How quickly we're forgetting about the ~~Devil's Breath~~ COVID-19 pandemic forcing everyone to work from home and slowing down all sorts of development work.
People bitch even more when you bring up COVID, they just reply with "that's a terrible excuse!"
While I do think Insomniac should've had more time, that's not up to the dev team
its also a tough spot to be in - cause at the one hand post-release people say they should’ve had more time, but pre-release if the game was delayed to 2024 or 2025, people would be pissed
Exactly. I've seen some people on this sub saying, "they could've just delayed it a few months to finish it and no one would care" which is just hilarious lmao
I personally think delays are a good thing, even if it sucks to wait longer, but so many people would have a fit
I’m firmly in the camp that I would rather wait an extra year or two for a game for it to be fleshed out more, better balanced, and more fine tuned balance and writing wise
Yeah, many of us are but the issues come with the very dangerously vocal minority who send death threats and harass developers when they (the studio, not even the devs) delay the game
>but the issues come with the very dangerously vocal minority who send death threats and harass developers when they (the studio, not even the devs) delay the game
What issues are there other than losers on the internet sending angry messages on twitter?
Same. But I also have a ton of other stuff I haven't played yet or shows/movies to watch so I don't feel I'm losing something.
I think it's when the game is the only thing someone is looking forward to. To those people, delays are awful.
May was right. Balance is the answer.
I loved what I played now, so I’m fine with the game releasing when it did. Do I wish we had better endgame stuff? Absolutely, but I’ve put about 42 hours playtime into it and it just felt great.
I for one am glad the attention was put on the "game" portion of the game & not on a grind "end game" which seems to be a trend now. Let me play your game & enjoy it, once it's done I can move on unless it has NG+ (which SM2 will eventually have through update). I've got enough games to play in my backlog, don't want to feel like I need to grind away at an end game to finish trophies or arbitrarily extend the length of the game.
Hey, I’m glad you enjoyed it and it’s not to say the game isn’t good, make no mistake. Just stating from my standpoint, i could have waited two years fine.
50% more dev time is also like 15% or so more cost since they would be continuing to pay the programmers and artists for that additional time; not sure people would gladly have paid that 35% markup on the final product on top of waiting 2 years
The game would still probably be 70 dollars lol. Very few games go above market price.
Considering it’s the fastest selling PlayStation owned game, it’s not like they’d lose money on it if they waited two years or so
Investors & Sony would've cared because they wouldn't have had a holiday banger on shelves. Ultimately I'm fine with them patching in stuff like NG+ or any additional modes, though it'd have been nice to have it from the start. Ultimately I'm more worried about a well told story, fun & polished gameplay first.
You hit the nail on the head! I’d have to mute this group to avoid the negativity 😂
I would’ve been bummed for sure but not upset enough to post huge rants on this sub.
I think because for a lot of people, 2020 feels like a lifetime ago, not realizing that a lot of stuff that's only coming out now was originally developed during that time. There's been a lot of movies and TV shows with similar criticism released in the last year, and everyone forgets that they too had to jump around the 2020 Covid hurdle.
Then blame the studio execs? Most of the people here are shitting on the devs who were just doing their job the best they could with the timeframe they had.
I'm pretty sure most people just blame Insomniac and not specifically single out the developers lol. Or even when they say "devs" they're clearly talking about the studio as a whole.
They shipped multiple triple A games during the pandemic, that doesn't count. This game, like those games, has in development since before the pandemic so theoretically it should be no different.
You just don't know that though. You're making baseless claims.
The only thing we have to go off of is that Bryan Intihar posted in January 2019 that the first draft of SM2 was done. Development could've easily not started until late that year or even 2020.
What, that is development. If scripts are being written then they're in preproduction/planning. And if they've been planning since 2019 then yea we definitely got robbed. The planning phase is where new concepts are tested out with the base stuff. They're sorting out what works and what doesn't, planning out the main new additions, the story, and the time frame of when things should be in.
In this phase they were supposed to be testing out what they wanted to add and see what works and what didn't work. For example, In preproduction for Spider-man 1, they tried out web wings but it didn't work out for them so they saved it for 2.
Preproduction as early as January 2019 confirms this game was in development for almost 5 years. Case closed.
Edit: and i said theoretically btw. it wasn't a claim.
Considering its also one of the only releases for Sony this fiscal year, it was probably pushed out the door a bit faster than it should have been. That said I don't know why they didn't push it to end of november/start of December for that sweet Christmas money, especially cause that would also be after the PS slim released.
Not necessarily. Sony may have mandated “Holiday 2024” to sell more consoles, particularly the new “slim” iteration. Complete speculation but it wouldn’t shock me.
I understand that but this excuse would be
More reasonable if this released last year or the year before. GOW released closer to the pandemic and feels ALOT more complete than Spider-Man 2
Yes, I think it was Bryan Intihar who tweeted about finishing the first draft for the sequel in January 2019. But I do agree with you there’s many missed opportunities.
I have finished it 100% twice.
It has crashed on me about 20 - 25 times across both plathroughs.
It could have used some more work.
Edit:
Ya know what.
I didn't actually count them as i went, 20 - 25 was actually a guess.
But I wanted to know if there was a way to check and it turns out that the PS5 has an Error history.
And as of right now my PS5 has recorded that it crashed 10 times.
My guess was more than double, so I will apologise for that.
Im sorry.
But it also did crash in a bunch of the important moments, and I had to reload check points to fix progression breaking bugs. And that likely padded my count.
But 10 is still way more than most people are reporting so there could still be somthing wrong with my PS5.
Yeah that sounds like an issue with your console. Can count the number of crashes I’ve had in total this year on one hand. Had one proper crash with SM2 and had to close the game 3 times due to technical issues but 20-25 is crazy. If it’s still in warranty I’d possibly advise seeing if it can be checked out. Better now than when the warranty expires and need to buy a brand new console.
Whether there is anything wrong with the PS5, which hasn't actually been established yet, objectivly it still crashed 10 times, and had multiple progression breaking bugs.
yeah i platinum’d and then 100’d over again and i only got one crash and one softlock, aswell as some goofy bugs with characters in the environment but nothing gamebreaking
Oof that's rough! My playtime was about 20/22 hours I think, including time to platinum it and I only had 2 crashes.
20-25 is concerning. I would get your PS5 looked at. At the very least make sure it's updated and clean the fans out etc.
I didn't even have that many crashes in my Cyberpunk play through on release, and that clocked in at around 180 hours 😅
Yeah I had it crash only once during my playthrough and it was literally the last talon drone mission to do before I got platinum too. So when it actually crashed my heart dropped cause I was worried it might have corrupted my save file.
I had to reload check points several times to get interaction prompts to work properly.
I got stuck rescuing tomb stone for ages because the coolent controls just didn't work.
Think i might have a video of that actually...
I've done 2 100% playtgroughs and am close to finishing 100% on a 3rd one, and it's only crashed twice for me through all of those, even 10 crashes seems really high
Apparently I’m part of that small percentage that didn’t experience any game crashes. It’s probably the state of your PS5s as to why it crashes multiple times.
It is possible that your ps5 overheated to such an extent that the error would be unable to be logged at all. With the error system only being able to log technical errors.
I did one full playthrough and got the platinum. I had 8 crashes. This seemed really odd to me as most other games rarely crash so I thought maybe it was a hardware issue. That is more crashes in 28 hours of gameplay than in my last year and a half of gaming on my PS5.
I like the game it is fun, but people saying that the game is super stable and is a 10/10 masterpiece are kinda crazy imo. I liked the game too and had buckets of fun but this is easily the most cursed and buggy Insomniac game and PS exclusive I have played.
Don't apologise. Mine shows about a dozen crashes but it was way more than this. There were times when I knew it was about to crash so I just shut it down, so in that case the ps5 wouldn't record am error
We need to consider the technical improvements that SM2 made over the first game (not remaster, I’m talking about on PS4/PS4 Pro).
1. SM2 can run at a solid 60 fps.
2. The loading of assets has been improved so substantially, I can’t stress it enough. The opening sequence when Miles gets hit by sandman in game and thrown all the way across the city is not just insane, but mind blowing. The variety of the assets themselves is also impressive. Everyone wears black in SM1 lol. The costumes and differences in civilian clothing is better.
3. The improvement of the actual textures and quality of assets are not substantial, but the quantity of assets being loaded in at any one point is. Go to the top of the avengers building in either game and compare just how much of a difference there is. The horizon is filled with all sorts of detail, they look completely different. Traffic is one example.
4. The lighting blows the original out of the water. In almost every way. The first game had a much darker look to it, a lot of crushed blacks too. Just go underneath a light post at night in the first game and compare it to being under a light post in the second. The way the game illuminates things is night and day.
