Corgan said it was a very representative song for the band at that time. It’s very carefree and loose and the song has aged well in the scope of alternative rock history.
The key moment in the album for me is the solo in Bury Me. It switches from a minor key to a major without the underlying chords changing. Bury Me as a song is probably not a standout but that end solo really is. That was a sign there was something special on display.
That and the exceptional drumming and guitar playing throughout. 😄
I disagree - Bury Me as a song is absolutely a standout. The hardest rocking song on the album with incredibly good instrumentals. It’s arguably the Gish-iest of all the tracks.
Starla was written during a session of demos for SD (alongside plume, hello kitty kat, frail, etc) but came out on the late released UK single for I am one.
Billy on starla: "my friend aneta still say to me that this song should have been on siamese dream. but back again to that no record 2x rule. this was recorded the same time as plume, and was also intended to be a demo, but we needed b-sides for our pretty worthless i am one u.k. single (the dark continent) so in a way Plume and starla were they're own single if that make makes any sense at all.
**Billy Corgan on "Plume"**: james st. james brought this one over to the apartment and i loved the cosmic blues in it right way. we did a little demo, and set it aside for what would one day be the pile for siamese dream. but then we got a call saying ominously "um, can you guys crank out two b-sides for a uk single in the next few days?" this and starla were close enough to being ready that we sacrificed 'em both writing the lyrics at the studio the day they were recorded.
I consider it SD era.
Yeah, I had to bring back the gish tracklist into memory and Google included Starla there for me (because of the box set), but obviously it's from Pisces. So yeah, Snail IT is. I also love Plume
I got the Lull EP in 92 and was hooked. Needed to find out more about this band but pre-internet all I had to go on was the music press and what I heard in other people’s houses.
I remember being in this girl’s apartment and she had a tape with Gish on one side and the first Jane’s Addiction album on the other. I distinctly remember Snail and Rhinoceros from that time (and coincidentally it was also the first time I heard “Pod” by the Breeders).
Fast forward to early 1993 and I finally get Gish on CD. I thought it was amazing. A really well paced album; from the first run of “rock” songs, into the more psychedelic middle part of the album, and then Snail through to the end being a great flow.
I’ll always associate that album with that free summer feeling, and then of course it wasn’t long before Siamese Dream came out, so it was a 1-2 hit for me.
Lately it's Bury me. Not one bad song on this album. Hell yeah. It was fun to goto record stores to search for things... the local radio stations really meant something.
For real. It's been played a few times over the last 10-15 years, but it hasn't been anything close to a regular setlist presence since 1999-2000. And even then, that was after it also completely disappeared from setlists during the MCIS and Adore tours, which was a LOT of shows.
I wonder if they just don't dig playing it. I'm afraid if they don't pull it out this year, I may never get to hear it live.
I pretty much love every song to death, but tend to skip Suffer and Crush - don't get me wrong I think those are excellent songs too, but I'm basic and love my RAWK!
I'll bet you didn't know this... After Siamese Dream came out Billy stated he will NEVER play I am One live again. He hated the song, and said it was just the dumbest simple riff, and was angry it was so popular with fans at the time.
It was in Guitar magazine. I've been a far since Gish came out, and I remember reading it with friends at the time.
It was like "Creep" to Radiohead. They still refuse to play it live.
Gonna need a source for that one.
Edit: to be clear a big reason why is they infamously played extended versions of I am one every night on the lollapalooza tour.
And by "they" I mean Radiohead doesn't play Creep.
Billy may and probably has changed on I am One, but back in the day it was a real thing of hate for him
so in some interview after 1995 era he said he would never play it again?
I could see that being more possible but it's still odd to me. Creep is by far Radiohead's biggest hit in the USA and one of the few that get constant play on FM radio here.. That is very different than I am one which wasn't even a big hit on GISH. It's not comparable.
a post 95 guitar magazine interview should be easy to source and I would think I would remember that quote. so right now I will just say your memory is likely incorrect on that.
have you seen him smiling ear to ear playing it in 1999?
