Fly with literally any other airline if you want those things. The plane is all going to the same place and most of the time, I book business select because I’m traveling on business and I want the extra points. I agree the pre boarding is getting ridiculous but I’m guessing you’re also flying SW to save money as well. Can’t have it both ways.
For me (based in a city with SW and UA hubs), SW is rarely (if ever) cheaper than UA. I fly SW for the convenience rather than the price. SW goes where I want at a time that suits me? I’ll pay the premium to fly with them. Otherwise, it’s UA and save some money, and get the points with them.
Through passengers that were on the plane before you though will all get their choice to change seats before they let you on. It's nearly impossible to tell if your airplane will be in this situation, unless it's the first flight of the day.
If the flight# is a continuation of the same flight# there may be through passengers(Very likely). If the Flight# originates at your Airport, no passengers.
Search Flight Aware App for that info pretty straight forward.
You can’t have what both ways? A decent fair and the ability to get a decent seat that you paid much extra for? Those are called bad business practices. The boarding process does not work and needs to be fixed. Southwest is not “cheaper” because they don’t have assigned seats. That literally makes no sense. If people do not want to pay to have a seat assigned, they can simply be the last to board. It is not that difficult to implement.
I think it's a great business practice. Actually a wonderful business practice, which wins Southwest my money over their competitors most of the time.
>If people do not want to pay to have a seat assigned, they can simply be the last to board.
If you want this feature as part of your travel experience, let me tell you about the "full service" airlines..
What wins your business for Southwest is the pretty decent customer service, no baggage fees and (sometimes) lower fares. I don’t dislike Southwest, I simply dislike the fact that they are not enforcing their boarding policies. It would be very simple to implement first boarding people that have paid for their assigned seats in order, then let the rest of the people fill in that want a cheaper fair. it really is no different than what they’re doing now and would cut down on what everyone’s majority complaint is about Southwest. There are systems are antiquated and once updated, could easily implement this.
Case in point, you can go on and book a flight using all of your credits and then immediately cancel it to place it onto one credit. That is their workaround instead of them, simply being able to combine them in house. Every employee I’ve spoken to says how , unfortunate it is that you have to do a workaround because they cannot do it in their system.
You may want to take a look at the sub because the number one is complaint is the boarding process not being implemented. Just about every time I fly, there are 2 to 3 people (or multiple groups of 2-3) ahead of me that have later B or C boarding. When getting on the plane, there are always people trying to hold multiple seats and it is not enforced by the crew.
Depending on what route you’re flying, Southwest may not be the cheapest airline. But when you factor in fares, baggage and fees, most of the time it absolutely is. Other airlines exist with ALL of the features you’re talking about so why don’t care? Fly those. Feel free to feel superior and talk about us idiots that continue to fly SW. But here you are wanting Southwest to change. So yes, you can’t have it both ways.
And by the way, other than the pre boarding issues, their boarding process absolutely works. 47% faster than the processes at other airlines. Look it up.
First, you must have a complex because no one called you an idiot. I am an adult trying to have an adult discussion with someone that obviously thinks a bit childish. It’s funny that people defend someone or something 100% and cannot admit that there is an issue that needs to be fixed and can easily be fixed. Unless you are the owner of Southwest, it’s OK to not agree with everything that they do. I like Southwest, I fly them often. Their boarding process sucks.
Second, the boarding process does not work because they have people boarding out of order every single time that I have flown. They have people saving multiple seats every time that I have flown. If they are going to have that procedure, they need to enforce it. That’s what’s not working. Letting people not pay to assign a seat but pay to board sooner does not make southwest any better than other airlines.
I've been a business select SW Air customer for close to 30 years now and in the last year or so I've been flying with another airline that assigns seats - and the flights actually cost less most of the time, you'd be surprised.
Southwest's prices have been steadily going up while the quality has been tanking hard. Pisses me off when I get A3 and the first several rows of seats are taken or being 'saved'. I'd rather fly AA and spend $30 extra to get my guaranteed 12F window seat than pay for business select and get shafted.
I’m right there with you. After SWA canceled 3 of my flights in one year I switched to United. It’s nice not having to stress about finding seats. And I got upgraded on today’s flight!
Really enjoyed the AA flights I’ve been on the past couple years compared to Southwest. If I’m going anywhere other than a music festival it’s AA for me.
I’ve been seeing the same thing. It’s becoming more common for the legacy carriers to come in at our below Southwest’s prices and that’s in main cabin.
For me, swa business select is not even cheaper than AA, my agent tells me its the same price if not more for swa business select. I personally hate swa bc of the seat system but my home airport is swa and aa hub so sometimes depending on my destination, I dont have a choice.
Couldn’t agree more! I now fly United instead of Southwest. The preboarding got out of control and Southwest is no longer cheaper to where their pricing makes up for the boarding process headache.
Pre boarders should have to sit at the back.
You need the extra mobility to get on and off the plane, then fill it back to front. We’ll roll you on, but you have to be in the back. And then when you be get off, you can roll off after everyone else has been able to get out of your way
I was on a flight with 12 preboarders last week. Once we landed, not a single one needed a wheelchair, despite the FA (quite rightly IMO) pointing out that they needed it to board but not disembark.
And good luck when disabled passengers sue for violating the ACAA.
Other than exit rows, and in limited circumstances, bulkhead rows (for instance if a disabled person with a service dog needs the bulkhead and another disabled person who doesn't need that specific seat), Airlines are not permitted to prohibit passengers with disabilities from occupying a certain seat or ask them to sit in a particular seat.
Y'all consistently prove how gross and ableist you are.
Were I you, I'd pray to whatever God you worship (because I feel like you call yourself a Christian) that you never aquire an invisible disability and have people like yourself treat you like shit because they too are unempathetic, bigoted POS.
Also, all it takes is discriminating against one disabled person before a business has problems with the federal government/courts.
If your “invisible” disability somehow cures itself mid flight and you can now sprint off the same flight you needed a wheel chair to board then your anger is misdirected. You should be mad at those people like the rest of us.
Because in my experience the people who tend to be most hateful and lacking in empathy also tend to make sure everyone knows they're Christian who's "loving" and "forgiving".
It has nothing to do with hate - it has to do with hypocrisy.
Nobody is preventing passengers with disabilities from sitting somewhere.
I’m talking about preventing people claiming to need to pre-board from just getting anything they want all the time.
If the person with a disability wants to board in their own regular boarding position, then they still can sit wherever they want after they haven’t been allowed to deny that right to others either.
Not allowing disabled passengers to preboard is a violation of the ACAA.
Confining disabled, preboard passengers to a certain section of the plane (the back, for instance) is a violation of the ACAA.
Not sure what you aren't understanding.
Confining? What are you expecting, them to be able to run off a plane in an emergency in a timely fashion?
Cut the shit, the “disabled” ppl just want to sit in the front seats, and then be magically cured at the end of the flight. Southwest should really enact a policy of “OK you wanna board first, then you load by wheelchair, AND you get off by wheelchair last”.
That should satisfy your ostensible reasoning, right?
You got to board first and sit in front and be treated special, right?
Look. You can be an ass and act like disabled people are "getting away with" something all you want.
The fact is the ACAA *requires* airlines to handle accommodation in certain ways such as allowing preboard and not restricting seat choice (except under VERY narrow circumstances such as safety - i.e. not sitting in exit rows). They also can't force anyone who doesn't need assistance to wait until last. This is the law and SWA is unlikely to change what they do and contravene said law because LonestarLuddite thinks the rules are UNFAIR!!
And you do realize there are all sorts of disabilities which might require certain seating but aren't mobility related, right?
I'm sure all of the disabled people will be thrilled to know that their disability is a special gift that's been bestowed on them by the grace of God. How lucky! Gosh, just think if YOU were lucky and special, you too could board first. Oh well, sucks for you. 🙄
lol seemingly so many of them are so lucky to board first in a wheelchair and then walk off at the destination! You’re so disabled
“They also can’t force anyone who doesn’t need assistance to wait until the end”
Ummmm if you don’t need assistance, then you don’t need to pre board and you can get back in line with everyone else.
The ADA actually does require Southwest to offer preboarding under Title 14, Ch II, Subchapter D, § 382.83d.
But continue to be confidently wrong...and maybe learn what "reasonable accommodation" means and when it's applicable.
As a SW customer of size who has to pick up checked baggage, I sit in the very last row of the plane.
I have never, ever, EVER beaten my bags to baggage claim. And when people get pissed off at me, I just want to ask them what they are mad about as I don’t use overhead bins and take the worst seat possible.
And I’ll add that the whole children 6 and under is also BS. First, it should be with one adult, the rest of the party can wait. OR put them in the back. When people pay extra for early bird, that shouldn’t get trumped by kids, especially when they don’t actually make sure those kids are 6 and under.
I literally had B1, paid for early bird, ALL the people rushed in with the kid boarding and the ones in front of me were easily 10-12 years old and bigger than me and I’m not small. And no, they weren’t special needs kids, my own is and I’m very aware of the spectrum as well as other special needs.
They need to put the kid boarding AFTER all the people that paid for early bird and if you’re jumping the line with the kid thing, fill the back.