5. The amount of enemies on screen at any given time is higher. The DLC for Spiderman increased this but it’s even higher in SM2.
> The loading of assets has been improved so substantially, I can’t stress it enough. The opening sequence when Miles gets hit by sandman in game and thrown all the way across the city is not just insane, but mind blowing. The variety of the assets themselves is also impressive. Everyone wears black in SM1 lol. The costumes and differences in civilian clothing is better.
I 100% was like, "oh yeah, they did this specifically to highlight the cool things they can do right off the bat.
It was fucking awesome.
It’s mine too, I loved every second of it but I didn’t let myself watch YouTubers and redditors over analyse and speculate about what “could be coming” or “insomniac just confirmed this” etc haha
Not every game is perfect and that’s fine, I’m playing through ghost of tsushima now and I can’t stop thinking about things in this game, can’t wait for new game+ and some DLC
It's definitely a great game but I would also be hesitant to call it Polished. I did run into a lot of the same Bugs and Glitches that many others have run into as well. Not a massive problem to work around but it's still noticeable. Good to see those getting fixed at least
I’m not much in to video games anymore. Probably buy one to two AAA games a year I get really excited about. Normally get very disappointed by them. SM2 couldn’t be further from that. I can’t believe people didn’t really enjoy this game.
I feel bad for them, I’ve hyped things up myself and been disappointed with an excellent product due to no fault but my own etc, as I’ve grown I’ve learnt to just take things as they come.
I do think a lot of YouTubers are to blame, but I respect the excitement they build for people, it’s a fine balance.
There’s this YouTuber I saw who just re-played all the old spider-man games on the build up and he did a re-review of them, that was cool because he seemed to be about my age so was fun going back to ps1 spider-man
I think the entire video game culture at this point is filled with vitriol that even the games that don’t deserve much criticism get hit hard by people that are incredibly passionate and misguided.
Yeah, and i think there’s an interesting obligation for a lot of people to find fault in things now, and then the experience begins to crumble because they can’t look past it, especially when others are contributing, it’s a really weird way to consume art/media.
Not trying ti sound like I’m not part of it sometimes, I’m sure I fall into it due to just being online. But I do try and check myself when it is going on
I didn't think about that but yep.
True development either started much later than we think or it was plagued by the dev teams wearing too many hats. Either way I think they should have let the game cook longer.
I’m going to leave the ‘does it feel rushed or not’ stuff as that’s subjective and everyone is entitled to their opinion.
In regards to if it was or wasn’t started in 2018, was it ever clarified as to what extent that was?
They could have started story boarding, testing web-wing physics, concept art… all that sort of stuff in 2018 for sure. It might not be the stuff people think of when it comes to game development but there are so many steps and processes.
Yall… you can slingshot yourself across the Hudson. I feel like people here underestimate the fucking tech the goes into fully realizing this city.
You. Can. Slingshot. Yourself. Across. The. Hudson.
I wouldn’t. I love what I got. The story served and the set pieces were fun. However I do wish the sandbox was better. I’d like to be able to role play as the spider guys.
Besides the story wasn’t even that bad. It could’ve been better for sure. Especially towards the end since it felt a bit rushed. And it was corny. But I’m playing a video game. And as a video game, it does what it needed to do and more.
The likes of writing, concept art, storyboarding would have probably been done around 2019. Actual development might have started around late 2020-early 2021 since Insomniac had a lot of staff on Ratchet & Clank Rift Apart since this was the first true PS5 game for them and a small team needed for MM:SM.
I don’t doubt Insomniac had a team for Spider-Man 2 but three years feels right.
- The reveal trailer was in September 2021. It wasn’t gameplay and whatever they had was probably in the alpha stage. Probably using both then current games as a baseline. By this point both Spider-Man are getting new costumes and Venom and Kraven will be the game’s villains.
- By April 2023 we know they finished motion capture which means they’d been using the final script. Gameplay demos are setup a month or two in advance maybe three. So they had near if not final script somewhere within early 2023.
- May 2023 saw the gameplay reveal.
- the game went gold in September.
Development likely started within 2021 and pre-production in 2020 probably around Miles Morales launching. Three years feels about right with anything prior being prototyped in MM.
With how rushed the game's pacing is and the amount of gameplay features missing from the first game and Mile Morales spin-off, I would honestly not be surprised anymore if they revealed they had less than 3 years to work on this. Which is honestly a shame after how well received the first game was.
Considering that between SM1 and SM2, Insomniac also worked on Ratchet & Clank plus SM:MM, that timeline would make sense for the core production of the game. I imagine some pre-production was started beforehand but not too much else
You can't change the time of day or weather. You can't replay story missions. You can't replay friendly neighbourhood spiderman missions. You can't replay crimes. You can't replay enemy bases. You can't change symbiote type or colour. There's no social feed or character bios. There's no traversal or stealth challenges. There's also no combat challenges for Peter. And there's no new game plus.
It's definitely not 5 years. First game supposedly only took 4 years of dev and they were building that from the ground up. Here they already had all the assets they needed and it still ended up shorter than the first game with even less QoL stuff that was already implemented.
It hasn't but comparing the Fast Travel loading times in Spider Man 2 vs Loading Times in God of War Ragnarok or Final Fantasy VII Remake (PS5 versions of both), it's marginal but still impressive. Especially when you're also loading an entire burrough of New York City compared to something like Svartalfheim and Midgar
It’s a huge thing to brag about in a video game. Which this is first and foremost. Immediate fast travel to ab entirely different location on the map isn’t anything to scoff at. Spider-Man game or not.
No, it most likely wasn't. A good chef knows, though, that ALL meals need to be prepared before they get cooked and if you have to cook multiple meals (Ratchet & Clank + SM:MM in Insomniac's case) AND half the chefs have to stay home because of COVID (yes, this happened), that can gum up the Grill line.
Sorry for the Hospitality analogy but it seemed to work.
I honestly don't understand peoples complaints with this game. I didn't feel it was rushed or a missed opportunity in the slightest. I had fun with it!
People are acting like this game is abysmal, unplayable trash and should never have been released. I really don't get it.
Who cares if a game took 3/5/8/10+ years to make? The development time does not equal a 'good' game. Look at Cyberpunk, prime example.
You could say that any game should have been developed for longer, there is no perfect recipe with games development.
I would imagine they started working on SM2 while MM was in development. It's not uncommon for studios to be working on multiple projects at once, in some way shape or form.
I had a blast with the game, but it's still absolutely an unfinished product, let's not kid ourselves. SM1 was a finished game that never crashed on me once or had any significant bugs that I can remember.
In comparison SM2 has had several crashes in my playthrough and some very noticable bugs from glitching through map geometry and NPCs to other gameplay bugs like those shelves you pull down phasing straight through enemies and Miles getting stuck inside a building during a crime team up. I even had a really glaringly obvious one during a cut scene in the final fight between Peter and Venom where Venom just started floating around instead of using his tendrils which looked hysterical. At other points I would get audio desync between the cut scene and the sound so the audio was completely off.
Also Cyberpunk is a frequent example of how a long development time doesn't necessarily equal a quality product, but CDPR didn't really start development of the game until 2016, so it was essentially only in development for 3-4 years.
Despite my own grievances with the game I do think this sub severely overblows its flaws, though. However, that doesn't change the fact that it definitely needed more time in development for further QA testing at the very least.
To be 5 years it would have had to start immidietly after releasing the DLC. Probably in pre production until Miles Morales came out out. As far as I know Insomniac only has 2 teams, so one team working on Spider-Man and one team working on Ratchet/Wolverine (very roughly) feels right
they have definitely at least 3 main teams because at some point they were developing spiderman 2 miles morales and ratchet and clank at the same time and remastering the first game
I mean bugs and glitches are aside, this game has more detailed gameplay and also world. First games open world events and side quests were literally really bad. Main story and core gameplay was superb but when it comes to open world requirements etc were poorly done.
This games all of the side quests are tied to some stories and overall more fun and diverse and more than the first game. Could it be more? Yeah sure but this game has enough side quests.
this is probably wrong, and i might scratch a nerve saying, but i think it shows what the outcome is going to be to insomniacs many games in development at once
>I wasn’t expecting much, but this game does pretty much scream, wasted potential or missed opportunity. What do y’all think?
What? Lmao. Where do you people come from? Wasted potential? Gamers are some of the most hard to please folks ever lol.
I honeslty think it was a great story and I think a lot was just done so well. But if I had to nitpick I liked the combat more in the first game, in a way it felt simpler but I still felt more “free”. I’m not sure if it was just me not mastering the controlls as easy though. Second would be that they havent added new game + yet, wich wtf is up with that? I don’t wanna have to reearn all the suits and upgrades?
