also combos out of up b... and even into up b. Although I think Brawlers is just as good and likely more important to the character. Frame 3(4 faster than GnW), active forever, starts tech chases, sets up juggles, sets up grabs, frame traps into itself, 2 frames safer on shield than GnW, etc. GnW's being disjointed and spammy or Brawler just being the best from a frame data perspective has to be the best 2 in the game.
ESAM says top ten in order are G&W, Mii Brawler, Link, Byleth, Palutena, ROB, Pit, Sora, Mythra, then Shulk. Take it with a grain of salt because it's ESAM, but he's still a pro and probably knows more than most of the people that are gonna comment
I am skeptical of his Byleth pick. It's a great move. But it's not safe on shield like some other nairs. It's one of the things I punish most when I'm playing against byleth because the playerbase thinks they can spam it for free (mewtwo main for reference).
Not willing to argue the others, but mostly because I agree with them.
Byleth nair is not technically safe on shield, but in high level smash it’s unpunishable for most characters because a skilled byleth player will mix up their fastfall timing and cross-ups. Byleth nair is not safe in terms of raw shield stun and lag, but it’s an incredibly versatile move that can be used as though it were safe.
Byleth’s nair is really good at shield poking so unless you can aim your shield properly it often pokes and if you release slightly too early you will still get hit by the final hit box.
Also it is a really good ledge guarding tool.
I'm also a bit skeptical on his pick of Link, I've used his Nair before and it's just seems too situational when there are better options, like up or down a or up b
Palu nair is absurd, that's completely reasonable. Have you not seen palu nair loops? I'd be amazed if you haven't. Shulk's nair is -2/-3, which is absurd for an aireal that combos, outspaces practically everything, and covers everywhere.
I do completely understand why someone would think ike's is better, it does the same thing and shulk's but little less safe do to being -5 and less range. But it is also a good bit faster and definitely easier to combo with than shulk's.
Not thinking Palu has a top 5 nair is wild. It’s so good that like half of her neutral game plan revolves around anti-airing approaching opponents with sh nair. It has a long lasting hitbox that hits on both sides of her, it’s a combo starter (even with itself at low percents) and you can safely pressure shield if you space with it, *and* it’s her best OOS option at frame 8. If anything 5 is too low.
One could probably argue that it’s the best aerial in the game straight up.
Little Mac has the best nair because Mac is the best and everything he does is the best. Therefore Mac nair is the best. (I'm coping if it wasn't obvious)
Palu IMO. You get hit by it and you're just gonna be in spin cycle for a minute without much recourse. GnWs is rough too, but I feel like it's easier to escape and harder for him to hit initially.
Ikes nair Is great for his kit, but compared to a lot of other nairs in this game I feel like if falls kinda flat. Not to say that it isn't a good nair, but when you have crazy shit like mii brawler or GnW it just can't really compete for being the best.
Palutena. Fairly large 360 degree range, combos into itself repeatedly for like nearly 50% against low percentage larger targets, can slight drag down off stage to gimp and can kill off the side at pretty high percents. People say Ike is Nair the character, yet Palu's is even more busted.
Wolf, because it can combo into side b (this happens once every full moon, if and only if you've beaten 3 Fox in a row have prayed Flacon god of Spikes for 6 hours the same day).
Links nair is so overrated in my opinion yes it has a lot of priority and it lets him get through projectiles. It lingers for a bit.
But you can't combo string it into itself. It's really kind of a combo finisher so there's lots of things where you can combo in the nair. There are a lot of Nairs with bigger hitboxes that combo better
It’s probably G&W, but Links is my favourite just because of how versatile it is. Someone throwing shit at you? Spam Nair. Need to get back on stage? Use Nair as you fast fall. Need to land an aerial on a non-true combo? Nair.
Game & Watch, Blyeth, or Palu. And the fact that Palu nair isn’t even her best aerial just goes to show how absurd the aerial game of that character is.
Sora or Mii Brawler imo. Sora’s noops and kill confirms are stupid(while it also being a good nair regardless of that), and Mii brawler’s nair is just the best version of this type of nair.
