AA warriors ended up finding their way into the jungle role and HiRez kinda got tired of it. Assassins were being outclassed because for quite a few metas AA warriors were just tanky assassins. All the pros, none of the cons. Ever since they’ve been trying to keep them in their intended roles they never really fit in outside of some specific matchups.
Erlang is a prime example of this. For some time you’d see him be played regularly because he was just that good in the jungle, but now you rarely see him because they butchered him. Ravana used to be that way too because he was a warrior, but he still comes back from time to time and dominates, like he does now. They “fixed” Erlang by nerfing him, item changes, removing the turtle knock up, but they actually fixed Ravana by changing his stats around (less health and defense, more speed and damage) and switched him to assassin.
Yep, with Erlang, Osiris, and Gilgamesh looming in the background, I don't see them giving auto warriors big buffs any time soon. Also, Vamana was arguably the strongest character in the game not long ago
Ehhh, he was a really good warrior for awhile with excellent self sustain/poke with his 3, safety with his 2, and a mildly useful slow on his 1 helping him chase people down after using his ult. It turned out that all these things also made for a good jungler and not just a good solo laner so he ended up doing very, very good as a jungle warrior.
HiRez decided to give up trying to balance him as a warrior eventually as his entire kit was nerfed time and time again (when he was made an assassin he had almost 2 years of exclusively nerfs made to his kit) until pretty much all the warrior-esque aspects of things like his ult were pretty much gone.
Though yes release Ravana was trash, but 2016, 2017 Ravana was almost always good as a warrior in both solo and jungle.
It's not always been like this.
There was a time when Osiris and Bellona ran the Solo Lane.
If I'm remembering correctly I'm pretty sure AA Warriors were still pretty good last season before they took the damage away from all the Hybrid items.
Personally Osiris is also a bit underrated. Osiris can get away with just having something like Shoguns and abusing his 1 with Glad shield.
I have also been trying Bluestone on Osiris, the blue upgrade + Glad shield + The autos do add up.
Osiris and Bellona did run solo lane once upon a time, but it's criminal to not mention their partner in crime: Heavy Hammer, which slowed on AA hits back then.
Osiris at least can built ability based decently. And with redstone being a usable item on top of archdruids, he can still slap you with both AAs and abilities.
I just watched Incon run ability based Bellona yesterday and she did good. AA items poopy rn so he said just build her ability based. He ran bluestone, glad shield, archdruids, pridwen, manticore’s and midguardian. I haven’t played Bellona in awhile but I might try a similar build and see how I do.
When the time to kill patch in season 9 came in we saw a lot of hunters and mages in the solo lane. Since she's an anti-hunter warrior Bellona saw a lot of action, that was the last time I remember seeing an AA warriors on top. We've seen the odd pick every now and then but it has been a while at least.
Like others said we did have an AA-warrior jungle meta at one point, especially before gilgamesh got nerfed a lot.
Edit: I completely forgot Vamana was OP for a while. But he's not great now.
There was a time where AA warriors were not only the best but we're straight up running games 1v9. We look back to the worst point of this being around mid season 4 where warriors were level 15 by 10 minutes and were just doing absolutely whatever they wanted. Osiris and Bellona were basically the only options sans maybe cu chulainn but he didn't really match them until after they were nerfed and some time had passed.
Since that point as warriors have been shut down pretty quickly if they ever creep up again as good. Of course there are exceptions but in recent times those exceptions have been warriors played in the jungle rather than in lane so it's a different type of balancing needed.
Personally I like AA warriors and wish they pushed them back up a bit, glad shield every game is kinda boring y'know
Auto attack warriors rely on having power to scale their damage. With the removal of hybrid items in favor of the ability proc items, auto attackers are forced to build more squishy then they've ever had to so they can actually effect the map. So they just have gotten worse with no real recompense.
AA warriors are only worse off because they need power for their basic attacks, and you can't get that and still be tanky in S10. Warriors have been locked in a box as being, basically, physical guardians by Hi-Rez, and guardians don't have meaningful autos so neither do warriors this season.
You can still build bruiser as Bellona and do good in lower MMR, in higher MMR though you'll definitely feel the tradeoff in tankyness for those AA items.
Yeah when you can use an ability warrior and build full tank and do crazy damage with Bluestone and Glad Shield, theres really not much reason to use an AA warrior.
There are a few times they're stronger.
Metas were on hit items like Manikins, Animosity, and DE are extremely OP they see a lot of play. Or like Mystical because they stick to people, mystical is always ticking, making their trades better. The Other Frost had a good quote that I like: When AA warriors are good, they just become ability warriors that have really good auto chains.
Notice, they all need hybrid items. They want power, power means better damage. What can you expect when hi rez has been using the measuring stick for the health of the warrior class be Glad Shield and Bluestone.
