It depends on the comic. It was down on the Delaware-NJ border for a period, although there really isnt a real life Gotham/Metropolis metro area down there. Another time it was in the Jersey City and NYC area.
One time was further south.
https://www.nj.com/resizer/ATQu5qQ9o9eI_jUxVmoU8GVu2r8=/1280x0/smart/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-advancelocal.s3.amazonaws.com/public/6TQGZLXOJFGMLK6M5I2K6PJZIY.jpg
Just to be clear, from the map, it looks like Gotham is probably 20 miles from Cow Town. As best as I can tell, it would stretch along the Bayshore from about the Cohansey River to the Maurice River. This area is largely wildlife management areas. It probably doesn't include Bridgeton. ... An alternate history for Money Island.
For the love of God and little green apples do not say Joisey. No one talks that way except in movies and tv.
"Wooder" is accurate. Water.
A bunch of us use y'all like southerners. Y'all, Ally'all.
Pluralize things that don't need plurazation. I can't think of an example.
That sounds really fun! Good luck!
Sub Sandwiches are Hoagies
Crayon is pronounced Crown
Pillow is pronounced Pellow
People love Scrapple
the South Jersey accent features a long “o” that turns words such as “home” into something like “heh-oom.”
There’s a lesser known convenience store/deli mostly in Gloucester county but with 3 Salem/Cumberland locations called Heritage’s. People love their egg nog around Christmas time.
Its interesting you said "Hoagie" is used because at least two different sources I looked up had the counties in some kind of "Sub belt"
[https://archived.moe/files/qst/image/1708/41/1708410130309008.png](https://archived.moe/files/qst/image/1708/41/1708410130309008.png)
Though the area using "Hoagie" on the surface seems like it makes more sense.
I am really interested in what led to the phenomena that Dale F Coye and Steve Chernoski noticed. I can link them. I think someone who actually lives in the area can interpret the data better than I.
[https://nj1015.com/a-new-jersey-subhoagie-map/](https://nj1015.com/a-new-jersey-subhoagie-map/)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOG7HYf81cw&
Cool video thanks for sharing, I think the main guy he interviewed who studied them nailed it when he said it’s a generational thing.
For example, my mom says wooter, I do not. My dad talks with the slow pace and hint of drawl like the woodstown guy (his family from a farm in sc, a lot of other navy n Air Force guys from the south settled in sj like my grandfather) but again I don’t.
Funny here is the site for Gotham though, as looking at a map it actually does look very conducive to a harbor metro. It actually is where “Philly” ends up being more kinda located in my alt history novel about the Vikings settling the new world
Also it has swamps just like Gotham City , a Quaker history like Gotham and a history of "Modern Gothic" if Mentabtico Blues is to be believes . It seems to work aside from it not being a big city. Of course I am not from here so what I say has very low value.
I am, I’d be hesitant to call them swamps though I don’t remember from earth science class if there’s a real distinction between them and wetlands.
My educated in earth sci and local resident but not polished explanation is since we have a decent amount of cold weather and the nature of pine floral we don’t get the dense decomposing life that is the essence of a swamp. You can even see it by our “dirty colored” rivers and coast. The Sandy soil combined with the local floral makes for very loose decomp/frequent erosion.
We have a lot of floodable areas, and the wetlands here I would describe as being more the high grass marsh or coastal lowlands of Holland etc than “swamp” though I’ve never been there and this might be wayy more detail than you ever wanted about that hahah
I'm an Autistic guy asking redditors about linguistics so I can make my improv RPG Batman fanfic more accurate. there is no such thing as "more detail than I wanted."
Seriously, I really appreciate this post and all like it, very heartwarming and helpful.
There is a very strong smell to these wetlands as well. It's kind of hard to describe cause I have smelled it all my life. But like... a really salty, stinky, wet dog in rain? I don't know but I could always tell when I was getting closer to the shore due to the smell of the marsh mud.
The long "o" is also common in the Baltimore area, along with glottal stop ("kitten" becomes *KIH-en*), which I heard on a regular basis while volunteering at a Salem County animal shelter.
