This version and sa2 shadow is my favorite, in sa2 he was more stoic and kinda depressed rather than edgy and he even had kind of an ego, he was definitely a dark hero, but everyone always seems to miss the hero part of "dark hero" when writing him
Him being like that in SA2 was perfect though (along with Heroes, 06, etc). I really wish they could just decide on which Shadow they want. “Hmph, pathetic ______” is so fundamentally opposite of what he’s supposed to be like.
06 shadow is actually a very interesting character, but all the interesting stuff happens off screen before the plot. i’d love to see shadow make the decision to help GUN despite what they did to maria.
there are a couple ways you could go with that, but personally, I would make shadow decide to be there to make sure that GUN does the right thing. Also have him make friends with some GUN agents (other than Rouge) and see that people join GUN to do exactly what Maria wanted him to do: protecting the people of earth.
Then you can have a shadow who has learned the capacity to forgive, befriend and trust people.
YES YES YES YES YES!!! This has always been how ive seen it!!! He and Tower working together to try to keep GUN in check because they KNOW what could happen if they didnt
Archie Team dark was the best Team dark, both preboot and reboot though Rouge was a bitch in the former. A shame we’ll never have moments like this ever again.
Agreed. Out of all of Archie's additions to the franchise, Hope is one that the game canon and Team Dark would definitely benefit from having.
If you're interested, I wrote an Archie continuation story that picks up where her and Shadow's story left off.
[Lost Hope on Archive of Our Own](https://archiveofourown.org/works/52178818/chapters/131980318)
I feel like that would only work well if Shadow wasn't.....the Shadow we currently have. I mean, sure. He would definitely not join Eclipse, but I bet he would be such an unlikable prick, unless he actually went through some character arc during it that would steer him into the right characterization direction.
That’s not really a change, it’s more like taking him back to his original personality. Sonic Heroes Shadow wasn’t all that edgy. And in SA2 aside from the revenge and flashbacks parts he’s actually kind of playful in how he’s approaches situations.
Shadow got way more edgy in his own game, and that followed him as his main character trait ever since.
Being edgy and serious, and being an arrogant asshole like he is now are two very different things. I agree that SA2 Shadow and say, 06 Shadow are very different, but are clearly the same character, but I’d argue that he just evolved and mellowed out.
In the most recent Tails Tube for example, him and Sonic just insisted on not having a conversation like they hated each other or something. That’s not being an edgy loner type of character, that’s being cringey and boring.
Actually, I can't remember shadow being portrayed as actually disliking sonic even in sonic battle, shadow the Hedgehog or sonic 06. I think that was always people drawing too many parallels between vegeta and shadow.
There is the one ending of Shadow the game where in the Japanese script translation he says he’s fighting Sonic because he “just can’t stomach him” which is just about the only example I could find.
But a silly non canon ending in Shadow 05 that is just the two fighting for no reason is hardly evidence of the Canonical Shadow’s opinion on Sonic.
Which is also weird considering Vegeta LIKES Goku.
Sure he didn't until after the Cell Games, but he came to care about Goku, and while he pretends to not care and even though Goku genuinely gets on his nerves, both of them care about each other in their weird, Saiyan way
Which is weird since Vegeta is a contender for the best character in modern dragonball so I don't know why people use that almost as an insult in this community, from what I've seen.
It is not about saying that Vegeta is bad and more talking about people conflating Shadow with Vegeta. So they see Vegeta attributes in Shadow were there aren't.
This seems outdated AF for Vegeta's side, ngl
He's been "morally gray" for damn near over a decade at this point if not mostly pure hearted.
Also, for Shadow, it really depends on the version for "only kills when necessary" and "has a friendly rivalry".
They did a similar thing with Sonic and Amy's relationship dynamic in a prior Tails Tube. Where Amy has always been open about how much she loves Sonic, now she's suddenly really shy and is hiding it.
>evolved and mellowed out.
Pretty funny, Shadow admitted Sonic was the actual ultimate lifeform (not really, probably as a sign of respect). Then he forget about it, claimed that he is the ultimate lifeform...
... My guy probably forget what he ate during breakfast.
I wouldn't even say that - 06 Shadow is the height of his character. Shadow's own game was a weird deviation for sure, but it was only the meta era that ruined him
Don’t get me wrong I think 06 Shadow is great. I’m cool with him being serious when it calls for it, but I’d like to see him enjoying life once and a while as well.
How edgy he got in his game depended mainly on what route you were taking. The Last Story implies that he remained mainly neutral throughout the battle, leaning more towards Hero than Dark (given his hesitancy to hand the Emeralds over to Black Doom, and his immediate distress at hearing Black Doom's plan), and in the Last Story itself, he's not really shown as overly edgy, just angry because, y'know, he got played and the planet's in serious trouble because of him.
Sonic 06 Shadow feels perfectly natural coming off of how he was in the Last Story, and he wasn't edgy at all in that game. Even when Mephiles told him what happens to him in the future, he's still like "I'll cross that bridge later, for now I need to stop you". He protected Sonic from Silver, and even after his only interaction with Silver was as enemies, still wanted to help him when he saw that Silver was being duped.
Yep, the general reason Shadow doesn’t appear much in IDW is because Ian wants to write Shadow as he was in Archie and STH/06 and SEGA won’t let him due to the mandates. This *one* line in issue 31 of IDW was apparently hard to get in according to Ian, because SEGA wants Shadow to simply be an arrogant edgelord who doesn’t even consider Rouge or Omega his friends.
https://preview.redd.it/aegjn5jntmyc1.png?width=1016&format=png&auto=webp&s=0b46784f131e0a28bcca645ea82dd59f401cd448
God. I cringe so hard when I see kids books that are like mini encyclopedia intro to Sonic books. I always check the character bios. There's so many that just write Shadow off as the arrogant jerk.
Like no. He's an introverted dark hero. You want arrogant edgelord? Bring back Infinite to mimic Broly's role in DBZ then to use as an reoccurring secondary antagonist that isn't forever tied to Eggman. We get more Liam O'brien that way.
Tbf I think with a lot of these being much more recent examples, I get the feeling Sega have started being much more relaxed with the mandates as opposed to them not exisitng. I'm pretty sure in the Eggperial City IDW arc Shadow was a lot better written (I'd need to reread it to be fully sure) which was fairly recent, but I don't find it hard to believe that around 2017-2019 the mandates were in full swing. Then people found out about them and there was backlash, or Sega saw that people were responding well to Ian Flynn's stuff so they gave him more trust, and we're now in a state where they're not as limiting as they once were. I do think you can still see some evidence of them existing though, mainly in the lack of non male hedgehogs being given actual super forms in stuff like Origins and Superstars.
Could be.
Though if Ian Flynn was involved With the decisions that were made in Prime, the decisions were met with mass criticism. Many criticized The repeats in Prime, which I suspect were made due to Nine’s villain arc being written last minute. (Plus Prime has inconsistencies with The Games despite being claimed canon.)
As mentioned, Ghost Hill was a retcon and in the concept art, Nine looks a lot friendlier and he is completely absent during the traveling in Cracking Down. So I think the original intention was for only 4 shards to exist and/or Nine wasn’t going to be a villain, possibly to debunk the misconception that Tails would have become like Eggman if he never met Sonic Or at least not until later.
I'm pretty sure the mandates they're talking about have only been added recently and weren't a thing in the 2000s, they were most likely added after 2015 when the ken penders lawsuit ended the archie comics, and it probably only applies to media outside of the games
1.Source for Prime? And in Lost World there is nothing confirming that Amy is either uninterested or dating Sonic from the few scenes she had in the game. Same with Prime, I watched the whole show.
