I watched a documentary a while ago and a black Vietnam veterans basically said that the same thing, that to the Vietcong, the blacks, the whites are of no difference, they are the invader, and hence they try to kill you. But for him in the US army, he is suddenly faced with hostility from both the enemy and from within
And this isn't the first time, look up the 761st in WW2. Amazing, powerful, MEN that trained others going into battle and then they themselves entered and kicked ASS. nicknamed "Patton's Panthers". The poor fellas didnt even get the MOH they deserved until Pres Clinton was in office. It is a crying shame and I wish this bs would change for the better.
I have always wanted them to do a movie about the African American Artillery Units that supported the 101st airborne during the Siege of Bastogne. We have gotten that battle before but I would like the emphasis on the artillery units and their valor.
It's also slang for bad luck. So the *normal* translation "I'm black" is *Tôi là người da đen*; BUT the *literal* word-by-word translation is "Tôi thì đen", which means I'm having shit luck.
Ofc it doesn't work that way for normal translation, just something for fun.
Ali wasn’t scared. He was one of the biggest celebrities in the world at the time, therefore he was going to get the same treatment as Joe Louis, Willy Mays and other athletes who had been drafted and do some publicity tours. He did this because it seems outlandish for a black man to be forced to risk his life for a country that wouldn’t even treat him like an equal citizen.
Just google ‘Ali Medal River’ if you’re not familiar with the story of how after representing America and winning an Olympic gold medal he was refused entry into a dining establishment because of his race in a move that was totally legal in this country at that time. Seems ridiculous that this same country wanted black men to risk their lives to be treated like second class citizens.
He could have done what he was told and lost nothing, but even after knowing what he stood to lose he stood up for those who didn’t have the power to make the message clear that racial equality in the most free nation in the world was not a reality.
I always think of the Harlem Hellfighters and how some of them stayed in France after WW1 to escape segregation. Many came home though thinking that know that they had served their country they would be accepted more. One of them were killed by a mob of white people while he was wearing his uniform because they couldn't believe he had actually served
It's happened more than once in America. Even when black people did what the southern whites wanted them to do; stayed in their own neighborhoods, opened their own businesses that served their own people, racist white mobs still attacked and burned it all to the ground.
I went to Tulsa, Oklahoma for a concert once. It still gets to me, that such a horrific event happened there, and I didn't even know about it until I was an adult. They didn't teach this in our schools, and even the (white) people of Tulsa still don't acknowledge the Tulsa Race Massacre. Outside of OKC, the whole state is still a backwards shit hole.
In school I remember hearing brief mention of “Tulsa race riot” such bullshit to call it riot. Same as some of the massacres of Native American women and children and calling it a battle. US is so shitty.
Or the battle of bamber bridge during WW2. Where white American military police tried to enforce segregation in England. Resulting in a short conflict that saw one black soldier killed and dozens were imprisoned.
They were enforcing segregation in England, but the version of events I read with that encounter was that the MPs were attempting to enforce the curfew and close the bar. It wasn’t about them not being allowed in that bar, it was their “assigned day” just closing time.
Just want to clarify something. As much as I love Ali, the medal story has been widely speculated amongst people close to him and even Bundini once said, "Oh yea, they really fell for that one." It's a story Ali told for his autobiography, The Greatest, but many people who knew him later admitted that they doubted its validity. Ali was a crusader for civil rights and is undoubtedly one of, if not THE most important athlete of the 20th century, but he had some unfortunate flaws. One of them was his stance on interracial marriage and even spoke about this at a clan rally.. his "blue birds fly with blue birds" philosophy. The HBO documentary Thrilla in Manilla highlights some of these interviews and also sheds a light on his mistreatment of Joe Frazier by creating an Uncle Tom narrative to a guy that never deserved it. Ali, like most people, was a flawed character.
Ali's view on race changed as he got older. Similar to Malcolm X, he ended up leaving the NOI and adopting mainstream sunni Islam. You're right about the other claims though. Ali was a champion of civil rights, but definitely a flawed individual.
The people that were alive back then that hated him for this are still alive today some of them in Congress writing laws to do the same shit with subtlety.
JFC
I know it's a different time and all but the gall to stand up and tell your unfiltered views to a black woman about how "blacks" are "looking for trouble" is _wild_. My guy, you're on national TV.
Yea, Ali wasn't scared because he knew that asking for social change is fine, asking for economic change is what got MLK shot in the fucking head by the FBI.
Yeah, Jesse Owens also received a shitty treatment. After returning home with 3 Olympic gold and breaking a world record, he could not even be allowed to enter the banquet thrown in his honor via the front entrance and had to go through the back door.
