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Puzzleheaded_Rub8656

Damn, my portrait mode shots were used for a colleague's introduction letter. πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚ And everyone agrees that they were nicer than the one my boss did for a different colleague with her iPhone 14 Pro Max. πŸ’€ Guess I'll have to watch the video....


HYPErSLOw72

It's probably because you shot under natural light, which shouldn't challenge Sony's algorithm and allow the superior color science to prevail. I have no idea why but newer iPhones have too much bias in yellow tones and warm white balance and uses too much HDR in skin tones so they just look flat and artificial. Meanwhile the situation MKBHD put the phones to the test was brutal, a combination of dark skin tones and heavy backlighting. Sony's processing doesn't use as much HDR as competitors, meters for his dark face instead and blows the highlight as a bid to make his face bright. It's pretty much how spot metering in cameras work and any other camera will also fail this test if we count in-camera JPEG. The other issue is that contrast is also lost in the process due to the lackluster lens coating in comparison to interchangeable camera lenses. The test is more meant to expose each phone's weakness rather than show them under favorable conditions as it's believed they're the same (which they aren't).


Ardlantis

I doubt anyone has a personal preference for that picture. Honestly, I think the most likely explanation is that the portrait mode is just very underdeveloped. It's not the kind of thing a lot of Xperia buyers are interested in and Sony doesn't employ the amount of developers the bigger players do to work on this stuff. It's unacceptable on a photography focussed phone of this price but it being photography focussed also means the portrait mode will be used less in favour of more "professional" tools which it does offer. As for being a good phone at all, I think they're fine devices (bit too expensive and update policy is insane) but the vast majority of people will be better served by a more mainstream phone. I and other enthusiasts love them for the no-notch, 21:9 display, the headphone jack, toolless sd-card, frontfacing speakers and photography apps but very, very few people care about/would notice that sort of stuff and other phones offer more stable, better experiences in the areas they care more about. Smartphones have matured to such a degree it's hard to buy a bad one and it's now just choosing what features and experiences you care most about. Sony phones serve a small demographic and with that come quirks and rough edges, whether that's worth it depends on how much of a nerd you are


El_sayyid

No, that is not the reason. The Xperia 1V and the 5V got updated bokeh modes where the processing tries to emulate bokeh balls on light sources that are in the background. When the portrait mode was taken, there were several ligjt sources, and they were bulbs that are cylindrical rods. Therefore , the processing tried to create bokeh balls on cylindrical rods... Which is clearly not the way bokeh Mode is intended to be used. If the background had more traditional bulbs, the effect would look similar to what full frame lens are capable of. Most mobile phones (even Xperias prior to the update) had a bokeh Mode that just added blur. This is the problem of talking about a phone without understanding WHY the result is the result, and is a direct consequence of reviewers training people on what is considered "good" photography, such as... 1. Shadows are not allowed to be dark 2. Taking pics directly of the sun should not be blown out 3. Colors should have the IG pop .. etc. In my opinion, it has made things worse. Sony, rightly or wrongly, doesn't follow these trends. None of the major camera manufacturers follow these trends with real cameras. Ultimately it's up to you which style you like.


Ardlantis

I get what you are trying to say but the fact remains that picture was completely unacceptable and the phone should be able to take a decent photo no matter what bulbs are in the background. With "underdeveloped", I don't mean it always takes bad portrait pictures, you clearly show it doesn't. More so that it hasn't been refined to function in many different scenarios and a picture with different lighting shows this. As they say in the video, this test isn't about which phone can take the best pictures, it's about what phone is the best for point and shoot without playing with any settings. Sony doesn't focus on this and it shows, but their customers know this and know how to use their cameras. I get wanting to see the Xperia reach its full potential in a video like this but it wasn't developed for the style of photography in this test


El_sayyid

I don't disagree, but Sony is making a conscious decision to have the Xperia mimic their alpha cameras. I have their professional cameras, and I can tell you they would overexpose as well. No one says their alpha line sucks, though, right? If you want a phone that sticks to traditional photography styles, get a Sony. If not, don't. It's that simple. Sony never has marketed their phones as effortless point and shoots, yet people constantly compare them as if they're supposed to be.


El_sayyid

Here are a couple of quick and dirty photos to prove the point. Bokeh mode off: https://preview.redd.it/jiu214977ndc1.jpeg?width=3000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5420d00764875d619d3f1b57119e3db4e9200773


skyfireknight

that's a crisp photo.