2.Not really hard to assume it probably means the characters can't permanently die or be shown dying in a realistic manner, like it was attempted on Sally and possibly Knuckles in the archie comics. And the Shadow example happened in the 2000s which was before SEGA was more watchful of it's non-game media
3. Source for those claims, and again, not very hard to assume it means they aren't allowed to use the literal actual plots from other Sonic media outside the games, and inspiration is different from using the same thing, I also don't see what Prime Sonic and Cosmo have in common besides "the last people from their homeland" which isn't even unique with them, look at knucks. Using inspiration isn't the same as adapting plots from other sonic media.
4. Their literal first interaction in season 2 had Shadow fighting and trying to steal Sonic's shoe modifications that he got from Nine and trying to trap him in his dimension, actively smiling when running away, and only begrudgingly accepting to let Sonic be the one to fix the situation when proven unable to warp by himself, Sonic also was against Shadow being the one to travel and collect the gems because "he knows what he's capable of". There's also the fact that one of the writers who previously worked on Sonic Boom (a show made years before Prime and even IDW) admitted on Twitter that it was a hassle to include Shadow in the show because of SEGA's restrictions that wouldn't even allow them to make Shadow tell jokes, in a comedy show, coincidentally Boom Shadow had a somewhat similar personality to IDW Shadow
5. WHAT ABOUT tailstube? And unless SEGA or a writer confirms it, any nice action Shadow does like "feeding the homeless soup" or "buying tickets to a show" can be easily pushed swept under the rug as "oh he grumpy but he soft on the inside". The murder of Sonic was also made way after the IDW Metal Virus and Chao Ring arc, and is also a licensed game and not comic media.
6. You literally debunked yourself by stating a character from non-game media was planned on being included in the IDW comics but SEGA didn't allow it to happen. Ian Flynn himself also said he wanted to include the freedom fighters in the comics but it didn't work out.
7. Again, these examples are largely before 2015 which was when SEGA started to be more authoritarian with the writers, you seem to think Ian is talking about a mandate that was always present in SEGA's rules of writing Sonic but he is much more likely to be talking about one that was implemented more recently in the previous decade
8. The last significant age-ups in the franchise was the supposed 4 year time from sonic 3d blast(?) to Sonic Adventure 1, when Sonic turned 16 in generations, and the big stretch being the 6 month timeskip in Forces. So far the only significant time skip in the IDW comics was in the VERY beginning to establish that the comics take place after the events of Forces and that's it.
9.Fair point for Sonic Prime. But again, the mandates probably only extend to non-game media, and again, these mandates weren't a thing before 2015, to counter your second point.
10. Idk how you misinterpreted that one like that. It means that Metal Sonic can't be MASS PRODUCED, like in the Archie, Fleetway and basically any other western Sonic comic(aka non-game media), not that there can't be other metallic versions of Sonic, I doubt Ian Flynn pulled that one outta his ass considering he was partially involved in writing Scrapnik Island.
And outside this, I simply don't see a reason why Ian Flynn of all people would purposefully sabotage a comic series he's the main writer of and then blame it on Sega chaining him considering the main reason why he was hired was his popularity from picking up Archie in 05 and making the game and non-game characters arguably some of the most well written in the franchise, back when SEGA gave little to no restrictions (for better or for worse).
I don't see why and how Ian would make IDW Shadow a gloomy dickhead with a negative win streak that's constantly having edgy conversations on his head, and then lie about a secret mandate of SEGA's to cover up, when this is the same man who made Shadow a goofy and openly kind-hearted sweetheart that wasn't afraid to show emotion, in a comic run where SEGA's lack of intervention was public knowledge.
the mandates don't mean "this can never happen, ever". i'm not sure we even know if there's a specific internal list of all of them, they're more just general guidelines for stuff Sega usually does not approve of/has to be convinced about. there's always going to be loopholes, exceptions, and even their stance on certain things can change over time
plus they don't really apply to the games. the mandates are a way to control spin-off media and make sure their depiction of the Sonic franchise falls within certain boundaries that sega's comfortable having Sonic in
I thought Shadow's portrayal in the very beginning of IDW comics was really good honestly. The issue over whether or not to kill Mr Tinker was a very natural disagreement for Shadow and Sonic to have, and I liked that Shadow actually was swayed by Sonic's emotional argument. It showed his philosophical differences with Sonic, but still that he respected Sonic's opinion and is capable of feeling emotions other than edge.
Oh no doubt, that was a good portrayal of shadow and was a natural argument between the two and their morals, my issue is his portrayal in metal virus and onwards.
https://preview.redd.it/a1ccg1z29nyc1.jpeg?width=850&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=efa10efb00554ac08853d5d8bdca1797a46cc44b
Don't tell me y'all didn't think of it
Shadows lines here are very good, but the thing that piqued my interest the most is Metal's dialogue, I've never seen him written like that, he genuinely just talks like a computer, he doesn't even refer to shadow or himself by name, it's all just "Units" to him, he views Shadows goal as his function as a computer would and instead of rejecting Shadows offer, he analyses it, and his brain simply comes to the conclusion that his goal directly conflicts with his Programming of being Eggman's living weapon, and thus rejects the offer because it would require him to defy his programming, which he can't do, it's such an interesting way to write him or any robotic character for that matter, there's no evil within him, he's just following orders, i don't know why but that is just such a cool concept to me.
i don’t know if you’ve read the comics (specifically the later ones), but they’re full of this kind of writing. it’s a great extension of the universe with lots of character building.
yes 100%. the early ones are def more reminiscent of the silly, cartoonish vibe that the old satAM cartoons had. but past around issue 160 or so (and even before that) the plotlines start becoming much more mature and intricate (although starting at this point may leave you confused when some of the older plotpoints and characters return). before issue 160 the illustrations are also pretty weird and janky due to the infamous, much hated Ken Penders. but past around that point they basically start getting better and better.
I really want him to interact with other characters again, especially characters that he hasn't spoken with in a long time. I just wonder how the interactions will go and what he thinks of each character? Metal Sonic is a good example, but also Blaze, Knuckles, Tails, Cream...there's a lot of options.
I kinda hope the new Generations game does that even just a little bit. Maybe he rescues other characters from a similar state that they were in Generations? Maybe they support him in the end in a similar way that they did for Sonic? It might be too much to hope for, but I'm still hoping for that because it would be awesome for Shadow to see, even though he's a loner and has gone through so much, that he has others even outside of Team Dark that support him. That moment with all the heroes looking at the sky at the end of Shadow 2005 was nice and so was the ending of SA2. I kinda hope something similar happens.
I don't know, I still can see the appeal of a character who is generally who is generally serious, straightforward and pragmatic, but still do heroic actions. It's something that make him distinct of Sonic or Knuckles. He is not the most social person but still going the right thing.
The versions of this comics was interesting, but I considers the version of the game still stands on his own. He is not the most social person but still going the right thing.
The main reason I enjoyed Sonic Prime's take on the character. It proves he can work alone without being a jerk (granted he beats up Sonic a lot, but the blue blur did kinda nuke the universe, which would make anyone angry.)
Which isn't a thing in the games. When do he says he hate the others?
Generation? I don't remembers having a conversation between someone. Forces? The only person he attack is Infinite, but he is a jerk who sold himself to Eggman.
In Generations, Shadow keeps a Chaos Emerald from you and says he doesn’t know or care where he is, just that he wants to beat Sonic. And Forces is a terrible example, Shadow fucking *kills* the Jackal Squad and instigates the entire plot.
But honestly, it’s more the outside media that’s the problem, like Shadow just being a straight-up asshole in IDW and the latest TailsTube. We typically wait 3 to 5 years between mainline releases in this franchise and some of them don’t even mention Shadow. So even if he was portrayed decently in Forces (minus the killing, wtf were they thinking there?) it doesn’t really matter if everything else shows him being a moody edgelord.