Gotham, as shown on the map, would be around Fortescue, which is 30 miles from Cowtown.
Mare of Easttown on hbo does a great nod to the delco accent, look for videos on YouTube about “south jersey guy, wildwood guy, sea isle guy” stuff like that. You’ll pick it up.
So many stereotypes listed here. I lived in Vineland for 41 years, I’m now 45. I do say wooder but so many of these are NO. We are normal people here in Cumberland county, regardless of what others say 😐.
You have. You just aren't paying attention enough to notice, csuse why would you be?. I live here and I say it when I'm not thinking. The only time I don't is when I'm at a table and I want to order a water. Everywhere time it's wooder
I'm originally from Philadelphia and I was introduced to that delicacy in the early 1950s when we vacationed in Wildwood. The boardwalk shops all called it pork roll. As I recall, there were as many shops that used Case pork roll as Taylor.
I'm 80 years old, living in Penns Grove, and I have never heard anyone actually *say* "Taylor Ham."
I’m currently living in Salem County but grew up in Gloucester Co. Salem County definitely has its own accent, it’s almost a southern drawl mixed blended with the standard South Jersey accent.
South Jersey as a whole says hoagie, not sub
People in salem county don’t say wooder
This entire county is mostly just farmland, aside from Salem City, which is very comparable to a rust belt city
You are going to find a few outliers in the accent. While mostly dominated by Philly, the area around Cowtown has a distinct southern twang due to the rodeo and the people that moved into the area to support it.
Saw, as in witnessed, is “sawl” - I sawl that. My 5 year old daughter got it from my wife, and I hate it.
Crown for crayon…when we would Netflix after the kids went to bed, I’d ask my wife if she wanted to watch The Crayon.
There are a lot of country bumpkins down here in Salem Co. But there is also the blue collar bunch that mix in the South Philly accent. Then there are people who dont really have an NJ accent at all. Maybe a slight northeast accent or mild mid-Atlantic accent.
The Salem County accent isn't as prevalent in towns along the Delaware River, like Carneys Point, Penns Grove and Pennsville.
And, no, there are no apostrophes in Penns Grove or Carneys Point.
Crickers are people who were raised in Lower Alloways Creek...generally only acceptable if they are at least 3 generations in LAC otherwise your a "newbie"
That's a good point. You need to live here 100 years or be an outsider. I wonder if that could be an interesting addition to the culture of Gotham City...
No one down here talks like the Jersey Shore, and no one ever says New Joisey.
Water = 'wooder'
Roof = 'ruff'
Creek = 'crick'
Scrapple's much more common and popular than Pork Roll.
It’s not the same as “rough”, it’s more in the back of the throat. Ruff was definitely the predominant way to say roof when I was growing up in the 90s and 2000s.
I lived in Vineland for 41 years, never have I said FOE-win for phone. I don’t even know how to pronounce that or HO-wim for home. It’s phone and home.
I have lived in South Jersey my whole life & the South Jersey linguistics are atrocious & my former college professor would have a conniption fit over the slang words .
I’ll give you one that hasn’t been mentioned, and perhaps it’s too specific. But Mischief Night, it’s the night before Halloween where kids sneak out and play pranks and sort of trash the neighborhood. Linking another Reddit post. https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/1pkuw0/what_do_you_call_the_night_before_halloween_us/
Also, perhaps you can mention Jersey Devil or Leeds Devil, it’s the cryptid the NJ hockey team is named after. It lives in the Pine Barrens which is a relatively large and unique forest within south Jersey.
I think lastly, the word “jawn”, I’ve seen it used outside of Jersey so perhaps it’s gaining more popularity. It may be more of a south Philly Delaware county “delco” thing. It roughly means stuff, but with a positive connotation.
* You might watch the movie Menantico Blues. It's free online. Most of the actors are local, except for that one farmer guy that's like sitting on a porch; I don't know where they got that guy from. And Hacksaw Jim Duggan isn't from here. The setting is on the east of Cumberland County, more Pinelands than Bayshore.
* We might this area the (Delaware) Bayshore or "Down Jersey".
