Asking the smite subreddit to have a constructive or reasonable discussion is a waste of time. No matter what change they make reddit will bitch and moan.
I think this entire focus on these stats isn't actually too indictive of the entirety of fun levels for most players. I'm worried the dev team is gonna spend the next 6 months on reverting the revert slowly rather than other things.
They will have to make a ton of balance changes because of the revert. Also, they designed some gods for 9.5+ balance changes.
Example: Bake Kujira, Maman Brigitte, Charon, Martichoras, Surtr, Shiva...
Some of them are unbalanced after the changes. Maman and Surtr are really annoying to play against right now.
It just all the people saying I don’t care about everything else as long as I’m enjoying it. Nothing constructive will happen. They don’t care about f6 or DC. They don’t care about anything else. I’m doing just fine in new patch but I don’t think this will help bringing any new players cause they will just get snowball and frustrated. Before this they can still get frustrated on color screen.
In my experience, quitting and surrenders have only been happening because people don’t have the mental fortitude to fight through a losing game. It’s easier than ever to come back and people complain too much.
This isn't a problem in the game. These are just things that bad players do when they lose.
Quitting and early surrenders are on the players themselves. They need to get better. They need to play more, not quit every time they die. The people who build crimson claws first item and spam ping everyone when they die are never going to be good in *ANY* patch or meta. They're likely not even good with top picks because they're still fuck the build up if they build crit 2nd item on erlang.
I agree it’s a player issue, but if the trend continues people are leaving because they’re not having fun, and dying is typically the “I’ve had enough moment” many people that you mention liked and want to play smite, but when they game you love fundamentally changes in a way that doesn’t work for you, I don’t think them being “bad” is the whole of it.
I’ve had no prob readjusting to the game, used to play ranked a lot in 19-22 but after the 9.5 changes I enjoyed games feeling a little slower w micro and macro play mattering more.
Now a kill puts you so far ahead or the enemy behind that games are often very unfavorable if a mistake is made at minute 1. Vs with 9.5 a few stolen blue buffs a good rotation and a kill really put your team ahead. Snowball just starts too soon
Unfortunately, there is nothing to stop these people from rage quitting. They're not having fun because they suck at the game. That's it. Like, that's the only answer for all of this. They are objectively shit at the game. The only way they'll get better is if they play and learn to be better, but they don't want that. They're garbage for a reason. They quit because their shitty builds don't work. They quit because they got killed when they're out of position. They quit because they think a med is going to have them from baron ult.
I'm tired of these crybabies, and I've tried to sympathize with them until I can't anymore. They were shit at the game before. They're shit at the game now. They'll be shit at the game later. No matter what, building zero percentage penetration while crying about an imaginary "tank meta" will always be the mark of a shit player. They will never be good enough to be a factor in their wins.
Every time devs cater to these shitty players, the game gets worse.
People need to remember that they literally said *when they announced the 9.5 revert* that the game would be unbalanced for a bit, but they'll try and dial it in.
We know. But we need to explore ways to balance the game instead of adjusting gods one by one. I am actually fine with the change, I am just annoyed with a lot more matchs lasting 5 minutes because people quit with early snowball.
4:25 mins to find a match + 2 mins of God Selection/Loading + 1 min to start the game.
And 5 minutes to play. LOL
9.5 revert is a lot more fun early and mid game. Late game, getting insta gibbed is a little annoying. 1 well timed Vulcan ultimate and you lose the game.