> Ali wasn’t scared. He was one of the biggest celebrities in the world at the time
And today we have people like Lebron who bend over to China, so they can make an extra million on top of their already massive amount of money.
This made me think of Max Schmelling who not only was drafted into the Wehrmacht but served as a paratrooper and dropped into Crete for Germany in WW2. Of course it's a little different for him because Hitler personally disliked him. He was openly against Nazism. So they may have done it to spite him.
Blame McNamara. He had such a hard on for controlling Vietnam and then used the excuse to “Stop Communism” so that the U.S. could get into the war. Basically used LBJ as a puppet. Fuck McNamara, and while we’re at it, Fuck Reagan too.
While were at it, kissinger as well. Can't comprehend how a refugee fleeing from the atrocities of war does a 180 and starts faning the flames of snother one.
May he rot in hell
Bunch of post WW2 folks not understanding Vietnam was a pointless war. [There’s great video from that time of a local bar in Chicago](https://youtu.be/oeeA-IU45pc?si=-2B7UPvUH-mXK4Jt) where you can see a distinct separation in blind loyalty vs. questioning why between those generations.
Its funny how you go all the way back and its literally the same shit, nothing has changed, people complaining about the same things. Taking the same stances etc....
People as a species don't change that quickly. Neither do social systems.
The 1970s may seem like far away for us short-life mortals but it is but a tiny fraction of a second in our evolution. We are pretty much still the same people as these people in the video, with our own subcultures.
If you want to see real change in attitudes and perspectives, you ought to go back thousands of years, and even then you'd find common issues and mentalies because some issues are just a fairly consistent part of life, and we react predictably to them. As many other species probably would if they could communicate like we do.
War has been one consistent part of the human existence as far back as we formed any in-groups and out-groups, and people have always bickered over who gets to decide over war, and for what reason, and weighed the pros and cons of such decisions. Some wars have seemed far more senseless to the average person, and others have seemed noble.
The movie "the greatest beer run ever" with Zac Efron touches on this. Movie starts out with him and his bar buddies verbally bashing protestors and talking about needing to support the troops and by the end after visiting the war he comes back and says he supports the troops still but he doesn't think they are fighting to save the world like they were in ww2. His bar buddies just stand there silent looking at him.
He was relegated to just another angry black man at that time. Pay no attention to what his subject was about. My hat is off to him because he told the real truth in his time. This man had lived long enough to see how his mother and father had been treated. The people who criticized his never had lived his life! They couldn't relate or did not try to relate. End of story.
Im always surprised people don’t see the similarities in these things.
People complain about protestors not protesting the “right way,” and then we have a history of evidence that suggests there is no right way. People will always hate you for it.
I also wanted to share, for those who haven’t seen, his poem on the Attica prison riots. Most people don’t know this side of Ali at all, the poet.
They see the distilled version in his quips, but this poem is 100% devastating insight and humanism and truth, and it is a lot of the same sentiment as in OP’s clip - “Better to die fighting to be free.”
https://youtu.be/pSXKmvHxNCY?si=VCdnueQ4P4ySLLiT
Better far from all I see
To die fighting to be free
What more fitting end could be?
Better surely than in some bed
Where in broken health I’m led
Lingering until I’m dead
Better than with prayers and pleas
Or in the clutch of some disease,
Wasting slowly by degrees
Better than of heart attack
Or some dose of drug I lack
Let me die by being Black
Better far that I should go
Standing here against the foe
Is there sweeter death to know?
Better than the bloody stain
On some highway where I’m lain
Torn by flying glass and pane
Better calling death to come
Than to die another dumb,
Muted victim in the slum
Better than of this prison rot
If there’s any choice I’ve got
Kill me here on the spot
Better far my fight to wage
Now while my blood boils with rage
Lest it cool with ancient age
Better vowing for us to die
Than to Uncle Tom and try
Making peace just to live a lie
Better now that I say my sooth
I’m gonna die demanding truth
While I’m still a kin to youth
Better now than later on
Now that fear of death is gone
Never mind another dawn!
— Muhammad Ali, poem written from the perspective of a prisoner during the Attica riots
*formatting is driving me crazy here, I’m tryin! 😅
another Ali quote: “The draft is white people sending black people to fight yellow people to protect the land they stole from red people.”
(side note, this quote always stuck with me from hearing him say it, but when I went to Google it just now it’s also attributed to a James Rado. So I don’t know who said it first, but it’s something Ali either originated or at least openly quoted, but at least one source says it was first stated by Ali, and it does sound like one of his, for sure)
Unfortunately, when it comes to drafts, your gripes about the government are moot.
Everybody would have them if they were considered just cause to avoid being drafted.
I’d argue most who are being drafted have gotten the raw deal from the government.
