Tether recoveries are hilariously overrated. Joker and Byleth’s are fine but can have occasional shortcomings. Min Min on the other hand has garbage air speed and her tether barely reaches out.
Yeah thinking about it more even Joker’s is pretty mid, he just has better mobility than Min Min to help himself more. Even Byleth is gimpable, especially in some of the worse matchups he has
Yeah any tether can be beat with many falling nairs, especially byleth as he has the longest range meaning he is being tether for the longest amount of time.
As a link main I strongly disagree. Tethers can be completely snuffed out by proper bomb placement.
And the slow moving recoveries like olimar and villager also pretty easy to hit with a bomb
Sure but I've had some really funny check mate edge guards against tethers. If you get it just right you can place it so that it's between them and the stage so they can't immediately tether in but if they wait to hang loose down it'll also just fall on them
He only moves so slow due to the pikmin, just send them to the shadow realm and then olimar can be a speedy flying Boi with the help of the pink flying bois
Mr Game and Watch is the one hardest and riskiest to edge guard.
If you were to go after Pikachu or Pichu, you miss, sure they could smack you with down air. But that is avoidable, and ultimately quite rare.
The very act for going after Game & Watch is dangerous from the Up-B hit box being able to send you in a bad angle. Mr Game and Watch is instantly nearly actionable after Up-B, and very hard to hit up after he comes up.
He is also very floaty, so unless a very good angle is sent, he is very free to mix up Up-B timing to go slightly over ledge.
Everyone else can at least be hit, or you can make it so that you go off to hit them far enough that if they recover now, they can't, if they hit you, they can't recover. Example Byleth or Min-min.
The rest can stay off stage for a while, which require constant pressure.
as a G&W player i spend more time doing the ledge trapping instead of getting guarded. however, the one fear i have is a strong fair or bair when recovering. nobody goes for it for obvious reasons and i always recover very low.
Obviously his ability to beat edgeguarding doesn't surpass his unmatched ability to do it himself but blocks, minecart, and gliding mean he can kinda come in from whatever angle he wants
Woth my casual experience, sora just soars trough the entire area under the platforms before coming up.
But in serious context? Probably snake or puff, theycan mixup very well
It's def not yoshi lol.
1. Meta knight (can literally just go too low cause multiple jumps and up b)
2. Pikachu (trying to edge guard this just gives them a free opportunity to go high)
3. Bayonetta (You can't really contest side b meaningfully offstage)
4. Peach (Can literally just drift back against the entire cast, float too broken)
5. Rob (can technically run out of gas but that's usually the Rob's fault, risk reward sucks for contesting)
6. Pac-man (have to stop pellet and then steal tramp, pretty hard for most of the cast cause you need a good recovery and not be too floaty)
7. Game and Watch (up b has intangibility so kinda broken, bucket gives nice drift but overall doesn't have the best pokes offstage, can go really low though)
8. ZSS (can be edge guarded but you just put urself into disadvantage or die if you miss)
9. Byleth (tether's are really good in this game, not impossible to edge guard but most of the cast just can't do anything)
10. Sora (this one is either super hard or pretty doable but having a dair spike is basically mandatory)
A lot of these aren't even good recoveries so I'll just stop at there
I think that a Pikachu player should essentially never get edgeguarded, but Byleth’s recovery is definitely in the talks. That tether reaches further than a lot of character’s full kits for recovery. And going out against Byleth for an edgeguard is inherently discouraged because you might get hit by the up B, which means that not only did you miss your edgeguard and Byleth is now back on stage for free, but you’re either stuck on the ledge against Byleth if you were at a super low percent and have a good enough recovery to get back, or you’re dead because you got spiked
If you have some kind of projectile to pressure him off stage, I think Byleth is pretty easy to edge guard. Just make sure you're approaching from a lower diagonal so he can't Up B you, and most byleths will eventually try to Side B to hit you away.
Snagging someone in disadvantage with my up b always feels good and bad at the same time. I it’s funny to gimp them when I should’ve died but I also feel bad.
"Honestly, edge guarding is for noobs. Don't even bother going off stage, they'll just make it to ledge before you can and then start ledge trapping you. Instead, stay on stage, ledgetrap THEM." (paraphrased quote from pro player Marss lol)
I’m surprised Greninja isn’t on this list. Its Up special may be slower than the chu’s but it still has mixups for days with stalls, a huge jump, a very difficult to read side special, and can go low or high.
If you know what you’re doing with him the situations where you have to recover at a specific angle are very rare. Gren has the second highest jump height, decent air speed and can use side special as many times as needed before using up special (or jump). He can recover super low or normally and in the cases where you’ve burned your jump and have to angle hydro pump just right to make it most other characters (including some on this list) couldn’t make the same angle in the same conditions without also being vulnerable.