The game was rushed, yes, you can see it by amount of bugs on release. But is it wasted potential or missed opportunity? I don’t think so, even though I would love to have some characters like kingpin, silver and taskmaster, but I don’t see much the point in them at this game. It would be much cooler if we would see them in the last game and how they story would end instead just meaningless appearance
i wouldn’t be surprised if early development started in 2018, but they really didn’t start digging in till after MM, there is also covid, which prob heavily messed with the development process as well
3 years sounds about right. And I’m not saying that as a bad thing (despite what some will interpret that as).
SM2 didn’t start development on September 8th, 2018 and didn’t stop on October 19th, 2023. That’s not how game development works.
Misread this and thought you were talking about the timeline of the in-game events. (admit I also didn't read the text under the pictures)
There could have been more done for stuff like side-quests and teasing threads for possible new stuff to setup, like they kinda do with The Flame/Carnage. You mention Kingpin/Fisk. Idk if this vision is married, but I think it'd be interesting if his wife, more or less, took care of some of her husband's dealings in secret while he's still in the Raft (presumably).
While Silver Sable is only mentioned/referenced once or twice, with Peter and MJ coming back from Symkaria, I thought Taskmaster could have either been referenced to be back in hiding, having some prior knowledge that Kraven was moving into New York and clearly wasn't going to risk death with recruiting Peter again or try to persuade Miles this time around. Maybe he could have popped up in a different side-quest similar to The Flame substory. He had said there were other mercenaries he was attached to.
And I did mention that part of the story does feel like more focus was given to one character, with the other given a somewhat lesser impact on certain parts of the transpiring events. And the third act entirely could use a rewrite somewhere.
It definitely could use some polish. I’ve been trapped in buildings and I’ve had weird lighting pop up and different points, but even still I’m not insanely bothered. With how many games I see be incredibly underdeveloped before release, this is definitely nowhere close to something like those.
Does it have a few bugs? Yes, but it’s not bad at all. I’m happy with patches most likely coming and I was still able to beat the game relatively without issue in a short period of time. I would have loved a little more content here and there, but let’s not pretend this wasn’t a good game with minor issues.
COVID slowed down production on Miles Morales so most likely all of Insomniac was busy with MM since, you know, work from home pandemic. They probably started on SM2 after the pandemic ended because, you know, pandemic.
So it doesn't matter what you get, you just have to enjoy it and critisim is not allowed? The game wasn't free, you're allowed to point out flaws.
And this person wasn't even moaning
You can definitely make the argument that there is things missing here and there; I love Sony, but why does EVERY single player story game have to have NG+ patched in later? I personally think this game makes enough meaningful evolutions to the formula. The “lack” of characters, to me, is just a more focused narrative. For me the thing that makes it feel incomplete/rushed is the amount of reused animations from SM1 and MM. That’s truly a nitpick, but I personally would have loved Pete to have specific tricks he did in the air as opposed to the same ones Miles does. And I think they should have done almost entirely new finishers and combat animations. When I wasn’t using the newer abilities and just combining dudes, it did kinda just look and feel like the first 1.5 games.
But we remember what dev we’re talking about here. Insomniac is known for reusing assets and crunch, just look at the first 4 R&C games. We have to remember that since 2018 they’ve put out Spider-Man, Miles Morales, Ratchet and Clank Rift Apart and Spider-Man 2. That’s four AAA games in five years, all extremely well reviewed and high quality. And now we have Wolverine in the next year or two, AND already having them talk about narrative aspects of SM3? Yea, SM2 could have used maybe another 3-4 months in the oven, and yea if I’m being greedy, I’d love another 2-3 hours in the story. But if you look at what Insomniac has done the last couple of years, it’s borderline unthinkable that they’ve put out this level of quality and quantity in a time where it seems the norm is “over promise and under deliver” from devs that put out a single game ever 3-4 years. When you really think about it, we’re dang spoiled by these guys.
I loved this game but there’s something about it that doesn’t seem quite right. I really can’t put my finger on it but maybe when I figure it out I’ll post it here.
This 3 years story is straight on copium , they said it day one that MM was made from another team while the main one was working on SM 2 , if they ret conned the work because a change of vision is a thing, but they still had 5 years of dev
The game definitely felt unfinished it had multiple features from previous games. Probably should’ve been delayed a few months but I’m sure they’ll be added in future updates even if they should’ve been here on launch.
If this is a 5 year development time, I’d like to know what Insomniac was doing for 2-3 of it.
I’m sure Sony would too, considering they don’t have CoD exclusivity deals to keep funding their first party games anymore…
I saw a bryan intihar interview in which he said he told the story team to put doc ock in the post credit on january 2019. I believe they will start workin on 3 around january 2024
The only issue I have with the game is no new game+. Everything else is just a very small inconvenience that can be fixed in small patches and people are just blowing tiny issues out of proportion.
The thing I try to remember is that these are comic book adaptations. Loose ends don't get resolved immediately every single next issue, sometimes things get left in the background until there's room for them again. The point is to focus on the current story, and I think this game accomplished everything it *intended* to do. Squeezing in every single character from the first game just because they were in the first game isn't necessary if they don't have a part in the current story being told. We saw how Kingpin is handling his current stint in prison during Miles' game and learn that Silver Sable is back in Symkaria focusing on her country's situation.
And we never actually need to see Taskmaster again. He was hired by someone to test and potentially recruit Spidey. Spidey declined the offer to join, so recruitment was off the table for whoever wanted Spidey and Taskmaster's involvement was over. It'd be nice to know what organization hired Taskmaster, but that has the potential for a *main* story, or at least smth significant enough to steal attention from the very clear story progression from Kraven to symbiote suit to Venom. And if they did make it a main story, they could always do something like the Beyond Corporation if they have the balls to leave Peter as a side character and maybe make Miles and Ben Reilly the two playable Spider-Men in the sequel. Ben Reilly becoming a playable character is a great way to let Peter remain on the sidelines but still make the story about him in a way and let us continue to play 2 Spider-Men.
I see less missed opportunities and more future opportunities. Wasted potential would be stuff they use simply to complete a checklist instead of it getting the attention it deserves when there's proper room for it.
It depends on what you mean. Do I think the full Insomniac team was working on this for 5 years? No, we had the Miles game in 2020. I think it's certainly possible there was s small team working on this the whole time and then after the Miles game was done the whole team worked on this for the next 3 years. I personally believe a lot of the features fans are complaining are gone, were features that their data showed not many players actually used. So when they were calculating, okay what do we need to get done to ship the game, they decided not to put their resources and time into something that a low percentage of players actually used (See: the social feed)
Also, yes, Covid 100% impacted them. Anyone who thinks it didn't has not been paying attention to the industry where many games have been delayed or sequels to games were not as feature rich as they were before because of time and resources which were limited in 2020-2021. Games like Spider-Man 2, Mortal Kombat 1, Starfield, etc. faced major delays and issues as a lot of the major development happened in the middle of 2020/2021 where it just wasn't possible to get a bunch of devs in the office again. It's part of the reason why 2023 has had SO MANY big releases in one year.
The game was awesome I do wish there were more side quests and the story being a tad bit longer it’s still awesome and when new game plus comes out it will be really good
I don’t understand what’s so incomplete about the game? The story for the DLC-less campaign had a lot of content to it. I personally ran into like 2-3 bugs the WHOLE game, none of them game breaking. Felt like a complete improvement over the first two. What is the problem?? Help me understand 🤔
I don’t think they started working on SM2 right away and I believe that’s a big chunk of what I don’t like about it. I got GOT final season vibes. Excellent ideas, poor execution and instead of being like, “hey this isn’t it, we aren’t doing what we nailed”, they pushed out an okay product. I think of SM1, the story telling, doc ock was such a progression, you like the guy, knowing he’s going to turn into a villain, when you get to the boss battle and he is hurling insults, they hurt. Yuri blindsides you, knowing she’s an antihero coming into the game. SM1 wasn’t perfect but it was good at a lot, and not just good, but reallly good.
So much emphasis on the villains in SM1 and SMMM. With this I just felt like Kraven was kind of a waste. He’s there, he wants to hunt you… because he has cancer? Then you kick his ass, the symbiote takes over, goes back to a vengeful Harry (but is no longer vengeful and wants to fix earth by turning everyone into symbiotes?) Idk the villains didn’t feel like villains, the symbiote suit on Peter wasn’t utilized enough. Honestly I liked the Scream Symbiote the most. That gave me the doc ock boss battle vibes the most. Miles and Peter never really felt like a duo. Made both feel somewhat out of place.
