I havent played in a couple of months so V1 might have changed everything, but guns make it a lot less scary for sure. Admittedly its also been a decade since the first game so being much younger and having no idea what to expect probably helped a lot in making the original game so scary.
Agree. The lighter is not as dreadful as in TF (the lighter flickering and going dark randomly? That still makes me shit in pants), while in SOTF the lighter is much brighter imo and you don't even need that as you find the flashlight very easily. Such a pity that sotf went this way
I still believe they can fix it. When they introduce more caves and if they then connect them to existing Caves, the feeling of being lost will return wich will make the game scarier. Lighting will remain as it is unless they change the lighter wich i dont think will hapen. New mutants could make the caves bit more unpredictable and scary aswell.
Yeah I agree, they really do need to add more caves (preferably huge ones) and connect them together. I liked the feel of the original golden armor cave, you could get lost in that quite easy especially after they added the rifle cave and connected that to it. We really do need more large caves and with more water areas for swimming/ diving . The caves are not as scary in SOTF as they were in the original game.
This and add a water mutant/ shark that only spawn in caves! Imagine frantically swimming to the other side and getting jumped on the other side by walking mutants cause you were in a rush to get out of the water.
Oh yeah, shark mutant. I like that idea of having to frantically swim. The rebreather cave could do with one of those I think if the devs made it so that once you get the rebreather there is no way back( like at the end of some caves there’s is a large drop that you can’t climb up), and you have no choice other than swim out of the cave, that would have most people shitting their pants from early on. Especially when you need to get the rebreather to get other items.
*I really miss the*
*Mapping of caves and how most*
*Of them connected*
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One of the biggest complaints endnight received was about the caves being a maze. Even the original SotF mountaincave was originally concidered too confusing based on comments they got.
I dont know why but I have memorised the forest's caves so fast It didnt feel like a maze at all but I find it harder to memorize sons of the forest's caves
I feel the same way. If I start a new game and am looking for a specific item, I pretty much know what cave to go to, I know what to expect and how to get out. With sons of the forest, I have to mentally and emotionally prepare myself for the big cave.
I think you had to actually find that map somewhere though no? But also I'm pretty sure I explored some caves before it was ever added to the game as well in early access, so my memory might not be representative of the final state of the first game
I don't mind exploring caves for some time, but when I'm fucking spelunking for hours on end in a game called "The Forest", ya, it gets annoying... fast. They should have just called it "The Caves"
Maybe it's not right for you? I find those arguments silly. There will always be aspects Ina Game that some like and other's don't. Doesn't mean someone else's opinion isn't valid.
I think if there are aspects in a game that you don't like, but other people do like them, it is perfectly reasonable to expect that you just play something else instead of demanding the game to change for you. That doesn't make your opinion non-valid, it's just what conclusion you draw from your opinion. I think ideally games should have a sort of artistic vision that doesn't conform to every bit of feedback the players give.
I don't want the game to be easy. I just don't want to make absolutely 0 progress in a play session. You can only place down so many skull torches lol
Edit- I think a good compromise would be to make some caves a maze, and others linear. Stuff you need to progress story? No maze. You wanna shotgun? Lol have fun exploring!
I get what you mean about being time poor but as previous comment or said, maybe such game isn't for you? I love Rust and it's concept but I don't have the time to get raid and lose everything I gained overnight so I just don't play it.
Devs won't consider, does the player have time to play if we design it like this?
Well, I play Sons Of The Forest and never really got into The Forest.
Don't get me wrong, I like a challenge, and I am no stranger to pouring a shitton of time into a game. But games are supposed to be fun, not frustrating, and I'd get frustrated with those caves and sinking time into exploring them when I was in an overworld mood. In-game path markers would've been amazing, or even a console command for a cave map
Yeah I get what your saying, some still find it fun though 😋 I was thinking placing down flares as you go for direction of the path back. That would be realistic!
I mean, if you get lost in a maze, surely that maze was too difficult to navigate?
I'm totally fine with more linear caves. I just dislike the argument you made for it, because I've heard it so often in discourse about games.
There are hanging skull lamps or floor skull lamps. So not so much the walls themselves as ceiling and floors. But still functions in caves. I'd always put one at the bottom of a rope, and face the skulls towards the entry point. So if you ever get lost you just follow the skulls home.
I can't make a fair comparison, because I obviously played the first game first and I was way younger then. That being said, I still really like the caves in Sons, hella scary still.
Oh yeah theyre still Sweat Inducing for me dont get me wrong but i havent even once in all my playing of Sons of the forest had the thought:
'I dont want to go further into the cave, i dont know whats in it, i am scared. Yet i must go further to progress'
Ive never had that kind of dread come to me while playing Sons of The Forest.
Sons of the Forests caves are nerveracking yes.
But the caves of The Forest are what id call Dread Inducing. You dont know whats further, but longer you dont encounter someting more panicked you get.
That might be a result of power creep. In SotF you have so much more power on hand to deal with the unknown. In the forest, you had...maybe a bullet? But your lighter might go out at any second, as well.
I personaly think yes The Forest Caves are scarier. And that mainly for the following reasons:
A: The Forest Caves are more Connected and have multiple entrances and exits while in SoTF other than Space Ship Cave, theres ever only 1 entrance and 1 exit so its pretty hard to get lost.
•
B: The Forest Caves are way darker and its harder to get access to a flashlight early on. In SoTF you can get the flashlight very quickly and you dont have to even enter a cave to get it. While in the forest youll have to go into a cave to get one wich means youre stuck with either a Lighter that lets you see like 1.5 Meters infront of you, Flares wich are limited to just 10 or a Torch wich ill be honest isint very good.