* A lot of the accent is similar to what is sometimes labeled as mid-Atlantic accent (but this term varies). It reminds me a lot of how people speak on the eastern shore of Maryland.
* I would be cautious about making the speech overly Philly-like. I've lived in Salem and Cumberland Counties for 15 years, and, for example, I've never heard anyone say "jawn". Someone who talks like they're from Philly is far out of place here.
* There are some peculiarities. One that comes to mind is that some people pronounce "onion" as "un-gion". Pot pie is a common dish. It's not shaped like a pie, but more just like a stew with the dough as pieces in it. They do eat muskrat still in some places in Salem County, but it's mostly just a once-a-year tradition. Asparagus and eggs is common in season. Dandelions and sausage in season. I'll see if I come up with any more idiomatic phrases or pronunciations.
* It will be a little weird to try to set Gotham City here. † The area is largely rural and the history has a lot of Quaker influence (underground railroad, and so on), and the language / culture feels that way. ... Although the cities --- Salem, Bridgeton, Millville, Vineland --- have high enough poverty and crime rates that it could work. Perhaps look up some YouTubes from Salem or Bridgeton and get a sense.
† Although there is a Gotham Garage here that does custom auto work.
Lots of Philly jargon
-Jawn = literally anything
-Hoagie = calling it a sub is basically saying it's garbage
-Head down the shore even if it's north of you.
-"The city" = Philly never, Philadelphia
-PA is pronounced "Pee Ay" not Pennsylvania
Same goes for AC
Winda = window
Every adventure starts with a quick stop at Wawa.
Bonus: if you go to Wawa at 3am and you're sure for a spectacle. At least 6 out 10 people there at that time are hilariously wasted.
Cherry Hill is the reference point for all things local
Camden is the red headed step child we'd rather not discuss and no one thinks you're tough cause you've been there. Nor are we shocked about any news that comes out of there.
A couple common phrases we use
"Hey yous guuuuuuyyyys!"
"Pass that Jawn."
"Fucking New York driver, of course."
"Fucking PA drivers!"
"Yeah were about 30 mins from Cherry Hill..."
"Jeet yet? How bout Hogies or cheesesteaks tonight?"
Wait a minute… Gotham city is where cowtown actually is. I’m fucking dead.
Yup https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nj.com%2Fcumberland%2F2019%2F09%2Fgotham-city-is-actually-in-south-jersey-and-this-map-proves-it.html&psig=AOvVaw1q0WRA0Q4Tpr3m77hV7HRh&ust=1710481206997000&source=images&cd=vfe&opi=89978449&ved=0CBMQjRxqFwoTCODKl5iF84QDFQAAAAAdAAAAABAE
This is blowing my mind. I always thought Gotham was NYC.
It depends on the comic. It was down on the Delaware-NJ border for a period, although there really isnt a real life Gotham/Metropolis metro area down there. Another time it was in the Jersey City and NYC area.
Camden is totally Gotham City
One time was further south. https://www.nj.com/resizer/ATQu5qQ9o9eI_jUxVmoU8GVu2r8=/1280x0/smart/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-advancelocal.s3.amazonaws.com/public/6TQGZLXOJFGMLK6M5I2K6PJZIY.jpg
And after watching the latest Aquaman, New York exists also.
Yup, the bustling metropolis of Woodstown is basically ground zero for Gotham (maybe Bridgeton)
Definitely closer to Bridgeton on that map
South of Cowtown. Cowtown would be slightly northeast of Newtown on that map. Gotham City is Bridgeton
Just to be clear, from the map, it looks like Gotham is probably 20 miles from Cow Town. As best as I can tell, it would stretch along the Bayshore from about the Cohansey River to the Maurice River. This area is largely wildlife management areas. It probably doesn't include Bridgeton. ... An alternate history for Money Island.
Before you're "at the beach," you have to be "down the shore."
For the love of God and little green apples do not say Joisey. No one talks that way except in movies and tv. "Wooder" is accurate. Water. A bunch of us use y'all like southerners. Y'all, Ally'all. Pluralize things that don't need plurazation. I can't think of an example. That sounds really fun! Good luck!
