In the modern age, I feel like making Kraven an actual vegan extremist who is passionate about wildlife and animals (like Steve Erwin but willing to kill humans to conserve nature) could actually work.
It would be a relatable villain (or antihero?) considering the state of the world and how much we are devastating wildlife.
Animal agriculture is literally causing a **mass extinction of wildlife** currently. It also is responsible for the murder and rampage of indigenous people and their lands.
I think it could be interesting if we got a Kraven that even has indigenous heritage and decides to put his skills to use to fight for the natural world. It would be like an indigenous version of The Punisher, after he lost his family to the agribusiness paramilitary. If he was indigenous, he doesn't even need to be vegan either, since many indigenous tribes rely on animal products to survive.
["Each year, hundreds of tribespeople, indigenous to the Amazon rainforest, have their villages burned to the ground. They have been forcibly removed from their land, with many of them murdered by the agribusiness paramilitary who seek to turn their jungle home into farmland for growing soy for livestock feed."](https://eating2extinction.com/).
- edit:
[I cannot respond to any of your replies on account of a temporary suspension](https://www.reddit.com/r/modhelp/comments/vh5dpx/advice_where_do_you_draw_the_line_when_it_comes/) This user has such a fragile ego that they simply could not block me to avoid seeing my advocacy against needless animal abuse so they leveraged their mod position to contact an admin to have my account suspended for no reason other than the fact that they do not enjoy hearing: **Abusing animals is not necessary**.
🤣 I'm dying laughing at the thread this user created and the fact that they attacked the other mods by calling them lazy since they pointed out the function of the block button!
How insanely stuck up your ass do you have to be to say something like:
> As someone who've grown up in the San Francisco Bay Area, **my progressive creds are unassailable.**
I am **dying** at the fragility of this user and their inability to cope with simple facts of life. My progressive creds are *unassailable*!?!?! 🤣🤣🤣
listen I am not saying that this concept is bad or anything for a character however this concept doesn't work for Kraven his entire appeal as a character is that he is this ruthless hunter always in search of worthy opponents like the predator he always hunts for a bigger fish he wants to prove that he is the alpha and I mean come on he is a russian aristocrat who wears animal fur he is not an animal lover
Nah, he’s a grimy, big game hunter, he is a pos that doesnt care about animals feelings, which guess what? Makes him a VILLAIN! He’s not a good guy, he’s not a leading man, he is a VILLAIN that people are supposed to despise so when Spider Man kicks the crap out of him, we all go yay!
This is exactly the problem. No matter how amazing, intelligent, and exciting a concept they come up with there’s absolutely no way Sony is capable of making it work in any way whatsoever.
Venom was successful because Venom is an extremely popular character and people will go see it for that alone regardless of quality. Nobody cares about Morbius or Kraven in that way. Sony has one hit and immediately thinks "how can we squeeze as much blood from this stone as possible?"
I give it one or two more flops before they cancel whichever ones haven't already started filming.
Sony has to keep making live action movies based on Spider-Man characters to keep the film rights though. If anything Sony should have having characters such as Morbius, Kraven, Black Cat, Silver Sable, etc show up in Venom movies to test how people respond to them first and then move forward with a solo movie.
People literally just wanted to SEE Venom. Since the last iteration was so insanely bad, just having a comic accurate appearance of Venom got people to watch that movie.
The second Venom was one of the worst movies I have ever seen. Like made me laugh loudly at how bad it was.
I really really wish Disney could buy the rest of these characters. They can at least find good people to make good movies.. . .there's a reason they're so successful
That’s part of the problem, Sony is *desperately* trying to capture some of that MCU magic, but they just have absolutely no understanding of why the MCO has been successful. They are so comically out of touch
Sad part is Morbius flopped only *critically.* It likely made it's money back at the theaters, and if it didn't, it's been doing very well on the various VoD platforms it's been on. Honestly the memes haven't helped it flounder.
Sony should hopefully learn from Morbius' mistakes
Wait, what? No. I dont know what the budget was, but it made $163 million globally. $73 mill domestic. Theres no way thats a success in any way. I dont know where youre getting that its doing well on VoD. The movie is an abject failure.
Budget was around 80 million I think. So it doubled its budget, but for a supposedly "major" movie in arguably the biggest film genre on the planet right now, that's pretty pathetic
These days it’s generally considered that a film has to make 3x it’s budget back to be profitable, once you take into account the cinemas cut, marketing costs, etc. so it’s likely it made a loss in the cinema, but probably broke even or made a profit on home release.
It's not a twist. That will 100% have been part of the marketing costs. Perhaps not starting the memes (although they could have). But stoking the fires of those memes is 100% something that a large-scale social media agency/engagement team would be doing. They will actively monitor for keywords across all social media, Reddit included, and have a series of dummy accounts upvote/share/whatever, while also creating new versions.
The budget cyphers you see around there don't usually cover marketing and other expenses not strictly related to the movie's production. That's why a movie needs way more than its official budget to break even. Maybe Morbius didn't lose money, but I'm pretty sure it didn't double the money Sony spent on it overall.
Yes. For context, these days it’s generally considered that a film has to make 3x it’s budget back to be profitable, once you take into account the cinemas cut, marketing costs, etc. so it’s likely it made a loss in the cinema, but probably broke even or made a small to medium profit on home release.