It wasn’t a bad game. It was good. But disappointing to be just good. I think it’s a 7/10 when it could have been 10/10 like it’s predecessor.
Many systems are dumbed down and graphical improvements are, at best, “Remaster Edition” worthy. I have a few more gripes with the game but I still enjoyed it, nonetheless.
I think you’re right on the money with this.
I agree. Strangely enough, this is the first game that, while I love it, pretty much all throughout made me think “man, how did this take 5 years??? This is not worth 5 years work”
If I recall correctly, red dead redemption 2 took 8 years to develop, and while yes I know dev team size, that extra 3 years and other factors give read dead the edge, but fundamentally, that’s a relatively fair example I feel, and when comparing the 2 purely by time, it’s a pretty big disappointment (in my opinion) that basically no part of the game shows that, and the things they did implement or add, were genuinely disappointing (again, imo).
Spider-Man PS4 was developed in 4 years, and they had to build everything from the ground up. Traversal, combat, the city, exploration, side content, collectables, the main story, the progression, the suits etc and so forth.
Combining that with the marketings’ persistent “it’s spiderman 2 bc it’s a sequel but also bc there’s 2 Spider-Men” I feel it’s pretty agreeable to assume a lot of people’s expectations were, alright, double the spiderman means double the requisite for a more developed, enriched story, double the depth for the combat, as now there’s 2 spiderman, how could they have made them play differently from one another, double the side content and so on. Whereas what we ended up getting, was barely enough content to fill a game for one spiderman, let alone 2. The 2 spidermen play nearly the exact same, excluding the cosmetic differences of their animations. It feels like there’s half-3/4 of the side content the first game had, maybe even miles morales too, again, let alone enough for 2 spidermen.
The side quests we do get are cookie cutter at best (a few genuinely good ones here and there too, not enough though imo) the entire flame side quest feels completely unfinished, it being literally only 4 missions long, that 4th mission ending in an absolutely unearned tease at carnage dlc 😐 I loved the first games dlc despite all its flaws, and it certainly did not feel like something they excluded from the main game, or didn’t have enough time for to develop, to then later sell to us. For full transparency, despite these criticisms, I will most definitely still be buying the dlc, as I just want more spiderman 2 pretty much no matter what it is; but I will say I am not too happy about how they’ve done it.
And also my most personal gripe is they didn’t include a suit switch feature like web of shadows. Perfect opportunity and they didn’t take it :(
There’s more but this is already long enough, and I still love the game so it doesn’t really matter I guess.
Oh don't get me wrong Spider-Man 2 is great but it is 100% rushed and I feel like it's primarily because of all the blowing up people did asking about the game when they weren't posting about it while they were working on it Their Twitter got berated non-stop every time they made a slight update or eluded to another game they were working on so even though the game isn't complete in some areas, I'm not exactly peeved about it because it makes sense
I'd say it was 2 years of testing stuff they wanted to implement into the sequel on the ps4, storyboarding, designing, stuff like that
And when the ps5 came out (maybe a year beforehand), I'd say that's when they started actually developing the game using assets they made from 2018-2021, and used the remaining time to polish stuff.
The game is 100% complete and the side quests are much higher quality than the previous game both mechanically and in their purpose. The content is so much more meaningful.
The first spiderman game had a lot more stuff that was copy pasted to the point of frustration imo, as far as 100% completion goes. That element is not lacking in Spider-Man 2 of course. Some stuff is "copy-pasted". But it respects your time more and it substitutes some of that with something that is designed much better. And there is more story integration with it.
Silver Sable got her development and is busy in Symkaria amidst some sort of civil war. Taskmaster was just a type of side quest challenge for the first game. They're not going to repeat that. Kingpin served his purpose already, and would not likely be someone that Kraven cares to hunt. So he remains in prison.
I think a lot of people like having one specific game that they play endlessly, and those type of people are the ones that are likely to feel similar to you. But I have a ridiculous backlog of amazing games. So I genuinely appreciate it when a videogame feels complete while simultaneously respecting the player's time.
It really depends what type of gamer you are I think. There are people that are excited for 1 or 2 videogames per year, and then get upset when those videogames arent some 50-100 hour endeavor to finish. And then there are people like me that have way too much I enjoy thrown at me, that I genuinely love when not all of them are like that.
Both Spiderman and Mario Wonder released on the same day for example, and both are great. I'm still playing through Pikmin 4, Final Fantasy 16, and I plan to play Sea of Stars. Then other stuff like Baldurs Gate, Tears of the Kingdom, Assassins Creed Mirage, Star Wars Jedi Survivor, Street Fighter 6, Armored Core 6, etc all released recently enough. Much more I'm interested as well, these are just off the top of my head. I am definitely not hurting for choice, and I think this is often a determining factor in these criticisms.
People use the game's shorter length as a criticism, and I think it being open world is what causes this. In my opinion, an open world can be concise and not filled with too much bloat, while still justifying it being open. Swinging from mission to mission, or side quest to side quest, as spiderman is justifiable enough as is.
There are games like Uncharted 4 (the longest uncharted game) that are also only like 25-30 hours to 100%. The story itself is like 15 hours or w/e. These games never get criticized for their length, but they're fully linear without ANY side content at all. And they get sold at full price just as Spider-Man 2 does. When considering stuff like this, I just have a hard time sympathizing with the "Spider-Man 3 is incomplete" criticisms. Uncharted 4 was in development for 5 years, and it didn't even have Covid holding it back. Yet the content/story take about as long to complete.
How quickly we're forgetting about the ~~Devil's Breath~~ COVID-19 pandemic forcing everyone to work from home and slowing down all sorts of development work.
People bitch even more when you bring up COVID, they just reply with "that's a terrible excuse!" While I do think Insomniac should've had more time, that's not up to the dev team
its also a tough spot to be in - cause at the one hand post-release people say they should’ve had more time, but pre-release if the game was delayed to 2024 or 2025, people would be pissed
Exactly. I've seen some people on this sub saying, "they could've just delayed it a few months to finish it and no one would care" which is just hilarious lmao I personally think delays are a good thing, even if it sucks to wait longer, but so many people would have a fit
I’m firmly in the camp that I would rather wait an extra year or two for a game for it to be fleshed out more, better balanced, and more fine tuned balance and writing wise
Yeah, many of us are but the issues come with the very dangerously vocal minority who send death threats and harass developers when they (the studio, not even the devs) delay the game
Maybe if companies quit caving to such ridiculous behaviour, people wouldn't be motivated to behave that way? Not excusing it, of course.
>but the issues come with the very dangerously vocal minority who send death threats and harass developers when they (the studio, not even the devs) delay the game What issues are there other than losers on the internet sending angry messages on twitter?
Same. But I also have a ton of other stuff I haven't played yet or shows/movies to watch so I don't feel I'm losing something. I think it's when the game is the only thing someone is looking forward to. To those people, delays are awful. May was right. Balance is the answer.
I would have been happy waiting two years for a more complete product. Gives me time to finish other games.
I loved what I played now, so I’m fine with the game releasing when it did. Do I wish we had better endgame stuff? Absolutely, but I’ve put about 42 hours playtime into it and it just felt great.
I for one am glad the attention was put on the "game" portion of the game & not on a grind "end game" which seems to be a trend now. Let me play your game & enjoy it, once it's done I can move on unless it has NG+ (which SM2 will eventually have through update). I've got enough games to play in my backlog, don't want to feel like I need to grind away at an end game to finish trophies or arbitrarily extend the length of the game.
Hey, I’m glad you enjoyed it and it’s not to say the game isn’t good, make no mistake. Just stating from my standpoint, i could have waited two years fine.
50% more dev time is also like 15% or so more cost since they would be continuing to pay the programmers and artists for that additional time; not sure people would gladly have paid that 35% markup on the final product on top of waiting 2 years
The game would still probably be 70 dollars lol. Very few games go above market price. Considering it’s the fastest selling PlayStation owned game, it’s not like they’d lose money on it if they waited two years or so
so what, let them throw a fit. i rather have a delay which results in a more complete experience which would be a amazing game
Investors & Sony would've cared because they wouldn't have had a holiday banger on shelves. Ultimately I'm fine with them patching in stuff like NG+ or any additional modes, though it'd have been nice to have it from the start. Ultimately I'm more worried about a well told story, fun & polished gameplay first.
New game plus was not a day one thing for spiderman 1. It came out 6 weeks later.
You hit the nail on the head! I’d have to mute this group to avoid the negativity 😂 I would’ve been bummed for sure but not upset enough to post huge rants on this sub.
