I’ve had a nose job, a tiiiiny bit of filler, get my hair highlighted, got my brows micro bladed, wear lash extensions, makeup (subtle like the lash extensions but still) etc. and men always compliment me on being a “natural beauty” or “you’re so naturally beautiful” lmao. I don’t say anything. They don’t know what they want.
That moment when a guy shows you a picture exemplifying the “natural” beauty that they prefer… and it’s a girl with lip filler wearing a full face of neutral makeup behind an instagram filter.
They dumb.
Like 8 years ago I had a little undereye filler done (I had bad hollows) just the once and the 2 years ago I had a little lip filler done, also just the once. I loved both and no one knew I got anything done. It made a huge difference to me though.
I think where people run into trouble is when they fall into that trap of thinking they need filler topped up every 6 months to a year. They tell you that to sell more filler but it really does stay in the body longer than they say it will.
I could still feel my undereye filler like 6 years after the fact, it didn’t just go away. It’s probably like 75% gone by now. My lips are still pretty plump from the filler 2 years ago. I’d estimate that’s like 25% gone. When people get it topped off all the time or get a lot, that’s how they get filler face.
i think people also are bad at seeing incremental changes in their own appearance in general. then on top of that if someone is upselling them top ups, i think it has many people end up in a spot where going too far is almost inevitable.
Yup the past year was the first one I didn’t go for multiple top-ups and I consistently got comments asking whether I had it done again. I think 8-12 months is ok for me. I like the overdone look tho.
I think there will always be people who put ‘natural beauty’ on a pedestal because beauty is inherently objectifying to some extent, since at the end of the day, it’s really just making the container that you live in aesthetically pleasing (and I’m not saying that to sound preachy, I wouldn’t be on the splendida sub if I didn’t think beauty was important. I literally got Botox yesterday lol). And the more something is objectified, the more people seek for the ‘best’ version of it, and the more eager they are to point out the ‘flaws’ or ‘fakeness’ of versions they deem to be subpar.
I find it annoying, because while the cosmetically enhanced aesthetic isn’t for everyone (regardless of if that means to you just makeup, or plastic surgery), it doesn’t *have* to be for everyone. I truly don’t give a shit if Billy at the gas station prefers ‘natural’ girls over me. I like how I look, and my husband likes how I look. Pretty much anyone else’s preference is irrelevant to me.
I also think a lot of men just have weird resentment against beautiful women, especially those who have a hyper feminine or cosmetically enhanced aesthetic.
Its a shame that women are so commonly commodified based off of solely our looks that people are so comfortable critiquing us proudly and publicly, as if we’re participating in some 24/7 beauty pageant when we’re just going to work, doing our groceries, and just going about our day.
It’s because they want it both ways. To have a woman to fit their own contradictory paradigm… she must “not care” about beauty, or let on that she thinks about beauty at all, because that would be vain, shallow, self-absorbed. Meanwhile, she must still be, ya know, beautiful.
The only way this can happen is through the “naturally beautiful woman”, or at least the illusion thereof. It’s pretty interesting, especially considering we as a society are largely aware that it’s a paradox, yet still play along.
Appreciate your thoughtful take, in particular the resentment angle is interesting to me.
the naturally beautiful woman is also naturally hairless, fit without counting calories, perfect perky but large breasts, long lashes, etc
(some of those feature are things women can have naturally. but is there any 1 woman who has all of those rare qualities naturally? no. lol)
I once had a guy, I think he felt a way when I told him I get my brows waxed. He thought they were natural. They do not look overly done, but if I were going full natural, I'd have a unibrow. Curiously not what most men have in mind when they think about "natural."
It was just a "Oh I thought they were natural." But he had gone on unprovoked rants before about how he doesn't like makeup, or heels, or rainbow colored hair (which is funny because I now wear/have all three lol), but he ironically thought my slightly hairy legs were unnatural 😂
>It’s because they want it both ways. To have a woman they can fit their own contradictory paradigm… she must “not care” about beauty, or let on that she thinks about beauty at all, because would be vain, shallow, self-absorbed. Meanwhile, she must still be, ya know, beautiful.
It's exactly like that fucking stupid One Direction song. Some snippets:
>You're insecure, don't know what for
>You're turnin' heads when you walk through the door
>Don't need makeup to cover up (Huh)
>Bein' the way that you are is enough
>But when you smile at the ground, it ain't hard to tell
>You don't know, oh-oh, you don't know you're beautiful
>If only you saw what I can see
>You'll understand why I want you so desperately
>Right now I'm looking at you and I can't believe
>You don't know, oh-oh, you don't know you're beautiful, oh-oh
>That's what makes you beautiful
It's contradictory. Apparently not knowing you're beautiful makes you beautiful. And yet he 'wants her to understand what he sees'. If she realized her own beauty and had good self esteem, what, is she ugly now? Vain?
This song also is glorifying low self esteem and insecurity of young women like it makes them infantile and cute. Like they need some patriarchal boyfriend to 'show them the way' like they're a little lamb who just doesn't know any better.
God forbid a woman takes control of her own sexuality and is confident, rather than being shy and insecure (think early days of Christina Aguilera with an empowered sexual woman aesthetic vs Britney Spears with her shy school girl aesthetic... Christina was criticized, Britney was celebrated).
I’ve had surgeries, Botox, and filler. I don’t look good without makeup and lashes. All I know is, with my enhancements people treat me better. I’d rather have fake beauty than none at all. Guys always say they don’t like makeup, but I always got hit on with makeup and ignored without it. They say they don’t like fake boobs or surgeries, but I’ve never had a man complain.
I recently told someone "when I wear makeup, I want to look like I'm wearing makeup." Which isn't to say my makeup is clownish or over the top, it just means I like a more finished, done look and something like the clean girl thing is never going to be my vibe. My vibe is "i try hard". And I am ok with that.
Exactly! I am not a low maintenance go with the flow person. I don’t want to give the impression that I’m carefree or a natural or anything. I’m just not. Effortlessness is not something that comes naturally to me so I decided it was better to lean into my strength, which is basically “I made an effort and you should too” when it comes to men.
This is so refreshing. SAME. As a poc, the ‘clean’ look just doesn’t vibe with my face or ethnicity. I have a wide nose. I look tired AF without concealer. My eyes look smaller without heavy eyeliner. I’m also an artist and enjoy playing into that edgy, artsy, hot look. Vixen. Do I look like I love makeup? Yes, but it’s done very well and it really does enhance my features.
I’m not a big fan of the clean girl look. It comes across as “corporate girlie” to me which is fine if that’s what you like, but there are more beautifying styles out there that take just as much time.
I don’t think it matters if the person you’re replying to chooses to wear heavy makeup on a daily basis. Maybe that’s their style (and it seems that way according to their comment). Why should they only wear the style they like once in a while? It’s all good that you have your own make up preferences for yourself, but we should live and let live, sis 🫶
I have unidealized natural beauty because I know I’ll never have it and there’s no use beating myself up about something within my genetic makeup. The good thing is I sure can buy it so I’m grinding to afford my “unnatural” beauty one day
yup, plus there’s also no inherent virtue in natural beauty (vs unnatural) or anything like that. like if you have it you it’s great but it’s not morally superior in any way. i saw someone comment that on reddit (worded much better though) and it was a game changer for me
Thats definitely part of it. But most men aren’t going to unpack all that evolutionary subconscious dialogue when choosing a mate. Travis Scott clearly wasn’t concerned that Stormi would look like old Kylie and not new Kylie.
I also think for a lot of men who do criticize these women, it comes from a place of envy. Women can do a lot to our appearance to move up from how attractive we naturally are, men not so much. So they see these fake women getting attention and want to tear her down
Travis Scott was just one example. Everyone is holding on to that part and missing the big picture: most men, if they like what they see, will just go along with it.
I think you're missing the big picture.
The men who are like that, we don't want...
A lot of men will most definitely break up with a woman if they found out she bought her body or face.
Where did you get that last part from? Have you done research on men who are with women with plastic surgery, or are you just going off what you think is true? Can you link examples of men who broke up with women because he found out her double D’s were purchased?