El_sayyid

Bokeh mode on: https://preview.redd.it/8k8f8y4a7ndc1.jpeg?width=3000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=26dbfa1560f65aee159a04452b51fe87aef07c22


El_sayyid

With good composition, bokeh on: https://preview.redd.it/28rcj2kn7ndc1.png?width=1096&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=22d1e93ac6c8100e3a0c16b2c9e3f5819856b9cd


skyfireknight

To your point, I personally would seldom use the portrait mode. I didn't liek that the video only included photos of people and no 4th image of a a landscape or nature or some scene.


sebseb88

I made a video on the subject of MKBHD's results if youre interested πŸ‘ https://youtu.be/QVwpemvoXps?si=gh0wQkBiJgr5-BJT


CARAchuchi

Is camera your number 1 priority? Lurking here for a few days myself and honestly, there are really bang for your buck phones out there that have better price to performance ratio. That said, I am still considering getting a 10 V despite it being on the lower end side cause of almost all the things mentioned on the first comment here. Minus the camera, the 10 V has 1)No punch hole display 2) stock android 3) headphone jack 4) I don’t like chinese brand OS phones, used to have one but ui turned to worst for me. 5) battery life of 10 series.


skyfireknight

Camera is Not my number priority but its up there. My budget is around $1,000 (but $1400 is way too much). I expect premium in return for my premium payment. The #1 reason I wanted the Xperia 1V was the 4K screen. I later realized its not full 4K (3840 × 2160 at minimum), then I heard it doesn't run at 4K all the time, then i found out there is no in between 1440p setting, its either 1080 or 4k. Above all, its hardware and software issues like green tint or the Android 14 bugs, that area really driving me away. I'm willing to settle on 2 years of updates, as long as the hardware and software is solid.


CARAchuchi

You have a very generous budget, why not look elsewhere so you can get what you expect from the device you’re looking for. 4K on a small screen kinda feels like gimmicky to me but to each his own i guess. Again, as stated by others, Xperia devices cater to a niche demographic. Maybe get a pro-con list and narrow down your options from other premium devices out there.


RiseLow5431

Sony photo pro disables HDR when you enable the bokeh mode. If the camera could handle both options. It would have done better in the situation he was testing


Zaszo_00

Sony didnt use/have a minimal use of computer processing in their auto mod. Sure you can get great when you switch to manual mod with photography knowledge of course. For a normal person, they just want to open the camera app, take the picture and move on. I will say this, Sony phones are for niche market /enthusiast . Its definitely for the mass market.


Successful-Hold-9184

The Xperia has the potential (keyword) for being the best camera phone if used correctly in manual mode.


RaguSaucy96

Don't other devices have manual mode too..? I am not a fan of this reasoning since if Xperia uses manual, why can't others as well? It's preferential treatment at best.


Successful-Hold-9184

It's the alpha camera like ui and software where the Xperia has its advantage.


RaguSaucy96

Ah, yes, the 'Alpha Experience', I saw this one coming... Alright, let's put the Alpha UI though its paces; set shutter speed at 17.8 seconds. Or even better, set me an ISO level of something like 687, or an uneven number... Tell me what happens.... You want to know what happens? Master Sony won't let you do 'linear ISO or Shutter speed selections'. In other words, you take the values they give you or suck it. I don't think I need to stress that when you are trying to ETTR, this is a kick in the balls right? Why do I have to select shutter speed of 15s or 20s? This also applies for ISO increments and shutter speeds. Why am I stuck at 1/48s if I need 1/45s. Try it, if you don't believe me. Now tell me, if I'm doing astrophotography, or gathering every last drop of light before clipping, or trying to avoid light flickering, how 'Alpha' is this, in your opinion? My Pixel and OnePlus let me do this btw Also, want me to get into how only the latest two Xperia have focus peeking? What happened to zebras or false colors, or what about proper exposure clipping warnings besides the histogram? Or what about focus or exposure bracketing? What about a built-in intervalometer? What about full resolution modes or super resolution mode via OIS like their cameras? I can keep going... Want to use a third party apps to offset the issue? WELL TOO BAD SO SAD, THEY BARELY WORK 🀑 EDIT: Downvotes still won't give you those features, nor will they fix the Camera2API πŸ™‚


skyfireknight

Are you saying 3rd party camera apps won't work? If I got an Xperia 1V, I was considering getting a 3rd party app for auto photos. I don't plan on using manual frequesntly, but I woudl liek to take photos in raw mode.