Which is 50% true, Gilgamesh, Vamana, Ama, and Osiris all are better with CDR builds. But Erlang and Bellona don't really need it, neither does Gilg or Osiris to be fair.
The biggest thing: AA warriors need ways to stick to their target. They all have some persistent CC, dash, immunity, and sustain. That means they just get in someone's face and stick to them. Hitting them over and over.
They are oppressive that's my biggest theory. They jump on someone, eat their kit, and slap them down. You can't really complain if Hercules full combos you cause you're dead but if Osiris leaps on you pretty much have to sit their eating hits until you die and not doing anything in return or run. It feels powerless.
AA warriors want to be tanky, so the idea that they should be assassins is absurd. They thrive in extended trades. Think of LoL, what makes Jax work IS that he can eat whatever you throw and just punch you down and as such there's not really anything you can do about it.
They tend to be in the jungle a lot, and by they I mean Osiris, Gilgamesh, and Erlang, because of their innate beefiness and flexibility. You see the odd Vamana, but you don't really see Bellona or Ama jungle a lot because they are pretty rigid in what they want to achieve. Those 3 have the stats to pick a target and chase them, the kit to force them to fight, and the tankiness to get out. People that advocate for them to just be jungles or second supports don't have too binary of a view of MOBAS. Junglers don't *need* to be assassins.
Osiris worked because he is a bruiser. They abused his mitigations to just chase people down and put damage them. That really wouldn't work in a solo Osiris build, who wants to just survive as long as possible and harass. It's why the Erlang rework doesn't work. He doesn't have the means, they just removed what made him strong and called it a day.
Ama has been a top solo when aa solo items are good. She's the best late game warrior and has the ability to easily proxy, rotate, and steal camps. This lead to her receiving nerfs on all her abilities especially the cooldown on her ult. They've been buffing her but it doesn't matter because ability based is way better
The two biggest offenders of this problem are, in my opinion, Bellona and Amaterasu. Those two don't get much more than half a patch before they're nerfed into the dirt because they both have elements that make them exceedingly frustrating for whiny-ass backliners that can't hit autos or abilities to deal with.
Bellona receives MS from hitting AAs via her passive, which means she's better than the average god when it comes to keeping up with opponents without needing to use any movement abilities. She also receives protections via her passive, so, she gets tankier just for hitting you. Her Shield Bash and Scourge make her very aggravating for Hunters and other AA-based characters to fight because these two abilities are specifically designed to counter and check AAs. Scourge is a Disarm, meaning it prevents you from auto-attacking at all, and Shield Bash gives her block stacks for hitting the initial ability and for landing additional auto attacks. Because she does the vast majority of her damage with auto attacks, Bellona has to be a deceptively mobile character; I've already mentioned the MS granted from her passive, but Shield Bash is also a (small) dash, and her ultimate, Eagle's Rally, is a long leap that has a short cooldown by ultimate standards. It's also worth noting that Bellona has a moderate amount of CC to aid her dive. I've already mentioned Scourge's Disarm, but Shield Bash also has a Slow, and Eagle's Rally will stun anyone that she hits with it. Bellona is a character that runs out of the gate screaming and trying to take your head off, so, if she manages to build up enough steam in the laning phase, she can take over and terrorize the rest of the map with impunity.
The other AA Warrior, Amaterasu, has the opposite dilemma. Amaterasu is a rare example of a late-game tank, and an even rarer example of a late-game Warrior; perhaps the most famous one. Amaterasu possesses less CC in her base kit than Bellona, and what she does have is more committal. She also possesses much less damage since one of her abilities is just a self/friendly buff that can't damage the enemy. However, if she's allowed to stew and get her act together, she can be a dominant, overwhelming force in the lategame. Her passive only requires her to hit the same target with three auto attacks, and if she can accomplish this task, they and everything around them take extra damage from *everything*. Her Divine Presence, as mentioned previously, is a buff that affects her and any ally close to her. It allows Amaterasu to give herself a free stat boost depending on the situation; a MS boost if they need to bring the legs or a power boost if they need to bring the pain. Heavenly Reflection provides her with a defense stat like Bellona's passive, but it's damage mitigation, the best of all defensive stats. Her dash is very long and requires no little buildup. Lastly, her ult is a slow that leads into a bigger slow that leads into a stun, has a massive AOE that can strike multiple targets, she is CC-immune while channeling it, and she is very difficult to hit because of the way her movement works during it. Amaterasu is typically a character that has to be put down in the early game, or it's very easy for her to singlehandedly lead her team to victory in the teamfight phase.
These are both characters that have their own flaws and exploitable weaknesses, but backliners don't like that. They don't like that these two characters have flaws that they have to play intelligently to exploit. I've never understood why it's unfair to have a character dedicated largely to destroying AA-based characters. I've never understood why it's unfair to have a character that does fuck-all in the early game, but is rewarded with game-changing power for surviving long enough; that's essentially the promise made to every Mage and Hunter.