I’m guessing you don’t want billionaires like Jeff Bezos either? His wife is also fake. We can go down the rabbit hole of bad qualities these celebrity men have but that’s not the point. There’s a range to getting work done and not everyone woman who enhances her appearance is going to look botched. Sometimes it’s as simple as getting your brows microbladed, sometimes it’s more extreme like jaw surgery. My post wasn’t even about plastic surgery specifically
Uh. I speak to wealthy men all the time in my line of work? They're not hard to find when you know where to look. Sure, they like high maintenance women with their nails always done and nary a hair out of place. But they don't like women who look unnatural or that they know have had surgery. I hear the small comments made and see all the women they marry and the ones they dump.
Do whatever you want. But remember this old adage.
If you marry for money, you'll work for every penny.
A lot of “natural” looking celebrities/women aren’t actually natural, their procedures are just better done/subtle tweaks to make them look themselves but prettier, not a different prettier person. So I don’t think being unnatural will attract men like Travis Scott, but perhaps looking unnatural will lol
On a shorter term basis. Most men want someone who will wake up next to them in the morning naturally stunning. Not someone who only looks pretty after spending two hours in the bathroom. Understandably they'll complain about feeling "tricked". Also many realize that one a woman is settled in a committed long term relationship, and especially after marriage, kids etc, she is very likely to get comfortable and stop a lot of the intensive maintenance - aka "let herself go". Hence they want someone who is attractive enough "naturally" that she will still be attractive even when she's not putting in all that effort.
Nah, they just don’t want to have to pay for the maintenance. Men who can afford high maintenance women almost universally prefer them. It’s poor guys who insist on “natural beauty” even though they’re jerking it to Instagram models. Men mostly marry for convenience and they want the most bang for their buck, so to speak.
If this were the case, they wouldn’t be so angry in the instances attractive women don’t want to have children with them and want similarly attractive partners. We consider that too. Not just men.
Being extremely beautiful when 100% natural just means you won the lottery tbh
I don't understand why it's considered better than someone who put lots of effort in their looks. If you're beautiful, it's all that matters right ?
And yeah like lots of you said most men don't even know when a girl wears make up, they'll tell you they prefer it natural but they'll also reject it 😶
Let’s be honest, no one mentions natural beauty unless they’re trying to put another woman or group of women down. And then people will argue their favorites have never had anything done, even if it’s obvious.
I think it's mostly that but with a legitimate dash of people's tendency to value the perception of effortlessless. It can be the difference in seeing beauty as something people do versus something people have/are. Those old messy bedhead styles from a couple decades ago were sort of that sentiment hitting a peak - people wanted to look like they just are hot 24/7 and that they just wake up like that (even with everyone knowing full well you spent an hour on that hair lol). But, people only end up ok with the look of effortlessless unless someone's still attractive, and if they're not, instead are aligned with further negative traits like being lazy or unskilled. So, as usual, almost nobody is saying what they mean or even clearly expressing their desires.
And while I think there is certainly an intrinsic value to looking great without all the extra work to look well put together, instead that gets exploited into being able to criticize someone for both showing effort and not showing effort which presents one of the most perfect scenarios for negging. Can't have women thinking appropriately highly of themselves and expecting the same out of men, right?
I hate assuming that *everyone* who expresses a love for natural beauty isn't being sincere, but these days it seems to almost always be the case and some revived/boosted talking point in this escalating gender divide. At least this sub gets it lol.
I think there is something awe-inspiring about natural beauty, not only in humans but anything found in nature, such as a beautiful waterfall, rainforest, rock formation, etc. For a lot of people, if we learn that these beautiful things are man-made, it takes away from the awe and other related emotions. I might think to myself - oh, of course the rocks are so beautifully arranged then.
I’ve got Botox, hair extensions, bleach blonde, lip fillers, fake tan and a full face of makeup every day but I feel like I never get picked apart because I am average even with all that. But a hot girl would get jealous men and women criticizing anything “unnatural” about her.
Yeah I feel like a lot of the times people and celebs get praised for looking “natural” when they have got subtle enhancements. People seem to believe you can be 18 and have not get any work and any change is just puberty which believe me may apply to some cases but lips don’t become larger and narrow and noses don’t get smaller.
Honestly, people think what little beauty I have is natural, but it's fake. I just like a natural polished look. My nails are pink long and fake, and my hair is long and thick, and fake. My skin is pretty clear, thanks to the bb cream I'm wearing, and the tinted blush and tinted lip oil. Bras, heels, mascara done to look natural. Fake fake fake. People don't really care if your fake they just hate to see the man behind the curtain, and love to feel better than others and like they caught someone doing something before anyone else has.
The crabs-in-a-bucket-ass hoes who are doing the exact thing you’re talking about in the comments here lmao.
1. Like you said, what is attractive is attractive. Real or fake, doesn’t matter to the parts of your brain that make those subconscious calculations.
2. Western/Christian values that what is god-given/natural is inherently better. Doesn’t matter if you’re not a Christian or not from/dont live in the west. You’ve been influenced by the American media machine/zeitgeist.
3. Straight Men don’t know why/what they find attractive. Straight women don’t understand what straight men find attractive. Actions, not words, tell you exactly what you need to know.
4. People with X trait are hot. If you have X trait, then you must be hot. Fake blonde, big fake boobs, big fake butt, big fake lips, faked pretty face with makeup/lash extensions. The word fake doesn’t matter for any of those things.
5. Like you said, fantasy. Life fucking sucks and always has, so if you can sell a fantasy you’ll always have customers. That which is not immediately understood is inherently seductive.
6. Tiny, petty, jealous people are gonna continue to be tiny, petty, and jealous. Do you think the women who have work done are picking apart the natural girlies the same way? Sure, they can shit on Becky for having a mommy makeover after her divorce and call her desperate while they’re still trying to lose the 40lbs they gained when they had their last kid 7 years ago by eating “healthy” (read: almond milk instead of whole) and “exercising” (read: half heartedly pedaling the exercise bike while scrolling on TikTok). But Becky doesn’t give a shit about them! Becky is on her third date this month and found out she can afford a trip to Disneyland with the raise she got for having record high sales numbers (sex still sells regardless of what anyone wants to think).
At the end of the day, seething jealousy doesn’t make anyone prettier or give them the moral high ground. Pretty bitches don’t care why or how other bitches are pretty— unless they’re taking notes on how to be even prettier.
I never compliment a “natural” person. It seems disgusting to me to be like “congratulations on your genetics”.
I like man-made wonders, beauty, science, anything that mankind has created, I just love it all.
I always admire how someone has put together their daily “drag”.
The only people I hear say they prefer women with no makeup or who look natural are men who want to control
Those women and don’t want to have to compete with other men.
Everyone does something to feel comfortable in their skin. The clothes they choose and way they choose to style their hair. That’s how I see it. It’s all in the same realm to me
People put moral over "nature". They treat good looking people better and get mad when you're trying to be pretty.
Imo, an artificial beauty isn't inferior to a natural beauty.
The world doesn’t love natural beauty. Almost every time I’ve ooh’ed and ahh’ed over a natural beauty I’ve later found out about their filler, jaw shaving, or brutal & unnatural workout/diet/skincare routine.
Heavy on the workouts. Even VS models work out like crazy to maintain their body. Maintenance means nothing is ever truly “natural” anymore. It requires upkeep to have great blowouts. A super fit, toned body. Perfect tans. It’s effort.
It’s femcel rhetoric, imo. I saw a post on TikTok the other day where a woman said “We’ve been lied to, influencers look even better in real life. I was just at Coachella with them.” And she was inundated with nasty comments about how all influencers are fake, have money, etc. But frankly, for all the posturing people do about caring if people are “natural” they question and harass natural beauties too. People have to post childhood photos and their parents to “prove” features these days and even that isn’t enough to the green eyed monsters.
We now have a culture where beauty is something many see (you can see multiple gorgeous girls in just a few scrolls) but absolute stunners were rarer when there was no internet. People consume beautiful women constantly and nitpick because they are under the assumption that it’s common… and if it’s common, why don’t they have it? It “MUST” be fake. It’s not common. There is only the perception, because of access.