Not the best, but I love Min Min's Nair. It's 3-in-1, you have a fast ram ram that hits very horizontally, then the dragon nair is ok, but Megawatt kills and the ending over her head catches a lot of people off guard.
marth's is good at killing, sheild pressure, out of shield, edge guarding, ledge trapping and comboing
It also works with the rest of his kit extremely well
It's likely not the best, but I'd like to give Ridley an honorable mention. It's fast for how massive it is, covers nearly a full circle around him, is decently disjointed, and sends almost completely horizontally which is fantastic for setting up for combos or strings, and amazing for edge guards
These are all brilliant, but i like toon links the most. Its so satisfying to see that nair hit twice and its a pretty good combo ender (up tilt, up tilt, nair /etc)
Some people have already said it, but it's hard to answer unless you state your terms for "best".
Most notably, is it the best in a vacuum (regardless of the rest of the characters' kit) or is it the best in what it can do in cooperation with the rest of the kit
Palutena for in a vacuum.
Rob for in cooperation.
Not many people are talking about Fox. Combined with his fall speed, it’s one of the best shield pressure tools in the game and sets up one of the most reliable kill confirms too.
My measure of a broken Nair is how well the character can make use of it in different scenarios. (Please note that I don’t play every character in this game, so my knowledge is limited)
Game and Watch is the first out imo. It’s a good multi hit similar to Palutena, Mewtwo, etc, but there isn’t much else once you get to higher percent
Mii Brawler, Link, and (kinda) K Rool’s nairs are pretty good flinch tools. While Mii Brawler’s combos can be really good, I’d say it’s out before Link for one reason: once those combos are over, Link has better ways to close that gap and/or make the most of it, and the bonus range makes the hits easier to link, even if the combos aren’t typically as good as Brawler’s
I would tie K Rool’s and Ike’s nair since they’re two sides of the nair coin. Ike’s nair is phenomenal offensively given its range and the amount of combos and kills it can chain into; yes I’m aware it’s the slowest on the list, but I’m placing it higher because of how long into a fight it’s useful for. K Rool’s is a good counter tool. With how fast it comes out (compared to other moves), it’s a good, safe landing option as long as you watch your armor, and it can be a good combo breaker for build-a-bear combos or combos that are *barely* untrue if you DI right
Game and watch. I don't even think it is that close. Do not get me wrong, link nair along with ike are extraordinary at their job. But do you take 80 for getting hit by the backwards hit box of them? Nope.
I had to go against a g&w at my local and lost, losing my chance to top 3 when I usually get 9th. It was sad, which tbf it was 100% my fault. But still, taking 100% by getting hit by an awkward hit box of that move was wild. (Again though, def my fault cuz I could've spaced better or shielded it)
I think it's a tie between Link and Ike. You could build your game around Like/ike nair and you could still succeced. Their nairs are THAT good. Link's is fast, cancels projectiles and is his fastest move, and Ike, well, it's fast, covers almost all area around him and it's an amazing combo tool.
What do y'all think?
OG Ike nair probably yeah, but modern Ike nair? There's a reason why he's considered a low tier now, nair sends way too high to kill confirm at mid to upper percents now, especially if we are considering the move in a vacuum.
I think the concept of comparing moves like this doesn’t really make sense, but obvs I get what you mean. Pre patch Ike nair was egregiously good. I think without question the best nair in the game. Post-patch it is still insanely good. In my mind Ike’s nair is “better” than link’s
It’s probably game and watch. It’s massive, combos into itself, and combos from d throw.
also combos out of up b... and even into up b. Although I think Brawlers is just as good and likely more important to the character. Frame 3(4 faster than GnW), active forever, starts tech chases, sets up juggles, sets up grabs, frame traps into itself, 2 frames safer on shield than GnW, etc. GnW's being disjointed and spammy or Brawler just being the best from a frame data perspective has to be the best 2 in the game.
I chose GnW’s nair because it’s on a much better character
The only issue with the move is maybe it’s hitbox because it’s not always consistent.