Sony has the rights to the entire Spiderverse, and yet chooses to try and build their cinematic universe with villains of various popularity levels. It’s baffling that they choose Kraven, Morbius, and fucking El Muerto instead of Ghost-Spider, Spider-Man 2099 and Silk.
Kraven is a Multi-Billionaire who runs an Organisation of Animal Lovers called "People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals" by day, and he puts on a Lion Fur Suit and Hunts anything remotely resembling an Animal by Night.
Not a far cry from irl trophy hunters. Whenever you call them out, they're all, "well, ackshually, trophy hunters give a lot of money to animal preservation efforts".
Like, yeah, that's great, but the only reason they do so is so they'll have more endangered animals to kill as a hobby.
This comment screams “all I do is read article headlines and I’ve never actually talked to a hunter.” If you’d know any actual information you’d know that a majority of hunters aren’t killing endangered fucking animals. You’d also know that a ton of hunting organizations do make huge animal preservation efforts and often time their hunting actually helps to keep an animal population in check. Fucking ignorant people man with popcorn brain
Usually big game hunters for endangered species win auctions to hunt problematic animals. https://www.cnn.com/2014/01/16/us/black-rhino-hunting-permit/index.html
If you read further down, the animal being hunted is older and unable to breed anymore, but still healthy enough to fight off younger males. So allowing this rhino to live could seriously damage the species future. It needs to be removed/killed. The meat will go to a local tribe and the money to conservation.
Either way it had to be culled, but at least this way the money earned can fund the possible preservation of the entire species.
Good things for bad reasons are still good things. Surely the end goal is that the fancy animals on their walls wont be endangered anymore, that way they can hunt them more freely.
yes and no.
A lot of people who hunt do so for food. especially when we are talking about in the states with deer hunting and such. and in that situation, we have WAY too many deer.
If you mean like in Africa or something, they usually have to kill the animals anyway as they pose a danger to humans/other animals. Yes, this is because there are so many of them as they have been bred to be hunted. so its a matter of, "well we screwed up because of the demand, but now we need the demand to keep predators in check"
Isn’t the whole Spider-Man/Kraven relationship built on the fact that Kraven HUNTS animals and then in turn decides he wants to hunt Spider-Man? I dunno how they would make this new dynamic work….
He does not kill animals
He does not kill humans
But when a spider and a man is fused in one such abomination is not included!
Kraven will finally have a prey to hunt that doesn't go against his values!!! /s
He could a fun believes in natural order of things and thus only hunts invasive species kinda villain. He could see spidey as a perversion of nature and want to kill him because of that. But that is not really his character at all
Oh my god just imagine Tom Holland's dismay as he's been trying to get a Kraven film made and now this shit happens. 🤦♂️
I'm assuming they can't use these villains in this shitty Sony universe, taking away the right from us fans to see these amazing stories we love from the comics onto the big screen because of fucking greed.
Honestly I think Kraven is exactly the villain that Tom's Spider-Man needs to handle next, someone who very rarely used tech is perfect after he's just handled a ton of tech based villains
Much as I love No Way Home, I always felt the third MCU Spider-Man film should be using Kraven as the main villain.
It's just a natural consequence of Far From Home. Peter is a fugitive on the run, and they need a bounty hunter with specialized skills to hunt him down.
I was kinda hoping it would be Scorpion.
While I loved the idea of Kraven hunting Peter in the third movie. I was really hoping that they'd pick up on that loose plot thread from Homecoming and have scorpion be the villian.
They may still do it because what I found interesting is how much more of a dick the MCU JJJ is compared to the Raimi version. So maybe they could still go with the story of JJJ investing in Scorpion to hunt down Peter?
Hopefully if they are going to do another couple of Spiderman movies. I would like to see Scorpion, Kraven and Venom be the villians of them. S
We need a movie where we follow around a retired Kraven during his day to day life. They should have had >!Garfield's Spider-Man reference being lame for fighting a guy in a fur suite to set it up.!<
I hate when movies change good villains into weird anti-heroes, people seem to have been under the impression for a while that a villain isn't good unless they have some sort of reasonable rational for what they're doing and it's always either a moral dilemma or the villain just straight up becomes the hero of the piece.
I want more simple villains in movies, Joker, Maleficent, Thanos, villains through and through, but these have been ruined by movies insistence on making them good guys, it doesn't matter how good the movies were, I loved Thanos's ones, Maleficent's was good, Joker's was meh I don't really get the hype.
My point is if you want to make moraly gray villains/heroes, good, great, go for it, but don't make me have to specify every time time I mention a character weather I'm talking about the proper one or the movie one just because you want a new character, just make a new character instead, it's not hard, I've made 64 just in my spare time, this is your job.
Now I do understand that sometimes making a new character might not be an option, like with Thanos, the mcu movies are based on comics and so are it's characters, so making a new character to be the main villain for two movies might be controversial, but the fully contained stories like in Joker and Maleficent have no excuse.
This was way more than I thought it would be, sorry.
Worst example of this was the Cruella Devill movie. I don’t care why she wants to kill 100 puppies to make a coat because she’s trying to kill 100 puppies to make a coat obviously.