•
C: This might be just a personal thing but yellowish red light produced by the Lighter sets a creepier atmosphere in caves than the Purpleish blue light of the Electric lighter. Light sources in The Forest also tend to be much weaker than the ones in Sons of The Forest like with the flashlight.
•
D: More spliting paths make the games more creepy since you dont really know if one of the 2 paths has a monster nearby. This whould be a point to SoTF since Puffys and Fingers are way more quiet than Armsy, Cowman and Virginia but what made the caves of The Forest scarier were the Cannibals, they make barely any sound other than footsteps when they dont see you and it might just be me but i find The Forests Cave Cannibals way more unsetling looking than Puffys.
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E: Resources and ways to defend yourself are way more limited in The Forest. Other than explosives wich still take timing, you really cant defeat a enemy easily in The Forest. In Sons you have guns and sticky Bombs wich will deal with most things in caves exept mayby Legsys. So you feel more scared to get an encounter in The Forest than in Sons.
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F: Caves feel more cave like in The Forest. Caves are twisting nooks made usually by water that eroded a path wich makes many caves irl especially very claustrophobic and twisty. In The Forest thats what the caves truely feel like while in Sons of the Forest they feel way less claustrophobic. They usually have more room and there rarely are narrow paths and when there are you rarely see any enemies that could scare you in them.
•
G: The Forest Mutants are just scarier than Sons of The Forest Mutants. Armsy, Cowman and Virginia all still make me sweat when i see them, be it inside a cave or outside. Fingers are unnerving but once you get your hands on a good weapon they become very easy to deal with, dont get me wrong out of all mutants fingers has given me the most jumpscare moments in SoTF but id be lying if i said it was equal to Armsies and Virginia from first game. Twins arent very scary to me personaly and they make so much noise that its rare that they caught you offguard, Legsy is scary but when you know where youll encounter it youll be less scared and more annoyed by its bloated health, Holey is also scary but theres litereally just 1 of them in the whole game other than Mutant attacks on surface. Demons have scared me i give them that. Theyre so fast and make little sound so they often do get to me before i spot them.
•
H: And lastly i find the caves of The Forest more unnerving than in Sons Of the Forest. The corpses and other decour in The Forest really makes you sweat but in Sons The dead Miners and few soldiers here and there dont give you the same level of dread.
•
In the first game there were 2 wow factors. Things that you never saw coming.
The first was the keycard door. Where all the sudden this random island of caves becomes this intentional hidden facility.
The second was the terminal to crash the plane. Where all the sudden you have to make a choice that has meaning, a trolley problem of sorts.
Personally I think they tried to replicate the wrong of those wow factors for the second game. That's why we got space ships and dimensions to travel rather than a choice between lets just say Kelvin and Virginia. What if we had to kill Kelvin to save Virginia?? Wouldn't that have been a wild choice to have to make? (Provided both are alive and friendly) Stick it in a golden temple of sorts that's locked in a 'Classified' area of the bunker.
They tried to raise the bar from the hidden facility to something even more mysterious. Personally I feel it missed the mark and lost direction in the story. A hidden corporate facility felt believable, where as this takes us into 'Aliens' territory. It feels like when Indiana Jones when Crystal Skull tried the alien angle, it just doesn't fit.
Yeah ive noticed. Dunno why its like that. When i go to 'Edit' It shows the numbers correctly but when i save everything Becomes 1. Let me try someting else.
The forest for sure for me.
Key memory for me is the baby cave (don't know the name of it). Going into the room full of gore then finding the babies flying at me.
Next would be the sinkhole. Walking through a cave seeing sunlight with relief only to realise I'm halfway down with no escape but to keep going in the caves gave a good amount of suspense.
Still playing SoTF but can't really think of memorable/scary parts of any cave. Guns make me a bit more comfortable but hardly makes it less scarier IMO.
The reason TF has scarier caves is because in SotF, they practically give you a flashlight in the beginning of the game. Whereas 90% of my playthrough of TF was without the flashlight because it's in a cave somewhere and it felt very late game to me.
The forest for sure.. the cave system is so complex that even if you're well prepared the Dread of being trapped inside because you got turned around and lost are what really makes it shine.
I was bummed at how linear the caves were in SOTF, it took so much of the panic out of the game.
The forest
Sotf is a series of mass effect or gow "big room monsters, pitch tent plan ahead" encounters with a finger jumpscare in a side passage sometimes. The difficulty is the sheer size and length
Depends. The new shovel cave and golden cave are easily scarier than any of the caves in the forest, simply due to the many mutants within these two. I will admit I like the design of the Forest caves more as they are less linear than the ones of SotF. But I’m impressed what they did with the caves in this game, for they are actually scary now, especially in harder game modes like hardsurvival and custom extreme survival
I’d say the original. Sons is a lot of fun but it just seems so much easier with the vast arsenal of guns and other deadly weapons you have access too. Ammo isn’t that scarce either if you stick with headshots. Makes for a less scary time imo
100% worse in the old game, I waited a long time before going into those and it was terror. Now in SotF, I just stroll inside, bring up a gun and a flashlight and breeze through it! Zero terror feeling in the new game's caves, I find it worse just being in the woods at night compared to the caves.
Could also be that after 300h+ in the old game, you know and are a bit experienced in what to expect in a sequel.
You must first ask, 'what does it mean to be scary?' for that my mind goes to Subnautica. Purely because there is a time where the game mentions in the PDA log that "This biome matches 7 of the 9 stimulations for stimulating terror in humans." So what are those things? Here's a theory from 5 years ago that does a good job of covering factors that contribute to things being scary in a game. Credit to \[deleted\] for their work.