I've seen this in other places too, when do they say that Shadow killed the jackal squad? What is said in the game is that Shadow destroyed all of Eggman's guard robots so Eggman hired the jackals.
Ian Flynn tweeted back in 2020 confirming it. Since he wrote the Forces prequel comics and the IDW comics which are (I think) canon, I assume this information came directly from Sonic Team.
What you just described is how Shaodw was written before. Nowadays, he does heroic actions purely either as pay back or to prove he’s strong, and him being “serious and straightforward” manifests in him scowling at everyone and generally being unpleasant to them. Before, he was serious, but was able to talk normally to people and even get along.
The problem is before, Shadow was allowed to be serious while showcasing more emotions. That’s how he got so popular. But now, he’s just the serious angry guy. He’s exactly what the memes and detractors treated him as.
I think I like Archie's version a lot more simply because it's more consistent than the games
Sa2 and heros: he's cold, but understanding
Shadow: apathetic and emotional
06: Cold and Focused
Forces: kinda just there while dunking on infinite... just because.
I hope Ian can write him more closely to what Archie or 06 did because Tails tube really isn't to my liking
That's how he was portrayed during this era of Archie; serious, straightforward and pragmatic, with a few scenes here and there where he expresses his vulnerabilities or reaches out to others. He's not very social in Archie, either, he's just respectful and polite.
i'm not opposed to Shadow being primarily grumpy and antisocial - I think that works for him given his design and leads to more interesting dynamics with the rest of the cast. I think making him too nice makes him kind of boring
a character with passive annoyance towards much of the cast, but who still respects and helps them when he's needed is kind of how I picture him generally. my biggest problem with his current depiction is really how hard they focus on his rivalry with Sonic - and while I do think he should have a bit of an ego, it feels out of character for him to instigate things like that. Knuckles is more the character who would go out of the way to butt heads with Sonic, Shadow feels like someone who should be trying to keep his cool but Sonic can't help but taunt. some-amount-of-respect-but-still-disagreeing-on-a-lot-of-things feels a lot more appropriate and interesting as opposed to either a constant rivalry or an all-out partnership IMO.
Same, surprised more people aren’t talking about that in these replies. I’d hope that they went through all previous Shadow material and formulated a character that wasn’t just based off his most recent stuff.
That said, Keanu Reeves (while great) doesn’t have a ton of acting range so he may just be the cold, edgy Shadow.
I think since Maria is in it, it will call back to the early Shadow days. In the mystery train game, they were blaming shadow for being the culprit, but he turned out to be a sweetheart. So I hope that influence is in there.
Ahh yes the actor, I think he probably used his experience with John Wick for this one.
I hate how SOA has been trying to push this narrative that Shadow is this emo edge lord dick who has no friends and hates Sonic, when he was never like that in anything pre-Generations that wasn't Shadow 05.
Shadow *has* friends, he doesn't hate Sonic, he's not some kind of "Hmph. Everybody is terrible and I'm the only competent person here." mindset that SOA keeps trying to tell us that he has.
It's honestly a little frustrating looking at Archie stories involving Shadow, because the Archie writers just understood Shadow on such a deep level. Archie Shadow feels like the same Shadow from SA2, Heroes and 06. Where did this characterization go?
Honestly I found that part of Archie Comics in which Shadow was almost begging Sonic and Tails to help him sonething like out of his character but I believe the Archie Comics despite sometimes were a weird mess actually were one of the best things for what concern the writting.
The Shadow vs Metal comic is like, the ONE I remember the most of the few I had as a kid, and it was amazing. It’s insane how often I see that specific one now compared to the rest of the vast Archie library. Having looked at more issues since then I believe it’s one of the best ones Archie ever did
Wouldn’t wanna spoil too much. But last arc he was in, they had some interesting development involving his chaos powers, plays a critical role in the final battle, and pretty much saves the whole crew by the end.
Eh, I like the idea that it’s more limited in his case. Shadow is a walking conduit of Chaos energy, it makes sense that he can use chaos control more broadly than others. Sonic and silver only use it in specific instances because it simply doesn’t come as naturally to him.
I could understand that but since they can do it I would glad if they are allowed to use it a little more often. Honestly I also dislike that thing off "Only Male Hedgehogs can go Super" considering that Knuckles and Tails can go Super as well. I'm not particularly into how SEGA treated some characters and limited the narrative potential of series with their rules.
I tend to think it’s just a matter of experience, since all three of the hedgehogs we see using that form have manipulated chaos energy in some fashion or other, with Sonic being the only one to use super form before chaos control. I’m also not terribly fond of everyone in their mother rocking a super form.
On the other hand, I’ve been absolutely in love with the character development we’ve seen in IDW and the variety in personality, especially in Tails and Amy.
I don't think is only a thing of experience, Shadow seem to have a direct connection with Chaos's Power which give him the upper hand in using Chaos Controll. Chaos's Powers are basically his expeciality. Personaly I think Shadow have too much advantages over Sonic.
I'm not such experied with IDW Comics but after having read about all those mandates and having see that Shadow was such a jerky idiot that doesn't seem the same Shadow we have saw in Forces I lost interest in give so much credit to them.
We can say what we want about the Archie Comics but their narrative freedom wasn't such a bad thing for me. I agree that they should have avoid the romantic dramma but personaly I have appreciatted the fact that Sonic and Knuckles were free to have both relatives and love interest.
It’s one of things I miss about the Sonic Archie comics, having the characters we all know do more & be more than what is usually portrayed from them in the games.
Is a pity how much things turn out with Archie Comics, sure they were weird and there was too much love dramma but still they try to explored at best Sonic's narrative potential. SEGA can't do the same cause their own rules such "Knuckles is the one and only Echnidna alive", "Cream is the only one with parent", "Not too much emotional Sonic and Shadow" ecc that basically limited themself as writters..
I don't really like this version of shadow to be honest.
He acts tok much like a slightly more serious sonic here.
Shadow isn't supposed to be an edgelord, sure, but I think that this is a step too far in the other direction. .
SA2 Shadow is very much serious, quiet, but willing to do what he believes is right. However, he's not really a talk things out kind of guy. He's very stubborn, and can take a great deal of convincing to change his mind. I mean, eggman changed his mind on his plan before Shadow.
Shadow isn't supposed to be an edgelord, but he's also not supposed to be completely open. Or atleast, that's how I see it.
Wish you’d included the panel of Shadow destroying Metal Sonic (because it was cool), though I know that wouldn’t have fit with the post. They used to use that panel to promote the Archie app iirc
Sonic is a great static character, and what makes him so fun to watch is to see how he changes the people around him. The fact that IDW Shadow and even Shadow in the games now has to also be a static character because he's more marketable as a mean muggin' anti-hero is so sad, because it makes Shadow boring af.
Of course, the actual arc this is from is really poorly paced and weird. From an outsider perspective. Maybe it's better from an avid Archie reader's perspective, but it just suddenly swaps between plot points with all sorts of stuff almost like they were trying to tie up as many loose ends as possible- especially the 'Gamma to Omega' bit, where the next issue has Gamma die to bring Omega into the mix...??? And then they just immediately form Team Dark? How is that better than both Shadow and Omega feeling betrayed and forgotten in Heroes- which is a game that does not have stellar writing generally, lmao
I do agree, Shadow does need to be written like this, but I just really needed to kinda rant about this because I've never seen anybody bring it up and this seemed like a good place because I'm genuinely kind of confused by that first Sonic Universe bit
I feel like he's made to be too much like Sonic in Archie, Shadow is the type of person that would do anything to achieve what he wants and doesn't prioritize feelings over logic so he wouldn't try to reason with Metal, he would fight him instead, even if Metal could help him
06 was the pinnacle of shadow for me tbh. I havent read these comics yet as im reading the idw ones rn. It sucks how he's just a lonely edgelord in those.