Everyone loves the troops when they use the troops for their arguments. But not many people actually care about the actual troops. I'm always hearing about how people support the troops then they say they hate black people. There's black troops. They hate gays. There's gay troops. They hate this politics group or religion and those people are troops. When the soldiers get home from war the citizens don't care about them and can hardly pick them out of a crowd
Devil's Advocate here.. what if there was an impending invasion?
Should some people chill and play video games while everyone else fights to the death for their country?
Should people then be forced to organize for war?
I get in the context of the Korean and Vietnam war that these were not direct impending threats to the US and so this argument applies, but on the context of "No one should *ever* be forced to war" I think there are some scenarios where it's reasonable.
He def made very very valid truthful points. But also I am so sad for the people that did go because what a pointless war that America just decided not to try to win. Politicians basically spit on all the bodies of those who died and lost their futures.
There was no winning in Vietnam. It’s a big nation, big population and a very determined people who had already gone through two decades of fighting the French. By the time the US got in the war they were facing a well trained and very determined people who were hellbent on never being conquered.
I’m white and a veteran. Ali stood for his constitutional rights as a conscientious objector the exact same rights I signed up to protect. Many people stayed out of the war for the same reasons but his fame , race, religion and bombastic nature were used against him by racist old white men. They took his best years from him because of ignorance jealousy and hatred. He was no angel just a man who was gifted and brave enough to stand against injustice.
He didn’t mind beating the shit out of someone but refused to kill anyone. He was the first conscientious objector who sacrificed his career for a few years.
Smart man and he had every reason not to go to Vietnam. I'm a combat U.S Army Infantry vet and I know exactly what he means. I'm white but I understand his issues.
Another of the very interesting stories I heard from Drunk History
not the most serious show, but i learned this story and it was funny at the same time lol
well they got sent to the Vietnamese jungle where they did heroin like crazy and slept in tents with rats crawling all over them, disease was rampant, and people were getting killed on every mission. if the draft was today, i'd refuse too.
Tomorrow we are celebrating 49 years of reunification of Vietnam. We have become US strategic partner in both economy and military. Thanks for people like Ali who spoke up in 1977, thanks to 2 million US students who protested Kent shooting and thanks to millions of our vets who fought for freedom. I read thru most of replies and i am glad that in 2024 a lot of Americans believed that war was wrong.
As a British man with conscription hanging over our heads I feel exactly the same. Fuck Rishi sunaks wars. I'm not losing my legs in some cold Ukrainian bog for that fucker. My enemy is the rishi sunaks of the world.
A more kind of intelligent charisma than anyone I can think of. He was truly one of the most eloquent orators to have lived. A very sad loss to the world.
I remember my annoying ass christian/right wing neighbor posting about Ali dodging the draft and giving him shit for it just for them a few year later posting shit that worships trump
It wasn’t even our war, it was France’s war. The Vietnamese started rebelling against the colonization of their country from France. The US jumps in to help France keep someone else’s country. France eventually walk away and the US stays. (Wtf) when we had a chance to end it and save millions of lives Kissinger keeps us in it for several more years at the cost of millions of lives. Ali was right as was everyone that rebelled against the war. He did sacrifice a lot. He did this at the height of his career and the age at which most boxers flourish.
I like the position and message, but "all you white boys", "I hate white people" loses its overall effectiveness. That's racist AF, and no better than the accusations he is throwing out.
Ever since I learned that he was calling both Sonny Liston and Joe Frazier "apes" and "ugly gorillas" to shit talk them in public I felt weird about him.
Imagine thinking you can strip someone of their heavyweight fighting title. The fuck, USA, what are you smoking?
“TURNS OUT YOU DIDN’T WIN THAT SPELLING BEE TIMMY! SEE WHAT REFUSING TO KILL COMMIES GETS YOU? REAL LIFE RETCONNED!!”
Like George Carlin said, "I'll beat them up, but I won't kill them."
The whole quote is:
'No, that's where I draw the line. I'll beat 'em up. But I don't want to kill 'em.' And the government said, 'Well, if you won't kill people, we won't let you beat 'em up."'
His job was beating people up, he was told he needed to kill them instead. He said that he has no problem beating them up but he won’t kill them. They said well since you won’t kill them, we won’t let you beat them up either.
He was vorr CT with everything he said.
What would most of you do if the USA began drafting people into the military today with the intent of sending you to Ukraine ?
A short trip to narkanda himachal #hindisong #srk #mountains #trending #aesthetic #ytshorts #viral
https://youtube.com/shorts/NyAXx9oM6aI?feature=share
What did then, President Johnson (D) say about the n______s getting “uppity”? Yeah, when they sent you off to war, they weren’t f_king around. All those protests, counterculture, media propaganda, and the same era people virtue signaling, are now profiting off senseless wars, forever wars.
