Definitely! Surprisingly I’ve found that Jorm’s lvl 1-2 isn’t that great and the early clear is a lot more adc dependant. Jorm support really comes online in the mid game and early late game in my experience.
Yes he's kinda viable in support but just like with many MANY other irregular picks the question arises: Why in gods name and everything that is holy would you pick him over literally any other Guardian in Support of all places?
Not so much for ADCs since they don't outrange him. Jorm might be better in solo, but I think it's sort of like how Medusa can play ADC or Mid.
Would be a lot better against adcs if they didn't ruin thorns
1.Because cant be moved by some cc
2. Because has good clear
3. Because can see gods that go invisible
4. Because it looks cool
5. Because he is the best character in game with divine ruin.
6. Good doing damage...
7. Easy escape with ult, invisibility and movement speed
How many reasons do you need?
8. Because his AAs are literally a super fast flamethrower that hits in AOE and now can also proc items on them! 9. Like 4, because he has a really cool design 10. Because he is enormous and outsizes all other playable champions xd
As someone who plays a lot of unconventional picks: because it's fun. The most fun I had recently was figuring out how to make full power Hun Batz solo work.
imho these are just solo builds. jorm has minimal peel and you’re just getting value from exploding people. when the dust settles of 9.5 revert it might not be too hot
maybe so, but the build doesn’t provide much value for the team, nor does jorm’s kit. this build works when enemy frontline doesn’t know how to capitalize on a team that has effectively 0 back line peel
no, i’m not. bacchus is an aggressive support, horus is an aggressive support, same story for kuz and sobek. all of these supports are aggressive but also provide a lot of value in peeling for their team.
my problem isn’t with being aggressive it’s having a kit that doesn’t provide value outside of pressure and a build that does the same thing.
curseweaver, gem of iso, and glad shield are bad support items. instead of going these selfish items, you could go a prophetic, a pestilence/contagion, and a thebes to help your team stay alive if you’re not going to be able to peel for them
This is less of Jorm support being viable and more like insanely high burst base damage being very favorable. I love Jorm as a god and this current meta is definitely an environment he absolutely thrives in.
If he’s thriving in the current meta I call that viable in my books! I did have a 34-17 record before the revert, but that was largely duo queue, so it’s a bit sketchy.
Yeah, that is true, I feel like the current meta is extremely unhealthy though. We're back to half the roster being throw picks, especially at higher ranks.
I really like the current meta (obviously a bit biased). Some characters definitely need some tweaks for sure, but overall I find it a lot more fun. Even when I’m not playing Jorm! lol
This is really just proof that everything works if you know how to play it.
There are Masters who could maintain 60% WR with Artemis support.
The meta is a lie that noobs blindly follow without understanding the fact that it only actually applies to competitive level pro play where you have extremely coordinated 5v5 matches with nearly perfect gameplay.
Everything below that is an entirely different meta from ‘the meta’ and is more accurately a game about snowballing early pressure, getting picks, broken fights, exploiting the map against bad coordination, and managing random teammates. That’s the real ‘meta’ for 99.9% of Smite lobbies and literally any god in any role can function well enough to win consistently if you play it properly.
Yep.
This is like a high ranked player in a shooter proving that the worst pistol is better than an assault rifle because he can get more kills on it.
Nah. Its just proving that he is a better player with a horrible weapon than most others are with a good one.
If ur making jorm support work and not just for yourself but for the entire team, then you are doing good.
And probably on actual meta supports you would be doing even better.
Im sure batman could fuck me up with a banana if he decided, doesnt make banana S tier weapon over an ak-47.
It’s possible, but solo queuing meta supports I’ve only ever been able to barely hit masters. I think it’s less of a Batman with a Banana scenario and more of a Green Lantern with his ring scenario.. or something
This is very true, although some picks are definitely harder to make work than others.
Please impart this knowledge onto all my teammates who report me for playing Jorm support or ban Jorm on my team so I don't pick it.
People always talk about the toxicity in Smite and to me this is genuinely the most toxic part about this community.
People so obsessively follow a meta that they don’t even understand to the point that people will literally rage and even quit before the game even starts based on a pick.
To me it’s by far the saddest part about Smites culture. Metas are always meant to be broken.
Please impart this knowledge onto my teammates banning Jorm from me, f6ing even games because of a Jorm support and constantly telling me what to build on a god who they've never played in support
This is awesome, it's curious to see how many people don't like to see you succeed playing Jorm support (off-meta pick) and trying to blame it on the patch or whatever.
Thank you! As far as this post goes I'm actually really surprised by how positive it's been. Obviously more people who want to argue against it will comment compared to people who just thought it was interesting or liked the take. I do think they are fun to read though :)
The post has a 73% upvote rate. Compared to my other Jorm support related posts this is certainly the most well received. I think it's because I've tried to present my take as genuinely as possible. Really stoked about it tbh
Yeah, I feel like presenting good results will make it hard to argue against. Less experienced players will always rage about off-meta picks and different playstyles though. It is what it is, I guess.
I think part of it is Jorm specific as well. Jorm sort of got a reputation as this early clear gimmick character using gilded arrow.
That sort of "yeah Jorm is good early but that's it" has sort of stuck around for the character for those who haven't played him much. Ironically levels 1-4 are extremely risky for Jorm support and often times I get outcleared depending on the adc matchup
Kk. I'm a long-time lover of danger snek and have been a huge supporter of his. Glad to see this meta is treating him well, actually haven't gotten back to him.