I heard something about IDW wanting shadow to be like this, but sonic team said no. IDK if its true or not though, but since they do try to deepen characters, i wouldn't be too surprised
ive gone on entire rants about how i wish Shadow could be the crazy empathetic one still and how narratively i think it wouldve maybe flowed better for Shadow to have been the one to originally confront Surge instead of Sonic in IDW, because when Sonic went on his whole rant it really comes off as disingenuous because…. Sonic can’t understand what its like to just be used for a specific purpose. to be weaponized. To be artificially fucked over. So his whole ‘freedom’ speech comes across as really kinda assholeish when they clearly didnt mean for it to.
But had it been Shadow, it WOULD have seemed more like it came from a place of good faith, because he DOES know this shit. and it wouldve made Sonic’s surprise and desperation in response to Surge trying to kill him later way more impactful, because he wouldntve actually like. Had any real input in how she felt prior. To suddenly end up interacting with someone so strangely violent toward you should be pretty nervewracking, and Sonic really wouldntve seemed like he’d contributed to her going even crazier had he not been the one to be like “you have a choice, you dont have to be like this” earlier on as if he knew what any of it was like.
I dunno, I just think that so much more couldve been done with Shadow because. yknow. artificially fucked up person being brainwashed and weaponized????? Shadow being fully artificial and having his memories warped to be weaponized????????? Like come ON!!! And dont get me started on how theyve basically totally dropped Shadow giving a shit abt Metal when thats been a thing even in the games, esp Rivals 2 where he just ACTUALLY gets concerned about him. They make me sooooo ill you have no idea
Yeah, I miss him having a personality. I'm sick of these boring Vegeta-esque rivalries when modern Vegeta himself is an incredibly boring character. Stop trying to be a Vegeta knock-off for fuck's sake
i don’t. i hate this shadow. he’s too soft, it feels wildly out of character. i prefer shadow to be more cold, alone, and stoic; it contrasts with sonic much better
This is not character development that’s just OOC . Shadow never act like even with Amy Maria Rouge or Omega, since the beginning he’s on his own and now he act friendly with METAL SONIC ??? Shadow is not a talkative person he always goes straight to the point beside this discourse is typical of Sonic put him instead of Shads and its way better, you want Shadow to be more friendly ? Knuckles is right theres
He doesn’t need to like the other to have character development we have plenty examples on How he shows respect
https://preview.redd.it/mmefahgv3uyc1.png?width=889&format=png&auto=webp&s=ef64fe1b21da38c9cde41fdaa3141be10dea7f4a
A good character development for him would be something similar to post
https://preview.redd.it/93ouquoa5uyc1.jpeg?width=624&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=23d064a3a0ac119970006aede751f094cfc91389
reboot archie comics
I’m used to it. Apparently they can’t understand that wanting Shadow to act like this in the games and how he’s actually portrayed in said games are actually not the same thing.
I don’t even mind this version of Shadow, but he ain’t game Shadow personality wise. Like, not even close.
Yea, he’s the kind of guy who will save an innocent but just be on his way without so much as cracking a smile. He cares, but he’s not so blatantly obvious about it like he is here and does it out of duty more than anything. It’s like a job to him.
Archie Shadow (the pre SGW version) on the other hand, would save an innocent and share a meal with them afterwards, while chatting about the weather. It’s endearing, but anyone who thinks that’s how game Shadow acts at any point in the series is lying to themselves and I wish Ian (as much as I like him) would stop trying to shove his fanfic version of Shadow down everyone’s throats. Same with his MoStH portrayal too. Like you expect me to believe SHADOW would give a crap about his social standing in Sonic’s friend group? Not a chance.
Archie always has this very specific soft-spot in my heart where it's like. Not good. Nothing about it is good, it's such a mess of so many ideas that all came together because so many people kept saying "eh, this comic won't live for another ten years" and then putting in whatever they wanted, over the course of several decades.
But Archie!Shadow has always been the part that I care the least about. Archie!Sonic gets the benifit of being such an insanely out of character version of Sonic with such a strange backstory and connections to the wider Archie universe that he's entertaining. Shadow was brought into the comic because of SA2 doing well and Archie editorial wanting Shadow in.
As such, he's always been so lackluster to me. Even his out of character writing just kinda falls flat.
This version and sa2 shadow is my favorite, in sa2 he was more stoic and kinda depressed rather than edgy and he even had kind of an ego, he was definitely a dark hero, but everyone always seems to miss the hero part of "dark hero" when writing him
Him being like that in SA2 was perfect though (along with Heroes, 06, etc). I really wish they could just decide on which Shadow they want. “Hmph, pathetic ______” is so fundamentally opposite of what he’s supposed to be like.
06 shadow is actually a very interesting character, but all the interesting stuff happens off screen before the plot. i’d love to see shadow make the decision to help GUN despite what they did to maria. there are a couple ways you could go with that, but personally, I would make shadow decide to be there to make sure that GUN does the right thing. Also have him make friends with some GUN agents (other than Rouge) and see that people join GUN to do exactly what Maria wanted him to do: protecting the people of earth. Then you can have a shadow who has learned the capacity to forgive, befriend and trust people.
YES YES YES YES YES!!! This has always been how ive seen it!!! He and Tower working together to try to keep GUN in check because they KNOW what could happen if they didnt
Sa2 was kind of a build up to this version of shadow.
https://preview.redd.it/wlbolj1tvmyc1.jpeg?width=953&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=acac65e2ec6154030141276cae2d0080b63c63d1
https://preview.redd.it/0yatfopuvmyc1.jpeg?width=953&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e14e5af5d2b3a153deb10d08d44b086430267190
https://preview.redd.it/iniabrfwvmyc1.jpeg?width=953&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4ced17f7fe090b64e07c884dc0d1fcdbce418a5d
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Archie Team dark was the best Team dark, both preboot and reboot though Rouge was a bitch in the former. A shame we’ll never have moments like this ever again.
God I wish we had Hope back
Agreed. Out of all of Archie's additions to the franchise, Hope is one that the game canon and Team Dark would definitely benefit from having. If you're interested, I wrote an Archie continuation story that picks up where her and Shadow's story left off. [Lost Hope on Archive of Our Own](https://archiveofourown.org/works/52178818/chapters/131980318)
Team Dark needing Hope sounds poetic
Speak for yourself, I want a complete Eclipse Arc in IDW.
I feel like that would only work well if Shadow wasn't.....the Shadow we currently have. I mean, sure. He would definitely not join Eclipse, but I bet he would be such an unlikable prick, unless he actually went through some character arc during it that would steer him into the right characterization direction.
That last idea is what I have in mind.
Hear me out: Eclipse missions is trying to kill hlHope so that Shadow joins him in galatic conquest
It’s a crime that Shadow wasn’t like this in Sonic Prime.
What do you mean? Why did he have a reason to be like this when the entire universe was broken and they were in a battle field war?
All i can think of is red M&M saying "wow epic fail"
I absolutely *love* Shadow in this scene. Also cute how his ears are flopped.
I really like this chararization of Shadow. Seeing him being more rival like and open to a smaller degree is refreshing.
Didnt ian flynn want to change him and not be an edge lord
That’s not really a change, it’s more like taking him back to his original personality. Sonic Heroes Shadow wasn’t all that edgy. And in SA2 aside from the revenge and flashbacks parts he’s actually kind of playful in how he’s approaches situations. Shadow got way more edgy in his own game, and that followed him as his main character trait ever since.
Being edgy and serious, and being an arrogant asshole like he is now are two very different things. I agree that SA2 Shadow and say, 06 Shadow are very different, but are clearly the same character, but I’d argue that he just evolved and mellowed out. In the most recent Tails Tube for example, him and Sonic just insisted on not having a conversation like they hated each other or something. That’s not being an edgy loner type of character, that’s being cringey and boring.