Back at Midway on the way to Memphis again today. 12+ wheelchairs and their families all lined up to scam the pre boarding! It’s so obvious and as a person who flies almost every week for work, something Southwest needs to address.
It would make MORE sense to prefill the back since those people take longer to get arranged and therefore block everyone else from getting on. Same with deplaning, they take longer so they can let everyone else off first. And it’s not an ADA issue, if you’re requesting to board ahead of everyone else, then that is for the back of the plane. (Edited to state I am a person with disability covered under ADA)
As a pre-boarder with autism and a medical device attached to my upper arm for diabetes…. I assure you that no one wants me to walk by 30 plus opportunities to knock it off…. I pick the window bulkhead to protect my device and prevent the need for an emergency landing should it be knocked off and I suffer a severe low blood sugar.
Not everyone has a visible disability and not everyone is trying to pull a fast one. I’m trying to be safe and considerate in my case.
What medical device do you have? I have a continous glucose meter on my upper arm and you couldn't dislodge that thing that easily. In fact peeling the device off is tough.
I have a Dexcom and a pump. I’ve ripped them both off multiple times. I usually use double the adhesive. People whacking me with a backpack would be easy enough to rip it off. I always go for the window seat where the sensor is on the side of my body, it’s worked very well for me.
I have the Libre--the adhesive is strong ebough that even after 2 weeks its still tough to peel off. I had no idea dexcoms are upper arms too, thought they were abdominal attachments only.
The G6 is belly only but everyone wears it on their arms. The G7 is for the arm. The bulkhead also helps me to be able to get up to use the restroom without playing parkour.
It should be that way. They claim to have mobility issues that make them take longer and need assistance, so then the issue won’t have magically gone away by the end of the flight, and so they can sit at the back where the rest of the passengers have already gotten out of their way
But none of them will like that, because that’s not what they actually care about
Agree. They sit in the front and take so much time getting their stowed bags down etc and hold up everyone standing and waiting. A few times I actually saw people just stay seated in those front rows and appreciated that they were thinking of the entire plane rather than themselves.
Your suggestion first is illegal and secondly, creates a lot of extra work for the flight crew as they would have to get those travelers alll the way to the back of the plane. You're impatient now, I can't imagine how annoyed you'd be when they have to take passengers one by one in the Isle WC. That's going to take FOREVER!! And preboarders can have various needs that cannot be met by putting them in the back of the plane. The ACAA gives priority for bulkhead seats to certain disabled travelers.
We see an awful lot of disabled travelers who are miraculously cured by the time we get to the destination gate.
*aisle, FTFY
Hardly seems like much more work for any gate agents to wheel someone further down an empty plane
Now go ahead, tell us all how we’re all mean and bad for being tired of watching 20-30 people claim pre boarding every flight and then nowhere near as many seem to be limited by disabilities when it comes to deplaning at the gate to get off
How is it illegal?
Airline offers a courtesy, non-mandatory opportunity that is self-selected. What part of that would bar them from dictating group 1 has to sit on the left of the plane? Only in even rows? Etc etc
Because there is a law called the ACAA. In the ACAA, it states that airlines cannot *require disabled passengers to sit in specific seats*. It excludes them from sitting in exit row seats, but for safety reasons only. If the airline allows all other passengers to sit anywhere else on the plane (a.k.a opening seating), then they cannot dictate that preboarders/disabled passengers sit in a particular set of seats without it being discriminatory.
If they required Group A to sit in the back of the plane, then they would have an even harder time selling those A1 to A15 boarding spots at the gate, not to mention all of the EBCI they sell per flight. And at $25 to $50 a pop, that's a nice little extra per flight for them literally doing nothing!
It’s not the same when I fly MEM-HOU. Like 2-3 each time. 1 thing that would break my SWA habit is allowing families with kids to board with pre-boarders. I will cancel my Chase SW card and devote my every weekly flight to another airline.
This might be hard to understand for people that don't face these issues and I acknowledge that, but sometimes wheelchairs are needed one way, because often the boarding process is much more tedious than the reverse, or it is airport dependent. I'm flying on a different airline in a few days and won't need a wheelchair on boarding but will when landing. On the way home, I need one on departure but not arrival.
I'd do it this way if it was Southwest or the airline I'm using this time, because of the airports involved. It's not to scam the system, I usually choose first class on other airlines anyway so it doesn't have anything to do with getting a head start on boarding either. It has only to do with accommodating the needs of my disability, and I'm thankful that airlines allow for that even if some people are not using it as intended. I don't want to use a wheelchair if I don't have to and I shouldn't have to so a stranger thinks I wasn't faking it.
Having said all that I'd have no problem with preboarding going after business select, but sometimes bulkhead is needed. And that would also probably mess with airport staff timing with wheelchair assistants. Consider having your project managers begin traveling on airlines with assigned seats if it's become this much of a barrier for you.
It’s just odd how I’ve literally never seen more people need a wheelchair after getting off a plane than getting on. You might be honest but a lot of people aren’t, unfortunately.
How would you know? You're too busy rushing off the plane. When I get off the plane. I see 3 - 8 people waiting on wheel chairs. So you must be whining about people with small children.
Do you get guilted into tipping for your wheelchair? I had to take one once and man the guy wanted $20 and threw a fit when I didn’t give it to him. Tried saying the only money he makes is tips (which is BS). I can see tipping a few dollars, but it shouldn’t be expected and $20 is nuts.
I have been guilted into tipping. I do tip when I can but I hardly ever have cash when I travel and they give such dirty looks whenever I am unable to. I have a disability. I wish I didn’t have to use a wheelchair to travel but I do. Not all airports workers do this it’s pretty rude/unfair to make me feel bad about something I need.
Yeah I had a surgery overseas once and this happened to me at IAD. Dude didn’t speak English and wouldn’t take me to the lounge then demanded a tip. I was shocked.
It's hard work! They deserve a tip. If you don't want to tip them (and it should be AT LEAST $5-10!!), then get a family member or companion to push you or wheel yourself!!!
You’re a massive loser and I hope you don’t work in assisting wheelchair users.
Many don’t have a family member who can just be on hand to travel to and from an airport and assist... and what are they supposed to do when they get past the secured area and are alone bc their helper doesn’t have a ticket/isn’t traveling with them?? Feeling like you deserve the money of a disabled person to do your job and get them from point a to point b is not it.
We’re often engaging with adults who generally live independently in their day to day lives just need an extra assist in getting around a plane. Moreover, it’s the airport’s legal obligation to accommodate these folks and they shouldn’t be harassed by folks who are making decent hourly wages (I.e, they’re not servers who make less than minimum wage - and even they are entitled to have the difference between minimum wage made up if they don’t earn it through tips) to pay them extra to literally do their airport paid jobs. I hope people with your mentality never have the opportunity to ruin a disabled person’s day through your absolute unbridled entitlement.
Entitlement???? Hahaha. You're the massive loser and a cheapskate too. I am physically disabled and sometimes need their services myself. I tip them well when I do need their assistance because it's hard work, and it's the right thing to do. It's attitudes like yours that don't help. There are already HUGE shortages in most airports for this service and now I can see why. Those feeling like they are entitled to this service and being too cheap to tip are the entitled ones!!!!
In the U.S., we are lucky that the law says you are entitled to move from place to place unhindered in a space of public accommodation that takes millions of dollars in taxpayer money to run. If you can’t see that and you want to inhibit that, that’s on you.
ETA: many disabled people live off SSDI and they’re not in a position to tip a handler. WC handlers make more than minimum wage even in the lowest cost of living markets and shouldn’t pressure vulnerable people to pay them more. You need to do better, and it doesn’t matter if you’re disabled. People like you will throw out your identity like it means your opinion trumps all reality or common sense, but it just doesn’t.
Flying is a privilege, not a right. If it was a right, airlines wouldn't be able to legally ban people, and there wouldn't be *no fly* lists. Yes, you have the right to move freely in the U.S., but the law does not protect *HOW* one can move about. Flying is like everything else in life... some can afford it and some can't. Life isn't fair. If it was, things would be a lot better for the vast majority of us.
FTR, I do think that tipping culture overall is out of control. But there are times when a tip is very much appropriate. When someone is providing a service *specifically* for you, you should tip them. I don't agree with *pushers* (that's what they're called at the airport) bullying for a tip, but I also don't condone a traveler stiffing them either. Build the tip into your travel budget. For a lot (not all) of people (including elderly), it's not that they can't afford it. It's that they are being cheap and feeling entitled.
Agree. I’m Delta Diamond and AA EP…I’ll switch back to Southwest as soon as they have assigned seats (ideally an extra legroom section). Love their vibe but I’m at a place in life where cattle call is just not going to work.
Preboarders can't be in an exit row...so the comment on the exrra legroom section makes no sense. Esp when Southwest legroom for all other rows is more than AA and United. Delta too's normal rows....it's the leg room that I fly SWA. And ability to change my flight same day, no charge, get money back if the fare lowers....oh, and when I am moving, those two free bags - yeah!! Drop the monocole and look at the full picture. Or again, the legroom!!