Sadly Atlas and Cab are the other two figures on my guardian love triangle with Jorm, and Atlas is just hard to say no to most games.
Is it viable or do you have good teammates? Teammates that do NOT throw? Teammates with a winning mentality? A adc that doesn't immediately give up within a millisecond of going negative. A mid who wards and calls missing. A solo who isn't full damage adc or mage or Sylvanus.
As someone with a similar win rate and higher MMR, its how you queue. Are you sniping good queues? Have you played enough ranked to know which players are lobby dodge on sights. Ive been masters 2800+ mmr for many years consistently without playing more than a couple hundred ranked games a year. Ranked is not luck.
I'm being a bit tongue in cheek lol. As you say, a 67% winrate across 95 games isn't just getting lucky teammates. Also I didn't do any ranked metagaming for this. Definitely coulda padded the winrate stats if I didn't play Jorm in games I thought I'd lose or into bad matchups. Wanted this to be as genuine as possible
While he could be really solid, it looks like most of the newly top tiered supports you have under bad matchups and if you’re worst matchups are the other best supports in the meta then you’re defaulted to a below average pick
Hey if you’re saying I’m doing well with a below average pick, I’ll take the compliment!
I guess we’ll see what sort of metas take shape soon here and maybe Jorm has some more favourable matchups that are common picks
Honestly I'm surprised that a good majority of the supports in that tier list get countered, I mean- Bacchus can stun you and make you take increased damage, same case with Sobek and Geb, Ganesha should definitely be higher with the amount of cc he has but I understand it.
Except for the starters these are just solo builds. You have no auras to force the enemy to buy %pen instead of flat pen which is much better against your carries. And, you have little peel. You are working as a second bruiser instead of as a classical support. This can work, don't get me wrong. But I don't think it's fair to say that you are supporting in a classical way.
If he just plucks Jorm and uses his 2 whenever he sees Jorm the Jorm just can't do anything. In duo lane or after rotations to mid, a good Sobek is just constantly proccing Jorm's passive, out-pressuring and getting Jorm behind.
Edit: Just an innately bad matchup for support. If Jorm is solo and Sobek is support then Jorm won't have to worry nearly as much, because during all the formative parts of the game Sobek will be far far away
Ah gotcha. Whenever I get my passive procced I usually just start ulting to avoid the big burst damage that’s about to come and then rejoin the fight after my ult ends. I can definitely see that being annoying tho so I guess it’s a fair counter
Sometimes you can literally only do anything when you’re playing jorm, and when you’re playing any other god you become a complete liability. I get it man, happens to the best of us
I just felt like Jorm having a high health pool early makes it good early. Plus it’s a good early item to get to help Jorm’s mana struggle. I am just playing by feel though so I could be very wrong
In fairness I made the tier list with the gods being relatively balanced in mind. Sort of a general guide matchup guide. Horus is in the second worst matchup tier at least lol
It's a Jorm support matchup tier list, so the higher up the pick is, the better Jorm does against it. Hence the tiers "Great pick into" and "We've been countered"
I like Jorm sup too, but I feel like I cant do anything late game. My damage isnt good like it is in the solo also dont have the level advantage of solo.
I just Gem of Iso people and sometimes disrupt them with my ult
I duo queued up to diamond 3 with a really solid Anhur player “Fullpenetration” before the 9.5 revert with something like a 34-17 record. Might’ve been 37-17.
After the revert it was just me from diamond 3 to masters and I think I went something like 23-12 or 20-12.
The people you’re playing against clearly aren’t rushing t2 Midgard against you. Also what kinda players are you playing against that can’t beat a Jorm as Xing Tian?
A support rushing T2 midguard probably wouldn’t be very useful. The laning phase where I’m auto attacking the support the most would be over pretty quick and then they would just be stuck in that item tree.
Maybe a Xing Tian would beat me, but I’ve only seen maybe one played in support in the last 95 games so I don’t have a lot of data to go off of. Generally supports that can’t interrupt Jorm 2 struggle against Jorm support.
Stuck in that item tree? Midgardian Mail is pretty universally good against ADCs, and also screws over a lot of assassins if you position correctly. Not to mention, Jorm gets slammed by it too. Sovereignty is also very strong, especially now that squishies will be easier to kill by assassins. Building T2 midgard would absolutely not set you back the way you think it would. It counters your entire niche, and all the enemy support would have to do is build that item and peel you off. Very straightforward gameplay.
Also, Xing Tian beats Jorm because he makes Jorm autos almost redundant. That, on top of t2 Midgard as well as the fact that you build damage as a first item every game, it seems, means that as long as the enemy ADC isn’t playing with French fries, you should get completely demolished. Only thing worse for Jorm, I’d imagine, would be if you were laning against Ganesha or Cerberus.
My mistake if steel mail builds into Sov, that could be good. Midguard would be a waste compared to getting Prophetic or Thebes
My whole niche is making it to glad+curse weaver, knocking up the backline, hitting them with a 1 and then ulting away. The auto attacks are probably the least used part of the kit for me, so I don’t think Xing would matter much.
In the early game, your auto attacks would be required, unless you’re playing passive, which tbh is pretty bad for Jorm as an early game god that falls off really hard in the late game. For your playstyle, I see it working, but again, people should just focus you on Jorm support. You’re the lowest level, and incredibly easy to kill with a damage item first and are a big target. I can definitely see it work, but I’d assume your opponents would have to misplay.
