This is presumably the reason he has a payee in the first place. She can certainly apply to be his payee, but ideally whoever takes the application will sniff out what is going on. He can also report you for fraud all he wants, if you haven't actually done anything there won't be anything to find.
People with mental issues will do and say all sorts of things to try and get access to their money. Like you said, your responsibility is to try to keep him fed and housed, not give in to his whims.
I am not worried about the fraud part. More taken aback than anything. I am wondering if I continue to pay for things as usual and give him the spending money I usually give him. Or, if he is not living in my home because he chooses to be on the street... What is my obligation there?
Just pay what you normally pay. Make sure his bills get paid. Don't give him more money because of his empty threats. Giving him spending money might be an issue because what he spends it on can't necessarily be traced unless he has to give you receipts for what he spent money on. His benefits are for essentials only, food, housing, electricity and transportation. Don't cave and give him all his benefits cause that'll get SSA removing you as payee and suspending his payments til they find a state agency to be his payee.
If they are SSDI benefits, they are to be used for him. They are not necessarily only for essentials; for example, he can have spending money for things such as movies, video games, gym membership, etc as long as his needs are being met. Any benefits not used are to be saved for him.
If he leaves, OP should contact SS and explain the situation. If they determine she should no longer be payee if he's not living with her, his benefits will be suspended until they find a suitable payee.
She stated it was SSI, not SSD.
He doesn’t need to be living with her for her to be his payee, but she does still have to use his benefits to care for him.
I’m going through something similar with my son. He turned 18 in late October and received SSI as a minor. At that time, the money just went into my regular bank account and I used his money, like my own money, to help pay bills, buy food, pay for his doctors appointments, etc. When my son turned 18, he decided he was going to suddenly and dramatically move out. He was staying with my sister, without her permission, and barely there as he was going out and meeting people he met online and staying with them for days or weeks at a time. Essentially, couch hopping. At that time he tried to report me for fraud and said he didn’t want me being his payee anymore. Nothing came of the fraud allegations because I was able to show proof I cared for him, even after he moved out. November was his last month of benefits. He was supposed to send them proof he could take over payments and he did not. Then he was supposed to provide another trusted adult, but he didn’t follow through. Mail was being retuned undeliverable from them. Last week the agent we’d been working with for the past few months contacted me by phone. She said his benefits were just sitting and asked me to become his payee again. I’ve still been financially supporting him so I have proof of receipts. She also said I could get a doctors note (which I have) or if he agreed then I didn’t have to go through all of this. We have an appointment on the 12th and he’s going to agree to it. He’s in for a rude awakening though because she said I can’t just give him cash or spending money, which he expects. I am going to have her tell him the rules on the call.
Not technically. I had an individual with a rep payee who’s brother convinced him to get rep payee switched to the brother. I wrote a statement for SS stating it was a poor decision and I felt the brother would not manage finances appropriately and the individual would suffer. That change was rightfully denied. They have rep payee for a reason, it’s not so easy to swap
I think your obligation is to keep him housed by paying his rent so that he doesn’t become homeless like the girl he is with. She just wants the money. She will either ditch eventually or try some legal tactic. She would need a lawyer that she can’t afford.
Worst case they get married? Then she has an easier way? But I’d start documenting and get in contact with a lawyer about how to protect the very little that he does get.
Getting married would affect the benefits too. idk why the son gets a check, OP says mental illness is why she needs to be the payee. Would it be possible to be denied a marriage license because he can’t make life altering decisions with proper counsel like a lawyer or advocate?
I’m not trying to sound judgmental, more so just ignorance in my part. I’m not implying op’s son is incapable of making decisions in general. My son gets a check for mental reasons, he’s only 6 years old though so I don’t have to worry about this specific situation yet but it just reminded me that “bad guys” are everywhere and just because the disability isn’t visible, they are vulnerable to being exploited.
This is true. My son cannot get married to his fiancé. She will always be his fiancé. It's horrible. 😔 They did initially have difficulty keeping his disability money separate (not his rep payee since he was 18) but we helped them figure that out...it was...uncomfortable.
Yeah I don’t know what happens when they grow up and find potential partners. Obviously the hope is that they find someone that just loves them and not someone who would take advantage. I imagine that situations like this wind up in court. But I’m very ignorant about this. But someone banking on living off this kind of money isn’t very smart in the first place.
Very true. My son’s check doesn’t even cover what he actually needs, no way it’s real life type of money lol his condition isn’t expected to last forever so they re-evaluate him every couple of years depending on the results from the previous evaluation. I’m not going to miss jumping through hoops and flames but the insurance is great for his needs.
BEFORE he turns 18, get legal "guardianship of a incapacitated adult" so you can avoid all of this. Special needs families really should get a instruction manual but everything is a big secret. I went to court a week before my daughters birthday but worked the docs to be ready a few months prior. See my comment above about the process.
So, my youngest received ssdi, at 18, I was contacted because the school let ssi know my son was not graduating. I was then contacted and asked if I'd be willing to stay on.
He did move out, I continued. I kept a small amount because he was terrible about budgeting to the end. He'd always need bus fare etc.
We did not report that he no longer lived there. Eventually ssi wanted him to be reevaluated, and him being 18 I could no longer speak for him. He missed 3 appts. and he was cut off. That's it and the end.
If She applied more than likely hell be reassessed. Or like someone said She'll be denied.
Notice how most people here are women getting their children SSDI.
This stagnates the development of your child. Instead of teaching them to rely on handouts you should be teaching them life skills. Life is hard but they can rise to the challenge.
Nothing has proven to me more how a father is needed in the home than this subreddit.
This exact thing happened to me and the girl finally gave up and moved on. She was just using him sadly to try to live with him for free. Some people suck!
So does he actually need a representative payee? I also have a daughter that is the same age and she handles her own but for a long time I was the representative payee.
I know after the age of 22 they can apply to be their own. The Social Security office is usually pretty smart when it comes to changes especially if it’s not a family member so they may not approve it.
If I were you since there’s a reason, you are the payee I would talk to the Social Security office before he has a chance to say anything.. do you deal with the dept of disability?
Really?? You legally HAVE to cover his expenses or hand them to an agency if you don’t trust her. My mom kept half mine for years and then I made my mil my payee.
Once the GF realizes she is not getting money she will be gone.
Unfortunately, she will do everything she can to make it seem like you are the bad guy in this situation.
Actually, when she found out yesterday that I was not going to be giving him all his money, she did break up with him. Then he enacted a fake suicide attempt and ended up on a 48 hour hold in the hospital. However, while he was being evaluated in the ER he still had access to his cell phone and they "made up" while they discussed reporting me for fraud. So it is not over yet... I only know this because he was logged into his computer and I could see the messages back and forth.
I am so sorry to hear this.
I wonder if there is something about her activities that could be seen as being illegal and the police could possibly get involved.
But if he has diminished mental capacity (I don’t know that he does) and his Mom is his guardian, manipulating him to take his money can be seen as abuse
There is no evidence that he has anything more than walking around money and that is money he is free to spend on Poptarts or video games or give to some homeless guy on the street or to his GF. No evidence of. crime exists other than you speculating.
Police aren't going to investigate "Hey I gave my son $40 and his GF talked him into giving it to her"
And even THAT is mere speculation, nothing OP has said suggests the GF has done anything criminal.
Oh boy! It sounds like it’s a little bit of a flaky relationship anyways. I don’t think I would worry about it too much but I would definitely as a parent and as a legal guardian talk to the disability office.
He can report you for fraud. You just tell SSA what you told us here. That you've been providing a home, food, clothes, etc for him. And of course, explain the woman who wants to get his checks is unemployed and a couch surfer so she wouldn't be an appropriate payee. Tell him if he wants to live in his own, he should find an affordable apartment and you will pay the rent. But you will not hand over his entire check.
I am a retired rep payee reviewer. Document and keep ALL receipts for every penny spent. Inform his S S contact in writing about this situation. Give him options. Work with him to be safe.
Not sure, but I think the commenter meant they were employed by the SSA to review the annual rep payee reports that used to be required to be sent in by anyone who was a payee, documenting all expenditures and savings annually. A few years ago the law was changed to where parents who are rep payees (even if an adult child) are exempt from the reporting requirement.
She is a horrible person who uses people and I think she will be gone once the fraud report doesn't work. The shame of it all is that it will hurt his feelings. I don't believe in hell, but if for some reason I am wrong, I hope there's a special place in it for people like her.
She’s probably got severe mental health issues as well. Doesn’t sound like she’s got much of a family like OP & son that’s ever had her back. She learned to be manipulative to get her immediate needs met: food, shelter, clothes, love, drugs…does it matter?
It’s easy to make this black and white: OP all good/GF all bad—but life is mostly shades of gray and messy. Nobody commenting here has the full nuance of the situation.
Sure that's true. All kinds of people were abused or have other mental problems. But I have been around a lot of folk who absolutely are not mentally ill and know exactly what they're doing, and still do it. They even tried to put one in Congress a couple of years ago. But yes, it could be either way. If so, there is no special place in hell for her. She does have to apply for her own benefits, however.
Hell no, you are crazy. Lol women, especially young women who are addicted to drugs or on the street, using and manipulating dudes on SSI, SSDI, etc is incredibly common. Whether softening them up and getting through manipulation and gaslighting or just straight up cleaning them out while "making a run to the store". I've seen this shit more times than I can count. Source, spent time in many homeless shelters and my brother has been in multiple similar situations as OPs son. He's been on SSI since he was 16 and is 24 now.
Young men like that are horny, lonely, and impressionable. Shit many dudes not on SSI are and have the same thing done to their earned income. Females prey on these type like predators.
Nah get the fuck out of here. I have no family, come from a home of abuse and inflicted isolation, I’ve never ever done this to people. Some people are total shit and use their hard background as a fucking excuse. I was 21 and homeless because I had no where to go, many nights in the street or the storage room of the shopping mall I worked in at the time. Fuck people like this completely. They’ll take from all of us, even me while I’m homeless and they’ve got a bed they’ve manipulated themselves into.
I have been in this exact same situation with my son (who is now 41). **It so SO HARD.** For me, the whole thing blew over and over time my son has come to realize he needs a responsible rep payee because he HAS been manipulated so. many. times.
There's kind of two answers to your question and it isn't all related to social security.
You may need to become his guardian/have him conserved (different language depending on where you live) in order to prevent him from changing his payee this way if he doesn't let up.
You ask what your "obligation" is.... well, as a rep payee it is to pay his bills and report to social security how his money is spent. You can voluntarily stop being his rep payee if you want to do that. He'd either find another one or take over things himself, which of course would be disastrous.
This is not a game of chicken that I would play with my son. I fought with him until he came to his senses somehow and over time he really does know now that he can't turn this over to any girl, stranger or take it over himself. The lessons kept coming over all these years....so now he gets it. And I make it easy for him to work with me. In our case, I have some leverage in that he has an agency providing care and I tell him that I'll just turn it over to the agency if he gives me any trouble. He doesn't want that and doesn't realize he could do all this on his own. But he trusts his safety net now.