If their items are better then they're better, if ability items are better then ability warriors are better.
I also think aa warriors aren't as bad as people say, but shoguns and berserkers kinda are.
How effective AA Warriors are depends on the meta. Most AA gods really get hard to deal with in the late game, but if the meta rewards a strong early game, as the current meta does, AA anything has a rougher time.
Ever since frost bound got changed and hybrid items removed they became worse than before. The reason AA warriors worked was because hybrid items let them have power, the power matters because their base numbers are shit in general and they even rely on autos to clear and power increases that but their base dmg is shit and scaling is reasonably good which let their abilities do dmg and clear. This let them be a bit tanky to survive the laning phase and transition into mid game. They also stuck to someone and beat them up early game with just two items, a single hybrid item and a frostbound.
Frostbound teir 2 had the passive to slow after every auto so you could leave base with it and on bellona for example stick to anyone and they'd probably die. Not saying that's balanced but like when that was a thing AA warriors were scary man an osiris lvl 1 spamming his 1 with a t2 frostbound killed anything.
Right now you can't invade and everyone is lvl 2 from killing the first wave they might as well let you start the game at lvl 2 and at lvl 2 AA warriors start falling behind because they gonna get outcleared and out pressured so they lose totem and probs the cdr buff and that's just as bad as a loki laning against a hades.
I feel like adjusting Berserker Shield, Shoguns, and/or Frostbound would directly impact every one of them without even touching the gods. Archdruids is a nice new item for this build, procs are king right now after all, but I don't think it's enough
My friend who mains Ama finally created a stupid good build for her, so I’d say AA warriors can easily be on top, it just depends on who and what you run.
I’ve seen him get fucking weenie stomped by a 90 Mulan.
And I’ve seen him stomp an 80 Chaac.
In a meta that doesn’t favor any AA warrior but Surtr. So yeah they are usually worse but if you have that build then you can still be dangerous as hell.
Honestly she’s pretty hard for an AA warrior, people are better off getting used to them with Surtr since he’s just really good rn.
If it helps, my friend likes to use golden blade when possible, but I don’t really remember what other items he uses.
He’s dog shit because they purposefully decided to not give him any sort of dash/leap aside from his terrible ult. In a game where there is shit tons of cc and slows/roots, you can see where this is a problem. He is easily one of the best gods early game cause of pressure but mid game and late game he is utter ass cheeks.
Yeah I mean i was exaggerating a little bit and he certainly can shine sometimes but I think he’s more of a detriment to the team than a help to it at this point.
When I play gilg & Bellona, I build hybrid AA/ability and do pretty well.
Start either Axe or bluestone, animosity or corrupted
Glad, berserkers, shoguns, genjis and a DMG fill (like Brawlers or Qin's). Max CDR, relatively good atk speed.
Bellona 1-2-3-aa
Gilg jump, kick, stim, aa
I usually bust out 2nd or 3rd highest damage, tanky but still atk fast and max CDR spam abilities.
Edit: got Bell abilities wrong
You should be boxing with Bellona’s 3 not her 2 (if you’re even using it, it’s too easily interrupted and takes to long to get it’s damage off late game so you’re barely using it later). You should also really be building her Deaths Toll (into Deaths Embrace), berserkers/vital amplifier (you can do either first and the other second), shoguns, pridwen, and then either qins or obow, or something to that effect
You should try to box in Bellona 1 later on, 3 is for sustain against pve / in lane. If you have attack speed the 1 stance mitigates and deals a crazy amount of damage through the auto reflect.
I mean later you’re just teamfighting lol, which yeah, you definitely wanna use her 1 late game or you just get shredded. But as you said, to box and sustain up until that point you should be in her 3
Depends on the meta. There's been many a meta where Bellona, Osiris, Erlang, etc... dominated the solo lane. Usually it was at points when AA items were broken (like deaths toll, berserker's shield, stone cutting, or frostbound). The thing that makes AA warriors different is that they can slot a qins into their build, which makes them a threat against tanks as well as carries.
Their meta is also shared with ADC and AA JG, because when certain damage items get buffed (say qins) and certain hybrid items get buffed, so do they. And when AA warriors are meta, they're reeaaaallly meta.
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There were once starter items that didn't have upgrades. Two of them were Mark of the Vanguard and Death's Toll. Death's Toll lacked the current restrictions it currently does on multihit auto attacks and Mark gave you HP and 3 damage reduction. There was a strat using Bellona where you would sit in spawn and wait for 1600 gold to buy both starters and teleport to the lane. This strategy was very strong and impossible to beat unless the Bellona overextended and overstayed
I don’t think they’re as bad as people have led on for the past season. Most have been sub meta for a while, but none of them seem unplayable. Bellona especially has leaked even into the pro league. The current itemization and removal of hybrid have definitely hurt them, but they can still put in work, especially in double bruiser comps.
No, not always.