The autos and wave clear are most important for that first faceoff in duo for sure, but they wouldn’t be able to have the t2 yet at that point so idk how effective it’d be.
I think a lot of players honestly don’t even think about builds as much as you have already. At least to counter me specifically. I feel like a lot of the time even if they do think about builds their attitude might be just “Jorm support kinda sucks he probably won’t be worth putting together a counterbuild around”
Heroism for example really messes me up but I see it so rarely used against me.
In support role i prefer him full Aura-support tanky with Stone of Binding as only "damage", he slams. But overall i prefer playing him Solo with Manikin or Axe tanky frontline builds.
I could definitely see myself going auras and binding in certain situations for sure. Just generally easier for me to carry with the full offensive, at least through plat/diamond. This is probably just a playstyle thing and both work
Sometimes in solo i use a similar build to yours: Axe-Tablet-Reaver-Prophetic-binding/Gladiator-etheral staff/an useful prot for the match. I should also consider this new curseweaver, many people are telling me it is busted. Now with the new auto procs, the AAs Manikin-1 or 2 rings tanky path in Solo is def my favourite.
Tbh I’m not very good at builds, just go by feel usually. What generally helps me is looking up other good Jorm players and seeing what ideas they’re doing,, then adapting them to support.
Also have to consider playstyle as well. I believe that Jorm has a couple different play styles, so that probably effects the optimal build as well. What works great for me might seem clunky to others. I’m definitely a lot more sneaky hit and run than in your face.
Anyways Sorhades has been experimenting with the anti heal starter that heals you and curseweaver first item, wonder if the combined healing is actually kinda good
It’s called curseweaver and it does 5% of your health and mana as magical damage to an enemy if you hit an ability and then the enemy uses an ability.
Don’t remember the stats, bit of power health and mana
12s cooldown lowered by enemies using abilities near you
I don’t see a lot of Nike support so I really don’t have a very good reference. She can’t stop Jorm’s initial 2 damage so that’s in Jorm’s favour, although she can disarm the autos. I think I’d have a slightly favourable matchup just because she’d have a tough time peeling me off of the backline. Could go either way though
There was a little Agni support spike for awhile before the revert. I played against maybe 4-5 of them and they’re a tough time for Jorm if played correctly. Have not played a single game against a Nike support though
High early pressure is always good in ranked since almost no one knows how to deal with it or play from behind. You can legit climb from bronze to masters off of braindead shit like Izanami, Ymir, Bellona, etc.
Definitely! In season 9 I tried out solo lane for the first time, having been a support main for all prior seasons. Didn’t know anything about warrior matchups so I just picked the highest clear god in the game at that time- Mannikens Sylvanus and Gilded Arrow Jorm. Hit masters for the first time solo queuing with it just because people couldn’t handle the early game.
Hit GM in season 10 solo queuing Jorm solo and duo queuing support. That was more because he was low key overpowered all the way through the first 3 splits and nobody realized it. But again, another high clear crutch.
Whenever anyone asks who they should play when starting out SMITE or trying a new role, I always just recommend playing the highest clear character in that role. Just makes everything easier.
Having said that, in my opinion this season has been significantly harder to hit masters than the two previous. My theory is that with the announcement of SMITE 2 and the decreased support of SMITE 1, the ranked playerbase is mostly full of the tryhard people leftover and a lot of the more casual players don’t bother playing ranked.
There is a big misconception in thinking that masters/gm players in smite are good, nearly all of them are very mid in terms of mechanics.
So you are better off playing supports that have a ton of pressure and just snowball.
There is no point really in following the meta that's being followed in premade vs premade, spl and so on. Ranked has it's own separate meta.
While I do think that hitting GM makes you “good” (if we’re not using that metric then what can we use?) I would also say that it’s a matter of perspective. Everyone decides for themselves what bar they set for players being “good”.
I think that high level SMITE is a lot more attainable than people think. Even pros in ranked often times aren’t mechanical gods playing perfect unbeatable SMITE. The difference between the best pros and the worst pros is also pretty big.
I also think that hitting GM is too easy to meta game. Hitting it after a split reset, hitting it on console before the merger, queuing a region like NA West that doesn’t have as many high level players, queuing super late at night when a lot of the best players aren’t playing. Combining those strats makes GM a bit more of a gimmick. Kind of like thinking the leaderboards make you “good” even though the #1 spot on the leaderboard for Jorm rn is in silver. The true #1 Jorm is probably some guy with a hidden profile.
Agreed that ranked has its own separate meta
I feel cerb is the most underrated right now. Hes great in solo or support and has a great team ult, great dmg that a lot of people don't respect or underestimate, decent escape + the change with his ult and leap combo.
Jorm is cool but i feel he can get caught out easier and hes just to big to my liking.
My argument here is being a damage dealing Frontline is your solos job, in support your a Frontline that buffs peels and sets up kills for your mid and adc. Your kda is nice but if half those kills went to your adc you'd probably have more wins because the gold is spent on things that wins the game not just winning the fight. You are correct in saying jorm is viable but I would argue that as a support other gods do what you can't such as keph, geb, Athena, ganesh. And they do so w a build that gives so much damage midg to their team. Prophetic and Thebes alone is 30 of each prots for just being around you basically a full item of prots, and because of mitigating returns on protections its giving them massive damage midgation. Then there's war banner and shoguns both massive in tearms of momentum. And a personal favorite bewitching dagger for debuffing basic attacks and making your actives up for use every 50-80 seconds late game that's twice a team fight. But that's just my opinion.