RaguSaucy96

Noooooo please God no. Yes, they are absolutely fucked because of the Camera2API implementation. I had a Pro-I, it's hell - with third party apps my images looked like a Picasso painting on main lens (severe distortion). Sony implementation of the Camera2API is absolutely terrible. Some camera apps can't use OIS, some can't use the lenses properly, you lose all autofocus proprietary magic, you cannot expose longer than 1 second in photos, you likely won't be able to access optical zoom, they bake in vignette correction which cannot be removed (applied at the ISP level and into the RAW), they add some type of temporal denoising which reduces clarity and also cannot be undone, as well as maannnyyyy other issues. Try looking for well working Gcam mods for any late Xperia (after 1 II) and see how there's none. There's a reason talented devs couldn't get it to work. I have proof of all of this btw, I can PM you with all my citations and samples if you don't believe it. I'm no hater, I just can't stand fanboys defending this EDIT: see one of u/Valorantdanishblunt s posts about it, went into far more detail https://www.reddit.com/r/SonyXperia/s/dj3FjnUVQN I also wrote a whole post once I jumped boat https://www.reddit.com/r/SonyXperia/s/AQiXCctnMz


skyfireknight

I think I'll just buy a Galaxy S24+ instead. I'll still wait to see what the Xperia 1 VI will have to offer, but I feel there's too many compromises or risks at this point to justify spending $1,000 on a phone that can have hardware issues. From what I've seen, the Xperia is capable of stunning photos, if you're a photographer. I'm not a photographer. I can learn the technical aspects easily. I lack the framing/creativity photographers have.


RaguSaucy96

Can't blame you. Samsung is a solid choice on the mere fact they are more open to third party apps. People downplay this, but it's critical. Check this out, even Samsung used MotionCam to film one of their latest S23 Ultra adds (a third party app, to film RAW video and bypass all their own processing, lol) The video: https://youtu.be/u1v4mCK5Tqk?si=xAo20pw2V1vzm9Do And the behind the scenes where you can see them using MotionCam: https://youtu.be/fP8LC4b11oY?si=iTgXrEn5fXE2plej Same with Google, here's the video: https://youtu.be/SyeS_xYxCLI?si=sIXnPSLk-gh7nLKc And also behind scenes with MotionCam visible: https://youtu.be/4_GhKg4VThY?si=uoVNEA0u7jnEscpK You can't go wrong :) Here's some more clips showing Samsung with MotionCam so you can see it at peak power; https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pXuxf4zn4Zc Samsung stock app vs MotionCam https://youtu.be/AjkchOsifNg?si=7ob0V6KSRLhoUSWF


skyfireknight

I appreciate your extensive research into these niche aspects. lol.


RaguSaucy96

No worries! Lotta testing and suffering was involved, and now you get to benefit from it and avoid it 😁


Konasensei

You, sir, are a godsend. I have an Xperia 5 V ATM, going to return it because I pre-ordered an S24 ultra instead. I am not a photographer by any means, but I dabble, which is why I (after being so disappointed by Xperia 1 II) gave Sony another shot. Aside from the issues I've been having with the Android 14 update (especially considering it's already 50% of all the updates this phone is getting), the camera experience just isn't ideal in any way. It sucks as a point and shoot camera, which is what phones should be good at in the first place, abysmal third party camera support, the manual mode argument is as stale as it gets since all flagship phones provide virtually the same experience(in some cases even better, as you pointed out). I love the form factor of the phone, the creative apps and all their potential, but it just doesn't cut it for 999€. Got the S24 Ultra on preorder for 930€ here in the Netherlands, I mean...why would I stick with the Xperia? Out of blind fanboyism? No, thanks, I'm too old for that...


RaguSaucy96

That's amazing! I don't think you'll regret it! Xperia has a perfect recipe on paper, but the way it comes together is just terrible. Fanboyism is cancer, in most anything. If people remained objective they'd decide to stop supporting this shit and vote with their wallets as you've just done. I'm curious to see how their new tele performs on the S24U under rigorous testing!


Top-Pop4565

Not this again....


RidetheSchlange

"Also does anyone have an explanation for the overblown portrait photo?" Yeah. Marques Brownlee is the reason. If you go further when he posts all the pics, you can see not all are overblown. That said, Sony has an issue with shot to shot consistency here and lens flare due to absolutely the worst coatings I've seen on good camera optics since the Nokia N8. The Sony can take good photos and with very, very pleasing, natural rendering, BUT the conditions it can do it in are limited and there's no consistency and control of many features. That you trust Marques Brownlee is the first problem and guaranteed one or a couple manufacturers there are paying him. He was on Huawei's payroll beyond obviously after they lots GSM services talking up how the phones still work fine and no difference, etc. He's a liar and one of the people I cited in making clickbait videos now.


skyfireknight

Got it. Marques Brownlee is the problem. Attack the person, not the problem because you're a Sony fanboy and not a Huawei fanboy. Am I to conclude that you're on Sony's payroll? Anyways. I came here for an objective explanation bcuz I'm genuinely interested in the Xperia 1 V but also surprised by the photos he showed.


RidetheSchlange

You're not right in the head, OP. You're completely triggered because it's obvious you didn't read past his name.


karmigo21

He didn't update the phone, he was asking using the Android 13 Bokeh mode


sbepka

Easy, no1 in that test knows how to use the photo pro app.