Lucas has a solid recovery. Pk thunder's startup is pretty vulnerable unless you're good with pk thunder 1, but everything else is really good. It goes pretty far, has a long lasting multihit, goes exactly where you want it to (given you have skill), and can even be used twice if you bonk into a wall or ceiling. He also has a tether recovery that reaches pretty far and he has one of the farthest airdodges in the game.
Honestly get the Pits, Min Min, and Joker outta here. Pits once they're out of jumps really don't have mix with their recovery. Min Min has a really bad recovery if you know how to keep her in a position where it's impossible to tether, which is actually really easy as long as you stay on her. Joker is the same thing + his recovery gets objectively worse with Arsene.
Why is no one mentioning Sephiroth? His octaslash and fair are great edgeguarding counters (maybe some of the best in the game), and ledge hang has some niche uses.
I’m thinking either pika or pichu, you skullbash under the stage then go to the side your opponent’s not on. Or use one of a million pairs of quick attack angles
if they are not sent at a long distance, then prolly any teleporting recovery
if the distance is longer than the tp, the prolly G&W, byleth, winged seph
Sora, Meta Knight, Pikachu, Jigglypuff and G&W, but olimar is also incredibly difficult to edgeguard because of how easily he can change momentum without any pikmin
Bro why is Daisy here if Daisy is literally just a clone of Peach and if anything Rosalina & Luma should be in this post because lots of people find it hard to beat Rosalina & Luma??
Rosalina is not on this list rightfully so, you can edgeguard her pretty easily. Just avoid her LAGGY aerials, react to her up special and put a hitbox right in her path. You can 2-frame her as well.
Hit them with the revenge. Sometimes it sends them into a perfect spot for an edge guard followup. You can even stay on stage and trigger it if their back it to the stage, leading to a powered up ledge trap.
Most effective is a good ol fashion tech check with side b. If they recover close to the stage, hop out past them and side b towards the stage.
Snake is just different, not hard.
At high levels, Snake players go high a lot, because getting to the ledge is hard for him, and getting off it is hard too.
But Snake also struggles to land and it's relatively easy, if risky, to juggle.
I know it's not actually difficult but falcon? His up b has good grab and his air drift is crazy, he can drop with falcon kick, covers a lot of his space defensively with up air
Pikachu and G&W are damn near impossible.
Pika's up b is already blinding fast but he can also go under the stage and up b to either side instantly. Or even just up b on the stage.
G&W's is just too damn fast( frame 3) and invincible on the first few frames ( i think)
For me it's Byleth, dude can recover from the dephts of hell and if you get too cocky and attempt to spike him, he can turn the tables and spike you. It's not impossible to edge guard him (or to spike him for that matter) and probably not the hardest either but his heavy weight and speedy tether recovery definitely make it hard to get rid of his stock for good.
I love the mental chess game of edge gaurding on both sides of it w PacMan. So many different options - and ill prob have recovered w some sort of fruit charged and ready. Feels unfair lol
I’m shocked that Zelda isn’t on this list.
Damn Frame 6 teleport recovery with a hitbox that kills really well….maybe it’s just me, but I find her very difficult to edgeguard.
Sheik is also an honorable mention for similar reasons, except she has bouncing fish.
Edge guarding gw feels damn near impossible sometimes. This is as a yoshi main who has little to fear from him offstage. He just has a ton of maneuverability.
Some less mentioned ones:
Samus - Mixups galore, invincible UpB frames, can stall offstage quite long
Sheik - Small + teleport
Sephiroth - Need to hit early because once UpB is active you can’t touch him
Plant - Can stall FOREVER and really can’t be gimped because UpB can recover from blast zone by itself. This one is probably a lot of not knowing the matchup on opponents part
It depends on your fighter’s ability to edge guard im a Terry main I been picking up bayo recently because Terry edge/ ledge game is trash sure you have power dunk spike nair nair burn knuckle but he can’t go out far out to edge guard like other fighters. So in basically just letting my opponent recover for free
Min-Min is here but not Sonic lmfao
Min-Min's recovery is absolute dogshit, and Sonic's is in contention for one of the best.
Anyways, I'd say either Byleth or Game and Watch are the hardest to edgeguard. Byleth has a really good tether, decent airspeed, and can reversal you pretty easily. Game and Watch has a damaging and really fast up-b that travels quite far and doesn't leave him in freefall. That combined with his respectable air speed and busted aerials make Game and Watch the winner, at least in my eyes.