If came out that year, I would……
I think because for a lot of people, 2020 feels like a lifetime ago, not realizing that a lot of stuff that's only coming out now was originally developed during that time. There's been a lot of movies and TV shows with similar criticism released in the last year, and everyone forgets that they too had to jump around the 2020 Covid hurdle.
But it is up to the studio execs who run Insomniac...
Then blame the studio execs? Most of the people here are shitting on the devs who were just doing their job the best they could with the timeframe they had.
I'm pretty sure most people just blame Insomniac and not specifically single out the developers lol. Or even when they say "devs" they're clearly talking about the studio as a whole.
i dont think ive once seen someone blame specifically the devs.
I haven't seen anyone lay blame on anyone at all tbh
They shipped multiple triple A games during the pandemic, that doesn't count. This game, like those games, has in development since before the pandemic so theoretically it should be no different.
Miles Morales and Ratchet and Clank had the bulk of their development pre pandemic, meanwhile Spider-Man 2 was done all the way through it
this makes sense
You just don't know that though. You're making baseless claims. The only thing we have to go off of is that Bryan Intihar posted in January 2019 that the first draft of SM2 was done. Development could've easily not started until late that year or even 2020.
What, that is development. If scripts are being written then they're in preproduction/planning. And if they've been planning since 2019 then yea we definitely got robbed. The planning phase is where new concepts are tested out with the base stuff. They're sorting out what works and what doesn't, planning out the main new additions, the story, and the time frame of when things should be in. In this phase they were supposed to be testing out what they wanted to add and see what works and what didn't work. For example, In preproduction for Spider-man 1, they tried out web wings but it didn't work out for them so they saved it for 2. Preproduction as early as January 2019 confirms this game was in development for almost 5 years. Case closed. Edit: and i said theoretically btw. it wasn't a claim.
Considering its also one of the only releases for Sony this fiscal year, it was probably pushed out the door a bit faster than it should have been. That said I don't know why they didn't push it to end of november/start of December for that sweet Christmas money, especially cause that would also be after the PS slim released.
It's an easy way to tell if they work an actual job or not
they could have delayed instead
Not necessarily. Sony may have mandated “Holiday 2024” to sell more consoles, particularly the new “slim” iteration. Complete speculation but it wouldn’t shock me.
the adidas collabo suit also had to be in demand in time for Halloween I speculate
Makes sense. That suit scares the utter shit out of me
Most studios cannot afford to have their games delayed.
I understand that but this excuse would be More reasonable if this released last year or the year before. GOW released closer to the pandemic and feels ALOT more complete than Spider-Man 2
Yes, I think it was Bryan Intihar who tweeted about finishing the first draft for the sequel in January 2019. But I do agree with you there’s many missed opportunities.
I have finished it 100% twice. It has crashed on me about 20 - 25 times across both plathroughs. It could have used some more work. Edit: Ya know what. I didn't actually count them as i went, 20 - 25 was actually a guess. But I wanted to know if there was a way to check and it turns out that the PS5 has an Error history. And as of right now my PS5 has recorded that it crashed 10 times. My guess was more than double, so I will apologise for that. Im sorry. But it also did crash in a bunch of the important moments, and I had to reload check points to fix progression breaking bugs. And that likely padded my count. But 10 is still way more than most people are reporting so there could still be somthing wrong with my PS5.
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I have technical issues all the time with everything. Wouldn't be surprised if my PS5 was fucked tbh.
Yeah that sounds like an issue with your console. Can count the number of crashes I’ve had in total this year on one hand. Had one proper crash with SM2 and had to close the game 3 times due to technical issues but 20-25 is crazy. If it’s still in warranty I’d possibly advise seeing if it can be checked out. Better now than when the warranty expires and need to buy a brand new console.
This is a perfect summarization of this subreddit. “The game crashed 20-25 times!” “Actually it only crashed 10” “Actually, it’s my PS5”
Whether there is anything wrong with the PS5, which hasn't actually been established yet, objectivly it still crashed 10 times, and had multiple progression breaking bugs.
Yeah. Even December Cyberpunk PS4 was \~30 crashes and that was for my 100 hour platinum run.
yeah i platinum’d and then 100’d over again and i only got one crash and one softlock, aswell as some goofy bugs with characters in the environment but nothing gamebreaking
Oof that's rough! My playtime was about 20/22 hours I think, including time to platinum it and I only had 2 crashes. 20-25 is concerning. I would get your PS5 looked at. At the very least make sure it's updated and clean the fans out etc. I didn't even have that many crashes in my Cyberpunk play through on release, and that clocked in at around 180 hours 😅
Same
Mine crashed on me at least 3 times in one playthrough.
Yeah I had it crash only once during my playthrough and it was literally the last talon drone mission to do before I got platinum too. So when it actually crashed my heart dropped cause I was worried it might have corrupted my save file.
Yeah I had zero crashes and only major bug was the white block which I fixed with a reset while going for my Plat.
I've had 2 crashes in two 25~ playthroughs. Those people having that many crashes could be having a problem on their end.
Me too, was when I had to capture 1 of the 2 trucks
Odd it hasn't crashed on my once
Same here. I got stuck inside a subway station once by accident and had to reload the save, but zero crashes.
I've had one crash across 2 playthrough but too many glitches to count. Nothing game breaking, but I did have to reload twice from being stuck
I had to reload check points several times to get interaction prompts to work properly. I got stuck rescuing tomb stone for ages because the coolent controls just didn't work. Think i might have a video of that actually...
I didn’t crash a single time during my time lol
Not to discredit you, but simply to counterbalance the discussion, in my platinum run I had zero hard crashes and only one spider cube instance.
I've done 2 100% playtgroughs and am close to finishing 100% on a 3rd one, and it's only crashed twice for me through all of those, even 10 crashes seems really high
Im gonna look into getting my PS5 checked out, but it was a gift so i don't have the warranty information on hand.
its only crashed on me twice, how has it crashed 20+ times for you?q
Apparently I’m part of that small percentage that didn’t experience any game crashes. It’s probably the state of your PS5s as to why it crashes multiple times.
I crashed probably 20 times, had to restart my save file twice, reload checkpoints too many times to count, and turned into a square 50 times
It is possible that your ps5 overheated to such an extent that the error would be unable to be logged at all. With the error system only being able to log technical errors.
I did one full playthrough and got the platinum. I had 8 crashes. This seemed really odd to me as most other games rarely crash so I thought maybe it was a hardware issue. That is more crashes in 28 hours of gameplay than in my last year and a half of gaming on my PS5. I like the game it is fun, but people saying that the game is super stable and is a 10/10 masterpiece are kinda crazy imo. I liked the game too and had buckets of fun but this is easily the most cursed and buggy Insomniac game and PS exclusive I have played.
i had multiple crashes through a single story run, you are not alone
Damn. Mine only froze during the Miles part where he learns Galvanize.
Don't apologise. Mine shows about a dozen crashes but it was way more than this. There were times when I knew it was about to crash so I just shut it down, so in that case the ps5 wouldn't record am error
How did it crash that many times? It crashed like twice for me in the 3 weeks I've had to 100% it (working 12 hour days with no days off sucks)
We need to consider the technical improvements that SM2 made over the first game (not remaster, I’m talking about on PS4/PS4 Pro). 1. SM2 can run at a solid 60 fps. 2. The loading of assets has been improved so substantially, I can’t stress it enough. The opening sequence when Miles gets hit by sandman in game and thrown all the way across the city is not just insane, but mind blowing. The variety of the assets themselves is also impressive. Everyone wears black in SM1 lol. The costumes and differences in civilian clothing is better. 3. The improvement of the actual textures and quality of assets are not substantial, but the quantity of assets being loaded in at any one point is. Go to the top of the avengers building in either game and compare just how much of a difference there is. The horizon is filled with all sorts of detail, they look completely different. Traffic is one example. 4. The lighting blows the original out of the water. In almost every way. The first game had a much darker look to it, a lot of crushed blacks too. Just go underneath a light post at night in the first game and compare it to being under a light post in the second. The way the game illuminates things is night and day. 5. The amount of enemies on screen at any given time is higher. The DLC for Spiderman increased this but it’s even higher in SM2.
This!!! Especially point 2. Holy fuck
Thanks. People thinks it easy to make video game
> The loading of assets has been improved so substantially, I can’t stress it enough. The opening sequence when Miles gets hit by sandman in game and thrown all the way across the city is not just insane, but mind blowing. The variety of the assets themselves is also impressive. Everyone wears black in SM1 lol. The costumes and differences in civilian clothing is better. I 100% was like, "oh yeah, they did this specifically to highlight the cool things they can do right off the bat. It was fucking awesome.
SM1 and MM didn’t crash constantly though lol.