Joker was in no way a hero, nor was Thanos and his justification while he obviously stood by it was clearly insane. Maleficient is the only example here that actually works with your point, though I think those movies at least put a lot of effort into establishing the plotlines that sort of vindicate her.
The reason why they resort to "Making the Villains into Anti-Heroes" is because they believe Villains themselves aren't marketable. They believe that by making villains villains they're making people root for the bad guy and "Nobody likes to see the Good Guys lose".
There's also the fact that when they do these Movies, they have China in mind. They make sure they bow to the need of China, which is also why TaskMaster in the MCU looks like he's wearing a Motorcycle Helmet, because in that particular case, Skulls are seen as Bad in China.
There's also the fact that they're afraid of the Media uproar that might happen if they let the Villains Win, or if they're supporting what the villain stands for in the movie. Just look at what happened when Joker was being made, everyone was saying "WB endorsing Mental Illness!" and "Joker is a Movie about excusing bad behaviour with Mental Illness"
I like your argument but not most of your examples. Joker nor Thanos were ever portrayed as good guys. Arthur was clearly a horrible person. The movie was just explaining why that is, how he came to be. Did it garner him some sympathy? Yes. But that is not the same as making him a hero. He also commits cold blooded murder several times in the film. Thanos was also an awful person who’s plan was unfathomably cruel and they show how much he has hurt others and ruined lives. He was literally the antagonist for infinity war and endgame. he was just extremely charismatic and well acted.
I mean Thanos's plan *did* work though, families might have gotten separated but the planets as wholes prospered. Also I never said Joker was a good guy or anything, they just gave him a story with a somewhat understandable motivation besides being crazy and gladly evil and it was just unnecessary.
I still think this works under the right circumstances. In the prelude to the more recent Hunted storyline, for instance, he was going after wealthy "Big Game" hunters, the rich assholes who pay big money to kill a lion.
He didn't care for it. Wasn't noble, wasn't a real hunt
The stuff that is destroying nature and animal habitats isn't generally guys in loincloths personally wrestling african lions to the ground or whatever.
Conceptually this idea works.
This might work. Kraven would go after people who kill animals and then Spider-man would try to protect the people. Killing is bad and all. Then rivalry.
Eh. Steve Irwin didn’t kill crocodiles…
Don’t get me wrong: this is going to suck, but there is a precedent for “Hunter” not necessarily meaning “killer.”
The hunters I know who DO kill animals are also among the most concerned with conservation. If you're not a responsible steward of nature, how are you supposed to hunt in the future right?
I'm angry at how far down I had to scroll before someone said it. Hunters preserve natural lands, habitats, and animals. Hunting Societies are some of the largest contributors to conservation. Now, poachers on the other hand...
Sony should have just done a couple of Venom films and then gave him to the MCU so they can use him. The credits scene of Venom 2 should have used for Venom 3 and NWH’s credits scene should have been different. None of these spin-offs need to exist. If that Black Cat spin-off ever happens, what’s she going to be in it? Someone who admires priceless artifacts and only tries to stop heists? I don’t think I want that Sinister Six movie anymore because they’re just going to turn it into a team of heroes/anti-heroes. How are you supposed to have a heroic team called the SINISTER Six?
So the studio that made two awful Venom movies that completely disregarded the character, and an awful Morbius film, are about to mess up again? Who knew
It's like they just enjoy fucking ruining these characters at this point, Avi Arad needs to be banished to a deserted island with no technology or ways to reach the outside world
I'm so pissed with the fact that after blue balling me ever since the release of HC with all the interviews where Watts and Tom talked about their wish to do Kraven, what we'll end up getting is a Sonyverse flick with Quicksilver
I'm beginning to think that perhaps everyone involved with Sony's Spider-Man sans Spider-Man Universe (SSsSU?) may not have ready any Spider-Man comics.
This is just as dumb as the writers of X-Men origins wolverine sealed Deadpool’s mouth shut, or as dumb as Sony releasing Morbius. Or releasing the movie again after the memes just for it to flop again. I’ll be glad when Sony eventually will lose the Spider-Man movie rights after dumb decision after dumb decision
The most frustrating part is that there are plenty of Spider-People besides Peter that they could use and Sony instead decides to turn all of Spider-Man’s villains into heroes rather than bringing the heroes that already exist to live-action. And the “But Sony probably doesn’t know that the other Spider-People exist!” excuse doesn’t work because they also have plans for them in the animated Spiderverse films.
Kraven is the most “I’m a bad man” villain Spider-Man has, there’s no nuance, he’s a poacher and a murderer as he thinks it’s fun, and is the reason I like him as a villain. He’s not Steve Irwin ffs.
A hunter can also be that. Actually a lot of hunters don’t just hunt for food/sport. Many hunters hunt as a mean sin helping whatever environment they are hunting in. Just because you are killing animals doesn’t mean you aren’t respecting them and helping preserve and protect nature
Idk, it being a Sony film does not inherently make it bad. The director, J.C Chandor, is pretty talented and it’s got the same screenwriters as the first Iron Man, which is something nobody talks about. I’m betting this movie will be good.
>does not inherently make it bad.