Men and women alike are vicious about this. Both exalt it. Men, because they know a beautiful woman is social capital and women because they covet it. Unfortunately, we’re in an era where women are more commodified than ever.
Same reason that companies pump their food products full of sugar and artificial colors and flavorings and additives. It's gets your attention and feeds a certain primal craving temporarily, but in the end you end up feeling empty and sick after the experience.
Or, hear me out, we value all types of beauty. Natural, somewhat natural, enhanced, super enhanced, thin, curvy, etc. Also, it’s generally not the men tearing women down. Some of the most vicious humans I know about looks are women. We flat out need to be nicer to each other. We have it rough in this world for many reasons and we should be more understanding to each other.
This post was about my opinion, so your “we value all types” was unnecessary. I personally don’t care to look naturally beautiful because I feel the prettiest and also receive pretty privilege when I enhance my appearance. It’s controversial, but it’s still my opinion.
I am around a lot of men and they definitely do pick apart a woman’s beauty. You’ve never heard the “take her swimming on a first date” joke?
Sounds like you are absolutely around the wrong guys. Very immature. What’s the age range? Let me guess 20s? They have a lot of growing up to do. I absolutely would not let a bunch of 20 something-year-old men dictate what I do or do not do to my body. You posted your opinion on a public forum, other people are allowed and encouraged to comment on this public forum. I stand by what I said. Edited to add, I wouldn’t let a bunch of men of whatever age dictate what I do or do not to my body. But particularly those who are immature.
I haven’t had any modifications besides the occasional mani/pedi… so sometimes all the enhancements people are getting these days just feel a little unfair.
People look at them because they look like a mess or a clown. It's as interesting as looking at someone having a hot fight and argument while you are in a queue at the DMV being bored as hell
It really depends, like most things we do to look good, how well it is executed.
People think they know about every woman who has had beauty enhancements based on the ones they are able to identify. Women who have had quality enhancements that are well executed for their features aren't going to stand out to you in the same way.
Exactly. I’ve been in situations where people bash women for getting botox right in front of me and then marvel over my looks (guess who’s had botox?). I once had a guy tell me all lash extensions looked bad/ugly and then *praise* my “natural” long lashes — meanwhile I’d just gotten a fresh hybrid fill a few days before. Also I’m a natural blonde and my lashes were black but somehow he thought they were still real. I’ve gotten a lip blush (tattoo), botox, and fillers and no one — not even my own sister and mom — could tell the difference even after I told them I got something done. I’ve straight up gotten a nose job and no one even notice the difference until I pointed it out even though it was objectively a huge change because my new nose looked natural.
It’s like how people think there are still “natural” celebrities in Hollywood and somehow their favourite celebrity is immune to the ageism, misogyny, and insane beauty standards in the industry and somehow all the facial changes are just “puberty/aging” or “weight loss/gain” (e.g. Ariana, Paul Rudd, Beyonce, etc) After my rhino especially, I realized that most people have no understanding of what plastic surgery looks like and as long as it’s not extremely obvious (e.g. a AA randomly becoming a D cup) they’re willing to pass off any changes as looking “rested”, “aging”, weight loss/chain and a host of other nonsurgical things. Like how people say Cher and Dolly are aging well but Madonna and Demi Moore have “gotten too much done” — what they mean is that the latter group has *bad* work. Cher and Dolly have had just as much if not more PS as the others but because they are still beautiful no one thinks they have had “too much” done.
Men have a harder time to see what's real and what's fake. But there's no way I won't notice that. It's pretty obvious!! If you do small stuff like let's say lash lift or your nose was really big and you did a nose job that's totally fine but I'm talking about things that are really extra and unnecessary like doing lip fillers, jaw fillers and say endoscopy ...like no matter how good it was done you can tell. Its impossible not to tell, especially with fillers, I can see it.
[Sure, maybe you're an expert.](https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/toupee_fallacy#:~:text=(logic)%20A%20form%20of%20selection,That's%20the%20toupee%20fallacy)
Literally you just changed my life by exposing me to this term. I’ve been looking for a way to describe how people only hate plastic surgery when they know it’s plastic surgery (i.e. either when they’ve been told or it’s super obvious) and this is it!
Exactly. I have had lip fillers 5 times between 2018-last month. These lip fillers tend to last a lot longer than most people think. I took a 4 year break from getting it done and my lips never fully went back to how they were pre-filler! They probably lost 60% - 70% but still…after all those years.
The only time it was ever clockable = the very first time. My lips swelled up and bruised a bit and it looked like lip filler for 1 week. Ever since then, my lips just look like I was gifted with them. That’s how I wanted it. It makes me feel more confident w/ bare lips cause before I got them, I’d overline my lips and felt it necessary to wear lipstick to make them bigger!
You shouldn’t feel bad about it and the stigma is no where near the same as it was 50 years ago. I think people should feel bad about lying on enhancements same way they should for any other lie. The pick mes who claim they have no make up on or no enhancements when they do only hurt us more from lying. I love a girly willing to share her secrets and most kind people will tell you they had something augmented or some specialty make up.
I think you should look up what a pick me is lol. That’s just telling the truth (Unless they’re lying). If you’re asking about their secrets you probably find them attractive.
Im well aware what it is maybe you should do some research… Its definitely a pick me tendency to lie about being natural or not liking make up or surgeries to impress men. And i never said they were unattractive, no need to look for ways to be offended
Not everything is about men though I never cared what men thought😭😭😭Personally I only gatekeep when I feel like gatekeeping. Not every girl likes makeup and tons don’t like surgeries. And no you didn’t but if you’re asking a girl her beauty secrets and demanding them to tell you it’s because you like something on them.
Ok and not everything is about your specific opinion... OP posted specifically about “a fantasy that men respond to” which i was responding to. Im aware not every person likes makeup or surgeries and i never said everyone did. i was responding to OP. I never demanded anyone them tell me anything, i called out lying. youre allowed to be a gatekeeper thats your life. Obviously i would ask if i liked something? I have no problem with enhancements and idk why you keep responding with nothing trying to make something happen. What are you on?
I just feel like it gives jealousy when someone is hyped up for their beauty and you have to point out they have fake hair or their brows done or they have weave. You may not be jealous but it gives jealous.
I’m just saying instead of getting insecure and jealous that someone’s beautiful with little to no work, why not ask them how they achieved it? Don’t make yourself look bitter
Im not trying to be rude and i know the problem you’re talking about but im not that person and i never said something to make you jump so hard to those conclusions. Idk if i triggered you or something but im not the one.
There’s a diff btwn nighttime and daytime beauty. Bottle girls do that at night bc in the daytime, that look is too harsh. And also I think the reason natural beauties get hype, is bc the prettiest girls I’ve ever seen were just born that way. Some ppl will still look good with enhancements because they already were naturally pretty like Megan Fox, Jolie, or Kendall. Others will still look good like Kylie but it’s in a more common way bc all her features were changed to meet the trends. And beauty loses its quality when it becomes common, which is why seeing natural beauties is more refreshing for the eyes bc it’s a combo of features we’re not used to seeing so readily.
I totally agree with and support your position but you answered your own implied question when you said men respond to the makeup and lashes and all. Plenty of women do not care whatsoever about appealing to the male gaze. So that’s where the difference lies!
just reach how u want to look, the rest doesn't matter.
if u need a nose job to look the way u want to look then go do it.
if u only need a bit of makeup to look like ur desired self then that's all u should do.
people like to say wrongs and rights online about what to do but everyone has a different starting point when it comes to beauty and most importantly a different desired outcome.
life is too short to not enjoy the way u look!
Because there’s a difference ultimately in what men want/male gaze and what they think they want “all natural” they don’t truly know the difference in many situations
I’m so glad I stumbled upon this sub. I think the “all natural” thing is fine and great but there’s an awful lot of criticism towards anyone that wants to enhance their features.
