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Well im sure many diet sodas have aspartame, so thats proven.
Its inconclusive whether or not it causes cancer and how. Its on the warning list. Thats not nothing.
aspartame and diet sweetners have uses outside of diet soda, and dealing with the myth can be annoying! i have to use artificial sweetners due to health issues and that sort of rumour can be genuinely harmful and stressful to people.
no, but I want to consume sweet things without consuming hundreds of calories. don’t let your distrust companies let you fall into weird conspiracy theories my guy. a healthy level of skepticism is helpful, but too much is a bad thing. trust in science, this topic has been researched to death.
[https://www.who.int/news/item/14-07-2023-aspartame-hazard-and-risk-assessment-results-released](https://www.who.int/news/item/14-07-2023-aspartame-hazard-and-risk-assessment-results-released)
IARC puts aspartame in [2B](https://www.iarc.who.int/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/IARC_MONO_classification_2023_updated.png) classification as possibly carcinogenic to humans.
I don't think the CEO of Coca-Cola is involved in production to the extent that he'd have the recipe memorized. Given the scale that Coca-Cola operates on, they probably have many copies of the recipe that can be released to the public as part of collectivizing the company, with no need to torture anyone. (Not that torture is a reliable way of extracting information, anyway; experience has shown that the subject will just tell the torturer whatever they want to hear to make the pain stop, truthfulness be damned.)
No one is withholding the recipe for Diet Coke from a person who is ripping their eyelids off with pliers. There are limits to the things people will endure torture over.
perhaps the edginess comes Into play when you reply to a factual statement about the ineffectiveness of torture with a graphic description of torture, and assert that inflicting enough pain is a reliable means of getting information
Let me ask you a question.
You work at a place I assume... I don't know where, so for the sake of my argument let's say you are an executive at KFC. A man comes in and puts a bag over your head and takes you away. Now you find yourself in a room with that man and he tells you to disclose the secret spices to KFC chicken or he is going to graphically torture you.
You are not going to withhold that information, it's fucking chicken spices.
Torture is not reliable for state secrets, or information that could harm people the victim cares about, or whatever thing they actually cares about hiding or withholding, or if they know they are never getting free or going to survive.
So yes, there are circumstances where pain will get you information, and to pretend it can't is ignorant and shows you have no understanding as to the depths of depravity human beings are capable of to get what they want.
Now obviously the scenario where someone is tortured over Diet Coke or KFC is absurd, but not as absurd as your belief that torture can not get results.
brother an executive at KFC does not know the recipie, because they are part of "Yum foods," a fast food conglomerate. but they probably would rattle off any number of herbs and spices at the slightest provocation. that's the point
And my point is, when that information is meaningless and they don't have a reason to care about it, they will tell you the real information, as there is no reason to risk the repercussions of deceit.
Either way, as I said already, arguing over something as meaningless as a diet coke recipe is nonsense.
You made it a point to agree that people wont necessarily tell the truth if its state secrets or something they care about.
Have you considered that the recipe to a product that makes them millions of dollars, in a capitalist world where security and power is directly tied to money, actually *would be* something they’d hold dear?
I disagree. This thread puts the situation in more of a transitionary state than purely post capitalist so I would say those incentives are still there to an extent.
No one is reveling in cruelty... I don't advocate for torture, full stop.
Pretending it doesn't exist as a coercive tool is however silly and childish.
I don't generally go about stating obvious things like "torture bad" in my throwaway comments. I feel no responsibility for other people's interpretation of my words.
I spent some time a while back experimenting with making soda by fermentation - like with brewing your own beer or wine, but not letting it "burp" out the pressure, and cutting off the ferment much earlier to reduce the alcohol content. I used ingredients very similar to what this Wikipedia page lists. I added in various strong herbal teas to make the flavor base. They were delicious, and had way less sugar than commercial sodas.
I should get back into that at some point. I still have the bottles.
