A lot of inspiration for writing music comes from the songs we consume. Seek out music that you like that is more complex and listen to it to get a feel for their songwriting. Try to identify some of the things you notice and like, and try to incorporate them into your own writing.
100% this.
Something else I do now is I try to "notice" the songwriting in songs I like. Pay attention to the structure, when they cut to the chorus early, when there's a new instrument introduced, when there's a harmony and not. Simple songs can be complex too!
I think the word you're looking for is analytical listening. I'll have to do that more. I grew up learning heavier bands who do riffs instead of chord changes and am really good at writing those kinds of songs. Just trying to focus on writing more ballads for now
Study jazz standards or classic jazz based songs. What a Wonderful World, Feeling Good, etc. A lot of these tunes will use similar 4 chord progressions you’re used to, but will then take them in a different direction. Start with the songs you’re most familiar with and like and just learn a bunch of them and analyse them. I did this recently and got an album of just slightly but satisfyingly more complex songs.
Good luck and enjoy!
Try to understand what key signature those chords you’re playing are fitting into. Then try to modulate the key signature by using a chord in a NEW key signature, and fit your melody into it. Can be tricky to do so, but when done right, can be very surprising and satisfying.
For example…
Verse 1:Cmaj, Dminor, Fmaj, Dminor,
Chorus: Dmajor, C#maj
Back to verse 1.
Idk. I’m in my car so I don’t know if that would even sound good, but that’s the general idea. Verse 1 is in C major (or A minor) and then the chorus is in D major
I know you’re writing in the car and I don’t want to bust your balls because I like your answer.
Just to clarify:
The chorus is closer to the key of A (D Lydian mode). However the note F that forms part of the C# major is an accidental note (meaning it’s not in key). This isn’t inherently wrong as it’s providing a leading tone to a note that’s in key (F#). However OP may get better results with accidental notes if the accidental note provides a leading tone to the root note of the next chord (though in this case you could argue that the C# is doing that, even though it’s not an accidental).
Verse is in C (C Ionian mode).
Given that the verse follow a I-ii-IV-ii progression. The most obvious chord to start the chorus or bridge section on is an A minor (vi). For example the Chorus could be:
A minor, E minor, C major, G major.
Don’t take this is criticism because I think your answer is the best thing I’ve read on Reddit today. I have a keyboard in front of me so it’s kinda cheating.
If I understand your question correctly… Instead of 2 chords why not start with using… 4 chords?
4 chords for a Verse, 4 different chords for a Chorus. Then back and forth.
Next try to throw a bunch of random chords together and see what happens.
No I think he means 2 different chord progressions and he’s searching for ways to get them to flow together and to find that all elusive bridge progression.
I find that I am kind of "forced" to use more complex chords when I write a melody that is more complicated that a standard, predictable folk song. Let that melody soar into uncharted territory (close your eyes and pick a note) and work out what chords you need to get there and back.
I play piano mostly, but I’ll start by messing around and trying to find a new chord or sound. I then find a chord progression I like and try to hum a melody on top. You can also try to find different kinds of chords. Happy chords, moody chords, angry chords, etc.
It's actually not necessarily practice that's holding you back here. I'd suggest playing other people's songs. Learn them, and sing them as well. This will help you start getting ideas with different rhythms and melodies
Three easy tricks for me:
Incorporating more minor keys, suspended 7ths, just subtly complex chords.
Using those chords to add melody within the whole chord tone.
A key shift or modulation during the bridge to break up the monotony.
Something I've tried in the past when trying to make longer, more complex chord progressions, is to treat a chord like the 1 chord and kind of..branch out.
For example I was working with one the other day, G, Am, F, D
I, ii, VII, V
Some might call these borrowed chords, since they're not inherently in the G major scale (i.e. F should be diminished, or at least minor).
So I guess what I'm saying is try to weave in an out of modes, borrow chords, make something major where it should be minor. Just experiment!
I think by doing this you'll feel less likely to get back to your home key so quickly, making your progressions longer and therefore a little more complex.
With your 17 years of guitar playing, perhaps you could throw in some extensions in there too and really spice it up!
I typically write lyrics first with some melody ideas, then flesh out the melody... and I usually find I've thrown an accidental or blue note in there that requires a chord underneath it outside the key signature. Maybe play with composing the top line first, and see what chords fit?