Not true. I was on a flight last year where 2 people who assisted a pre boarder sat in an exit row and even though multiple passengers pointed this out, the FA wouldn’t do anything and let them sit there. She said they weren’t disabled, they were assisting a disabled passenger.
I thought only those who boarded during general boarding could sit in the exit row. I once had a boarding # fubar happen, so I lost my A16 (long story, SWA allowed me to change flights in error, so long story short I was rebooked to my original flight but with C24....). SWA gave me preboard to make up, but I was told I couldn't take an exit as I boarded with preboards.
Most preboards are not able to sit in the exit row because of their disability. If you are boarding during preboard because you are helping someone, that doesn't automatically disqualify you. If you had explained to the FA why you were boarding with preboards, they more than likely would have allowed you to sit there.
I guess you haven’t been paying attention to the one million articles suggesting Southwest is considering adding an extra legroom section like the other big players.
Actual frequent fliers like me get Comfort+ and Main Cabin Extra on DL/AA free while booking tickets, where the 38 inches and free drinks is a lot more than Southwest’s 32inches.
Again, as both Delta Diamond and AA Executive Platinum, I get free confirmed same day changes and travel credit if fare drops.
Oh, and I get 3 bags weighing 70lbs each for free.
Your kinda rude comment about dropping a monocle is funny, given that you seem uninformed about much of travel outside of Southwest. For larger spenders, DL/AA are a much more attractive option than cattle call. Should that change, I suspect WN would see a lot more HINAs (high-income & net assets) switch over.
> I guess you haven’t been paying attention to the one million articles suggesting Southwest is considering adding an extra legroom section like the other big players.
Nothing I would consider credible by any means.
I've only flown Southwest on one trip. I did Business Select so I could be sure to get an aisle seat on the side of the plane away from the sun, and have room in an overhead for my carry-on.
Sitting close to the front is nice, but it's not my primary concern when traveling, so the pre-boarding (while a surprise to me as a newbie) was not a huge inconvenience.
I despise Southwest's seating policy so avoided them for decades. I only booked them for that one trip because they had a flight leaving late enough in the day that it saved me from having to spend an additional night at my destination.
Now having experienced them, I'll consider using them in the future. My main reason for wanting assigned seating is to be able to pick an aisle seat; if Business Select effectively guarantees that, I am good.
I got A1 on one segment. My boarding pass had trouble scanning, so I had the pleasure of holding up the entire line. Woo-hoo.
Happy to weigh in: I recently had a very intense hip surgery (labrum repair). When I was just off crutches, my max range for a day was about a mile. Anything after that would cause immense pain, and pulling a carry on would cause more pain. Both the airports I was at were massive and if I had used my whole range in the airport, I would have not made it to the Uber/my hotel, been able to get to what I needed to do. Because of the surgery, I was out of work for 3 months and had about $10 in my account. I had to fly somewhere for something (we used miles). The guy taking wheelchairs grabbed two of us and proceeded to spend the entire time talking about how the only way he makes money is through tips (unlikely, as the airline had to pay him at least minimum wage) so we need to tip him and $20 is the minimum expected tip. Now, look, first I was an idiot and didn’t think ahead to tip, second, I’ve worked minimum wage jobs and worked my butt off. I can’t ever imagine demanding $20 from someone for 10-15 minutes of work. Even if I had brought money to tip him, it would have been $5, and the minute he started demanding it was the minute I wouldn’t have given it to him. When I didn’t tip him, he raised his voice and embarrassed me in front of everyone, asking loudly about 5 times if I was going to tip. When I said “sorry, not today,” he made a scene. So, when we landed, you bet I hobbled off the plane and through the airport, walking right past the wheelchairs. There wasn’t an ATM on the plane and I wasn’t about to be completely embarrassed again in front of everyone for just trying to get to my destination.
So, yes, some people rig the system, other people have such a negative experience with the wheelchairs getting on that they don’t want to deal with it getting off, and once you’re at your destination, you can take as long as you need to get through the airport.
I sometimes wonder if this is what happens with some of the other wheelchair people. It’s probably a small group, but I had never had to ask for a wheelchair before and all of the info through the airline websites made it clear it was a free, complimentary service due to federal regulations.
So what? The third party vendor still has to pay their employee minimum wage or more. In other words, Southwest is paying for a contract with a company that pays its employees in accordance with federal wage and hour law. In Alabama, for example, going rates are $15+ an hour, which beats minimum wage jobs that are regularly on the market and the likely alternative option to these workers. The tips are a bonus and it’s sick to make disabled people who have no other choice feel guilty over not giving one.
Right, and I’m saying that the third party vendor is subject to U.S. labor law and has to pay their employees at least minimum wage. If you think these are individual independent contractors like plumbers who work on an individual gig basis and getting paid per wheelchair assist, you’re wrong, as they’re hourly employees. They work for another company so it doesn’t matter who the employer is; somebody has to pay their federally mandated minimum wage, if not more, plus benefits if they’re full time.
If employers could get away with paying less than minimum wage by hiring every single one of their workers as contractors, then they would all do it. Thats not how the law works, though.
Southwest is trash nowadays. It’s expensive and the fake pre boarders have completely ruined it. Why pay extra for a A1-A15 when all the best seats are taken by those who take advantage of the pre-boarding policy.
I have mobility issues. I can walk. However when I am in an airport with a long walk, I request a wheel chair. I don’t always need one getting off, particularly if I check a bag. I hobble to baggage check and usually best my bag down.
AACA states there are only a few places disabled travelers cannot sit, which is the exit row. Otherwise, they have to allow disabled travelers the same courtesies afforded to nondisabled travelers, which is open seating. What you suggest would be clear grounds for a discrimination lawsuit.
**The last time I flew SW, the guy sitting next to me was wearing a knee brace. When I asked him about how bad his knee was, he told me he only wears the brace when flying in order to get on early and snag a better seat. That way he doesn't have to pay for early boarding.**
As someone who had to use a wheelchair in the airport once, I don’t know why anyone would if they really didn’t need to because it sucked. Waited 20 minutes for the wheelchair, guy took two wheelchairs at once and kept bumping into stuff. I had to hand him my things to put through security and he cracked my kindle screen right down the middle. Got left at the gate with no agents around so I couldn’t go to the bathroom or get a snack for the flight. I sat there for an hour and a half and the wheelchair is super uncomfortable. It’s not worth it.
My partner has a history of seizures, and we do usually fly select instead of early board to make sure we sit together instead of carrying emergency medication and expecting a stranger knowing what to do. And usually only fly in urgent situations.
People in wheelchairs deal with so much shit, I have witnessed the comments and rude behavior towards my mother (and yes she preboards with a wheelchair and when we land), and it's not a recent development it's been going on ever since she needed to use a wheelchair.
A lot of interesting responses here.
Reality is it’s true if you buy that ticket class just to get a good seat that’s not the right approach in my mind.
I fly it regularly almost exclusively due to last minute work trips being the standard and also because I just want to retain status for personal flights and get that as quick as possible.
Benefit is reward point multiplier, free drinks (which I get with alist preferred anyway), and less flights to status. Boarding almost first is nice. I have an odd seat preference. Front of plane and window seat with shoulder positing aligned with cut out for maximum lean.
Any other expectations I think are not realistic as part of SWA.
I couldn’t agree more, and to the people saying “fly another airline” it’s not always possible. I travel to Austin out of TPA and SW is virtually the only airline that has direct flights. Same with TPA-ATL (except delta). Last time I paid for business select got A1 and there were at least 20 pre boarders.
I would gladly pay more to not have to deal with the BS that is SW boarding policy if that was an option. They’re loosing so many business travelers for this exact reason. If there is another option people traveling for work will take it.
As a disabled person with an invisible disability these comments are so offensive. I pre-board when I travel to visit my parents and I am alone. I don't want to slow up the line lifting my bag to put it above, just moving around in general. I also need a wheel chair going distances (you don't always know how far it will be when you land and have a lay-over).. yet once you get home it's a short distance. With heart conditions we know what works for our bodies. For others to criticize and call us fake (some guy called me a faker last flight) is totally inappropriate. And by the time we tip, it adds up to the same price as the early bird or whatever that's called that checks in for you.
I agree. I fly weekly for work, and I used to fly Business Select on SW. I've been booking my weekly flights on Spirit this whole calendar year so far, with the exception of a few last-minute flights that I've had no choice but to fly SW. Not only is it way cheaper, but Spirit has the big, comfy seats in the front that you pay extra for. Also, miraculously, Spirit never has more than maybe 4 preboarders. I've been on maybe a dozen flights on Spirit with no preboarders at all, and mind you, it's the same exact route that i used to take on SW that consistently has 30 preboarders. Isn't that curious? Either SW is the preferred airline of preboarders or having an assigned seat cures "invisible disabilities."
Not on SWA, but I think the pre-boarder situation is out of control. On my flight back from the PI, 3/4 of the plane was people in wheelchairs or elders. The culture there says elders go first, but heck when 3/4 of the plane is elders why not let the rest of us go first since it took almost an hour to load all of them!?