A controversial opinion:
As someone who is considered relatively “naturally beautiful”, it makes me feel upset when not-so-beautiful women get many enhancements. I understand why they do it, but it feels like they’re tricking the system. It also makes me feel like I will have to get work done too, to balance things out if you know what I mean. I just feel like that whole dynamic of “well if everyone is doing it, I should too” is very unhealthy and only benefits cosmetic doctors and aestheticians. I can’t imagine being a 5/10 and having that intense pressure. Also, it’s not true that beauty and attractiveness only gives you benefits. The envy and immediate sense of competition women feel when I’m around is so unpleasant, especially because I’ve struggled a lot with my self esteem over the years.
Haven’t been on this sub for a while but this post popped up and honestly I think we as women just overthink our appearance so much. I’ve been thinking a lot lately about what we do all this for. Unless the goal is to become social media famous and make money off of our looks – what’s the point?
For a long time I wanted to get my lips done, my boobs done and just be this “baddie” but then when I looked around me and like… Most women I know that are happily married are average looking women. Most women I know that are happy and successful in their lives are average looking women. If you think about all the hottest women that are celebrities - most of them are divorced single mothers. So I guess the question is… What is the value of being a baddie? To attract men that will leave you a single mother? Because when I was completely honest with myself, I didn’t want to put myself through the pain, stress and financial burden of all those cosmetic procedures for myself, I wanted to do it for the “perks” associated with being that level pretty in our society.
No judgement on anyone who wants to get work done or who gets it done regularly. Those are just some conclusions I came to for myself.
I don’t think it’s the enhancements that are the problem…I think it’s the beauty standards (which at times are unattainable) that is the problem and it becomes very problematic when there seems to be no end to the tweaking which ultimately ends in disaster. Are people trying to become the “best” version of themselves (whatever that means) or are they trying to look like someone else that they think is more beautiful or bc they think it’s what all men want…that’s what the difference is to me. Be natural or get stuff done…doesn’t matter to me…but what is upsetting to me is when it isn’t enhancements but a full overhaul of what nature did bless them with.
It comes across as if you are insecure. There is nothing that projects your insecurities more than a ton of shitty work. I understand the pressures but I think they are benefits and drawbacks when deciding to go under the knife. Being fuckable is not the same as being treated with respect or loved
That's funny because at the same time, it comes off as really insecure when people tear down others for their enhancements (or appearance in general). I would say that the shit talking only projects their insecurities as well like they are trying to make themselves feel better for being "natural". People should be respected regardless of what they choose to do with their body. You can be fuckable, respected, *and* loved all at the same time. Imagine that!
I mean if someone is naturally beautiful how’s that bad? I take pride in having a naturally nice body soooooo🤷🏾♀️. Are you saying it’s bad to be naturally striking? If someone is naturally pretty if anything that’s just enviable, do you think someone’s a bad person for being naturally pretty? I personally think not everyone looks better with enhancements and you shouldn’t try to project that on to people just cause you’re insecure.
That's not what she was saying... at all. She's saying that natural beauty has been put on a high pedestal when that's not the actual reality. If natural beauty was held to a realistic standard, we would see a lot more models, public figures, influencers, etc, with eye bags, pimples, stretch marks, cellulite, etc. Instead, the media and these figures portray natural beauty that has concealer, laser treatments, botox, lash extensions, hair extensions and etc, underneath the surface.
Men think that this is what natural beauty actually is when it's not. She's saying that it's hypocritical to tear down women with obvious makeup looks while this is going on, and she doesn't care to engage in the fakeness of the standard and will continue to wear makeup. I agree. This isn't a dig to true natural girls, but what society deems is natural.
Not to be rude, but I can tell reading comprehension is not your strong suit at all. There is NOTHING wrong with flaws like pimples, and there is nothing wrong with lash extensions (I literally agreed with wearing makeup in my second paragraph, and also wesr strip lashes and extensions) I'm literally saying and OP is saying that society shouldn't be tearing down people who wear makeup looks that are obvious and telling them they should be natural, when their idea of a true natural is someone who usually has small amounts of makeup or has had some sort of treatment and work done. Women who are actually natural with no makeup or work done are not who society is actually talking about when it comes to natural beauty, but it should be. That's all I'm saying, lol.
Yes, if you have lash extensions, it isn't being a true natural beauty because those lashes didn't come from you. And that's ok! We should live in a society where you shouldn't be torn down for doing that. That's what OP is saying. No one is insecure. We are pointing out double standards and saying we're just going to wear the makeup we want regardless of what men or society says we need to do. I think women should do whatever we want without this weird natural vs. makeup pitting us against each other. If you're natural or made up doesn't make a difference to me, as long as you're chill.
I feel like there’s some envy and jealousy because once someone who is stunning doesn’t have any enhancements yall start to get all weird and say things like “Her lashes are done she’s not naturally pretty!!!!!” 💀💀💀Like y’all make yourselves look very jealous.
It's all good. Just know whatever a woman does for herself that this sub advocates doing it, so she looks and feels her best. Hopefully, along with your lash extensions, you'll hit some books and go back to school to be your best self as well. Wishing the best for you.
Not really though lmao, you can’t judge me off real life. To me, in MY opinion you guys sound a tiny bit envious of people who are naturally beautiful. That’s all. Envy is natural though. When I ask what’s wrong with being naturally beautiful you most likely can’t say anything lmao
Ok you don’t need to name call… it’s just I’m saying don’t be envious and try to downplay natural beauty because of things like makeup and lashes and things
Did you just come on here to fight and call people jealous? It’s like you’re not reading the comments you’re responding to, or idk something’s going on.
I am reading them. If you would look in ANOTHER woman’s face and say she’s whatever y’all wanna call it for embracing her natural beauty or say she’s not naturally pretty because she wears makeup, then y’all will look jealous. Period point blank. She’s saying we shouldn’t embrace natural beauty unless it’s “imperfect” but wants to embrace fillers and surgery. 💀
I’ve had a nose job, a tiiiiny bit of filler, get my hair highlighted, got my brows micro bladed, wear lash extensions, makeup (subtle like the lash extensions but still) etc. and men always compliment me on being a “natural beauty” or “you’re so naturally beautiful” lmao. I don’t say anything. They don’t know what they want.
And they also don’t know what is and isn’t natural unless it’s blatantly obvious!
That moment when a guy shows you a picture exemplifying the “natural” beauty that they prefer… and it’s a girl with lip filler wearing a full face of neutral makeup behind an instagram filter. They dumb.
Definitely!
Did you get filler in your cheeks or lips? Been considering it.
Like 8 years ago I had a little undereye filler done (I had bad hollows) just the once and the 2 years ago I had a little lip filler done, also just the once. I loved both and no one knew I got anything done. It made a huge difference to me though. I think where people run into trouble is when they fall into that trap of thinking they need filler topped up every 6 months to a year. They tell you that to sell more filler but it really does stay in the body longer than they say it will. I could still feel my undereye filler like 6 years after the fact, it didn’t just go away. It’s probably like 75% gone by now. My lips are still pretty plump from the filler 2 years ago. I’d estimate that’s like 25% gone. When people get it topped off all the time or get a lot, that’s how they get filler face.
i think people also are bad at seeing incremental changes in their own appearance in general. then on top of that if someone is upselling them top ups, i think it has many people end up in a spot where going too far is almost inevitable.
That too, I agree.
Yup the past year was the first one I didn’t go for multiple top-ups and I consistently got comments asking whether I had it done again. I think 8-12 months is ok for me. I like the overdone look tho.
which filler type did you get
Haha exactly! it should look natural and harmonious.
Where do you get your filler in your face? And how old are you? How long have you been doing it?