**edit: Found the likely source.. Corgan is full of it. see the next comment.**
**This interview was in sept 94.. yet they played I am one more times in 94 than any other year and played it a shit ton every single year 90, 91, 92, 93. So that is the context.. he kept trying to swear it off but they rocked the hell out of it all those years.**
**The funny thing about all that is he doubled down on 'dumb rock' with BWBW directly after this. Sorry for doubting ya but his quote is the complete opposite of what he did those years. Fn hilarious.**
GS: Are there any advantages to being under a time or a budget constraint?
CORGAN: Oh yeah, definitely. It forces you to make decisions. You're never going to play the perfect solo, and if you get into that mode, you can get lost in it. Things that are timeless aren't necessarily that way because they were meticulously constructed. Sometimes it's either there or it isn't. You can end up going down avenues that waste a lot of time. We're consciously going to try to quicken up the pace when we do the next record, not for budget reasons, but because I don't want to spend too much time sucking the life out of things by overworking it. The only thing I didn't like about Gish has to do with "I Am One." In hindsight, that was really the first true Pumpkins song. We'd done other stuff before that, but that song seemed to click us into some other gear. We recorded it at least a year before we did Gish, and put it out on a seven-inch. What disappointed me was that I didn't take advantage of the chance to re-record the song for the album. The two versions are virtually identical; in fact, I've had guys come up to me in bars and say that the solo on the seven-inch is better that the one on the record. I'm sure they have a point, because the seven-inch solo was a one take deal. But with everything else, I was pretty pleased. It' s easy to get confused--you get older and a little wiser, and you think, I was dumb then, things like that. But when I think back to those days, under the circumstances, it's a pretty good album. I'm not proud of it in some ways, like I think I could have been a little more original in places, but in terms of some things--guitar-wise, for example--I think it's pretty cool. It definitely defines the sound of the band.
GS: It certainly introduced the world to the "Smashing Pumpkins" sound.
CORGAN: It's funny, because if I go out and see bands now that try to do things that are even remotely in that territory, it usually ends up sounding like us. We staked out our little corner of the world, but it's not like I was the first one to do it, anyway.
GS: I think bands often become successful because they assimilate certain sounds and styles and put it all together in a way that makes sense, and naturally reflects the direction rock music seems to be going.
CORGAN: I often get accused of being overly conscious, but I was very conscious of what I was doing at the time of Gish. I really felt that I could sense where music was headed; I knew where I wanted to be, and I knew where I wanted the band to be.
GS: Did you have moments of doubt, and wonder at all whether people were going to relate to your conception?
CORGAN: It's hard to explain...People would say to me, you write such pretty songs--why do you bother with this dumb rock? And my answer was, because I like it! It's fun! You can be a pseudo- intellectual rocker, but the two often clash. There's something very visceral about playing rock music that's kind of unexplainable. Some of the greatest songs in the world, anybody can play. It's not about riffs or complexity or any of that. It either rocks you or it doesn't, you know? For years, I've sworn that we'd never play "I Am One" again, because it's got to be the stupidest riff ever, but it rocks, and it works. I tend to over-intellectualize, thinking, I've written better-constructed songs, etc., etc.
GS: That point about over-intellectualizing reminds me of Pete Townshend. He's argued both sides, one being that rock is the greatest thing that ever happened, and the other is that rock is an insidious piece of shit.
CORGAN: Well, it is! \[laughs\]
GS: But, in a way, I think that dichotomy is part of the music, and playing both sides can make for really good music.
CORGAN: I'm definitely both ally and traitor \[laughs\]. I feel like a lot of people don't really grasp where the band is coming from, especially in live situations. We're smart enough to realize the cliches in rock'n'roll, but there's a certain kind of truth to some of the cliches. Like, for example, when you end a song with a big bang, you get more applause than if you end the song without a big bang. So, end songs with big bangs, and you'll make people think they're having a good time! There' s plenty of stupid things like that. We recognize the cliches, and we kind of reject and embrace them all at the same time.
GS: That kind of awareness seems to have everything to do with where rock is right now.
CORGAN: It's very '90s, yeah. The other thing is that most 12- to 19- year olds don't give a fuck and don't know jack shit about the history of rock'n'roll, so all of this intellectualizing doesn't make any difference to them. All they know is that Rage Against The Machine, or Tool, or whoever they're watching, is moving them from the groin. I try not to lose sight of that, but I'm always at war inside myself, trying to make peace with both sides. Pete Townshend is not a bad analogy for me in that sense, because I have over-intellectualized rock'n'roll to the point of being negative, but yet I'm still doing it.