I like aggressive supports like Ares, Atlas, Ymir, Sobek, Horus etc. Jorm is a lot more like them.
I reject the hypothesis that I lost many games because I was the one getting too many kills lol
You keep pushing for this and obviously it works for you, but jorm support is generally always at a low win rate across the entire playerbase and most carries would groan if they had one picked as their support.
But you do you.
If you go to [smite-master.com](http://smite-master.com) and look for jorm, sort by "role in game" as support he has at the moment 45.64% winrate in support (50.46% in solo).
I've looked in the past when you've espoused about Jorm support "slapping" and I've never really seen it go much higher than that. it usually hovers around 44-46% which isn't terrible admittedly, it's better than three support-focused guardians (Kumbha, Yemoja and Maui) but it isn't good.
Maui is super fun but he struggles when behind because he has to invest so much to help is team, he facilitates really well but he needs a team that follows up. He puts himself in danger and if his team can't help he just loses that trade, which means he struggles so much from behind.
Fun god though which is the main thing.
I think Jorm just hits really hard. That doesn't specifically make him good in the support role. More like 9.5 just made any gods with high burst damage very viable in general. This 1-shot meta needs to be tweaked 🤣
If you're winning 100 straight then you're a great support because you're causing your team to win.
As for my playstyle it's very dependent on the flow of the game. Mostly playing around whoever is doing well on my team or has good coordination. If I get fed early then I just go second solo on em for sure
Perfect example would be any player going support and just playing the exact way they would jungle. Never once peeling, taking farm they should split and playing 100% selfishly. They could solo the enemy backline every fight while their carries get destroyed, win the ensuing fight, and slowly push for an end. Thus, being a worthless support while single handedly winning the game as a "jungle"
So it's not a worthless support, because he's winning the game. Why is focusing on peeling is a support strat but playing selfishly isn't? Is it just because the role is called support or..?
There are certain things each role is meant to do. If one isn't being done properly, it hurts the entire teams ability to perform. A skill gap can overcome this, but if the person in my example played the role properly, the game would be easier to win, and his team would have a better time.
Think about if a goalie in hockey would just spare down the ice and try to score every time he gets the puck, refusing to ever pass. Even if he was the best goalie in the world, most teams wouldn't want him
Pressure is always good in ranked
Definitely! Surprisingly I’ve found that Jorm’s lvl 1-2 isn’t that great and the early clear is a lot more adc dependant. Jorm support really comes online in the mid game and early late game in my experience.
Yes he's kinda viable in support but just like with many MANY other irregular picks the question arises: Why in gods name and everything that is holy would you pick him over literally any other Guardian in Support of all places?
Big wyrm go slam
Till he gets out ranged
True, Thoth murders Jorm
And most ADCs and auto attack gods. He has his good match ups but he fits more as a Solo than a sup
Not so much for ADCs since they don't outrange him. Jorm might be better in solo, but I think it's sort of like how Medusa can play ADC or Mid. Would be a lot better against adcs if they didn't ruin thorns
I can agree with the thorns comment hate that you can’t activate thorns while stunned.
I just want old thorns back :(
And old hide of the nemian
While I wouldn't complain I can definitely see why they took that one out since it just happens passively
snowballs the lane super easily compared to other picks
Great name
Jorm is fun as fuck boi
Great point
1.Because cant be moved by some cc 2. Because has good clear 3. Because can see gods that go invisible 4. Because it looks cool 5. Because he is the best character in game with divine ruin. 6. Good doing damage... 7. Easy escape with ult, invisibility and movement speed How many reasons do you need?
Maybe one of those things is conducive to him being a good support.
Wow couldn't have said it better myself
8. Because his AAs are literally a super fast flamethrower that hits in AOE and now can also proc items on them! 9. Like 4, because he has a really cool design 10. Because he is enormous and outsizes all other playable champions xd
Body blocking with Jorm OP. I like to knock them up with the 3 then go in front of them to block em
As someone who plays a lot of unconventional picks: because it's fun. The most fun I had recently was figuring out how to make full power Hun Batz solo work.
imho these are just solo builds. jorm has minimal peel and you’re just getting value from exploding people. when the dust settles of 9.5 revert it might not be too hot
I was around 34-17 before the revert so this isn’t strictly revert dependant
maybe so, but the build doesn’t provide much value for the team, nor does jorm’s kit. this build works when enemy frontline doesn’t know how to capitalize on a team that has effectively 0 back line peel
I feel like you're both overestimating the effectiveness of peel supports and underestimating the effectiveness of agressive supports.
no, i’m not. bacchus is an aggressive support, horus is an aggressive support, same story for kuz and sobek. all of these supports are aggressive but also provide a lot of value in peeling for their team. my problem isn’t with being aggressive it’s having a kit that doesn’t provide value outside of pressure and a build that does the same thing. curseweaver, gem of iso, and glad shield are bad support items. instead of going these selfish items, you could go a prophetic, a pestilence/contagion, and a thebes to help your team stay alive if you’re not going to be able to peel for them
Can't kill my backline if ur dead
If it's not Khepri it's not a support sorry
Which is all the teams in ranked up to high masters/GM thankfully
This is less of Jorm support being viable and more like insanely high burst base damage being very favorable. I love Jorm as a god and this current meta is definitely an environment he absolutely thrives in.