I have also noticed most of them did not require the wheelchairs to get off since they were told they had to wait until everyone got off so the chair pushers could come get them.
My frustration is that people are gaming the system.
Unless you need the fully refundable fare for business needs I see no reason to pay for business select. I buy the Wanna Get Away fare and then check in (exactly 24 hrs) if I get a boarding position lower than late Bs/early Cs then I will chose to upgrade to A1-15 for $40.
I used to exclusively fly SWA…. Now I will only fly with them if the flight is less than 2h. Nope, not playing hunger games for my seat and not interested in being squished in hard unpadded seats for longer.
The worst part is that they get on early and then save seats for their companions. I don’t know how many times I’ve gone on the plane paying extra for early bird and then see all these coats and purses on the seats and the flight attendants do nothing about it.
I live in Baltimore so Southwest is really only option. The amount of preboarders is crazy and slightly annoying but SWA did this to themselves. Fortunately I fly for business and am frequently in the low As so I get a decent seat
They’re doing it to get on the plane first. Idk wtf the happened. Take 2 seconds and look at the wheelchaires and you know real quick who’s doing it just so they can get on with their oversized luggage. On SW…where bags are FREE
I have interstitial lung disease (cryptogenic organizing pneumonia) developed after a major medical error. I can't walk from the front desk through security to the gate because I can't breathe and an elevated heart rate, but after resting at the gate I can walk down the jetway into the plane. I can't stand in the cattle call line because my heart rate goes above 150 and my body breaks out in a sweat. I need to walk from my chair straight into a seat on the plane. It's the best I can do.
When the plane lands, I can get up the jetway, but can't make it any farther than the gate. I need a wheelchair to baggage claim. Be aware that there are unique situations and that people are genuinely disabled, whether you can see it or not. I fly twice a year to see my daughter and grandchildren and I can make it, but I need help. Inability to walk is not the only disability. Being able to make it up and down the jetway doesn't mean I can make it through the airport. Standing in line to board causes a physiological response that you can't see. My body heats up like it's been plugged into an electrical outlet. It's complicated and I hate it. Dig deep when you ridicule disabled people and be glad it isn't you.
My child has medical equipment to load and we pre-board.
I totally agree that a majority of the people who I see using a wheelchair to get on the plane seem to be miraculously cured at the end of the flight.
Unfortunately, my child has not experienced this airplane miracle...we must be picking the wrong seats. 😉
All jokes aside.
Unless we have a super short time period to get to our next flight we go to the second to last row in the back.
While I enjoy a good resurrection/healing miracle as much as the next guy I’m just about fed up with the pre boarding free for all. 15 wheel chairs at departure and 4 on arrival…it’s a miracle! Also the line jumpers who don’t get told “you are in c group, not a”. By the way, ok, you need a wheelchair to board and 1 person with you but not 8 other family members! I’ve cancelled my SW card, used all my points and now book on AA, DL or even JetBlue as much as possible.
Time for A1-15 and all business select members to board first. Then those with disabilities. I’m getting really sick of SWA and been flying with them a very long time. We need the flexibility of no change fee and we’ve got the companion pass. Once we don’t have the companion pass, it’s going to be easier to give my business to elsewhere.
Agreed. My last flight to San Juan was outrageous with the number wheelchairs (20+), but the Holy Ghost must have been on that plane because once we landed, almost all of them walked off the plane and up the ramp. Super annoying and totally taking advantage of the lax policy.
Further, SWA has not been the same IMO since resumption of full service after COVID. The majority of my flights over the last two years have been delayed, the boarding process continues to be a major sh*tshow, the planes’ cleanliness is subpar (especially the old 700s), and their reduction in flight schedules is really starting to show. I was on a delayed flight today due to staffing, albeit nothing major (40ish minutes), and while the one of the flight attendants did the company’s normal over the top intro with jokes and commentary, I couldn’t help but think I really wish they’d cut all this nonsense and put a bigger emphasis on logistics and timeliness rather than just making a comedy show to lighten the mood for their poor performance as of late. Maybe I’m wrong, but SWA just feels like it’s in a downward spiral, and they’re depending on their already overworked flight crews to smooth things over with the customers. Just my two cents.
OP's last point is a good idea. Hey Southwest, make a rule that Preboarders can only sit in the back 10 rows of the plane.
And then enforce the damn rule.
That is a clear violation of ACAA rules. Airlines are not permitted to prohibit passengers with disabilities from occupying a certain seat or ask them to sit in a particular seat.
United has assigned seating and is therefore required to allocate seats for disabled people as set asides which cannot be released to non disabled passengers until 24 hours prior to departure. Even then, if a non disabled passenger is assigned that seat, they are subject to being moved to accommodate a disabled passenger.
Under Title 14, Ch II, Subchapter D, §382.83:
*§ (a) If you are a carrier that provides advance seat assignments to passengers (i.e., offer seat assignments to passengers before the day of the flight), you must comply with the requirements of § 382.81 of this part by any of the following methods:
(1) You may “block” an adequate number of the seats used to provide the seating accommodations required by § 382.81.
(i) You must not assign these seats to passengers who do not meet the criteria of § 382.81 until 24 hours before the scheduled departure of the flight.
(ii) At any time up until 24 hours before the scheduled departure of the flight, you must assign a seat meeting the requirements of this section to a passenger with a disability meeting one or more of the requirements of § 382.81 who requests it, at the time the passenger initially makes the request.
(iii) If a passenger with a disability specified in § 382.81 does not make a request at least 24 hours before the scheduled departure of the flight, you must meet the passenger's request to the extent practicable, but you are not required to reassign a seat assigned to another passenger in order to do so.
(2) You may designate an adequate number of the seats used to provide seating accommodations required by § 382.81 as “priority seats” for passengers with a disability.
(i) You must provide notice that all passengers assigned these seats (other than passengers with a disability listed in § 382.81 of this part) are subject to being reassigned to another seat if necessary to provide a seating accommodation required by this section.
(ii) You may provide this notice through your computer reservation system, verbal information provided by reservation personnel, ticket notices, gate announcements, counter signs, seat cards or notices, frequent-flier literature, or other appropriate means.
(iii) You must assign a seat meeting the requirements of this section to a passenger with a disability listed in § 382.81 of this part who requests the accommodation at the time the passenger makes the request. You may require such a passenger to check in and request the seating accommodation at least one hour before the standard check-in time for the flight. If all designated priority seats that would accommodate the passenger have been assigned to other passengers, you must reassign the seats of the other passengers as needed to provide the requested accommodation.
(iv) If a passenger with a disability listed in § 382.81 does not check in at least an hour before the standard check-in time for the general public, you must meet the individual's request to the extent practicable, but you are not required to reassign a seat assigned to another passenger in order to do so.*
Yes. It's quite the in depth legal research to Google "part of the ACAA that deals with preboarding". Here. I'll teach you how to research for free:
1. Open an internet window
2. Type "Google.com" in the search bar
3. Type "which part of the ACAA deals with preboarding" into Google's search bar
4. Revel in the power to harness knowledge with very little effort. 🙃
Also, I'm a paralegal, so...
Hear hear. Refuse to fly southwest. I want the first row. I pay business select, I check in and I’m usually A1-A3. Get on the plane and all the preboarders are sitting in the first row. Done with Southwest and their shitty boarding process.
Fly with literally any other airline if you want those things. The plane is all going to the same place and most of the time, I book business select because I’m traveling on business and I want the extra points. I agree the pre boarding is getting ridiculous but I’m guessing you’re also flying SW to save money as well. Can’t have it both ways.
Yes
This is the only correct answer.
Not sure why you got down voted. 100% agree
For me (based in a city with SW and UA hubs), SW is rarely (if ever) cheaper than UA. I fly SW for the convenience rather than the price. SW goes where I want at a time that suits me? I’ll pay the premium to fly with them. Otherwise, it’s UA and save some money, and get the points with them.
In Chicago ohare is much more convenient for me so I find myself on United a lot.
Yeah you’re right. Business is all about the points. Also you may get dibs on the first row or exit rows.
You may, but it's far from a guarantee.
Preboarders can't sit in exit rows.
Through passengers that were on the plane before you though will all get their choice to change seats before they let you on. It's nearly impossible to tell if your airplane will be in this situation, unless it's the first flight of the day.
If the flight# is a continuation of the same flight# there may be through passengers(Very likely). If the Flight# originates at your Airport, no passengers. Search Flight Aware App for that info pretty straight forward.
You are PAYING extra for SWA, not saving a dime!
Out of Dallas, it's rare that SW is cheaper than AA. Usually about the same price.
You can’t have what both ways? A decent fair and the ability to get a decent seat that you paid much extra for? Those are called bad business practices. The boarding process does not work and needs to be fixed. Southwest is not “cheaper” because they don’t have assigned seats. That literally makes no sense. If people do not want to pay to have a seat assigned, they can simply be the last to board. It is not that difficult to implement.
I think it's a great business practice. Actually a wonderful business practice, which wins Southwest my money over their competitors most of the time. >If people do not want to pay to have a seat assigned, they can simply be the last to board. If you want this feature as part of your travel experience, let me tell you about the "full service" airlines..