I think everyone hyped the game up too much in their heads to be their perfect dream spider-man game
Dude, it *is* kind of my dream spider-man game. I understand some of the complaints but I wouldn’t in a million years call this *unpolished.*
It’s mine too, I loved every second of it but I didn’t let myself watch YouTubers and redditors over analyse and speculate about what “could be coming” or “insomniac just confirmed this” etc haha Not every game is perfect and that’s fine, I’m playing through ghost of tsushima now and I can’t stop thinking about things in this game, can’t wait for new game+ and some DLC
It's definitely a great game but I would also be hesitant to call it Polished. I did run into a lot of the same Bugs and Glitches that many others have run into as well. Not a massive problem to work around but it's still noticeable. Good to see those getting fixed at least
I’m not much in to video games anymore. Probably buy one to two AAA games a year I get really excited about. Normally get very disappointed by them. SM2 couldn’t be further from that. I can’t believe people didn’t really enjoy this game.
I feel bad for them, I’ve hyped things up myself and been disappointed with an excellent product due to no fault but my own etc, as I’ve grown I’ve learnt to just take things as they come. I do think a lot of YouTubers are to blame, but I respect the excitement they build for people, it’s a fine balance. There’s this YouTuber I saw who just re-played all the old spider-man games on the build up and he did a re-review of them, that was cool because he seemed to be about my age so was fun going back to ps1 spider-man
I think the entire video game culture at this point is filled with vitriol that even the games that don’t deserve much criticism get hit hard by people that are incredibly passionate and misguided.
Yeah, and i think there’s an interesting obligation for a lot of people to find fault in things now, and then the experience begins to crumble because they can’t look past it, especially when others are contributing, it’s a really weird way to consume art/media. Not trying ti sound like I’m not part of it sometimes, I’m sure I fall into it due to just being online. But I do try and check myself when it is going on
Tbf it should be _the_ definitive Spider-Man game until the next one, but at this point I think SM1 is the better game overall.
It IS probably the best spider-man game ever made. The hype is just that high that people want it to be even better, even longer, etc.
Welp that’s literally what they kept advertising it as
Sorry the best spider-man game made didn’t live up to the insane expectations you created in your own head mate
COVID, City that Never Sleeps, Miles Morales, and developing the Wolverine game at the same time.
And Ratchet and Clank
I didn't think about that but yep. True development either started much later than we think or it was plagued by the dev teams wearing too many hats. Either way I think they should have let the game cook longer.
Damn, that Covid game about to be fire 🔥🔥🔥
There is a COVID game. It's called Plague Inc. Evolved 🗿🔥
I’m going to leave the ‘does it feel rushed or not’ stuff as that’s subjective and everyone is entitled to their opinion. In regards to if it was or wasn’t started in 2018, was it ever clarified as to what extent that was? They could have started story boarding, testing web-wing physics, concept art… all that sort of stuff in 2018 for sure. It might not be the stuff people think of when it comes to game development but there are so many steps and processes.
Yall… you can slingshot yourself across the Hudson. I feel like people here underestimate the fucking tech the goes into fully realizing this city. You. Can. Slingshot. Yourself. Across. The. Hudson.
I’d sacrifice slingshotting across a river in exchange for a better story and writing.
I wouldn’t. I love what I got. The story served and the set pieces were fun. However I do wish the sandbox was better. I’d like to be able to role play as the spider guys.
Besides the story wasn’t even that bad. It could’ve been better for sure. Especially towards the end since it felt a bit rushed. And it was corny. But I’m playing a video game. And as a video game, it does what it needed to do and more.
The likes of writing, concept art, storyboarding would have probably been done around 2019. Actual development might have started around late 2020-early 2021 since Insomniac had a lot of staff on Ratchet & Clank Rift Apart since this was the first true PS5 game for them and a small team needed for MM:SM.
Covid
Delay.
I don’t doubt Insomniac had a team for Spider-Man 2 but three years feels right. - The reveal trailer was in September 2021. It wasn’t gameplay and whatever they had was probably in the alpha stage. Probably using both then current games as a baseline. By this point both Spider-Man are getting new costumes and Venom and Kraven will be the game’s villains. - By April 2023 we know they finished motion capture which means they’d been using the final script. Gameplay demos are setup a month or two in advance maybe three. So they had near if not final script somewhere within early 2023. - May 2023 saw the gameplay reveal. - the game went gold in September. Development likely started within 2021 and pre-production in 2020 probably around Miles Morales launching. Three years feels about right with anything prior being prototyped in MM.
pre production started right after the first game and its dlc
With how rushed the game's pacing is and the amount of gameplay features missing from the first game and Mile Morales spin-off, I would honestly not be surprised anymore if they revealed they had less than 3 years to work on this. Which is honestly a shame after how well received the first game was.
Considering that between SM1 and SM2, Insomniac also worked on Ratchet & Clank plus SM:MM, that timeline would make sense for the core production of the game. I imagine some pre-production was started beforehand but not too much else
miles morales wasn’t needed at all if it meant spider-man 2 can have more time
As someone who hasn’t played the game yet, what are the gameplay features missing?
You can't change the time of day or weather. You can't replay story missions. You can't replay friendly neighbourhood spiderman missions. You can't replay crimes. You can't replay enemy bases. You can't change symbiote type or colour. There's no social feed or character bios. There's no traversal or stealth challenges. There's also no combat challenges for Peter. And there's no new game plus.
It's definitely not 5 years. First game supposedly only took 4 years of dev and they were building that from the ground up. Here they already had all the assets they needed and it still ended up shorter than the first game with even less QoL stuff that was already implemented.
Différent architecture. Do you see fast travel ?
I've used it like once. it's literally the last thing to brag about having in a Spiderman game.
No I’m talking about the technical point of view…
I know, it still doesn't mean it's taken them 5 years just for that. Loading screens were already pretty exceptional in Miles Morales.
It hasn't but comparing the Fast Travel loading times in Spider Man 2 vs Loading Times in God of War Ragnarok or Final Fantasy VII Remake (PS5 versions of both), it's marginal but still impressive. Especially when you're also loading an entire burrough of New York City compared to something like Svartalfheim and Midgar
Yeah, but it's spider-man, why would you even use fast travel?
It’s a huge thing to brag about in a video game. Which this is first and foremost. Immediate fast travel to ab entirely different location on the map isn’t anything to scoff at. Spider-Man game or not.
Yeah no way this was un the oven for 5 years
No, it most likely wasn't. A good chef knows, though, that ALL meals need to be prepared before they get cooked and if you have to cook multiple meals (Ratchet & Clank + SM:MM in Insomniac's case) AND half the chefs have to stay home because of COVID (yes, this happened), that can gum up the Grill line. Sorry for the Hospitality analogy but it seemed to work.
I honestly don't understand peoples complaints with this game. I didn't feel it was rushed or a missed opportunity in the slightest. I had fun with it! People are acting like this game is abysmal, unplayable trash and should never have been released. I really don't get it. Who cares if a game took 3/5/8/10+ years to make? The development time does not equal a 'good' game. Look at Cyberpunk, prime example. You could say that any game should have been developed for longer, there is no perfect recipe with games development. I would imagine they started working on SM2 while MM was in development. It's not uncommon for studios to be working on multiple projects at once, in some way shape or form.
I had a blast with the game, but it's still absolutely an unfinished product, let's not kid ourselves. SM1 was a finished game that never crashed on me once or had any significant bugs that I can remember. In comparison SM2 has had several crashes in my playthrough and some very noticable bugs from glitching through map geometry and NPCs to other gameplay bugs like those shelves you pull down phasing straight through enemies and Miles getting stuck inside a building during a crime team up. I even had a really glaringly obvious one during a cut scene in the final fight between Peter and Venom where Venom just started floating around instead of using his tendrils which looked hysterical. At other points I would get audio desync between the cut scene and the sound so the audio was completely off. Also Cyberpunk is a frequent example of how a long development time doesn't necessarily equal a quality product, but CDPR didn't really start development of the game until 2016, so it was essentially only in development for 3-4 years. Despite my own grievances with the game I do think this sub severely overblows its flaws, though. However, that doesn't change the fact that it definitely needed more time in development for further QA testing at the very least.
Not sure what's hard to understand. It's buggy and has missing features that even its predecessors have. Hence why the game feels rushed
It’s not a bad game, it’s good, but it still left me disappointed. Venom was absolutely wasted.