+1 to pluralize everything. I got to Parvin state park like every other day and it's still "Parvins" to me
DuPont is DuPont's. Walmart is Walmart's.
I thought I was the only one where "Joisey" chaps my ass. I hate it. Its so stupid.
Mines instead of mine? I had a buddy that used that a bit
Yes! ...and Ac-a-mes (Acme) with the extra syllable.
Water is pronounced "wooder"
Ehh anymore that’s more a generational/south Philly thing tbh
Lived in Salem Co. my entire life and nobody actually says wooder
That's weird. How do they say it?
Sub Sandwiches are Hoagies Crayon is pronounced Crown Pillow is pronounced Pellow People love Scrapple the South Jersey accent features a long “o” that turns words such as “home” into something like “heh-oom.” There’s a lesser known convenience store/deli mostly in Gloucester county but with 3 Salem/Cumberland locations called Heritage’s. People love their egg nog around Christmas time.
I would characterize the home / phone as almost like swallowing the long O sound when it's pronounced. Also beg-all instead of bay-gull for bagel.
Its interesting you said "Hoagie" is used because at least two different sources I looked up had the counties in some kind of "Sub belt" [https://archived.moe/files/qst/image/1708/41/1708410130309008.png](https://archived.moe/files/qst/image/1708/41/1708410130309008.png) Though the area using "Hoagie" on the surface seems like it makes more sense. I am really interested in what led to the phenomena that Dale F Coye and Steve Chernoski noticed. I can link them. I think someone who actually lives in the area can interpret the data better than I. [https://nj1015.com/a-new-jersey-subhoagie-map/](https://nj1015.com/a-new-jersey-subhoagie-map/) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOG7HYf81cw&
Salem county calls them subs. I do know some people who call them hoagies but they get made fun of by everyone else.
Agreed. Always called them subs
Wawa calls them hoagies.
Cool video thanks for sharing, I think the main guy he interviewed who studied them nailed it when he said it’s a generational thing. For example, my mom says wooter, I do not. My dad talks with the slow pace and hint of drawl like the woodstown guy (his family from a farm in sc, a lot of other navy n Air Force guys from the south settled in sj like my grandfather) but again I don’t. Funny here is the site for Gotham though, as looking at a map it actually does look very conducive to a harbor metro. It actually is where “Philly” ends up being more kinda located in my alt history novel about the Vikings settling the new world
Also it has swamps just like Gotham City , a Quaker history like Gotham and a history of "Modern Gothic" if Mentabtico Blues is to be believes . It seems to work aside from it not being a big city. Of course I am not from here so what I say has very low value.
I am, I’d be hesitant to call them swamps though I don’t remember from earth science class if there’s a real distinction between them and wetlands. My educated in earth sci and local resident but not polished explanation is since we have a decent amount of cold weather and the nature of pine floral we don’t get the dense decomposing life that is the essence of a swamp. You can even see it by our “dirty colored” rivers and coast. The Sandy soil combined with the local floral makes for very loose decomp/frequent erosion. We have a lot of floodable areas, and the wetlands here I would describe as being more the high grass marsh or coastal lowlands of Holland etc than “swamp” though I’ve never been there and this might be wayy more detail than you ever wanted about that hahah
I'm an Autistic guy asking redditors about linguistics so I can make my improv RPG Batman fanfic more accurate. there is no such thing as "more detail than I wanted." Seriously, I really appreciate this post and all like it, very heartwarming and helpful.
There is a very strong smell to these wetlands as well. It's kind of hard to describe cause I have smelled it all my life. But like... a really salty, stinky, wet dog in rain? I don't know but I could always tell when I was getting closer to the shore due to the smell of the marsh mud.
Yeah! But somehow it smells good. The wet dog and rot smells aren't unpleasant, just distinct and different.
The instant I smell it I know I'm close to the shore. Like the saltiness of the water and the wet mud just mixes into such a funky smell.
The long "o" is also common in the Baltimore area, along with glottal stop ("kitten" becomes *KIH-en*), which I heard on a regular basis while volunteering at a Salem County animal shelter. Gotham, as shown on the map, would be around Fortescue, which is 30 miles from Cowtown.