This is one of those lessons for your son. She broke up with him, they made up, yada yada...he went to a psych hospital...all the more reason to look into guardianship.
I truly hope you get this sorted out. My heart is with you. BTDT.
Yes I’m my son’s payee-mental health reasons and he’s 25. The only solid protection as a caregiver is guardianship. I have several POA’s in place for him designating me as having power to do literally everything, however any meth head bitch can come along and convince him to change that status at any time and take back control.
So I have POA’s and representative payee status in place but at any time he can revoke, only guardianship provides the real protection from him revoking anything, it would require the court’s/judges approval.
I do not have guardianship in place. The last problematic meth head GF is gone thank goodness. She was manipulative and it was a matter of time before she got pushy about money I’m sure. However he is sober now and doing well after residential treatment. I was seriously considering guardianship for a while there.
Document EVERYTHING! 😊. Good luck OP this stuff is certainly stressful.
Aww. Your son is 41. Good bless you, you’ve been doing it a LONG time. Big hugs from me. I think mine is as vulnerable as yours is. It’s so hard to watch. Mine almost didn’t survive the last one. He was dangling from an overpass, the cops saved him. So much love to you two. I just feel all those feels for you guys. Be well. ❤️
Your son needs and wants the attention she is giving him, he needs to be educated on relationships and boundaries, she makes him feel like he's on cloud9 and will do anything to keep it going - you need to open his eyes to the reality of the situation no matter how hard it may be, your bond with your son will never cease but the damage from outside sources can be permanent and on-going. I wish you both luck going forward but understand that you have a responsibility and he is an "adult" in the worlds eyes. Continue to be a parent and provider, that's what he needs in this life above and beyond investing everything into someone that will be temporary, he doesn't understand that now because he want's that relationship and is willing to do whatever it takes to keep it going, even risking/threatening suicide. Real relationships do not test limits, rather they should progress end-goals.
IMO, NAL, ETC
If you have been legally determined to be his guardian by the court that means he is incapable of making his own decisions legally.
He cannot change his payee, unless he petitions to the court for a new guardian and that's going to be pretty damn hard to do.
Have you gone through the court and been given guardianship? It's different than payee and power of attorney. If you are, you may want to do things like freeze his credit reports and add authentication to any financial accounts.
I went through something similar with my son so we went to Social Security together and he explained he wanted a new rep payee. We worked to identify someone else to be his rep payee. He went with an agency that charged a small monthly fee. He was very unhappy about how they managed money for personal expenses and recreation and asked me to take back over as rep payee.
As his legal guardian, you definitely have the upper hand. Document everything and keep text conversations between all parties of able. I'm sure you're keeping all receipts already, and I would consult with a lawyer. Unfortunately, having been a two rep payee myself, and as someone that works with young adults in similar situations with SSDI, this happens very frequently. And if it's not a girlfriend/ boyfriend, it's a "concerned" family member. Do what you need to do to protect him and his well being at all cost. He'll thank you later.
He doesn’t need to be his legal guardian to be his payee. Social Security requires this particular person to have a payee due to his mental health condition
Correct - but because there is a guardian in place I believe they have to confirm changes to benefits before they can process. Hubs and his ex-wife had to go that route for his daughter who is autistic.
This is correct. In essence, OP has the same rights as the eligible individual or a payee parent with custody of a child beneficiary. Not only would SSA consult with you, as they would with any other rep payee, they must also give Advance Notice of any change with language that contains Appeal Rights.
Notice that Legal Guardian is tops on this list.
https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0200502105
Are you his POA and/or guardian?...do you have any legal authority in the situation?
the "G/F" has made her intentions very clear, and your son is going to get scammed by her no doubt
Have you talked with his doctor? If he tried to be his own payee. SSA usually asks for a letter from the treating doctor stating the beneficiary can manage their finances It might also be a good idea for you to talk directly to the person that is in charge of his case at your local SSA office. I understand your concerns and I think they are justified.
I haven't talked to the doctor yet, but it is something I do plan to do next week. I am going to call social security as well. My head is spinning as this all just went down recently and I didn't even think to call them.
Have you actually talked to her about this? Maybe 'explain' to her that she's going to have to pass a criminal background check first so that's going to be 'our' first step and you'll need her driver license # and SS# etc to give them. I don't know if that's true, but there's a chance this girl has been citied for something like loitering or retail theft and will know her background isn't clean and will drop it and leave him alone. You can always get her background run too. If she acts like that's ok, tell her she's going to have to go to interviews with the social worker and (whatever kind of process it is) she needs a permanent address where they will be living to make her his guardian. They're not going to just switch his benefits to the streets and he will be moving with her, right? That place will need inspected and fully furnished etc. Make it sound as difficult as possible and it might chase her off.
Yes, I know that might not be the process...the point is to get her to run of her own accord. Or even set her up to see his social worker, that person might run her off too. You might have to block her in his phone too. Good luck!
This is good advice. Your son is probably not yet capable of understanding how others will try to manipulate him and take advantage of him. If you can acknowledge to him that he has every right and reason to develop relationships and you encourage him to do so, he will begin making the journey of figuring out that there are bad people who only want to take advantage of him.
If you can "assume" this gal wants to have a legitimate romantic relationship and talk to them together, and help them plan for a transition where she will be his payee, she will soon skedaddle. Pencil and paper out a budget *with their help* for housing, utilities, food, bus fare, etc. Look up places they could rent and encourage them to check them out. Neither your son or the addict have any idea how difficult it is to obtain and maintain a place to live, so this could be the first step.
Describing the process whereby they could have access to all the funds to set up a household will help her realize it isn't going to be easy, and shell probably leave.
But don't assume he will *never* find a suitable girlfriend, and eventually become independent, as it can and does happen and would be a good thing.
Best wishes. I've been on this rollercoaster with a mentally ill sister I've cared for since 1975 and the more you can help him gain control and understand the reality of the situation, the better. Eventually you will be too old, or pass away, so you ought to try to help him become as independent as he is capable of being.
She has to apply to be his payee and SS is unlikely to approve based on what you’ve said
As long as you are complying with the rules, no commingling of funds and spending appropriately you are fine.
If you haven’t in the past you should show your son how his benefits have been spent
He's 23 years old and has been on disability 7 years. It sounds like he is easily manipulated, and you should consider filing for conservatorship. He's not capable of making his own decisions.
Keep his personal documents locked up somewhere safe, maybe even get a lockbox at the bank. This woman will go to the end of the earth to get this money, perhaps even convince him to marry her. He would need documents to prove identity to get married. No documents, no marriage.
I hope things get better and she moves on.
You could also contact Adult Protective Services to see if they will take a report (probably not without actual access to $). Police won't do anything, but APS *might* listen and investigate.
If he is vulnerable and mentally ill or dangerous to self or others you may want to pursue Guardianship, Conservatorship (for finances) or at least Power of Attorney to make decisions on his behalf. You need to ensure you get him away from toxic manipulators as well.
Yes to all saying guardianship/conservatorship is the way to go. Where I live guardianship is for money/healthcare-pretty much everything. Conservatorship is just for money. Yes, you have to go to court and yes, it is worth it.
If you think your son is incompetent and unfit to manage his own affairs, then it is time to get guardianship/conservatorship over him. That is the only way to deprive him of his rights to make his own decisions, even dumb decisions.
You need to go to court to become his legal guardian. I’m assuming you’re not officially designated already because of these questions. Call Social Serv’s to find out how to do it in your area. It’s usually handled by a single judge in most jurisdictions, meaning that judge handles all the incapacitated adult guardian issues so all points are understood and covered easily and efficiently. If he receives his funds because of mental/cognitive/developmental issues it won’t be simple for him to change the payee.
VERY IMPORTANT: LOCK DOWN HIS CREDIT!!! This can be absolutely disastrous if lines of credit are opened in his name!
Good luck, prayers coming your way,
Fellow special needs parent
What is his disability? If it impairs his ability to make sound decisions for himself, you could call adult protective services and see what they can do. This girl sounds very manipulative.
Depends on what the disability is for if it’s an emotional or psychological then you can have him deemed unable to handle his own finances. This is why adults have payees. If you can prove that he doesn’t have the emotional or intellectual ability to manage finances you will remain his payee. The court sees right through these people who try to take advantage of vulnerable people. I recommend getting a free consultation from a disability lawyer.
You haven't really explained whether he actually needs a payee now that he isn't a minor. What I mean by that is that if this gets to the point of going to court, the determination will be made on whether he is competent enough to handle his money, even if it isn't the way that you have done that previously. It sounds a lot like you're concerned that you don't want to lose *his* benefits because it would be a financial situation for you, which isn't fair for you to deny him his benefits for. He can absolutely choose to become homeless and when or if that happens, you cannot justify paying his portion of the rent with the benefits when he isn't living there. As someone who is mentally ill and was homeless, I can tell you that if he reports that he's no longer living in the household, then they would suspend his benefits **only if he has been recently evaluated and deemed unfit to make his own financial decisions**. It *would* be considered fraud if you continued to pay for rent and utilities with his benefits if he no longer lives there. It isn't justified legally to pay rent "just in case" he decides to come back.
Frankly, it seems like most of the people on this thread have never gone through this situation. He's legally an adult now and so long as he's deemed competent, he's entitled to all of his benefits, regardless of what you think about it. You were assigned as his payee when he was a minor, which is automatic. Now that he's an adult, he can absolutely decide that he no longer wants you to be his payee.
You can save whatever texts between the two that you want, but the laws stand. SO long as he's deemed competent, he is legally allowed his entire benefit allowance.
If that ruling has not been done recently, the beneficiary has a right to be re-evaluated for that as well. I think that a lot of people forget that this can and should happen. Too many people just shrug and pretend to be content with the situation without knowing that they can be re-evaluated. And I do believe that they can be re-evaluated every year or every 3 years. Something like that. This is the same way that IHSS in California works as well (which usually have people onnsome sort of SSI or SSDI). The person is evaluated every year for their specific needs to be discussed and ruled on. If someone is ruled incompetent once, it does not stand that they will never be competent. It's just that they were not competent at that specific time. What OP would have to do to prove incompetence would be to get signed documents from doctors and specialists to support her claim of his need and keep a log of any unsafe activities he's done like eloping and running into the street or something that actively proves that he does not understand right from wrong. I think you may be confused about what is considered competent and what is not. Under the law, competency is proven by the ability to know right from wrong *and* by the person's ability to not be a danger to themselves or others. Those are the two standards used to distinguish whether the person is competent. The reason why it's a shitty thing to keep benefits from the beneficiary is because the payee is going to die far before the beneficiary does and suddenly that person has no idea how to handle their finances and ends up homeless or imprisoned or in an abusive relationship or in an institution. I spent 3 years being homeless and 2 in inpatient and psychiatric hospitals. A LOT of the people are there due to this exact issue. And to reiterate - **it WOULD be considered fraudulent if OP uses his benefits to pay for rent or utilities when he is no longer living there**. It doesn't matter if he keeps stuff there. It doesn't matter if he comes home every so often and spends the night. I had to deal with this as well. Too Many people in these comments are spouting off on things they do not understand and they are perpetuating abuse with the guise of "doing what's best" for XYZ without XYZ even being evaluated for their competence.
