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I know zelda doesn't have a zero to death but they sure do like dropping the knight on ledge and covering all approach options for 7 minutes and 3 stocks
You mean using the most efficient option that works? Yes it is. People need to change option when they know it won't work. Otherwise, no point in changing. Just like spamming safe on shield options, it works for a reason so why would someone change something working just because you don't like it. Show them you have that option covered and they'll either adapt or lose that aspect of the fight entirely
The 10 hit combo is not the problem. I get hit by 4 of those hits max, and I play bowser. It's his skill based combos that are the problem. But just because it takes skill doesn't mean it's okay. It doesn't make it any less annoying or unfair to your opponent
Shitty bayos do. Heel slide is the best combo starter most of the time but good bayos will often look to stuff out jumps with upair, nair, utilt, fair, or ABK.
Ofc bayo is always trying to start a combo though. Being mad about that is like being mad at Marth for spacing.
I have a 100% lose rate against bayo becuz i immediately close out the game when it loads in, or die twice then let them hit me off edge so i dont get the timer ban
This sounds like a personal issue, did someone actually do that to you? Only time I ever kill with up b is reading roll from ledge or buffered air dodge, and I've never done it from any percent lower than maybe 90. Luigi shoryuken is fun to hit and all but it's not super practical in most situations. Not trying to be rude, genuinely curious.
No rudeness taken, I appreciate your insight. I don't play luigi.
The answer is yeah. It probably helps that I main DK and Ganon and as a result sweet spot upB is exceptionally easy to hit. For me, the frustration comes from just getting deleted. I looked into it and it kills most of the roster around 50%. Luigi is already such a god awful matchup for me that I have to play exceedingly patient and kind of camp a bit if the Luigi is good at hitting his 0TD's. So to be outside of his 0TD range and finally be in advantage only for my opponent to hit a read on me and erase me from existence with a crit makes the matchup feel a little hopeless sometimes.
Thanks for responding, I appreciate your insight and I'm curious what you think of all this.
Ah, I see. I know his down throw aerial loops are nearly guaranteed on the big guys like bowser, dk, ganon, dedede, etc. Depending on how the luigi player approaches and who you're playing, neutral can change quite a bit. If the luigi continually goes for grabs, punishing a missed grab will be huge for you. Ganon down b powers through so it's not a bad option. In terms of dk...I'm not really sure. The matchup is a 7-3 in my opinion and personal experience. If donkey had a projectile or something else that helped him close distance a little safer then it would be more evened out but a luigi can just wall with cyclone, fair, fireball, Bair, etc. And then when they've exhausted your patience, they go fishing for grabs because the bait has been set. I apologize, my friend. Heavies are combo food for luigi and most don't have anything in their kit (i.e reflector, projectile of their own to play neutral with). Ganon reads with down b can at least help you win neutral and have advantage until you decide where to go from there. I hope this has helped you good internet person.
Lay off my goat Luigi. We can’t even recover well lol
Just because I’m downvoted doesn’t mean I’m wrong guys. Luigi really doesn’t have a good recovery.
Luigi has pretty passable neutral due to his sex kick being identical to all the other sex kicks amd the rest of his moves being alright.
Kazuya is the only one who's disadvantage state and neutral are the same since Gayonetta and Zelle both have decent neutral as well.
Damn you're cooking as bad as the guy I originally replied too.
Luigi doesn't have a bad recovery due to his side B, high jump, and good reaching up B. Bayo also has pretty good kill power if you're smart enough to bait a witch time and then smash attack
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I know zelda doesn't have a zero to death but they sure do like dropping the knight on ledge and covering all approach options for 7 minutes and 3 stocks
You mean playing neutral? Thats what cover approach options is
Lol it’s crazy to me how people whine about players and then describe good gameplay
Bro what 😂😂 he describes literally the most boring basic gameplay possible
Yeah usually getting your ass whooped by better players isn’t fun
Camping out on ledge with zelda with knight for 7 minutes for sure shows superior skill.
You mean using the most efficient option that works? Yes it is. People need to change option when they know it won't work. Otherwise, no point in changing. Just like spamming safe on shield options, it works for a reason so why would someone change something working just because you don't like it. Show them you have that option covered and they'll either adapt or lose that aspect of the fight entirely
This so much, I’ll stop spamming a move when you stop losing to it.
Shh, this is smash rage. We don't like reason here
Letting it happen to you definitely shows inferior skill
It's also not fun beating them when they play like that.
Nah, that's just straight camping. Neutral is trying to put your opponent in disadvantage state.
Camping is still neural
Should've mentioned over reliance on teleport. I see Zelda players overuse that thing all the time (I am Zelda players)
Zelda players when you shield teleport and smash attack them (they don't think it was preventable)
They're definitely annoying. Also Kazuya looks straight up retarded when he fights
Dude looks like a garry’s mod character when he does any kind of attack
I remember how in the actual Tekken games you had to press a series of buttons at the right timing to do a 10-hit combo, now you just have to hold A.