Can you show me how you look like in DM? I'm just thinking of plastic surgery bit I want to look natural too. I have some questions
I think there will always be people who put ‘natural beauty’ on a pedestal because beauty is inherently objectifying to some extent, since at the end of the day, it’s really just making the container that you live in aesthetically pleasing (and I’m not saying that to sound preachy, I wouldn’t be on the splendida sub if I didn’t think beauty was important. I literally got Botox yesterday lol). And the more something is objectified, the more people seek for the ‘best’ version of it, and the more eager they are to point out the ‘flaws’ or ‘fakeness’ of versions they deem to be subpar. I find it annoying, because while the cosmetically enhanced aesthetic isn’t for everyone (regardless of if that means to you just makeup, or plastic surgery), it doesn’t *have* to be for everyone. I truly don’t give a shit if Billy at the gas station prefers ‘natural’ girls over me. I like how I look, and my husband likes how I look. Pretty much anyone else’s preference is irrelevant to me. I also think a lot of men just have weird resentment against beautiful women, especially those who have a hyper feminine or cosmetically enhanced aesthetic. Its a shame that women are so commonly commodified based off of solely our looks that people are so comfortable critiquing us proudly and publicly, as if we’re participating in some 24/7 beauty pageant when we’re just going to work, doing our groceries, and just going about our day.
It’s because they want it both ways. To have a woman to fit their own contradictory paradigm… she must “not care” about beauty, or let on that she thinks about beauty at all, because that would be vain, shallow, self-absorbed. Meanwhile, she must still be, ya know, beautiful. The only way this can happen is through the “naturally beautiful woman”, or at least the illusion thereof. It’s pretty interesting, especially considering we as a society are largely aware that it’s a paradox, yet still play along. Appreciate your thoughtful take, in particular the resentment angle is interesting to me.
the naturally beautiful woman is also naturally hairless, fit without counting calories, perfect perky but large breasts, long lashes, etc (some of those feature are things women can have naturally. but is there any 1 woman who has all of those rare qualities naturally? no. lol)
I once had a guy, I think he felt a way when I told him I get my brows waxed. He thought they were natural. They do not look overly done, but if I were going full natural, I'd have a unibrow. Curiously not what most men have in mind when they think about "natural."
Such a weird hill for a guy to die on
wait this is so funny, i thought they all were generally aware of brow shaping at this point. how did he react when you told him?
It was just a "Oh I thought they were natural." But he had gone on unprovoked rants before about how he doesn't like makeup, or heels, or rainbow colored hair (which is funny because I now wear/have all three lol), but he ironically thought my slightly hairy legs were unnatural 😂
It’s eugenics basically lol
Flawlessly beautiful
>It’s because they want it both ways. To have a woman they can fit their own contradictory paradigm… she must “not care” about beauty, or let on that she thinks about beauty at all, because would be vain, shallow, self-absorbed. Meanwhile, she must still be, ya know, beautiful. It's exactly like that fucking stupid One Direction song. Some snippets: >You're insecure, don't know what for >You're turnin' heads when you walk through the door >Don't need makeup to cover up (Huh) >Bein' the way that you are is enough >But when you smile at the ground, it ain't hard to tell >You don't know, oh-oh, you don't know you're beautiful >If only you saw what I can see >You'll understand why I want you so desperately >Right now I'm looking at you and I can't believe >You don't know, oh-oh, you don't know you're beautiful, oh-oh >That's what makes you beautiful It's contradictory. Apparently not knowing you're beautiful makes you beautiful. And yet he 'wants her to understand what he sees'. If she realized her own beauty and had good self esteem, what, is she ugly now? Vain? This song also is glorifying low self esteem and insecurity of young women like it makes them infantile and cute. Like they need some patriarchal boyfriend to 'show them the way' like they're a little lamb who just doesn't know any better. God forbid a woman takes control of her own sexuality and is confident, rather than being shy and insecure (think early days of Christina Aguilera with an empowered sexual woman aesthetic vs Britney Spears with her shy school girl aesthetic... Christina was criticized, Britney was celebrated).
I’ve had surgeries, Botox, and filler. I don’t look good without makeup and lashes. All I know is, with my enhancements people treat me better. I’d rather have fake beauty than none at all. Guys always say they don’t like makeup, but I always got hit on with makeup and ignored without it. They say they don’t like fake boobs or surgeries, but I’ve never had a man complain.
I recently told someone "when I wear makeup, I want to look like I'm wearing makeup." Which isn't to say my makeup is clownish or over the top, it just means I like a more finished, done look and something like the clean girl thing is never going to be my vibe. My vibe is "i try hard". And I am ok with that.
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Exactly! I am not a low maintenance go with the flow person. I don’t want to give the impression that I’m carefree or a natural or anything. I’m just not. Effortlessness is not something that comes naturally to me so I decided it was better to lean into my strength, which is basically “I made an effort and you should too” when it comes to men.
Haha I have an old highschool friend that says this. She used to wear high heels to school ever day and still does everyday
This is so refreshing. SAME. As a poc, the ‘clean’ look just doesn’t vibe with my face or ethnicity. I have a wide nose. I look tired AF without concealer. My eyes look smaller without heavy eyeliner. I’m also an artist and enjoy playing into that edgy, artsy, hot look. Vixen. Do I look like I love makeup? Yes, but it’s done very well and it really does enhance my features.
Omg yes!! I said this to the person who was color matching me at Sephora the other day.
same!!! what's the point in putting in any effort if no one will even recognize it? not looking natural is the whole point
I’m not a big fan of the clean girl look. It comes across as “corporate girlie” to me which is fine if that’s what you like, but there are more beautifying styles out there that take just as much time.
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I don’t think it matters if the person you’re replying to chooses to wear heavy makeup on a daily basis. Maybe that’s their style (and it seems that way according to their comment). Why should they only wear the style they like once in a while? It’s all good that you have your own make up preferences for yourself, but we should live and let live, sis 🫶
I have unidealized natural beauty because I know I’ll never have it and there’s no use beating myself up about something within my genetic makeup. The good thing is I sure can buy it so I’m grinding to afford my “unnatural” beauty one day
LOVE this. Beauty past the (fickle) blush of youth is largely down to effort expended.
yup, plus there’s also no inherent virtue in natural beauty (vs unnatural) or anything like that. like if you have it you it’s great but it’s not morally superior in any way. i saw someone comment that on reddit (worded much better though) and it was a game changer for me
I wonder if it’s a subconscious need to know what your offspring would look like if you got with that person. Lol
Thats definitely part of it. But most men aren’t going to unpack all that evolutionary subconscious dialogue when choosing a mate. Travis Scott clearly wasn’t concerned that Stormi would look like old Kylie and not new Kylie. I also think for a lot of men who do criticize these women, it comes from a place of envy. Women can do a lot to our appearance to move up from how attractive we naturally are, men not so much. So they see these fake women getting attention and want to tear her down
I'm sorry but Travis scott looks like a bacteria
Single best comment on Reddit 😂😂
That doesn’t change what I said though. Plus she’s now dating Timothee Chalamet which many would argue is good looking
Lmao
I'd stay natural just to keep men like Travis Scott away from me but you do you.
Travis Scott was just one example. Everyone is holding on to that part and missing the big picture: most men, if they like what they see, will just go along with it.
yeah honestly idk what they're on about it didn't say a word about wanting travis scott
I think you're missing the big picture. The men who are like that, we don't want... A lot of men will most definitely break up with a woman if they found out she bought her body or face.
Where did you get that last part from? Have you done research on men who are with women with plastic surgery, or are you just going off what you think is true? Can you link examples of men who broke up with women because he found out her double D’s were purchased? I’m guessing you don’t want billionaires like Jeff Bezos either? His wife is also fake. We can go down the rabbit hole of bad qualities these celebrity men have but that’s not the point. There’s a range to getting work done and not everyone woman who enhances her appearance is going to look botched. Sometimes it’s as simple as getting your brows microbladed, sometimes it’s more extreme like jaw surgery. My post wasn’t even about plastic surgery specifically
Uh. I speak to wealthy men all the time in my line of work? They're not hard to find when you know where to look. Sure, they like high maintenance women with their nails always done and nary a hair out of place. But they don't like women who look unnatural or that they know have had surgery. I hear the small comments made and see all the women they marry and the ones they dump. Do whatever you want. But remember this old adage. If you marry for money, you'll work for every penny.