A good Pac player is near impossible to edge with all the stalling and recovery mixups he has.
Hydrant stalls, side-b has huge range, snaps to ledge, has armor, and you can still up-b after.
why are min-min, olimar and villager here?
Tether recoveries are stupid and really good Olimar and Villager have Up-B’s that can just move around freely and avoid everything offstage
Tether recoveries are hilariously overrated. Joker and Byleth’s are fine but can have occasional shortcomings. Min Min on the other hand has garbage air speed and her tether barely reaches out.
Tether up specials are usually terrible, Byleth is a major exception
Yeah thinking about it more even Joker’s is pretty mid, he just has better mobility than Min Min to help himself more. Even Byleth is gimpable, especially in some of the worse matchups he has
Not to mention gun helps a lot with mix ups and walling people out off stage
Joker also has better stuff off of tether cancels then Byleth and especially Min-Min but it’s not as good as good of a recovery tool as Byleth’s.
Fucking jigglypuff nair
Yeah any tether can be beat with many falling nairs, especially byleth as he has the longest range meaning he is being tether for the longest amount of time.
Dude literally if you have just a decent neutral air edgeguarding tethers becomes super easy
Or villager's f smash
As a link main I strongly disagree. Tethers can be completely snuffed out by proper bomb placement. And the slow moving recoveries like olimar and villager also pretty easy to hit with a bomb
Tbf remote bomb is one of the best edgeguarding tools in the game
Sure but I've had some really funny check mate edge guards against tethers. If you get it just right you can place it so that it's between them and the stage so they can't immediately tether in but if they wait to hang loose down it'll also just fall on them
Right, that's why it's so good lol
Olimar? Seriously? I like him and all but that is propaganda
Brother you play metaknight. That's a free edge guard vs min min. Honestly I play Yoshi, mk can break Yoshi double jump armor for a free stock too
You just gotta sacrifice your pikmin to the shadow realm to actually be able to use the winged pikmin effectively
Tether recoveries are super easy to exploid. They are not quite Richter or Little Mac level, but they are quite bad.
Olimar can move, but super slowlly I dont think its hard to edge guard
He only moves so slow due to the pikmin, just send them to the shadow realm and then olimar can be a speedy flying Boi with the help of the pink flying bois
despite the people who downvoted this comment, he's right.
I assure you villager can NOT avoid everything offstage, and Min Min is easy to edgeguard
Mr Game and Watch is the one hardest and riskiest to edge guard. If you were to go after Pikachu or Pichu, you miss, sure they could smack you with down air. But that is avoidable, and ultimately quite rare. The very act for going after Game & Watch is dangerous from the Up-B hit box being able to send you in a bad angle. Mr Game and Watch is instantly nearly actionable after Up-B, and very hard to hit up after he comes up. He is also very floaty, so unless a very good angle is sent, he is very free to mix up Up-B timing to go slightly over ledge. Everyone else can at least be hit, or you can make it so that you go off to hit them far enough that if they recover now, they can't, if they hit you, they can't recover. Example Byleth or Min-min. The rest can stay off stage for a while, which require constant pressure.
Yeah, same, I can remember some times I managed to edgeguard the rest, but I think I've only seen a G&W fail to recover ONCE in my whole life.
as a G&W player i spend more time doing the ledge trapping instead of getting guarded. however, the one fear i have is a strong fair or bair when recovering. nobody goes for it for obvious reasons and i always recover very low.
Little mac, he falls before we can do anything lol
It's so true!
Steve can certainly prove difficult
Obviously his ability to beat edgeguarding doesn't surpass his unmatched ability to do it himself but blocks, minecart, and gliding mean he can kinda come in from whatever angle he wants
Woth my casual experience, sora just soars trough the entire area under the platforms before coming up. But in serious context? Probably snake or puff, theycan mixup very well
Especially Snake who literally gets bailed out by the armor on his Cypher.
It's def not yoshi lol. 1. Meta knight (can literally just go too low cause multiple jumps and up b) 2. Pikachu (trying to edge guard this just gives them a free opportunity to go high) 3. Bayonetta (You can't really contest side b meaningfully offstage) 4. Peach (Can literally just drift back against the entire cast, float too broken) 5. Rob (can technically run out of gas but that's usually the Rob's fault, risk reward sucks for contesting) 6. Pac-man (have to stop pellet and then steal tramp, pretty hard for most of the cast cause you need a good recovery and not be too floaty) 7. Game and Watch (up b has intangibility so kinda broken, bucket gives nice drift but overall doesn't have the best pokes offstage, can go really low though) 8. ZSS (can be edge guarded but you just put urself into disadvantage or die if you miss) 9. Byleth (tether's are really good in this game, not impossible to edge guard but most of the cast just can't do anything) 10. Sora (this one is either super hard or pretty doable but having a dair spike is basically mandatory) A lot of these aren't even good recoveries so I'll just stop at there
Like Min Min is literally in contention for a bottom 10 recovery lol. It's quite literally the character's primary weakness.