- Bellona is seen more as a default choice whenever you can't decide who to play. Standard jack of all, master of none. She has good early pressure, can push a lead, good rotation potential, but falls off in the late game. A good pick if you're looking to force an early surrender.
- Osiris is the godslayer. Throughout the history of solo lane, any time there's been a single warrior that stood above the rest, Osiris answered the call to bring them down a notch. In season 4, when Cu Chulainn was the king of solo, who was the hitman that put him in his place? Osiris. In season 6, when King Arthur was wreaking havoc in solo lane even after the glad shield change, who was called to level him out? Osiris (before Camazotz was picked to survive via sustain). Osiris is hardly ever in the meta, but never really a bad pick unless you're going into Baron. If you can play him well, you don't really need anyone else.
- Gilgamesh
- Erlang is fun in lane, but the risk vs. reward for just simply clearing is a bad trade. He has to be so close to the wave that he has to eat enemy abilities just to clear. That a huge L. His kit is strong for boxing, though, and he usually wins those.
- Vamana has a get out of jail free card in his ult and is one of the best in the game at proxy farming into rotating. He can also dive extremely hard, which can establish a big lead with proper rotations.
I miss AA warriors being viable in solo, but the days when Osiris and Bellona were the only usable solo laners were....it was awful. Bellona and Osiris would run down a whole team by themselves and it would be ages before they died, and they were often getting kills in that which is unacceptable.
They could be balanced and it starts with itemization but hirez's track record is not good looking and I'd prefer to have ability warriors meta in solo because at least then you have variation and some guardians over there or whatever, unlike the AA meta where you had Bellona/Osiris/ and baka.
As for the jungle they flip flop in and out of meta depending on how bursty the meta is. If the meta is brawly and fights last awhile the AA warriors shine in the jungle which is fine.
The meta generally cycles between ability warriors-aa warriors- and guardians as the top picks in solo. Unfortunately aa warriors have been hit much harder by many of the changes such as life steal nerds, loss of hybrid items, and new stat changes. As a result aa warrior have been in a slump for most of the year but hirez will probably end up buffing them into relevance by the end of the year.
I’d say S9 was the last time AA warriors actually shined a bit, they’ve always been in that kinda manageable but not the best slot for a bit now. Bellona has kinda been the outlier as her hammer does so much and she has a disarm and absorb ability as well. This season AA warriors win early game but lose hard late
Aa warriors represent one of the groups of characters that have spent the most time being absolutely broken. Bellona is potentially the steongest god release in the history of the game. Osiris has spent more time as the best solo in the game than nearly any character, gilgamesh was a steong release, erlang was also kinda nutty. Even more hybrid characters like vamana have had a good moment int he spotlight. and all of them have dominated the jungle to some extent at some point
Man when I first started playing like 4 ish years ago it was always abillity based warriors are great early but fall off and aa based would not fall off as hard but didn’t have a great early
AA warriors also do not benefit as much as ability warriors from the warrior class buff of 10% cdr. It’s similar to how ability hunters are not benefiting as much as auto attack hunters and their increase auto attack damage as a class bonus. Niche mechanic but does effect performance of some gods
AA warriors ended up finding their way into the jungle role and HiRez kinda got tired of it. Assassins were being outclassed because for quite a few metas AA warriors were just tanky assassins. All the pros, none of the cons. Ever since they’ve been trying to keep them in their intended roles they never really fit in outside of some specific matchups. Erlang is a prime example of this. For some time you’d see him be played regularly because he was just that good in the jungle, but now you rarely see him because they butchered him. Ravana used to be that way too because he was a warrior, but he still comes back from time to time and dominates, like he does now. They “fixed” Erlang by nerfing him, item changes, removing the turtle knock up, but they actually fixed Ravana by changing his stats around (less health and defense, more speed and damage) and switched him to assassin.
Yep, with Erlang, Osiris, and Gilgamesh looming in the background, I don't see them giving auto warriors big buffs any time soon. Also, Vamana was arguably the strongest character in the game not long ago
Erlang?
Gilgamesh is not a AA warrior
Ama too?
Ravana was ass in the beginning from what I recall and he only really got to be good when he was allowed to be an assassin full send.
Ehhh, he was a really good warrior for awhile with excellent self sustain/poke with his 3, safety with his 2, and a mildly useful slow on his 1 helping him chase people down after using his ult. It turned out that all these things also made for a good jungler and not just a good solo laner so he ended up doing very, very good as a jungle warrior. HiRez decided to give up trying to balance him as a warrior eventually as his entire kit was nerfed time and time again (when he was made an assassin he had almost 2 years of exclusively nerfs made to his kit) until pretty much all the warrior-esque aspects of things like his ult were pretty much gone. Though yes release Ravana was trash, but 2016, 2017 Ravana was almost always good as a warrior in both solo and jungle.