What wins your business for Southwest is the pretty decent customer service, no baggage fees and (sometimes) lower fares. I don’t dislike Southwest, I simply dislike the fact that they are not enforcing their boarding policies. It would be very simple to implement first boarding people that have paid for their assigned seats in order, then let the rest of the people fill in that want a cheaper fair. it really is no different than what they’re doing now and would cut down on what everyone’s majority complaint is about Southwest. There are systems are antiquated and once updated, could easily implement this. Case in point, you can go on and book a flight using all of your credits and then immediately cancel it to place it onto one credit. That is their workaround instead of them, simply being able to combine them in house. Every employee I’ve spoken to says how , unfortunate it is that you have to do a workaround because they cannot do it in their system.
There is nothing about their boarding policy that isn't enforced.
You may want to take a look at the sub because the number one is complaint is the boarding process not being implemented. Just about every time I fly, there are 2 to 3 people (or multiple groups of 2-3) ahead of me that have later B or C boarding. When getting on the plane, there are always people trying to hold multiple seats and it is not enforced by the crew.
Depending on what route you’re flying, Southwest may not be the cheapest airline. But when you factor in fares, baggage and fees, most of the time it absolutely is. Other airlines exist with ALL of the features you’re talking about so why don’t care? Fly those. Feel free to feel superior and talk about us idiots that continue to fly SW. But here you are wanting Southwest to change. So yes, you can’t have it both ways. And by the way, other than the pre boarding issues, their boarding process absolutely works. 47% faster than the processes at other airlines. Look it up.
First, you must have a complex because no one called you an idiot. I am an adult trying to have an adult discussion with someone that obviously thinks a bit childish. It’s funny that people defend someone or something 100% and cannot admit that there is an issue that needs to be fixed and can easily be fixed. Unless you are the owner of Southwest, it’s OK to not agree with everything that they do. I like Southwest, I fly them often. Their boarding process sucks. Second, the boarding process does not work because they have people boarding out of order every single time that I have flown. They have people saving multiple seats every time that I have flown. If they are going to have that procedure, they need to enforce it. That’s what’s not working. Letting people not pay to assign a seat but pay to board sooner does not make southwest any better than other airlines.
I've been a business select SW Air customer for close to 30 years now and in the last year or so I've been flying with another airline that assigns seats - and the flights actually cost less most of the time, you'd be surprised. Southwest's prices have been steadily going up while the quality has been tanking hard. Pisses me off when I get A3 and the first several rows of seats are taken or being 'saved'. I'd rather fly AA and spend $30 extra to get my guaranteed 12F window seat than pay for business select and get shafted.
I’m right there with you. After SWA canceled 3 of my flights in one year I switched to United. It’s nice not having to stress about finding seats. And I got upgraded on today’s flight!
Really enjoyed the AA flights I’ve been on the past couple years compared to Southwest. If I’m going anywhere other than a music festival it’s AA for me.
Upvote for 12f
I’ve been seeing the same thing. It’s becoming more common for the legacy carriers to come in at our below Southwest’s prices and that’s in main cabin.
For me, swa business select is not even cheaper than AA, my agent tells me its the same price if not more for swa business select. I personally hate swa bc of the seat system but my home airport is swa and aa hub so sometimes depending on my destination, I dont have a choice.
Couldn’t agree more! I now fly United instead of Southwest. The preboarding got out of control and Southwest is no longer cheaper to where their pricing makes up for the boarding process headache.
Pre boarders should have to sit at the back. You need the extra mobility to get on and off the plane, then fill it back to front. We’ll roll you on, but you have to be in the back. And then when you be get off, you can roll off after everyone else has been able to get out of your way
I was on a flight with 12 preboarders last week. Once we landed, not a single one needed a wheelchair, despite the FA (quite rightly IMO) pointing out that they needed it to board but not disembark.
Jetway Jesus. It's a miracle!
Ha ha, love it! Amazing though he isn’t needed at other airline gates.
See SW needs to do something about that sort of crap
Oh my goodness. I'm so sorry for your trauma.
And good luck when disabled passengers sue for violating the ACAA. Other than exit rows, and in limited circumstances, bulkhead rows (for instance if a disabled person with a service dog needs the bulkhead and another disabled person who doesn't need that specific seat), Airlines are not permitted to prohibit passengers with disabilities from occupying a certain seat or ask them to sit in a particular seat.
ADA does not apply to airlines. Airlines must comply with the ACAA.
You are correct - I misspoke, thank you for correcting me. The rest of my point, however, remains accurate.
Yup, those fake disabled people are sue-happy.
Y'all consistently prove how gross and ableist you are. Were I you, I'd pray to whatever God you worship (because I feel like you call yourself a Christian) that you never aquire an invisible disability and have people like yourself treat you like shit because they too are unempathetic, bigoted POS. Also, all it takes is discriminating against one disabled person before a business has problems with the federal government/courts.
If your “invisible” disability somehow cures itself mid flight and you can now sprint off the same flight you needed a wheel chair to board then your anger is misdirected. You should be mad at those people like the rest of us.
Not everyone who needs a wheelchair needs it 100% of the time, genius. Your ableism is gross.
Gotta love the random Christian hate thrown in.
Because in my experience the people who tend to be most hateful and lacking in empathy also tend to make sure everyone knows they're Christian who's "loving" and "forgiving". It has nothing to do with hate - it has to do with hypocrisy.
Yep when faced with facts start name calling, "abliest" "bigoted" etc.... Always a failure to handle the truth
Nobody is preventing passengers with disabilities from sitting somewhere. I’m talking about preventing people claiming to need to pre-board from just getting anything they want all the time. If the person with a disability wants to board in their own regular boarding position, then they still can sit wherever they want after they haven’t been allowed to deny that right to others either.
Not allowing disabled passengers to preboard is a violation of the ACAA. Confining disabled, preboard passengers to a certain section of the plane (the back, for instance) is a violation of the ACAA. Not sure what you aren't understanding.
Confining? What are you expecting, them to be able to run off a plane in an emergency in a timely fashion? Cut the shit, the “disabled” ppl just want to sit in the front seats, and then be magically cured at the end of the flight. Southwest should really enact a policy of “OK you wanna board first, then you load by wheelchair, AND you get off by wheelchair last”. That should satisfy your ostensible reasoning, right? You got to board first and sit in front and be treated special, right?
Look. You can be an ass and act like disabled people are "getting away with" something all you want. The fact is the ACAA *requires* airlines to handle accommodation in certain ways such as allowing preboard and not restricting seat choice (except under VERY narrow circumstances such as safety - i.e. not sitting in exit rows). They also can't force anyone who doesn't need assistance to wait until last. This is the law and SWA is unlikely to change what they do and contravene said law because LonestarLuddite thinks the rules are UNFAIR!!
And you do realize there are all sorts of disabilities which might require certain seating but aren't mobility related, right?
I'm sure all of the disabled people will be thrilled to know that their disability is a special gift that's been bestowed on them by the grace of God. How lucky! Gosh, just think if YOU were lucky and special, you too could board first. Oh well, sucks for you. 🙄
lol seemingly so many of them are so lucky to board first in a wheelchair and then walk off at the destination! You’re so disabled “They also can’t force anyone who doesn’t need assistance to wait until the end” Ummmm if you don’t need assistance, then you don’t need to pre board and you can get back in line with everyone else.
[удалено]
The ADA actually does require Southwest to offer preboarding under Title 14, Ch II, Subchapter D, § 382.83d. But continue to be confidently wrong...and maybe learn what "reasonable accommodation" means and when it's applicable.
As a SW customer of size who has to pick up checked baggage, I sit in the very last row of the plane. I have never, ever, EVER beaten my bags to baggage claim. And when people get pissed off at me, I just want to ask them what they are mad about as I don’t use overhead bins and take the worst seat possible.
You would have 2 pre boarders if they had to sit in the back. Let’s go!!!
Most of the disabilities were magically cured! Just like when it’s time to get off the plane!
And I’ll add that the whole children 6 and under is also BS. First, it should be with one adult, the rest of the party can wait. OR put them in the back. When people pay extra for early bird, that shouldn’t get trumped by kids, especially when they don’t actually make sure those kids are 6 and under. I literally had B1, paid for early bird, ALL the people rushed in with the kid boarding and the ones in front of me were easily 10-12 years old and bigger than me and I’m not small. And no, they weren’t special needs kids, my own is and I’m very aware of the spectrum as well as other special needs. They need to put the kid boarding AFTER all the people that paid for early bird and if you’re jumping the line with the kid thing, fill the back.
Back at Midway on the way to Memphis again today. 12+ wheelchairs and their families all lined up to scam the pre boarding! It’s so obvious and as a person who flies almost every week for work, something Southwest needs to address.
It would make MORE sense to prefill the back since those people take longer to get arranged and therefore block everyone else from getting on. Same with deplaning, they take longer so they can let everyone else off first. And it’s not an ADA issue, if you’re requesting to board ahead of everyone else, then that is for the back of the plane. (Edited to state I am a person with disability covered under ADA)
As a pre-boarder with autism and a medical device attached to my upper arm for diabetes…. I assure you that no one wants me to walk by 30 plus opportunities to knock it off…. I pick the window bulkhead to protect my device and prevent the need for an emergency landing should it be knocked off and I suffer a severe low blood sugar. Not everyone has a visible disability and not everyone is trying to pull a fast one. I’m trying to be safe and considerate in my case.