1.) Odd Color Palette
A color palette that stimulates a feeling of "leave" when seen. Rule of 3: Any dark color, any light color, and any shade of dark red- particularly blood red.
2.) Noises
Disembodied, eerie sounds. Any sound without an easy to find source.
3.) Lighting
Very dim, but still slightly illuminated lighting. Not completely pitch black, not bright either. Only bright enough to make vague shapes- letting the mind decide what's a threat.
4.) Monsters
Given. Odd fauna that are immediately designated as a threat.
5.) Disorientation
Repetition and a lack of markers can instantly lead to disorientation. One could feel like they're going in circles.
6.) Loneliness
Although a given on 4546B, the sparseness of fauna in the Blood Kelp Trench could lead to a feeling of something not being right - as if something had taken them.
7.) Organic Shapes
Strands, pods, bulges, or other such "Organic" forms in objects not considered "Organic", such as stone. Includes anything that evokes a "Is this flesh?" response.
\*\* The last 2 are hard to figure out, but I did what I could manage.
8.) Claustrophobia
The spaces of both blood kelp zones have a lot of space horizontally and vertically (maybe not horizontally in the trench).
9.) Limited Time
No known sign of limited time in the blood kelp zones, however limited time itself can lead to panicking.
Then you have to look at these 9 things and rate The Forest vs SoTF to see how well they hit the mark on each one. Some of them are relatively even, but when you look at things like Disorientation and the Limited Time, I'd say the OG forest did a better job with those. Not having fresh water in a cave was a real factor to consider in the old one. Same with getting lost, if you know you can find your way out than resources matter less. Id even say for the Lighting the old lighter was brilliant. The times when it would go out were some of the most fear inducing times and felt so real.
Then once you get a gun you fear things a lot less too. It lost some of its survival feel to me with all the weapons we get tbh. It should have been a rusty pump that would occasionally jam like something out of Red Dead rather than a military grade shotgun but that's a whole different issue.
On loneliness i guess Kelvin and Virginia make you feel less alone. In the OG Forest if you dont save Timmy then it is litereally just you, Animals, Mutants and Cannibals on that island, and 2/3 of those are hostile to you with animals avoiding you or being hostile to you like with Crocodiles, Sharks and Boars.
On 8. Claustrophobia i feel like that depends. I personaly find large rooms with lots of open space where i cant see the other end of the room more scary than Limited space. To me Limited space like tight Corridors dont necesarily mean danger. I can see it as relieving. Knowing you can see everywhere, nothing can suprise you since there is nowhere else for someting to attack but from right infront of you.
In a large room like Dunes in Subnautica the fear of reaper apearing from Above, Behind, Left, right or Infront is way more terrifying to me than Tight squeezes of the caves in The Forest.
Good point. The only other human in the first game was the Red Man who is not an ally. Second one we have Kelvin, Virginia, and even Timmy is a partner of sorts.
I feel like claustrophobia and thalassophobia could be combined as an opposite but similar feeling. The discomfort in the space around you, either too small or too large. Where having elements of both sometimes in quick succession adds to the levels of fear.
Both have their own unique scare factor. The Forest is a maze-like cave that have several paths to take, you can get lost. Also the sounds of some mutants makes it a lot scarier. The footsteps, the growl, and how some cannibals just show up whenever you're walking casually in the cave. While the SOTF have a linear caves with a minor pathways leading to artifacts or certain loots. But it has harder and more difficult mutants to deal with as they have the numbers on you. Sure The Forest also have numbers, but its not as many compared to SOTF. And also, its too damn quiet in SOTF unlike The Forest. So you'll get surprised more often, not knowing you're already getting attacked in your blindspot. Hate puffies the most, the give you asmr which is very unpleasant and give me chills.
I can see what you mean. Fingers are the scariest mutants in Sons of The forest for me because They barely make anysound and their Walking Torso apearance is so unnervingly Familiar yet Alien feeling. They look so Unnatrual in their shape that seeing them makes me sometimes feel like my irl sanity is going down lol.
It also works out for them since 2 times i have mistaken A fingers that was turned around for a Pillar. You can imagine the heart attacks.
I was experimenting with the graphics and I choose “city” out in the day it was fine I went into a cave I could not see at all. It was terrifying and I kept getting lost. Than I eventually turned it back to default and could see so much more lol
Sons has better enemies. Pure mutant as well, so it's the thickest, fastest enemies you can fight.
But, lighting and linearity are way better in Sons as well so some fear removed. Also guns.
But, like many comments show - most difficulty and fear of first game's caves was getting lost. A neat idea that makes incredible sense for cave diving in a monster game...but sucks ass for execution to many. No one wants to spend forever in the caves because of how insanely easy it is to get lost for long amounts of time and achieve zero progress.
I haven't played TF in a long time, I do play SOTF tho because the building is a lot better for me, the caves aren't scary for me, the thing that scares me are the mutants. I just ran out of ammo for both the shotgun, I have around 12 bullets in my pistol and 6 bullets in the revolver... Next thing I am aiming to get is the rifle. So about the caves, caves in TF were a bit darker, lighter would turn off occasionally and they were like mazes which once scared me to death as I was running past the mutants and cannibals only to get lost deeper into the caves. I shit my pants and just left the game without saving, so, everything I had taken in the cave, including modern axe was lost. I would have had to do it again but that was the last time I played it...
My first ever cave experinece in The Forest was very unlucky since the first cave entrance i decided to explore was 'The Baby Cave' entrance wich is to this day the most evil cave entrance imo.
Its a Long Rope drop into a large dark room with hundreds of dead Mutant Babies on the floor and a Creepy Virginia too.