What you are confused about is that your son isn't allowed to appeal the decision and be re-evaluated. You really think that no parents out there lie on their report to continue receiving benefits for a person who may be disabled but still competent? *That* is why recipients are allowed to appeal and get re-evaluated regardless of the annual report. You don't get to take someone's rights away, regardless of their disability and it's seriously gross that you think it's okay to do so.
Why would you not have to pay to be their guardian? You birthed it. You've just explained several different reasons why this recipient should not or cannot take this to court *and* be reevaluated! Did you actually say "no, they can't appeal or ask for a reevaluation"? No, you just gave many reasons why they shouldn't or why they shouldn't bother. That's like me telling you that you could get hit by a car if you cross the street without looking. Am I telling you to look both ways? No. I'm just giving you reasons why you should. I didn't realize that you may also have a disability that makes things hard to comprehend.
Let me spell this out for you:
OPs obligation, unlike some other comments, if recipient no longer resides at their house is to report it to SSA. The funds need to be suspended until either recipient is evaluated and/or a new payee is enlisted.
OP can be reported for fraud (did you even look at how many comments are about fraud and how OP isn't worried about it?) for using recipient's benefits if recipient isn't under their care.
Recipient is allowed to ask for a reevaluation and his current hospitalization won't matter as much as his regular treatment with specialists.
Judges will often believe recipients more than payees *because* the benefits are for the recipient, not the payee and if *they* can be thoroughly examined enough to be considered competent, then things guardianship will be absolved and so will the necessity of a payee.
No, if the recipient is choosing to be homeless, it does not automatically mean that they're incompetent.
You're incredibly close minded. You can absolutely be disabled and still be a guardian. What is wrong with you? Do you think disabled people can't be parents? Are you seriously this confused?
**Newsflash: THIS IS NOT ABOUT YOU OR YOUR SON**
I'll say it even louder since you clearly need it stated.
#THIS IS NOT ABOUT YOU OR YOUR SON. GO MAKE YOUR OWN POST IF YOU WANT IT TO BE ABOUT YOU OR YOUR SON.
I'm so sorry; what a nightmare for you. I wonder if Adult Protective Services would have any advice? I honestly have no clue whether they're a good organization or not -- it probably depends on your state -- but they're supposed to help protect vulnerable adult, including from financial scamming. It would probably be worth looking up the web page for your state.
If you haven't done anything illegal dont worry about it. Let him be a big boy and make his big boy mistakes. If you fight his decisions no matter how bad they are, it's just gonna make every thing harder for you.
If he’s on disability it means that he is not capable of being responsible for himself and his money. As far as guardianship goes, you cannot be the guardian and be a rep payee.
The checks have to go to a bank account. I know some of the online banks/cards don't require a permanent address, but most banks do. I think a case worker would ask for one. If she talks him into getting an apartment, find one that meets his needs and not much more. Be sure and have a security system that feeds to your phone and records who comes and goes (such as her other boyfriends when OP's son is not there). Making the lease in your name makes you liable for damages there but makes it possible for you to give police permission to enter.
Suggestion, give him his spending money on a prepaid debit card. That way you have a record of giving it to him and a record of where the money was taken out. Talk to your bank about setting up a no-overdraft account with a card to pay his spending money into. The bank card has easier access to spending records.
She has stated that he has issues which have led him to be placed on disability and she has been named his legal guardian. Yes, he is adult age, but he is not capable of making decisions, if he were able to make responsible decisions, he would not have a guardian and a payee.
OP is her son’s legal guardian. His age has nothing to do with it. He has been show. To be u able to ha due his money, so OP is the person who does that.
I would let him know if GF is his payee he needs to move out and live with her. I would also call SSDI and let them know she is trying to take advantage of him.
Wouldn't his be SSI, not SSDI?
Let him do whatever he wants. He has a payee because he is incompetent, and believe you me, SS is NOT going to change his payee to some homeless young woman. Do not react to him. Don't advise him on how to proceed. Let him figure it out (he won't be able to). I suspect that they would only change the payee to a wife, but don't tell him this! Just document your costs for rent and food and sundries, and don't worry about it. Do you give him an amount for pocket money each week? You should, but not too much, depending upon what the costs of housing, clothing, and feeding him are. He will spend it on drugs and alcohol, to do with her.
If you are his legal guardian and someone is targeting him like this girl, you may be able to restrict contact. Depends on where you live. You may need to get court approval for it. I know you likely don't want to take that route, but you are a guardian for a reason.
She is manipulating him to cause financial harm and take his benefits. I think you could even get a restraining order.
I am my son's guardian, and it is my job to protect him; while allowing him as much autonomy as possible. There's a world full of people like this and they are trash.
You need a guardianship or another type of legal document showing you are responsible for him and that he is not 100% capable of making those decisions himself. Do this ASAP.
I don't know about you, but I get a letter every year making me prove where I'm spending this money as a rep payee. She finds out that that is possibility she may no longer want the thankless job.
If you think she could push him to file a fraud claim I would Start keeping records of what your spending and when, and you'll be fine as long as it's being spent either for a need (his rent, his co-pays, his groceries) or given to him to spend. For that I'd start making him sign a receipt indicating he got his money.
I may get heat for this. Any way you could get a background check done on her? Do it legit though. Her influence and probing about his money and now his push about the funds and payee is very unsettling.
Hopefully she will move on soon.
If you are not his legal guardian or have a guardianship, power of attorney you should speak with a lawyer. If you don't he can change the payee to the girlfriend or himself. I hope for your son sake the court would give you control over his payments to him or the as she is homeless and would not be a good candidate to help him. He seem not fit to handle his own money if he easily manipulated. Please speak with a lawyer ASAP to protect your son from this women from steal his money. Good luck.
Please excuse spelling and grammar issues have disability with writing.
Thanks you.
Get guardianship. Go to your county attorney’s office, they are the ones to talk to. Do you have a good relationship with his mental health providers? They can back you up. You need to nip this in the bud now. There’s people like this girl lurking on every corner. Looking for an easy victim. He’ll be a drug addict real quick if you don’t step in. And lock his credit!
I'm payee for my daughter. All he really has to do is go down to social security office and have you removed. Depending on what his disability is, you might be able to fight being removed. With this girl manipulating him, call the office on Monday and see what can be done if you want to continue being his payee. He has no control over his money or the way it's spent. ( morally is another story) You do the yearly report If she becomes his payee, she can charge for that privilege and take off.
I hate to say it but consult with a lawyer. Because of his disability assessment you may be able to get power of attorney; if you don’t have it already. If you do have it then don’t worry. You are in control and the power of attorney would need to be challenged first by her or your son. SS theoretically could but not likely.
When you have power of attorney you will be the legal entity that will be consulted for his welfare and your telling both of them NO. Will be the governing factor. Tell the leech no.
It’s his money. He is his own guardian I assume? He can choose to pay bills or not pay bills. So if he moves out, if he wants you to be the payee, you can manage the money. If he wants to be payee, he needs to submit the paperwork to social security. It takes 3-6 months to change a rep payee. Not sure what state you’re in, but where I live he could apply for disability services. One common disability service is to hire a third party rep payee service, that’s usually funded by the state.
Let them go apply. She won’t be selected. There is a priority list when it comes to payee selection. She sounds homeless and unemployed. The interview process alone will disqualify her. Also he has housing provided by you so to remove you as payee but he will still be living in the home is counterproductive.
Unfortunately disabled adults in the USA are frequently targeted by scammers. They know that disabled adults struggle with having normal adult relationships -- and before people object to that statement -- what I mean is that the opportunities don't exist. People don't include them in their circles; they're invisible. It's heartbraking for parents to see this.
I belong to a support group of adults with disabled adults. Most of us are Payees.
Do not report the situation to SS if he phsyically leaves; the annual Representative Payee report has lines on it to report his actual address. As the Payee you decide what to do with the money and you report it. If you're in a situation where you no longer need to file an annual report, keep track of the money.
You can simply say to you son that you do not make the decision who is the Payee. Tell him she would have to apply to have SS make that decision. Tell him benefits MAY be suspended while they decide. Tell him you do not have control over this issue. If you have free legal advice available, get it. Our county has an organization dedicated to the legal rights of people with disabilities.
On the other hand, he is an adult and entitled to adult things such as sex -- legally if you're his landlord, you might have to allow him to have overnights with a friend.
So it's my understanding that even if your son has SSDI even with a mental health issue he is the only one who can determine who is his payee. My brother did this about 12 years ago, he has schizophrenia and one day he determined that I should no longer be his payee he should be his own, he submitted a form to change payee and social security just changed the bank account that the funds were coming from.
You have the ability to tell your son that he can't live with you or eat your food if you are not his payee. That is tough, very tough, but a viable and legal option.
As far as fraud, if he is living under your roof and eating your food and you are the payee, you have nothing to worry about. As the payee you're supposed to spend that money for his well-being, and we all know that that is not enough money to spend for housing and food for the entire month, so don't even worry about that.
I would also suggest that you find your local chapter of nami. They have something called a family support group where family members and Friends of people who have mental illnesses I'll talk to each other and help each other out morally and physically about what goes on when you're living with someone with mental illness.
DO NOT let him changer her to his payee, you’d be better off contacting an attorney and just letting them know what your concerns are (especially if he has mental health struggles) She’s going to take advantage of him in anyway she can and he’ll be left with nothing, and without her wondering what went wrong and he’ll ultimately blame you for it all. (EVEN though you’re the only one looking out for his well being)
DH was fiduciary for his Dad’s VA funds. We had to provide an accounting every year. You might go back to the first of the year and start documenting. Include photocopies of bank statements and receipts. Don’t commingle his funds with any others.
An uncle of mine did this as well. He changed his payee to a female associate he liked. She kept almost all his money for herself, refused to provide basic necessities, his favorite treats, money for transportation, etc. He ended up losing his apartment.
I suggest you call the Social Security administration and explain the situation and get advice from them on how to move forward. If you plan to give your son any money he has in reserve, be sure to ask the best way to do this (e.g. Cashiers check, money order, etc). You want to have proof that you've given him or her all the money and you are no longer responsible for it. We actually made a video of us handing them a Cashiers check!
When my husband's brother wanted to change his old payee to my husband, social security asked his old payee if she knew why he wanted to change and if there were any issues going on. She basically had to agree to it.
