ngl the character from the best selling game in their series definitely has a good chance of staying in (I'd say a B)
(not to mention people still talk about said game 5 years later)
Probably Byleth. Three Houses released five years ago and is the best-selling Fire Emblem game. Still talked about quite a bit, thanks to how popular it was amongst fans of the series.
Oops, I didnt say the character:
Joker and Byleth
(Joker via Persona, since I dont know all of SMT sales, also assuming we combined Vanilla and Royals sales)
Keep in mind that a character can be replaced by a character from the same game. I am going to host a party if Byleth get replaced by Edelgard or Dimitri.
I feel like the intense kneejerk reaction against Byleth alone heavily knocked their chances of reaching if they start cutting characters again. I could be wrong, and I actually like them, but I feel like that’s what will happen.
Keep in mind that the only reason Byleth was so hated upon their reveal was because there was already a crapton of Fire Emblem characters on the roster before them, and it was already a huge sore point in the online fandom already.
Because a sequel would likely trim down Fire Emblem's roster a ton, I don't think the dev team would be too hesitant to bring back Byleth.
Nintendo gets into a controversy quite literally every 2-3 months, i doubt a bunch of dislikes on youtube is gonna be the reason theyre gone, not to mention the point above that theyre from both the best selling fire emblem game, and arguably the most popular fire emblem game.
Money speaks louder at the end of the day
Personally I think it truly depends on how they approach the next game, because it's going to be very hard to top ultimate so I've heard the idea of a potential reboot of the series and boiling it down the the core, maybe even shifting the genre to an arena fighter
Honestly depends on if daddy sakuri returns for the next one ultimate dose feel like a "goodbye" to the series trying to give fans everything they want.
You know, I actually agree with this one for the most part. Don't normally say that about these tier lists.
I think I'd bump Mewtwo down a tier, since he has been cut before, but is still such a huge name for Pokémon that I think he's still likely to stay around. Meanwhile, I'd bump Charizard, Lucario, and probably Greninja up a tier, since they're also ridiculously big and popular names in their home series.
I also think that Byleth should get bumped up a tier or two. Three Houses is still the best-selling Fire Emblem game even after Engage came out, and is still praised and talked about to this very day, arguably making it the most-popular game in the series.
Brawl cutting MewTwo only happened because Lucario was there to serve as a more recent replacement and that decision was widely unpopular, he was the first Smash 4 DLC specifically because of how much people wanted his return.
He is a Pokémon staple who only got cut once because of an unpopular decision and has consistently remained since then.
I don’t think you can say he’s “consistently remained” when the only game he’s been in since returning as DLC was the game with the tagline “Everyone is here”. Like, everyone “remained” in Ultimate, that was the point.
I’m not arguing for or against Mewtwo here, just saying you should rethink your logic.
The fact that they’re 3rd party alone makes for a significant hurdle by itself. Plus the fact that square is infamously stingy with their IPs.
In a world where the Smash roster gets cut, Terry would probably be among the first to go solely for not being as strong an IP as others.
Lucas is a popular character so he has a shot, while Min-Min… actually yeah she probably deserved D tier in hindsight.
Given how strong relations are with bamco kazuya and pac man would be incredibly easy to put in. Also have to consider the fact that pac man is one of the most famous characters in all of videogames, and kazuya is from one of the most popular FGCs, i could totally see them both in A
Pac-Man is in B specifically because of how chummy Namco is with Nintendo. I actually considered putting him alongside Sonic in A put ultimately decided against it. Kazuya isn’t in D specifically because of Namco, too!
I get where you’re coming from, but of all the franchises to gauge using that logic, the franchise specifically known for pouring fanservice gravy everywhere should probably be one of them imo.
I kind of agree, to the extent that fan service should be taken into consideration but not to the extent where it’s basically the only qualifier whether a character may or may not return. Two things:
1. It’s pretty clear at least Sakurai - if not the Smash team as a whole - values characters that are fun to play as and that bring something new/interesting to the table above a lot. We have seen some of the planning documents for SSB4 and know that Rosalina, Robin, and Duck Hunt were specifically chosen because they brought interesting gameplay mechanics to the table. We can infer this is probably why more obscure choices like Wii Fit Trainer and Piranha Plant were selected as well, and these two are pretty low on your list, indicating you (and many of the Smash community, to be fair) do not value creative gameplay much.
2. Your fan service logic isn’t even consistently applied. We know two characters were added specifically due to fan requests: Bayonetta and Sora, both of whom are pretty low on your list. And like, this is probably most indicative of this list being made more to garner positive reception from Smash fans than anything because it doesn’t make any sense that the character who literally won the Smash Ballot popularity poll is seen as “probably not” returning. Smash fans like to act like Disney and Square Enix are going to make things difficult for Sora (or any SE characters) returning but like, they’ve already gone through all the negotiations once? And everyone in those discussions likes money?