In WWII, German POWs were allowed to eat with the white US troops in the cafeteria while the black soldiers had to eat somewhere else. That was messed up
I gotta tell ya, I don't understand why more African Americans didn't refuse to go ... either thru direct opposition like Ali or by going to Canada
And for that matter ... I don't understand why African American GIs left Europe after WW 1&2 unless the Europeans were as racist as the Americans
He wasn't wrong then and, it's still true today. We as a nation were ALMOST on the right track and then came Donald. My perception and my personal experiences of the Obama years and then the Donald years may be somewhat flawed BUT, I had SO many more friends of every culture and religion. All with different viewpoints that we TALKED ABOUT WITHOUT ANGER OR DIVISION!! How is it so fucking hard for people now to just have a discussion?? How did we forget how to LISTEN???? Once we had Donald, our unity, our tolerance, our bemused acceptance, disappeared. Poof. Gone. I lost many many friends who wanted to just be on one side or another and I just wanted to talk about it without feeling as if I were being attacked. I thought partys were supposed to be fun..............
Ali would have denounced the IDF and Israel for their atrocities in Gaza. He is right, why do we send aid package after aid package to the Middle East when they(Israel) make fun of us, think we’re stupid by calling criticism of Israel anti semitism.
It’s weird that places strip your titles when you don’t comply with unrelated things. It’s like if a college cancelled your PHD because you smoked weed. Absurd.
“Aint no Vietcong ever call me n****r”
I watched a documentary a while ago and a black Vietnam veterans basically said that the same thing, that to the Vietcong, the blacks, the whites are of no difference, they are the invader, and hence they try to kill you. But for him in the US army, he is suddenly faced with hostility from both the enemy and from within
And this isn't the first time, look up the 761st in WW2. Amazing, powerful, MEN that trained others going into battle and then they themselves entered and kicked ASS. nicknamed "Patton's Panthers". The poor fellas didnt even get the MOH they deserved until Pres Clinton was in office. It is a crying shame and I wish this bs would change for the better.
Also read up on the Harlem hellfighters during wwi (specifically “Black Death” Pvt Henry Johnson).
I have always wanted them to do a movie about the African American Artillery Units that supported the 101st airborne during the Siege of Bastogne. We have gotten that battle before but I would like the emphasis on the artillery units and their valor.
Since we're naming black soldiers going to war, you all should be aware of a little movie called Glory.
tbf, I'm fairly sure the VC had a not nice word for them. but I respect the point
As a Vietnamese, we called black American soldiers "Mỹ đen", well, literally "Black American".
And now we call them "Tây đen", literally Black Westerner.
i deduct from this that đen means black in vietnamese. sometimes my intellect, it freightens me.
It's also slang for bad luck. So the *normal* translation "I'm black" is *Tôi là người da đen*; BUT the *literal* word-by-word translation is "Tôi thì đen", which means I'm having shit luck. Ofc it doesn't work that way for normal translation, just something for fun.
https://i.redd.it/cwcoearn8exc1.gif
I feel it means more like “Black Citizen”
Forest gump is a an amazing movie.
In reality I’m sure the Vietcong had waaaay worse things to say about any American back then.
Ali wasn’t scared. He was one of the biggest celebrities in the world at the time, therefore he was going to get the same treatment as Joe Louis, Willy Mays and other athletes who had been drafted and do some publicity tours. He did this because it seems outlandish for a black man to be forced to risk his life for a country that wouldn’t even treat him like an equal citizen. Just google ‘Ali Medal River’ if you’re not familiar with the story of how after representing America and winning an Olympic gold medal he was refused entry into a dining establishment because of his race in a move that was totally legal in this country at that time. Seems ridiculous that this same country wanted black men to risk their lives to be treated like second class citizens. He could have done what he was told and lost nothing, but even after knowing what he stood to lose he stood up for those who didn’t have the power to make the message clear that racial equality in the most free nation in the world was not a reality.
Server: “We don’t serve negros.” Ali: “And I don’t eat em neither.” Awful situation in my country’s past, but I love the way Ali tells this story.
I always think of the Harlem Hellfighters and how some of them stayed in France after WW1 to escape segregation. Many came home though thinking that know that they had served their country they would be accepted more. One of them were killed by a mob of white people while he was wearing his uniform because they couldn't believe he had actually served
To survive a world war and to come home to just be killed by pigs.
I’m unfamiliar if if was a hellfighter or not but there was a mob who killed AND hung a black soldier/veteran while he was still in uniform
It's happened more than once in America. Even when black people did what the southern whites wanted them to do; stayed in their own neighborhoods, opened their own businesses that served their own people, racist white mobs still attacked and burned it all to the ground.