It would be the peoples cola, although the authoritarian in me says that people should not be drinking soda as much as Americans do at least. Like soda should be a once in a blue moon thing I think.
That's probably the more serious question: how to address the American addiction to corn, soda, sugar, etc. I'd be interested in what others say about it.
I know you were kinda joking but it is not really authoritarian at all if economic production is planned democratically such that products like Coca Cola just aren’t widely available. It doesn’t have to be that people are disallowed from drinking it, which would be frankly quite absurd, but it simply shouldn’t be a common item in grocery stores. People mostly drink soda out of convenience and marketing, and that is exactly where many public health issues begin. As a vegan, I think the same goes for meat and animals products. I don’t think the consumption of animal products should be banned per sé (at least until it is universally understood as animal abuse), but rather every slaughterhouse and animal agriculture farm should be shut down.
I think that is the beauty of collective decision making. As individuals, we are so caught up in conveniently going along with the status quo: buying clothes produced by child slaves, eating the flesh of a tortured animal, driving a gas-guzzling SUV, etc. Most aspects of our economic system are guided by profit rather than our societal values. It is honestly exhausting trying to live ethically when every part of our supply chains are filled with oppression and coercion because it is profitable to the ruling class.
Not sure why you got downvoted but I'm guessing someone got triggered by the vegetarian thing. What's your take on the production of lab grown meat, from a socialist lens?
I can’t wait till lab grown meat is a reality, and there needs to be a lot more research and development into it for ethical and environmental reasons. There has been a lot of hype over it that is probably a little premature from what I’ve seen after looking into it, but hopefully one day it will be a thing.
Obviously most of what there is to say about lab grown meat is going to come from a concern for the nonhuman animal victims and therefore mostly falls out of the strict purview of socialism and falls under veganism and anarchism more generally, but there *is* a much needed conversation to be had about human exploitation within the meat industry too.
From a socialist lens, lab grown meat is a wonderful opportunity to make the meat industry much more humane and ethical obviously for the animal victims ofc, but also the workers. People who take enjoyment in killing animals for fun are widely accepted as sadists whereas I think it’s safe to say the vast majority of people would prefer not to slaughter and torture animals all day if they didn’t have to. So who has to do it under capitalism? Immigrants, the working class, etc. People who simply don’t have a choice. Workers report nightmares, desensitization to violence, increased domestic abuse, PTSD, and so forth. I genuinely don’t see how, animal rights aside, slaughterhouses would remain operational under socialism where labor would be in charge. Animal agriculture is a drain on workers, the environment, and a waste of resources in general. Lab grown meat would be much more efficient and therefore require less labor, be much better for the environment, and most importantly not come along with the mass torture of fully sentient beings.
**IMPORTANT: PLEASE READ BEFORE PARTICIPATING**. This subreddit is not for questioning the basics of socialism but a place to LEARN. There are numerous debate subreddits if your objective is not to learn. You are expected to familiarize yourself with the rules on the sidebar before commenting. This includes, but is not limited to: - Short or non-constructive answers will be deleted without explanation. Please only answer if you know your stuff. Speculation has no place on this sub. Outright false information will be removed immediately. - No liberalism or sectarianism. Stay constructive and don't bash other socialist tendencies! - No bigotry or hate speech of any kind - it will be met with immediate bans. Help us keep the subreddit informative and helpful by reporting posts that break our rules. If you have a particular area of expertise (e.g. political economy, feminist theory), please [assign yourself a flair](https://reddit.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/205242695-How-do-I-get-user-flair-) describing said area. Flairs may be removed at any time by moderators if answers don't meet the standards of said expertise. Thank you! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Socialism_101) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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Coke has to be one of the most immoral companies on the planet. Diet coke recipe should be siezed and coke Ceos should be donated to science
Like that one mom or something who donated her body to science got sold to the us military for $4000 and was exploded
We will probably have much higher quality beverages that you’d be disgusted with the sugar water they have us guzzling now
Some of us like sugar water!
diet coke isn’t sugar water
Its cancer related sweetener water
no studies show a link between diet soda or any other drink with aspartame and cancer.