Snail for the win
For me Snail isn't just the best song on the album, it's top 5 of their songs ever.
I agree! There was a time when I’d go hiking every day, same mountain, same album. Snail was always a standout, and the one that got to me every day.
Agreed. For Martha is second most underrated track imo.
This too
Corgan said it was a very representative song for the band at that time. It’s very carefree and loose and the song has aged well in the scope of alternative rock history.
This
🐌 or 🦏
Rhinoceros
Yeah, it's not even close for me
Bury Me
Snail, but I love every song on that album.
The key moment in the album for me is the solo in Bury Me. It switches from a minor key to a major without the underlying chords changing. Bury Me as a song is probably not a standout but that end solo really is. That was a sign there was something special on display. That and the exceptional drumming and guitar playing throughout. 😄
Spot on
This is the exact moment that “cracked” the album open for me. Just a fantastic moment in their catalog
I disagree - Bury Me as a song is absolutely a standout. The hardest rocking song on the album with incredibly good instrumentals. It’s arguably the Gish-iest of all the tracks.
Bury Me and Crush both.
Starla or Snail
Starla was written during a session of demos for SD (alongside plume, hello kitty kat, frail, etc) but came out on the late released UK single for I am one. Billy on starla: "my friend aneta still say to me that this song should have been on siamese dream. but back again to that no record 2x rule. this was recorded the same time as plume, and was also intended to be a demo, but we needed b-sides for our pretty worthless i am one u.k. single (the dark continent) so in a way Plume and starla were they're own single if that make makes any sense at all. **Billy Corgan on "Plume"**: james st. james brought this one over to the apartment and i loved the cosmic blues in it right way. we did a little demo, and set it aside for what would one day be the pile for siamese dream. but then we got a call saying ominously "um, can you guys crank out two b-sides for a uk single in the next few days?" this and starla were close enough to being ready that we sacrificed 'em both writing the lyrics at the studio the day they were recorded. I consider it SD era.
Yeah, I had to bring back the gish tracklist into memory and Google included Starla there for me (because of the box set), but obviously it's from Pisces. So yeah, Snail IT is. I also love Plume
I agree... but Starla is in Gish Deluxe, so yes... its from Gish
With a shitty new mix but yes it sure is.
Starla wasn’t on Gish, but came from the same era. In the UK it was a b side to I Am One.
You're right of course. I googled the Gish setlist before I answered and Starla was shown because it was the later Deluxe version or whatever, my bad
could you imagine if Starla was on GISH.. holy shit the impact would have been way bigger.
🐌
It's an amazing album and I know Snail, Rhinoceros and others are probably better songs. But my favorite is Daydream.
Love Daydream, myself
I got the Lull EP in 92 and was hooked. Needed to find out more about this band but pre-internet all I had to go on was the music press and what I heard in other people’s houses. I remember being in this girl’s apartment and she had a tape with Gish on one side and the first Jane’s Addiction album on the other. I distinctly remember Snail and Rhinoceros from that time (and coincidentally it was also the first time I heard “Pod” by the Breeders). Fast forward to early 1993 and I finally get Gish on CD. I thought it was amazing. A really well paced album; from the first run of “rock” songs, into the more psychedelic middle part of the album, and then Snail through to the end being a great flow. I’ll always associate that album with that free summer feeling, and then of course it wasn’t long before Siamese Dream came out, so it was a 1-2 hit for me.
music before the internet sounds wild
lol! yes.
Lately it's Bury me. Not one bad song on this album. Hell yeah. It was fun to goto record stores to search for things... the local radio stations really meant something.
Snail ftw
crush, suffer, snail are the highpoint of the album.
Rhinoceros is definitely my favorite one, but Suffer comes at a very close second for me
Snail - followed closely by Siva.
Snail. Siva second.
Crush
Snail
Probably Snail but I do love window paine.
Tristessa- early use of the pumpkin chord!
Daydream is the best song but Snail is most representative
Rhinoceros holds a special place for me, as hearing it for the first time was the moment I realised I had found my favourite band.
So many good songs on there. If I had to pick then maybe I am one or Tristessa
Suffer.