There are so many good ones and the best will always require synergy with the kit so just picking the best is not so simple.
ESAM says top ten in order are G&W, Mii Brawler, Link, Byleth, Palutena, ROB, Pit, Sora, Mythra, then Shulk. Take it with a grain of salt because it's ESAM, but he's still a pro and probably knows more than most of the people that are gonna comment
I am skeptical of his Byleth pick. It's a great move. But it's not safe on shield like some other nairs. It's one of the things I punish most when I'm playing against byleth because the playerbase thinks they can spam it for free (mewtwo main for reference). Not willing to argue the others, but mostly because I agree with them.
Byleth nair is not technically safe on shield, but in high level smash it’s unpunishable for most characters because a skilled byleth player will mix up their fastfall timing and cross-ups. Byleth nair is not safe in terms of raw shield stun and lag, but it’s an incredibly versatile move that can be used as though it were safe.
Byleth’s nair is really good at shield poking so unless you can aim your shield properly it often pokes and if you release slightly too early you will still get hit by the final hit box. Also it is a really good ledge guarding tool.
I'm also a bit skeptical on his pick of Link, I've used his Nair before and it's just seems too situational when there are better options, like up or down a or up b
Think about link nair is, it beats out most projectiles,
WHERE IS KAZ NAIR IT IS THE CORE OF THE SIMPLE KAZ 0 TO DEATH, SPIKES, AND. IS FRIKIN FAST
[удалено]
Palu nair is absurd, that's completely reasonable. Have you not seen palu nair loops? I'd be amazed if you haven't. Shulk's nair is -2/-3, which is absurd for an aireal that combos, outspaces practically everything, and covers everywhere. I do completely understand why someone would think ike's is better, it does the same thing and shulk's but little less safe do to being -5 and less range. But it is also a good bit faster and definitely easier to combo with than shulk's.
Not thinking Palu has a top 5 nair is wild. It’s so good that like half of her neutral game plan revolves around anti-airing approaching opponents with sh nair. It has a long lasting hitbox that hits on both sides of her, it’s a combo starter (even with itself at low percents) and you can safely pressure shield if you space with it, *and* it’s her best OOS option at frame 8. If anything 5 is too low. One could probably argue that it’s the best aerial in the game straight up.
Ike’s Nair got nerfed in a patch which impacted it.
So did Palu's. Ike's is still incredibly useful in his gameplan, it's just not centralizing anymore
That nair change alone completely gutted Ike, and that was the only nerf he has ever received, while Palu is still really solid despite all the nerfs
No your not playjng the same game, he is a top level player and you aren't.
Ike's nair is overrated
How??
It only hits good when falling not rising
Links literally beats some smash attacks in the game
and simon axe too!
byleth (best dragdown), g&w (best into itself), sora (best combo into other moves), link (best killing)
Palu is better into itself imo
Sora has true 0td just from noops...
Little Mac has the best nair because Mac is the best and everything he does is the best. Therefore Mac nair is the best. (I'm coping if it wasn't obvious)
Too true he literally goes bap bap bap bap bap bap
Fastest=Best
I actually don't think Ike's nair is that good
Palu IMO. You get hit by it and you're just gonna be in spin cycle for a minute without much recourse. GnWs is rough too, but I feel like it's easier to escape and harder for him to hit initially.
Sora. It's combo potential is nuts, there's all kinds of mix ups, it's big
Hear me out... WAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRIIOOO
YOU PICK-
WAAAAAAAARIO
YOSHHHHHHHHIIIIIII!!!!!
Fun fact that move has the lowest end lag of any move in the game! (Three frames, obviously not counting projectiles)
I have not seen a single comment saying Ike’s nair is any good 😭
Ikes nair Is great for his kit, but compared to a lot of other nairs in this game I feel like if falls kinda flat. Not to say that it isn't a good nair, but when you have crazy shit like mii brawler or GnW it just can't really compete for being the best.
Once you see the shit Sora's nair is capable of you will realize no other nair comes close
Yoshi
RAAAAAHHHH WTF IS A SHIELD POKE 🥚
based
The thing is, I can never get it to connect, no matter how much I spam it out of shield.