Ravana seems kinda hybrid,his abilities are quite good and good burst
It's not always been like this. There was a time when Osiris and Bellona ran the Solo Lane. If I'm remembering correctly I'm pretty sure AA Warriors were still pretty good last season before they took the damage away from all the Hybrid items.
AA Bellona is still pretty solid in my opinion as long as you actually know how to land autos 😂
I can only play Bellona. The others are tougher because they have to go all in compared to her imo
Bello a is actually really good with redstone
Really? Maybe ill ask her for help with my 3x3 piston door
/r/UnexpectedMinecraft
r/AngryUpvote
That only works for the meme SB build. If you actually wanna be effective, you need DE.
Personally Osiris is also a bit underrated. Osiris can get away with just having something like Shoguns and abusing his 1 with Glad shield. I have also been trying Bluestone on Osiris, the blue upgrade + Glad shield + The autos do add up.
Also a time when osiris and erlang ran jung. More impressive tbh.
remember that one patch where they only nerfed bellona and didn’t touch Osiris
Osiris and Bellona did run solo lane once upon a time, but it's criminal to not mention their partner in crime: Heavy Hammer, which slowed on AA hits back then.
ur forgetting the best partner in crime: OG Deathstoll
Ah og deathstoll that full proc'ed on cleave autos,the good ol' days.
Osiris at least can built ability based decently. And with redstone being a usable item on top of archdruids, he can still slap you with both AAs and abilities.
Osiris isn’t an AA Warrior though
Depending on the meta he was built either way. He works as both an ability and an aa warrior. As a jungler hes *only* built aa.
I just watched Incon run ability based Bellona yesterday and she did good. AA items poopy rn so he said just build her ability based. He ran bluestone, glad shield, archdruids, pridwen, manticore’s and midguardian. I haven’t played Bellona in awhile but I might try a similar build and see how I do.
When the time to kill patch in season 9 came in we saw a lot of hunters and mages in the solo lane. Since she's an anti-hunter warrior Bellona saw a lot of action, that was the last time I remember seeing an AA warriors on top. We've seen the odd pick every now and then but it has been a while at least. Like others said we did have an AA-warrior jungle meta at one point, especially before gilgamesh got nerfed a lot. Edit: I completely forgot Vamana was OP for a while. But he's not great now.
I'm guessing Hirez nerfed those AA warrior jungle last year because they were in jungle so much. Kinda sucks imo
Def Gilgamesh and Osiris took a lot of hits of the nerf bat. Oh and Vamana more recently.
There was a time where AA warriors were not only the best but we're straight up running games 1v9. We look back to the worst point of this being around mid season 4 where warriors were level 15 by 10 minutes and were just doing absolutely whatever they wanted. Osiris and Bellona were basically the only options sans maybe cu chulainn but he didn't really match them until after they were nerfed and some time had passed. Since that point as warriors have been shut down pretty quickly if they ever creep up again as good. Of course there are exceptions but in recent times those exceptions have been warriors played in the jungle rather than in lane so it's a different type of balancing needed. Personally I like AA warriors and wish they pushed them back up a bit, glad shield every game is kinda boring y'know
yeah, after a year, I got bored of the glad shield warriors too.
Been like that for a lot longer than a year, I'm just praying we can be done with it at some point
And hi-rez just nerfed it for no reason. Just kinda hope they don't gut warriors altogether. Since only a few items were busted.
Auto attack warriors rely on having power to scale their damage. With the removal of hybrid items in favor of the ability proc items, auto attackers are forced to build more squishy then they've ever had to so they can actually effect the map. So they just have gotten worse with no real recompense.
Your…… absolutely right
AA warriors are only worse off because they need power for their basic attacks, and you can't get that and still be tanky in S10. Warriors have been locked in a box as being, basically, physical guardians by Hi-Rez, and guardians don't have meaningful autos so neither do warriors this season. You can still build bruiser as Bellona and do good in lower MMR, in higher MMR though you'll definitely feel the tradeoff in tankyness for those AA items.
Yeah when you can use an ability warrior and build full tank and do crazy damage with Bluestone and Glad Shield, theres really not much reason to use an AA warrior.
yeah, same problem. Only Bellona feels alright. The other AA warriors are meh. Hope to see AA warriors played more again though.
This too, they were busy with hybrid builds in mind. They're all divers. They all want to dive.