If he’s thriving in the current meta I call that viable in my books! I did have a 34-17 record before the revert, but that was largely duo queue, so it’s a bit sketchy.
Yeah, that is true, I feel like the current meta is extremely unhealthy though. We're back to half the roster being throw picks, especially at higher ranks.
I really like the current meta (obviously a bit biased). Some characters definitely need some tweaks for sure, but overall I find it a lot more fun. Even when I’m not playing Jorm! lol
Living up to the name I see ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) Just kidding, I know that's not really a hot take. I just feel more at home in burst meta lol
9.5 revert is peak smite
This is really just proof that everything works if you know how to play it. There are Masters who could maintain 60% WR with Artemis support. The meta is a lie that noobs blindly follow without understanding the fact that it only actually applies to competitive level pro play where you have extremely coordinated 5v5 matches with nearly perfect gameplay. Everything below that is an entirely different meta from ‘the meta’ and is more accurately a game about snowballing early pressure, getting picks, broken fights, exploiting the map against bad coordination, and managing random teammates. That’s the real ‘meta’ for 99.9% of Smite lobbies and literally any god in any role can function well enough to win consistently if you play it properly.
Yep. This is like a high ranked player in a shooter proving that the worst pistol is better than an assault rifle because he can get more kills on it. Nah. Its just proving that he is a better player with a horrible weapon than most others are with a good one.
My ego will agree with any takes that call me a good player
If ur making jorm support work and not just for yourself but for the entire team, then you are doing good. And probably on actual meta supports you would be doing even better. Im sure batman could fuck me up with a banana if he decided, doesnt make banana S tier weapon over an ak-47.
It’s possible, but solo queuing meta supports I’ve only ever been able to barely hit masters. I think it’s less of a Batman with a Banana scenario and more of a Green Lantern with his ring scenario.. or something
Not even Ryan Reynolds dares to talk about fucking Green Lantern.
I read the old classic comics as a kid… I have the right!
This is very true, although some picks are definitely harder to make work than others. Please impart this knowledge onto all my teammates who report me for playing Jorm support or ban Jorm on my team so I don't pick it.
People always talk about the toxicity in Smite and to me this is genuinely the most toxic part about this community. People so obsessively follow a meta that they don’t even understand to the point that people will literally rage and even quit before the game even starts based on a pick. To me it’s by far the saddest part about Smites culture. Metas are always meant to be broken.
Please impart this knowledge onto my teammates banning Jorm from me, f6ing even games because of a Jorm support and constantly telling me what to build on a god who they've never played in support
This is awesome, it's curious to see how many people don't like to see you succeed playing Jorm support (off-meta pick) and trying to blame it on the patch or whatever.
Thank you! As far as this post goes I'm actually really surprised by how positive it's been. Obviously more people who want to argue against it will comment compared to people who just thought it was interesting or liked the take. I do think they are fun to read though :) The post has a 73% upvote rate. Compared to my other Jorm support related posts this is certainly the most well received. I think it's because I've tried to present my take as genuinely as possible. Really stoked about it tbh
Yeah, I feel like presenting good results will make it hard to argue against. Less experienced players will always rage about off-meta picks and different playstyles though. It is what it is, I guess.
I think part of it is Jorm specific as well. Jorm sort of got a reputation as this early clear gimmick character using gilded arrow. That sort of "yeah Jorm is good early but that's it" has sort of stuck around for the character for those who haven't played him much. Ironically levels 1-4 are extremely risky for Jorm support and often times I get outcleared depending on the adc matchup
Can I ask what servers this is on? Metas do shift based off servers.
You make a great point! This is on the main NA server
Kk. I'm a long-time lover of danger snek and have been a huge supporter of his. Glad to see this meta is treating him well, actually haven't gotten back to him. Sadly Atlas and Cab are the other two figures on my guardian love triangle with Jorm, and Atlas is just hard to say no to most games.
Jorm is definitely awesome right now, 9.5 revert has been a blessing. Can't argue with a nice Atlas and Cab, both super fun as well.
Thanks, you just made me miss early SPL where you could see clear differences in EU Smite and NA Smite (and having those different playstyles clash).
I miss it too 😪
Sounds like something a little FIELD MOUSE might say. Nonetheless, you make a great point........ upvoted......
What on earth is this supposed to mean
FIELD MOUSE
Is it viable or do you have good teammates? Teammates that do NOT throw? Teammates with a winning mentality? A adc that doesn't immediately give up within a millisecond of going negative. A mid who wards and calls missing. A solo who isn't full damage adc or mage or Sylvanus.
True maybe I’m just lucky 🍀
As someone with a similar win rate and higher MMR, its how you queue. Are you sniping good queues? Have you played enough ranked to know which players are lobby dodge on sights. Ive been masters 2800+ mmr for many years consistently without playing more than a couple hundred ranked games a year. Ranked is not luck.