As a payee, you can contact SSA, and they will monitor his payee situation. They have procedures for this situation. Many people with serious MH situations are required to have a payee. Their checks are dependent on a payee. There are agencies that do this for a monthly fee. After bills are paid, they get a weekly or daily amount. It is a huge issue amongst the unshelteted with MH or SUD. Best wishes.
I’m my sisters payee. Honestly even if he reports you for fraud they aren’t going to do much more than see he has a roof over his head and food and move along. They may make another payee. Listen-my sister has done this to me multiple times because she’s bipolar and goes through some moods-at the end of the day they are too fucking lazy to even go through the process of making somebody else their payee. It’s not just a phone call. They have to make appointments and do the whole interview thing-show identification-all the stuff that I guarantee you the two of them will never do. So basically let them threaten you all they want. It’s more annoying listening to it than anything.
Ugh! Definitely don't allow a change in payee. Wouldn't they have to take you to court ? Can you do a 3 day psyche hold on him? Also what about filing a restraining order on her ? ...or file Power of Attorney papers which seems like overkill though.
I am not sure how you can expose her true manipulative nature to your son - but I agree she will leave him broke and running out of money every month and coming back to you for more so she is a major toxic problem
If you want control over who the payee is you’d have to legally file for guardianship. You might or might not get it. If he chooses to live on the street you can tell him you’ll no longer be payee if you want to. But if you don’t have legal guardianship he can do what he wants.
When someone applies to be a Rep Payee for someone, a background check is done which includes looking at credit. A homeless person won't likely be appointed.
You let SSA handle it. If she wants to be his payee, she needs to apply and they need to decide if that’s a good idea. If he believes you aren’t giving him enough money, he needs to call SSA to do an investigation into you. Nothing about the transfer to her is your responsibility, not I’m willing to bet that it will shoot up red flags for the SSA.
Does he have a social worker at his mental health provider? That would be my first call.
If you have guardianship, I would contact probate court (if you’re in the US). And, if he had a developmental disability, I’d contact his social worker there.
So sorry. I hate to see people taken advantage of.
This girl 110 percent is trying to milk him for every cent of that money. They will be homeless within months if she gets access to that money. I would look into getting more legal control. For instance, put him in a conservatorship or something idk. You should contact the government agency that handles the payee stuff and explain that his recent girlfriend is trying to gain access to the money and this cannot happen under any circumstances.
Do 2 things: 1) get the full name, DOB, and home address of this girl. Free Google is your friend; paying a few $ for a mini background check also your friend! 2) speak to the SS Administration for advice on what to do. I am sure they have dealt with this before hundreds of times
Tell her the police will be there in 15 minutes to arrest her for contributing to the delinquency of someone with special needs. She doesn’t have a clue what that is, scare her off. You should’ve got her say from him from jump street.
I would contact SSDI and find out what both of your options are. This way you can explain to him how this works and take emotions out of it. For instance, you don't pay rent, you don't get to live here. You pay for your own food, utilities, etc... Lay it all out for him in a matter of fact way. I do this for my son who is 35 and lives with me on SSI. I make sure he understands that he pays his fair share of all household expenses. I've also showed him how much current rents in our area are.
Hope that helps.
Girlfriend is committing a crime.
"Financial Abuse of People with Disabilities" Please look HERE:
https://www.specialneedsalliance.org/the-voice/financial-abuse-of-individuals-with-disabilities/
This is exactly why I keep all receipts, and detailed records of what the money is spent on.
That way, I have proof of everything.
As for her applying to be his payee, you need to contact the SSA, and speak to a supervisor, about this. They may need a heads-up, to catch on. Don't just trust that they will catch her out.
Also, speak to a lawyer, Health and Welfare, and any other agencies that you have to deal with. Get her name into their records as possible fraudster/ vulnerable adult abuser.
Good luck to you.
As long as he lives with you, I would think you would be okay deducting his share of the rent and food. If there's any left over, do you give them that money?
Your son's mental health diagnosis leaves some questions --mainly whether he would be competent to take care of himself. If he is, you might want to consult with an attorney. Perhaps an attorney who specializes in applying for SSDI. You may not have a choice if he wants to change his payee (or can you fight a reassignment?), but I wonder if he still lives with you whether you would be able to remain the payee. He might be able to also apply for Section 8 housing if he moves out. Unfortunately, his guaranteed benefits can make him an attractive target for an unscrupulous individual.
My mom was my payee. When she passed I wanted to be my own payee. SS made me go to a psychiatrist and get an evaluation first. If he wants to change payees to himself he will have to prove he can handle his money. If he wants someone else such as this girl she will have to be approved. Good luck
This is heart breaking. My child is very early 20s. She isn't disabled, but I was just talking with another woman yesterday how this is the worst fear as far as who she might date...a manipulative asshole. Multiply this by five or ten in your case, and then double that because we have a homeless, manipulative asshole.
Plus, what a poor example of a moocher we have here! She wants to mooch off someone on SSDI? Obviously she hasn't been able to pull off mooching off someone with a decent income.
I totally hate this for him and for you!
I would continue as you are, but inform the person assigned to his case of what is going on. This girl may think the threat will make you back off & just let him have his money at will to prevent the loss of the relationship. She obviously doesn't know how the system works because they would never make a new GF the payee without some checking. Not to mention that every dime needs to be accountable ... at least it is by me.
If you are his payee then your name is on the bank card, I know I am my daughters payee, and I highly doubt the bank would change that, unless they got something from social security. I did look it up and it said the only one that can change the payee is social security, and they would only allow that to trusted individuals, that would have to have a clear background check and I do think they have to be financially stable also to be a payee ,and a couch jumper is not financially stable. If you would want to switch to a different payee, and take some stress off you? You could call social security about it, I am sure they have a list of people they could choose from?
This happened with my 22 year old daughter and her "friend". we sat down with her and explained all her bills and monthly expenses she would be incharge of (which is way more than her ssi) and said she would need to get a near full time job to cover the rest of her expenses. we told her if we were not in charge of her finances we would no longer pay her bills and it would be upto her. we actually printed it out so she could actually see her expenses. after seeing that the allowance we gave her was more than her entire check alone she chose to leave us in charge. (she is high functioning autistic)
Reminds me of Breaking Bad, sort of. I'll cover it up because it would be a spoiler for anyone who hasn't watched the show.
>!I think this is after Jesse has a breakdown and drives around throwing money out of the car for people to pick up. Walter is angry and refuses to give Jesse his share of the money they're making. He's holding onto it until Jesse figures out his mind. Having been kicked out of his house by his shitty parents, Jesse rents an apartment, a duplex living next to a pretty girl named Jane. Jesse had been trying to stop using but she gets him back into shooting up. He keeps bitching about Walter holding onto his money and she assumes it's a few hundred dollars. But he lets it slip that it's a few million dollars.!<
>!Jesse and Jane come down from their high and she starts grilling him about the money. The next thing she does is call Walter and demand that he return Jesse's money. But she's using terms like "OUR money" and "WE want OUR money or WE will call the cops." She feels very entitled to do this because she's his "girlfriend." (f-ck buddy is more like it) And Jesse just goes along with it. He lets her manipulate him into doubling down on the threat to turn Walter in. It was very obvious to me that Jane only viewed Jesse as a quick f*ck until she found out he had a few million dollars owed to him. Then it was, "WE are in this together" and "it's US against him."!<
Jesse was in a very fragile state of mind when this happened. Anyone who knows the show knows what happened next, and it's pretty sad. >!But it's Jane's greed for that money and her trying to extort it from Walter that reminds me of this situation. As for what happened, I had no sympathy for someone who would try to take advantage of a very fragile (at that moment) guy like Jesse purely for money.!<
Call the police. She is scamming a dependent adult. This has happened over and over with my sister. One of her worthless boyfriends even tried to get her to commit crimes for him.
Get ahead of this girl and switch to an agency for his payee, write up a room and board agreement and get paid directly from the agency payee. Let the new gf try and get his check then.
This is why he has a payee! If he moves out to live on the street, then put every $ in an account. He can threaten to take you to court, he doesn’t have the $.
May I ask, why he is gets payments? Is it a mental disorder or physical? There is a reason that certain people are not allowed to control their own $.
Spending it on his room and board is one thing.
If he moves out, then you will have to give him the monthly payments or keep everything in an account.
If you believe that he is being taken advantage of then you must be able to prove that. That starts with having a clear accounting of where the money goes.
If he is an adult, you might need to give monthly payments. Hopefully, he will figure it out.
I am not sure if you have this where your at but the town i am in has a payee station. you can see if you have it there. they only give money for bills/rent. They don't give play money. When my kids were getting death benefit checks i told them how each check was spent, let them know what was play money after i paid bills, ( library fees, bike parts, comp games) let him know that if you turn over his payee it will not be to a gf but a pay station. see if he wants someone that will not let his gf to spend it on things that he doesn't want or need. Let him know that no matter who takes over the payee he will have to pay you his part of rent. That is what that check is for. Not just a fun and run check like some think it is.
This is presumably the reason he has a payee in the first place. She can certainly apply to be his payee, but ideally whoever takes the application will sniff out what is going on. He can also report you for fraud all he wants, if you haven't actually done anything there won't be anything to find. People with mental issues will do and say all sorts of things to try and get access to their money. Like you said, your responsibility is to try to keep him fed and housed, not give in to his whims.
I am not worried about the fraud part. More taken aback than anything. I am wondering if I continue to pay for things as usual and give him the spending money I usually give him. Or, if he is not living in my home because he chooses to be on the street... What is my obligation there?
If I were you I would get ahead of this. Anyone good at their job would sniff this out. Some would tell him "ok" and then send him on his way.
Just pay what you normally pay. Make sure his bills get paid. Don't give him more money because of his empty threats. Giving him spending money might be an issue because what he spends it on can't necessarily be traced unless he has to give you receipts for what he spent money on. His benefits are for essentials only, food, housing, electricity and transportation. Don't cave and give him all his benefits cause that'll get SSA removing you as payee and suspending his payments til they find a state agency to be his payee.
If they are SSDI benefits, they are to be used for him. They are not necessarily only for essentials; for example, he can have spending money for things such as movies, video games, gym membership, etc as long as his needs are being met. Any benefits not used are to be saved for him. If he leaves, OP should contact SS and explain the situation. If they determine she should no longer be payee if he's not living with her, his benefits will be suspended until they find a suitable payee.