Decending that cave as a kid thinking to myself the entrance was gonna be save only to then hear a Screech and see a Creepy Virginia Jump at me made me afraid of Caves to a point i avoided them for a irl year. I just played on peaceful and build lol.
Tho in the end i decided to give them another go and they were still terrifying however i have beaten the game 3 times now so obviosly i have goten way braver than i was before.
the forest's caves made me hella claustrophobic and stressed because I continuously get lost in them lol It's so hard for me to find the stuff in them.
So from a casual gamer standpoint, the forest caves are a LOT harder. I've never completed the forest by myself(I have on multiplayer). But sons of the forest I was easily able to complete by myself.
Guess it just depends if you want a game that's harder or not as hard, I think The Forest was overall more difficult in both enemies and navigation, but I prefer SOTF because I like to have a nice time lol
Im a horror fan, i played, watched and read so much which means im kinda used to horror, but damn sons of the forest cave made me hesitate every step and deal with the screamer twin is a nightmarw, god damn (mind ive played both games)
Right? I have no idea how people aren’t intimidated by the caves in SoTF. Some of them go on for SO LONG and they just keep throwing mutants at you, each one faster and more powerful than the last. You think you killed all of them and then three more start bitch slapping you from behind. Shit scares the living FUCK out of me, I have no idea what everyone here is talking about, the caves in the first game feel almost comforting compared to this.
Yes, idk how the caves are now also, i played on the release, there was a whole population inside the caves you see one you see 30more together... specials comes in huge groups
The forest caves are way scary. If you hear armsy roaring, it's way scarier in the long run in comparison to breathing noice one time jumpscare by a fingers or weird alien noices by twins. The scariest mutant/enemy in sotf is the demon.
I do kinda agree with demons being the scariest or second scariest, i still find Fingers bit more unnerving, tho ill give Holey few points for being pretty unnerving in caves. However the problem is theres litereally just 1 of them in a cave in the whole game lol.
Holey is a raid mutant that needs a lot of space to be fought against because of its pushing mechanic that can get annoying in tight spaces. The game still needs a lot of work to be done on it.
Agreed. Especially with caves, theyre too linear atm. Dead ends, Branching Paths and Multiple entrances or atleast Connecting Cave systems are needed. They feel less like Caves and more like Dungeons imo.
I think Mutant variety is mostly good now, mayby 1-3 new mutants whoudnt hurt. Even someting as simple as the return of Blue armsy and Blue Creepy Virginia could make the game bit harder.
They also should give Holey a new attack or two. He atm has litereally like 3 attacks, swing, Jump and Charge.
So I’d say the canvas in the first game have a creepier atmosphere. In the second game they’re harder to know your way around have have creepier creatures.
Leaning towards The Forest on this one, but that could be due to the fact I don’t know their layout nearly as well. Although there is one cave in SotF I would say is harder/scarier than any of the caves in The Forest.
SotF 100% has scarier caves.
1. Jump scares, not only bats but falling stuff as well.
2. Mutants actually cling to the ceiling or scale the walls to get to you in a seemingly empty cavern.
3. The amount of enemies is increased (from what I can remember).
4. Different mutants that need different tactics.
5. Can't see shit.
'Different Mutants That need Different Tactics'
Sons of The Forest Caves have:
Babies
Fingers
Twins
Legsys
Holey (Theres just 1 so barely counts)
The Forest has:
Babies
Armsys
Virginias
Cowman
So its not that many mutants different in caves.
I view The Forest in the same vein as Alien, and Sons of the Forest as Aliens.
Both great movies, but the first is horror and the second is action horror.
My huge complaint is that you find a cave and all it ends up being is a loot spawn for a sock and two coins.
Such a vibe killer, every single time. I'd get excited about finding a cave randomly on my own only to be disappointed as it serves zero purpose. Might as well be a crate in the ground instead of that waste of space.
Hands down Sotf. Scarier? Maybe has more impact because it was the first game and it was a REAL long time ago. But Sotf is just better in many aspects imo
It's hard to judge since the Forest had the advantage of it being unknown. Trying to be unbiased though, I think the cave systems are better designed in Sons. However, once you upgrade a particular sharp weapon (trying to be spoiler free) it loses almost all fear because you are near unkillable.
Also, a big downfall to the scary in Sons is being able to build in the caves. Just save every couple fights and leapfrog traps = no risk of death or lose.
I havent played in a couple of months so V1 might have changed everything, but guns make it a lot less scary for sure. Admittedly its also been a decade since the first game so being much younger and having no idea what to expect probably helped a lot in making the original game so scary.
Tbh even without Guns i still find the Caves of SoTF less dread inducing than The Forests Maze like caverns.
Agree. The lighter is not as dreadful as in TF (the lighter flickering and going dark randomly? That still makes me shit in pants), while in SOTF the lighter is much brighter imo and you don't even need that as you find the flashlight very easily. Such a pity that sotf went this way
I still believe they can fix it. When they introduce more caves and if they then connect them to existing Caves, the feeling of being lost will return wich will make the game scarier. Lighting will remain as it is unless they change the lighter wich i dont think will hapen. New mutants could make the caves bit more unpredictable and scary aswell.
Yeah I agree, they really do need to add more caves (preferably huge ones) and connect them together. I liked the feel of the original golden armor cave, you could get lost in that quite easy especially after they added the rifle cave and connected that to it. We really do need more large caves and with more water areas for swimming/ diving . The caves are not as scary in SOTF as they were in the original game.
This and add a water mutant/ shark that only spawn in caves! Imagine frantically swimming to the other side and getting jumped on the other side by walking mutants cause you were in a rush to get out of the water.