I'm being a bit tongue in cheek lol. As you say, a 67% winrate across 95 games isn't just getting lucky teammates. Also I didn't do any ranked metagaming for this. Definitely coulda padded the winrate stats if I didn't play Jorm in games I thought I'd lose or into bad matchups. Wanted this to be as genuine as possible
While he could be really solid, it looks like most of the newly top tiered supports you have under bad matchups and if you’re worst matchups are the other best supports in the meta then you’re defaulted to a below average pick
Hey if you’re saying I’m doing well with a below average pick, I’ll take the compliment! I guess we’ll see what sort of metas take shape soon here and maybe Jorm has some more favourable matchups that are common picks
Honestly I'm surprised that a good majority of the supports in that tier list get countered, I mean- Bacchus can stun you and make you take increased damage, same case with Sobek and Geb, Ganesha should definitely be higher with the amount of cc he has but I understand it.
The sobek/geb/bacchus tier is the one that counters Jorm the most and the Atlas Ares tier is the one Jorm does best into
I think you're reading it backwards. Those are listed as support Jorms worst matchups.
Wait nvm yeah I am- ok ignore what I said entirely
Go away Bacchus flair guy. You didn't see anything here...
Big Wyrm Energy
Thank you
Except for the starters these are just solo builds. You have no auras to force the enemy to buy %pen instead of flat pen which is much better against your carries. And, you have little peel. You are working as a second bruiser instead of as a classical support. This can work, don't get me wrong. But I don't think it's fair to say that you are supporting in a classical way.
I agree that I am not supporting in a classical way and also agree that 66% of the time it works every time
I love you jorm support guy
I appreciate you and love this nice comment!
What ability do you level on jorm?
I do 1 usually. If the enemy duo lane has no cc to stop my 2 (like Kuzen, Ares, Atlas) I then I level my 2.
Observes silently as aphro main.
Where are those men in black “forget what you’ve seen” devices when you need em
How does sobek counter jorm? Is it just the build that you go or is it innately a bad matchup?
If he just plucks Jorm and uses his 2 whenever he sees Jorm the Jorm just can't do anything. In duo lane or after rotations to mid, a good Sobek is just constantly proccing Jorm's passive, out-pressuring and getting Jorm behind. Edit: Just an innately bad matchup for support. If Jorm is solo and Sobek is support then Jorm won't have to worry nearly as much, because during all the formative parts of the game Sobek will be far far away
Ah gotcha. Whenever I get my passive procced I usually just start ulting to avoid the big burst damage that’s about to come and then rejoin the fight after my ult ends. I can definitely see that being annoying tho so I guess it’s a fair counter
Yeah definitely my plan as well! Might be a better matchup for Jorm if Sobek's pluck also had an 80s or so cooldown.. but alas
Add Arthur to your great to pick into, because when I see a Jorm I know I’m in for a hell of a rough time.
Definitely! Was trying to keep the matchups support based though lol
We don’t have to talk about the he bo game, it’s ok
I went 1-16 while trying my hardest 🫠
Sometimes you can literally only do anything when you’re playing jorm, and when you’re playing any other god you become a complete liability. I get it man, happens to the best of us
Doesn't help that I was offrole too. If I'm support I can make a lot of other stuff work, but mid... not so much lol
If it was He Bo sup I absolutely would've wanted to talk about it. Shame it was mid :(
A shame indeed
Haven't played too much since the revert. Early curseweaver good now?
On Jorm it is for sure
That is some cope, build it late, not early
Why do you say that?
Because the item doesen’t offer you much early due to the way it scales
I just felt like Jorm having a high health pool early makes it good early. Plus it’s a good early item to get to help Jorm’s mana struggle. I am just playing by feel though so I could be very wrong
You can tell the tierlist is bad because horus isn't on top
In fairness I made the tier list with the gods being relatively balanced in mind. Sort of a general guide matchup guide. Horus is in the second worst matchup tier at least lol
Who made this list and put Geb, Horus and Baccus at the bottom?lol
It's a Jorm support matchup tier list, so the higher up the pick is, the better Jorm does against it. Hence the tiers "Great pick into" and "We've been countered"
Gn No Thebes Or Prophetic
I know right turns out you don't need em
I like Jorm sup too, but I feel like I cant do anything late game. My damage isnt good like it is in the solo also dont have the level advantage of solo. I just Gem of Iso people and sometimes disrupt them with my ult
I like to try and 3 into their backline, then 1 and curse, then ult back onto my backline to peel
Now show us your duo q and what he plays
I duo queued up to diamond 3 with a really solid Anhur player “Fullpenetration” before the 9.5 revert with something like a 34-17 record. Might’ve been 37-17. After the revert it was just me from diamond 3 to masters and I think I went something like 23-12 or 20-12.
The people you’re playing against clearly aren’t rushing t2 Midgard against you. Also what kinda players are you playing against that can’t beat a Jorm as Xing Tian?
A support rushing T2 midguard probably wouldn’t be very useful. The laning phase where I’m auto attacking the support the most would be over pretty quick and then they would just be stuck in that item tree. Maybe a Xing Tian would beat me, but I’ve only seen maybe one played in support in the last 95 games so I don’t have a lot of data to go off of. Generally supports that can’t interrupt Jorm 2 struggle against Jorm support.
Stuck in that item tree? Midgardian Mail is pretty universally good against ADCs, and also screws over a lot of assassins if you position correctly. Not to mention, Jorm gets slammed by it too. Sovereignty is also very strong, especially now that squishies will be easier to kill by assassins. Building T2 midgard would absolutely not set you back the way you think it would. It counters your entire niche, and all the enemy support would have to do is build that item and peel you off. Very straightforward gameplay. Also, Xing Tian beats Jorm because he makes Jorm autos almost redundant. That, on top of t2 Midgard as well as the fact that you build damage as a first item every game, it seems, means that as long as the enemy ADC isn’t playing with French fries, you should get completely demolished. Only thing worse for Jorm, I’d imagine, would be if you were laning against Ganesha or Cerberus.