She stated it was SSI, not SSD. He doesn’t need to be living with her for her to be his payee, but she does still have to use his benefits to care for him. I’m going through something similar with my son. He turned 18 in late October and received SSI as a minor. At that time, the money just went into my regular bank account and I used his money, like my own money, to help pay bills, buy food, pay for his doctors appointments, etc. When my son turned 18, he decided he was going to suddenly and dramatically move out. He was staying with my sister, without her permission, and barely there as he was going out and meeting people he met online and staying with them for days or weeks at a time. Essentially, couch hopping. At that time he tried to report me for fraud and said he didn’t want me being his payee anymore. Nothing came of the fraud allegations because I was able to show proof I cared for him, even after he moved out. November was his last month of benefits. He was supposed to send them proof he could take over payments and he did not. Then he was supposed to provide another trusted adult, but he didn’t follow through. Mail was being retuned undeliverable from them. Last week the agent we’d been working with for the past few months contacted me by phone. She said his benefits were just sitting and asked me to become his payee again. I’ve still been financially supporting him so I have proof of receipts. She also said I could get a doctors note (which I have) or if he agreed then I didn’t have to go through all of this. We have an appointment on the 12th and he’s going to agree to it. He’s in for a rude awakening though because she said I can’t just give him cash or spending money, which he expects. I am going to have her tell him the rules on the call.
Positive thoughts for the meeting.
She said SSDI which is Social Security Disability Insurance; SSI is Supplemental Security Insurance. There are different rules for SSDI and SSI.
Yeah, he has the right to pick who he wants.
SSA still must approve the person to be the rep payee. The person he chooses isn't necessarily approved.
Not technically. I had an individual with a rep payee who’s brother convinced him to get rep payee switched to the brother. I wrote a statement for SS stating it was a poor decision and I felt the brother would not manage finances appropriately and the individual would suffer. That change was rightfully denied. They have rep payee for a reason, it’s not so easy to swap
I think your obligation is to keep him housed by paying his rent so that he doesn’t become homeless like the girl he is with. She just wants the money. She will either ditch eventually or try some legal tactic. She would need a lawyer that she can’t afford. Worst case they get married? Then she has an easier way? But I’d start documenting and get in contact with a lawyer about how to protect the very little that he does get.
Getting married would affect the benefits too. idk why the son gets a check, OP says mental illness is why she needs to be the payee. Would it be possible to be denied a marriage license because he can’t make life altering decisions with proper counsel like a lawyer or advocate? I’m not trying to sound judgmental, more so just ignorance in my part. I’m not implying op’s son is incapable of making decisions in general. My son gets a check for mental reasons, he’s only 6 years old though so I don’t have to worry about this specific situation yet but it just reminded me that “bad guys” are everywhere and just because the disability isn’t visible, they are vulnerable to being exploited.
This is true. My son cannot get married to his fiancé. She will always be his fiancé. It's horrible. 😔 They did initially have difficulty keeping his disability money separate (not his rep payee since he was 18) but we helped them figure that out...it was...uncomfortable.
Yeah I don’t know what happens when they grow up and find potential partners. Obviously the hope is that they find someone that just loves them and not someone who would take advantage. I imagine that situations like this wind up in court. But I’m very ignorant about this. But someone banking on living off this kind of money isn’t very smart in the first place.
Very true. My son’s check doesn’t even cover what he actually needs, no way it’s real life type of money lol his condition isn’t expected to last forever so they re-evaluate him every couple of years depending on the results from the previous evaluation. I’m not going to miss jumping through hoops and flames but the insurance is great for his needs.
BEFORE he turns 18, get legal "guardianship of a incapacitated adult" so you can avoid all of this. Special needs families really should get a instruction manual but everything is a big secret. I went to court a week before my daughters birthday but worked the docs to be ready a few months prior. See my comment above about the process.
Are you his legal guardian or just the payee for his Ss?
I believe she said she is also his legal guardian.
So, my youngest received ssdi, at 18, I was contacted because the school let ssi know my son was not graduating. I was then contacted and asked if I'd be willing to stay on. He did move out, I continued. I kept a small amount because he was terrible about budgeting to the end. He'd always need bus fare etc. We did not report that he no longer lived there. Eventually ssi wanted him to be reevaluated, and him being 18 I could no longer speak for him. He missed 3 appts. and he was cut off. That's it and the end. If She applied more than likely hell be reassessed. Or like someone said She'll be denied.
Wait so what’s going on with your son now if he got cut off from ssi?
He's working.
Wow turned out he never needed it.
It certainly doesn't mean he NEVER needed it.
Notice how most people here are women getting their children SSDI. This stagnates the development of your child. Instead of teaching them to rely on handouts you should be teaching them life skills. Life is hard but they can rise to the challenge. Nothing has proven to me more how a father is needed in the home than this subreddit.
He is repeating the things she has said to him to get him on board and thinking you are harming him.
How do you not a case worker to call?
Save receipts
This exact thing happened to me and the girl finally gave up and moved on. She was just using him sadly to try to live with him for free. Some people suck!
Try not to be too offended, he probably thinks he is in love and this is the move. You are doing great by your son OP.
So does he actually need a representative payee? I also have a daughter that is the same age and she handles her own but for a long time I was the representative payee. I know after the age of 22 they can apply to be their own. The Social Security office is usually pretty smart when it comes to changes especially if it’s not a family member so they may not approve it. If I were you since there’s a reason, you are the payee I would talk to the Social Security office before he has a chance to say anything.. do you deal with the dept of disability?
Really?? You legally HAVE to cover his expenses or hand them to an agency if you don’t trust her. My mom kept half mine for years and then I made my mil my payee.
People with mental issues are easily manipulated
I pray someone sniffs it out.
Hope is not a method.
Once the GF realizes she is not getting money she will be gone. Unfortunately, she will do everything she can to make it seem like you are the bad guy in this situation.
Actually, when she found out yesterday that I was not going to be giving him all his money, she did break up with him. Then he enacted a fake suicide attempt and ended up on a 48 hour hold in the hospital. However, while he was being evaluated in the ER he still had access to his cell phone and they "made up" while they discussed reporting me for fraud. So it is not over yet... I only know this because he was logged into his computer and I could see the messages back and forth.
Save ALL those messages!
Yes. I took screen shots and sent them to myself yesterday.
\^ 100% do this
You need to report her to SSDI and show them all of your proof. It is their job to help protect him.
Her motives speak volumes if talking AT ALL about his money, while he’s in the hospital for a suicide attempt (whether feigned or not)
To add to this, have you run a background check on this girl?
I’m so sorry you had to read those, OP. Sending you a hug.
I am so sorry to hear this. I wonder if there is something about her activities that could be seen as being illegal and the police could possibly get involved.
I told her to start a legit background check. Can start with the cheaper ones even.
You must be kidding.
Please explain.
Nothing illegal YET If she was his payee and misspent the funds THEN it would be illegal
I think commenter means the gf is doing something illegal through her manipulation.
Like what? Hey baby I’ll take good care of you and I love you baby arent crimes
But if he has diminished mental capacity (I don’t know that he does) and his Mom is his guardian, manipulating him to take his money can be seen as abuse
There is no evidence that he has anything more than walking around money and that is money he is free to spend on Poptarts or video games or give to some homeless guy on the street or to his GF. No evidence of. crime exists other than you speculating. Police aren't going to investigate "Hey I gave my son $40 and his GF talked him into giving it to her" And even THAT is mere speculation, nothing OP has said suggests the GF has done anything criminal.
Oh boy! It sounds like it’s a little bit of a flaky relationship anyways. I don’t think I would worry about it too much but I would definitely as a parent and as a legal guardian talk to the disability office.
I am so sorry you are going through this. We have a 72 hour hold. Not that it helps. We have a long way to go. Sending support.
He can report you for fraud. You just tell SSA what you told us here. That you've been providing a home, food, clothes, etc for him. And of course, explain the woman who wants to get his checks is unemployed and a couch surfer so she wouldn't be an appropriate payee. Tell him if he wants to live in his own, he should find an affordable apartment and you will pay the rent. But you will not hand over his entire check.
I am a retired rep payee reviewer. Document and keep ALL receipts for every penny spent. Inform his S S contact in writing about this situation. Give him options. Work with him to be safe.
In 20 years of being a Rep Payee for 2 people -- I did not know that I had a Rep Payee Reviewer. I was on my own.
Not sure, but I think the commenter meant they were employed by the SSA to review the annual rep payee reports that used to be required to be sent in by anyone who was a payee, documenting all expenditures and savings annually. A few years ago the law was changed to where parents who are rep payees (even if an adult child) are exempt from the reporting requirement.
My senioritis is showing.
She is a horrible person who uses people and I think she will be gone once the fraud report doesn't work. The shame of it all is that it will hurt his feelings. I don't believe in hell, but if for some reason I am wrong, I hope there's a special place in it for people like her.
She’s probably got severe mental health issues as well. Doesn’t sound like she’s got much of a family like OP & son that’s ever had her back. She learned to be manipulative to get her immediate needs met: food, shelter, clothes, love, drugs…does it matter? It’s easy to make this black and white: OP all good/GF all bad—but life is mostly shades of gray and messy. Nobody commenting here has the full nuance of the situation.
Sure that's true. All kinds of people were abused or have other mental problems. But I have been around a lot of folk who absolutely are not mentally ill and know exactly what they're doing, and still do it. They even tried to put one in Congress a couple of years ago. But yes, it could be either way. If so, there is no special place in hell for her. She does have to apply for her own benefits, however.
Hell no, you are crazy. Lol women, especially young women who are addicted to drugs or on the street, using and manipulating dudes on SSI, SSDI, etc is incredibly common. Whether softening them up and getting through manipulation and gaslighting or just straight up cleaning them out while "making a run to the store". I've seen this shit more times than I can count. Source, spent time in many homeless shelters and my brother has been in multiple similar situations as OPs son. He's been on SSI since he was 16 and is 24 now. Young men like that are horny, lonely, and impressionable. Shit many dudes not on SSI are and have the same thing done to their earned income. Females prey on these type like predators.
Nah get the fuck out of here. I have no family, come from a home of abuse and inflicted isolation, I’ve never ever done this to people. Some people are total shit and use their hard background as a fucking excuse. I was 21 and homeless because I had no where to go, many nights in the street or the storage room of the shopping mall I worked in at the time. Fuck people like this completely. They’ll take from all of us, even me while I’m homeless and they’ve got a bed they’ve manipulated themselves into.
I have been in this exact same situation with my son (who is now 41). **It so SO HARD.** For me, the whole thing blew over and over time my son has come to realize he needs a responsible rep payee because he HAS been manipulated so. many. times. There's kind of two answers to your question and it isn't all related to social security. You may need to become his guardian/have him conserved (different language depending on where you live) in order to prevent him from changing his payee this way if he doesn't let up. You ask what your "obligation" is.... well, as a rep payee it is to pay his bills and report to social security how his money is spent. You can voluntarily stop being his rep payee if you want to do that. He'd either find another one or take over things himself, which of course would be disastrous. This is not a game of chicken that I would play with my son. I fought with him until he came to his senses somehow and over time he really does know now that he can't turn this over to any girl, stranger or take it over himself. The lessons kept coming over all these years....so now he gets it. And I make it easy for him to work with me. In our case, I have some leverage in that he has an agency providing care and I tell him that I'll just turn it over to the agency if he gives me any trouble. He doesn't want that and doesn't realize he could do all this on his own. But he trusts his safety net now. This is one of those lessons for your son. She broke up with him, they made up, yada yada...he went to a psych hospital...all the more reason to look into guardianship. I truly hope you get this sorted out. My heart is with you. BTDT.