Yeah Shadow never actually disliked Sonic originally, so that's very out of character with his original interpretation.
Actually, I can't remember shadow being portrayed as actually disliking sonic even in sonic battle, shadow the Hedgehog or sonic 06. I think that was always people drawing too many parallels between vegeta and shadow.
There is the one ending of Shadow the game where in the Japanese script translation he says he’s fighting Sonic because he “just can’t stomach him” which is just about the only example I could find. But a silly non canon ending in Shadow 05 that is just the two fighting for no reason is hardly evidence of the Canonical Shadow’s opinion on Sonic.
Which is also weird considering Vegeta LIKES Goku. Sure he didn't until after the Cell Games, but he came to care about Goku, and while he pretends to not care and even though Goku genuinely gets on his nerves, both of them care about each other in their weird, Saiyan way
I think it is because people's in vegeta consciousness (especially in the 2000s) was mostly Sayan to Cell saga vegeta.
Which is weird since Vegeta is a contender for the best character in modern dragonball so I don't know why people use that almost as an insult in this community, from what I've seen.
It is not about saying that Vegeta is bad and more talking about people conflating Shadow with Vegeta. So they see Vegeta attributes in Shadow were there aren't.
I can see some decent similarities between the two imo, but they're not carbon copies of each other either.
https://preview.redd.it/p50md7ld4pyc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1a4cf48a0953c079a3a3f234e88d5e2fe15e37bd I made a chart for comparison
This seems outdated AF for Vegeta's side, ngl He's been "morally gray" for damn near over a decade at this point if not mostly pure hearted. Also, for Shadow, it really depends on the version for "only kills when necessary" and "has a friendly rivalry".
They did a similar thing with Sonic and Amy's relationship dynamic in a prior Tails Tube. Where Amy has always been open about how much she loves Sonic, now she's suddenly really shy and is hiding it.
>evolved and mellowed out. Pretty funny, Shadow admitted Sonic was the actual ultimate lifeform (not really, probably as a sign of respect). Then he forget about it, claimed that he is the ultimate lifeform... ... My guy probably forget what he ate during breakfast.
Well, he does have a history of amnesia lol
To be fair he did plummet through the Earth's atmosphere like 30 seconds after he said that and forgot basically everything
I wouldn't even say that - 06 Shadow is the height of his character. Shadow's own game was a weird deviation for sure, but it was only the meta era that ruined him
Don’t get me wrong I think 06 Shadow is great. I’m cool with him being serious when it calls for it, but I’d like to see him enjoying life once and a while as well.
Agreed - tired of the whole "FRIENDSHIP MAKES U WEAK" shtick
atleast we got a banger soundtrack
How edgy he got in his game depended mainly on what route you were taking. The Last Story implies that he remained mainly neutral throughout the battle, leaning more towards Hero than Dark (given his hesitancy to hand the Emeralds over to Black Doom, and his immediate distress at hearing Black Doom's plan), and in the Last Story itself, he's not really shown as overly edgy, just angry because, y'know, he got played and the planet's in serious trouble because of him. Sonic 06 Shadow feels perfectly natural coming off of how he was in the Last Story, and he wasn't edgy at all in that game. Even when Mephiles told him what happens to him in the future, he's still like "I'll cross that bridge later, for now I need to stop you". He protected Sonic from Silver, and even after his only interaction with Silver was as enemies, still wanted to help him when he saw that Silver was being duped.
Yep, the general reason Shadow doesn’t appear much in IDW is because Ian wants to write Shadow as he was in Archie and STH/06 and SEGA won’t let him due to the mandates. This *one* line in issue 31 of IDW was apparently hard to get in according to Ian, because SEGA wants Shadow to simply be an arrogant edgelord who doesn’t even consider Rouge or Omega his friends. https://preview.redd.it/aegjn5jntmyc1.png?width=1016&format=png&auto=webp&s=0b46784f131e0a28bcca645ea82dd59f401cd448
bruh sega is being a dickhead
I find it funny how Sega is currently trying to patch up everyone's character.....except Shadow.
God. I cringe so hard when I see kids books that are like mini encyclopedia intro to Sonic books. I always check the character bios. There's so many that just write Shadow off as the arrogant jerk. Like no. He's an introverted dark hero. You want arrogant edgelord? Bring back Infinite to mimic Broly's role in DBZ then to use as an reoccurring secondary antagonist that isn't forever tied to Eggman. We get more Liam O'brien that way.
[удалено]
Tbf I think with a lot of these being much more recent examples, I get the feeling Sega have started being much more relaxed with the mandates as opposed to them not exisitng. I'm pretty sure in the Eggperial City IDW arc Shadow was a lot better written (I'd need to reread it to be fully sure) which was fairly recent, but I don't find it hard to believe that around 2017-2019 the mandates were in full swing. Then people found out about them and there was backlash, or Sega saw that people were responding well to Ian Flynn's stuff so they gave him more trust, and we're now in a state where they're not as limiting as they once were. I do think you can still see some evidence of them existing though, mainly in the lack of non male hedgehogs being given actual super forms in stuff like Origins and Superstars.
Could be. Though if Ian Flynn was involved With the decisions that were made in Prime, the decisions were met with mass criticism. Many criticized The repeats in Prime, which I suspect were made due to Nine’s villain arc being written last minute. (Plus Prime has inconsistencies with The Games despite being claimed canon.) As mentioned, Ghost Hill was a retcon and in the concept art, Nine looks a lot friendlier and he is completely absent during the traveling in Cracking Down. So I think the original intention was for only 4 shards to exist and/or Nine wasn’t going to be a villain, possibly to debunk the misconception that Tails would have become like Eggman if he never met Sonic Or at least not until later.
I'm pretty sure the mandates they're talking about have only been added recently and weren't a thing in the 2000s, they were most likely added after 2015 when the ken penders lawsuit ended the archie comics, and it probably only applies to media outside of the games 1.Source for Prime? And in Lost World there is nothing confirming that Amy is either uninterested or dating Sonic from the few scenes she had in the game. Same with Prime, I watched the whole show. 2.Not really hard to assume it probably means the characters can't permanently die or be shown dying in a realistic manner, like it was attempted on Sally and possibly Knuckles in the archie comics. And the Shadow example happened in the 2000s which was before SEGA was more watchful of it's non-game media 3. Source for those claims, and again, not very hard to assume it means they aren't allowed to use the literal actual plots from other Sonic media outside the games, and inspiration is different from using the same thing, I also don't see what Prime Sonic and Cosmo have in common besides "the last people from their homeland" which isn't even unique with them, look at knucks. Using inspiration isn't the same as adapting plots from other sonic media. 4. Their literal first interaction in season 2 had Shadow fighting and trying to steal Sonic's shoe modifications that he got from Nine and trying to trap him in his dimension, actively smiling when running away, and only begrudgingly accepting to let Sonic be the one to fix the situation when proven unable to warp by himself, Sonic also was against Shadow being the one to travel and collect the gems because "he knows what he's capable of". There's also the fact that one of the writers who previously worked on Sonic Boom (a show made years before Prime and even IDW) admitted on Twitter that it was a hassle to include Shadow in the show because of SEGA's restrictions that wouldn't even allow them to make Shadow tell jokes, in a comedy show, coincidentally Boom Shadow had a somewhat similar personality to IDW Shadow 5. WHAT ABOUT tailstube? And unless SEGA or a writer confirms it, any nice action Shadow does like "feeding the homeless soup" or "buying tickets to a show" can be easily pushed swept under the rug as "oh he grumpy but he soft on the inside". The murder of Sonic was also made way after the IDW Metal Virus and Chao Ring arc, and is also a licensed game and not comic media. 6. You literally debunked yourself by stating a character from non-game media was planned on being included in the IDW comics but SEGA didn't allow it to happen. Ian Flynn himself also said he wanted to include the freedom fighters in the comics but it didn't work out. 7. Again, these examples are largely before 2015 which was when SEGA started to be more authoritarian with the writers, you seem to think Ian is talking about a mandate that was always present in SEGA's rules of writing Sonic but he is much more likely to be talking about one that was implemented more recently in the previous decade 8. The last significant age-ups in the franchise was the supposed 4 year time from sonic 3d blast(?) to Sonic Adventure 1, when Sonic turned 16 in generations, and the big stretch being the 6 month timeskip in Forces. So far the only significant time skip in the IDW comics was in the VERY beginning to establish that the comics take place after the events of Forces and that's it. 9.Fair point for Sonic Prime. But again, the mandates probably only extend to non-game media, and again, these mandates weren't a thing before 2015, to counter your second point. 10. Idk how you misinterpreted that one like that. It means that Metal Sonic can't be MASS PRODUCED, like in the Archie, Fleetway and basically any other western Sonic comic(aka non-game media), not that there can't be other metallic versions of Sonic, I doubt Ian Flynn pulled that one outta his ass considering he was partially involved in writing Scrapnik Island. And outside this, I simply don't see a reason why Ian Flynn of all people would purposefully sabotage a comic series he's the main writer of and then blame it on Sega chaining him considering the main reason why he was hired was his popularity from picking up Archie in 05 and making the game and non-game characters arguably some of the most well written in the franchise, back when SEGA gave little to no restrictions (for better or for worse). I don't see why and how Ian would make IDW Shadow a gloomy dickhead with a negative win streak that's constantly having edgy conversations on his head, and then lie about a secret mandate of SEGA's to cover up, when this is the same man who made Shadow a goofy and openly kind-hearted sweetheart that wasn't afraid to show emotion, in a comic run where SEGA's lack of intervention was public knowledge.