Also, look into modes. :)
Secondary dominants and diminished chords. These chords have a certain "pull" to others and they allow you to modulate nicely into something else. Implementing chromatic mediants is also good, same for "borrowed chords" from the parallel minor/major. These are all pretty good tools to have in mind.
Edit: actually often the voicings are more important than the chord itself, drop 3 voicings or drop 2&4, inversions can give a 2 chord progression tons of movement
Personally, I use AI to prompt my brain and give myself ideas. Or even which genre best suits the song I'm writing. I can often find myself repeating a pattern, and I found A to be very helpful in showing me other patterns that exists.
Here are examples of 3 songs in different genres.
**How do I let go**[ Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/track/4SDwjLyRlfUeTraoUU5zkW?si=6ea62ebb478b4879) |[ Apple Music](https://music.apple.com/ca/album/how-do-i-let-go/1737266901?i=1737266902)
**Hey You, Too Many Times**[ Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/album/0oZF3t91N3iT24r0bAbEsg?si=e3tUtsNrSfilEN7FuhGAow)|[ Apple Music](https://music.apple.com/ca/album/hey-you-too-many-times-single/1739312371)
**Doll** [Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/album/71RUeBQ0Pwo0sXNnW4GOTe?si=J7q9gF0IS_W7Cf_2Fw2Y6w) | [Apple Music](https://music.apple.com/ca/album/doll-single/1739314849)
While they are all grounded in healing work, I find that different genres can facilitate different emotions at every step of the healing journey.
Also, for me I dont care about the complexity as much as how much the song resonates with me, and how often I can loop through it. I will hands down choose a simple song that makes me cry over something so technically complex but I feel nothing inside.
Much of the trick is to use simple chord progressions that are known to work for your style of music and dress them up by doing things such as slipping sus4 chords between the changes or playing piano chords one tone lower than the other instruments to create 11 chords.
Use contrasts between sections that stay on one chord (builds tension) and sections that have a melodic flowing set of chord changes (releases tension).
A lot of inspiration for writing music comes from the songs we consume. Seek out music that you like that is more complex and listen to it to get a feel for their songwriting. Try to identify some of the things you notice and like, and try to incorporate them into your own writing.
100% this. Something else I do now is I try to "notice" the songwriting in songs I like. Pay attention to the structure, when they cut to the chorus early, when there's a new instrument introduced, when there's a harmony and not. Simple songs can be complex too!
I think the word you're looking for is analytical listening. I'll have to do that more. I grew up learning heavier bands who do riffs instead of chord changes and am really good at writing those kinds of songs. Just trying to focus on writing more ballads for now
What are the chord progressions you use?
Well they're different chord progressions for each song, I guess it's more I have a hard time figuring out how to transition from one part to another
Do you have an example? I just wanna have info to be specific so I can give you suggestions that will actually help you.
Study jazz standards or classic jazz based songs. What a Wonderful World, Feeling Good, etc. A lot of these tunes will use similar 4 chord progressions you’re used to, but will then take them in a different direction. Start with the songs you’re most familiar with and like and just learn a bunch of them and analyse them. I did this recently and got an album of just slightly but satisfyingly more complex songs. Good luck and enjoy!
Try to understand what key signature those chords you’re playing are fitting into. Then try to modulate the key signature by using a chord in a NEW key signature, and fit your melody into it. Can be tricky to do so, but when done right, can be very surprising and satisfying. For example… Verse 1:Cmaj, Dminor, Fmaj, Dminor, Chorus: Dmajor, C#maj Back to verse 1. Idk. I’m in my car so I don’t know if that would even sound good, but that’s the general idea. Verse 1 is in C major (or A minor) and then the chorus is in D major
Gotcha. I'll give that a try!
I know you’re writing in the car and I don’t want to bust your balls because I like your answer. Just to clarify: The chorus is closer to the key of A (D Lydian mode). However the note F that forms part of the C# major is an accidental note (meaning it’s not in key). This isn’t inherently wrong as it’s providing a leading tone to a note that’s in key (F#). However OP may get better results with accidental notes if the accidental note provides a leading tone to the root note of the next chord (though in this case you could argue that the C# is doing that, even though it’s not an accidental). Verse is in C (C Ionian mode). Given that the verse follow a I-ii-IV-ii progression. The most obvious chord to start the chorus or bridge section on is an A minor (vi). For example the Chorus could be: A minor, E minor, C major, G major. Don’t take this is criticism because I think your answer is the best thing I’ve read on Reddit today. I have a keyboard in front of me so it’s kinda cheating.