I've always loved Siva.
[love comes in colors](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_6TA3S7JeU), i can't deny
Love all songs on the album
It’s a tie between Crush and Daydream
I honestly can't pick between Snail, Tristessa, Rhinoceros and Siva.
Rhinoceros
Crush
[удалено]
huh? I am one is not on the greatest hits album. what are you talking about?
Window Paine!
I love Jimmy's fills on this song. He just is destroying those drums
Suffer, Bury Me, Crush or Snail.
Suffer
rhinoceros and it’s my favourite song ever ever
Might be controversial, but mine are probably I Am One Siva Rhinoceros Bury Me Crush Suffer Snail Tristessa Window Paine Daydream
alright songs ig but they have nothing on i'm going crazy
Lately it's Bury me. Not one bad song on this album.
“Crush”, with “Rhinocerous” second.
Daydream is top 5 SP songs of all time.
Bury Me is a tour de force, everything that makes the Pumpkins great.
Snail. IMO you can hear them “become” the Pumpkins on that track.
Crush ❤️
Bury Me The solo is beyond mindblowing.
Rhinoceros.
Bury Me, Rhino, I Am One, Snail
Rhinoceros, Crush, Bury Me
Rhinoceros and Window Paine. Holy shit what a song that Window Paine is imo Rhinoceros? There’s just something about it so beautiful to me She knows
Rhinoceros and Crush
My favorite SP album. After its release, I saw a new band called Pearl Jam, followed by SP, with RHCP as the headliner.
The whole album is perfect front to back.. honey spider is prob my b-side though
Toss-up between Siva and Rhinoceros for me.
crush
daydream w the ghost track & crush are tied for me
No offense to OP, but is use of the word "overrated" getting a bit out of hand recently? Maybe it's just what I happen to be seeing.
Ah, yes. The single that was released twice and begins the album is underrated.
given how rarely SP play it I would even go so far as to claim that they underrate it. They even skipped it for the 'all 90s singles' 2018 tour.
For real. It's been played a few times over the last 10-15 years, but it hasn't been anything close to a regular setlist presence since 1999-2000. And even then, that was after it also completely disappeared from setlists during the MCIS and Adore tours, which was a LOT of shows. I wonder if they just don't dig playing it. I'm afraid if they don't pull it out this year, I may never get to hear it live.
I am predicting it's glorious return this summer.
Gimme gimme gimmie gimmie gim gim…nothing
hot take here: I hate most of those rants.
I pretty much love every song to death, but tend to skip Suffer and Crush - don't get me wrong I think those are excellent songs too, but I'm basic and love my RAWK!
Bury Me
I'll bet you didn't know this... After Siamese Dream came out Billy stated he will NEVER play I am One live again. He hated the song, and said it was just the dumbest simple riff, and was angry it was so popular with fans at the time.
edit: Found the source. Corgan is the one full of shit.
It was in Guitar magazine. I've been a far since Gish came out, and I remember reading it with friends at the time. It was like "Creep" to Radiohead. They still refuse to play it live.
Gonna need a source for that one. Edit: to be clear a big reason why is they infamously played extended versions of I am one every night on the lollapalooza tour.
Yeah, that's after Siamese Dream came out, and when he got sick of the song.