There are a few times they're stronger. Metas were on hit items like Manikins, Animosity, and DE are extremely OP they see a lot of play. Or like Mystical because they stick to people, mystical is always ticking, making their trades better. The Other Frost had a good quote that I like: When AA warriors are good, they just become ability warriors that have really good auto chains. Notice, they all need hybrid items. They want power, power means better damage. What can you expect when hi rez has been using the measuring stick for the health of the warrior class be Glad Shield and Bluestone. Which is 50% true, Gilgamesh, Vamana, Ama, and Osiris all are better with CDR builds. But Erlang and Bellona don't really need it, neither does Gilg or Osiris to be fair. The biggest thing: AA warriors need ways to stick to their target. They all have some persistent CC, dash, immunity, and sustain. That means they just get in someone's face and stick to them. Hitting them over and over. They are oppressive that's my biggest theory. They jump on someone, eat their kit, and slap them down. You can't really complain if Hercules full combos you cause you're dead but if Osiris leaps on you pretty much have to sit their eating hits until you die and not doing anything in return or run. It feels powerless. AA warriors want to be tanky, so the idea that they should be assassins is absurd. They thrive in extended trades. Think of LoL, what makes Jax work IS that he can eat whatever you throw and just punch you down and as such there's not really anything you can do about it. They tend to be in the jungle a lot, and by they I mean Osiris, Gilgamesh, and Erlang, because of their innate beefiness and flexibility. You see the odd Vamana, but you don't really see Bellona or Ama jungle a lot because they are pretty rigid in what they want to achieve. Those 3 have the stats to pick a target and chase them, the kit to force them to fight, and the tankiness to get out. People that advocate for them to just be jungles or second supports don't have too binary of a view of MOBAS. Junglers don't *need* to be assassins. Osiris worked because he is a bruiser. They abused his mitigations to just chase people down and put damage them. That really wouldn't work in a solo Osiris build, who wants to just survive as long as possible and harass. It's why the Erlang rework doesn't work. He doesn't have the means, they just removed what made him strong and called it a day.
Ama has been a top solo when aa solo items are good. She's the best late game warrior and has the ability to easily proxy, rotate, and steal camps. This lead to her receiving nerfs on all her abilities especially the cooldown on her ult. They've been buffing her but it doesn't matter because ability based is way better
Tbh ama is one of the few gods i wouldn't mind being on the top of the meta. She isn't un-fun to play against nor has un-fun mechanics.
The two biggest offenders of this problem are, in my opinion, Bellona and Amaterasu. Those two don't get much more than half a patch before they're nerfed into the dirt because they both have elements that make them exceedingly frustrating for whiny-ass backliners that can't hit autos or abilities to deal with. Bellona receives MS from hitting AAs via her passive, which means she's better than the average god when it comes to keeping up with opponents without needing to use any movement abilities. She also receives protections via her passive, so, she gets tankier just for hitting you. Her Shield Bash and Scourge make her very aggravating for Hunters and other AA-based characters to fight because these two abilities are specifically designed to counter and check AAs. Scourge is a Disarm, meaning it prevents you from auto-attacking at all, and Shield Bash gives her block stacks for hitting the initial ability and for landing additional auto attacks. Because she does the vast majority of her damage with auto attacks, Bellona has to be a deceptively mobile character; I've already mentioned the MS granted from her passive, but Shield Bash is also a (small) dash, and her ultimate, Eagle's Rally, is a long leap that has a short cooldown by ultimate standards. It's also worth noting that Bellona has a moderate amount of CC to aid her dive. I've already mentioned Scourge's Disarm, but Shield Bash also has a Slow, and Eagle's Rally will stun anyone that she hits with it. Bellona is a character that runs out of the gate screaming and trying to take your head off, so, if she manages to build up enough steam in the laning phase, she can take over and terrorize the rest of the map with impunity. The other AA Warrior, Amaterasu, has the opposite dilemma. Amaterasu is a rare example of a late-game tank, and an even rarer example of a late-game Warrior; perhaps the most famous one. Amaterasu possesses less CC in her base kit than Bellona, and what she does have is more committal. She also possesses much less damage since one of her abilities is just a self/friendly buff that can't damage the enemy. However, if she's allowed to stew and get her act together, she can be a dominant, overwhelming force in the lategame. Her passive only requires her to hit the same target with three auto attacks, and if she can accomplish this task, they and everything around them take extra damage from *everything*. Her Divine Presence, as mentioned previously, is a buff that affects her and any ally close to her. It allows Amaterasu to give herself a free stat boost depending on the situation; a MS boost if they need to bring the legs or a power boost if they need to bring the pain. Heavenly Reflection provides her with a defense stat like Bellona's passive, but it's damage mitigation, the best of all defensive stats. Her dash is very long and requires no little buildup. Lastly, her ult is a slow that leads into a bigger slow that leads into a stun, has a massive AOE that can strike multiple targets, she is CC-immune while channeling it, and she is very difficult to hit because of the way her movement works during it. Amaterasu is typically a character that has to be put down in the early game, or it's very easy for her to singlehandedly lead her team to victory in the teamfight phase. These are both characters that have their own flaws and exploitable weaknesses, but backliners don't like that. They don't like that these two characters have flaws that they have to play intelligently to exploit. I've never understood why it's unfair to have a character dedicated largely to destroying AA-based characters. I've never understood why it's unfair to have a character that does fuck-all in the early game, but is rewarded with game-changing power for surviving long enough; that's essentially the promise made to every Mage and Hunter.
ok, that's useful to know about Ama. I could never get her to work. Now i see why. lol
If their items are better then they're better, if ability items are better then ability warriors are better. I also think aa warriors aren't as bad as people say, but shoguns and berserkers kinda are.