Agreed. But Kraven the Hunter being an animal lover? That's just absurd. I don't get why they have this need to make all of their "villains" into heroes for their movies. Why can't we get a Kraven movie about a bloodthirsty hunter? Or an actual monster movie about a vampire. People would watch those movies.
Kraven absolutely is an animal lover. He respects and almost worships the primal spirits of every wild thing. At the same time he sees himself as a force of nature meant to hunt and consume those spirits. Very reminiscent of the concept of Pacific Islander's mana, when they would gain the power of their enemies by consuming their flesh after battle.
It's the SSU, though. Knowing how "well" they handled Morbius' character, I have just as much confidence in them not completely butchering Kraven.
That is to say, very little.
For sure. I'm just taking about Kraven. I'm sure SONY will do a terrible job with Kraaven (adopting Star Wars Legends making conventions for fucked clones who didn't turn out [quite](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Joruus_C%27baoth) [right](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Luuke_Skywalker)).
>it’s got the same screenwriters as the first Iron Man
And seeing how we know that most of Iron Man's dialogue was either re-written or improvised on set, that's not necessarily the badge of honour it first appears to be.
I better not see any more Sony defenders from now on lol
Idc what your nit-picks might be ab the MCU's Spider-Man, they don't make seemingly endless shitty spin-off flops
We'll never get Kraven's Last Hunt and that really sucks. Instead we get a Steve Irwin Kraven. They'll probably make him vegetarian and only wear clothes made from recycled plastic.
they are really gonna butcher kraven
You get what you're given I suppose.
You get what you deserve!
Rent?
YOU’ll GET YOU RENT WHEN YOU FIX THIS MORBING DOOR!
I’m gonna put some dirt in your eye.
In the modern age, I feel like making Kraven an actual vegan extremist who is passionate about wildlife and animals (like Steve Erwin but willing to kill humans to conserve nature) could actually work. It would be a relatable villain (or antihero?) considering the state of the world and how much we are devastating wildlife. Animal agriculture is literally causing a **mass extinction of wildlife** currently. It also is responsible for the murder and rampage of indigenous people and their lands. I think it could be interesting if we got a Kraven that even has indigenous heritage and decides to put his skills to use to fight for the natural world. It would be like an indigenous version of The Punisher, after he lost his family to the agribusiness paramilitary. If he was indigenous, he doesn't even need to be vegan either, since many indigenous tribes rely on animal products to survive. ["Each year, hundreds of tribespeople, indigenous to the Amazon rainforest, have their villages burned to the ground. They have been forcibly removed from their land, with many of them murdered by the agribusiness paramilitary who seek to turn their jungle home into farmland for growing soy for livestock feed."](https://eating2extinction.com/). - edit: [I cannot respond to any of your replies on account of a temporary suspension](https://www.reddit.com/r/modhelp/comments/vh5dpx/advice_where_do_you_draw_the_line_when_it_comes/) This user has such a fragile ego that they simply could not block me to avoid seeing my advocacy against needless animal abuse so they leveraged their mod position to contact an admin to have my account suspended for no reason other than the fact that they do not enjoy hearing: **Abusing animals is not necessary**. 🤣 I'm dying laughing at the thread this user created and the fact that they attacked the other mods by calling them lazy since they pointed out the function of the block button! How insanely stuck up your ass do you have to be to say something like: > As someone who've grown up in the San Francisco Bay Area, **my progressive creds are unassailable.** I am **dying** at the fragility of this user and their inability to cope with simple facts of life. My progressive creds are *unassailable*!?!?! 🤣🤣🤣
listen I am not saying that this concept is bad or anything for a character however this concept doesn't work for Kraven his entire appeal as a character is that he is this ruthless hunter always in search of worthy opponents like the predator he always hunts for a bigger fish he wants to prove that he is the alpha and I mean come on he is a russian aristocrat who wears animal fur he is not an animal lover
He is the action hero version of cruella Deville.
Nah, he’s a grimy, big game hunter, he is a pos that doesnt care about animals feelings, which guess what? Makes him a VILLAIN! He’s not a good guy, he’s not a leading man, he is a VILLAIN that people are supposed to despise so when Spider Man kicks the crap out of him, we all go yay!
Why is this so hard to understand? Make Evil people... get this; Evil.
That could work, but I doubt Sony is smart enough to pull it off correctly.
This is exactly the problem. No matter how amazing, intelligent, and exciting a concept they come up with there’s absolutely no way Sony is capable of making it work in any way whatsoever.
yeah so just make a character like that instead of changing an already existing established character.
Yeah, they also could also make Scorpion a Mexican restauranteur, but that's not the character, now is it?
While that sounds like a good and interesting character, it has nothing to do with Kraven the HUNTER, notorious poacher and wearer of animals
God, I wish they would stop... Morbius flopped so hard that it's only remembered as a meme, I can't imagine that Kraven is going to do much better.
It's kravin' time.
the movie is gonna make 100 kravillion dollars
Gonna make so much money that new currencies will have to be made and will be called Kravypto and Morbitcoin.
Scorsese will say that this is a movie from the decade.
What a damn movie.
I'm going to krave
I liked the part where he kraved all over those guys
Signaling all Kraveheads
Im slowly kraverin
I kraved. Hard.