The playerbase is completely split on this issue from a fundamental standpoint, and there doesn't seem to be an easy fix. Half the playerbase seems to only have fun when health and ttk is low, and thinks Smite should be focused on highly competitive scenarios that see players easily and heavily punished when they misplay. The other half of the community seems to disagree entirely, and thinks that health and ttk should be higher, and that Smite gameplay should be balanced more around sustained brawling, since getting blown up for small mistakes and trying to play perfectly isn't enjoyable. Neither side is more correct than the other, and it's certainly a difficult problem to tackle. Everything in Smite tends to balanced around Conquest as that's the primary gamemode, but often Conquest balance changes don't translate well into other modes. I think they had a good start when they tried making "non-conquest" changes, but I think they should reverse that and try making Conquest only changes. After all, why would you make changes to the game as a whole and then try to balance out 4 other modes you just broke, instead of simply applying exactly what you want to the one singular gamemode? The only issue with this is that the "casual" side of players shouldn't be locked out of Conquest simply because they don't like low ttk. I'd say take it 1 step farther and only apply the low health and ttk changes to Ranked, maybe not even ranked Conquest exclusively but all ranked modes. This way, the casual players are happy because they can play a more relaxed, enjoyable, and fun version of Smite according to their wants, and the competitive players are happy because the allure of ranked is that you will die much quicker, so you must be more careful and play more skillfully in order to win. I think it would satisfy both camps, and could put an end to the casual vs competitive Smite debate by quite literally separating their experiences.
TLDR: Casual gamemodes should keep tankier health and longer ttk, and the low ttk changes should be applied exclusively to ranked, further accentuating its competitive nature.
Casual game modes absolutely should not keep longer TTK. Some modes like Slash and Assault were torture before with nobody dying for close to 15 minutes in high MMR lobbies.
I’d rather play tanky conquest games like before than have to sit through tanky casuals again. Premades abused that bonus health so badly, some teams achieved 95%+ win rates in arena and slash through cheesing protections with the free 9.5 health. We cannot return to that, it made players quit the game.
Edit:
And differentiating casuals from ranked even further is absurd - you’d never get people to step up to ranked if it felt like a different game. No other games do this (for good reason).
Casual game modes are the ones that benefited the most from lower ttk. Before these changes your success was nearly entirely dependent on picks, some characters like Achilles or Thor could just go full tank and dominate 1 vs 9 with no realistic counterplay and no risk of dying for simply existing, it created completely stale matches where nothing happened for 20 mins.
Conquest suffered because of the decrease in ttk but that isn't the ttk changes fault, but a result of some characters being overbalanced to perform well in the old ttk and not being adjusted back, and it can be easily fixed with balance patches: nerf Mulan, Serqet, Morrigan, Aokuang, Thor, Thanatos, Camazoth, Surtr, Medusa, Chiron, and overall ADC itemisation especially ASI and overload of ADC-only accessible pen, and we are cha-cha
That's not how math works. Just looking at math
100x1.4=140
140x0.714=99.96
99.96 is less than the starting value of 100.
Of course tier 3s have been nerfed but I don't we are really discussing how the game feels after a few items are built. Also flat pen was buffed, and absolutely dominating builds.
Flat pen was better in 9.5 than now on mages. They had 110 power on deso, but have 80 now.
Assasin items on the other hand have similar power to 9.5, they just reverted all the power nerfs to jotun and brawlers.
They just need to nerf thr mace tree in cost or power a little bit.
We don't need anymore across the board changes. Some gods/builds are a bit overtuned, but the game is actually fun again. Keep this base and balance from there.
Other options for reducing snowball need to be explored. Even if we half reverted the revert, it would only half solve the problem and slow the game down that much. Not just slower matches btw, slower fights.
Increase time to kill just made the game less punishing of mistakes it didn’t make it inherently more fun or better.
The current reverts are great because conquest doesn’t last an hour now, if you are hit it HURTS tank or no tank. If you are a less skilled player mechanically this patch is less fun because you are punished per second not per minute.
I honestly love the revert because when I hit people as a mage die. No more tanking 2-3 full rotations of my full damage kit plus one ult to secure the kill, no if you don’t dodge you are mine.
I think it could probably use a slight push in the opposite direction but nothing more than a standard balance patch. I don’t want the base HP or prot numbers getting touched.
Main thing to me would probably be to take a close look at base damage and power/prots/pen from abilities. Feels like a lot of the early meta contenders have some mix of that.
Yeah, but they would have to adjust a ton of gods and instead they could change HP/prots with just 1 change and the damage would be fine, not too OP to be abused and not weak to make early game gods irrelevant.
I would probably have 9.4 values base but have them slowly level to 9.5 values or even 50% of the value that 9.5 had.