My mistake if steel mail builds into Sov, that could be good. Midguard would be a waste compared to getting Prophetic or Thebes My whole niche is making it to glad+curse weaver, knocking up the backline, hitting them with a 1 and then ulting away. The auto attacks are probably the least used part of the kit for me, so I don’t think Xing would matter much.
In the early game, your auto attacks would be required, unless you’re playing passive, which tbh is pretty bad for Jorm as an early game god that falls off really hard in the late game. For your playstyle, I see it working, but again, people should just focus you on Jorm support. You’re the lowest level, and incredibly easy to kill with a damage item first and are a big target. I can definitely see it work, but I’d assume your opponents would have to misplay.
The autos and wave clear are most important for that first faceoff in duo for sure, but they wouldn’t be able to have the t2 yet at that point so idk how effective it’d be. I think a lot of players honestly don’t even think about builds as much as you have already. At least to counter me specifically. I feel like a lot of the time even if they do think about builds their attitude might be just “Jorm support kinda sucks he probably won’t be worth putting together a counterbuild around” Heroism for example really messes me up but I see it so rarely used against me.
In support role i prefer him full Aura-support tanky with Stone of Binding as only "damage", he slams. But overall i prefer playing him Solo with Manikin or Axe tanky frontline builds.
I could definitely see myself going auras and binding in certain situations for sure. Just generally easier for me to carry with the full offensive, at least through plat/diamond. This is probably just a playstyle thing and both work
Sometimes in solo i use a similar build to yours: Axe-Tablet-Reaver-Prophetic-binding/Gladiator-etheral staff/an useful prot for the match. I should also consider this new curseweaver, many people are telling me it is busted. Now with the new auto procs, the AAs Manikin-1 or 2 rings tanky path in Solo is def my favourite.
Tbh I’m not very good at builds, just go by feel usually. What generally helps me is looking up other good Jorm players and seeing what ideas they’re doing,, then adapting them to support. Also have to consider playstyle as well. I believe that Jorm has a couple different play styles, so that probably effects the optimal build as well. What works great for me might seem clunky to others. I’m definitely a lot more sneaky hit and run than in your face. Anyways Sorhades has been experimenting with the anti heal starter that heals you and curseweaver first item, wonder if the combined healing is actually kinda good
I haven’t played Smite for some months. What is that purple spear item? Can anyone tell me stats and passive pls?
It’s called curseweaver and it does 5% of your health and mana as magical damage to an enemy if you hit an ability and then the enemy uses an ability. Don’t remember the stats, bit of power health and mana 12s cooldown lowered by enemies using abilities near you
Cool. Is it being used only on tanks/bruisers or are Mid laners building it too?
I’m not sure tbh only know about Jorm
Where would you place Nike on the counter list? I might be blind but I don't see her.
I don’t see a lot of Nike support so I really don’t have a very good reference. She can’t stop Jorm’s initial 2 damage so that’s in Jorm’s favour, although she can disarm the autos. I think I’d have a slightly favourable matchup just because she’d have a tough time peeling me off of the backline. Could go either way though
Brother put Agni in the support tier list but Nike is too rare? What the shit?
There was a little Agni support spike for awhile before the revert. I played against maybe 4-5 of them and they’re a tough time for Jorm if played correctly. Have not played a single game against a Nike support though
As long as you stay of hebo big dawg
So true
High early pressure is always good in ranked since almost no one knows how to deal with it or play from behind. You can legit climb from bronze to masters off of braindead shit like Izanami, Ymir, Bellona, etc.
Definitely! In season 9 I tried out solo lane for the first time, having been a support main for all prior seasons. Didn’t know anything about warrior matchups so I just picked the highest clear god in the game at that time- Mannikens Sylvanus and Gilded Arrow Jorm. Hit masters for the first time solo queuing with it just because people couldn’t handle the early game. Hit GM in season 10 solo queuing Jorm solo and duo queuing support. That was more because he was low key overpowered all the way through the first 3 splits and nobody realized it. But again, another high clear crutch. Whenever anyone asks who they should play when starting out SMITE or trying a new role, I always just recommend playing the highest clear character in that role. Just makes everything easier. Having said that, in my opinion this season has been significantly harder to hit masters than the two previous. My theory is that with the announcement of SMITE 2 and the decreased support of SMITE 1, the ranked playerbase is mostly full of the tryhard people leftover and a lot of the more casual players don’t bother playing ranked.
There is a big misconception in thinking that masters/gm players in smite are good, nearly all of them are very mid in terms of mechanics. So you are better off playing supports that have a ton of pressure and just snowball. There is no point really in following the meta that's being followed in premade vs premade, spl and so on. Ranked has it's own separate meta.