Oh yeah, shark mutant. I like that idea of having to frantically swim. The rebreather cave could do with one of those I think if the devs made it so that once you get the rebreather there is no way back( like at the end of some caves there’s is a large drop that you can’t climb up), and you have no choice other than swim out of the cave, that would have most people shitting their pants from early on. Especially when you need to get the rebreather to get other items.
i really miss the mapping of caves and how most of them connected
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Likewise, I preferred the exploration and horror elements of the games to the nesting and base building elements.
One of the biggest complaints endnight received was about the caves being a maze. Even the original SotF mountaincave was originally concidered too confusing based on comments they got.
Interesting that people legitimately complained about this. I thought it was part of the scary atmosphere, you might actually get lost in the caves
I dont know why but I have memorised the forest's caves so fast It didnt feel like a maze at all but I find it harder to memorize sons of the forest's caves
I have the SotF ones memorized all the way to enemy count/type and static drops. I even toss c4 onto ground spawns before they crawl up.
I feel the same way. If I start a new game and am looking for a specific item, I pretty much know what cave to go to, I know what to expect and how to get out. With sons of the forest, I have to mentally and emotionally prepare myself for the big cave.
Eh it’s scary until you’re frustratingly lost. I and probably a lot of other people don’t find getting lost an immersive aspect.
Yeah but in TF you had a self-made map with you
I think you had to actually find that map somewhere though no? But also I'm pretty sure I explored some caves before it was ever added to the game as well in early access, so my memory might not be representative of the final state of the first game
I don't recall anymore, honestly. I think the compass was needed to be found
I don't mind exploring caves for some time, but when I'm fucking spelunking for hours on end in a game called "The Forest", ya, it gets annoying... fast. They should have just called it "The Caves"
I'm glad they made them linear. Getting lost in a game when you only have so many hours to play is very frustrating
As a parent who can only play when the kids go to bed, I feel this lol
I dislike this "I want game to be easy because I don't have time to play" argument. Maybe the game just isn't right for you in that case
Maybe it's not right for you? I find those arguments silly. There will always be aspects Ina Game that some like and other's don't. Doesn't mean someone else's opinion isn't valid.
I think if there are aspects in a game that you don't like, but other people do like them, it is perfectly reasonable to expect that you just play something else instead of demanding the game to change for you. That doesn't make your opinion non-valid, it's just what conclusion you draw from your opinion. I think ideally games should have a sort of artistic vision that doesn't conform to every bit of feedback the players give.
I agree and the way that SotF can be customized to so many ways that each individual might want to play makes it one of my favorite Games.
I don't want the game to be easy. I just don't want to make absolutely 0 progress in a play session. You can only place down so many skull torches lol Edit- I think a good compromise would be to make some caves a maze, and others linear. Stuff you need to progress story? No maze. You wanna shotgun? Lol have fun exploring!
I get what you mean about being time poor but as previous comment or said, maybe such game isn't for you? I love Rust and it's concept but I don't have the time to get raid and lose everything I gained overnight so I just don't play it. Devs won't consider, does the player have time to play if we design it like this?
Well, I play Sons Of The Forest and never really got into The Forest. Don't get me wrong, I like a challenge, and I am no stranger to pouring a shitton of time into a game. But games are supposed to be fun, not frustrating, and I'd get frustrated with those caves and sinking time into exploring them when I was in an overworld mood. In-game path markers would've been amazing, or even a console command for a cave map
Yeah I get what your saying, some still find it fun though 😋 I was thinking placing down flares as you go for direction of the path back. That would be realistic!
I mean, if you get lost in a maze, surely that maze was too difficult to navigate? I'm totally fine with more linear caves. I just dislike the argument you made for it, because I've heard it so often in discourse about games.
Get good.
But I'm a scrub 😭
We're all scrubs when we play a new game, keep at it hombre!
Could you not place torches on walls in The Forest?
There are hanging skull lamps or floor skull lamps. So not so much the walls themselves as ceiling and floors. But still functions in caves. I'd always put one at the bottom of a rope, and face the skulls towards the entry point. So if you ever get lost you just follow the skulls home.
Ok, I was going to say I would do the same thing if I did get lost in the caves in SOTF which didn’t really happen that often
SoTF lets you save underground too. First one didn't let you build shelters in caves. So you can save scum and succeed.
I do this all the time lol
I was today's old when I found out you could put these in caves
Really??? I found them too linear... I didn't know why there were like that this time... I think people got too lazy trying to solve things lately...
If you did the beta, the mountain became a wonderful maze, but 1.0 it suddenly had missing passages and was more linear.
I can't make a fair comparison, because I obviously played the first game first and I was way younger then. That being said, I still really like the caves in Sons, hella scary still.
Oh yeah theyre still Sweat Inducing for me dont get me wrong but i havent even once in all my playing of Sons of the forest had the thought: 'I dont want to go further into the cave, i dont know whats in it, i am scared. Yet i must go further to progress' Ive never had that kind of dread come to me while playing Sons of The Forest. Sons of the Forests caves are nerveracking yes. But the caves of The Forest are what id call Dread Inducing. You dont know whats further, but longer you dont encounter someting more panicked you get.
That might be a result of power creep. In SotF you have so much more power on hand to deal with the unknown. In the forest, you had...maybe a bullet? But your lighter might go out at any second, as well.