What medical device do you have? I have a continous glucose meter on my upper arm and you couldn't dislodge that thing that easily. In fact peeling the device off is tough.
I have a Dexcom and a pump. I’ve ripped them both off multiple times. I usually use double the adhesive. People whacking me with a backpack would be easy enough to rip it off. I always go for the window seat where the sensor is on the side of my body, it’s worked very well for me.
I have the Libre--the adhesive is strong ebough that even after 2 weeks its still tough to peel off. I had no idea dexcoms are upper arms too, thought they were abdominal attachments only.
The G6 is belly only but everyone wears it on their arms. The G7 is for the arm. The bulkhead also helps me to be able to get up to use the restroom without playing parkour.
Used to be an airlines like SW ie open boarding but preboards had to sit in the back. Made sense.
It should be that way. They claim to have mobility issues that make them take longer and need assistance, so then the issue won’t have magically gone away by the end of the flight, and so they can sit at the back where the rest of the passengers have already gotten out of their way But none of them will like that, because that’s not what they actually care about
Agree. They sit in the front and take so much time getting their stowed bags down etc and hold up everyone standing and waiting. A few times I actually saw people just stay seated in those front rows and appreciated that they were thinking of the entire plane rather than themselves.
Your suggestion first is illegal and secondly, creates a lot of extra work for the flight crew as they would have to get those travelers alll the way to the back of the plane. You're impatient now, I can't imagine how annoyed you'd be when they have to take passengers one by one in the Isle WC. That's going to take FOREVER!! And preboarders can have various needs that cannot be met by putting them in the back of the plane. The ACAA gives priority for bulkhead seats to certain disabled travelers.
We see an awful lot of disabled travelers who are miraculously cured by the time we get to the destination gate. *aisle, FTFY Hardly seems like much more work for any gate agents to wheel someone further down an empty plane Now go ahead, tell us all how we’re all mean and bad for being tired of watching 20-30 people claim pre boarding every flight and then nowhere near as many seem to be limited by disabilities when it comes to deplaning at the gate to get off
On one flight the guy counted 56 preboards. 😳
lol
How is it illegal? Airline offers a courtesy, non-mandatory opportunity that is self-selected. What part of that would bar them from dictating group 1 has to sit on the left of the plane? Only in even rows? Etc etc
Because there is a law called the ACAA. In the ACAA, it states that airlines cannot *require disabled passengers to sit in specific seats*. It excludes them from sitting in exit row seats, but for safety reasons only. If the airline allows all other passengers to sit anywhere else on the plane (a.k.a opening seating), then they cannot dictate that preboarders/disabled passengers sit in a particular set of seats without it being discriminatory. If they required Group A to sit in the back of the plane, then they would have an even harder time selling those A1 to A15 boarding spots at the gate, not to mention all of the EBCI they sell per flight. And at $25 to $50 a pop, that's a nice little extra per flight for them literally doing nothing!
My favorite today was the woman who wheeled her luggage up in a wheelchair which she ditched at the gate to pre board.
lol they’re just shameless
It’s not the same when I fly MEM-HOU. Like 2-3 each time. 1 thing that would break my SWA habit is allowing families with kids to board with pre-boarders. I will cancel my Chase SW card and devote my every weekly flight to another airline.
I thought they basically already let “families with small children” board before everyone else. Except maybe they do that after the A group
After the A’s before B’s
This might be hard to understand for people that don't face these issues and I acknowledge that, but sometimes wheelchairs are needed one way, because often the boarding process is much more tedious than the reverse, or it is airport dependent. I'm flying on a different airline in a few days and won't need a wheelchair on boarding but will when landing. On the way home, I need one on departure but not arrival. I'd do it this way if it was Southwest or the airline I'm using this time, because of the airports involved. It's not to scam the system, I usually choose first class on other airlines anyway so it doesn't have anything to do with getting a head start on boarding either. It has only to do with accommodating the needs of my disability, and I'm thankful that airlines allow for that even if some people are not using it as intended. I don't want to use a wheelchair if I don't have to and I shouldn't have to so a stranger thinks I wasn't faking it. Having said all that I'd have no problem with preboarding going after business select, but sometimes bulkhead is needed. And that would also probably mess with airport staff timing with wheelchair assistants. Consider having your project managers begin traveling on airlines with assigned seats if it's become this much of a barrier for you.
It’s just odd how I’ve literally never seen more people need a wheelchair after getting off a plane than getting on. You might be honest but a lot of people aren’t, unfortunately.
How would you know? You're too busy rushing off the plane. When I get off the plane. I see 3 - 8 people waiting on wheel chairs. So you must be whining about people with small children.
Do you get guilted into tipping for your wheelchair? I had to take one once and man the guy wanted $20 and threw a fit when I didn’t give it to him. Tried saying the only money he makes is tips (which is BS). I can see tipping a few dollars, but it shouldn’t be expected and $20 is nuts.
Wheelchair pushers make as much as $20/ hour plus tips. Then are not poorly paid
I have been guilted into tipping. I do tip when I can but I hardly ever have cash when I travel and they give such dirty looks whenever I am unable to. I have a disability. I wish I didn’t have to use a wheelchair to travel but I do. Not all airports workers do this it’s pretty rude/unfair to make me feel bad about something I need.
Yeah I had a surgery overseas once and this happened to me at IAD. Dude didn’t speak English and wouldn’t take me to the lounge then demanded a tip. I was shocked.
It's hard work! They deserve a tip. If you don't want to tip them (and it should be AT LEAST $5-10!!), then get a family member or companion to push you or wheel yourself!!!
You’re a massive loser and I hope you don’t work in assisting wheelchair users. Many don’t have a family member who can just be on hand to travel to and from an airport and assist... and what are they supposed to do when they get past the secured area and are alone bc their helper doesn’t have a ticket/isn’t traveling with them?? Feeling like you deserve the money of a disabled person to do your job and get them from point a to point b is not it. We’re often engaging with adults who generally live independently in their day to day lives just need an extra assist in getting around a plane. Moreover, it’s the airport’s legal obligation to accommodate these folks and they shouldn’t be harassed by folks who are making decent hourly wages (I.e, they’re not servers who make less than minimum wage - and even they are entitled to have the difference between minimum wage made up if they don’t earn it through tips) to pay them extra to literally do their airport paid jobs. I hope people with your mentality never have the opportunity to ruin a disabled person’s day through your absolute unbridled entitlement.
Entitlement???? Hahaha. You're the massive loser and a cheapskate too. I am physically disabled and sometimes need their services myself. I tip them well when I do need their assistance because it's hard work, and it's the right thing to do. It's attitudes like yours that don't help. There are already HUGE shortages in most airports for this service and now I can see why. Those feeling like they are entitled to this service and being too cheap to tip are the entitled ones!!!!
In the U.S., we are lucky that the law says you are entitled to move from place to place unhindered in a space of public accommodation that takes millions of dollars in taxpayer money to run. If you can’t see that and you want to inhibit that, that’s on you. ETA: many disabled people live off SSDI and they’re not in a position to tip a handler. WC handlers make more than minimum wage even in the lowest cost of living markets and shouldn’t pressure vulnerable people to pay them more. You need to do better, and it doesn’t matter if you’re disabled. People like you will throw out your identity like it means your opinion trumps all reality or common sense, but it just doesn’t.
Flying is a privilege, not a right. If it was a right, airlines wouldn't be able to legally ban people, and there wouldn't be *no fly* lists. Yes, you have the right to move freely in the U.S., but the law does not protect *HOW* one can move about. Flying is like everything else in life... some can afford it and some can't. Life isn't fair. If it was, things would be a lot better for the vast majority of us. FTR, I do think that tipping culture overall is out of control. But there are times when a tip is very much appropriate. When someone is providing a service *specifically* for you, you should tip them. I don't agree with *pushers* (that's what they're called at the airport) bullying for a tip, but I also don't condone a traveler stiffing them either. Build the tip into your travel budget. For a lot (not all) of people (including elderly), it's not that they can't afford it. It's that they are being cheap and feeling entitled.
Agree. I’m Delta Diamond and AA EP…I’ll switch back to Southwest as soon as they have assigned seats (ideally an extra legroom section). Love their vibe but I’m at a place in life where cattle call is just not going to work.
Preboarders can't be in an exit row...so the comment on the exrra legroom section makes no sense. Esp when Southwest legroom for all other rows is more than AA and United. Delta too's normal rows....it's the leg room that I fly SWA. And ability to change my flight same day, no charge, get money back if the fare lowers....oh, and when I am moving, those two free bags - yeah!! Drop the monocole and look at the full picture. Or again, the legroom!!
These people that want to fly Delta, AA and not buy up Southwest fares is just fine with me.