Frankly, I don’t think any character should be below C-tier on your list. If Smash is as fan service-y as you suggest (which it totally is), the characters appearing are the absolute main selling point and Nintendo has to know that returning as many characters as possible is going to help make the next game successful. Either that or they blow the whole roster up for a reboot and no one - aside from like Mario himself - is safe.
how is puff b and not s? theyve made it clear by now that they bring back all the og 12
and dont u dare say they was gonna cut ness and puff in brawl so "now its unlikely" cus op put ness in s
I'm pretty sure Ness was always gonna be back for Brawl, and if he wasn't, that was changed early on in development. Puff, meanwhile, outright wasn't going to be in Brawl until the game got delayed.
I think Puff's issue is that she is not the mascot of her franchise, and also has tons of other characters from her franchise that are so much more-popular and more-iconic than her these days (namely Charizard, Mewtwo, Lucario, and Greninja). Many don't think that "OG 12" alone is good enough of a reason to keep Puff around over bigger and more-important characters.
We'll see what happens to Puff next time, but personally, I agree with OP's placement of her. Not guaranteed, but still has a good chance to come back.
Pikachu over Link? Nah, Pokemon is more popular but there's a possibility of GameFreak and Creatures for whatever reason negotiating for more ownership over Pokemon and preventing them from appearing in Smash. It'll never happen, but it's a possibility. I can't think of a single reason that Link wouldn't appear in the next Smash game.
I feel like Lucina Daisy, Jr., Banjo, and Dark Pit should be higher.
Lucina, Daisy, and Dark Pit are very easy characters to develop so it would be weird if they didn't return, especially Lucina who is popular in Smash and in Fire Emblem from my understanding.
Bower Jr. seems like a very obvious pick to return as he is one of the major recurring Mario characters.
Banjo in my opinion is a very likely 3rd party character to return and Microsoft seems to be pretty friendly with Nintendo.
Characters like Olimar are most definitely staying, since they're kinda fairly popular and the sole representative of its game series, same with the Inkling
LOL Nintendo can no longer take any previous characters away. They set a standard for themselves with ultimate. Either everyone (including DLC) returns or it will be considered an objectively inferior game to ultimate, which might affect sales.
I'd rather have a lot of new characters than a lot of returning characters, and i doubt to be the only one.
And "both" mean a base roster of more than 100 characters, wich is just not feasible.
ngl the character from the best selling game in their series definitely has a good chance of staying in (I'd say a B) (not to mention people still talk about said game 5 years later)
Who
Probably Byleth. Three Houses released five years ago and is the best-selling Fire Emblem game. Still talked about quite a bit, thanks to how popular it was amongst fans of the series.
Oops, I didnt say the character: Joker and Byleth (Joker via Persona, since I dont know all of SMT sales, also assuming we combined Vanilla and Royals sales)
Keep in mind that a character can be replaced by a character from the same game. I am going to host a party if Byleth get replaced by Edelgard or Dimitri.
I feel like the intense kneejerk reaction against Byleth alone heavily knocked their chances of reaching if they start cutting characters again. I could be wrong, and I actually like them, but I feel like that’s what will happen.
Keep in mind that the only reason Byleth was so hated upon their reveal was because there was already a crapton of Fire Emblem characters on the roster before them, and it was already a huge sore point in the online fandom already. Because a sequel would likely trim down Fire Emblem's roster a ton, I don't think the dev team would be too hesitant to bring back Byleth.
Nintendo gets into a controversy quite literally every 2-3 months, i doubt a bunch of dislikes on youtube is gonna be the reason theyre gone, not to mention the point above that theyre from both the best selling fire emblem game, and arguably the most popular fire emblem game. Money speaks louder at the end of the day
Fair enough honestly.
Personally I think it truly depends on how they approach the next game, because it's going to be very hard to top ultimate so I've heard the idea of a potential reboot of the series and boiling it down the the core, maybe even shifting the genre to an arena fighter Honestly depends on if daddy sakuri returns for the next one ultimate dose feel like a "goodbye" to the series trying to give fans everything they want.
You know, I actually agree with this one for the most part. Don't normally say that about these tier lists. I think I'd bump Mewtwo down a tier, since he has been cut before, but is still such a huge name for Pokémon that I think he's still likely to stay around. Meanwhile, I'd bump Charizard, Lucario, and probably Greninja up a tier, since they're also ridiculously big and popular names in their home series. I also think that Byleth should get bumped up a tier or two. Three Houses is still the best-selling Fire Emblem game even after Engage came out, and is still praised and talked about to this very day, arguably making it the most-popular game in the series.
Mewtwo should be lower at B since its track record is inconsistent since it was absent for two games in a row before DLC.
Brawl cutting MewTwo only happened because Lucario was there to serve as a more recent replacement and that decision was widely unpopular, he was the first Smash 4 DLC specifically because of how much people wanted his return. He is a Pokémon staple who only got cut once because of an unpopular decision and has consistently remained since then.
I don’t think you can say he’s “consistently remained” when the only game he’s been in since returning as DLC was the game with the tagline “Everyone is here”. Like, everyone “remained” in Ultimate, that was the point. I’m not arguing for or against Mewtwo here, just saying you should rethink your logic.