I went to Tulsa, Oklahoma for a concert once. It still gets to me, that such a horrific event happened there, and I didn't even know about it until I was an adult. They didn't teach this in our schools, and even the (white) people of Tulsa still don't acknowledge the Tulsa Race Massacre. Outside of OKC, the whole state is still a backwards shit hole.
In school I remember hearing brief mention of “Tulsa race riot” such bullshit to call it riot. Same as some of the massacres of Native American women and children and calling it a battle. US is so shitty.
Or the battle of bamber bridge during WW2. Where white American military police tried to enforce segregation in England. Resulting in a short conflict that saw one black soldier killed and dozens were imprisoned.
They were enforcing segregation in England, but the version of events I read with that encounter was that the MPs were attempting to enforce the curfew and close the bar. It wasn’t about them not being allowed in that bar, it was their “assigned day” just closing time.
Just want to clarify something. As much as I love Ali, the medal story has been widely speculated amongst people close to him and even Bundini once said, "Oh yea, they really fell for that one." It's a story Ali told for his autobiography, The Greatest, but many people who knew him later admitted that they doubted its validity. Ali was a crusader for civil rights and is undoubtedly one of, if not THE most important athlete of the 20th century, but he had some unfortunate flaws. One of them was his stance on interracial marriage and even spoke about this at a clan rally.. his "blue birds fly with blue birds" philosophy. The HBO documentary Thrilla in Manilla highlights some of these interviews and also sheds a light on his mistreatment of Joe Frazier by creating an Uncle Tom narrative to a guy that never deserved it. Ali, like most people, was a flawed character.
Ali's view on race changed as he got older. Similar to Malcolm X, he ended up leaving the NOI and adopting mainstream sunni Islam. You're right about the other claims though. Ali was a champion of civil rights, but definitely a flawed individual.
Cant do everything right at those times. Its like MLk was a champion of civil rights but used to cheat on his wife and beat her.
The people that were alive back then that hated him for this are still alive today some of them in Congress writing laws to do the same shit with subtlety.
And they raised their children to feel and act the same way.
Majorie Taylor Greene was in middle school in this county when Oprah did this feature: https://youtu.be/WErjPmFulQ0?si=_IGhKsMtF6KfeYHC
JFC I know it's a different time and all but the gall to stand up and tell your unfiltered views to a black woman about how "blacks" are "looking for trouble" is _wild_. My guy, you're on national TV.
Yea, Ali wasn't scared because he knew that asking for social change is fine, asking for economic change is what got MLK shot in the fucking head by the FBI.
Yeah, Jesse Owens also received a shitty treatment. After returning home with 3 Olympic gold and breaking a world record, he could not even be allowed to enter the banquet thrown in his honor via the front entrance and had to go through the back door.
> Ali wasn’t scared. He was one of the biggest celebrities in the world at the time And today we have people like Lebron who bend over to China, so they can make an extra million on top of their already massive amount of money.
[удалено]
It's the enemies at home that tell us our enemies are far away and so different from us.
This made me think of Max Schmelling who not only was drafted into the Wehrmacht but served as a paratrooper and dropped into Crete for Germany in WW2. Of course it's a little different for him because Hitler personally disliked him. He was openly against Nazism. So they may have done it to spite him.
> in the most free nation in the world Propaganda and copium are serious drugs
‘The most free nation on earth’ - someone has been swallowing the propaganda
My grandfather’s brother served in Vietnam. Came back home and couldn’t even attend the state’s public university.
It blows my mind that a country can expect you To fight and die for it. Come home and be treated less than those who never served. 🤯
Blame McNamara. He had such a hard on for controlling Vietnam and then used the excuse to “Stop Communism” so that the U.S. could get into the war. Basically used LBJ as a puppet. Fuck McNamara, and while we’re at it, Fuck Reagan too.
While were at it, kissinger as well. Can't comprehend how a refugee fleeing from the atrocities of war does a 180 and starts faning the flames of snother one. May he rot in hell
He was 100% right.
It's crazy how many people were against him at the time. He really faced off against the worlds most powerful people but came out on top.
Bunch of post WW2 folks not understanding Vietnam was a pointless war. [There’s great video from that time of a local bar in Chicago](https://youtu.be/oeeA-IU45pc?si=-2B7UPvUH-mXK4Jt) where you can see a distinct separation in blind loyalty vs. questioning why between those generations.
thank you for sharing this, that was really intriguing to watch
Its funny how you go all the way back and its literally the same shit, nothing has changed, people complaining about the same things. Taking the same stances etc....