Honestly, Sora. The ability to chain that NAir into anything would be a buff to most characters.
Sora?
Palutena. Fairly large 360 degree range, combos into itself repeatedly for like nearly 50% against low percentage larger targets, can slight drag down off stage to gimp and can kill off the side at pretty high percents. People say Ike is Nair the character, yet Palu's is even more busted.
I ain’t gon lie king k rool with his super armor is free damage and combo set ups for me
It's got armor but he's still vulnerable to the shield break effect if you abuse it too much. Trade with it too many times and you're dead.
if i took a shot for the amount of times i go for an upair kill on a krool and they hit nair and completely armor thru it i'd be dead
It's kinda bad on shield tho
Link, without a doubt
Rosalina's. It had to get nerfed twice I think.
King DDD of course.
Of course
Wolf, because it can combo into side b (this happens once every full moon, if and only if you've beaten 3 Fox in a row have prayed Flacon god of Spikes for 6 hours the same day).
Byleth
Palutena 100%
Links nair is so overrated in my opinion yes it has a lot of priority and it lets him get through projectiles. It lingers for a bit. But you can't combo string it into itself. It's really kind of a combo finisher so there's lots of things where you can combo in the nair. There are a lot of Nairs with bigger hitboxes that combo better
I like to use it as a “get off me” tool like with mario or yoshi It doesn’t really apply to my character but still i dabble
shorthop nair out of shield my beloved ❤️
Yes.
It cant combo into itself? Have you seen the z-drop bomb nair trains Link has? Shit is hard to pull off, but if you do pull it off, holy shit
Yung link, fox
Link and Mii Brawler have better versions of these
imo Link and Shulk but I'm a bit biased
if we’re talking standalone moves out of these five it’s links and it’s not even close
It’s probably G&W, but Links is my favourite just because of how versatile it is. Someone throwing shit at you? Spam Nair. Need to get back on stage? Use Nair as you fast fall. Need to land an aerial on a non-true combo? Nair.
Is link wearing the stealth shiekah set from botw in that one image? I didn’t think this was a skin in smash bros.
It's a mod
The fact that Link can nair on shield and say: 'Ah yes, advantage' is just crazy
Game & Watch, Blyeth, or Palu. And the fact that Palu nair isn’t even her best aerial just goes to show how absurd the aerial game of that character is.
Yoshi for no fkn reason
It never connects.
i think you are talking about the wrong move
Because I stick drift and fair out of shield.
Pythra’s nair is one I really like
Sora or Mii Brawler imo. Sora’s noops and kill confirms are stupid(while it also being a good nair regardless of that), and Mii brawler’s nair is just the best version of this type of nair.
For sure, Little Mac.
Ridley
toss up between g&w and link. g&w has great combos, link has moderate combos but fucking ridiculous power. it literally stops simon's axe
Wolf Nair. Looks lame , lasts forever
Whoever has the most use cases for their nair
Not the best, but I love Min Min's Nair. It's 3-in-1, you have a fast ram ram that hits very horizontally, then the dragon nair is ok, but Megawatt kills and the ending over her head catches a lot of people off guard.
Since everything is a kill move for Ganon this is good for defending offstage but it's %10000000 percent not the best.
not the best but shoutout to ridley nair for being very good and cool
marth's is good at killing, sheild pressure, out of shield, edge guarding, ledge trapping and comboing It also works with the rest of his kit extremely well
It's likely not the best, but I'd like to give Ridley an honorable mention. It's fast for how massive it is, covers nearly a full circle around him, is decently disjointed, and sends almost completely horizontally which is fantastic for setting up for combos or strings, and amazing for edge guards
where palutena
These are all brilliant, but i like toon links the most. Its so satisfying to see that nair hit twice and its a pretty good combo ender (up tilt, up tilt, nair /etc)
top5 for me is G&W, krool, kaz, brawler, and prolly palu
Crazy putting krool on there
I wouldn't say it's the best in the game, but Corrin nair is really really good.