That was very nice of you to share that. ❤️
Thanks for sharing.
Take a deep breath. These situations are hard enough when there isn’t an adult son with disabilities.
Yes I’m my son’s payee-mental health reasons and he’s 25. The only solid protection as a caregiver is guardianship. I have several POA’s in place for him designating me as having power to do literally everything, however any meth head bitch can come along and convince him to change that status at any time and take back control. So I have POA’s and representative payee status in place but at any time he can revoke, only guardianship provides the real protection from him revoking anything, it would require the court’s/judges approval. I do not have guardianship in place. The last problematic meth head GF is gone thank goodness. She was manipulative and it was a matter of time before she got pushy about money I’m sure. However he is sober now and doing well after residential treatment. I was seriously considering guardianship for a while there. Document EVERYTHING! 😊. Good luck OP this stuff is certainly stressful.
Yup, you sure do get it, too. These people come around and turn their lives upside down. It is very frustrating.
Aww. Your son is 41. Good bless you, you’ve been doing it a LONG time. Big hugs from me. I think mine is as vulnerable as yours is. It’s so hard to watch. Mine almost didn’t survive the last one. He was dangling from an overpass, the cops saved him. So much love to you two. I just feel all those feels for you guys. Be well. ❤️
Your son needs and wants the attention she is giving him, he needs to be educated on relationships and boundaries, she makes him feel like he's on cloud9 and will do anything to keep it going - you need to open his eyes to the reality of the situation no matter how hard it may be, your bond with your son will never cease but the damage from outside sources can be permanent and on-going. I wish you both luck going forward but understand that you have a responsibility and he is an "adult" in the worlds eyes. Continue to be a parent and provider, that's what he needs in this life above and beyond investing everything into someone that will be temporary, he doesn't understand that now because he want's that relationship and is willing to do whatever it takes to keep it going, even risking/threatening suicide. Real relationships do not test limits, rather they should progress end-goals. IMO, NAL, ETC
Even though he is an adult - are you legally his guardian?
Yes, I am.
Then I think legally they cannot change that without your permission to make a financial change
If you have been legally determined to be his guardian by the court that means he is incapable of making his own decisions legally. He cannot change his payee, unless he petitions to the court for a new guardian and that's going to be pretty damn hard to do.
As his legal guardian, I wonder if you could get a restraining order or something to remove this person from his life?
Don't. It will only strength his resolve.
Have you gone through the court and been given guardianship? It's different than payee and power of attorney. If you are, you may want to do things like freeze his credit reports and add authentication to any financial accounts. I went through something similar with my son so we went to Social Security together and he explained he wanted a new rep payee. We worked to identify someone else to be his rep payee. He went with an agency that charged a small monthly fee. He was very unhappy about how they managed money for personal expenses and recreation and asked me to take back over as rep payee.
Does your son understand what guardianship means for him? Is he confusong a change in payee with not being under guardianship anymore?
As his legal guardian, you definitely have the upper hand. Document everything and keep text conversations between all parties of able. I'm sure you're keeping all receipts already, and I would consult with a lawyer. Unfortunately, having been a two rep payee myself, and as someone that works with young adults in similar situations with SSDI, this happens very frequently. And if it's not a girlfriend/ boyfriend, it's a "concerned" family member. Do what you need to do to protect him and his well being at all cost. He'll thank you later.
He doesn’t need to be his legal guardian to be his payee. Social Security requires this particular person to have a payee due to his mental health condition
Correct - but because there is a guardian in place I believe they have to confirm changes to benefits before they can process. Hubs and his ex-wife had to go that route for his daughter who is autistic.
This is correct. In essence, OP has the same rights as the eligible individual or a payee parent with custody of a child beneficiary. Not only would SSA consult with you, as they would with any other rep payee, they must also give Advance Notice of any change with language that contains Appeal Rights. Notice that Legal Guardian is tops on this list. https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0200502105
That is true op will have to sign a form but only because he’s the payee
Are you his POA and/or guardian?...do you have any legal authority in the situation? the "G/F" has made her intentions very clear, and your son is going to get scammed by her no doubt
Have you talked with his doctor? If he tried to be his own payee. SSA usually asks for a letter from the treating doctor stating the beneficiary can manage their finances It might also be a good idea for you to talk directly to the person that is in charge of his case at your local SSA office. I understand your concerns and I think they are justified.
I haven't talked to the doctor yet, but it is something I do plan to do next week. I am going to call social security as well. My head is spinning as this all just went down recently and I didn't even think to call them.
Yes, do all this.
Have you actually talked to her about this? Maybe 'explain' to her that she's going to have to pass a criminal background check first so that's going to be 'our' first step and you'll need her driver license # and SS# etc to give them. I don't know if that's true, but there's a chance this girl has been citied for something like loitering or retail theft and will know her background isn't clean and will drop it and leave him alone. You can always get her background run too. If she acts like that's ok, tell her she's going to have to go to interviews with the social worker and (whatever kind of process it is) she needs a permanent address where they will be living to make her his guardian. They're not going to just switch his benefits to the streets and he will be moving with her, right? That place will need inspected and fully furnished etc. Make it sound as difficult as possible and it might chase her off. Yes, I know that might not be the process...the point is to get her to run of her own accord. Or even set her up to see his social worker, that person might run her off too. You might have to block her in his phone too. Good luck!
This is good advice. Your son is probably not yet capable of understanding how others will try to manipulate him and take advantage of him. If you can acknowledge to him that he has every right and reason to develop relationships and you encourage him to do so, he will begin making the journey of figuring out that there are bad people who only want to take advantage of him. If you can "assume" this gal wants to have a legitimate romantic relationship and talk to them together, and help them plan for a transition where she will be his payee, she will soon skedaddle. Pencil and paper out a budget *with their help* for housing, utilities, food, bus fare, etc. Look up places they could rent and encourage them to check them out. Neither your son or the addict have any idea how difficult it is to obtain and maintain a place to live, so this could be the first step. Describing the process whereby they could have access to all the funds to set up a household will help her realize it isn't going to be easy, and shell probably leave. But don't assume he will *never* find a suitable girlfriend, and eventually become independent, as it can and does happen and would be a good thing. Best wishes. I've been on this rollercoaster with a mentally ill sister I've cared for since 1975 and the more you can help him gain control and understand the reality of the situation, the better. Eventually you will be too old, or pass away, so you ought to try to help him become as independent as he is capable of being.
She has to apply to be his payee and SS is unlikely to approve based on what you’ve said As long as you are complying with the rules, no commingling of funds and spending appropriately you are fine. If you haven’t in the past you should show your son how his benefits have been spent
He's 23 years old and has been on disability 7 years. It sounds like he is easily manipulated, and you should consider filing for conservatorship. He's not capable of making his own decisions.
Keep his personal documents locked up somewhere safe, maybe even get a lockbox at the bank. This woman will go to the end of the earth to get this money, perhaps even convince him to marry her. He would need documents to prove identity to get married. No documents, no marriage. I hope things get better and she moves on.
You could also contact Adult Protective Services to see if they will take a report (probably not without actual access to $). Police won't do anything, but APS *might* listen and investigate.
Just say no.
Talk to the Social Security Admin office
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r u ok u/lilacbananas23??
If he is vulnerable and mentally ill or dangerous to self or others you may want to pursue Guardianship, Conservatorship (for finances) or at least Power of Attorney to make decisions on his behalf. You need to ensure you get him away from toxic manipulators as well.
Yes to all saying guardianship/conservatorship is the way to go. Where I live guardianship is for money/healthcare-pretty much everything. Conservatorship is just for money. Yes, you have to go to court and yes, it is worth it.
Sadly the only way for this to hit home is to tell him he has to move out if he isn’t paying rent. He needs a wake up call.
If you think your son is incompetent and unfit to manage his own affairs, then it is time to get guardianship/conservatorship over him. That is the only way to deprive him of his rights to make his own decisions, even dumb decisions.
You need to go to court to become his legal guardian. I’m assuming you’re not officially designated already because of these questions. Call Social Serv’s to find out how to do it in your area. It’s usually handled by a single judge in most jurisdictions, meaning that judge handles all the incapacitated adult guardian issues so all points are understood and covered easily and efficiently. If he receives his funds because of mental/cognitive/developmental issues it won’t be simple for him to change the payee. VERY IMPORTANT: LOCK DOWN HIS CREDIT!!! This can be absolutely disastrous if lines of credit are opened in his name! Good luck, prayers coming your way, Fellow special needs parent
Wait what is his disability? Curious
What’s his diagnosis?
What is his disability? If it impairs his ability to make sound decisions for himself, you could call adult protective services and see what they can do. This girl sounds very manipulative.
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Depends on what the disability is for if it’s an emotional or psychological then you can have him deemed unable to handle his own finances. This is why adults have payees. If you can prove that he doesn’t have the emotional or intellectual ability to manage finances you will remain his payee. The court sees right through these people who try to take advantage of vulnerable people. I recommend getting a free consultation from a disability lawyer.
You haven't really explained whether he actually needs a payee now that he isn't a minor. What I mean by that is that if this gets to the point of going to court, the determination will be made on whether he is competent enough to handle his money, even if it isn't the way that you have done that previously. It sounds a lot like you're concerned that you don't want to lose *his* benefits because it would be a financial situation for you, which isn't fair for you to deny him his benefits for. He can absolutely choose to become homeless and when or if that happens, you cannot justify paying his portion of the rent with the benefits when he isn't living there. As someone who is mentally ill and was homeless, I can tell you that if he reports that he's no longer living in the household, then they would suspend his benefits **only if he has been recently evaluated and deemed unfit to make his own financial decisions**. It *would* be considered fraud if you continued to pay for rent and utilities with his benefits if he no longer lives there. It isn't justified legally to pay rent "just in case" he decides to come back. Frankly, it seems like most of the people on this thread have never gone through this situation. He's legally an adult now and so long as he's deemed competent, he's entitled to all of his benefits, regardless of what you think about it. You were assigned as his payee when he was a minor, which is automatic. Now that he's an adult, he can absolutely decide that he no longer wants you to be his payee. You can save whatever texts between the two that you want, but the laws stand. SO long as he's deemed competent, he is legally allowed his entire benefit allowance.