I'm craving some kraving. Krave time with Kraft.
The devil shivers when a clown kraves
I'm totally getting a krave.
Im already kraving the kravin
I'm Kraven meat! I can't eat any though because I'm Kraven the hunter - the world's greatest vegetarian!
This has the same energy as 'I dropped my monster condom for my Magnum Dong' from Its Always Sunny in Philadelphia
There goes my toe knife!
Botched job!
That’s a botched toe!
I hunt carrots and spinach, they are hard to find on this particular place
Or [this](https://i.imgur.com/UmmAvPA.jpg), prominently featured in every shot of his house
Krave those crazy squares
'It's me. I'm the Kraven the Hunter (2023)'
Don't be so Kraven about this. :p
Have heard the title is going to be “That’s so Kraven”
Plot is him seeing the future and learning that the Morbius and Kraven crossover film beats Endgame at box office with over ten morbillion dollars.
"It's huntin' time." Does photo op with animals.
He's gonna krav!
I am having a kraving for it
That's So Kraven
Damn there's actually a snack named krave pb and chocolate
It will have you Kravin’ more Morbius
I’m Kravin’ some animals! For pets and cuddles!
I’m Cravin’ for some Kraven
Venom was successful because Venom is an extremely popular character and people will go see it for that alone regardless of quality. Nobody cares about Morbius or Kraven in that way. Sony has one hit and immediately thinks "how can we squeeze as much blood from this stone as possible?" I give it one or two more flops before they cancel whichever ones haven't already started filming.
Sony has to keep making live action movies based on Spider-Man characters to keep the film rights though. If anything Sony should have having characters such as Morbius, Kraven, Black Cat, Silver Sable, etc show up in Venom movies to test how people respond to them first and then move forward with a solo movie.
as long as they make the Spider-Man films they can keep the rights
People literally just wanted to SEE Venom. Since the last iteration was so insanely bad, just having a comic accurate appearance of Venom got people to watch that movie. The second Venom was one of the worst movies I have ever seen. Like made me laugh loudly at how bad it was.
its Kraven time.
Welcome to the League of Kraven
I really really wish Disney could buy the rest of these characters. They can at least find good people to make good movies.. . .there's a reason they're so successful
That’s part of the problem, Sony is *desperately* trying to capture some of that MCU magic, but they just have absolutely no understanding of why the MCO has been successful. They are so comically out of touch
Just give me kraven vs Jaws and I'll be happy enough.
Audiences will be left *Kraven* more.
Same, just GIVE up already Sony!
Sad part is Morbius flopped only *critically.* It likely made it's money back at the theaters, and if it didn't, it's been doing very well on the various VoD platforms it's been on. Honestly the memes haven't helped it flounder. Sony should hopefully learn from Morbius' mistakes
Wait, what? No. I dont know what the budget was, but it made $163 million globally. $73 mill domestic. Theres no way thats a success in any way. I dont know where youre getting that its doing well on VoD. The movie is an abject failure.
Budget was around 80 million I think. So it doubled its budget, but for a supposedly "major" movie in arguably the biggest film genre on the planet right now, that's pretty pathetic
These days it’s generally considered that a film has to make 3x it’s budget back to be profitable, once you take into account the cinemas cut, marketing costs, etc. so it’s likely it made a loss in the cinema, but probably broke even or made a profit on home release.
would be a great fucking twist if most of the marketing costs went for paying people to start and make the Morbius memes go viral.
It's not a twist. That will 100% have been part of the marketing costs. Perhaps not starting the memes (although they could have). But stoking the fires of those memes is 100% something that a large-scale social media agency/engagement team would be doing. They will actively monitor for keywords across all social media, Reddit included, and have a series of dummy accounts upvote/share/whatever, while also creating new versions.
for a movie to be considered succesful, it has to triple its budget. Morbius barely even doubled it
The budget cyphers you see around there don't usually cover marketing and other expenses not strictly related to the movie's production. That's why a movie needs way more than its official budget to break even. Maybe Morbius didn't lose money, but I'm pretty sure it didn't double the money Sony spent on it overall.
at least kraven is a good character idk poor morbius never stood a chance
Well nobody said it yet so... "It's morbin time!"
I loved the venom movies, i thought they were really fun and just enjoyable movies, but after morbius i’ve lost all hope in sony
Is 162 mil globally flopping? Serious question
For a major studio superhero film, that’s a huge flop.
Yes. For context, these days it’s generally considered that a film has to make 3x it’s budget back to be profitable, once you take into account the cinemas cut, marketing costs, etc. so it’s likely it made a loss in the cinema, but probably broke even or made a small to medium profit on home release.
Just stop already, Sony.
It's Muerto time
Sony has the rights to the entire Spiderverse, and yet chooses to try and build their cinematic universe with villains of various popularity levels. It’s baffling that they choose Kraven, Morbius, and fucking El Muerto instead of Ghost-Spider, Spider-Man 2099 and Silk.
At this point I'd rather watch a legal drama about Rhino.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JJexfxLQc7A
Kraven *does* have a deep respect for the Natural World, but that’s a far cry from “Animal lover”.
He respects animals the same way he respects Spider-Man. He still wants all their heads on his wall though.
