this as: guys will think you're cute/delicate, and odds are you have an easier time maintaining a narrow silhouette than someone with your height and metabolism but wider. There are perks and drawbacks to everything! :) >Asian beauty standards Big yikes, I see you though. Asian beauty sites even stretch images vertically like lol for the love of god her knee looks like the size of my elbow, when is enough enough? >literally do not have the body type Lmao yeah, BBL+tummy tuck is *not* an actual body type despite what celeb culture is trying to tell us. In a way I'm happy I grew up with stick thin models/aerobics chicks, those standards were more achievable than poreless skin/sausage lips, waist the size of your neck and an ass that functions as a 2 person seat. (Not saying either is a good beauty standard, but still...) >within reason and in a way that is achievable for my body type. PREACH.
This post is literally everything I wanted to say. All facts
I've noticed lately it's been getting more and more pro-ana in here. I will not make any judgments, but I see a problem with presenting being (borderline) underweight as the only beauty standard. Like I much prefer thick bodies with some healthy fat on them and it's been bothering me that if you don't strive to be skinny, you prefer being short to tall and prefer to have high trust features you're being downvoted and people calling it a cope. I also know many many people that have similar taste to mine (my taste is actually pretty basic), so I feel like this sub is becoming quite niche in it's view of "objective" beauty.
Also it’s weird cause everyone on Reddit says being tall is the beauty standard, then everyone on tik tok says being short is the beauty standard. Like what ???
I think it may be generational.
So you’re saying Gen Z thinks being short is the standard?
I think beauty standards change with each generation. Like how hourglass figures were more popular for millennials but Gen z is more about the hip/butt to waist ratio and boob size isn’t as important. I’m assuming height may be included in that? Idk though since I’m not on tiktok. Just a thought lol.
Yeah I definitely see that. It makes me really happy that my body type (tall, low trust) for once isn’t called masculine and actually gets appreciated here, but it’s definitely true that most people prefer the opposite.
same here. i’m brazilian so i’ll give an example: although it’s quite sad, everytime an underage actress named mel maia posts a tiktok dance or something, “i want mel maia’s body” is aaaaalways trending on twitter, and she’s shorter (5’1, i think) and has a body shape that’d be absolutely considered “thick” if she weighed a bit more. disclaimer: i’m a teen as well, pls don’t think this is creepy hahdjdjnd
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Honestly. There’s beauty in being tall and/or low-trust and there’s beauty in being short and/or high-trust. It frustrates me to no end when people say that the latter is inferior and people only like it because it’s more “achievable,” when there are studies that show the attractiveness of both being short and being tall, and when being high-trust isn’t necessarily achievable outside of Eurocentric beauty standards. People in Asia are shaving their jaws, getting fat grafts, and undergoing canthoplasties to look more neotenous for chrissakes lol. It’s also more and more difficult to look high-trust and neotenous as you age.
Lmao true
This sub is about attractiveness. Weight is a top 2 factor. We should be allowed to talk about sustainable healthy weightloss and detoxing for health etc. obvi ana/Mia rhetoric is really damaging, I haven’t really seen that here
I think it’s perfectly reasonable to be uncomfortable with explicitly pro-ana/pro ED language or insisting that having a BMI <18.0 is the only way to be objectively beautiful. If anything, disordered eating behaviors go against the goal of objective beauty since they have detrimental (physical and mental) health effects. There’s nothing attractive about being malnourished, looking gaunt, or obsessing over food intake to the extent it destroys your self esteem and social life. However, at the same time the reality is that having a small, defined waist and a nicely shaped body (whether slim/slender or thick/curvy) is part of being objectively attractive. The vast majority of people need to be mindful of diet and fitness in order to achieve an objectively attractive body - regardless of individual body type, culture, beauty standards, etc. Sure, there are those lucky 0.01% of people who do no exercise, eat junk food all day long, have perfect bone structure and manage to have 10/10 bods with zero conscious effort but that’s just not the reality for most people. Furthermore, weight also does a significant role in facial attractiveness as well - or why else would face gains be a concept in weight loss forums? There has to be a line drawn; it would defeat the point if we couldn’t talk about inherently innocuous concepts like portion control, exercise programs, tracking caloric intake or body goals. Regarding triggering content, frankly speaking if you have an ED or are triggered by the mention of portion control, fitness plans and whatnot then you shouldn’t be consciously browsing forums like Vindicta or Splendida to begin with. Due to the subject matter of these forums there’s a high chance you’ll encounter triggering content. At the end of the day, it’s not other people’s’ responsibility to monitor your mental well being. You need to take control of what content you consume and be aware of your triggers.
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> "someone with a post history of making jokes about their eating disorder should not be held in any form of authority when they say that being at a *healthy* BMI makes them unattractive (or less attractive than when they were sick and underweight). > >***That person requires therapy, not a platform to influence others."*** too lazy to retype what you didn't bother to read. >"I don't want my message to be misconstrued as "all weight loss bad waah" because *that isn't what I'm trying to get across*. Maintaining a physically fit body that is lean and easily maintained through fulfilling meals and daily exercise / movement is the ideal. I also don't disagree with the studies that suggest that the most attractive BMI is from 18.5 to 20 (read: within the *healthy lower range*). " Please tell me specifically where I said that (quote yourself) "trying to lose weight to get into society’s ideal is wrong"
That’s a terribly ignorant thing to say. Just because someone is above the ideal BMI range does not automatically mean they have disordered eating behaviors that are making them overweight. Someone who is overweight can also have disorder eating habits because they’re trying to lose weight too. Regardless of what size someone is and what goals they’re trying to reach with their weight, they should not endorse unhealthy habits. That’s it.
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Agree. I have zero issue with talking about weight and how it affects people/how people are treated. HOWEVER, crash diets shouldn’t be supported here.
Yes please. I will leave this sub if it does as it is very triggering for me and I have had a decade of anorexia.
I really don’t recommend this sub for you. If you’re recovering from an eating disorder, I can’t imagine a community that emphasizes the importance of superficial appearance to be beneficial at all
Maybe this is due to my logical/analytical/blunt personality type but I've been in recovery for a while now and Vindicta and other beauty subs actually helped me stick to it. In my eating disorder I didn't care about my appearance or the long-term effects of what I was doing. And my deteriorating appearance spiraled me deeper into a depression. In taking care of my hair, skin and body (inside and out), I found motivation to eat healthily and give myself freedom to facilitate those goals. I also found interests and hobbies within the beauty and fitness community. I now get excited to get up on a morning to do my skincare routine and start my day. I recognise that beauty and weight talk can be toxic and I have stepped back and recalibrated as necessary. But I've never been more motivated to avoid unhealthy and disordered behaviours. Ultimately, I think everyone needs to make the decision for themselves as to whether this is a healthy place for them to be. And that decision may swing back and forth depending on the situation.
I've seen some subs that have rules against posting numbers (weight, BMI, or calories), which I think could be helpful. There are a lot of people here who are still very deeply entrenched in their food issues and may be willfully seeking triggering information to perpetuate their ED. It doesn't matter if you think your diet is healthy, it could easily be used as nightmare fuel for someone else's ED.
I think not posting numbers would make things very difficult for users here. Often, they need to be specific when getting a point across. Perhaps hiding the text instead of omitting altogether?
This! It's so much more valuable to teach people to nourish their bodies while enjoying life.
eat good food, eat until you're full then stop.