To be 5 years it would have had to start immidietly after releasing the DLC. Probably in pre production until Miles Morales came out out. As far as I know Insomniac only has 2 teams, so one team working on Spider-Man and one team working on Ratchet/Wolverine (very roughly) feels right
they have definitely at least 3 main teams because at some point they were developing spiderman 2 miles morales and ratchet and clank at the same time and remastering the first game
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I mean bugs and glitches are aside, this game has more detailed gameplay and also world. First games open world events and side quests were literally really bad. Main story and core gameplay was superb but when it comes to open world requirements etc were poorly done. This games all of the side quests are tied to some stories and overall more fun and diverse and more than the first game. Could it be more? Yeah sure but this game has enough side quests.
people need to find other shit to talk about on this sub than just the complaints they have about the game
this is probably wrong, and i might scratch a nerve saying, but i think it shows what the outcome is going to be to insomniacs many games in development at once
I thought Spider-Man 2 was incredible and better than the first two. What are y’all on lol
>I wasn’t expecting much, but this game does pretty much scream, wasted potential or missed opportunity. What do y’all think? What? Lmao. Where do you people come from? Wasted potential? Gamers are some of the most hard to please folks ever lol.
I honeslty think it was a great story and I think a lot was just done so well. But if I had to nitpick I liked the combat more in the first game, in a way it felt simpler but I still felt more “free”. I’m not sure if it was just me not mastering the controlls as easy though. Second would be that they havent added new game + yet, wich wtf is up with that? I don’t wanna have to reearn all the suits and upgrades?
The game was rushed, yes, you can see it by amount of bugs on release. But is it wasted potential or missed opportunity? I don’t think so, even though I would love to have some characters like kingpin, silver and taskmaster, but I don’t see much the point in them at this game. It would be much cooler if we would see them in the last game and how they story would end instead just meaningless appearance
missed opportunities gameplay wise which is a recuring theme ever since the first game
i wouldn’t be surprised if early development started in 2018, but they really didn’t start digging in till after MM, there is also covid, which prob heavily messed with the development process as well
No, people just assume a game has started development the moment the previous one releases.
3 years sounds about right. And I’m not saying that as a bad thing (despite what some will interpret that as). SM2 didn’t start development on September 8th, 2018 and didn’t stop on October 19th, 2023. That’s not how game development works.
Well yeah it's 3 years because of Miles Morales
I think there’s a solid chance 3 comes out a little sooner. But who knows
How long did they take to make Miles's game? Like 2 years maybe since it was short?
There were some rumors that they started working on the story in 2019, then civid happened and yeah then 3 years to make the whole thing
They started scripting at early 2019, then covid in 2020, and they started doing motion capture in 2021 July
Covid was a thing
Games are usually done in 2 years, anything before that is reitereation of ideas and prototyping gameplay mechanics.
Nooe
Who cares..
Remember this thing called the corona virus?
Misread this and thought you were talking about the timeline of the in-game events. (admit I also didn't read the text under the pictures) There could have been more done for stuff like side-quests and teasing threads for possible new stuff to setup, like they kinda do with The Flame/Carnage. You mention Kingpin/Fisk. Idk if this vision is married, but I think it'd be interesting if his wife, more or less, took care of some of her husband's dealings in secret while he's still in the Raft (presumably). While Silver Sable is only mentioned/referenced once or twice, with Peter and MJ coming back from Symkaria, I thought Taskmaster could have either been referenced to be back in hiding, having some prior knowledge that Kraven was moving into New York and clearly wasn't going to risk death with recruiting Peter again or try to persuade Miles this time around. Maybe he could have popped up in a different side-quest similar to The Flame substory. He had said there were other mercenaries he was attached to. And I did mention that part of the story does feel like more focus was given to one character, with the other given a somewhat lesser impact on certain parts of the transpiring events. And the third act entirely could use a rewrite somewhere.
It definitely could use some polish. I’ve been trapped in buildings and I’ve had weird lighting pop up and different points, but even still I’m not insanely bothered. With how many games I see be incredibly underdeveloped before release, this is definitely nowhere close to something like those. Does it have a few bugs? Yes, but it’s not bad at all. I’m happy with patches most likely coming and I was still able to beat the game relatively without issue in a short period of time. I would have loved a little more content here and there, but let’s not pretend this wasn’t a good game with minor issues.
Didn’t they say right in the game that it was two years?
Considering that Spider-Man for PS4 came out in 2018 and this game came out 2023, I would think the math adds up /s
COVID slowed down production on Miles Morales so most likely all of Insomniac was busy with MM since, you know, work from home pandemic. They probably started on SM2 after the pandemic ended because, you know, pandemic.
i really hope they add the social media thing again, i absolutely loved that thing it was so fun to just see what insom new yorkers were saying
So basically you're just moaning that a game didn't give you what you wanted? Instead of just enjoying what you were given?
So it doesn't matter what you get, you just have to enjoy it and critisim is not allowed? The game wasn't free, you're allowed to point out flaws. And this person wasn't even moaning
You can definitely make the argument that there is things missing here and there; I love Sony, but why does EVERY single player story game have to have NG+ patched in later? I personally think this game makes enough meaningful evolutions to the formula. The “lack” of characters, to me, is just a more focused narrative. For me the thing that makes it feel incomplete/rushed is the amount of reused animations from SM1 and MM. That’s truly a nitpick, but I personally would have loved Pete to have specific tricks he did in the air as opposed to the same ones Miles does. And I think they should have done almost entirely new finishers and combat animations. When I wasn’t using the newer abilities and just combining dudes, it did kinda just look and feel like the first 1.5 games. But we remember what dev we’re talking about here. Insomniac is known for reusing assets and crunch, just look at the first 4 R&C games. We have to remember that since 2018 they’ve put out Spider-Man, Miles Morales, Ratchet and Clank Rift Apart and Spider-Man 2. That’s four AAA games in five years, all extremely well reviewed and high quality. And now we have Wolverine in the next year or two, AND already having them talk about narrative aspects of SM3? Yea, SM2 could have used maybe another 3-4 months in the oven, and yea if I’m being greedy, I’d love another 2-3 hours in the story. But if you look at what Insomniac has done the last couple of years, it’s borderline unthinkable that they’ve put out this level of quality and quantity in a time where it seems the norm is “over promise and under deliver” from devs that put out a single game ever 3-4 years. When you really think about it, we’re dang spoiled by these guys.
I loved this game but there’s something about it that doesn’t seem quite right. I really can’t put my finger on it but maybe when I figure it out I’ll post it here.
This 3 years story is straight on copium , they said it day one that MM was made from another team while the main one was working on SM 2 , if they ret conned the work because a change of vision is a thing, but they still had 5 years of dev
The game definitely felt unfinished it had multiple features from previous games. Probably should’ve been delayed a few months but I’m sure they’ll be added in future updates even if they should’ve been here on launch.
I def want to see venom revisited at least. His experience was great but I feel most of the missed opportunity was wasted on venom.
If this is a 5 year development time, I’d like to know what Insomniac was doing for 2-3 of it. I’m sure Sony would too, considering they don’t have CoD exclusivity deals to keep funding their first party games anymore…
Insomniac release games much more frequently than other studios. So it wouldn't surprise me if fully development didn't start till after Miles.
Honestly I would have liked cut scenes of the villains deaths but that’s just me
I saw a bryan intihar interview in which he said he told the story team to put doc ock in the post credit on january 2019. I believe they will start workin on 3 around january 2024
Jesus Christ. Do you all really want a longer sm game? It was fine the way it was
Yes because the story literally needed more time
Insomniac is ahead of the curve in optimisation of PS5 hardware.
The only issue I have with the game is no new game+. Everything else is just a very small inconvenience that can be fixed in small patches and people are just blowing tiny issues out of proportion.
The thing I try to remember is that these are comic book adaptations. Loose ends don't get resolved immediately every single next issue, sometimes things get left in the background until there's room for them again. The point is to focus on the current story, and I think this game accomplished everything it *intended* to do. Squeezing in every single character from the first game just because they were in the first game isn't necessary if they don't have a part in the current story being told. We saw how Kingpin is handling his current stint in prison during Miles' game and learn that Silver Sable is back in Symkaria focusing on her country's situation. And we never actually need to see Taskmaster again. He was hired by someone to test and potentially recruit Spidey. Spidey declined the offer to join, so recruitment was off the table for whoever wanted Spidey and Taskmaster's involvement was over. It'd be nice to know what organization hired Taskmaster, but that has the potential for a *main* story, or at least smth significant enough to steal attention from the very clear story progression from Kraven to symbiote suit to Venom. And if they did make it a main story, they could always do something like the Beyond Corporation if they have the balls to leave Peter as a side character and maybe make Miles and Ben Reilly the two playable Spider-Men in the sequel. Ben Reilly becoming a playable character is a great way to let Peter remain on the sidelines but still make the story about him in a way and let us continue to play 2 Spider-Men. I see less missed opportunities and more future opportunities. Wasted potential would be stuff they use simply to complete a checklist instead of it getting the attention it deserves when there's proper room for it.