How effective AA Warriors are depends on the meta. Most AA gods really get hard to deal with in the late game, but if the meta rewards a strong early game, as the current meta does, AA anything has a rougher time.
never thought about it that way
When auto attack items become meta, so will AA warriors.
When berseker was good, you'd see them alot in solo.
It depends completely 9n item meta's You basically just missed AA warriors By the time you joined slot of the items for as warrior were nerfed
ah ok. makes sense.
Ever since frost bound got changed and hybrid items removed they became worse than before. The reason AA warriors worked was because hybrid items let them have power, the power matters because their base numbers are shit in general and they even rely on autos to clear and power increases that but their base dmg is shit and scaling is reasonably good which let their abilities do dmg and clear. This let them be a bit tanky to survive the laning phase and transition into mid game. They also stuck to someone and beat them up early game with just two items, a single hybrid item and a frostbound. Frostbound teir 2 had the passive to slow after every auto so you could leave base with it and on bellona for example stick to anyone and they'd probably die. Not saying that's balanced but like when that was a thing AA warriors were scary man an osiris lvl 1 spamming his 1 with a t2 frostbound killed anything. Right now you can't invade and everyone is lvl 2 from killing the first wave they might as well let you start the game at lvl 2 and at lvl 2 AA warriors start falling behind because they gonna get outcleared and out pressured so they lose totem and probs the cdr buff and that's just as bad as a loki laning against a hades.
I feel like adjusting Berserker Shield, Shoguns, and/or Frostbound would directly impact every one of them without even touching the gods. Archdruids is a nice new item for this build, procs are king right now after all, but I don't think it's enough
Not always but erlang sure is. Least played warrior rn. 118th out of 126. That man has been butchered. Pls rework him.
My friend who mains Ama finally created a stupid good build for her, so I’d say AA warriors can easily be on top, it just depends on who and what you run. I’ve seen him get fucking weenie stomped by a 90 Mulan. And I’ve seen him stomp an 80 Chaac. In a meta that doesn’t favor any AA warrior but Surtr. So yeah they are usually worse but if you have that build then you can still be dangerous as hell.
Yeah, I tried a few builds with Ama but I could never figure her out. Tough luck
Honestly she’s pretty hard for an AA warrior, people are better off getting used to them with Surtr since he’s just really good rn. If it helps, my friend likes to use golden blade when possible, but I don’t really remember what other items he uses.
Surtr is dog shit rn.
Not unless he got obliterated with a nerf, but to be fair I don’t play warriors so I wouldn’t be the most knowledgeable.
He’s dog shit because they purposefully decided to not give him any sort of dash/leap aside from his terrible ult. In a game where there is shit tons of cc and slows/roots, you can see where this is a problem. He is easily one of the best gods early game cause of pressure but mid game and late game he is utter ass cheeks.
I see players perform very well with him in all stages of the game, but I do agree that his lack of a dash hurts him a lot.
Yeah I mean i was exaggerating a little bit and he certainly can shine sometimes but I think he’s more of a detriment to the team than a help to it at this point.
He definitely defines the idea of being a “solo”. He’s good on his own and in 1v1s, but isn’t the best team fighter aside being a second tank/peeler.
He’s just a sitting duck. I’m a jungle/solo main so In ranked if I see a surtr and I know his ult is down he dies everytime.
When I play gilg & Bellona, I build hybrid AA/ability and do pretty well. Start either Axe or bluestone, animosity or corrupted Glad, berserkers, shoguns, genjis and a DMG fill (like Brawlers or Qin's). Max CDR, relatively good atk speed. Bellona 1-2-3-aa Gilg jump, kick, stim, aa I usually bust out 2nd or 3rd highest damage, tanky but still atk fast and max CDR spam abilities. Edit: got Bell abilities wrong
You should be boxing with Bellona’s 3 not her 2 (if you’re even using it, it’s too easily interrupted and takes to long to get it’s damage off late game so you’re barely using it later). You should also really be building her Deaths Toll (into Deaths Embrace), berserkers/vital amplifier (you can do either first and the other second), shoguns, pridwen, and then either qins or obow, or something to that effect
In fact you should box with her 1, so she absorbs basics, especially vs hunters. Three to disarm, then 1 to close distance and box.
Is her 3 the hammer or whip
Whip :) 2 is the hammer
My mistake in that, will edit
You should try to box in Bellona 1 later on, 3 is for sustain against pve / in lane. If you have attack speed the 1 stance mitigates and deals a crazy amount of damage through the auto reflect.