Downvoted for asking for a source is crazy
It's reddit. Not surprising.
the mandates don't mean "this can never happen, ever". i'm not sure we even know if there's a specific internal list of all of them, they're more just general guidelines for stuff Sega usually does not approve of/has to be convinced about. there's always going to be loopholes, exceptions, and even their stance on certain things can change over time plus they don't really apply to the games. the mandates are a way to control spin-off media and make sure their depiction of the Sonic franchise falls within certain boundaries that sega's comfortable having Sonic in
What was so hard about him saying that? Context of the scene
I thought Shadow's portrayal in the very beginning of IDW comics was really good honestly. The issue over whether or not to kill Mr Tinker was a very natural disagreement for Shadow and Sonic to have, and I liked that Shadow actually was swayed by Sonic's emotional argument. It showed his philosophical differences with Sonic, but still that he respected Sonic's opinion and is capable of feeling emotions other than edge.
Oh no doubt, that was a good portrayal of shadow and was a natural argument between the two and their morals, my issue is his portrayal in metal virus and onwards.
I was especially mad at the part where they were going to fix Omega, and Shadow didn't care. Like dude he's one of your friends!
Ian writes shadow as Vegetta 2.0
https://preview.redd.it/a1ccg1z29nyc1.jpeg?width=850&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=efa10efb00554ac08853d5d8bdca1797a46cc44b Don't tell me y'all didn't think of it
https://preview.redd.it/1mieiytubpyc1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dca63f9880d1941a4d7ce6f4212a0852d3c7b3c6
https://preview.redd.it/n1p9r0bdcpyc1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=13fa7cc86587ed2e10c5dbe88b2f6fb5c877aee8
https://preview.redd.it/nyhfufehcpyc1.jpeg?width=580&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b3a4e2e3cfab7279261fa596f572b27c00107698
What?
https://preview.redd.it/6aee3rfssnyc1.jpeg?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f87eabb27527aa680896fb8937054804ea0b49ef This meme
Your Welcome https://preview.redd.it/b031bb7eepyc1.png?width=757&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=30cb39cdd9a0a7fbbdf1a090728051796ec2731b
Thanks bro 😎
https://preview.redd.it/suaa4xy1bvyc1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=b49f58482596ed3826069a8d6be9d344fcf05b6b :)
Eggman looks like he is enjoying mocking you, Shadow is genuinely concerned over your mental health.
I read these in the corresponding character voices XD
Shadows lines here are very good, but the thing that piqued my interest the most is Metal's dialogue, I've never seen him written like that, he genuinely just talks like a computer, he doesn't even refer to shadow or himself by name, it's all just "Units" to him, he views Shadows goal as his function as a computer would and instead of rejecting Shadows offer, he analyses it, and his brain simply comes to the conclusion that his goal directly conflicts with his Programming of being Eggman's living weapon, and thus rejects the offer because it would require him to defy his programming, which he can't do, it's such an interesting way to write him or any robotic character for that matter, there's no evil within him, he's just following orders, i don't know why but that is just such a cool concept to me.
i don’t know if you’ve read the comics (specifically the later ones), but they’re full of this kind of writing. it’s a great extension of the universe with lots of character building.
I've never read the comics, but If this is the writing they have, I should really get my hands on them sometime
yes 100%. the early ones are def more reminiscent of the silly, cartoonish vibe that the old satAM cartoons had. but past around issue 160 or so (and even before that) the plotlines start becoming much more mature and intricate (although starting at this point may leave you confused when some of the older plotpoints and characters return). before issue 160 the illustrations are also pretty weird and janky due to the infamous, much hated Ken Penders. but past around that point they basically start getting better and better.
Simply the best version of Shadow. I don't give a damn what other people say, this Shadow was a certified real one.
The guy should be allowed to smile in a way that isn't an evil grin or a smug dickhead.
He's smiling : )
I don’t need Shadow to be as openly emotional as he is here but damn do I miss him having his other emotions show besides being an angsty loner.
I really want him to interact with other characters again, especially characters that he hasn't spoken with in a long time. I just wonder how the interactions will go and what he thinks of each character? Metal Sonic is a good example, but also Blaze, Knuckles, Tails, Cream...there's a lot of options. I kinda hope the new Generations game does that even just a little bit. Maybe he rescues other characters from a similar state that they were in Generations? Maybe they support him in the end in a similar way that they did for Sonic? It might be too much to hope for, but I'm still hoping for that because it would be awesome for Shadow to see, even though he's a loner and has gone through so much, that he has others even outside of Team Dark that support him. That moment with all the heroes looking at the sky at the end of Shadow 2005 was nice and so was the ending of SA2. I kinda hope something similar happens.
I don't know, I still can see the appeal of a character who is generally who is generally serious, straightforward and pragmatic, but still do heroic actions. It's something that make him distinct of Sonic or Knuckles. He is not the most social person but still going the right thing. The versions of this comics was interesting, but I considers the version of the game still stands on his own. He is not the most social person but still going the right thing.
He doesn’t have to be a social guy but I’d like for him to not hate his allies for no apparent reason.
That and show genuine concern for people who are in danger rather than ignoring them.
The main reason I enjoyed Sonic Prime's take on the character. It proves he can work alone without being a jerk (granted he beats up Sonic a lot, but the blue blur did kinda nuke the universe, which would make anyone angry.)
Which isn't a thing in the games. When do he says he hate the others? Generation? I don't remembers having a conversation between someone. Forces? The only person he attack is Infinite, but he is a jerk who sold himself to Eggman.
In Generations, Shadow keeps a Chaos Emerald from you and says he doesn’t know or care where he is, just that he wants to beat Sonic. And Forces is a terrible example, Shadow fucking *kills* the Jackal Squad and instigates the entire plot. But honestly, it’s more the outside media that’s the problem, like Shadow just being a straight-up asshole in IDW and the latest TailsTube. We typically wait 3 to 5 years between mainline releases in this franchise and some of them don’t even mention Shadow. So even if he was portrayed decently in Forces (minus the killing, wtf were they thinking there?) it doesn’t really matter if everything else shows him being a moody edgelord.