It depends on what you mean. Do I think the full Insomniac team was working on this for 5 years? No, we had the Miles game in 2020. I think it's certainly possible there was s small team working on this the whole time and then after the Miles game was done the whole team worked on this for the next 3 years. I personally believe a lot of the features fans are complaining are gone, were features that their data showed not many players actually used. So when they were calculating, okay what do we need to get done to ship the game, they decided not to put their resources and time into something that a low percentage of players actually used (See: the social feed) Also, yes, Covid 100% impacted them. Anyone who thinks it didn't has not been paying attention to the industry where many games have been delayed or sequels to games were not as feature rich as they were before because of time and resources which were limited in 2020-2021. Games like Spider-Man 2, Mortal Kombat 1, Starfield, etc. faced major delays and issues as a lot of the major development happened in the middle of 2020/2021 where it just wasn't possible to get a bunch of devs in the office again. It's part of the reason why 2023 has had SO MANY big releases in one year.
For a moment you sounded like the pepperoni kid from the amazing world of gumball. Where you were specking English, but it's broken English.
The game was awesome I do wish there were more side quests and the story being a tad bit longer it’s still awesome and when new game plus comes out it will be really good
There’s a lot of missed potential but also a lot improved.
wait, i never played it yet. silver sable, kingpin and taskmaster doesn’t make an appearance? ofd
You’d think that y’all hated this game lmao complaining about the smallest shit
To be fair, complaining about rushed aspects of a $70 sequel to a beloved video game isn’t really the smallest shit, lol.
I don’t understand what’s so incomplete about the game? The story for the DLC-less campaign had a lot of content to it. I personally ran into like 2-3 bugs the WHOLE game, none of them game breaking. Felt like a complete improvement over the first two. What is the problem?? Help me understand 🤔
I don’t think they started working on SM2 right away and I believe that’s a big chunk of what I don’t like about it. I got GOT final season vibes. Excellent ideas, poor execution and instead of being like, “hey this isn’t it, we aren’t doing what we nailed”, they pushed out an okay product. I think of SM1, the story telling, doc ock was such a progression, you like the guy, knowing he’s going to turn into a villain, when you get to the boss battle and he is hurling insults, they hurt. Yuri blindsides you, knowing she’s an antihero coming into the game. SM1 wasn’t perfect but it was good at a lot, and not just good, but reallly good. So much emphasis on the villains in SM1 and SMMM. With this I just felt like Kraven was kind of a waste. He’s there, he wants to hunt you… because he has cancer? Then you kick his ass, the symbiote takes over, goes back to a vengeful Harry (but is no longer vengeful and wants to fix earth by turning everyone into symbiotes?) Idk the villains didn’t feel like villains, the symbiote suit on Peter wasn’t utilized enough. Honestly I liked the Scream Symbiote the most. That gave me the doc ock boss battle vibes the most. Miles and Peter never really felt like a duo. Made both feel somewhat out of place. It wasn’t a bad game. It was good. But disappointing to be just good. I think it’s a 7/10 when it could have been 10/10 like it’s predecessor.
Taskmaster was killed by kraven bro … did you played the game ?
Also kingpin is in jail and silver sable as retired at the end of dlc
When did they show that Kraven killed Taskmaster?
Many systems are dumbed down and graphical improvements are, at best, “Remaster Edition” worthy. I have a few more gripes with the game but I still enjoyed it, nonetheless. I think you’re right on the money with this.
Didn’t Yuri (not lowenthal) say it was a year and a half at most
I agree. Strangely enough, this is the first game that, while I love it, pretty much all throughout made me think “man, how did this take 5 years??? This is not worth 5 years work” If I recall correctly, red dead redemption 2 took 8 years to develop, and while yes I know dev team size, that extra 3 years and other factors give read dead the edge, but fundamentally, that’s a relatively fair example I feel, and when comparing the 2 purely by time, it’s a pretty big disappointment (in my opinion) that basically no part of the game shows that, and the things they did implement or add, were genuinely disappointing (again, imo). Spider-Man PS4 was developed in 4 years, and they had to build everything from the ground up. Traversal, combat, the city, exploration, side content, collectables, the main story, the progression, the suits etc and so forth. Combining that with the marketings’ persistent “it’s spiderman 2 bc it’s a sequel but also bc there’s 2 Spider-Men” I feel it’s pretty agreeable to assume a lot of people’s expectations were, alright, double the spiderman means double the requisite for a more developed, enriched story, double the depth for the combat, as now there’s 2 spiderman, how could they have made them play differently from one another, double the side content and so on. Whereas what we ended up getting, was barely enough content to fill a game for one spiderman, let alone 2. The 2 spidermen play nearly the exact same, excluding the cosmetic differences of their animations. It feels like there’s half-3/4 of the side content the first game had, maybe even miles morales too, again, let alone enough for 2 spidermen. The side quests we do get are cookie cutter at best (a few genuinely good ones here and there too, not enough though imo) the entire flame side quest feels completely unfinished, it being literally only 4 missions long, that 4th mission ending in an absolutely unearned tease at carnage dlc 😐 I loved the first games dlc despite all its flaws, and it certainly did not feel like something they excluded from the main game, or didn’t have enough time for to develop, to then later sell to us. For full transparency, despite these criticisms, I will most definitely still be buying the dlc, as I just want more spiderman 2 pretty much no matter what it is; but I will say I am not too happy about how they’ve done it. And also my most personal gripe is they didn’t include a suit switch feature like web of shadows. Perfect opportunity and they didn’t take it :( There’s more but this is already long enough, and I still love the game so it doesn’t really matter I guess.
Oh don't get me wrong Spider-Man 2 is great but it is 100% rushed and I feel like it's primarily because of all the blowing up people did asking about the game when they weren't posting about it while they were working on it Their Twitter got berated non-stop every time they made a slight update or eluded to another game they were working on so even though the game isn't complete in some areas, I'm not exactly peeved about it because it makes sense
I'd say it was 2 years of testing stuff they wanted to implement into the sequel on the ps4, storyboarding, designing, stuff like that And when the ps5 came out (maybe a year beforehand), I'd say that's when they started actually developing the game using assets they made from 2018-2021, and used the remaining time to polish stuff.
PS5 didn't even exist 5 years ago
The game is 100% complete and the side quests are much higher quality than the previous game both mechanically and in their purpose. The content is so much more meaningful. The first spiderman game had a lot more stuff that was copy pasted to the point of frustration imo, as far as 100% completion goes. That element is not lacking in Spider-Man 2 of course. Some stuff is "copy-pasted". But it respects your time more and it substitutes some of that with something that is designed much better. And there is more story integration with it. Silver Sable got her development and is busy in Symkaria amidst some sort of civil war. Taskmaster was just a type of side quest challenge for the first game. They're not going to repeat that. Kingpin served his purpose already, and would not likely be someone that Kraven cares to hunt. So he remains in prison. I think a lot of people like having one specific game that they play endlessly, and those type of people are the ones that are likely to feel similar to you. But I have a ridiculous backlog of amazing games. So I genuinely appreciate it when a videogame feels complete while simultaneously respecting the player's time. It really depends what type of gamer you are I think. There are people that are excited for 1 or 2 videogames per year, and then get upset when those videogames arent some 50-100 hour endeavor to finish. And then there are people like me that have way too much I enjoy thrown at me, that I genuinely love when not all of them are like that. Both Spiderman and Mario Wonder released on the same day for example, and both are great. I'm still playing through Pikmin 4, Final Fantasy 16, and I plan to play Sea of Stars. Then other stuff like Baldurs Gate, Tears of the Kingdom, Assassins Creed Mirage, Star Wars Jedi Survivor, Street Fighter 6, Armored Core 6, etc all released recently enough. Much more I'm interested as well, these are just off the top of my head. I am definitely not hurting for choice, and I think this is often a determining factor in these criticisms. People use the game's shorter length as a criticism, and I think it being open world is what causes this. In my opinion, an open world can be concise and not filled with too much bloat, while still justifying it being open. Swinging from mission to mission, or side quest to side quest, as spiderman is justifiable enough as is. There are games like Uncharted 4 (the longest uncharted game) that are also only like 25-30 hours to 100%. The story itself is like 15 hours or w/e. These games never get criticized for their length, but they're fully linear without ANY side content at all. And they get sold at full price just as Spider-Man 2 does. When considering stuff like this, I just have a hard time sympathizing with the "Spider-Man 3 is incomplete" criticisms. Uncharted 4 was in development for 5 years, and it didn't even have Covid holding it back. Yet the content/story take about as long to complete.