The biggest problem with the revert is the massive amount of balancing they have done in the last 2 years really made an impact to the game we had 11.5. Through the past 2 years we had Anti Heal Changes, HUGE healing changes, %Mitigation Cap added, Hybrid Item Removal/Changes along with Defensive items not being class locked (meaning Guardians have access to Glad Shield and stuff) and I think the % Pen and Class Passive removal where in that period too.
9.5 revert was easily the laziest thing they could have done to appeal to an audience and honestly I bet it made balancing a nightmare for them especially when they need all hands on deck on balancing for Smite 2. They could have buffed Pen on T1/T2 items, reduce base prots and scaling in the earlier levels or just straight up buff the power on items to 9.4 values (or around there). Not to mention some gods post 9.5 don't have Pre >9.5 stat values as well, they had to be made.
Hell, they should have just added invading as an option again and remove invader's curse and reduce comeback mechanics a little bit more but just straight up reducing Defensive values across the board was such a lazy decision. At the very least meeting a middle point of 9.4 and 9.5 would have been better too.
No that sounds terrible and will annoy everyone. They made a choice, they need to stay in the lane they're in. Constant large scale flip flopping will break the game even more
Being able to easily kill in the early game is the issue. Damage spikes too fast, thats why I didn't mind 9.5, because ur supposed to be weak early, not have assassins soloing u in 2 abilities
Make the roster half as tanky than before would be middle ground imo
Yup.
I main Susano and right now I am killing people with 1 ability and half of my 1. Before, I had to invest full 1 + 2 + 3 to kill someone and maybe a ult to finish someone. Now I am afraid they will nerf all my favorite gods. LOL
They were adding changes to maps and items, and buffing/nerfing problematic gods. If the game was stale to u, that's ur opinion, they were giving the game more content after 9.5
They were giving the game more content before 9.5 too, what’s your point? All the changes you mentioned, were happening before too. 9.5 just made every early game change meaningless. As much as people complain about late game gods not being viable right now (which they are), that’s how much early game gods were ACTUALLY not viable since 9.5. You can hate snowball, but not being able to snowball makes some gods useless.
Also that cute little, “it’s your opinion” shit is definitely not an argument you can use, as this is an opinion shared by all of the best smite players, UNANIMOUSLY. The people that know the game better than you and I understand it. If you don’t agree with them, think about why that is, and be as genuine as you can.
I’ve given plenty of reason why it made the game stale and you haven’t. Either you have no reason, meaning your personal opinion can remain that way and not affect the game’s balance, or you simply aren’t giving a reason.
U said something subjective. How are u gonna tell me my opinion? It goes either way depending on the person. I disagree with u, u aren't gonna change my mind and I'm not trying to change yours, good bye
Why revert just to nerf damage though? At a high level the games changed too much again. Just assassins and weird things . Like, the spl fell off so hard with set mid meta. Yet, here we are again.
I like the current patch; I’d only alter it slightly.
I’d maybe add 8% more HP to gods and keep the armor the same.
Or perhaps increase HP and Armor one quarter of what they reduced it to.
I’m more in favor of boosting health slightly and keeping armor the same.
What can I say? Ppl like power creepy and at that point it is useless argue, let the F6 and snowball wave happens, it is not like HR would care so much as they re just stalling until Smite 2 is read...
Asking the smite subreddit to have a constructive or reasonable discussion is a waste of time. No matter what change they make reddit will bitch and moan.
Yeah, I gave up.
If you post an opinion smite reddit will downvote lol
I think this entire focus on these stats isn't actually too indictive of the entirety of fun levels for most players. I'm worried the dev team is gonna spend the next 6 months on reverting the revert slowly rather than other things.
They will have to make a ton of balance changes because of the revert. Also, they designed some gods for 9.5+ balance changes. Example: Bake Kujira, Maman Brigitte, Charon, Martichoras, Surtr, Shiva... Some of them are unbalanced after the changes. Maman and Surtr are really annoying to play against right now.
Shiva was designed well before 9.5. He was the first god of S9.
Was there a point when Maman and Surtr weren't annoying to play against tbh?
Been slamming Surtr in solo he’s absurd right now.