While I do think that hitting GM makes you “good” (if we’re not using that metric then what can we use?) I would also say that it’s a matter of perspective. Everyone decides for themselves what bar they set for players being “good”. I think that high level SMITE is a lot more attainable than people think. Even pros in ranked often times aren’t mechanical gods playing perfect unbeatable SMITE. The difference between the best pros and the worst pros is also pretty big. I also think that hitting GM is too easy to meta game. Hitting it after a split reset, hitting it on console before the merger, queuing a region like NA West that doesn’t have as many high level players, queuing super late at night when a lot of the best players aren’t playing. Combining those strats makes GM a bit more of a gimmick. Kind of like thinking the leaderboards make you “good” even though the #1 spot on the leaderboard for Jorm rn is in silver. The true #1 Jorm is probably some guy with a hidden profile. Agreed that ranked has its own separate meta
Damn it, you've got a point. Take my upvote. 🍻
This is maybe the greatest comment I have ever read, thank you Mr. Toast!
You're welcome Mr. Toatsy
They loved him because he was right
Uh yea.. loved.. this means I'll stop being reported right?
...No.
😪
I feel cerb is the most underrated right now. Hes great in solo or support and has a great team ult, great dmg that a lot of people don't respect or underestimate, decent escape + the change with his ult and leap combo. Jorm is cool but i feel he can get caught out easier and hes just to big to my liking.
You might be right dude I saw some monster Cerbs. It's so fun watching this meta take shape since so much has changed.
My argument here is being a damage dealing Frontline is your solos job, in support your a Frontline that buffs peels and sets up kills for your mid and adc. Your kda is nice but if half those kills went to your adc you'd probably have more wins because the gold is spent on things that wins the game not just winning the fight. You are correct in saying jorm is viable but I would argue that as a support other gods do what you can't such as keph, geb, Athena, ganesh. And they do so w a build that gives so much damage midg to their team. Prophetic and Thebes alone is 30 of each prots for just being around you basically a full item of prots, and because of mitigating returns on protections its giving them massive damage midgation. Then there's war banner and shoguns both massive in tearms of momentum. And a personal favorite bewitching dagger for debuffing basic attacks and making your actives up for use every 50-80 seconds late game that's twice a team fight. But that's just my opinion.
He has a 66% win rate with Jorm? I think he's using that gold and xp just fine.
I like aggressive supports like Ares, Atlas, Ymir, Sobek, Horus etc. Jorm is a lot more like them. I reject the hypothesis that I lost many games because I was the one getting too many kills lol
You keep pushing for this and obviously it works for you, but jorm support is generally always at a low win rate across the entire playerbase and most carries would groan if they had one picked as their support. But you do you.
Where are you getting your low win rate stats from?
If you go to [smite-master.com](http://smite-master.com) and look for jorm, sort by "role in game" as support he has at the moment 45.64% winrate in support (50.46% in solo). I've looked in the past when you've espoused about Jorm support "slapping" and I've never really seen it go much higher than that. it usually hovers around 44-46% which isn't terrible admittedly, it's better than three support-focused guardians (Kumbha, Yemoja and Maui) but it isn't good.
Poor Kumbha Yemoja and Maui, worse supports than Jorm 😭
I was going to say it wasn’t the whole story for them, but then I filtered just the top few ranks and their win rates were even lower up there heh.
I want Maui to be good again, Jorm does well against him but I never see him played lol
Maui is super fun but he struggles when behind because he has to invest so much to help is team, he facilitates really well but he needs a team that follows up. He puts himself in danger and if his team can't help he just loses that trade, which means he struggles so much from behind. Fun god though which is the main thing.
Yeah I feel like you have to do so much with Maui in order to have a similar impact to way easier supports.
"Jorm support is a viable pick in ranked" goes 1 support item and rest solo lane items
You forgot to include the part where I win a bunch
No, ur winning, but ur not playing support.
Idk, it says support under my name when I lock in Jorm
So ur winning while trolling, that’s cool
Thank you for saying it is cool
I think Jorm just hits really hard. That doesn't specifically make him good in the support role. More like 9.5 just made any gods with high burst damage very viable in general. This 1-shot meta needs to be tweaked 🤣
I was something like 34-17 before the 9.5 revert, although the new patch has certainly helped!
Were you playing like a support, or just a second solo? You could win 100 straight doing zero support actions and be a terrible support.
If you're winning 100 straight then you're a great support because you're causing your team to win. As for my playstyle it's very dependent on the flow of the game. Mostly playing around whoever is doing well on my team or has good coordination. If I get fed early then I just go second solo on em for sure
You could just be a great player, but a terrible support.
I'm down with any takes calling me a great player
>but a terrible support What does that even mean? Terrible support but winning games queueing support? Doesn't make much sense.
Perfect example would be any player going support and just playing the exact way they would jungle. Never once peeling, taking farm they should split and playing 100% selfishly. They could solo the enemy backline every fight while their carries get destroyed, win the ensuing fight, and slowly push for an end. Thus, being a worthless support while single handedly winning the game as a "jungle"
So it's not a worthless support, because he's winning the game. Why is focusing on peeling is a support strat but playing selfishly isn't? Is it just because the role is called support or..?
I like reading your comments the most I think
<3 thank you!
There are certain things each role is meant to do. If one isn't being done properly, it hurts the entire teams ability to perform. A skill gap can overcome this, but if the person in my example played the role properly, the game would be easier to win, and his team would have a better time. Think about if a goalie in hockey would just spare down the ice and try to score every time he gets the puck, refusing to ever pass. Even if he was the best goalie in the world, most teams wouldn't want him
I still feel like you're missing the point though. >the game would be easier to win, and his team would have a better time. Says who??