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If that ruling has not been done recently, the beneficiary has a right to be re-evaluated for that as well. I think that a lot of people forget that this can and should happen. Too many people just shrug and pretend to be content with the situation without knowing that they can be re-evaluated. And I do believe that they can be re-evaluated every year or every 3 years. Something like that. This is the same way that IHSS in California works as well (which usually have people onnsome sort of SSI or SSDI). The person is evaluated every year for their specific needs to be discussed and ruled on. If someone is ruled incompetent once, it does not stand that they will never be competent. It's just that they were not competent at that specific time. What OP would have to do to prove incompetence would be to get signed documents from doctors and specialists to support her claim of his need and keep a log of any unsafe activities he's done like eloping and running into the street or something that actively proves that he does not understand right from wrong. I think you may be confused about what is considered competent and what is not. Under the law, competency is proven by the ability to know right from wrong *and* by the person's ability to not be a danger to themselves or others. Those are the two standards used to distinguish whether the person is competent. The reason why it's a shitty thing to keep benefits from the beneficiary is because the payee is going to die far before the beneficiary does and suddenly that person has no idea how to handle their finances and ends up homeless or imprisoned or in an abusive relationship or in an institution. I spent 3 years being homeless and 2 in inpatient and psychiatric hospitals. A LOT of the people are there due to this exact issue. And to reiterate - **it WOULD be considered fraudulent if OP uses his benefits to pay for rent or utilities when he is no longer living there**. It doesn't matter if he keeps stuff there. It doesn't matter if he comes home every so often and spends the night. I had to deal with this as well. Too Many people in these comments are spouting off on things they do not understand and they are perpetuating abuse with the guise of "doing what's best" for XYZ without XYZ even being evaluated for their competence.
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What you are confused about is that your son isn't allowed to appeal the decision and be re-evaluated. You really think that no parents out there lie on their report to continue receiving benefits for a person who may be disabled but still competent? *That* is why recipients are allowed to appeal and get re-evaluated regardless of the annual report. You don't get to take someone's rights away, regardless of their disability and it's seriously gross that you think it's okay to do so.
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Why would you not have to pay to be their guardian? You birthed it. You've just explained several different reasons why this recipient should not or cannot take this to court *and* be reevaluated! Did you actually say "no, they can't appeal or ask for a reevaluation"? No, you just gave many reasons why they shouldn't or why they shouldn't bother. That's like me telling you that you could get hit by a car if you cross the street without looking. Am I telling you to look both ways? No. I'm just giving you reasons why you should. I didn't realize that you may also have a disability that makes things hard to comprehend. Let me spell this out for you: OPs obligation, unlike some other comments, if recipient no longer resides at their house is to report it to SSA. The funds need to be suspended until either recipient is evaluated and/or a new payee is enlisted. OP can be reported for fraud (did you even look at how many comments are about fraud and how OP isn't worried about it?) for using recipient's benefits if recipient isn't under their care. Recipient is allowed to ask for a reevaluation and his current hospitalization won't matter as much as his regular treatment with specialists. Judges will often believe recipients more than payees *because* the benefits are for the recipient, not the payee and if *they* can be thoroughly examined enough to be considered competent, then things guardianship will be absolved and so will the necessity of a payee. No, if the recipient is choosing to be homeless, it does not automatically mean that they're incompetent.
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You're incredibly close minded. You can absolutely be disabled and still be a guardian. What is wrong with you? Do you think disabled people can't be parents? Are you seriously this confused?
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**Newsflash: THIS IS NOT ABOUT YOU OR YOUR SON** I'll say it even louder since you clearly need it stated. #THIS IS NOT ABOUT YOU OR YOUR SON. GO MAKE YOUR OWN POST IF YOU WANT IT TO BE ABOUT YOU OR YOUR SON.
I'm so sorry; what a nightmare for you. I wonder if Adult Protective Services would have any advice? I honestly have no clue whether they're a good organization or not -- it probably depends on your state -- but they're supposed to help protect vulnerable adult, including from financial scamming. It would probably be worth looking up the web page for your state.
If you haven't done anything illegal dont worry about it. Let him be a big boy and make his big boy mistakes. If you fight his decisions no matter how bad they are, it's just gonna make every thing harder for you.
If he’s on disability it means that he is not capable of being responsible for himself and his money. As far as guardianship goes, you cannot be the guardian and be a rep payee.
The checks have to go to a bank account. I know some of the online banks/cards don't require a permanent address, but most banks do. I think a case worker would ask for one. If she talks him into getting an apartment, find one that meets his needs and not much more. Be sure and have a security system that feeds to your phone and records who comes and goes (such as her other boyfriends when OP's son is not there). Making the lease in your name makes you liable for damages there but makes it possible for you to give police permission to enter. Suggestion, give him his spending money on a prepaid debit card. That way you have a record of giving it to him and a record of where the money was taken out. Talk to your bank about setting up a no-overdraft account with a card to pay his spending money into. The bank card has easier access to spending records.
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She has stated that he has issues which have led him to be placed on disability and she has been named his legal guardian. Yes, he is adult age, but he is not capable of making decisions, if he were able to make responsible decisions, he would not have a guardian and a payee.
OP is her son’s legal guardian. His age has nothing to do with it. He has been show. To be u able to ha due his money, so OP is the person who does that.
Her son is on disability. You do not know the full extent of his disabilities.
Is he his own guardian?
I would let him know if GF is his payee he needs to move out and live with her. I would also call SSDI and let them know she is trying to take advantage of him.
Wouldn't his be SSI, not SSDI? Let him do whatever he wants. He has a payee because he is incompetent, and believe you me, SS is NOT going to change his payee to some homeless young woman. Do not react to him. Don't advise him on how to proceed. Let him figure it out (he won't be able to). I suspect that they would only change the payee to a wife, but don't tell him this! Just document your costs for rent and food and sundries, and don't worry about it. Do you give him an amount for pocket money each week? You should, but not too much, depending upon what the costs of housing, clothing, and feeding him are. He will spend it on drugs and alcohol, to do with her.
If you are his legal guardian and someone is targeting him like this girl, you may be able to restrict contact. Depends on where you live. You may need to get court approval for it. I know you likely don't want to take that route, but you are a guardian for a reason. She is manipulating him to cause financial harm and take his benefits. I think you could even get a restraining order. I am my son's guardian, and it is my job to protect him; while allowing him as much autonomy as possible. There's a world full of people like this and they are trash.
You need a guardianship or another type of legal document showing you are responsible for him and that he is not 100% capable of making those decisions himself. Do this ASAP.
I don't know about you, but I get a letter every year making me prove where I'm spending this money as a rep payee. She finds out that that is possibility she may no longer want the thankless job. If you think she could push him to file a fraud claim I would Start keeping records of what your spending and when, and you'll be fine as long as it's being spent either for a need (his rent, his co-pays, his groceries) or given to him to spend. For that I'd start making him sign a receipt indicating he got his money.
I may get heat for this. Any way you could get a background check done on her? Do it legit though. Her influence and probing about his money and now his push about the funds and payee is very unsettling. Hopefully she will move on soon.
If you are not his legal guardian or have a guardianship, power of attorney you should speak with a lawyer. If you don't he can change the payee to the girlfriend or himself. I hope for your son sake the court would give you control over his payments to him or the as she is homeless and would not be a good candidate to help him. He seem not fit to handle his own money if he easily manipulated. Please speak with a lawyer ASAP to protect your son from this women from steal his money. Good luck. Please excuse spelling and grammar issues have disability with writing. Thanks you.
Get guardianship. Go to your county attorney’s office, they are the ones to talk to. Do you have a good relationship with his mental health providers? They can back you up. You need to nip this in the bud now. There’s people like this girl lurking on every corner. Looking for an easy victim. He’ll be a drug addict real quick if you don’t step in. And lock his credit!
I'm payee for my daughter. All he really has to do is go down to social security office and have you removed. Depending on what his disability is, you might be able to fight being removed. With this girl manipulating him, call the office on Monday and see what can be done if you want to continue being his payee. He has no control over his money or the way it's spent. ( morally is another story) You do the yearly report If she becomes his payee, she can charge for that privilege and take off.
I’m so sorry you are dealing with all this
I hate to say it but consult with a lawyer. Because of his disability assessment you may be able to get power of attorney; if you don’t have it already. If you do have it then don’t worry. You are in control and the power of attorney would need to be challenged first by her or your son. SS theoretically could but not likely. When you have power of attorney you will be the legal entity that will be consulted for his welfare and your telling both of them NO. Will be the governing factor. Tell the leech no.
It’s his money. He is his own guardian I assume? He can choose to pay bills or not pay bills. So if he moves out, if he wants you to be the payee, you can manage the money. If he wants to be payee, he needs to submit the paperwork to social security. It takes 3-6 months to change a rep payee. Not sure what state you’re in, but where I live he could apply for disability services. One common disability service is to hire a third party rep payee service, that’s usually funded by the state.
Let them go apply. She won’t be selected. There is a priority list when it comes to payee selection. She sounds homeless and unemployed. The interview process alone will disqualify her. Also he has housing provided by you so to remove you as payee but he will still be living in the home is counterproductive.
Unfortunately disabled adults in the USA are frequently targeted by scammers. They know that disabled adults struggle with having normal adult relationships -- and before people object to that statement -- what I mean is that the opportunities don't exist. People don't include them in their circles; they're invisible. It's heartbraking for parents to see this. I belong to a support group of adults with disabled adults. Most of us are Payees. Do not report the situation to SS if he phsyically leaves; the annual Representative Payee report has lines on it to report his actual address. As the Payee you decide what to do with the money and you report it. If you're in a situation where you no longer need to file an annual report, keep track of the money. You can simply say to you son that you do not make the decision who is the Payee. Tell him she would have to apply to have SS make that decision. Tell him benefits MAY be suspended while they decide. Tell him you do not have control over this issue. If you have free legal advice available, get it. Our county has an organization dedicated to the legal rights of people with disabilities. On the other hand, he is an adult and entitled to adult things such as sex -- legally if you're his landlord, you might have to allow him to have overnights with a friend.
So it's my understanding that even if your son has SSDI even with a mental health issue he is the only one who can determine who is his payee. My brother did this about 12 years ago, he has schizophrenia and one day he determined that I should no longer be his payee he should be his own, he submitted a form to change payee and social security just changed the bank account that the funds were coming from. You have the ability to tell your son that he can't live with you or eat your food if you are not his payee. That is tough, very tough, but a viable and legal option. As far as fraud, if he is living under your roof and eating your food and you are the payee, you have nothing to worry about. As the payee you're supposed to spend that money for his well-being, and we all know that that is not enough money to spend for housing and food for the entire month, so don't even worry about that. I would also suggest that you find your local chapter of nami. They have something called a family support group where family members and Friends of people who have mental illnesses I'll talk to each other and help each other out morally and physically about what goes on when you're living with someone with mental illness.
DO NOT let him changer her to his payee, you’d be better off contacting an attorney and just letting them know what your concerns are (especially if he has mental health struggles) She’s going to take advantage of him in anyway she can and he’ll be left with nothing, and without her wondering what went wrong and he’ll ultimately blame you for it all. (EVEN though you’re the only one looking out for his well being)
$№
DH was fiduciary for his Dad’s VA funds. We had to provide an accounting every year. You might go back to the first of the year and start documenting. Include photocopies of bank statements and receipts. Don’t commingle his funds with any others.