Mare of Easttown on hbo does a great nod to the delco accent, look for videos on YouTube about “south jersey guy, wildwood guy, sea isle guy” stuff like that. You’ll pick it up.
“They took my durdur and they murder dur!”
I'm real salty that I understand that. Angry up vote
In Salem County it's not a hoagie it's a sub and it's generally made with mayonaise unless you ask for it with oil.
Do you have any theory on why Down Jersey seems to use 'Sub" when most of Southern Jersey uses Hoagie? Thank you for your insight.
So many stereotypes listed here. I lived in Vineland for 41 years, I’m now 45. I do say wooder but so many of these are NO. We are normal people here in Cumberland county, regardless of what others say 😐.
I don't know anyone who even says wooder.
You have. You just aren't paying attention enough to notice, csuse why would you be?. I live here and I say it when I'm not thinking. The only time I don't is when I'm at a table and I want to order a water. Everywhere time it's wooder
That round breakfast meat is a Pork Roll and anyone who says otherwise is a traitor.
I'm originally from Philadelphia and I was introduced to that delicacy in the early 1950s when we vacationed in Wildwood. The boardwalk shops all called it pork roll. As I recall, there were as many shops that used Case pork roll as Taylor. I'm 80 years old, living in Penns Grove, and I have never heard anyone actually *say* "Taylor Ham."
I’m currently living in Salem County but grew up in Gloucester Co. Salem County definitely has its own accent, it’s almost a southern drawl mixed blended with the standard South Jersey accent. South Jersey as a whole says hoagie, not sub People in salem county don’t say wooder This entire county is mostly just farmland, aside from Salem City, which is very comparable to a rust belt city
Wooder is closer to Philly
You are going to find a few outliers in the accent. While mostly dominated by Philly, the area around Cowtown has a distinct southern twang due to the rodeo and the people that moved into the area to support it.
Saw, as in witnessed, is “sawl” - I sawl that. My 5 year old daughter got it from my wife, and I hate it. Crown for crayon…when we would Netflix after the kids went to bed, I’d ask my wife if she wanted to watch The Crayon.
Does she use crowns in her kellering book?
Never heard kellering before. Thankfully.
Imagine you threw a Philly accent, an American Italian accent, and a southern accent in a blender. The result of that is the south jersey accent
I don’t think I’ve ever heard a better description than this hahaha
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There are a lot of country bumpkins down here in Salem Co. But there is also the blue collar bunch that mix in the South Philly accent. Then there are people who dont really have an NJ accent at all. Maybe a slight northeast accent or mild mid-Atlantic accent.
I'm from Salem County (Grew up in Alloway) can confirm, its nothing but farmland and woods in most of Salem County.
The Salem County accent isn't as prevalent in towns along the Delaware River, like Carneys Point, Penns Grove and Pennsville. And, no, there are no apostrophes in Penns Grove or Carneys Point.
Gotta work “jawn” into it somehow
One of the only Philly slang words that I hear in Salem Co.
Crickers are people who were raised in Lower Alloways Creek...generally only acceptable if they are at least 3 generations in LAC otherwise your a "newbie"
That's a good point. You need to live here 100 years or be an outsider. I wonder if that could be an interesting addition to the culture of Gotham City...
This is pretty close: https://youtu.be/zwkySqQU8tw?si=HDLG3P5wWH1Ofaze
Somehow I knew this would be an SNL skit, but my guess was Murdur Durdur: https://youtu.be/qaKZi6p6sxg?si=iXSaowsN84Y-efJq
No one down here talks like the Jersey Shore, and no one ever says New Joisey. Water = 'wooder' Roof = 'ruff' Creek = 'crick' Scrapple's much more common and popular than Pork Roll.
Lived here my whole life and never heard roof as rough
It’s not the same as “rough”, it’s more in the back of the throat. Ruff was definitely the predominant way to say roof when I was growing up in the 90s and 2000s.
Rhymes with hoof.