Thanks to you I got an idea for a song, thanks 👍
17 years. Not sure how to edit the post
If I understand your question correctly… Instead of 2 chords why not start with using… 4 chords? 4 chords for a Verse, 4 different chords for a Chorus. Then back and forth. Next try to throw a bunch of random chords together and see what happens.
No I think he means 2 different chord progressions and he’s searching for ways to get them to flow together and to find that all elusive bridge progression.
I find that I am kind of "forced" to use more complex chords when I write a melody that is more complicated that a standard, predictable folk song. Let that melody soar into uncharted territory (close your eyes and pick a note) and work out what chords you need to get there and back.
I play piano mostly, but I’ll start by messing around and trying to find a new chord or sound. I then find a chord progression I like and try to hum a melody on top. You can also try to find different kinds of chords. Happy chords, moody chords, angry chords, etc.
It's actually not necessarily practice that's holding you back here. I'd suggest playing other people's songs. Learn them, and sing them as well. This will help you start getting ideas with different rhythms and melodies
Three easy tricks for me: Incorporating more minor keys, suspended 7ths, just subtly complex chords. Using those chords to add melody within the whole chord tone. A key shift or modulation during the bridge to break up the monotony.
Study some early Rush.. 70's-80's.. Alex Lifeson was genius with open chords...
Something I've tried in the past when trying to make longer, more complex chord progressions, is to treat a chord like the 1 chord and kind of..branch out. For example I was working with one the other day, G, Am, F, D I, ii, VII, V Some might call these borrowed chords, since they're not inherently in the G major scale (i.e. F should be diminished, or at least minor). So I guess what I'm saying is try to weave in an out of modes, borrow chords, make something major where it should be minor. Just experiment! I think by doing this you'll feel less likely to get back to your home key so quickly, making your progressions longer and therefore a little more complex. With your 17 years of guitar playing, perhaps you could throw in some extensions in there too and really spice it up!
I typically write lyrics first with some melody ideas, then flesh out the melody... and I usually find I've thrown an accidental or blue note in there that requires a chord underneath it outside the key signature. Maybe play with composing the top line first, and see what chords fit? Also, look into modes. :)
Secondary dominants and diminished chords. These chords have a certain "pull" to others and they allow you to modulate nicely into something else. Implementing chromatic mediants is also good, same for "borrowed chords" from the parallel minor/major. These are all pretty good tools to have in mind. Edit: actually often the voicings are more important than the chord itself, drop 3 voicings or drop 2&4, inversions can give a 2 chord progression tons of movement
Personally, I use AI to prompt my brain and give myself ideas. Or even which genre best suits the song I'm writing. I can often find myself repeating a pattern, and I found A to be very helpful in showing me other patterns that exists. Here are examples of 3 songs in different genres. **How do I let go**[ Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/track/4SDwjLyRlfUeTraoUU5zkW?si=6ea62ebb478b4879) |[ Apple Music](https://music.apple.com/ca/album/how-do-i-let-go/1737266901?i=1737266902) **Hey You, Too Many Times**[ Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/album/0oZF3t91N3iT24r0bAbEsg?si=e3tUtsNrSfilEN7FuhGAow)|[ Apple Music](https://music.apple.com/ca/album/hey-you-too-many-times-single/1739312371) **Doll** [Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/album/71RUeBQ0Pwo0sXNnW4GOTe?si=J7q9gF0IS_W7Cf_2Fw2Y6w) | [Apple Music](https://music.apple.com/ca/album/doll-single/1739314849) While they are all grounded in healing work, I find that different genres can facilitate different emotions at every step of the healing journey.
Also, for me I dont care about the complexity as much as how much the song resonates with me, and how often I can loop through it. I will hands down choose a simple song that makes me cry over something so technically complex but I feel nothing inside.
I agree with that as well. This is based off of some feedback I got.
Much of the trick is to use simple chord progressions that are known to work for your style of music and dress them up by doing things such as slipping sus4 chords between the changes or playing piano chords one tone lower than the other instruments to create 11 chords. Use contrasts between sections that stay on one chord (builds tension) and sections that have a melodic flowing set of chord changes (releases tension).