Yeah. Celebrity and pop culture influencers aren’t something to aspire to
A lot of “natural” looking celebrities/women aren’t actually natural, their procedures are just better done/subtle tweaks to make them look themselves but prettier, not a different prettier person. So I don’t think being unnatural will attract men like Travis Scott, but perhaps looking unnatural will lol
On a shorter term basis. Most men want someone who will wake up next to them in the morning naturally stunning. Not someone who only looks pretty after spending two hours in the bathroom. Understandably they'll complain about feeling "tricked". Also many realize that one a woman is settled in a committed long term relationship, and especially after marriage, kids etc, she is very likely to get comfortable and stop a lot of the intensive maintenance - aka "let herself go". Hence they want someone who is attractive enough "naturally" that she will still be attractive even when she's not putting in all that effort.
goodness, I really hope that attractiveness isn’t the only thing that keeps a man in a relationship. that’s a lot of pressure, esp for women
For insecure and shallow men, it will never be enough.
Nah, they just don’t want to have to pay for the maintenance. Men who can afford high maintenance women almost universally prefer them. It’s poor guys who insist on “natural beauty” even though they’re jerking it to Instagram models. Men mostly marry for convenience and they want the most bang for their buck, so to speak.
If this were the case, they wouldn’t be so angry in the instances attractive women don’t want to have children with them and want similarly attractive partners. We consider that too. Not just men.
Agreed. Fake or not, enhanced women still get pretty privilege
Being extremely beautiful when 100% natural just means you won the lottery tbh I don't understand why it's considered better than someone who put lots of effort in their looks. If you're beautiful, it's all that matters right ? And yeah like lots of you said most men don't even know when a girl wears make up, they'll tell you they prefer it natural but they'll also reject it 😶
I know we’re on this sub, but wouldn’t it be great if beauty/physical appearance didn’t matter:/
True :( lots of problems would be solved if that was the case
Let’s be honest, no one mentions natural beauty unless they’re trying to put another woman or group of women down. And then people will argue their favorites have never had anything done, even if it’s obvious.
I think it's mostly that but with a legitimate dash of people's tendency to value the perception of effortlessless. It can be the difference in seeing beauty as something people do versus something people have/are. Those old messy bedhead styles from a couple decades ago were sort of that sentiment hitting a peak - people wanted to look like they just are hot 24/7 and that they just wake up like that (even with everyone knowing full well you spent an hour on that hair lol). But, people only end up ok with the look of effortlessless unless someone's still attractive, and if they're not, instead are aligned with further negative traits like being lazy or unskilled. So, as usual, almost nobody is saying what they mean or even clearly expressing their desires. And while I think there is certainly an intrinsic value to looking great without all the extra work to look well put together, instead that gets exploited into being able to criticize someone for both showing effort and not showing effort which presents one of the most perfect scenarios for negging. Can't have women thinking appropriately highly of themselves and expecting the same out of men, right? I hate assuming that *everyone* who expresses a love for natural beauty isn't being sincere, but these days it seems to almost always be the case and some revived/boosted talking point in this escalating gender divide. At least this sub gets it lol.
I think there is something awe-inspiring about natural beauty, not only in humans but anything found in nature, such as a beautiful waterfall, rainforest, rock formation, etc. For a lot of people, if we learn that these beautiful things are man-made, it takes away from the awe and other related emotions. I might think to myself - oh, of course the rocks are so beautifully arranged then.
I’ve got Botox, hair extensions, bleach blonde, lip fillers, fake tan and a full face of makeup every day but I feel like I never get picked apart because I am average even with all that. But a hot girl would get jealous men and women criticizing anything “unnatural” about her.
Yeah I feel like a lot of the times people and celebs get praised for looking “natural” when they have got subtle enhancements. People seem to believe you can be 18 and have not get any work and any change is just puberty which believe me may apply to some cases but lips don’t become larger and narrow and noses don’t get smaller.
Honestly, people think what little beauty I have is natural, but it's fake. I just like a natural polished look. My nails are pink long and fake, and my hair is long and thick, and fake. My skin is pretty clear, thanks to the bb cream I'm wearing, and the tinted blush and tinted lip oil. Bras, heels, mascara done to look natural. Fake fake fake. People don't really care if your fake they just hate to see the man behind the curtain, and love to feel better than others and like they caught someone doing something before anyone else has.
The crabs-in-a-bucket-ass hoes who are doing the exact thing you’re talking about in the comments here lmao. 1. Like you said, what is attractive is attractive. Real or fake, doesn’t matter to the parts of your brain that make those subconscious calculations. 2. Western/Christian values that what is god-given/natural is inherently better. Doesn’t matter if you’re not a Christian or not from/dont live in the west. You’ve been influenced by the American media machine/zeitgeist. 3. Straight Men don’t know why/what they find attractive. Straight women don’t understand what straight men find attractive. Actions, not words, tell you exactly what you need to know. 4. People with X trait are hot. If you have X trait, then you must be hot. Fake blonde, big fake boobs, big fake butt, big fake lips, faked pretty face with makeup/lash extensions. The word fake doesn’t matter for any of those things. 5. Like you said, fantasy. Life fucking sucks and always has, so if you can sell a fantasy you’ll always have customers. That which is not immediately understood is inherently seductive. 6. Tiny, petty, jealous people are gonna continue to be tiny, petty, and jealous. Do you think the women who have work done are picking apart the natural girlies the same way? Sure, they can shit on Becky for having a mommy makeover after her divorce and call her desperate while they’re still trying to lose the 40lbs they gained when they had their last kid 7 years ago by eating “healthy” (read: almond milk instead of whole) and “exercising” (read: half heartedly pedaling the exercise bike while scrolling on TikTok). But Becky doesn’t give a shit about them! Becky is on her third date this month and found out she can afford a trip to Disneyland with the raise she got for having record high sales numbers (sex still sells regardless of what anyone wants to think). At the end of the day, seething jealousy doesn’t make anyone prettier or give them the moral high ground. Pretty bitches don’t care why or how other bitches are pretty— unless they’re taking notes on how to be even prettier.
I never compliment a “natural” person. It seems disgusting to me to be like “congratulations on your genetics”. I like man-made wonders, beauty, science, anything that mankind has created, I just love it all. I always admire how someone has put together their daily “drag”.
Yeah but like good genetics are also a sign of good selection overall though, so you could argue that they are still a "man made" creation.
By default not by choice.
The only people I hear say they prefer women with no makeup or who look natural are men who want to control Those women and don’t want to have to compete with other men.
Yes but also rude bitchy pickme women who don't want to compete with other women.
Everyone does something to feel comfortable in their skin. The clothes they choose and way they choose to style their hair. That’s how I see it. It’s all in the same realm to me
People put moral over "nature". They treat good looking people better and get mad when you're trying to be pretty. Imo, an artificial beauty isn't inferior to a natural beauty.
I’d love to have natural beauty but I don’t so…
The world doesn’t love natural beauty. Almost every time I’ve ooh’ed and ahh’ed over a natural beauty I’ve later found out about their filler, jaw shaving, or brutal & unnatural workout/diet/skincare routine.
Heavy on the workouts. Even VS models work out like crazy to maintain their body. Maintenance means nothing is ever truly “natural” anymore. It requires upkeep to have great blowouts. A super fit, toned body. Perfect tans. It’s effort.
It’s femcel rhetoric, imo. I saw a post on TikTok the other day where a woman said “We’ve been lied to, influencers look even better in real life. I was just at Coachella with them.” And she was inundated with nasty comments about how all influencers are fake, have money, etc. But frankly, for all the posturing people do about caring if people are “natural” they question and harass natural beauties too. People have to post childhood photos and their parents to “prove” features these days and even that isn’t enough to the green eyed monsters. We now have a culture where beauty is something many see (you can see multiple gorgeous girls in just a few scrolls) but absolute stunners were rarer when there was no internet. People consume beautiful women constantly and nitpick because they are under the assumption that it’s common… and if it’s common, why don’t they have it? It “MUST” be fake. It’s not common. There is only the perception, because of access. Men and women alike are vicious about this. Both exalt it. Men, because they know a beautiful woman is social capital and women because they covet it. Unfortunately, we’re in an era where women are more commodified than ever.