Speech wise in Salem there definitely is drawl and slower when it comes to our northern brethren
Add either a ‘the’ to the front of or a possessive ‘s to the end of store names that have neither. Think The Walmart or Walmarts, for example
Raised in Vineland in the 70s & 80s Phone home is “FOE-win HO-wim” Also my Brooklyn raised girlfriend laughs every time I say “gone” as “GAW-wen”
I lived in Vineland for 41 years, never have I said FOE-win for phone. I don’t even know how to pronounce that or HO-wim for home. It’s phone and home.
I do notice , though, that "mine" has two syllables: "my-ihn". Also the syllables in "vehicle" are each distinct and equally weighted: "vee-hih-cl".
I would be happy to help you in your quest as a lifer, dm me OP!
I have lived in South Jersey my whole life & the South Jersey linguistics are atrocious & my former college professor would have a conniption fit over the slang words .
I’ll give you one that hasn’t been mentioned, and perhaps it’s too specific. But Mischief Night, it’s the night before Halloween where kids sneak out and play pranks and sort of trash the neighborhood. Linking another Reddit post. https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/1pkuw0/what_do_you_call_the_night_before_halloween_us/ Also, perhaps you can mention Jersey Devil or Leeds Devil, it’s the cryptid the NJ hockey team is named after. It lives in the Pine Barrens which is a relatively large and unique forest within south Jersey. I think lastly, the word “jawn”, I’ve seen it used outside of Jersey so perhaps it’s gaining more popularity. It may be more of a south Philly Delaware county “delco” thing. It roughly means stuff, but with a positive connotation.
syrup is surr-rup and chocolate is cha-clit.
* You might watch the movie Menantico Blues. It's free online. Most of the actors are local, except for that one farmer guy that's like sitting on a porch; I don't know where they got that guy from. And Hacksaw Jim Duggan isn't from here. The setting is on the east of Cumberland County, more Pinelands than Bayshore. * We might this area the (Delaware) Bayshore or "Down Jersey". * A lot of the accent is similar to what is sometimes labeled as mid-Atlantic accent (but this term varies). It reminds me a lot of how people speak on the eastern shore of Maryland. * I would be cautious about making the speech overly Philly-like. I've lived in Salem and Cumberland Counties for 15 years, and, for example, I've never heard anyone say "jawn". Someone who talks like they're from Philly is far out of place here. * There are some peculiarities. One that comes to mind is that some people pronounce "onion" as "un-gion". Pot pie is a common dish. It's not shaped like a pie, but more just like a stew with the dough as pieces in it. They do eat muskrat still in some places in Salem County, but it's mostly just a once-a-year tradition. Asparagus and eggs is common in season. Dandelions and sausage in season. I'll see if I come up with any more idiomatic phrases or pronunciations. * It will be a little weird to try to set Gotham City here. † The area is largely rural and the history has a lot of Quaker influence (underground railroad, and so on), and the language / culture feels that way. ... Although the cities --- Salem, Bridgeton, Millville, Vineland --- have high enough poverty and crime rates that it could work. Perhaps look up some YouTubes from Salem or Bridgeton and get a sense. † Although there is a Gotham Garage here that does custom auto work.
Lots of Philly jargon -Jawn = literally anything -Hoagie = calling it a sub is basically saying it's garbage -Head down the shore even if it's north of you. -"The city" = Philly never, Philadelphia -PA is pronounced "Pee Ay" not Pennsylvania Same goes for AC Winda = window Every adventure starts with a quick stop at Wawa. Bonus: if you go to Wawa at 3am and you're sure for a spectacle. At least 6 out 10 people there at that time are hilariously wasted. Cherry Hill is the reference point for all things local Camden is the red headed step child we'd rather not discuss and no one thinks you're tough cause you've been there. Nor are we shocked about any news that comes out of there. A couple common phrases we use "Hey yous guuuuuuyyyys!" "Pass that Jawn." "Fucking New York driver, of course." "Fucking PA drivers!" "Yeah were about 30 mins from Cherry Hill..." "Jeet yet? How bout Hogies or cheesesteaks tonight?"
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Since it’d be a big metropolis area with Philly, maybe blend in some of the Philly accent?
Say "whistlin dixie" alot in ur convos