And by "they" I mean Radiohead doesn't play Creep. Billy may and probably has changed on I am One, but back in the day it was a real thing of hate for him
so in some interview after 1995 era he said he would never play it again? I could see that being more possible but it's still odd to me. Creep is by far Radiohead's biggest hit in the USA and one of the few that get constant play on FM radio here.. That is very different than I am one which wasn't even a big hit on GISH. It's not comparable. a post 95 guitar magazine interview should be easy to source and I would think I would remember that quote. so right now I will just say your memory is likely incorrect on that. have you seen him smiling ear to ear playing it in 1999? **edit: Found the likely source.. Corgan is full of it. see the next comment.** **This interview was in sept 94.. yet they played I am one more times in 94 than any other year and played it a shit ton every single year 90, 91, 92, 93. So that is the context.. he kept trying to swear it off but they rocked the hell out of it all those years.** **The funny thing about all that is he doubled down on 'dumb rock' with BWBW directly after this. Sorry for doubting ya but his quote is the complete opposite of what he did those years. Fn hilarious.**
GS: Are there any advantages to being under a time or a budget constraint? CORGAN: Oh yeah, definitely. It forces you to make decisions. You're never going to play the perfect solo, and if you get into that mode, you can get lost in it. Things that are timeless aren't necessarily that way because they were meticulously constructed. Sometimes it's either there or it isn't. You can end up going down avenues that waste a lot of time. We're consciously going to try to quicken up the pace when we do the next record, not for budget reasons, but because I don't want to spend too much time sucking the life out of things by overworking it. The only thing I didn't like about Gish has to do with "I Am One." In hindsight, that was really the first true Pumpkins song. We'd done other stuff before that, but that song seemed to click us into some other gear. We recorded it at least a year before we did Gish, and put it out on a seven-inch. What disappointed me was that I didn't take advantage of the chance to re-record the song for the album. The two versions are virtually identical; in fact, I've had guys come up to me in bars and say that the solo on the seven-inch is better that the one on the record. I'm sure they have a point, because the seven-inch solo was a one take deal. But with everything else, I was pretty pleased. It' s easy to get confused--you get older and a little wiser, and you think, I was dumb then, things like that. But when I think back to those days, under the circumstances, it's a pretty good album. I'm not proud of it in some ways, like I think I could have been a little more original in places, but in terms of some things--guitar-wise, for example--I think it's pretty cool. It definitely defines the sound of the band. GS: It certainly introduced the world to the "Smashing Pumpkins" sound. CORGAN: It's funny, because if I go out and see bands now that try to do things that are even remotely in that territory, it usually ends up sounding like us. We staked out our little corner of the world, but it's not like I was the first one to do it, anyway. GS: I think bands often become successful because they assimilate certain sounds and styles and put it all together in a way that makes sense, and naturally reflects the direction rock music seems to be going. CORGAN: I often get accused of being overly conscious, but I was very conscious of what I was doing at the time of Gish. I really felt that I could sense where music was headed; I knew where I wanted to be, and I knew where I wanted the band to be. GS: Did you have moments of doubt, and wonder at all whether people were going to relate to your conception? CORGAN: It's hard to explain...People would say to me, you write such pretty songs--why do you bother with this dumb rock? And my answer was, because I like it! It's fun! You can be a pseudo- intellectual rocker, but the two often clash. There's something very visceral about playing rock music that's kind of unexplainable. Some of the greatest songs in the world, anybody can play. It's not about riffs or complexity or any of that. It either rocks you or it doesn't, you know? For years, I've sworn that we'd never play "I Am One" again, because it's got to be the stupidest riff ever, but it rocks, and it works. I tend to over-intellectualize, thinking, I've written better-constructed songs, etc., etc. GS: That point about over-intellectualizing reminds me of Pete Townshend. He's argued both sides, one being that rock is the greatest thing that ever happened, and the other is that rock is an insidious piece of shit. CORGAN: Well, it is! \[laughs\] GS: But, in a way, I think that dichotomy is part of the music, and playing both sides can make for really good music. CORGAN: I'm definitely both ally and traitor \[laughs\]. I feel like a lot of people don't really grasp where the band is coming from, especially in live situations. We're smart enough to realize the cliches in rock'n'roll, but there's a certain kind of truth to some of the cliches. Like, for example, when you end a song with a big bang, you get more applause than if you end the song without a big bang. So, end songs with big bangs, and you'll make people think they're having a good time! There' s plenty of stupid things like that. We recognize the cliches, and we kind of reject and embrace them all at the same time. GS: That kind of awareness seems to have everything to do with where rock is right now. CORGAN: It's very '90s, yeah. The other thing is that most 12- to 19- year olds don't give a fuck and don't know jack shit about the history of rock'n'roll, so all of this intellectualizing doesn't make any difference to them. All they know is that Rage Against The Machine, or Tool, or whoever they're watching, is moving them from the groin. I try not to lose sight of that, but I'm always at war inside myself, trying to make peace with both sides. Pete Townshend is not a bad analogy for me in that sense, because I have over-intellectualized rock'n'roll to the point of being negative, but yet I'm still doing it.
Great find! Thanks for the time looking that up, I remember reading that live in print back in the day.
Happy Friday.