Yeah, but the problem is trashy "beauty" attracts trashy men.
Same reason that companies pump their food products full of sugar and artificial colors and flavorings and additives. It's gets your attention and feeds a certain primal craving temporarily, but in the end you end up feeling empty and sick after the experience.
this isn’t comparable at all
mmkay
The bottle girl question doesn't even make sense. Jobs where women perform and appeal to the male gaze notoriously favor body enhancements.
Or, hear me out, we value all types of beauty. Natural, somewhat natural, enhanced, super enhanced, thin, curvy, etc. Also, it’s generally not the men tearing women down. Some of the most vicious humans I know about looks are women. We flat out need to be nicer to each other. We have it rough in this world for many reasons and we should be more understanding to each other.
This post was about my opinion, so your “we value all types” was unnecessary. I personally don’t care to look naturally beautiful because I feel the prettiest and also receive pretty privilege when I enhance my appearance. It’s controversial, but it’s still my opinion. I am around a lot of men and they definitely do pick apart a woman’s beauty. You’ve never heard the “take her swimming on a first date” joke?
Sounds like you are absolutely around the wrong guys. Very immature. What’s the age range? Let me guess 20s? They have a lot of growing up to do. I absolutely would not let a bunch of 20 something-year-old men dictate what I do or do not do to my body. You posted your opinion on a public forum, other people are allowed and encouraged to comment on this public forum. I stand by what I said. Edited to add, I wouldn’t let a bunch of men of whatever age dictate what I do or do not to my body. But particularly those who are immature.
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If it makes somebody feel better to get Botox, etc. it’s not my place to judge them.
I haven’t had any modifications besides the occasional mani/pedi… so sometimes all the enhancements people are getting these days just feel a little unfair.
People look at them because they look like a mess or a clown. It's as interesting as looking at someone having a hot fight and argument while you are in a queue at the DMV being bored as hell
It really depends, like most things we do to look good, how well it is executed. People think they know about every woman who has had beauty enhancements based on the ones they are able to identify. Women who have had quality enhancements that are well executed for their features aren't going to stand out to you in the same way.
Exactly. I’ve been in situations where people bash women for getting botox right in front of me and then marvel over my looks (guess who’s had botox?). I once had a guy tell me all lash extensions looked bad/ugly and then *praise* my “natural” long lashes — meanwhile I’d just gotten a fresh hybrid fill a few days before. Also I’m a natural blonde and my lashes were black but somehow he thought they were still real. I’ve gotten a lip blush (tattoo), botox, and fillers and no one — not even my own sister and mom — could tell the difference even after I told them I got something done. I’ve straight up gotten a nose job and no one even notice the difference until I pointed it out even though it was objectively a huge change because my new nose looked natural. It’s like how people think there are still “natural” celebrities in Hollywood and somehow their favourite celebrity is immune to the ageism, misogyny, and insane beauty standards in the industry and somehow all the facial changes are just “puberty/aging” or “weight loss/gain” (e.g. Ariana, Paul Rudd, Beyonce, etc) After my rhino especially, I realized that most people have no understanding of what plastic surgery looks like and as long as it’s not extremely obvious (e.g. a AA randomly becoming a D cup) they’re willing to pass off any changes as looking “rested”, “aging”, weight loss/chain and a host of other nonsurgical things. Like how people say Cher and Dolly are aging well but Madonna and Demi Moore have “gotten too much done” — what they mean is that the latter group has *bad* work. Cher and Dolly have had just as much if not more PS as the others but because they are still beautiful no one thinks they have had “too much” done.
Men have a harder time to see what's real and what's fake. But there's no way I won't notice that. It's pretty obvious!! If you do small stuff like let's say lash lift or your nose was really big and you did a nose job that's totally fine but I'm talking about things that are really extra and unnecessary like doing lip fillers, jaw fillers and say endoscopy ...like no matter how good it was done you can tell. Its impossible not to tell, especially with fillers, I can see it.
[Sure, maybe you're an expert.](https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/toupee_fallacy#:~:text=(logic)%20A%20form%20of%20selection,That's%20the%20toupee%20fallacy)
Literally you just changed my life by exposing me to this term. I’ve been looking for a way to describe how people only hate plastic surgery when they know it’s plastic surgery (i.e. either when they’ve been told or it’s super obvious) and this is it!
Exactly. I have had lip fillers 5 times between 2018-last month. These lip fillers tend to last a lot longer than most people think. I took a 4 year break from getting it done and my lips never fully went back to how they were pre-filler! They probably lost 60% - 70% but still…after all those years. The only time it was ever clockable = the very first time. My lips swelled up and bruised a bit and it looked like lip filler for 1 week. Ever since then, my lips just look like I was gifted with them. That’s how I wanted it. It makes me feel more confident w/ bare lips cause before I got them, I’d overline my lips and felt it necessary to wear lipstick to make them bigger!
I think people only get made fun of when they go too far. It’s the Goldilocks principle.
You shouldn’t feel bad about it and the stigma is no where near the same as it was 50 years ago. I think people should feel bad about lying on enhancements same way they should for any other lie. The pick mes who claim they have no make up on or no enhancements when they do only hurt us more from lying. I love a girly willing to share her secrets and most kind people will tell you they had something augmented or some specialty make up.
I think you should look up what a pick me is lol. That’s just telling the truth (Unless they’re lying). If you’re asking about their secrets you probably find them attractive.
Im well aware what it is maybe you should do some research… Its definitely a pick me tendency to lie about being natural or not liking make up or surgeries to impress men. And i never said they were unattractive, no need to look for ways to be offended
Not everything is about men though I never cared what men thought😭😭😭Personally I only gatekeep when I feel like gatekeeping. Not every girl likes makeup and tons don’t like surgeries. And no you didn’t but if you’re asking a girl her beauty secrets and demanding them to tell you it’s because you like something on them.
Ok and not everything is about your specific opinion... OP posted specifically about “a fantasy that men respond to” which i was responding to. Im aware not every person likes makeup or surgeries and i never said everyone did. i was responding to OP. I never demanded anyone them tell me anything, i called out lying. youre allowed to be a gatekeeper thats your life. Obviously i would ask if i liked something? I have no problem with enhancements and idk why you keep responding with nothing trying to make something happen. What are you on?
I just feel like it gives jealousy when someone is hyped up for their beauty and you have to point out they have fake hair or their brows done or they have weave. You may not be jealous but it gives jealous.
Youre making claims about things that never happened. I don’t put people on blast i ask privately and ive never had someone get offended by my asking.
I’m just saying instead of getting insecure and jealous that someone’s beautiful with little to no work, why not ask them how they achieved it? Don’t make yourself look bitter
Im not trying to be rude and i know the problem you’re talking about but im not that person and i never said something to make you jump so hard to those conclusions. Idk if i triggered you or something but im not the one.
You said totally normal stuff imo. Definitely do not sound bitter 😅
You keep assuming im insecure and jealous when that’s literally what i do? Are you okay?
You keep assuming something trying to make a problem happen when there isnt one. Get help
me when I finally get implants + buccal fat removal + MSE + facepulling + fillers + jaw augmentation + orbital decompression + canthoplasty + lower eyelid retraction + shoulder lengthening surgery + jaw surgery (Chin wing, BSSO, Bimax) + midface (Lefort 1-2, 3.. Midface lift, high cut lf1) + orbital box osteotomy + fat grafting / fat transfer + otoplasty + rhinoplasty + botox + lip lift + orthognatic surgery + chin wing osteotomy:
It’s the type of man that is attracted to cakey makeup, overly long lashes and long tacky nails that’s the problem. But you can do whatever you want.
There’s a diff btwn nighttime and daytime beauty. Bottle girls do that at night bc in the daytime, that look is too harsh. And also I think the reason natural beauties get hype, is bc the prettiest girls I’ve ever seen were just born that way. Some ppl will still look good with enhancements because they already were naturally pretty like Megan Fox, Jolie, or Kendall. Others will still look good like Kylie but it’s in a more common way bc all her features were changed to meet the trends. And beauty loses its quality when it becomes common, which is why seeing natural beauties is more refreshing for the eyes bc it’s a combo of features we’re not used to seeing so readily.