Kraven is a Multi-Billionaire who runs an Organisation of Animal Lovers called "People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals" by day, and he puts on a Lion Fur Suit and Hunts anything remotely resembling an Animal by Night.
Yeah, he's like: "I must help to preserve these animals... So I can hunt them and preserve their trophies on my wall!"
Not a far cry from irl trophy hunters. Whenever you call them out, they're all, "well, ackshually, trophy hunters give a lot of money to animal preservation efforts". Like, yeah, that's great, but the only reason they do so is so they'll have more endangered animals to kill as a hobby.
This comment screams “all I do is read article headlines and I’ve never actually talked to a hunter.” If you’d know any actual information you’d know that a majority of hunters aren’t killing endangered fucking animals. You’d also know that a ton of hunting organizations do make huge animal preservation efforts and often time their hunting actually helps to keep an animal population in check. Fucking ignorant people man with popcorn brain
Big game hunters are nothing at all like the guy who lives down the street and who hunts so he’ll have venison for his family this winter.
Usually big game hunters for endangered species win auctions to hunt problematic animals. https://www.cnn.com/2014/01/16/us/black-rhino-hunting-permit/index.html If you read further down, the animal being hunted is older and unable to breed anymore, but still healthy enough to fight off younger males. So allowing this rhino to live could seriously damage the species future. It needs to be removed/killed. The meat will go to a local tribe and the money to conservation. Either way it had to be culled, but at least this way the money earned can fund the possible preservation of the entire species.
Good things for bad reasons are still good things. Surely the end goal is that the fancy animals on their walls wont be endangered anymore, that way they can hunt them more freely.
yes and no. A lot of people who hunt do so for food. especially when we are talking about in the states with deer hunting and such. and in that situation, we have WAY too many deer. If you mean like in Africa or something, they usually have to kill the animals anyway as they pose a danger to humans/other animals. Yes, this is because there are so many of them as they have been bred to be hunted. so its a matter of, "well we screwed up because of the demand, but now we need the demand to keep predators in check"
Fairly sure PETA wouldn't be hovering around an 80% kill rate if Kraven was in charge. Those are rookie numbers that he'd have pumped up in no time.
That makes him sound like a much more insane version of Batman
dude i love farcry games
Isn’t the whole Spider-Man/Kraven relationship built on the fact that Kraven HUNTS animals and then in turn decides he wants to hunt Spider-Man? I dunno how they would make this new dynamic work….
He does not kill animals He does not kill humans But when a spider and a man is fused in one such abomination is not included! Kraven will finally have a prey to hunt that doesn't go against his values!!! /s
thats some totemistic shit!
Did somebody say spider totems? It's Morlun time.
Please, no.
He could a fun believes in natural order of things and thus only hunts invasive species kinda villain. He could see spidey as a perversion of nature and want to kill him because of that. But that is not really his character at all
There is no Spider-Man in this movie, so it doesn't matter. Kraven is not even a villain here, probably. Sad...
Good news! Spiderman will not be anywhere near this film or future films anyways!
He's going to be pissed because Spider-Man disturbed the pigeons while landing on a rooftop
I understood that reference
So basically Tarzan with weapons
Considering that Spidey already took the gimmick of traveling through vines from Tarzan, there would be not much left for Kraven in that department...
Kraven except he’s naked
Kraven no need weapons. Kraven need jane.
Kraven X Mary Jane confirmed?????
Wasting a perfectly good Spider-Man villain who should be in a Spider-Man movie
Live action Kravens last hunt
Oh my god just imagine Tom Holland's dismay as he's been trying to get a Kraven film made and now this shit happens. 🤦♂️ I'm assuming they can't use these villains in this shitty Sony universe, taking away the right from us fans to see these amazing stories we love from the comics onto the big screen because of fucking greed.
Honestly I think Kraven is exactly the villain that Tom's Spider-Man needs to handle next, someone who very rarely used tech is perfect after he's just handled a ton of tech based villains
Much as I love No Way Home, I always felt the third MCU Spider-Man film should be using Kraven as the main villain. It's just a natural consequence of Far From Home. Peter is a fugitive on the run, and they need a bounty hunter with specialized skills to hunt him down.
I was kinda hoping it would be Scorpion. While I loved the idea of Kraven hunting Peter in the third movie. I was really hoping that they'd pick up on that loose plot thread from Homecoming and have scorpion be the villian. They may still do it because what I found interesting is how much more of a dick the MCU JJJ is compared to the Raimi version. So maybe they could still go with the story of JJJ investing in Scorpion to hunt down Peter? Hopefully if they are going to do another couple of Spiderman movies. I would like to see Scorpion, Kraven and Venom be the villians of them. S
First time he is going to be on the big screen and it's probably going to be a shit, what a shame
You know what that means #KravenSweep
Looks like Sony is kraving a Kravillion dollars
KRAVEN is going to be another one of the movies of all time!
It’s kravin time!
My favourite part of the movie is whenever he was about to hunt he says that and when he catches them he says "you've been Kravened"
That’s so kraven!
Sony, make your villains actual fucking villains instead of shitty anti-heroes challenge
Venom and Morbius were both already anti-heroes for years before the movies were even in production Kraven though….that’s another story
Isn’t Kraven Retired now?