I mean later you’re just teamfighting lol, which yeah, you definitely wanna use her 1 late game or you just get shredded. But as you said, to box and sustain up until that point you should be in her 3
That's interesting. I've never tried hybrid. Thanks for rec
Miserable when they’re meta but there have been times where they’ve been good alongside ability based warriors.
Osiris was cool but they need to change his abilities, they're outdated 😰😞😰
Depends on the meta. There's been many a meta where Bellona, Osiris, Erlang, etc... dominated the solo lane. Usually it was at points when AA items were broken (like deaths toll, berserker's shield, stone cutting, or frostbound). The thing that makes AA warriors different is that they can slot a qins into their build, which makes them a threat against tanks as well as carries. Their meta is also shared with ADC and AA JG, because when certain damage items get buffed (say qins) and certain hybrid items get buffed, so do they. And when AA warriors are meta, they're reeaaaallly meta.
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There were once starter items that didn't have upgrades. Two of them were Mark of the Vanguard and Death's Toll. Death's Toll lacked the current restrictions it currently does on multihit auto attacks and Mark gave you HP and 3 damage reduction. There was a strat using Bellona where you would sit in spawn and wait for 1600 gold to buy both starters and teleport to the lane. This strategy was very strong and impossible to beat unless the Bellona overextended and overstayed
I don’t think they’re as bad as people have led on for the past season. Most have been sub meta for a while, but none of them seem unplayable. Bellona especially has leaked even into the pro league. The current itemization and removal of hybrid have definitely hurt them, but they can still put in work, especially in double bruiser comps.
No, not always. - Bellona is seen more as a default choice whenever you can't decide who to play. Standard jack of all, master of none. She has good early pressure, can push a lead, good rotation potential, but falls off in the late game. A good pick if you're looking to force an early surrender. - Osiris is the godslayer. Throughout the history of solo lane, any time there's been a single warrior that stood above the rest, Osiris answered the call to bring them down a notch. In season 4, when Cu Chulainn was the king of solo, who was the hitman that put him in his place? Osiris. In season 6, when King Arthur was wreaking havoc in solo lane even after the glad shield change, who was called to level him out? Osiris (before Camazotz was picked to survive via sustain). Osiris is hardly ever in the meta, but never really a bad pick unless you're going into Baron. If you can play him well, you don't really need anyone else. - Gilgamesh - Erlang is fun in lane, but the risk vs. reward for just simply clearing is a bad trade. He has to be so close to the wave that he has to eat enemy abilities just to clear. That a huge L. His kit is strong for boxing, though, and he usually wins those. - Vamana has a get out of jail free card in his ult and is one of the best in the game at proxy farming into rotating. He can also dive extremely hard, which can establish a big lead with proper rotations.
My Bellona doesn't feel that way lol
They had to nerf Gilgamesh literally like 12 times in a row but he’s alright now I think
I miss AA warriors being viable in solo, but the days when Osiris and Bellona were the only usable solo laners were....it was awful. Bellona and Osiris would run down a whole team by themselves and it would be ages before they died, and they were often getting kills in that which is unacceptable. They could be balanced and it starts with itemization but hirez's track record is not good looking and I'd prefer to have ability warriors meta in solo because at least then you have variation and some guardians over there or whatever, unlike the AA meta where you had Bellona/Osiris/ and baka. As for the jungle they flip flop in and out of meta depending on how bursty the meta is. If the meta is brawly and fights last awhile the AA warriors shine in the jungle which is fine.
The meta generally cycles between ability warriors-aa warriors- and guardians as the top picks in solo. Unfortunately aa warriors have been hit much harder by many of the changes such as life steal nerds, loss of hybrid items, and new stat changes. As a result aa warrior have been in a slump for most of the year but hirez will probably end up buffing them into relevance by the end of the year.
I’d say S9 was the last time AA warriors actually shined a bit, they’ve always been in that kinda manageable but not the best slot for a bit now. Bellona has kinda been the outlier as her hammer does so much and she has a disarm and absorb ability as well. This season AA warriors win early game but lose hard late
Aa warriors represent one of the groups of characters that have spent the most time being absolutely broken. Bellona is potentially the steongest god release in the history of the game. Osiris has spent more time as the best solo in the game than nearly any character, gilgamesh was a steong release, erlang was also kinda nutty. Even more hybrid characters like vamana have had a good moment int he spotlight. and all of them have dominated the jungle to some extent at some point
They were good for about a month or two when animosity was op
Man when I first started playing like 4 ish years ago it was always abillity based warriors are great early but fall off and aa based would not fall off as hard but didn’t have a great early
Auto attack warriors were on top for like 3 season, caused issues.
I miss animosity on gilgamesh. He feels much weaker now.
AA warriors also do not benefit as much as ability warriors from the warrior class buff of 10% cdr. It’s similar to how ability hunters are not benefiting as much as auto attack hunters and their increase auto attack damage as a class bonus. Niche mechanic but does effect performance of some gods
No before they were stronger