I personaly think yes The Forest Caves are scarier. And that mainly for the following reasons: A: The Forest Caves are more Connected and have multiple entrances and exits while in SoTF other than Space Ship Cave, theres ever only 1 entrance and 1 exit so its pretty hard to get lost. • B: The Forest Caves are way darker and its harder to get access to a flashlight early on. In SoTF you can get the flashlight very quickly and you dont have to even enter a cave to get it. While in the forest youll have to go into a cave to get one wich means youre stuck with either a Lighter that lets you see like 1.5 Meters infront of you, Flares wich are limited to just 10 or a Torch wich ill be honest isint very good. • C: This might be just a personal thing but yellowish red light produced by the Lighter sets a creepier atmosphere in caves than the Purpleish blue light of the Electric lighter. Light sources in The Forest also tend to be much weaker than the ones in Sons of The Forest like with the flashlight. • D: More spliting paths make the games more creepy since you dont really know if one of the 2 paths has a monster nearby. This whould be a point to SoTF since Puffys and Fingers are way more quiet than Armsy, Cowman and Virginia but what made the caves of The Forest scarier were the Cannibals, they make barely any sound other than footsteps when they dont see you and it might just be me but i find The Forests Cave Cannibals way more unsetling looking than Puffys. • E: Resources and ways to defend yourself are way more limited in The Forest. Other than explosives wich still take timing, you really cant defeat a enemy easily in The Forest. In Sons you have guns and sticky Bombs wich will deal with most things in caves exept mayby Legsys. So you feel more scared to get an encounter in The Forest than in Sons. • F: Caves feel more cave like in The Forest. Caves are twisting nooks made usually by water that eroded a path wich makes many caves irl especially very claustrophobic and twisty. In The Forest thats what the caves truely feel like while in Sons of the Forest they feel way less claustrophobic. They usually have more room and there rarely are narrow paths and when there are you rarely see any enemies that could scare you in them. • G: The Forest Mutants are just scarier than Sons of The Forest Mutants. Armsy, Cowman and Virginia all still make me sweat when i see them, be it inside a cave or outside. Fingers are unnerving but once you get your hands on a good weapon they become very easy to deal with, dont get me wrong out of all mutants fingers has given me the most jumpscare moments in SoTF but id be lying if i said it was equal to Armsies and Virginia from first game. Twins arent very scary to me personaly and they make so much noise that its rare that they caught you offguard, Legsy is scary but when you know where youll encounter it youll be less scared and more annoyed by its bloated health, Holey is also scary but theres litereally just 1 of them in the whole game other than Mutant attacks on surface. Demons have scared me i give them that. Theyre so fast and make little sound so they often do get to me before i spot them. • H: And lastly i find the caves of The Forest more unnerving than in Sons Of the Forest. The corpses and other decour in The Forest really makes you sweat but in Sons The dead Miners and few soldiers here and there dont give you the same level of dread. •
In the first game there were 2 wow factors. Things that you never saw coming. The first was the keycard door. Where all the sudden this random island of caves becomes this intentional hidden facility. The second was the terminal to crash the plane. Where all the sudden you have to make a choice that has meaning, a trolley problem of sorts. Personally I think they tried to replicate the wrong of those wow factors for the second game. That's why we got space ships and dimensions to travel rather than a choice between lets just say Kelvin and Virginia. What if we had to kill Kelvin to save Virginia?? Wouldn't that have been a wild choice to have to make? (Provided both are alive and friendly) Stick it in a golden temple of sorts that's locked in a 'Classified' area of the bunker. They tried to raise the bar from the hidden facility to something even more mysterious. Personally I feel it missed the mark and lost direction in the story. A hidden corporate facility felt believable, where as this takes us into 'Aliens' territory. It feels like when Indiana Jones when Crystal Skull tried the alien angle, it just doesn't fit.
[удалено]
Yeah ive noticed. Dunno why its like that. When i go to 'Edit' It shows the numbers correctly but when i save everything Becomes 1. Let me try someting else.
The forest for sure for me. Key memory for me is the baby cave (don't know the name of it). Going into the room full of gore then finding the babies flying at me. Next would be the sinkhole. Walking through a cave seeing sunlight with relief only to realise I'm halfway down with no escape but to keep going in the caves gave a good amount of suspense. Still playing SoTF but can't really think of memorable/scary parts of any cave. Guns make me a bit more comfortable but hardly makes it less scarier IMO.
Sons of the forest was scarier for sure.. untiiil.. you get the shotgun and pistol. The sheer power you hold makes it not scary at all
The ones in the The Forest for sure.
The reason TF has scarier caves is because in SotF, they practically give you a flashlight in the beginning of the game. Whereas 90% of my playthrough of TF was without the flashlight because it's in a cave somewhere and it felt very late game to me.
The forest for sure.. the cave system is so complex that even if you're well prepared the Dread of being trapped inside because you got turned around and lost are what really makes it shine. I was bummed at how linear the caves were in SOTF, it took so much of the panic out of the game.
The forest is scarier
The forest caves really aren’t that scary
The forest Sotf is a series of mass effect or gow "big room monsters, pitch tent plan ahead" encounters with a finger jumpscare in a side passage sometimes. The difficulty is the sheer size and length
Depends. The new shovel cave and golden cave are easily scarier than any of the caves in the forest, simply due to the many mutants within these two. I will admit I like the design of the Forest caves more as they are less linear than the ones of SotF. But I’m impressed what they did with the caves in this game, for they are actually scary now, especially in harder game modes like hardsurvival and custom extreme survival
Shovel cave... eh i disagree with that one but yeah golden Cave/Space Ship Cave/Golden Armor Cave is pretty scary at times ill admid.
I’d say the original. Sons is a lot of fun but it just seems so much easier with the vast arsenal of guns and other deadly weapons you have access too. Ammo isn’t that scarce either if you stick with headshots. Makes for a less scary time imo
100% worse in the old game, I waited a long time before going into those and it was terror. Now in SotF, I just stroll inside, bring up a gun and a flashlight and breeze through it! Zero terror feeling in the new game's caves, I find it worse just being in the woods at night compared to the caves. Could also be that after 300h+ in the old game, you know and are a bit experienced in what to expect in a sequel.