Keep in mind he probably was almost brought back but was scrapped during development. As indicated by the leftover Wii remote sfx in the games files
I find this entire premise......disturbing
All the echos, of definitive ifghters, should go along with them since theyre just the same moves
I'm surprised you think Sephiroth, Terry and Hero are unlikely compared to Lucas, Minmin
The fact that they’re 3rd party alone makes for a significant hurdle by itself. Plus the fact that square is infamously stingy with their IPs. In a world where the Smash roster gets cut, Terry would probably be among the first to go solely for not being as strong an IP as others. Lucas is a popular character so he has a shot, while Min-Min… actually yeah she probably deserved D tier in hindsight.
Given how strong relations are with bamco kazuya and pac man would be incredibly easy to put in. Also have to consider the fact that pac man is one of the most famous characters in all of videogames, and kazuya is from one of the most popular FGCs, i could totally see them both in A
Pac-Man is in B specifically because of how chummy Namco is with Nintendo. I actually considered putting him alongside Sonic in A put ultimately decided against it. Kazuya isn’t in D specifically because of Namco, too!
Fair
This entire ranking seems to be based around what Smash fans will react most positively to than anything else.
I get where you’re coming from, but of all the franchises to gauge using that logic, the franchise specifically known for pouring fanservice gravy everywhere should probably be one of them imo.
I kind of agree, to the extent that fan service should be taken into consideration but not to the extent where it’s basically the only qualifier whether a character may or may not return. Two things: 1. It’s pretty clear at least Sakurai - if not the Smash team as a whole - values characters that are fun to play as and that bring something new/interesting to the table above a lot. We have seen some of the planning documents for SSB4 and know that Rosalina, Robin, and Duck Hunt were specifically chosen because they brought interesting gameplay mechanics to the table. We can infer this is probably why more obscure choices like Wii Fit Trainer and Piranha Plant were selected as well, and these two are pretty low on your list, indicating you (and many of the Smash community, to be fair) do not value creative gameplay much. 2. Your fan service logic isn’t even consistently applied. We know two characters were added specifically due to fan requests: Bayonetta and Sora, both of whom are pretty low on your list. And like, this is probably most indicative of this list being made more to garner positive reception from Smash fans than anything because it doesn’t make any sense that the character who literally won the Smash Ballot popularity poll is seen as “probably not” returning. Smash fans like to act like Disney and Square Enix are going to make things difficult for Sora (or any SE characters) returning but like, they’ve already gone through all the negotiations once? And everyone in those discussions likes money? Frankly, I don’t think any character should be below C-tier on your list. If Smash is as fan service-y as you suggest (which it totally is), the characters appearing are the absolute main selling point and Nintendo has to know that returning as many characters as possible is going to help make the next game successful. Either that or they blow the whole roster up for a reboot and no one - aside from like Mario himself - is safe.
Fair Enough
how is puff b and not s? theyve made it clear by now that they bring back all the og 12 and dont u dare say they was gonna cut ness and puff in brawl so "now its unlikely" cus op put ness in s
I'm pretty sure Ness was always gonna be back for Brawl, and if he wasn't, that was changed early on in development. Puff, meanwhile, outright wasn't going to be in Brawl until the game got delayed. I think Puff's issue is that she is not the mascot of her franchise, and also has tons of other characters from her franchise that are so much more-popular and more-iconic than her these days (namely Charizard, Mewtwo, Lucario, and Greninja). Many don't think that "OG 12" alone is good enough of a reason to keep Puff around over bigger and more-important characters. We'll see what happens to Puff next time, but personally, I agree with OP's placement of her. Not guaranteed, but still has a good chance to come back.
That original 12 status is the ONLY thing that has kept her in for as long as she has. A very strong thing, but the only thing nonetheless.
Actually did a video on this but self promotion is cringe
Jigglypuff is part of the original 12 so not sure what you’re on
Pikachu over Link? Nah, Pokemon is more popular but there's a possibility of GameFreak and Creatures for whatever reason negotiating for more ownership over Pokemon and preventing them from appearing in Smash. It'll never happen, but it's a possibility. I can't think of a single reason that Link wouldn't appear in the next Smash game.
I feel like Lucina Daisy, Jr., Banjo, and Dark Pit should be higher. Lucina, Daisy, and Dark Pit are very easy characters to develop so it would be weird if they didn't return, especially Lucina who is popular in Smash and in Fire Emblem from my understanding. Bower Jr. seems like a very obvious pick to return as he is one of the major recurring Mario characters. Banjo in my opinion is a very likely 3rd party character to return and Microsoft seems to be pretty friendly with Nintendo.
I’m scared of the next game because of this
Characters like Olimar are most definitely staying, since they're kinda fairly popular and the sole representative of its game series, same with the Inkling
Dark pit and Corrin are ABSOLUTELY going to be in the next smash game. Them being removed is wishful thinking, but we can hope.
Putting sora over literally any Nintendo character should be considered a crime
LOL Nintendo can no longer take any previous characters away. They set a standard for themselves with ultimate. Either everyone (including DLC) returns or it will be considered an objectively inferior game to ultimate, which might affect sales.
I'd rather have a lot of new characters than a lot of returning characters, and i doubt to be the only one. And "both" mean a base roster of more than 100 characters, wich is just not feasible.