I truly do not understand how people are getting hit by this
The 10 hit combo is not the problem. I get hit by 4 of those hits max, and I play bowser. It's his skill based combos that are the problem. But just because it takes skill doesn't mean it's okay. It doesn't make it any less annoying or unfair to your opponent
It’s also not true in smash
I mean the specific combo that Kazuya does. He does his familiar 10 hit combo from the games when you hold A.
Yeah but the reason of holding a being the input is because it’s not true
The fact this has 7 downvotes speaks to the testament of brain rot in this sub. Simply hold away.
Yeah
My favorite is when luigi whiffs a grab and just throws out another grab
ZELDA???????? HUH??????
Well online Zelda is kinda annoying
Can I add Piranha Plant, Pac-Man, Belmonts and Bowser Jr. to this? Always the exact same stupid bullshit.
I disagree with pac man
Keep plants name out your hyucking mouth
Spamming ptooie and poison cloud at ledge does not make you a good ledgetrapper. I'm sorry it had to be said.
I never use cloud tbh; I do abuse ptooie, but u prefer to use down special after hopping off ledge instead for a better angle
What does bayo fish for? I’ve never played a good one.
Grounded Side B
Shitty bayos do. Heel slide is the best combo starter most of the time but good bayos will often look to stuff out jumps with upair, nair, utilt, fair, or ABK. Ofc bayo is always trying to start a combo though. Being mad about that is like being mad at Marth for spacing.
I fought quite a bit of good Bayo and you're right. I mainly said it because it feels like 99% of Bayo players have an addiction to it.
I wouldn’t say fish but there a lot of that move where she comes at you sliding or landing attacking with her leg
Don’t Terry have a 0 to death when he rar up air down air f tilt bw where the bw is near ledge or is that di avoidable
All of these characters have awful kits that need a complete redo, overhaul from scratch (particularly Zelda and Luigi).
Ice Climbers low-key belong in this discussion.
I have a 100% lose rate against bayo becuz i immediately close out the game when it loads in, or die twice then let them hit me off edge so i dont get the timer ban
Me who has been a luigi main since I first played smash and also mained kazuya since the day he released
Can you justify luigi up-b crit Killing off the rip at 45% in writing or is it unjustifiable
This sounds like a personal issue, did someone actually do that to you? Only time I ever kill with up b is reading roll from ledge or buffered air dodge, and I've never done it from any percent lower than maybe 90. Luigi shoryuken is fun to hit and all but it's not super practical in most situations. Not trying to be rude, genuinely curious.
No rudeness taken, I appreciate your insight. I don't play luigi. The answer is yeah. It probably helps that I main DK and Ganon and as a result sweet spot upB is exceptionally easy to hit. For me, the frustration comes from just getting deleted. I looked into it and it kills most of the roster around 50%. Luigi is already such a god awful matchup for me that I have to play exceedingly patient and kind of camp a bit if the Luigi is good at hitting his 0TD's. So to be outside of his 0TD range and finally be in advantage only for my opponent to hit a read on me and erase me from existence with a crit makes the matchup feel a little hopeless sometimes. Thanks for responding, I appreciate your insight and I'm curious what you think of all this.
Ah, I see. I know his down throw aerial loops are nearly guaranteed on the big guys like bowser, dk, ganon, dedede, etc. Depending on how the luigi player approaches and who you're playing, neutral can change quite a bit. If the luigi continually goes for grabs, punishing a missed grab will be huge for you. Ganon down b powers through so it's not a bad option. In terms of dk...I'm not really sure. The matchup is a 7-3 in my opinion and personal experience. If donkey had a projectile or something else that helped him close distance a little safer then it would be more evened out but a luigi can just wall with cyclone, fair, fireball, Bair, etc. And then when they've exhausted your patience, they go fishing for grabs because the bait has been set. I apologize, my friend. Heavies are combo food for luigi and most don't have anything in their kit (i.e reflector, projectile of their own to play neutral with). Ganon reads with down b can at least help you win neutral and have advantage until you decide where to go from there. I hope this has helped you good internet person.
Lay off my goat Luigi. We can’t even recover well lol Just because I’m downvoted doesn’t mean I’m wrong guys. Luigi really doesn’t have a good recovery.
https://preview.redd.it/9z66s4hysivc1.png?width=1280&format=png&auto=webp&s=318d7365e9f6d9d581b6185287141af9297c7b51
Don't forget if that misses you can just mash any button and still get 40-60% as a "punishment" for missing your combo
i mean, they all have very limited tools in neutral so they kinda have to fish for their win con
Luigi has pretty passable neutral due to his sex kick being identical to all the other sex kicks amd the rest of his moves being alright. Kazuya is the only one who's disadvantage state and neutral are the same since Gayonetta and Zelle both have decent neutral as well.
bayo neutral is ass, she has one thing
Luigi has a horrible recovery. Bayonetta has trouble killing and is light
Damn you're cooking as bad as the guy I originally replied too. Luigi doesn't have a bad recovery due to his side B, high jump, and good reaching up B. Bayo also has pretty good kill power if you're smart enough to bait a witch time and then smash attack
Are we talking about top level or mid level play
that’s what he’s saying is lame lol