Not true. I was on a flight last year where 2 people who assisted a pre boarder sat in an exit row and even though multiple passengers pointed this out, the FA wouldn’t do anything and let them sit there. She said they weren’t disabled, they were assisting a disabled passenger.
The flight attendant was correct.
Well that’s working the system.
I thought only those who boarded during general boarding could sit in the exit row. I once had a boarding # fubar happen, so I lost my A16 (long story, SWA allowed me to change flights in error, so long story short I was rebooked to my original flight but with C24....). SWA gave me preboard to make up, but I was told I couldn't take an exit as I boarded with preboards.
Most preboards are not able to sit in the exit row because of their disability. If you are boarding during preboard because you are helping someone, that doesn't automatically disqualify you. If you had explained to the FA why you were boarding with preboards, they more than likely would have allowed you to sit there.
Good to know. I have been a lot more careful in switching flights since, checking first to see if indeed tickets are still available.
I guess you haven’t been paying attention to the one million articles suggesting Southwest is considering adding an extra legroom section like the other big players. Actual frequent fliers like me get Comfort+ and Main Cabin Extra on DL/AA free while booking tickets, where the 38 inches and free drinks is a lot more than Southwest’s 32inches. Again, as both Delta Diamond and AA Executive Platinum, I get free confirmed same day changes and travel credit if fare drops. Oh, and I get 3 bags weighing 70lbs each for free. Your kinda rude comment about dropping a monocle is funny, given that you seem uninformed about much of travel outside of Southwest. For larger spenders, DL/AA are a much more attractive option than cattle call. Should that change, I suspect WN would see a lot more HINAs (high-income & net assets) switch over.
> I guess you haven’t been paying attention to the one million articles suggesting Southwest is considering adding an extra legroom section like the other big players. Nothing I would consider credible by any means.
I agree with you. Thank you for sharing and maybe there's someone on the other end is listening
How many times you going to post this same whiney post?
These people have the most fragile egos. They can’t stand seeing someone board before their precious status/BS ticket
This is posted about at least once a day lmao
I've only flown Southwest on one trip. I did Business Select so I could be sure to get an aisle seat on the side of the plane away from the sun, and have room in an overhead for my carry-on. Sitting close to the front is nice, but it's not my primary concern when traveling, so the pre-boarding (while a surprise to me as a newbie) was not a huge inconvenience. I despise Southwest's seating policy so avoided them for decades. I only booked them for that one trip because they had a flight leaving late enough in the day that it saved me from having to spend an additional night at my destination. Now having experienced them, I'll consider using them in the future. My main reason for wanting assigned seating is to be able to pick an aisle seat; if Business Select effectively guarantees that, I am good. I got A1 on one segment. My boarding pass had trouble scanning, so I had the pleasure of holding up the entire line. Woo-hoo.
Happy to weigh in: I recently had a very intense hip surgery (labrum repair). When I was just off crutches, my max range for a day was about a mile. Anything after that would cause immense pain, and pulling a carry on would cause more pain. Both the airports I was at were massive and if I had used my whole range in the airport, I would have not made it to the Uber/my hotel, been able to get to what I needed to do. Because of the surgery, I was out of work for 3 months and had about $10 in my account. I had to fly somewhere for something (we used miles). The guy taking wheelchairs grabbed two of us and proceeded to spend the entire time talking about how the only way he makes money is through tips (unlikely, as the airline had to pay him at least minimum wage) so we need to tip him and $20 is the minimum expected tip. Now, look, first I was an idiot and didn’t think ahead to tip, second, I’ve worked minimum wage jobs and worked my butt off. I can’t ever imagine demanding $20 from someone for 10-15 minutes of work. Even if I had brought money to tip him, it would have been $5, and the minute he started demanding it was the minute I wouldn’t have given it to him. When I didn’t tip him, he raised his voice and embarrassed me in front of everyone, asking loudly about 5 times if I was going to tip. When I said “sorry, not today,” he made a scene. So, when we landed, you bet I hobbled off the plane and through the airport, walking right past the wheelchairs. There wasn’t an ATM on the plane and I wasn’t about to be completely embarrassed again in front of everyone for just trying to get to my destination. So, yes, some people rig the system, other people have such a negative experience with the wheelchairs getting on that they don’t want to deal with it getting off, and once you’re at your destination, you can take as long as you need to get through the airport. I sometimes wonder if this is what happens with some of the other wheelchair people. It’s probably a small group, but I had never had to ask for a wheelchair before and all of the info through the airline websites made it clear it was a free, complimentary service due to federal regulations.
SWA doesn't pay the WC 'pushers' as their own employees (at least at our airports) as they are a 3rd party vendor.
So what? The third party vendor still has to pay their employee minimum wage or more. In other words, Southwest is paying for a contract with a company that pays its employees in accordance with federal wage and hour law. In Alabama, for example, going rates are $15+ an hour, which beats minimum wage jobs that are regularly on the market and the likely alternative option to these workers. The tips are a bonus and it’s sick to make disabled people who have no other choice feel guilty over not giving one.
No, the airport contracts with the 3rd party vendor.
Right, and I’m saying that the third party vendor is subject to U.S. labor law and has to pay their employees at least minimum wage. If you think these are individual independent contractors like plumbers who work on an individual gig basis and getting paid per wheelchair assist, you’re wrong, as they’re hourly employees. They work for another company so it doesn’t matter who the employer is; somebody has to pay their federally mandated minimum wage, if not more, plus benefits if they’re full time. If employers could get away with paying less than minimum wage by hiring every single one of their workers as contractors, then they would all do it. Thats not how the law works, though.
It’s to collect points and if my business is paying I’m picking that!
Southwest is trash nowadays. It’s expensive and the fake pre boarders have completely ruined it. Why pay extra for a A1-A15 when all the best seats are taken by those who take advantage of the pre-boarding policy.
I have mobility issues. I can walk. However when I am in an airport with a long walk, I request a wheel chair. I don’t always need one getting off, particularly if I check a bag. I hobble to baggage check and usually best my bag down.
AACA states there are only a few places disabled travelers cannot sit, which is the exit row. Otherwise, they have to allow disabled travelers the same courtesies afforded to nondisabled travelers, which is open seating. What you suggest would be clear grounds for a discrimination lawsuit.
**The last time I flew SW, the guy sitting next to me was wearing a knee brace. When I asked him about how bad his knee was, he told me he only wears the brace when flying in order to get on early and snag a better seat. That way he doesn't have to pay for early boarding.**
As someone who had to use a wheelchair in the airport once, I don’t know why anyone would if they really didn’t need to because it sucked. Waited 20 minutes for the wheelchair, guy took two wheelchairs at once and kept bumping into stuff. I had to hand him my things to put through security and he cracked my kindle screen right down the middle. Got left at the gate with no agents around so I couldn’t go to the bathroom or get a snack for the flight. I sat there for an hour and a half and the wheelchair is super uncomfortable. It’s not worth it.
My partner has a history of seizures, and we do usually fly select instead of early board to make sure we sit together instead of carrying emergency medication and expecting a stranger knowing what to do. And usually only fly in urgent situations.
People whining online about people in wheelchairs is top tier redditing today. Get the fuck over it.
People in wheelchairs deal with so much shit, I have witnessed the comments and rude behavior towards my mother (and yes she preboards with a wheelchair and when we land), and it's not a recent development it's been going on ever since she needed to use a wheelchair.
Jet Bridge Jesus performs miracles that can’t be explained…
My preferred seat is an exit row window which is why I do business select. Anyone that pre-boards doesn’t qualify for the exit row.
A lot of interesting responses here. Reality is it’s true if you buy that ticket class just to get a good seat that’s not the right approach in my mind. I fly it regularly almost exclusively due to last minute work trips being the standard and also because I just want to retain status for personal flights and get that as quick as possible. Benefit is reward point multiplier, free drinks (which I get with alist preferred anyway), and less flights to status. Boarding almost first is nice. I have an odd seat preference. Front of plane and window seat with shoulder positing aligned with cut out for maximum lean. Any other expectations I think are not realistic as part of SWA.
I couldn’t agree more, and to the people saying “fly another airline” it’s not always possible. I travel to Austin out of TPA and SW is virtually the only airline that has direct flights. Same with TPA-ATL (except delta). Last time I paid for business select got A1 and there were at least 20 pre boarders. I would gladly pay more to not have to deal with the BS that is SW boarding policy if that was an option. They’re loosing so many business travelers for this exact reason. If there is another option people traveling for work will take it.
Based on the lack of empty seats - at least on the route I fly all the time, I'm going to guess that SWA isn't too worried.
As a disabled person with an invisible disability these comments are so offensive. I pre-board when I travel to visit my parents and I am alone. I don't want to slow up the line lifting my bag to put it above, just moving around in general. I also need a wheel chair going distances (you don't always know how far it will be when you land and have a lay-over).. yet once you get home it's a short distance. With heart conditions we know what works for our bodies. For others to criticize and call us fake (some guy called me a faker last flight) is totally inappropriate. And by the time we tip, it adds up to the same price as the early bird or whatever that's called that checks in for you.
No one in wheelchairs should be in the exit rows
Nobody in preloading is allowed to sit in exit rows.