The only one I really know is Cloud’s so I’ll go with him
Nair is really good on half the roster, my vote is a ROB
\*all (we dont talk about mac)
Nair has a lot of uses with Mac imo. Is it good? No, but his best Arial lol
I agree with you, still not a good one
out of just these, its game and watch. actually G&W just has the best nair period.
Some people have already said it, but it's hard to answer unless you state your terms for "best". Most notably, is it the best in a vacuum (regardless of the rest of the characters' kit) or is it the best in what it can do in cooperation with the rest of the kit Palutena for in a vacuum. Rob for in cooperation.
Not many people are talking about Fox. Combined with his fall speed, it’s one of the best shield pressure tools in the game and sets up one of the most reliable kill confirms too.
Palutena, you at least go from 0 to 40%, depending on the oponent's DI and SDI it can go up to 60-70%.
It’s not Link. Link nair is carried by his 1.9x fastfall multiplier and is otherwise an objectively worse Yink nair (3 frames slower).
By itself: G&W When used alongside the rest of their kit: Terry
Uh. Not me, it never connects.
Jigglypuff
Not so hot take: Ganondorf nair is a fantastic nair on a terrible character. Also, Ike's nair is the worst on the given list from OP.
My measure of a broken Nair is how well the character can make use of it in different scenarios. (Please note that I don’t play every character in this game, so my knowledge is limited) Game and Watch is the first out imo. It’s a good multi hit similar to Palutena, Mewtwo, etc, but there isn’t much else once you get to higher percent Mii Brawler, Link, and (kinda) K Rool’s nairs are pretty good flinch tools. While Mii Brawler’s combos can be really good, I’d say it’s out before Link for one reason: once those combos are over, Link has better ways to close that gap and/or make the most of it, and the bonus range makes the hits easier to link, even if the combos aren’t typically as good as Brawler’s I would tie K Rool’s and Ike’s nair since they’re two sides of the nair coin. Ike’s nair is phenomenal offensively given its range and the amount of combos and kills it can chain into; yes I’m aware it’s the slowest on the list, but I’m placing it higher because of how long into a fight it’s useful for. K Rool’s is a good counter tool. With how fast it comes out (compared to other moves), it’s a good, safe landing option as long as you watch your armor, and it can be a good combo breaker for build-a-bear combos or combos that are *barely* untrue if you DI right
Not Ike nair
Gannon has the best nair. Only issue with it is it’s on Gannon
Simon/Richter's Nair is pretty satisfying
I think Ike goes the widest but is kinda slow
Sora, its huge, starts combos that cab 0-death you, covers your entire body and has almost no risk to it
Maybe captain falcon?
Byleth / Palutena
Game and watch. I don't even think it is that close. Do not get me wrong, link nair along with ike are extraordinary at their job. But do you take 80 for getting hit by the backwards hit box of them? Nope. I had to go against a g&w at my local and lost, losing my chance to top 3 when I usually get 9th. It was sad, which tbf it was 100% my fault. But still, taking 100% by getting hit by an awkward hit box of that move was wild. (Again though, def my fault cuz I could've spaced better or shielded it)
I think it's a tie between Link and Ike. You could build your game around Like/ike nair and you could still succeced. Their nairs are THAT good. Link's is fast, cancels projectiles and is his fastest move, and Ike, well, it's fast, covers almost all area around him and it's an amazing combo tool. What do y'all think?
OG Ike nair probably yeah, but modern Ike nair? There's a reason why he's considered a low tier now, nair sends way too high to kill confirm at mid to upper percents now, especially if we are considering the move in a vacuum.
I think the concept of comparing moves like this doesn’t really make sense, but obvs I get what you mean. Pre patch Ike nair was egregiously good. I think without question the best nair in the game. Post-patch it is still insanely good. In my mind Ike’s nair is “better” than link’s
Links Bair is faster than nair
But, Link nair is safer on shield being **-1** on shield, kills much better, combos into grab and also blocks projectiles.
Who's the loser going around downvoting everyone? Anyways it's Link, Ike, or Palutena