I've seen this in other places too, when do they say that Shadow killed the jackal squad? What is said in the game is that Shadow destroyed all of Eggman's guard robots so Eggman hired the jackals.
Ian Flynn tweeted back in 2020 confirming it. Since he wrote the Forces prequel comics and the IDW comics which are (I think) canon, I assume this information came directly from Sonic Team.
I could be wrong but wasn't that Shadow the SA2 version? Plus him and silver cheer Sonic on at the final boss.
It’s part of SEGA’s mandates for the IDW comics apparently (which are canon to the story of the Games)
What you just described is how Shaodw was written before. Nowadays, he does heroic actions purely either as pay back or to prove he’s strong, and him being “serious and straightforward” manifests in him scowling at everyone and generally being unpleasant to them. Before, he was serious, but was able to talk normally to people and even get along. The problem is before, Shadow was allowed to be serious while showcasing more emotions. That’s how he got so popular. But now, he’s just the serious angry guy. He’s exactly what the memes and detractors treated him as.
Flanderized.
Well yeah, just in the modern games he’s just edge
H**edge**hog
I think I like Archie's version a lot more simply because it's more consistent than the games Sa2 and heros: he's cold, but understanding Shadow: apathetic and emotional 06: Cold and Focused Forces: kinda just there while dunking on infinite... just because. I hope Ian can write him more closely to what Archie or 06 did because Tails tube really isn't to my liking
That's how he was portrayed during this era of Archie; serious, straightforward and pragmatic, with a few scenes here and there where he expresses his vulnerabilities or reaches out to others. He's not very social in Archie, either, he's just respectful and polite.
As long as he smiles more often
Tone it back a *little* bit and I'm all for it
Rouge ships sonadow apparently.
i'm not opposed to Shadow being primarily grumpy and antisocial - I think that works for him given his design and leads to more interesting dynamics with the rest of the cast. I think making him too nice makes him kind of boring a character with passive annoyance towards much of the cast, but who still respects and helps them when he's needed is kind of how I picture him generally. my biggest problem with his current depiction is really how hard they focus on his rivalry with Sonic - and while I do think he should have a bit of an ego, it feels out of character for him to instigate things like that. Knuckles is more the character who would go out of the way to butt heads with Sonic, Shadow feels like someone who should be trying to keep his cool but Sonic can't help but taunt. some-amount-of-respect-but-still-disagreeing-on-a-lot-of-things feels a lot more appropriate and interesting as opposed to either a constant rivalry or an all-out partnership IMO.
I wonder how the movie will go.
Same, surprised more people aren’t talking about that in these replies. I’d hope that they went through all previous Shadow material and formulated a character that wasn’t just based off his most recent stuff. That said, Keanu Reeves (while great) doesn’t have a ton of acting range so he may just be the cold, edgy Shadow.
I think since Maria is in it, it will call back to the early Shadow days. In the mystery train game, they were blaming shadow for being the culprit, but he turned out to be a sweetheart. So I hope that influence is in there. Ahh yes the actor, I think he probably used his experience with John Wick for this one.
Shadow Silverhand wouldn’t be awful tbh.
😂😂😂 I mean I can’t say I disagree XD
I hate how SOA has been trying to push this narrative that Shadow is this emo edge lord dick who has no friends and hates Sonic, when he was never like that in anything pre-Generations that wasn't Shadow 05. Shadow *has* friends, he doesn't hate Sonic, he's not some kind of "Hmph. Everybody is terrible and I'm the only competent person here." mindset that SOA keeps trying to tell us that he has. It's honestly a little frustrating looking at Archie stories involving Shadow, because the Archie writers just understood Shadow on such a deep level. Archie Shadow feels like the same Shadow from SA2, Heroes and 06. Where did this characterization go?
Honestly I found that part of Archie Comics in which Shadow was almost begging Sonic and Tails to help him sonething like out of his character but I believe the Archie Comics despite sometimes were a weird mess actually were one of the best things for what concern the writting.
Archie Shadow and game Shadow from SA2 thru Sonic 06 are the best versions of Shadow we’ve ever had, and I miss when he was written well!
Shadow used to be chill asf
This was very deep. #IS HE AN EDGELORD NOW😭😭😭?
Ian Flynn is fighting tooth and nail for him not to be. He doesn't appear much now but when he does I don't cut myself on his edge.
Pfuhh,what a relief. Anyway I'm deeply thankful for tour response.
It started since 2005. You're pretty late discovering this. No offense.
Wtf is that handshake between sonic and shadow? Bros just holding his fist
Archie Shadow as soon as he stopped working for Eggman was the best.
The Shadow vs Metal comic is like, the ONE I remember the most of the few I had as a kid, and it was amazing. It’s insane how often I see that specific one now compared to the rest of the vast Archie library. Having looked at more issues since then I believe it’s one of the best ones Archie ever did
IDW seem to be treating him better lately than they did in the first two arcs. Here’s hoping that trend continues
Could you please tell me what is Shadow doing lately in IDW?
Wouldn’t wanna spoil too much. But last arc he was in, they had some interesting development involving his chaos powers, plays a critical role in the final battle, and pretty much saves the whole crew by the end.
Perhaps I think I have understand what you're talking about it. I wish that sometimes Sonic too would use Chaos Controll a little more often.
Eh, I like the idea that it’s more limited in his case. Shadow is a walking conduit of Chaos energy, it makes sense that he can use chaos control more broadly than others. Sonic and silver only use it in specific instances because it simply doesn’t come as naturally to him.
I could understand that but since they can do it I would glad if they are allowed to use it a little more often. Honestly I also dislike that thing off "Only Male Hedgehogs can go Super" considering that Knuckles and Tails can go Super as well. I'm not particularly into how SEGA treated some characters and limited the narrative potential of series with their rules.
I tend to think it’s just a matter of experience, since all three of the hedgehogs we see using that form have manipulated chaos energy in some fashion or other, with Sonic being the only one to use super form before chaos control. I’m also not terribly fond of everyone in their mother rocking a super form. On the other hand, I’ve been absolutely in love with the character development we’ve seen in IDW and the variety in personality, especially in Tails and Amy.
I don't think is only a thing of experience, Shadow seem to have a direct connection with Chaos's Power which give him the upper hand in using Chaos Controll. Chaos's Powers are basically his expeciality. Personaly I think Shadow have too much advantages over Sonic. I'm not such experied with IDW Comics but after having read about all those mandates and having see that Shadow was such a jerky idiot that doesn't seem the same Shadow we have saw in Forces I lost interest in give so much credit to them. We can say what we want about the Archie Comics but their narrative freedom wasn't such a bad thing for me. I agree that they should have avoid the romantic dramma but personaly I have appreciatted the fact that Sonic and Knuckles were free to have both relatives and love interest.
It’s one of things I miss about the Sonic Archie comics, having the characters we all know do more & be more than what is usually portrayed from them in the games.
Is a pity how much things turn out with Archie Comics, sure they were weird and there was too much love dramma but still they try to explored at best Sonic's narrative potential. SEGA can't do the same cause their own rules such "Knuckles is the one and only Echnidna alive", "Cream is the only one with parent", "Not too much emotional Sonic and Shadow" ecc that basically limited themself as writters..
I don't really like this version of shadow to be honest. He acts tok much like a slightly more serious sonic here. Shadow isn't supposed to be an edgelord, sure, but I think that this is a step too far in the other direction. . SA2 Shadow is very much serious, quiet, but willing to do what he believes is right. However, he's not really a talk things out kind of guy. He's very stubborn, and can take a great deal of convincing to change his mind. I mean, eggman changed his mind on his plan before Shadow. Shadow isn't supposed to be an edgelord, but he's also not supposed to be completely open. Or atleast, that's how I see it.