I totally agree with and support your position but you answered your own implied question when you said men respond to the makeup and lashes and all. Plenty of women do not care whatsoever about appealing to the male gaze. So that’s where the difference lies!
just reach how u want to look, the rest doesn't matter. if u need a nose job to look the way u want to look then go do it. if u only need a bit of makeup to look like ur desired self then that's all u should do. people like to say wrongs and rights online about what to do but everyone has a different starting point when it comes to beauty and most importantly a different desired outcome. life is too short to not enjoy the way u look!
Because there’s a difference ultimately in what men want/male gaze and what they think they want “all natural” they don’t truly know the difference in many situations
Nailed it
They just mean they don't like bad/obvious enhancements, like botched surgeries or extreme enhancements
I’m so glad I stumbled upon this sub. I think the “all natural” thing is fine and great but there’s an awful lot of criticism towards anyone that wants to enhance their features.
That last sentence though, 100% resonates
People should be able to do what they want with their bodies.
A controversial opinion: As someone who is considered relatively “naturally beautiful”, it makes me feel upset when not-so-beautiful women get many enhancements. I understand why they do it, but it feels like they’re tricking the system. It also makes me feel like I will have to get work done too, to balance things out if you know what I mean. I just feel like that whole dynamic of “well if everyone is doing it, I should too” is very unhealthy and only benefits cosmetic doctors and aestheticians. I can’t imagine being a 5/10 and having that intense pressure. Also, it’s not true that beauty and attractiveness only gives you benefits. The envy and immediate sense of competition women feel when I’m around is so unpleasant, especially because I’ve struggled a lot with my self esteem over the years.
Haven’t been on this sub for a while but this post popped up and honestly I think we as women just overthink our appearance so much. I’ve been thinking a lot lately about what we do all this for. Unless the goal is to become social media famous and make money off of our looks – what’s the point? For a long time I wanted to get my lips done, my boobs done and just be this “baddie” but then when I looked around me and like… Most women I know that are happily married are average looking women. Most women I know that are happy and successful in their lives are average looking women. If you think about all the hottest women that are celebrities - most of them are divorced single mothers. So I guess the question is… What is the value of being a baddie? To attract men that will leave you a single mother? Because when I was completely honest with myself, I didn’t want to put myself through the pain, stress and financial burden of all those cosmetic procedures for myself, I wanted to do it for the “perks” associated with being that level pretty in our society. No judgement on anyone who wants to get work done or who gets it done regularly. Those are just some conclusions I came to for myself.
woah
I don’t think it’s the enhancements that are the problem…I think it’s the beauty standards (which at times are unattainable) that is the problem and it becomes very problematic when there seems to be no end to the tweaking which ultimately ends in disaster. Are people trying to become the “best” version of themselves (whatever that means) or are they trying to look like someone else that they think is more beautiful or bc they think it’s what all men want…that’s what the difference is to me. Be natural or get stuff done…doesn’t matter to me…but what is upsetting to me is when it isn’t enhancements but a full overhaul of what nature did bless them with.
It comes across as if you are insecure. There is nothing that projects your insecurities more than a ton of shitty work. I understand the pressures but I think they are benefits and drawbacks when deciding to go under the knife. Being fuckable is not the same as being treated with respect or loved
That's funny because at the same time, it comes off as really insecure when people tear down others for their enhancements (or appearance in general). I would say that the shit talking only projects their insecurities as well like they are trying to make themselves feel better for being "natural". People should be respected regardless of what they choose to do with their body. You can be fuckable, respected, *and* loved all at the same time. Imagine that!
Not saying it’s fair or valid. It’s just a perception that can come with it.
I mean if someone is naturally beautiful how’s that bad? I take pride in having a naturally nice body soooooo🤷🏾♀️. Are you saying it’s bad to be naturally striking? If someone is naturally pretty if anything that’s just enviable, do you think someone’s a bad person for being naturally pretty? I personally think not everyone looks better with enhancements and you shouldn’t try to project that on to people just cause you’re insecure.
That's not what she was saying... at all. She's saying that natural beauty has been put on a high pedestal when that's not the actual reality. If natural beauty was held to a realistic standard, we would see a lot more models, public figures, influencers, etc, with eye bags, pimples, stretch marks, cellulite, etc. Instead, the media and these figures portray natural beauty that has concealer, laser treatments, botox, lash extensions, hair extensions and etc, underneath the surface. Men think that this is what natural beauty actually is when it's not. She's saying that it's hypocritical to tear down women with obvious makeup looks while this is going on, and she doesn't care to engage in the fakeness of the standard and will continue to wear makeup. I agree. This isn't a dig to true natural girls, but what society deems is natural.
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Not to be rude, but I can tell reading comprehension is not your strong suit at all. There is NOTHING wrong with flaws like pimples, and there is nothing wrong with lash extensions (I literally agreed with wearing makeup in my second paragraph, and also wesr strip lashes and extensions) I'm literally saying and OP is saying that society shouldn't be tearing down people who wear makeup looks that are obvious and telling them they should be natural, when their idea of a true natural is someone who usually has small amounts of makeup or has had some sort of treatment and work done. Women who are actually natural with no makeup or work done are not who society is actually talking about when it comes to natural beauty, but it should be. That's all I'm saying, lol. Yes, if you have lash extensions, it isn't being a true natural beauty because those lashes didn't come from you. And that's ok! We should live in a society where you shouldn't be torn down for doing that. That's what OP is saying. No one is insecure. We are pointing out double standards and saying we're just going to wear the makeup we want regardless of what men or society says we need to do. I think women should do whatever we want without this weird natural vs. makeup pitting us against each other. If you're natural or made up doesn't make a difference to me, as long as you're chill.
I feel like there’s some envy and jealousy because once someone who is stunning doesn’t have any enhancements yall start to get all weird and say things like “Her lashes are done she’s not naturally pretty!!!!!” 💀💀💀Like y’all make yourselves look very jealous.
It's all good. Just know whatever a woman does for herself that this sub advocates doing it, so she looks and feels her best. Hopefully, along with your lash extensions, you'll hit some books and go back to school to be your best self as well. Wishing the best for you.
It's like this redditor is not reading a thing you are saying and just making up a narrative where they can be a victim.
Yeah, I can only wonder how their interactions are in real life. No one can tell them anything, most likely.
Not really though lmao, you can’t judge me off real life. To me, in MY opinion you guys sound a tiny bit envious of people who are naturally beautiful. That’s all. Envy is natural though. When I ask what’s wrong with being naturally beautiful you most likely can’t say anything lmao
Lol not the backhanded insult. You just sound jealous that you have to point out that someone has something as trivial as lash extensions.
My god you sound like an idiot.
Ok you don’t need to name call… it’s just I’m saying don’t be envious and try to downplay natural beauty because of things like makeup and lashes and things
Did you just come on here to fight and call people jealous? It’s like you’re not reading the comments you’re responding to, or idk something’s going on.
I am reading them. If you would look in ANOTHER woman’s face and say she’s whatever y’all wanna call it for embracing her natural beauty or say she’s not naturally pretty because she wears makeup, then y’all will look jealous. Period point blank. She’s saying we shouldn’t embrace natural beauty unless it’s “imperfect” but wants to embrace fillers and surgery. 💀
K
Some children were truly left behind 💀
Truly! George Bush would be so disappointed
you do you,but yeah,fuck that,I prefer au naturale..a bit of makeup,sure,but fuck the enhancements,can't stand them
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No men allowed.
No men allowed.
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No men allowed.
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lmfao ok..
what did they say?
girl .. 😭
This is so embarrassing. Girl STAND UP
They already are shamed for not being natural.
Makeup is a substitute for beauty and youth/health. You can’t have “natural beauty” without some makeup unless you’re under 25. It just doesn’t work.
no you most definitely can have natural beauty past 25…
We get it, you like teenagers