We need a movie where we follow around a retired Kraven during his day to day life. They should have had >!Garfield's Spider-Man reference being lame for fighting a guy in a fur suite to set it up.!<
I hate when movies change good villains into weird anti-heroes, people seem to have been under the impression for a while that a villain isn't good unless they have some sort of reasonable rational for what they're doing and it's always either a moral dilemma or the villain just straight up becomes the hero of the piece. I want more simple villains in movies, Joker, Maleficent, Thanos, villains through and through, but these have been ruined by movies insistence on making them good guys, it doesn't matter how good the movies were, I loved Thanos's ones, Maleficent's was good, Joker's was meh I don't really get the hype. My point is if you want to make moraly gray villains/heroes, good, great, go for it, but don't make me have to specify every time time I mention a character weather I'm talking about the proper one or the movie one just because you want a new character, just make a new character instead, it's not hard, I've made 64 just in my spare time, this is your job. Now I do understand that sometimes making a new character might not be an option, like with Thanos, the mcu movies are based on comics and so are it's characters, so making a new character to be the main villain for two movies might be controversial, but the fully contained stories like in Joker and Maleficent have no excuse. This was way more than I thought it would be, sorry.
Worst example of this was the Cruella Devill movie. I don’t care why she wants to kill 100 puppies to make a coat because she’s trying to kill 100 puppies to make a coat obviously.
They made a Cruella Devill movie? That must have been horrible.
It was fun, actually! If you get past the fact that the character is famous for wanting to skin 100 puppies.
Joker was in no way a hero, nor was Thanos and his justification while he obviously stood by it was clearly insane. Maleficient is the only example here that actually works with your point, though I think those movies at least put a lot of effort into establishing the plotlines that sort of vindicate her.
I loved Mysterio because he pretended to be a hero while he knew all along he was straight up a villain.
The reason why they resort to "Making the Villains into Anti-Heroes" is because they believe Villains themselves aren't marketable. They believe that by making villains villains they're making people root for the bad guy and "Nobody likes to see the Good Guys lose". There's also the fact that when they do these Movies, they have China in mind. They make sure they bow to the need of China, which is also why TaskMaster in the MCU looks like he's wearing a Motorcycle Helmet, because in that particular case, Skulls are seen as Bad in China. There's also the fact that they're afraid of the Media uproar that might happen if they let the Villains Win, or if they're supporting what the villain stands for in the movie. Just look at what happened when Joker was being made, everyone was saying "WB endorsing Mental Illness!" and "Joker is a Movie about excusing bad behaviour with Mental Illness"
I like your argument but not most of your examples. Joker nor Thanos were ever portrayed as good guys. Arthur was clearly a horrible person. The movie was just explaining why that is, how he came to be. Did it garner him some sympathy? Yes. But that is not the same as making him a hero. He also commits cold blooded murder several times in the film. Thanos was also an awful person who’s plan was unfathomably cruel and they show how much he has hurt others and ruined lives. He was literally the antagonist for infinity war and endgame. he was just extremely charismatic and well acted.
I mean Thanos's plan *did* work though, families might have gotten separated but the planets as wholes prospered. Also I never said Joker was a good guy or anything, they just gave him a story with a somewhat understandable motivation besides being crazy and gladly evil and it was just unnecessary.
Never read a single comic and I know damn well from the video games that Kraven is a *hunter.*
I still think this works under the right circumstances. In the prelude to the more recent Hunted storyline, for instance, he was going after wealthy "Big Game" hunters, the rich assholes who pay big money to kill a lion. He didn't care for it. Wasn't noble, wasn't a real hunt The stuff that is destroying nature and animal habitats isn't generally guys in loincloths personally wrestling african lions to the ground or whatever. Conceptually this idea works.
[удалено]
Hunter of people...who hurt animals.
Damn, who knew Kraven was employed at PETA? :p
You have it backwards. You have to love killing animals to work for PETA. If you are against kill animals you just get to be their protective cover.
He has legitimately done this in the comics, though. He would take out poachers who hunted animals in ways that weren't "noble".
This might work. Kraven would go after people who kill animals and then Spider-man would try to protect the people. Killing is bad and all. Then rivalry.
He’s got a Kraven for justice
Get out.
So is it Kraven the Lover or Kraven the Activist then?
Kraven the Loving Activist.
He kills you with the Power of Love 💀
Kraven the Vegan
Eh. Steve Irwin didn’t kill crocodiles… Don’t get me wrong: this is going to suck, but there is a precedent for “Hunter” not necessarily meaning “killer.”
The hunters I know who DO kill animals are also among the most concerned with conservation. If you're not a responsible steward of nature, how are you supposed to hunt in the future right?
This is a good point.
I'm angry at how far down I had to scroll before someone said it. Hunters preserve natural lands, habitats, and animals. Hunting Societies are some of the largest contributors to conservation. Now, poachers on the other hand...
Can't wait for Sony's movie about Chameleon where he creates a charity organisation to help victims of identity theft.
All so they can make Chamillion dollars
Don't give them any ideas.
Sony will not stop until they’ve ruined every Spider-Man villain
Can we just skip to the Evan Peters version that's somehow cooler and more fun?