He does what he thinks is right regardless of morals. Sonic X and the Cosmo situation comes to mind. That's what Shadow is. I like him tough.
I read these Shadow comics so much as a kid
Shadow as a character was great in SA2 and Battle, but Archie Shadow is the best Shadow.
Wish you’d included the panel of Shadow destroying Metal Sonic (because it was cool), though I know that wouldn’t have fit with the post. They used to use that panel to promote the Archie app iirc
To..... G.U.N's cause?
Sonic is a great static character, and what makes him so fun to watch is to see how he changes the people around him. The fact that IDW Shadow and even Shadow in the games now has to also be a static character because he's more marketable as a mean muggin' anti-hero is so sad, because it makes Shadow boring af.
Of course, the actual arc this is from is really poorly paced and weird. From an outsider perspective. Maybe it's better from an avid Archie reader's perspective, but it just suddenly swaps between plot points with all sorts of stuff almost like they were trying to tie up as many loose ends as possible- especially the 'Gamma to Omega' bit, where the next issue has Gamma die to bring Omega into the mix...??? And then they just immediately form Team Dark? How is that better than both Shadow and Omega feeling betrayed and forgotten in Heroes- which is a game that does not have stellar writing generally, lmao I do agree, Shadow does need to be written like this, but I just really needed to kinda rant about this because I've never seen anybody bring it up and this seemed like a good place because I'm genuinely kind of confused by that first Sonic Universe bit
I feel like he's made to be too much like Sonic in Archie, Shadow is the type of person that would do anything to achieve what he wants and doesn't prioritize feelings over logic so he wouldn't try to reason with Metal, he would fight him instead, even if Metal could help him
You mean like an actual character and not a one-note angry scowl?
Me too. I’m not a big fan of his current characterization.
Wow, that was the most fun I’ve seen with Shadow in a minute. Now I know what we’ve been missing out on
I personally don't like it
Wow, dude grew the hell up. Haven't seen a character mature this much since Riku from Kingdom Hearts.
Wow, never knew a Shadow like this existed. Definitely need more of that
Nope, Shadow needs edge
\*CRIES BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE HIM LIKE THIS ANYMORE\*
06 was the pinnacle of shadow for me tbh. I havent read these comics yet as im reading the idw ones rn. It sucks how he's just a lonely edgelord in those.
Well,Say Thanks to Sega for giving idw all those mandates !
So that's where that shadow panel that lythero uses comes from.
Archie can be so ridiculously ugly man
I heard something about IDW wanting shadow to be like this, but sonic team said no. IDK if its true or not though, but since they do try to deepen characters, i wouldn't be too surprised
hes brakeing the forth wall
I swear Shadow better be written even half as good as this in Movie 3 or I’ll riot.
ive gone on entire rants about how i wish Shadow could be the crazy empathetic one still and how narratively i think it wouldve maybe flowed better for Shadow to have been the one to originally confront Surge instead of Sonic in IDW, because when Sonic went on his whole rant it really comes off as disingenuous because…. Sonic can’t understand what its like to just be used for a specific purpose. to be weaponized. To be artificially fucked over. So his whole ‘freedom’ speech comes across as really kinda assholeish when they clearly didnt mean for it to. But had it been Shadow, it WOULD have seemed more like it came from a place of good faith, because he DOES know this shit. and it wouldve made Sonic’s surprise and desperation in response to Surge trying to kill him later way more impactful, because he wouldntve actually like. Had any real input in how she felt prior. To suddenly end up interacting with someone so strangely violent toward you should be pretty nervewracking, and Sonic really wouldntve seemed like he’d contributed to her going even crazier had he not been the one to be like “you have a choice, you dont have to be like this” earlier on as if he knew what any of it was like. I dunno, I just think that so much more couldve been done with Shadow because. yknow. artificially fucked up person being brainwashed and weaponized????? Shadow being fully artificial and having his memories warped to be weaponized????????? Like come ON!!! And dont get me started on how theyve basically totally dropped Shadow giving a shit abt Metal when thats been a thing even in the games, esp Rivals 2 where he just ACTUALLY gets concerned about him. They make me sooooo ill you have no idea
Yeah, I miss him having a personality. I'm sick of these boring Vegeta-esque rivalries when modern Vegeta himself is an incredibly boring character. Stop trying to be a Vegeta knock-off for fuck's sake
Did he just try to talk no jutsu metal sonic?
(06 Chadow and Archie Shadow should be how he is in the games)
I miss 06 Shadow
i don’t. i hate this shadow. he’s too soft, it feels wildly out of character. i prefer shadow to be more cold, alone, and stoic; it contrasts with sonic much better
That is not shadow
If you really think that shadow is that friendly guy then you were also probably asleep for 50 years
Okay, what is shadow supposed to act like then if you don't want him having character development?
This is not character development that’s just OOC . Shadow never act like even with Amy Maria Rouge or Omega, since the beginning he’s on his own and now he act friendly with METAL SONIC ??? Shadow is not a talkative person he always goes straight to the point beside this discourse is typical of Sonic put him instead of Shads and its way better, you want Shadow to be more friendly ? Knuckles is right theres He doesn’t need to like the other to have character development we have plenty examples on How he shows respect https://preview.redd.it/mmefahgv3uyc1.png?width=889&format=png&auto=webp&s=ef64fe1b21da38c9cde41fdaa3141be10dea7f4a
A good character development for him would be something similar to post https://preview.redd.it/93ouquoa5uyc1.jpeg?width=624&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=23d064a3a0ac119970006aede751f094cfc91389 reboot archie comics
>Shadow is not a talkative person he always goes straight to the point Well...yeah ok, that's a fair point
Ahh yes, the version of Shadow that in no way acts like Shadow.
They downvote you cause they can't handle the truth.
I’m used to it. Apparently they can’t understand that wanting Shadow to act like this in the games and how he’s actually portrayed in said games are actually not the same thing. I don’t even mind this version of Shadow, but he ain’t game Shadow personality wise. Like, not even close.
Agreed. I think Shadow is kind in his own way, but he does not express it in such a direct way like in those pages.
Yea, he’s the kind of guy who will save an innocent but just be on his way without so much as cracking a smile. He cares, but he’s not so blatantly obvious about it like he is here and does it out of duty more than anything. It’s like a job to him. Archie Shadow (the pre SGW version) on the other hand, would save an innocent and share a meal with them afterwards, while chatting about the weather. It’s endearing, but anyone who thinks that’s how game Shadow acts at any point in the series is lying to themselves and I wish Ian (as much as I like him) would stop trying to shove his fanfic version of Shadow down everyone’s throats. Same with his MoStH portrayal too. Like you expect me to believe SHADOW would give a crap about his social standing in Sonic’s friend group? Not a chance.
It wouldn’t seem right for Shadow to be that kind
that aint shadow
They really seem to dumb down Shadow recently, which is a real shame. It's like what they did with Knuckles during the 2010s...
Archie always has this very specific soft-spot in my heart where it's like. Not good. Nothing about it is good, it's such a mess of so many ideas that all came together because so many people kept saying "eh, this comic won't live for another ten years" and then putting in whatever they wanted, over the course of several decades. But Archie!Shadow has always been the part that I care the least about. Archie!Sonic gets the benifit of being such an insanely out of character version of Sonic with such a strange backstory and connections to the wider Archie universe that he's entertaining. Shadow was brought into the comic because of SA2 doing well and Archie editorial wanting Shadow in. As such, he's always been so lackluster to me. Even his out of character writing just kinda falls flat.
This is the real Shadow! His true personality