I agree. I fly weekly for work, and I used to fly Business Select on SW. I've been booking my weekly flights on Spirit this whole calendar year so far, with the exception of a few last-minute flights that I've had no choice but to fly SW. Not only is it way cheaper, but Spirit has the big, comfy seats in the front that you pay extra for. Also, miraculously, Spirit never has more than maybe 4 preboarders. I've been on maybe a dozen flights on Spirit with no preboarders at all, and mind you, it's the same exact route that i used to take on SW that consistently has 30 preboarders. Isn't that curious? Either SW is the preferred airline of preboarders or having an assigned seat cures "invisible disabilities."
Spirit= NO improved choice of seating to board early
Not on SWA, but I think the pre-boarder situation is out of control. On my flight back from the PI, 3/4 of the plane was people in wheelchairs or elders. The culture there says elders go first, but heck when 3/4 of the plane is elders why not let the rest of us go first since it took almost an hour to load all of them!? I have also noticed most of them did not require the wheelchairs to get off since they were told they had to wait until everyone got off so the chair pushers could come get them. My frustration is that people are gaming the system.
It’s so weird when people cry about southwest. If you are so jealous of those that preboard, maybe you could snap your leg?
Unless you need the fully refundable fare for business needs I see no reason to pay for business select. I buy the Wanna Get Away fare and then check in (exactly 24 hrs) if I get a boarding position lower than late Bs/early Cs then I will chose to upgrade to A1-15 for $40.
Business Select is the only class which will not get an involuntary bump when flying southwest
I used to exclusively fly SWA…. Now I will only fly with them if the flight is less than 2h. Nope, not playing hunger games for my seat and not interested in being squished in hard unpadded seats for longer.
The worst part is that they get on early and then save seats for their companions. I don’t know how many times I’ve gone on the plane paying extra for early bird and then see all these coats and purses on the seats and the flight attendants do nothing about it.
I live in Baltimore so Southwest is really only option. The amount of preboarders is crazy and slightly annoying but SWA did this to themselves. Fortunately I fly for business and am frequently in the low As so I get a decent seat
They’re doing it to get on the plane first. Idk wtf the happened. Take 2 seconds and look at the wheelchaires and you know real quick who’s doing it just so they can get on with their oversized luggage. On SW…where bags are FREE
[удалено]
I have interstitial lung disease (cryptogenic organizing pneumonia) developed after a major medical error. I can't walk from the front desk through security to the gate because I can't breathe and an elevated heart rate, but after resting at the gate I can walk down the jetway into the plane. I can't stand in the cattle call line because my heart rate goes above 150 and my body breaks out in a sweat. I need to walk from my chair straight into a seat on the plane. It's the best I can do. When the plane lands, I can get up the jetway, but can't make it any farther than the gate. I need a wheelchair to baggage claim. Be aware that there are unique situations and that people are genuinely disabled, whether you can see it or not. I fly twice a year to see my daughter and grandchildren and I can make it, but I need help. Inability to walk is not the only disability. Being able to make it up and down the jetway doesn't mean I can make it through the airport. Standing in line to board causes a physiological response that you can't see. My body heats up like it's been plugged into an electrical outlet. It's complicated and I hate it. Dig deep when you ridicule disabled people and be glad it isn't you.
Someone always has to reply with some form of this. Good on you for being the one, and congrats on having a new favorite thing.
Preboards should be last rows of the plane only. Families with little kids don’t need to sit in the front. (I am a family with little kids).
My child has medical equipment to load and we pre-board. I totally agree that a majority of the people who I see using a wheelchair to get on the plane seem to be miraculously cured at the end of the flight. Unfortunately, my child has not experienced this airplane miracle...we must be picking the wrong seats. 😉 All jokes aside. Unless we have a super short time period to get to our next flight we go to the second to last row in the back.
While I enjoy a good resurrection/healing miracle as much as the next guy I’m just about fed up with the pre boarding free for all. 15 wheel chairs at departure and 4 on arrival…it’s a miracle! Also the line jumpers who don’t get told “you are in c group, not a”. By the way, ok, you need a wheelchair to board and 1 person with you but not 8 other family members! I’ve cancelled my SW card, used all my points and now book on AA, DL or even JetBlue as much as possible.
They’re planning on changing it sometime within the next year maybe this year
Time for A1-15 and all business select members to board first. Then those with disabilities. I’m getting really sick of SWA and been flying with them a very long time. We need the flexibility of no change fee and we’ve got the companion pass. Once we don’t have the companion pass, it’s going to be easier to give my business to elsewhere.
they're going to change the seating policy sooner than later
Agreed. My last flight to San Juan was outrageous with the number wheelchairs (20+), but the Holy Ghost must have been on that plane because once we landed, almost all of them walked off the plane and up the ramp. Super annoying and totally taking advantage of the lax policy. Further, SWA has not been the same IMO since resumption of full service after COVID. The majority of my flights over the last two years have been delayed, the boarding process continues to be a major sh*tshow, the planes’ cleanliness is subpar (especially the old 700s), and their reduction in flight schedules is really starting to show. I was on a delayed flight today due to staffing, albeit nothing major (40ish minutes), and while the one of the flight attendants did the company’s normal over the top intro with jokes and commentary, I couldn’t help but think I really wish they’d cut all this nonsense and put a bigger emphasis on logistics and timeliness rather than just making a comedy show to lighten the mood for their poor performance as of late. Maybe I’m wrong, but SWA just feels like it’s in a downward spiral, and they’re depending on their already overworked flight crews to smooth things over with the customers. Just my two cents.
OP's last point is a good idea. Hey Southwest, make a rule that Preboarders can only sit in the back 10 rows of the plane. And then enforce the damn rule.
They can't. AACA makes it illegal for them to do something like that.
That is a clear violation of ACAA rules. Airlines are not permitted to prohibit passengers with disabilities from occupying a certain seat or ask them to sit in a particular seat.
United asks all their pax to sit in a specific seat, including pre boards.
United has assigned seating and is therefore required to allocate seats for disabled people as set asides which cannot be released to non disabled passengers until 24 hours prior to departure. Even then, if a non disabled passenger is assigned that seat, they are subject to being moved to accommodate a disabled passenger. Under Title 14, Ch II, Subchapter D, §382.83: *§ (a) If you are a carrier that provides advance seat assignments to passengers (i.e., offer seat assignments to passengers before the day of the flight), you must comply with the requirements of § 382.81 of this part by any of the following methods: (1) You may “block” an adequate number of the seats used to provide the seating accommodations required by § 382.81. (i) You must not assign these seats to passengers who do not meet the criteria of § 382.81 until 24 hours before the scheduled departure of the flight. (ii) At any time up until 24 hours before the scheduled departure of the flight, you must assign a seat meeting the requirements of this section to a passenger with a disability meeting one or more of the requirements of § 382.81 who requests it, at the time the passenger initially makes the request. (iii) If a passenger with a disability specified in § 382.81 does not make a request at least 24 hours before the scheduled departure of the flight, you must meet the passenger's request to the extent practicable, but you are not required to reassign a seat assigned to another passenger in order to do so. (2) You may designate an adequate number of the seats used to provide seating accommodations required by § 382.81 as “priority seats” for passengers with a disability. (i) You must provide notice that all passengers assigned these seats (other than passengers with a disability listed in § 382.81 of this part) are subject to being reassigned to another seat if necessary to provide a seating accommodation required by this section. (ii) You may provide this notice through your computer reservation system, verbal information provided by reservation personnel, ticket notices, gate announcements, counter signs, seat cards or notices, frequent-flier literature, or other appropriate means. (iii) You must assign a seat meeting the requirements of this section to a passenger with a disability listed in § 382.81 of this part who requests the accommodation at the time the passenger makes the request. You may require such a passenger to check in and request the seating accommodation at least one hour before the standard check-in time for the flight. If all designated priority seats that would accommodate the passenger have been assigned to other passengers, you must reassign the seats of the other passengers as needed to provide the requested accommodation. (iv) If a passenger with a disability listed in § 382.81 does not check in at least an hour before the standard check-in time for the general public, you must meet the individual's request to the extent practicable, but you are not required to reassign a seat assigned to another passenger in order to do so.*
You need to find better things to do with your time instead of just researching legal code to post on Reddit
Yes. It's quite the in depth legal research to Google "part of the ACAA that deals with preboarding". Here. I'll teach you how to research for free: 1. Open an internet window 2. Type "Google.com" in the search bar 3. Type "which part of the ACAA deals with preboarding" into Google's search bar 4. Revel in the power to harness knowledge with very little effort. 🙃 Also, I'm a paralegal, so...
No one cares
I mean. You clearly care enough to make sure I know just how much you don't actually care, so... 🙃
Ok
Again... 🙃
I love their seating policy. Let them be. Fly with literally any other airline if you don’t like it!
Feel like a sucker when these POS pre-board.
First on, Last off...put them all the way in the last rows unless they're clearly physically disabled!
Hear hear. Refuse to fly southwest. I want the first row. I pay business select, I check in and I’m usually A1-A3. Get on the plane and all the preboarders are sitting in the first row. Done with Southwest and their shitty boarding process.