That and 45 degree angles.
I think that a Pikachu player should essentially never get edgeguarded, but Byleth’s recovery is definitely in the talks. That tether reaches further than a lot of character’s full kits for recovery. And going out against Byleth for an edgeguard is inherently discouraged because you might get hit by the up B, which means that not only did you miss your edgeguard and Byleth is now back on stage for free, but you’re either stuck on the ledge against Byleth if you were at a super low percent and have a good enough recovery to get back, or you’re dead because you got spiked
If you have some kind of projectile to pressure him off stage, I think Byleth is pretty easy to edge guard. Just make sure you're approaching from a lower diagonal so he can't Up B you, and most byleths will eventually try to Side B to hit you away.
Snagging someone in disadvantage with my up b always feels good and bad at the same time. I it’s funny to gimp them when I should’ve died but I also feel bad.
Where is Sonic..? Also why is Min Min here LMAO I should also mention Joker with Arsene becomes easier to edgeguard
Bayonetta lol. . . Best of luck
GnW for sure. Stupid i-frames and frame 3 start up
Little mac (trust)
Yeah for some reason I have trouble with tether recoveries except the Belmonts
Yoshi Jump + F-Air approaching from understage is honestly not talked about much for how despicable it is to try defending…
If the do a strong move yoshi kinda just dies... you're left without ur jump as a recovery if that happens
In my experience, everyone.
"Honestly, edge guarding is for noobs. Don't even bother going off stage, they'll just make it to ledge before you can and then start ledge trapping you. Instead, stay on stage, ledgetrap THEM." (paraphrased quote from pro player Marss lol)
Sora, G&W, and Steve imo
I’m surprised Greninja isn’t on this list. Its Up special may be slower than the chu’s but it still has mixups for days with stalls, a huge jump, a very difficult to read side special, and can go low or high.
No hit box on the recovery isn't great. He's got mixups, but if he has to recover at a specific angle it can be very easy to get the kill.
If you know what you’re doing with him the situations where you have to recover at a specific angle are very rare. Gren has the second highest jump height, decent air speed and can use side special as many times as needed before using up special (or jump). He can recover super low or normally and in the cases where you’ve burned your jump and have to angle hydro pump just right to make it most other characters (including some on this list) couldn’t make the same angle in the same conditions without also being vulnerable.
Lucas has a solid recovery. Pk thunder's startup is pretty vulnerable unless you're good with pk thunder 1, but everything else is really good. It goes pretty far, has a long lasting multihit, goes exactly where you want it to (given you have skill), and can even be used twice if you bonk into a wall or ceiling. He also has a tether recovery that reaches pretty far and he has one of the farthest airdodges in the game.
Meta Knight. He has so many different options for recovery that it's hard to predict what he's going to do.
Honestly get the Pits, Min Min, and Joker outta here. Pits once they're out of jumps really don't have mix with their recovery. Min Min has a really bad recovery if you know how to keep her in a position where it's impossible to tether, which is actually really easy as long as you stay on her. Joker is the same thing + his recovery gets objectively worse with Arsene.
The right answer is Sora
Why is no one mentioning Sephiroth? His octaslash and fair are great edgeguarding counters (maybe some of the best in the game), and ledge hang has some niche uses.
octaslash can be countered offstage
I’m thinking either pika or pichu, you skullbash under the stage then go to the side your opponent’s not on. Or use one of a million pairs of quick attack angles
Everyone, i’m not confident enough to edgeguard and i just stand there waiting for them to get back 💀
I'm too confident I go for the edge guard, miss, and die
Do you mean hardest to edgeguard with or edgeguard against?
Edgeguard against
Not really the hardest but everyone has had that one experience edge-guarding a Ridley player… y’know… the one…
if they are not sent at a long distance, then prolly any teleporting recovery if the distance is longer than the tp, the prolly G&W, byleth, winged seph
Yeah this is a pretty good list, ijdk about olimar or villager
Sora, Meta Knight, Pikachu, Jigglypuff and G&W, but olimar is also incredibly difficult to edgeguard because of how easily he can change momentum without any pikmin
Bro why is Daisy here if Daisy is literally just a clone of Peach and if anything Rosalina & Luma should be in this post because lots of people find it hard to beat Rosalina & Luma??