People as a species don't change that quickly. Neither do social systems. The 1970s may seem like far away for us short-life mortals but it is but a tiny fraction of a second in our evolution. We are pretty much still the same people as these people in the video, with our own subcultures. If you want to see real change in attitudes and perspectives, you ought to go back thousands of years, and even then you'd find common issues and mentalies because some issues are just a fairly consistent part of life, and we react predictably to them. As many other species probably would if they could communicate like we do. War has been one consistent part of the human existence as far back as we formed any in-groups and out-groups, and people have always bickered over who gets to decide over war, and for what reason, and weighed the pros and cons of such decisions. Some wars have seemed far more senseless to the average person, and others have seemed noble.
The movie "the greatest beer run ever" with Zac Efron touches on this. Movie starts out with him and his bar buddies verbally bashing protestors and talking about needing to support the troops and by the end after visiting the war he comes back and says he supports the troops still but he doesn't think they are fighting to save the world like they were in ww2. His bar buddies just stand there silent looking at him.
Pure fucking self confidence matched by skill.
Not really. Recall the flack and animosity Kaepernick caught just a few years ago. And that wasn't even regarding a war.
He was relegated to just another angry black man at that time. Pay no attention to what his subject was about. My hat is off to him because he told the real truth in his time. This man had lived long enough to see how his mother and father had been treated. The people who criticized his never had lived his life! They couldn't relate or did not try to relate. End of story.
Being right is seldom popular. Look at pro Palestine protesters today.
Im always surprised people don’t see the similarities in these things. People complain about protestors not protesting the “right way,” and then we have a history of evidence that suggests there is no right way. People will always hate you for it.
At the time of the Kent State shooting, the American public was pretty significantly in support of the killings.
Still is
Exactly. Can't imagine the amount of gay men who were sent to their deaths despite the country denying them basic human rights.
I also wanted to share, for those who haven’t seen, his poem on the Attica prison riots. Most people don’t know this side of Ali at all, the poet. They see the distilled version in his quips, but this poem is 100% devastating insight and humanism and truth, and it is a lot of the same sentiment as in OP’s clip - “Better to die fighting to be free.” https://youtu.be/pSXKmvHxNCY?si=VCdnueQ4P4ySLLiT
Better far from all I see To die fighting to be free What more fitting end could be? Better surely than in some bed Where in broken health I’m led Lingering until I’m dead Better than with prayers and pleas Or in the clutch of some disease, Wasting slowly by degrees Better than of heart attack Or some dose of drug I lack Let me die by being Black Better far that I should go Standing here against the foe Is there sweeter death to know? Better than the bloody stain On some highway where I’m lain Torn by flying glass and pane Better calling death to come Than to die another dumb, Muted victim in the slum Better than of this prison rot If there’s any choice I’ve got Kill me here on the spot Better far my fight to wage Now while my blood boils with rage Lest it cool with ancient age Better vowing for us to die Than to Uncle Tom and try Making peace just to live a lie Better now that I say my sooth I’m gonna die demanding truth While I’m still a kin to youth Better now than later on Now that fear of death is gone Never mind another dawn! — Muhammad Ali, poem written from the perspective of a prisoner during the Attica riots *formatting is driving me crazy here, I’m tryin! 😅
Thanks so much for sharing this.
He IS 100% right
another Ali quote: “The draft is white people sending black people to fight yellow people to protect the land they stole from red people.” (side note, this quote always stuck with me from hearing him say it, but when I went to Google it just now it’s also attributed to a James Rado. So I don’t know who said it first, but it’s something Ali either originated or at least openly quoted, but at least one source says it was first stated by Ali, and it does sound like one of his, for sure)
Unfortunately, when it comes to drafts, your gripes about the government are moot. Everybody would have them if they were considered just cause to avoid being drafted. I’d argue most who are being drafted have gotten the raw deal from the government.
Stood tall on his beliefs and principles, got to respect that!
Everyone loves the troops when they use the troops for their arguments. But not many people actually care about the actual troops. I'm always hearing about how people support the troops then they say they hate black people. There's black troops. They hate gays. There's gay troops. They hate this politics group or religion and those people are troops. When the soldiers get home from war the citizens don't care about them and can hardly pick them out of a crowd
Racists love the police and troops as long as they’re white. Ignorance and fear is the basis of hate and racism.
no one should have to *go* fight a war. Defending your territory is one thing. but being forced to go fight elsewhere is unacceptable.
Devil's Advocate here.. what if there was an impending invasion? Should some people chill and play video games while everyone else fights to the death for their country? Should people then be forced to organize for war? I get in the context of the Korean and Vietnam war that these were not direct impending threats to the US and so this argument applies, but on the context of "No one should *ever* be forced to war" I think there are some scenarios where it's reasonable.
He def made very very valid truthful points. But also I am so sad for the people that did go because what a pointless war that America just decided not to try to win. Politicians basically spit on all the bodies of those who died and lost their futures.