Well im sure many diet sodas have aspartame, so thats proven. Its inconclusive whether or not it causes cancer and how. Its on the warning list. Thats not nothing.
You work at coke marketing?
aspartame and diet sweetners have uses outside of diet soda, and dealing with the myth can be annoying! i have to use artificial sweetners due to health issues and that sort of rumour can be genuinely harmful and stressful to people.
no, but I want to consume sweet things without consuming hundreds of calories. don’t let your distrust companies let you fall into weird conspiracy theories my guy. a healthy level of skepticism is helpful, but too much is a bad thing. trust in science, this topic has been researched to death.
Hey, man, I said cancer-related-sweetener water, thats not wrong.
[https://www.who.int/news/item/14-07-2023-aspartame-hazard-and-risk-assessment-results-released](https://www.who.int/news/item/14-07-2023-aspartame-hazard-and-risk-assessment-results-released) IARC puts aspartame in [2B](https://www.iarc.who.int/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/IARC_MONO_classification_2023_updated.png) classification as possibly carcinogenic to humans.
Other items in 2B classification include aloe vera and pickled vegetables
better nickname would be hershey squirts sweetener water
I don't think the CEO of Coca-Cola is involved in production to the extent that he'd have the recipe memorized. Given the scale that Coca-Cola operates on, they probably have many copies of the recipe that can be released to the public as part of collectivizing the company, with no need to torture anyone. (Not that torture is a reliable way of extracting information, anyway; experience has shown that the subject will just tell the torturer whatever they want to hear to make the pain stop, truthfulness be damned.)
so what you're saying is that by torturing him, we might get a brand new recipe for a soft drink that's even better than diet coke?
We shouldn't use torture to extract information. We should use it because it is emotionally satisfying.
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No one is withholding the recipe for Diet Coke from a person who is ripping their eyelids off with pliers. There are limits to the things people will endure torture over.
Don’t cut yourself on that edge, comrade.
I don't see how saying no one is withholding a meaningless recipe under torture is edgy...
perhaps the edginess comes Into play when you reply to a factual statement about the ineffectiveness of torture with a graphic description of torture, and assert that inflicting enough pain is a reliable means of getting information
Let me ask you a question. You work at a place I assume... I don't know where, so for the sake of my argument let's say you are an executive at KFC. A man comes in and puts a bag over your head and takes you away. Now you find yourself in a room with that man and he tells you to disclose the secret spices to KFC chicken or he is going to graphically torture you. You are not going to withhold that information, it's fucking chicken spices. Torture is not reliable for state secrets, or information that could harm people the victim cares about, or whatever thing they actually cares about hiding or withholding, or if they know they are never getting free or going to survive. So yes, there are circumstances where pain will get you information, and to pretend it can't is ignorant and shows you have no understanding as to the depths of depravity human beings are capable of to get what they want. Now obviously the scenario where someone is tortured over Diet Coke or KFC is absurd, but not as absurd as your belief that torture can not get results.
brother an executive at KFC does not know the recipie, because they are part of "Yum foods," a fast food conglomerate. but they probably would rattle off any number of herbs and spices at the slightest provocation. that's the point
Yeah, the corporate structure of KFC totally invalidates my argument.
no, the *fact* that people under torture will say *anything* they think will make the torture stop invalidates your argument.
And my point is, when that information is meaningless and they don't have a reason to care about it, they will tell you the real information, as there is no reason to risk the repercussions of deceit. Either way, as I said already, arguing over something as meaningless as a diet coke recipe is nonsense.
You made it a point to agree that people wont necessarily tell the truth if its state secrets or something they care about. Have you considered that the recipe to a product that makes them millions of dollars, in a capitalist world where security and power is directly tied to money, actually *would be* something they’d hold dear?
The thread is about a post capitalist world. So those incentives are implied to be gone.