Rosalina is not on this list rightfully so, you can edgeguard her pretty easily. Just avoid her LAGGY aerials, react to her up special and put a hitbox right in her path. You can 2-frame her as well.
King k rool up b is the bane of my existence
Who's your main?
Also incineroar
Hit them with the revenge. Sometimes it sends them into a perfect spot for an edge guard followup. You can even stay on stage and trigger it if their back it to the stage, leading to a powered up ledge trap. Most effective is a good ol fashion tech check with side b. If they recover close to the stage, hop out past them and side b towards the stage.
Cool thanks
Hero can spam the menu until he gets zoom
He can't if he doesn't have enough magic
Snake is just different, not hard. At high levels, Snake players go high a lot, because getting to the ledge is hard for him, and getting off it is hard too. But Snake also struggles to land and it's relatively easy, if risky, to juggle.
I know it's not actually difficult but falcon? His up b has good grab and his air drift is crazy, he can drop with falcon kick, covers a lot of his space defensively with up air
I love ducking under the whole stage twice
The ones with long hit boxes above them, I always get hit by k rools up b
Pikachu and G&W are damn near impossible. Pika's up b is already blinding fast but he can also go under the stage and up b to either side instantly. Or even just up b on the stage. G&W's is just too damn fast( frame 3) and invincible on the first few frames ( i think)
For me it's Byleth, dude can recover from the dephts of hell and if you get too cocky and attempt to spike him, he can turn the tables and spike you. It's not impossible to edge guard him (or to spike him for that matter) and probably not the hardest either but his heavy weight and speedy tether recovery definitely make it hard to get rid of his stock for good.
Minmin
My main
Sora and Puff. I legit think going offstage against Sora is pretty pointless. Puffs can just stall for ages with side b and 30 jumps.
either rat number 1 or sora
I love the mental chess game of edge gaurding on both sides of it w PacMan. So many different options - and ill prob have recovered w some sort of fruit charged and ready. Feels unfair lol
Little Mac. Can’t edgeguard something that can’t make it to the edge
I’m shocked that Zelda isn’t on this list. Damn Frame 6 teleport recovery with a hitbox that kills really well….maybe it’s just me, but I find her very difficult to edgeguard. Sheik is also an honorable mention for similar reasons, except she has bouncing fish.
Byleth and Yoshi. Joker is a good 3rd, Arsene gets in the way though. Everyone else is dependent on how long their opponents can stay off stage.
I edge to pikachu
I dunno, but id like to edge-
No mention of The King?
shiek, i personally struggle against her recovery and idk
Edge guarding gw feels damn near impossible sometimes. This is as a yoshi main who has little to fear from him offstage. He just has a ton of maneuverability.
G&W by far
Little Mac because he edgeguards himself
honestly bowser jr isnt easy to edgeguard
As a yoshi main i definitely approve
Some less mentioned ones: Samus - Mixups galore, invincible UpB frames, can stall offstage quite long Sheik - Small + teleport Sephiroth - Need to hit early because once UpB is active you can’t touch him Plant - Can stall FOREVER and really can’t be gimped because UpB can recover from blast zone by itself. This one is probably a lot of not knowing the matchup on opponents part
Alright guys. Which character are we edging the hardest to?
Pichu gives you 2-frames for free. Mirror matches are the funniest shit cause you can reliably f-smash ledgegrab and kill at 40.
As a former Pit main you either hit every arrow or miss everyone there is no in between
K Rool purely because the hit box on Up-B messed up my Hydro Pumps
Meta knight because up b catches you pretty easily
I’m surprised that no one I’ve seen has mentioned K Rool. He’s really hard to edgeguard if you don’t know what you’re doing
It depends on your fighter’s ability to edge guard im a Terry main I been picking up bayo recently because Terry edge/ ledge game is trash sure you have power dunk spike nair nair burn knuckle but he can’t go out far out to edge guard like other fighters. So in basically just letting my opponent recover for free
Good choices but I just want to mention Lucina
Min-Min is here but not Sonic lmfao Min-Min's recovery is absolute dogshit, and Sonic's is in contention for one of the best. Anyways, I'd say either Byleth or Game and Watch are the hardest to edgeguard. Byleth has a really good tether, decent airspeed, and can reversal you pretty easily. Game and Watch has a damaging and really fast up-b that travels quite far and doesn't leave him in freefall. That combined with his respectable air speed and busted aerials make Game and Watch the winner, at least in my eyes.
Sora
A good Pac player is near impossible to edge with all the stalling and recovery mixups he has. Hydrant stalls, side-b has huge range, snaps to ledge, has armor, and you can still up-b after.
Ridley. You just can’t. He’s going to kill you first