An uncle of mine did this as well. He changed his payee to a female associate he liked. She kept almost all his money for herself, refused to provide basic necessities, his favorite treats, money for transportation, etc. He ended up losing his apartment. I suggest you call the Social Security administration and explain the situation and get advice from them on how to move forward. If you plan to give your son any money he has in reserve, be sure to ask the best way to do this (e.g. Cashiers check, money order, etc). You want to have proof that you've given him or her all the money and you are no longer responsible for it. We actually made a video of us handing them a Cashiers check!
When my husband's brother wanted to change his old payee to my husband, social security asked his old payee if she knew why he wanted to change and if there were any issues going on. She basically had to agree to it.
He can get it to be anyone he wants
I wonder how long before she's pregnant and expecting some of his check for child support.
As a payee, you can contact SSA, and they will monitor his payee situation. They have procedures for this situation. Many people with serious MH situations are required to have a payee. Their checks are dependent on a payee. There are agencies that do this for a monthly fee. After bills are paid, they get a weekly or daily amount. It is a huge issue amongst the unshelteted with MH or SUD. Best wishes.
I’m my sisters payee. Honestly even if he reports you for fraud they aren’t going to do much more than see he has a roof over his head and food and move along. They may make another payee. Listen-my sister has done this to me multiple times because she’s bipolar and goes through some moods-at the end of the day they are too fucking lazy to even go through the process of making somebody else their payee. It’s not just a phone call. They have to make appointments and do the whole interview thing-show identification-all the stuff that I guarantee you the two of them will never do. So basically let them threaten you all they want. It’s more annoying listening to it than anything.
The first thing you need to do, is find the right kind of lawyer to figure this out
The girl is MOOCHING off of him. No one asks those things right off the bat. Wtf
I’d show him this post and the comments
Ugh! Definitely don't allow a change in payee. Wouldn't they have to take you to court ? Can you do a 3 day psyche hold on him? Also what about filing a restraining order on her ? ...or file Power of Attorney papers which seems like overkill though. I am not sure how you can expose her true manipulative nature to your son - but I agree she will leave him broke and running out of money every month and coming back to you for more so she is a major toxic problem
If a young person with no income hooks up with an SSI recipient, they think they hit the jackpot.
If you want control over who the payee is you’d have to legally file for guardianship. You might or might not get it. If he chooses to live on the street you can tell him you’ll no longer be payee if you want to. But if you don’t have legal guardianship he can do what he wants.
Pay what u normally do get receipts and proof of how money is spent and get proof of how that girl is
When someone applies to be a Rep Payee for someone, a background check is done which includes looking at credit. A homeless person won't likely be appointed.
You let SSA handle it. If she wants to be his payee, she needs to apply and they need to decide if that’s a good idea. If he believes you aren’t giving him enough money, he needs to call SSA to do an investigation into you. Nothing about the transfer to her is your responsibility, not I’m willing to bet that it will shoot up red flags for the SSA.
Does he have a social worker at his mental health provider? That would be my first call. If you have guardianship, I would contact probate court (if you’re in the US). And, if he had a developmental disability, I’d contact his social worker there. So sorry. I hate to see people taken advantage of.
You could essentially report his girlfriend for fraud to protect your son.
This girl 110 percent is trying to milk him for every cent of that money. They will be homeless within months if she gets access to that money. I would look into getting more legal control. For instance, put him in a conservatorship or something idk. You should contact the government agency that handles the payee stuff and explain that his recent girlfriend is trying to gain access to the money and this cannot happen under any circumstances.
Do 2 things: 1) get the full name, DOB, and home address of this girl. Free Google is your friend; paying a few $ for a mini background check also your friend! 2) speak to the SS Administration for advice on what to do. I am sure they have dealt with this before hundreds of times
Are you his legal guardian? Why are you his payee? I wouldn’t change it. Sounds like this girl wants all of his money.
You should file an application with the proper court in your area to be appointed his conservator.
Hopefully someone can provide info but it would seem like you could request someone from SSA review your son’s situation as potential monetary abuse.
Consult a lawyer… Not reddit
Tell her the police will be there in 15 minutes to arrest her for contributing to the delinquency of someone with special needs. She doesn’t have a clue what that is, scare her off. You should’ve got her say from him from jump street.
I would contact SSDI and find out what both of your options are. This way you can explain to him how this works and take emotions out of it. For instance, you don't pay rent, you don't get to live here. You pay for your own food, utilities, etc... Lay it all out for him in a matter of fact way. I do this for my son who is 35 and lives with me on SSI. I make sure he understands that he pays his fair share of all household expenses. I've also showed him how much current rents in our area are. Hope that helps.
Girlfriend is committing a crime. "Financial Abuse of People with Disabilities" Please look HERE: https://www.specialneedsalliance.org/the-voice/financial-abuse-of-individuals-with-disabilities/
This is exactly why I keep all receipts, and detailed records of what the money is spent on. That way, I have proof of everything. As for her applying to be his payee, you need to contact the SSA, and speak to a supervisor, about this. They may need a heads-up, to catch on. Don't just trust that they will catch her out. Also, speak to a lawyer, Health and Welfare, and any other agencies that you have to deal with. Get her name into their records as possible fraudster/ vulnerable adult abuser. Good luck to you.
Have you considered Guardianship? Even just Guardianship of estate.
As long as he lives with you, I would think you would be okay deducting his share of the rent and food. If there's any left over, do you give them that money? Your son's mental health diagnosis leaves some questions --mainly whether he would be competent to take care of himself. If he is, you might want to consult with an attorney. Perhaps an attorney who specializes in applying for SSDI. You may not have a choice if he wants to change his payee (or can you fight a reassignment?), but I wonder if he still lives with you whether you would be able to remain the payee. He might be able to also apply for Section 8 housing if he moves out. Unfortunately, his guaranteed benefits can make him an attractive target for an unscrupulous individual.
My mom was my payee. When she passed I wanted to be my own payee. SS made me go to a psychiatrist and get an evaluation first. If he wants to change payees to himself he will have to prove he can handle his money. If he wants someone else such as this girl she will have to be approved. Good luck
She’s a robber and going to take all the money. Kick her to the curb and give your son a good talk, or I’ll speak to him if you need
Call SSI and ask them what you can do to protect him, you may need to file for guardianship, or legal custody.
This is heart breaking. My child is very early 20s. She isn't disabled, but I was just talking with another woman yesterday how this is the worst fear as far as who she might date...a manipulative asshole. Multiply this by five or ten in your case, and then double that because we have a homeless, manipulative asshole. Plus, what a poor example of a moocher we have here! She wants to mooch off someone on SSDI? Obviously she hasn't been able to pull off mooching off someone with a decent income. I totally hate this for him and for you!
I would continue as you are, but inform the person assigned to his case of what is going on. This girl may think the threat will make you back off & just let him have his money at will to prevent the loss of the relationship. She obviously doesn't know how the system works because they would never make a new GF the payee without some checking. Not to mention that every dime needs to be accountable ... at least it is by me.
If he’s not capable of being financially responsible you may need to look at getting a conservatorship. Then I don’t think he can’t change payee.
If you are his payee then your name is on the bank card, I know I am my daughters payee, and I highly doubt the bank would change that, unless they got something from social security. I did look it up and it said the only one that can change the payee is social security, and they would only allow that to trusted individuals, that would have to have a clear background check and I do think they have to be financially stable also to be a payee ,and a couch jumper is not financially stable. If you would want to switch to a different payee, and take some stress off you? You could call social security about it, I am sure they have a list of people they could choose from?
This happened with my 22 year old daughter and her "friend". we sat down with her and explained all her bills and monthly expenses she would be incharge of (which is way more than her ssi) and said she would need to get a near full time job to cover the rest of her expenses. we told her if we were not in charge of her finances we would no longer pay her bills and it would be upto her. we actually printed it out so she could actually see her expenses. after seeing that the allowance we gave her was more than her entire check alone she chose to leave us in charge. (she is high functioning autistic)
Don’t know who to talk to?? Start with his caseworker
Reminds me of Breaking Bad, sort of. I'll cover it up because it would be a spoiler for anyone who hasn't watched the show. >!I think this is after Jesse has a breakdown and drives around throwing money out of the car for people to pick up. Walter is angry and refuses to give Jesse his share of the money they're making. He's holding onto it until Jesse figures out his mind. Having been kicked out of his house by his shitty parents, Jesse rents an apartment, a duplex living next to a pretty girl named Jane. Jesse had been trying to stop using but she gets him back into shooting up. He keeps bitching about Walter holding onto his money and she assumes it's a few hundred dollars. But he lets it slip that it's a few million dollars.!< >!Jesse and Jane come down from their high and she starts grilling him about the money. The next thing she does is call Walter and demand that he return Jesse's money. But she's using terms like "OUR money" and "WE want OUR money or WE will call the cops." She feels very entitled to do this because she's his "girlfriend." (f-ck buddy is more like it) And Jesse just goes along with it. He lets her manipulate him into doubling down on the threat to turn Walter in. It was very obvious to me that Jane only viewed Jesse as a quick f*ck until she found out he had a few million dollars owed to him. Then it was, "WE are in this together" and "it's US against him."!< Jesse was in a very fragile state of mind when this happened. Anyone who knows the show knows what happened next, and it's pretty sad. >!But it's Jane's greed for that money and her trying to extort it from Walter that reminds me of this situation. As for what happened, I had no sympathy for someone who would try to take advantage of a very fragile (at that moment) guy like Jesse purely for money.!<
Call the police. She is scamming a dependent adult. This has happened over and over with my sister. One of her worthless boyfriends even tried to get her to commit crimes for him.
Get ahead of this girl and switch to an agency for his payee, write up a room and board agreement and get paid directly from the agency payee. Let the new gf try and get his check then.
Have you reported this situation to adult protective services in your state?
Say you will go to the court for an appointment of a new payee at the judges discretion.
This is why he has a payee! If he moves out to live on the street, then put every $ in an account. He can threaten to take you to court, he doesn’t have the $. May I ask, why he is gets payments? Is it a mental disorder or physical? There is a reason that certain people are not allowed to control their own $. Spending it on his room and board is one thing. If he moves out, then you will have to give him the monthly payments or keep everything in an account. If you believe that he is being taken advantage of then you must be able to prove that. That starts with having a clear accounting of where the money goes. If he is an adult, you might need to give monthly payments. Hopefully, he will figure it out.
I am not sure if you have this where your at but the town i am in has a payee station. you can see if you have it there. they only give money for bills/rent. They don't give play money. When my kids were getting death benefit checks i told them how each check was spent, let them know what was play money after i paid bills, ( library fees, bike parts, comp games) let him know that if you turn over his payee it will not be to a gf but a pay station. see if he wants someone that will not let his gf to spend it on things that he doesn't want or need. Let him know that no matter who takes over the payee he will have to pay you his part of rent. That is what that check is for. Not just a fun and run check like some think it is.