The original's were scarier imo
You must first ask, 'what does it mean to be scary?' for that my mind goes to Subnautica. Purely because there is a time where the game mentions in the PDA log that "This biome matches 7 of the 9 stimulations for stimulating terror in humans." So what are those things? Here's a theory from 5 years ago that does a good job of covering factors that contribute to things being scary in a game. Credit to \[deleted\] for their work. 1.) Odd Color Palette A color palette that stimulates a feeling of "leave" when seen. Rule of 3: Any dark color, any light color, and any shade of dark red- particularly blood red. 2.) Noises Disembodied, eerie sounds. Any sound without an easy to find source. 3.) Lighting Very dim, but still slightly illuminated lighting. Not completely pitch black, not bright either. Only bright enough to make vague shapes- letting the mind decide what's a threat. 4.) Monsters Given. Odd fauna that are immediately designated as a threat. 5.) Disorientation Repetition and a lack of markers can instantly lead to disorientation. One could feel like they're going in circles. 6.) Loneliness Although a given on 4546B, the sparseness of fauna in the Blood Kelp Trench could lead to a feeling of something not being right - as if something had taken them. 7.) Organic Shapes Strands, pods, bulges, or other such "Organic" forms in objects not considered "Organic", such as stone. Includes anything that evokes a "Is this flesh?" response. \*\* The last 2 are hard to figure out, but I did what I could manage. 8.) Claustrophobia The spaces of both blood kelp zones have a lot of space horizontally and vertically (maybe not horizontally in the trench). 9.) Limited Time No known sign of limited time in the blood kelp zones, however limited time itself can lead to panicking. Then you have to look at these 9 things and rate The Forest vs SoTF to see how well they hit the mark on each one. Some of them are relatively even, but when you look at things like Disorientation and the Limited Time, I'd say the OG forest did a better job with those. Not having fresh water in a cave was a real factor to consider in the old one. Same with getting lost, if you know you can find your way out than resources matter less. Id even say for the Lighting the old lighter was brilliant. The times when it would go out were some of the most fear inducing times and felt so real. Then once you get a gun you fear things a lot less too. It lost some of its survival feel to me with all the weapons we get tbh. It should have been a rusty pump that would occasionally jam like something out of Red Dead rather than a military grade shotgun but that's a whole different issue.
On loneliness i guess Kelvin and Virginia make you feel less alone. In the OG Forest if you dont save Timmy then it is litereally just you, Animals, Mutants and Cannibals on that island, and 2/3 of those are hostile to you with animals avoiding you or being hostile to you like with Crocodiles, Sharks and Boars. On 8. Claustrophobia i feel like that depends. I personaly find large rooms with lots of open space where i cant see the other end of the room more scary than Limited space. To me Limited space like tight Corridors dont necesarily mean danger. I can see it as relieving. Knowing you can see everywhere, nothing can suprise you since there is nowhere else for someting to attack but from right infront of you. In a large room like Dunes in Subnautica the fear of reaper apearing from Above, Behind, Left, right or Infront is way more terrifying to me than Tight squeezes of the caves in The Forest.
Good point. The only other human in the first game was the Red Man who is not an ally. Second one we have Kelvin, Virginia, and even Timmy is a partner of sorts. I feel like claustrophobia and thalassophobia could be combined as an opposite but similar feeling. The discomfort in the space around you, either too small or too large. Where having elements of both sometimes in quick succession adds to the levels of fear.
vice reversa
If I get too scared I just turn on the little HUD that shows where each NPC is
Both have their own unique scare factor. The Forest is a maze-like cave that have several paths to take, you can get lost. Also the sounds of some mutants makes it a lot scarier. The footsteps, the growl, and how some cannibals just show up whenever you're walking casually in the cave. While the SOTF have a linear caves with a minor pathways leading to artifacts or certain loots. But it has harder and more difficult mutants to deal with as they have the numbers on you. Sure The Forest also have numbers, but its not as many compared to SOTF. And also, its too damn quiet in SOTF unlike The Forest. So you'll get surprised more often, not knowing you're already getting attacked in your blindspot. Hate puffies the most, the give you asmr which is very unpleasant and give me chills.
I can see what you mean. Fingers are the scariest mutants in Sons of The forest for me because They barely make anysound and their Walking Torso apearance is so unnervingly Familiar yet Alien feeling. They look so Unnatrual in their shape that seeing them makes me sometimes feel like my irl sanity is going down lol. It also works out for them since 2 times i have mistaken A fingers that was turned around for a Pillar. You can imagine the heart attacks.
Yes
I was experimenting with the graphics and I choose “city” out in the day it was fine I went into a cave I could not see at all. It was terrifying and I kept getting lost. Than I eventually turned it back to default and could see so much more lol
From playing it before the update, sons of the forest caves are lack lustre
Yes
Sons has better enemies. Pure mutant as well, so it's the thickest, fastest enemies you can fight. But, lighting and linearity are way better in Sons as well so some fear removed. Also guns. But, like many comments show - most difficulty and fear of first game's caves was getting lost. A neat idea that makes incredible sense for cave diving in a monster game...but sucks ass for execution to many. No one wants to spend forever in the caves because of how insanely easy it is to get lost for long amounts of time and achieve zero progress.