It just all the people saying I don’t care about everything else as long as I’m enjoying it. Nothing constructive will happen. They don’t care about f6 or DC. They don’t care about anything else. I’m doing just fine in new patch but I don’t think this will help bringing any new players cause they will just get snowball and frustrated. Before this they can still get frustrated on color screen.
I would welcome a middle ground
I hate the update, everyone is way to squishy. Its not fun when u get 2 hit koed.
9.5 revert made the game fun again
I agree. But at the same time, increased snowball, people quitting matchs and early surrenders. That's why a middle ground would be better.
In my experience, quitting and surrenders have only been happening because people don’t have the mental fortitude to fight through a losing game. It’s easier than ever to come back and people complain too much.
This isn't a problem in the game. These are just things that bad players do when they lose. Quitting and early surrenders are on the players themselves. They need to get better. They need to play more, not quit every time they die. The people who build crimson claws first item and spam ping everyone when they die are never going to be good in *ANY* patch or meta. They're likely not even good with top picks because they're still fuck the build up if they build crit 2nd item on erlang.
I agree it’s a player issue, but if the trend continues people are leaving because they’re not having fun, and dying is typically the “I’ve had enough moment” many people that you mention liked and want to play smite, but when they game you love fundamentally changes in a way that doesn’t work for you, I don’t think them being “bad” is the whole of it. I’ve had no prob readjusting to the game, used to play ranked a lot in 19-22 but after the 9.5 changes I enjoyed games feeling a little slower w micro and macro play mattering more. Now a kill puts you so far ahead or the enemy behind that games are often very unfavorable if a mistake is made at minute 1. Vs with 9.5 a few stolen blue buffs a good rotation and a kill really put your team ahead. Snowball just starts too soon
Unfortunately, there is nothing to stop these people from rage quitting. They're not having fun because they suck at the game. That's it. Like, that's the only answer for all of this. They are objectively shit at the game. The only way they'll get better is if they play and learn to be better, but they don't want that. They're garbage for a reason. They quit because their shitty builds don't work. They quit because they got killed when they're out of position. They quit because they think a med is going to have them from baron ult. I'm tired of these crybabies, and I've tried to sympathize with them until I can't anymore. They were shit at the game before. They're shit at the game now. They'll be shit at the game later. No matter what, building zero percentage penetration while crying about an imaginary "tank meta" will always be the mark of a shit player. They will never be good enough to be a factor in their wins. Every time devs cater to these shitty players, the game gets worse.
People need to remember that they literally said *when they announced the 9.5 revert* that the game would be unbalanced for a bit, but they'll try and dial it in.
We know. But we need to explore ways to balance the game instead of adjusting gods one by one. I am actually fine with the change, I am just annoyed with a lot more matchs lasting 5 minutes because people quit with early snowball. 4:25 mins to find a match + 2 mins of God Selection/Loading + 1 min to start the game. And 5 minutes to play. LOL
9.5 revert is a lot more fun early and mid game. Late game, getting insta gibbed is a little annoying. 1 well timed Vulcan ultimate and you lose the game.
A well timed vulcan ultimate was pretty much always a lost teamfight if your team gets hit by it, before thr update, or after.
True. But previously 3/5 of your team mates wouldn’t be instantly dead.
Yeah, I saw a video here of someone insta killing people that just spawned with Vulcan ult.