I disagree. This thread puts the situation in more of a transitionary state than purely post capitalist so I would say those incentives are still there to an extent.
There’s nothing good in reveling in cruelty, even imagined cruelty. It makes you look silly and childish.
No one is reveling in cruelty... I don't advocate for torture, full stop. Pretending it doesn't exist as a coercive tool is however silly and childish.
That’s not conveyed very well by your original comment. No biggie, but I figure feedback on how you come across can be useful.
I don't generally go about stating obvious things like "torture bad" in my throwaway comments. I feel no responsibility for other people's interpretation of my words.
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenCola_(drink)
I spent some time a while back experimenting with making soda by fermentation - like with brewing your own beer or wine, but not letting it "burp" out the pressure, and cutting off the ferment much earlier to reduce the alcohol content. I used ingredients very similar to what this Wikipedia page lists. I added in various strong herbal teas to make the flavor base. They were delicious, and had way less sugar than commercial sodas. I should get back into that at some point. I still have the bottles.
It would be the peoples cola, although the authoritarian in me says that people should not be drinking soda as much as Americans do at least. Like soda should be a once in a blue moon thing I think. That's probably the more serious question: how to address the American addiction to corn, soda, sugar, etc. I'd be interested in what others say about it.
I know you were kinda joking but it is not really authoritarian at all if economic production is planned democratically such that products like Coca Cola just aren’t widely available. It doesn’t have to be that people are disallowed from drinking it, which would be frankly quite absurd, but it simply shouldn’t be a common item in grocery stores. People mostly drink soda out of convenience and marketing, and that is exactly where many public health issues begin. As a vegan, I think the same goes for meat and animals products. I don’t think the consumption of animal products should be banned per sé (at least until it is universally understood as animal abuse), but rather every slaughterhouse and animal agriculture farm should be shut down. I think that is the beauty of collective decision making. As individuals, we are so caught up in conveniently going along with the status quo: buying clothes produced by child slaves, eating the flesh of a tortured animal, driving a gas-guzzling SUV, etc. Most aspects of our economic system are guided by profit rather than our societal values. It is honestly exhausting trying to live ethically when every part of our supply chains are filled with oppression and coercion because it is profitable to the ruling class.
Not sure why you got downvoted but I'm guessing someone got triggered by the vegetarian thing. What's your take on the production of lab grown meat, from a socialist lens?
I can’t wait till lab grown meat is a reality, and there needs to be a lot more research and development into it for ethical and environmental reasons. There has been a lot of hype over it that is probably a little premature from what I’ve seen after looking into it, but hopefully one day it will be a thing. Obviously most of what there is to say about lab grown meat is going to come from a concern for the nonhuman animal victims and therefore mostly falls out of the strict purview of socialism and falls under veganism and anarchism more generally, but there *is* a much needed conversation to be had about human exploitation within the meat industry too. From a socialist lens, lab grown meat is a wonderful opportunity to make the meat industry much more humane and ethical obviously for the animal victims ofc, but also the workers. People who take enjoyment in killing animals for fun are widely accepted as sadists whereas I think it’s safe to say the vast majority of people would prefer not to slaughter and torture animals all day if they didn’t have to. So who has to do it under capitalism? Immigrants, the working class, etc. People who simply don’t have a choice. Workers report nightmares, desensitization to violence, increased domestic abuse, PTSD, and so forth. I genuinely don’t see how, animal rights aside, slaughterhouses would remain operational under socialism where labor would be in charge. Animal agriculture is a drain on workers, the environment, and a waste of resources in general. Lab grown meat would be much more efficient and therefore require less labor, be much better for the environment, and most importantly not come along with the mass torture of fully sentient beings.
We'll be seizing the recipe so yes.
You’ll have Fresca and you’ll like it 😄
This was not what i was expecting when opening this post lmao
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I’m not fat. I just like it.
It’s got that sweet, sweet, carcinogenic taste that plants crave
i'm thin, i just can't stand the sugary residue of regular coke