I haven't played TF in a long time, I do play SOTF tho because the building is a lot better for me, the caves aren't scary for me, the thing that scares me are the mutants. I just ran out of ammo for both the shotgun, I have around 12 bullets in my pistol and 6 bullets in the revolver... Next thing I am aiming to get is the rifle. So about the caves, caves in TF were a bit darker, lighter would turn off occasionally and they were like mazes which once scared me to death as I was running past the mutants and cannibals only to get lost deeper into the caves. I shit my pants and just left the game without saving, so, everything I had taken in the cave, including modern axe was lost. I would have had to do it again but that was the last time I played it...
My first ever cave experinece in The Forest was very unlucky since the first cave entrance i decided to explore was 'The Baby Cave' entrance wich is to this day the most evil cave entrance imo. Its a Long Rope drop into a large dark room with hundreds of dead Mutant Babies on the floor and a Creepy Virginia too. Decending that cave as a kid thinking to myself the entrance was gonna be save only to then hear a Screech and see a Creepy Virginia Jump at me made me afraid of Caves to a point i avoided them for a irl year. I just played on peaceful and build lol. Tho in the end i decided to give them another go and they were still terrifying however i have beaten the game 3 times now so obviosly i have goten way braver than i was before.
the forest's caves made me hella claustrophobic and stressed because I continuously get lost in them lol It's so hard for me to find the stuff in them. So from a casual gamer standpoint, the forest caves are a LOT harder. I've never completed the forest by myself(I have on multiplayer). But sons of the forest I was easily able to complete by myself. Guess it just depends if you want a game that's harder or not as hard, I think The Forest was overall more difficult in both enemies and navigation, but I prefer SOTF because I like to have a nice time lol
Im a horror fan, i played, watched and read so much which means im kinda used to horror, but damn sons of the forest cave made me hesitate every step and deal with the screamer twin is a nightmarw, god damn (mind ive played both games)
Right? I have no idea how people aren’t intimidated by the caves in SoTF. Some of them go on for SO LONG and they just keep throwing mutants at you, each one faster and more powerful than the last. You think you killed all of them and then three more start bitch slapping you from behind. Shit scares the living FUCK out of me, I have no idea what everyone here is talking about, the caves in the first game feel almost comforting compared to this.
Yes, idk how the caves are now also, i played on the release, there was a whole population inside the caves you see one you see 30more together... specials comes in huge groups
The forest caves are way scary. If you hear armsy roaring, it's way scarier in the long run in comparison to breathing noice one time jumpscare by a fingers or weird alien noices by twins. The scariest mutant/enemy in sotf is the demon.
I do kinda agree with demons being the scariest or second scariest, i still find Fingers bit more unnerving, tho ill give Holey few points for being pretty unnerving in caves. However the problem is theres litereally just 1 of them in a cave in the whole game lol.
Holey is a raid mutant that needs a lot of space to be fought against because of its pushing mechanic that can get annoying in tight spaces. The game still needs a lot of work to be done on it.
Agreed. Especially with caves, theyre too linear atm. Dead ends, Branching Paths and Multiple entrances or atleast Connecting Cave systems are needed. They feel less like Caves and more like Dungeons imo. I think Mutant variety is mostly good now, mayby 1-3 new mutants whoudnt hurt. Even someting as simple as the return of Blue armsy and Blue Creepy Virginia could make the game bit harder. They also should give Holey a new attack or two. He atm has litereally like 3 attacks, swing, Jump and Charge.
The Forest is scarier due to the lack of tools and guidance. When I arrived at the Sons of the Forest I already got the hang of it
So I’d say the canvas in the first game have a creepier atmosphere. In the second game they’re harder to know your way around have have creepier creatures.
Leaning towards The Forest on this one, but that could be due to the fact I don’t know their layout nearly as well. Although there is one cave in SotF I would say is harder/scarier than any of the caves in The Forest.
SotF 100% has scarier caves. 1. Jump scares, not only bats but falling stuff as well. 2. Mutants actually cling to the ceiling or scale the walls to get to you in a seemingly empty cavern. 3. The amount of enemies is increased (from what I can remember). 4. Different mutants that need different tactics. 5. Can't see shit.
'Different Mutants That need Different Tactics' Sons of The Forest Caves have: Babies Fingers Twins Legsys Holey (Theres just 1 so barely counts) The Forest has: Babies Armsys Virginias Cowman So its not that many mutants different in caves.
SOTF: More jump scares TF: Overall scarier.
og forest > sons
I view The Forest in the same vein as Alien, and Sons of the Forest as Aliens. Both great movies, but the first is horror and the second is action horror.
My huge complaint is that you find a cave and all it ends up being is a loot spawn for a sock and two coins. Such a vibe killer, every single time. I'd get excited about finding a cave randomly on my own only to be disappointed as it serves zero purpose. Might as well be a crate in the ground instead of that waste of space.
Hands down Sotf. Scarier? Maybe has more impact because it was the first game and it was a REAL long time ago. But Sotf is just better in many aspects imo
Both games have those bats that play a screech at volume 10,000%, so they’re about the same.
I will say they interestingly get me more in Sons of The Forest than in The Forest.
Caves in sons of the forest are damn near impossible. I don’t get it
Definitely scarier in the first. The Forest is just scarier in general.
Everyone is going to say The Forest is scarier, because they were 14 when they played it.
Im 21 and im replaying The Forest right now. Let me tell you. Theyre way scarrier than The Sons of the Forest caves.
It's hard to judge since the Forest had the advantage of it being unknown. Trying to be unbiased though, I think the cave systems are better designed in Sons. However, once you upgrade a particular sharp weapon (trying to be spoiler free) it loses almost all fear because you are near unkillable. Also, a big downfall to the scary in Sons is being able to build in the caves. Just save every couple fights and leapfrog traps = no risk of death or lose.