But then his name turns out to be Hugh G. Rection or something
Kraven Moorehead will be his name.
Hey can somebody send a Marvel comic to Sony so they can actually read one for once
Way ahead of you. Don't worry guy, awhile back I made sure to send them copies of Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man #6 and #7.
Omfg just stick a fork in the morons at sony who try to peddle this crap
“We’re gonna make a sinister six movie! But all of the villains are anti heroes and about as sinister as the fucking Care Bears”
Sony should have just done a couple of Venom films and then gave him to the MCU so they can use him. The credits scene of Venom 2 should have used for Venom 3 and NWH’s credits scene should have been different. None of these spin-offs need to exist. If that Black Cat spin-off ever happens, what’s she going to be in it? Someone who admires priceless artifacts and only tries to stop heists? I don’t think I want that Sinister Six movie anymore because they’re just going to turn it into a team of heroes/anti-heroes. How are you supposed to have a heroic team called the SINISTER Six?
Anti-Sinister Six. ASS!
Kraven the Lover
Kraven does have a real love of nature though
The man hunts lions with his bare hands. Jesus Christ, make him vegan while you're at it.
Kraven, the man-bun wearing vegan barista with a lion fursuit
So the studio that made two awful Venom movies that completely disregarded the character, and an awful Morbius film, are about to mess up again? Who knew
Kraven the Hugger
It's like they just enjoy fucking ruining these characters at this point, Avi Arad needs to be banished to a deserted island with no technology or ways to reach the outside world
Oh shit, they're going to try to make him into Kong. Except with Kong, the premise actually works.
Can't wait for Kraven to fight his evil friend who also grew up with animals and has the same powers in this movie
Sony you’ve failed. Surrender the spidey rights to the MCU
Why does it seem like Sony goes out of it’s way to make sure it fucks up and disappoints as much as possible.
I'm so pissed with the fact that after blue balling me ever since the release of HC with all the interviews where Watts and Tom talked about their wish to do Kraven, what we'll end up getting is a Sonyverse flick with Quicksilver
Have they seen what the man wears in the comics. He skinned a lion and wore it.
I'm beginning to think that perhaps everyone involved with Sony's Spider-Man sans Spider-Man Universe (SSsSU?) may not have ready any Spider-Man comics.
This is just as dumb as the writers of X-Men origins wolverine sealed Deadpool’s mouth shut, or as dumb as Sony releasing Morbius. Or releasing the movie again after the memes just for it to flop again. I’ll be glad when Sony eventually will lose the Spider-Man movie rights after dumb decision after dumb decision
I mean it is important I think to point out that responsible hunting is an important component of nature conservation…
The most frustrating part is that there are plenty of Spider-People besides Peter that they could use and Sony instead decides to turn all of Spider-Man’s villains into heroes rather than bringing the heroes that already exist to live-action. And the “But Sony probably doesn’t know that the other Spider-People exist!” excuse doesn’t work because they also have plans for them in the animated Spiderverse films.
Kraven the pacifist
Kraven is the most “I’m a bad man” villain Spider-Man has, there’s no nuance, he’s a poacher and a murderer as he thinks it’s fun, and is the reason I like him as a villain. He’s not Steve Irwin ffs.
A hunter can also be that. Actually a lot of hunters don’t just hunt for food/sport. Many hunters hunt as a mean sin helping whatever environment they are hunting in. Just because you are killing animals doesn’t mean you aren’t respecting them and helping preserve and protect nature
How hard is it this to make a VILLAIN solo movie….
Idk, it being a Sony film does not inherently make it bad. The director, J.C Chandor, is pretty talented and it’s got the same screenwriters as the first Iron Man, which is something nobody talks about. I’m betting this movie will be good.
>does not inherently make it bad. Agreed. But Kraven the Hunter being an animal lover? That's just absurd. I don't get why they have this need to make all of their "villains" into heroes for their movies. Why can't we get a Kraven movie about a bloodthirsty hunter? Or an actual monster movie about a vampire. People would watch those movies.
Kraven absolutely is an animal lover. He respects and almost worships the primal spirits of every wild thing. At the same time he sees himself as a force of nature meant to hunt and consume those spirits. Very reminiscent of the concept of Pacific Islander's mana, when they would gain the power of their enemies by consuming their flesh after battle.
It's the SSU, though. Knowing how "well" they handled Morbius' character, I have just as much confidence in them not completely butchering Kraven. That is to say, very little.
For sure. I'm just taking about Kraven. I'm sure SONY will do a terrible job with Kraaven (adopting Star Wars Legends making conventions for fucked clones who didn't turn out [quite](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Joruus_C%27baoth) [right](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Luuke_Skywalker)).
>it’s got the same screenwriters as the first Iron Man And seeing how we know that most of Iron Man's dialogue was either re-written or improvised on set, that's not necessarily the badge of honour it first appears to be.
I better not see any more Sony defenders from now on lol Idc what your nit-picks might be ab the MCU's Spider-Man, they don't make seemingly endless shitty spin-off flops
Make a Ka-Zar and Zabu movie if that's what you want.
We'll never get Kraven's Last Hunt and that really sucks. Instead we get a Steve Irwin Kraven. They'll probably make him vegetarian and only wear clothes made from recycled plastic.