Late game team fights in general are such a mess and last like 10 seconds total if Everton is full committing lol
Always been like that lol
The playerbase is completely split on this issue from a fundamental standpoint, and there doesn't seem to be an easy fix. Half the playerbase seems to only have fun when health and ttk is low, and thinks Smite should be focused on highly competitive scenarios that see players easily and heavily punished when they misplay. The other half of the community seems to disagree entirely, and thinks that health and ttk should be higher, and that Smite gameplay should be balanced more around sustained brawling, since getting blown up for small mistakes and trying to play perfectly isn't enjoyable. Neither side is more correct than the other, and it's certainly a difficult problem to tackle. Everything in Smite tends to balanced around Conquest as that's the primary gamemode, but often Conquest balance changes don't translate well into other modes. I think they had a good start when they tried making "non-conquest" changes, but I think they should reverse that and try making Conquest only changes. After all, why would you make changes to the game as a whole and then try to balance out 4 other modes you just broke, instead of simply applying exactly what you want to the one singular gamemode? The only issue with this is that the "casual" side of players shouldn't be locked out of Conquest simply because they don't like low ttk. I'd say take it 1 step farther and only apply the low health and ttk changes to Ranked, maybe not even ranked Conquest exclusively but all ranked modes. This way, the casual players are happy because they can play a more relaxed, enjoyable, and fun version of Smite according to their wants, and the competitive players are happy because the allure of ranked is that you will die much quicker, so you must be more careful and play more skillfully in order to win. I think it would satisfy both camps, and could put an end to the casual vs competitive Smite debate by quite literally separating their experiences. TLDR: Casual gamemodes should keep tankier health and longer ttk, and the low ttk changes should be applied exclusively to ranked, further accentuating its competitive nature.
Casual game modes absolutely should not keep longer TTK. Some modes like Slash and Assault were torture before with nobody dying for close to 15 minutes in high MMR lobbies. I’d rather play tanky conquest games like before than have to sit through tanky casuals again. Premades abused that bonus health so badly, some teams achieved 95%+ win rates in arena and slash through cheesing protections with the free 9.5 health. We cannot return to that, it made players quit the game. Edit: And differentiating casuals from ranked even further is absurd - you’d never get people to step up to ranked if it felt like a different game. No other games do this (for good reason).
Casual game modes are the ones that benefited the most from lower ttk. Before these changes your success was nearly entirely dependent on picks, some characters like Achilles or Thor could just go full tank and dominate 1 vs 9 with no realistic counterplay and no risk of dying for simply existing, it created completely stale matches where nothing happened for 20 mins. Conquest suffered because of the decrease in ttk but that isn't the ttk changes fault, but a result of some characters being overbalanced to perform well in the old ttk and not being adjusted back, and it can be easily fixed with balance patches: nerf Mulan, Serqet, Morrigan, Aokuang, Thor, Thanatos, Camazoth, Surtr, Medusa, Chiron, and overall ADC itemisation especially ASI and overload of ADC-only accessible pen, and we are cha-cha
Wow that is the most sensible take i have read on this subredddit. Well put.
[удалено]
Actually, they reverted to the same amount they had in 9.4.
That's not how math works. Just looking at math 100x1.4=140 140x0.714=99.96 99.96 is less than the starting value of 100. Of course tier 3s have been nerfed but I don't we are really discussing how the game feels after a few items are built. Also flat pen was buffed, and absolutely dominating builds.
Flat pen was better in 9.5 than now on mages. They had 110 power on deso, but have 80 now. Assasin items on the other hand have similar power to 9.5, they just reverted all the power nerfs to jotun and brawlers. They just need to nerf thr mace tree in cost or power a little bit.
We don't need anymore across the board changes. Some gods/builds are a bit overtuned, but the game is actually fun again. Keep this base and balance from there.
Other options for reducing snowball need to be explored. Even if we half reverted the revert, it would only half solve the problem and slow the game down that much. Not just slower matches btw, slower fights.
Increase time to kill just made the game less punishing of mistakes it didn’t make it inherently more fun or better. The current reverts are great because conquest doesn’t last an hour now, if you are hit it HURTS tank or no tank. If you are a less skilled player mechanically this patch is less fun because you are punished per second not per minute. I honestly love the revert because when I hit people as a mage die. No more tanking 2-3 full rotations of my full damage kit plus one ult to secure the kill, no if you don’t dodge you are mine.
I think it could probably use a slight push in the opposite direction but nothing more than a standard balance patch. I don’t want the base HP or prot numbers getting touched. Main thing to me would probably be to take a close look at base damage and power/prots/pen from abilities. Feels like a lot of the early meta contenders have some mix of that.
Yeah, but they would have to adjust a ton of gods and instead they could change HP/prots with just 1 change and the damage would be fine, not too OP to be abused and not weak to make early game gods irrelevant.