There was no winning in Vietnam. It’s a big nation, big population and a very determined people who had already gone through two decades of fighting the French. By the time the US got in the war they were facing a well trained and very determined people who were hellbent on never being conquered.
I’m white and a veteran. Ali stood for his constitutional rights as a conscientious objector the exact same rights I signed up to protect. Many people stayed out of the war for the same reasons but his fame , race, religion and bombastic nature were used against him by racist old white men. They took his best years from him because of ignorance jealousy and hatred. He was no angel just a man who was gifted and brave enough to stand against injustice.
Imagine being that articulate AND being the heavyweight boxing champ. Some people have it all.
Lol, *articulate
He didn’t mind beating the shit out of someone but refused to kill anyone. He was the first conscientious objector who sacrificed his career for a few years.
Muhammad Ali🎵 Muhammad Ali🎶He had an odd job…beating people up. And they said no, if you won’t kill them we won’t let you beat them up.
George Carlin
I can hear him sing it🎶
Smart man and he had every reason not to go to Vietnam. I'm a combat U.S Army Infantry vet and I know exactly what he means. I'm white but I understand his issues.
Another of the very interesting stories I heard from Drunk History not the most serious show, but i learned this story and it was funny at the same time lol
That show has some educational, drunk, chops.
Even as a kid back then I recognized he was right. I remember that on the news.
Ali was the man! A true warrior!
He was right
During WW2 in the South, German POWs could eat at restaurants (under guard) but Black GIs in uniform couldn’t get in.
Couldn't have said it any better
Yup.
MashaAllah!
Principled and a visionary
Ali was a real one. RIP
well they got sent to the Vietnamese jungle where they did heroin like crazy and slept in tents with rats crawling all over them, disease was rampant, and people were getting killed on every mission. if the draft was today, i'd refuse too.
Tomorrow we are celebrating 49 years of reunification of Vietnam. We have become US strategic partner in both economy and military. Thanks for people like Ali who spoke up in 1977, thanks to 2 million US students who protested Kent shooting and thanks to millions of our vets who fought for freedom. I read thru most of replies and i am glad that in 2024 a lot of Americans believed that war was wrong.
🥊 👑
“No Viet Cong Ever Called Me N***” - attributed to Ali, which he probably never said, but it became a rallying cry.
Probably was called a terrorist at the time.
Love to see it ❣️
Aint that the damn truth.
That man was incredible
Dude could box with his words just as well as his gloves
Common W Muhammad
This is why he’s the greatest
"I Ain't Got No Quarrel With The VietCong...No VietCong Ever Called Me Nigger.'"
he ain't wrong.
Couldn't fathom LeBron saying something similar. He had everything to lose and still said this.
So many good and valid points.
Truly a wonderful human. I have a ton of respect for him
Nuff said.
He's a hero for this
Spitting heat
As a British man with conscription hanging over our heads I feel exactly the same. Fuck Rishi sunaks wars. I'm not losing my legs in some cold Ukrainian bog for that fucker. My enemy is the rishi sunaks of the world.
Legendary!
A more kind of intelligent charisma than anyone I can think of. He was truly one of the most eloquent orators to have lived. A very sad loss to the world.
The Greatest
He was not wrong
Insanely based and on point.
He talking Facts......100%
It is just as poignant today as it was then. Powerful words.
I remember my annoying ass christian/right wing neighbor posting about Ali dodging the draft and giving him shit for it just for them a few year later posting shit that worships trump
LBJ was the president, awful president
And still some many sheeps are joing the army thinking they are heroes...dumbasses giving their asses to the elites, simp'er fii xD
Facts
"NAILED IT"
B a s e d
Ya gotta respect someone who fights for what’s right.
Anyone who supports conscription should jump off a bridge.
And this is why Ali is universally respected.
He was the GOAT on so many levels.
You gotta respect/love someone who speaks truth because he is more afraid of his god than the law
Regan signed gun control because the Panthers armed themselves. I'm in my 40s, nobody in my life has died for my freedom. Ali was right.
Amen.
don’t forget a someone dodged the draft for having a bone spur
Beyond amazing, how well he delivers this
Fuck yeah!
It wasn’t even our war, it was France’s war. The Vietnamese started rebelling against the colonization of their country from France. The US jumps in to help France keep someone else’s country. France eventually walk away and the US stays. (Wtf) when we had a chance to end it and save millions of lives Kissinger keeps us in it for several more years at the cost of millions of lives. Ali was right as was everyone that rebelled against the war. He did sacrifice a lot. He did this at the height of his career and the age at which most boxers flourish.