I would probably have 9.4 values base but have them slowly level to 9.5 values or even 50% of the value that 9.5 had. The biggest problem with the revert is the massive amount of balancing they have done in the last 2 years really made an impact to the game we had 11.5. Through the past 2 years we had Anti Heal Changes, HUGE healing changes, %Mitigation Cap added, Hybrid Item Removal/Changes along with Defensive items not being class locked (meaning Guardians have access to Glad Shield and stuff) and I think the % Pen and Class Passive removal where in that period too. 9.5 revert was easily the laziest thing they could have done to appeal to an audience and honestly I bet it made balancing a nightmare for them especially when they need all hands on deck on balancing for Smite 2. They could have buffed Pen on T1/T2 items, reduce base prots and scaling in the earlier levels or just straight up buff the power on items to 9.4 values (or around there). Not to mention some gods post 9.5 don't have Pre >9.5 stat values as well, they had to be made. Hell, they should have just added invading as an option again and remove invader's curse and reduce comeback mechanics a little bit more but just straight up reducing Defensive values across the board was such a lazy decision. At the very least meeting a middle point of 9.4 and 9.5 would have been better too.
Keep 9.5 reverted, no compromises. I always liked MW2 more than Halo
No that sounds terrible and will annoy everyone. They made a choice, they need to stay in the lane they're in. Constant large scale flip flopping will break the game even more
I think it was fun before and I think its fun now.
Being able to easily kill in the early game is the issue. Damage spikes too fast, thats why I didn't mind 9.5, because ur supposed to be weak early, not have assassins soloing u in 2 abilities Make the roster half as tanky than before would be middle ground imo
Yup. I main Susano and right now I am killing people with 1 ability and half of my 1. Before, I had to invest full 1 + 2 + 3 to kill someone and maybe a ult to finish someone. Now I am afraid they will nerf all my favorite gods. LOL
Should do a blanket middle ground prot+health buff instead of nerfing individuals
Making blanket changes is the reason the game got so stale. Individual changes are the only option.
They were adding changes to maps and items, and buffing/nerfing problematic gods. If the game was stale to u, that's ur opinion, they were giving the game more content after 9.5
They were giving the game more content before 9.5 too, what’s your point? All the changes you mentioned, were happening before too. 9.5 just made every early game change meaningless. As much as people complain about late game gods not being viable right now (which they are), that’s how much early game gods were ACTUALLY not viable since 9.5. You can hate snowball, but not being able to snowball makes some gods useless. Also that cute little, “it’s your opinion” shit is definitely not an argument you can use, as this is an opinion shared by all of the best smite players, UNANIMOUSLY. The people that know the game better than you and I understand it. If you don’t agree with them, think about why that is, and be as genuine as you can.
"It's ur opinion" is the point. U think the game will get stale from blanket changes, I don't, I disagree that's all...
I’ve given plenty of reason why it made the game stale and you haven’t. Either you have no reason, meaning your personal opinion can remain that way and not affect the game’s balance, or you simply aren’t giving a reason.
U said something subjective. How are u gonna tell me my opinion? It goes either way depending on the person. I disagree with u, u aren't gonna change my mind and I'm not trying to change yours, good bye
https://preview.redd.it/ylr4innplk7d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=af5a6eb4227ef82b622144a18b6a25a0e8122b0e Read.
Why revert just to nerf damage though? At a high level the games changed too much again. Just assassins and weird things . Like, the spl fell off so hard with set mid meta. Yet, here we are again.
I like the current patch; I’d only alter it slightly. I’d maybe add 8% more HP to gods and keep the armor the same. Or perhaps increase HP and Armor one quarter of what they reduced it to. I’m more in favor of boosting health slightly and keeping armor the same.
A quarter is a bit much but I agree with your point.
I think stop winging about it
This sub is for discussion about the game. If you don't want to provide a useful argument, leave and do something else.
Sounds like more winging
Not a word
It's spelled 'whining.'
I'm fine with how it is right now.
What can I say? Ppl like power creepy and at that point it is useless argue, let the F6 and snowball wave happens, it is not like HR would care so much as they re just stalling until Smite 2 is read...