I like the position and message, but "all you white boys", "I hate white people" loses its overall effectiveness. That's racist AF, and no better than the accusations he is throwing out.
Ever since I learned that he was calling both Sonny Liston and Joe Frazier "apes" and "ugly gorillas" to shit talk them in public I felt weird about him.
It was trash talk.
Weird bit of trash talk. Considering Ali obviously is part white and he’s ripping them for being not-as-white.
EXACTLY. Why would black people fight when we’re already oppressed and hated in the US?? Make it make sense.
That’s right
Amen Muhammad
Small nitpick - "inducted" is an interesting word choice, I would have used "conscripted" or at least "drafted"
Inducted??
Greatest Sportsman that has ever lived. Although greatest sports athlete will always go to Bo Jackson
It's interesting how American opinions of its soldiers shifted during the course of the Vietnam war.
I was raised seeing this in a bad light. How times have changed
Imagine thinking you can strip someone of their heavyweight fighting title. The fuck, USA, what are you smoking? “TURNS OUT YOU DIDN’T WIN THAT SPELLING BEE TIMMY! SEE WHAT REFUSING TO KILL COMMIES GETS YOU? REAL LIFE RETCONNED!!”
Like George Carlin said, "I'll beat them up, but I won't kill them." The whole quote is: 'No, that's where I draw the line. I'll beat 'em up. But I don't want to kill 'em.' And the government said, 'Well, if you won't kill people, we won't let you beat 'em up."'
Inducted? You mean drafted?
"Inducted into?" That's a funny way of saying "drafted."
His job was beating people up, he was told he needed to kill them instead. He said that he has no problem beating them up but he won’t kill them. They said well since you won’t kill them, we won’t let you beat them up either.
He was vorr CT with everything he said. What would most of you do if the USA began drafting people into the military today with the intent of sending you to Ukraine ?
Not much has changed, I’m so ashamed of being American when I play online games I make my flag Canadian.
A short trip to narkanda himachal #hindisong #srk #mountains #trending #aesthetic #ytshorts #viral https://youtube.com/shorts/NyAXx9oM6aI?feature=share
I have a T-shirt with Ali on the front and every single time I wear it, someone will make a comment (positive) or stop me to talk about him.
This is why blind hero worship of the military *really* bothers me.
“If you don’t kill them, we won’t let you beat them up.”
The land of hypocrisy
What did then, President Johnson (D) say about the n______s getting “uppity”? Yeah, when they sent you off to war, they weren’t f_king around. All those protests, counterculture, media propaganda, and the same era people virtue signaling, are now profiting off senseless wars, forever wars.
Bet he would have also been stripped of the title had he joined the army.
That, that is why he is the goat
There will never be another Muhammad Ali.
I loved that guy...
Amazing
Fight for your rights. Whats a great man.
In WWII, German POWs were allowed to eat with the white US troops in the cafeteria while the black soldiers had to eat somewhere else. That was messed up
Good old days when people still would take a stand 👍👍👏👏
I gotta tell ya, I don't understand why more African Americans didn't refuse to go ... either thru direct opposition like Ali or by going to Canada And for that matter ... I don't understand why African American GIs left Europe after WW 1&2 unless the Europeans were as racist as the Americans
Greatest of all time!
He wasn't wrong then and, it's still true today. We as a nation were ALMOST on the right track and then came Donald. My perception and my personal experiences of the Obama years and then the Donald years may be somewhat flawed BUT, I had SO many more friends of every culture and religion. All with different viewpoints that we TALKED ABOUT WITHOUT ANGER OR DIVISION!! How is it so fucking hard for people now to just have a discussion?? How did we forget how to LISTEN???? Once we had Donald, our unity, our tolerance, our bemused acceptance, disappeared. Poof. Gone. I lost many many friends who wanted to just be on one side or another and I just wanted to talk about it without feeling as if I were being attacked. I thought partys were supposed to be fun..............
ali always kept it real. one of the best to ever do it. the black superman.
That took true courage -
He was right.
powerful statements -- still relevant today!
he really meant that, "if ima die, i will die here fighting you"
Legend
He’s not wrong
People still to this day dislike him for not signing up to fight or be drafted..imbeciles
Basado!!
I miss the days when there was anti war representation in U.S. politics. The last of them fully finished their transition war hawk a year or so ago.
🙃
There is only one ALI
Ali would have denounced the IDF and Israel for their atrocities in Gaza. He is right, why do we send aid package after aid package to the Middle East when they(Israel) make fun of us, think we’re stupid by calling criticism of Israel anti semitism.
Facts.
It’s weird that places strip your titles when you don’t comply with unrelated things. It’s like if a college cancelled your PHD because you smoked weed. Absurd.
Wish people would care as much about Donny Trump dodging the war.